Who Stays and Who Goes by March 15th and beyond?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 21, 2012 4:54 PM EST
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After watching the last two games of that West Coast swing, there are clearly a lot of decisions that need to be made about this team going forward. I mean could we really see this team remaining stagnant during this trade deadline? I'm sure there are a lot of options out there and with this team having a couple of expiring or near expiring contracts, wouldn't it make more sense to take the chance in trading to get players as opposed to gambling during free agency? I have a few ideas of some players that should be considered to move, but the question is, who would be interested and what could we get in return?
Yes, I believe it is time to severe ties with Nick. He clearly is looking for a big pay day and about at $9 million, it doesn't seem like he is worth it. So far this season he hasn't been as effective as he was next year. This team may have to live with the fact, that last year's performance maybe the ceiling for Nick. Is that worth it? Not for a rebuilding team, so with that said, I think they should consider trading him to a contender. The reason for this is because he may actually be enticed to give up his Bird Rights for a chance to play with a contender, but if you try to trade to another scrub team, it won't happen. GO
He has looked like shell of his former self. His legs look shot and he does nothing for this team. With only part of his contract guaranteed next year, he would be an attractive piece for a team looking to shed salary. Can you imagine a team that has close $22 mil in salary that they would like to dump? Who would that team be? Is it possible to get a good deal out this and not just some over the hill aging players. I have no problem with getting some quality veterans as long as they still have some fight left in them. I think adding some older players could seriously help John Wall's development and sharpen this team's IQ. GO
I think the general consensus on this site is that this guy doesn't have a chance to ever live up to his potential. So what can you do with him? Do we really think he is going attract a decent trade offer, beside Tyrus Thomas? Let's be realistic, there isn't much of a market for him. The best decision to do would be to keep him, let him come off the bench behind Booker for the rest of the season and then amnesty his contract. Let's put like this, who else would you amnesty? At least with Lewis, his contract is what will attract buyers, but Blatche, what would possess someone to get this guy? And even after that is done, who else would be left to amnesty? Might as well use it. STAY, for now.
I know there are some advocating trading him, but I'm not quite ready to give up on him. He has definitely played better recently. I think you have to keep him and give him a reasonable extension during the off season (no more than $14 mil/year). The reason why is because you do not want him to have a great year next year and for his value to sky rocket. Big men with his ability don't come often. Someone will be more willing to break the bank if he's unrestricted than restricted. This summer is the chance for the Wizards to get him at a lower price and possibly reap the benefits of having a developing young big to build around along with Wall. STAY.
Why did we get this guy again? It seem as though he has always been pretty close to Flip (played with him on 3 different teams), but since Flip is now gone, does he have much of a reason to stay? There are a few contending teams that I'm sure are looking for a veteran swingman that can play D and occasionally score. Trade him and get a second rounder, you never know, perhaps we can package that second rounder along with the New York one to get a second first rounder. Doesn't hurt to try. GO.
Roger Mason Jr.
Ditto here. This guy doesn't serve much of a purpose. I think it would be of the best interest of the team to release him, unless you can find a team desperate enough to trade for him. His roster spot could be used to either take on an extra man from another trade (perhaps multiple players in a Rashard Lewis trade) or perhaps test drive a few D-leaguers. GO.
Is there anyone else that you all see as possible movers? If this team is going to make some trades, what should we realistically look for in return, picks or players?
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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I spent a solid 1:45 on the trade machine again today
and just cant piece together any trades that other teams would agree to that pull any real value. I tried to use JVM and/or NY to a contender for a superfluous piece (couldn’t find any) or Lewis for a package of people for teams that might want to make a play at Dwight…got nothing I would want back (yet).
I think we may be stuck with letting everybody walk…
by Maroon and Black on Feb 21, 2012 5:46 PM EST reply actions
I don't want Grunfeld making any deals that have future implications beyond this year
His contract is expiring. Ted hasn’t extended it yet (thank God). Even if you put the blame for his pre-Ted failures (re-signing an already injured Gil, swinging for the fences in the mid first round or the trade of the #5 for Miller and Foye) all on Polin, you can’t be happy with what he did in the Leonsis era either.
We started this rebuild with the fire sale around this time in 2009. So far:
We need a SF badly despite drafting 2 of them in 2011
We need a PF badly despite drafting 2 of them in 2010 and extending another one for $35 million at $7,5 a yr.
We need a SG badly with Nick walking and Crawford being a ball dominant Chuckford who doesn’t compliment Wall at all.
We need a C if Javale if Ted doesn’t want to pay 5 yrs/$60mil, or if Javale just doesn’t want to be here (he could just reject any offer from us or any other team and take the QO route, like Nick did this yr, to be a free man next year)
So, after 2 years we have John Wall at PG and a bunch of maybe’s.
ERNIE NEEDS TO GO!
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 21, 2012 6:06 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Ernie completely lucked into John Wall with the #1 too.
great job so far dude, great freaking job.
(can you tell I am frustrated with him?)
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 21, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
When you break it down like that...
Ernie’s rebuild hasn’t moved anywhere but down. Has drafted all players who have yet to make any type of impact besides Wall. We basically have a college team out there because the 3 or 4 vets are on the bench most of time. We have 5+ forwards who can’t do anything on offense consistently(unless you count Blatche chucking shots). A Center that has no big man coach/mentor to teach him.2 SG’s ball stoppers who like to pass when they feel like it. A point guard who still manages to avg 7 or 8 assist on this embarrassment of a team and is the only person that has shown any type of progress. If Ernie is signed to an extention after this year i’m ditching the team until he’s gone.
*Cough*Cough*Cough*Cough*
I’m sorry. I’m still choking on offering JaVale the reasonable offer of ‘no more than $14M / yr’. Imo, he hasn’t earned more than DeAndre Jordan money, and there are those who would argue he’s not worth that.
And Dutch Hoopfan, I’m 100% fine if they don’t bring back Ernie, but I actually think he’s done a solid job over the past two drafts. Most of the guys you are complaining about were taken from the second half of the first round down into the second round. Would it be nice if one of those guys developed into a quality starter? Of course. But usually with picks like that, if you get guys who can contribute, which I think even you would agree that Booker, Singleton, Mack and Crawford can. As for Vesely and Seraphin, both are projects and were acknowledged as projects when they were picked. Seraphin was frequently compared to Ibaka. It took Ibaka into year 3 after he was drafted to contribute.
When you look at that ’10 draft, which guys taken after Seraphin have really stepped to the fore? Landry Fields is about it. Daimon James maybe starting to make a move. And then the guys who are currently on the Wizards, Booker and Crawford.
When Ted took over, they knew they were playing a longer game strategy.
by ts35 on Feb 24, 2012 5:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The problem isn't who he picked at their respective slots (except Vesely)
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 25, 2012 6:09 AM EST up reply actions
Two points for you
A) I think the only reason why you pay McGee that amount is because there may be other teams willing to pay him that amount. It is not unheard of. I mean if Amir Johnson can get $7 million and Greg Oden can get $8 million as a backup and a spectator respectively, then why can’t McGee possibly get an offer close to $14 million? I’m not saying he will, but if he does, to me it would be better to pay him that amount, versus giving him a qualifying offer, letting him become unrestricted, him having a big year next year, and possibly having to give him a max contract. I don’t think McGee is as bad as people make him out to be. He needs a mentor and maturing. If this team commits that much money to him, they should also make sure that they bring in the resources (a big man coach) to make sure they get their monies worth.
B) Grunfield hasn’t done that great of a job drafting. I think he over thinks the draft. Some picks that he made just aren’t that difficult to make. I didn’t like the Seraphin or Vesely pick at all because they both could have been used for more NBA-ready players. You don’t continue to draft projects when a) you don’t provide the means to actually develop them and b) you don’t have solid players in front of them that would allow them to develop without heavily relying on them. Instead we have two very raw players that are rotation players, that should not get any minutes. When you are building a team like this, I think it makes way more sense to use picks like this to get sure thing. What is the payoff for drafting Vesely? You know that he cannot shot the ball, so does that really help John Wall develop? This team needed a shooter. There were many players available that could do everything he does AND hit a jump shot. It shouldn’t be this difficult. I think he overestimates the talent that he has on this team. None of his project picks have panned out to be all-stars. Heck none of his lottery picks either, so should he just continue to do the same thing? Clearly something isn’t right.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 25, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Raw players with great potentional go early (John Wall, Derrick Favors)
Raw players with iffy upside go mid to late first (Seraphin, McGee)
To me, and I agree with you on that, in the late lottery and mid to late first you have to go for someone with a legit NBA skill. You’re not gonna find all around, do it all NBA ready players, because if there are any (Evan Turner supposey) they are going high too. À Nick Young, Marshon Brooks or Iman Schumpert type.
However, Ernie drafts low potential projecten like Ves and Kevin in or just outside the lottery… And indeed doesn’t provide the means to de develope them. He just throws them out there and pray’s they’ll pann out…. Smdh.
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 26, 2012 6:55 AM EST up reply actions
Its also that you have to mix up
drafting “NBA ready” (ie Booker) guys and “Project” (all our other picks) guys. You can’t draft all of either group (unless you picked in the top 5 every year or something where the “NBA Ready” guys dont have major weaknesses). You can get BOTH types of players in the 7-20 range, and you need both. If you draft all Booker-caliber players your ceiling will be low, but if you draft all project then the chances of them all developing are like .0001%.
by Maroon and Black on Feb 27, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Did you just say then why can't Mcgee get an offer close to $14 Mil?
Because Amir Johnson never ran back to defense while his team is on offense. Skill seems like it can be taught, but attitude and basketball IQ has to be mostly self-learned, and it seems like Nick Young and Javale are too immature to know that this is a job, you aren’t playing basketball like you were stars back in the days before you were a pro. And I believe Greg Oden got the 1 year qualifying offer.
by Young Wook Lee on Feb 29, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you, but that's not how the NBA works now
Players like McGee don’t get paid for what they do now, they get paid for potential. So if Greg Oden can miss two years in a row and still get a $8 million qualifying offer, I’m sure teams are willing to pay McGee more, especially given that he is 100% more durable. A lot of people see the potential with McGee (look at how much Shaq and Barkley talk about him) and some people may think just a little bit of coaching will bring it out of him.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Mar 1, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Ditto
Holy crap. $14M for a guy who hasn’t demonstrated that he’s a viable starter? Some might argue that he has already done the opposite. I’m not there, but I’m getting close. I wouldn’t match anything this summer. It may cost me later, but I’d rather pay max salary for a known stud than $14M for a guy that makes the team worse when he’s on the floor (his current status).
I’d sit down with him whenever it’s allowed and tell him: “Look Javale, we like you as a person — you’re a fun and funny guy — but this is a business and so far you haven’t proven that you’re worth a big contract. So what we’d like to do is give you another year to prove it. If you sign something with another team this summer, we aren’t going to match, and you’ll make what you make. However, if you’re confident then you could stay here on your current contract and bet on yourself. If things go well, you could even earn a max contract. If not, then you could still go out there and test the market based on your potential. You’ll still be 7’1” with a huge wingspan next year. We recognize that there’s a risk of injury that you have to consider — we respect that, but it doesn’t change our thinking." (Someone with less integrity than me would probably blow a whole bunch of smoke up his arse, but that’s the honest pitch.)
I know, I know
I don’t like the idea either, but I would rather pay him $14 million now if the team is committed to him than to pay him a max contract after next year if he doesn’t get a long term deal in the off-season. Honestly I don’t like the idea of paying him that much, but I’m just thinking if this team plans on keeping him long term, then I would rather pay a little bit more to keep him now, than to give him a possible max contract next year.
Here’s my thinking with this, let’s say we give him a qualifying offer and he accepts it. There are probably a few teams that are going to be willing to pay him a lot of money just based off of potential alone. Some people around the league just believe he needs better coaching. Well if that is the case, then if you really want this guy to be a part of your future, you have to be prepared to break the bank. I personally don’t think he’s worth it, but I would rather pay him that amount than for him to become an unrestricted free agent after next year (like Nick Young will), have a big year and then demand a max contract. I think that this team should make a decision one way or another. You either get rid of this guy or you pay him more than others to keep if you really want him to be part of this team. I mean some would argue that he has a higher ceiling than Deandre Jordan, which would be some justification as to why someone would pay more for him. All I’m saying is if you pay him and want to keep him, you are going to have to pay him on his potential, not his current production, because other teams will pay him that way.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Mar 1, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with your logic
However, I don’t agree that the Wizards should “really want this guy to be a part of (their)future” at this point. I’d rather let him walk than bet $14M per on his potential.
I don't know if PF is 'badly' needed
Trevor Booker does currently have the 9th best PER of any rookies or sophmores. It’d be nice to have a cohesive enough offensive gameplan to utilize his good decision making and sneaky post moves.
I’m not saying that DC should cross PFs off their draft & FA boards, or automatically ignore any trade ideas that involve Booker going out or a starting PF coming in, but I think it’s a little unfair to Booker to write as if the PF hole currently looks as big as the SF one.
I’m going to continue to keep my calm about the direction of this roster until I see what happens once Rashard & Andray are gone. Unfortunately, Ted Leonsis seems to be running this team as if it’s an actual investment instead of a luxury yacht which needs to be sporadically souped up and coated in chrome in order to impress the latest flock of golddiggers.
While I appreciate the general idea of how this rebuild is supposed to be functioning and I think that a lot of these guys on rookie contracts could stick with the team for a long time, it’s not going to click unless Leonsis & GM-To-Be-Named-Later get super aggressive at the trade deadline and in the offseason, I wasn’t expecting them to make a big splash until this trade deadline at the earliest, but it’s time to do that now.
I think we are overvaluing Booker
He’s a really good role player, but I don’t think he’s a key piece for this team. Do you think he has the ability to dominate a game? Does he have unstoppable offensive moves? To me, he is someone that you can be happy with his production, but you can find someone who can put up better play. That’s no knock on him, because I love him as a player on this team, but I honestly can’t see him being a key player on a championship team. Not at this point.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 25, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
People think Mack, Vesely, Singleton, Booker and Seraphin are better than counterparts like Gaines, Ayenga, Gee, Ayon and Evans or Erden, but they are really not. On top of that they overestimate the potential our players have.
I understand homerism but it’s just that: homerism. Ernie spend perfectly fine draft picks on limited players with moderate upside. Let alone that he could have used them to trade up.
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 26, 2012 7:02 AM EST up reply actions
Book could start
If there were HIGH quality players at the 2/3/5…with shooters to stretch the floor at 2/3 and a shot-blocking rebounding first center (like JaVale should be if he had a good head on him). That would allow Booker to do good Booker things while minimizing his weaknesses. Otherwise he is a rotation guy.
IF Booker keeps improving that 16-18ft jumper, then he can start no-matter what.
by Maroon and Black on Feb 27, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not John Hollinger
So I didn’t create the PER statistic simply to make Trevor Booker have one of the top 10 Player Efficiency Ratings of any of the rookie & sophmore players getting regular minutes.
I’m just saying there is a big gap between Booker and the rest of those guys – Booker could right now be the first big off the bench on a title team, none of those other guys could.
He’s the kind of player who is going to suffer in an offense built around hero ball. Is Evans Reggie Evans? He’s awesome, if the Clips win a series it will be because he rips off an opponents arms and beats him over the head with them.
Gustavo Ayon is a baller.
We should target Ersan Ilyasova. I had no idea he was only 24 until just now. I’ve loved that guy the past few years.
I'm not taking anything away from Booker
But don’t you agree that we can do better than him at PF? What’s wrong with him being a big off the bench. I think he can be an excellent 6th man. We are going to need that depth if we’re going anywhere as a franchise.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 26, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
We can definitely do better than Booker
but we have bigger holes at other 3 positions so it wouldn’t make sense to strengthen our second strongest position
by Young Wook Lee on Feb 29, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Well with so many holes
I would think you have to take the best player available. We are not in a position to pick players for certain positions for reasons you just stated. I’m not saying that you should find a replacement right away, but I would not build around him as my starting PF long term.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Mar 1, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
I love PER. It accounts for tangible production on the court.
Sure, it’s not perfect but if you look at PER rankings, it really matches what you already thought based on the ‘eye-test’ so to speak. Very rarely is a player ranked significantly lower than he should imo
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 27, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Also, it allows you to look at how productive an opponent is (as a team or a individual match up) against your own players.
If Channing Frye goes off again, I’m going to drive my car off an overpass. Via offramp, having used my turn signal in a safe and legal fashion - Bullet Nation in Exile
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 27, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Holy crap right after i wrote that
I looked past his age on the ESPN page and saw he’s averaging 19/16 over his last 3 games.
Guess he’ll be pricey, but I wouldn’t be opposed to signing a tweener forward like Ilyasova if he boards like that
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