Links: Magic-Wizards Recaps And Randy Wittman Cries Foul About Officiating
by Mike Prada on Feb 2, 2012 9:55 AM EST
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Today's links:
- Video of Randy Wittman expressing dismay at the 33-9 free-throw disparity between the Magic and Wizards last night. A quick note on the officials: while there were some iffy calls, it's important to note that the Magic are really good at defending without fouling. They're currently ninth in the league in lowest defensive free-throw rate (foul shots attempted per 100 field goal attempts). Last year, they were seventh. The year before that, they were fourth. Point being: they defend well without fouling, and that means they usually win the free-throw battle. [CSN Washington]
- Recaps [Us | SB Nation D.C. | CSN Washington | Washington Post (gamer, blog) Washington Times | Wiz of Awes | Orlando Sentinel | Orlando Magic Daily | Howard The Dunk | Magic Basketball | SB Nation Tampa Bay | Orlando Pinstriped Post | HoopData advanced box score | Popcorn Machine]
- Ernie Grunfeld thinks the Wizards are playing much better under Randy Wittman, sees a lot of positives, says a lot of nothing like always. [Washington Post | Wizards Insider]
- Great look at the Wizards' press that was used to get them back into the game against the Bulls. [Truth About It]
- JaVale McGee got posterized by Dwight Howard. Yikes. [SB Nation]
- The Magic waived Larry Hughes within minutes of last night's game ending. Cold. Blooded. [Orlando Sentinel]
- Trevor Booker is stepping up big-time. [Washington Examiner]
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In the Whitman video...
…about the pressure D against Chicago, he said that they had never practiced it and that no one had instructed McGee how to position himself as the “last man standing”.
That’s a pretty unbelievable indictment of the Flip years. If you look at this team, they can’t shoot but they are young and athletic. Light bulb: why don’t we mix it up and try pressure D every once in a while (e.g., to end or start quarters and/or in conjunction with certain players such as Singleton, etc.?)
Anyway, this team can be very good at pressure D. They can’t say that about many other things. Hence, they should focus on their one competitive advantage.
Agreed
The full court press was looking good in the Orlando game. This really disrupts a lot of teams because they aren’t expecting it. Randy should take a page out of Shaka’s playbook.
(see VCU Rams) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LkQA9q_Llk
what a fitting song for a team with Jáán, Manbearpig, CSing and Grown Ass man!
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
i'd like to see coach find a way to take pressure of john early in the game.....
draw up some sets to get the ball out of his hands the first few possessions…..
kinda let him gauge the flow of the game…..reduce him forcing the issue early so he doesnt lose confidence….
how coach handles john will decide whether or not he keeps this job
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
They may be good at not getting fouls called against themselves
but there is no excuse for them going to the line not twice as much as we did….not even 3 times. but damn near 4 times more often. And some of those fouls against them were so crazy blatant it just makes u sick
the thing about the NBA is that
if we want to be respected by the refs, we really have to beat these good teams at a good clip without help before we earn some stripes…
by thewiz06 on Feb 2, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
the problem is
the Wizards BEAT the Orlando Magic last night – in EVERY measurable way….
they shot better
made more shots from the floor
rebounded better
blocked more shots…
didn’t turn the ball over
Played with energy…shared the ball (26 assists)…
and generally outplayed the Magic in EVERY way
they SHOULD have won… When you outplay the other team, but lose because of foul calls – how can you gain the respect of the Referees?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 2, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
What, the stats/reputation correlation?
Which came first: the refs swallowing their whistles, or the Magic building their reputation?
And how is it that our reputation isn’t considered? Or are we conceding that we just don’t get fouled?
At any rate, if this game were an anomoly, then I think it would be fair to rationalize it away. But playing 5-on-8 in every game that your head coach doesn’t get ejected from is getting old.
It could be several factors
1) The refs could call a bad game – I think this has been covered
2) The Wizards don’t normally draw contact – which is true as the offense for the early part of year was predicated on jumpers
3) The Magic don’t foul much.
4) It is assumed that Dwight Howard is going to get hacked.
Or more than likely, its a mix of all four, two of which are bad, and two of which are not surprising.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah most that is valid rationalization.
But I still contend that there’s this huge relationship between perception and reality where one enforces the other. And that, therefore, I think that foul rates are an objective measure only of how often a team gets called for fouls, not how often a team fouls.
So those points could be reworded this way:
1) The refs normally call bad games against the wizards because they’re the wizards.
2)The wizards don’t normally get the call when they do draw contact because they’re the wizards.
3) The Magic have a reputation for not fouling much, and thus don’t get called for fouls much because they’re the Magic.
(point 4 is already perception-based…)
And that makes for an equally valid rationalization because of the fact that we’re way beyond the point where perception influences reality more than the other way around.
I bet refs hate doing our games
Run up the floor with John Wall- that’s exhausting. And the Wiz are going to lose anyway, why not just hurry the process along?
Hahaha!! .......sigh
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
Can our players learn to draw contacts?
like watching film of Paul Pierce?
Only if it's on youtube
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 4:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and I was pointing to Mike's first bullet point
as to the Magic being a good defensive team that doesn’t foul
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
And that's the point I was addressing.
To me the stat says they don’t get called much. Not that they don’t foul much.
I would disagree with that statement
Way too much of a sample to assume they’re just getting away with what other teams aren’t.
by Mike Prada on Feb 2, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I look at it differently
To me, basically that particular stat speaks to what the refs see (or don’t see). And that is clearly influenced by more than the actual action happening before their eyes. We’ve all watched enough basketball to see ref bias in action. To me the fact that it makes itself evident in long term statistics is itself a reinforcement of the notion, not a weakening of the notion. So I see no problem extrapolating the argument over the long term.
And they’re not the only ones getting away with it.
Anyway, what any stat related to fouling can’t tell you is which of those called fouls were bogus, and how many fouls weren’t called. And that’s the difficult part of the conversation, in that its an argument that you really can’t extract, isolate from other factors, and analyze. Because in the end, unlike other stats, its entirely based on what the refs see, or more accurately, what they think they see.
by jones-y on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Plenty of numbers that we use are subject to human error
Assists, for example. Your assumption seems to rest on the idea that referees miss calls more often than they make them. Mine rests on the idea that they’re right 95 percent of the time and wrong the other five percent.
Sorry if I’m not throwing out a four-year trend based on five percent of the data involved.
by Mike Prada on Feb 2, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No apology needed.
No defensiveness needed either. I see things differently than you, that’s all. We’re both allowed to breathe still.
Yeah but Mike's right and you're wrong.
Hope that helps.
don't be too hard on yourself mike
then again, breathing sometimes seems to be bad for wizards fans this season……
Crying helps
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 4:48 AM EST up reply actions
Here are some stats
All teams average 20.1 fouls per game.
Orlando averages 18.2 fouls per game.
The 10 fouls against the Wizards was the lowest this year for Orlando. The second lowest was 13 against the Wizards in their first game.
The third lowest was 14 fouls against Charlotte. Orlando also had a 15 foul against Charlotte.
The Wiz are fouled on average about 18 times a game.
Given the above, 10 fouls for an entire game (even Orlando versus the Wizards) seems to be an outlier.
by Izman on Feb 2, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
no wonder Dwight is always cheesing before our game
“Free pass tonight guys! Easy day at the office”
what a “coincidence” the Magic’s 4 lowest foul totals came against the two shittiest teams in the league.
Well, that could also be because both teams play dumb and the Magic are savvy
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 5:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fantastic Stats
Good job. I wonder if anybody could do a t-score analysis to determine the likelihood that this can be explain by random chance.
We need to keep doing this more often, and I think it will come.
maybe I was a bit emotional, but yes, we did beat the Magic except for free throws.
I hate the implication (which is probably reality) that we need to show the refs that we deserve
to get a fair shake. I’m not sure that’s the case in MLB or the NFL. The NBA is a professional sports league, right?
Unfortunately, a big part of John Wall’s game right now is charging into the lane like a bowling ball and hoping that the refs will call fouls on the pins.
by disgrunted on Feb 2, 2012 11:22 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I totally agree you have to earn respect from the refs
But that foul by D12 on Wall at the end of the game was egregious.
Its one thing to earn benefit of the doubt calls or superstar calls
but a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul. This wasnt the playoffs and u cant call ticky tack crap on one end and not the other, well u can as we saw from last night, but that shit is unacceptable. And you can make the point abt earning respect all day long but one team got away with mugging the other last night and thats that
Earn respect?
Even Ted, an NBA owner, has said that the team needs to “earn respect” from the referees. What this means is that apparently the NBA openly allows their referees to make calls based upon the team that is involved. Which is absurd. There are rules and they apply to both teams in a competition. And Dwight Howard should have to play by the same rules that JaVale McGee does. Because as Kurisu says, “a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul”. Maybe only fans of losing teams like ourselves are bothered by this double standard. But I believe it is a major issue in the NBA and one that has cost them a lot of supporters over the years.
agree whole-heartedly
i’m so disheartened that they went through an entire lockout and did not address the officiating.
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Feb 2, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
"a foul is a foul is a foul"
Since when? Ticky-tack fouls have been the norm for decades. Superstars get the calls, role players dont, thats how the league works. (Agent Zero was the beneficiary of a lot of them in his prime) Sure it might not be fair, but its not like its a new development. You should know going into the game that Dwight is going to draw some bullshit calls and adjust your game accordingly.
by Alpha_Snail on Feb 2, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
by "adjust your game accordingly"
You mean to win the battle on the court…. so the free throw disparity doesn’t matter?
Like outscoring the opponent by 24 points from the field?
Or our rebounding them?
Or what?
How exactly do you “adjust” to the Referees giving Orlando the opportunity to make an extra 39 points?
Are you saying that the Wizards should go into every game against Orlando with the mind set that they are already 39 points behind, and playing 5 against 8?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Yes, I am saying thats mindset the wizards show go into games against orlando with, because as we saw last night, that's whats going to happen.
We can complain about it all we want, but until Stern changes something (which he wont) thats the reality of the situation.
If you know Dwight is going to get his freethrows, there are a few things you could do:
a) slow the game wayyyy down. if we know dwight draws a foul every other posession, limit the number of possessions, and you limit his number of freethrows.
b) speed the game up. dwights a 40% freethrow shooter, give him enough freethrows, and he’ll end up missing more than he makes. every two misses is effectively a turnover, and if the wizards can score of those “turnovers” they have a much better chance of winning the game
c) get dwight in foul trouble. obviously easier said than done, but if he isn’t on the court, he’s not drawing fouls.
not to say any of those techniques guarantee the win, but they sure as hell are more effective than complaining about bad calls.
That's all fine and good, but
your points ‘a’ and ‘b’ contradict each other.
Also, Dwight shot 16 free throws. What’s your solution to lose the other 23?
by young, loud and Scotty on Feb 2, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
And on point c),
See last night’s game. How many fouls did DHoward commit?
of course they contradict eachother
they’re different strategies, we could try, not one uniform gameplan
and regarding the other 23 freethrows, the majority weren’t ticky-tack fouls. if our players stop going for pumpfakes, and starts to attack the basket a bit more, the FT disparity becomes a bit more reasonable.
regarding point c) the wizards did a pretty poor job of attacking dwight, imo. if we took more strong takes to the basket, and less double-take layups, we’d have a much better chance of getting him into foul trouble.
finally, and most importantly, as I said in the last sentence, none of these techniques guarantee a win. but they are more effective than expecting the referees to change the way they’ve been calling the game for years. Every time we play the Magic we get hosed by the referees, and thats not going to change. Its much more productive to try and strategize around it than to take a “woe is me” attitude and expect the refs to change.
in short, ref’s gonna ref, and its the job of the coaching staff to compensate strategically (even if it ends up being futile) to try and give us a better chance to win.
by Alpha_Snail on Feb 2, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
my argument isnt that the ref's called the game unfairly. they obviously did.
i’m saying that this happens every time we play the magic, and its going to happen for as long as #12 is their center. its a disadvantage we have to learn to play around, otherwise we will never beat them.
in my opinion, complaining about an advantage in officiating is no different than complaining about a talent. yes, its not fair, and we can complain about it, but at the end of the day its a reality that the team needs to learn to deal with.
Regarding point c)
In an unevenly called game, trying to get the opponent’s star player in foul trouble is a bad strategy. That’s not crying foul (pun intended), that’s just simple reasoning.
Or do you think, given the way the game was officiated, that it would somehow have magically (no pun intended) worked?
i think we might be disagreeing on what point c) entails
We probably disagree on this, but i think last night, the foul discrepancy wasn’t due to missed calls on our end (except for Wall’s drive in the 4th), but due to bad calls on our defenders. In a game officiated like last night, i dont think it would have been futile to try and pick up a quick two fouls on howard in the first quarter.
to me, that means forcing howard to switch onto perimeter players like Wall, Young and Crawford via the pick and roll, and trying to finish through, not around howard when attacking the basket. Defensively, flop when the opportunity is given.
im not saying that we should be posting up mcgee every time down the floor, or driving into the lane on every play. to me, trying to pick up fouls on howard is something we would have tried on occasional possessions, and if wouldnt have worked, as you argue, i would obviously wouldnt want the team to continue trying.
Part of the art of getting calls is establishing a relationship with the refs.
Nick and JaVale haven’t done that. Nick will occasionally bark, but doesn’t walk over to the sideline ref and lobby his case. Lewis and even Booker will talk to the baseline ref during free throws, something I don’t think I’ve ever seen JaVale do. Of course, Wall needs to work on his people skills too.
by djnnnou on Feb 2, 2012 11:43 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Totally agree
Gilbert said he used to watch tape and especially pay attention to the refs and how they call the games and would know every one of their names.
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Feb 2, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
something the players can learn from Gil
Nick – follow your big bro.
The whole team should
Way to many techs are called on us. They née to just keep cool and they’ll get the calls
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Feb 2, 2012 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good Point
Let the refs know that you appreciate them.
If anyone has ever refed a game you know how tuff it is.
Complaining about every call won’t get you anywhere.
by VBfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gilbert never got a call in his entire career at the wizards.
Face it — Stern HATES the Wizards and it’s never going to change. Wish I knew what his beef was — Pollin’s out, Ted’s in — let it rest already!
he did
on the way up. post-injury, on the way down, he did not get as many
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Feb 2, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Durant hugged every single referee on his first preseason game after the lockout
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
Soooo...
If you’d care to adjourn yourselves to the OPP recap thread (but behave):
First of all, Dwight alone got 16 FT’s, and teams are always trying to foul him. Secondly, JJ got defenders to bite on pump fakes, and our wings were taking it to the hole under control frequently (for once). Thirdly, the Bullets were shooting a lot of jumpers, and when they did take it in the hole, they were often either a.) not contested (which angered me) or b.) wildly out of control (looking at your, Wall). There were a couple drives where I thought that you guys deserved a trip to the line, but it wasn’t very many.
Sorry.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 2, 2012 12:36 PM EST reply actions
Personally I don't remember any of our player biting on any pump fakes
Am I remembering wrong? Also, even if all the made FG’s at the rim were uncontested, and all of Wall’s 6 misses at the rim weren’t fouls, what about the 8 missed FG’s at the rim by players other than Wall?
And that still doesn’t account for moving screens and other offensive fouls
Sorry for being sour grapes, I just don’t feel like that argument covers everything.
Being positive
The only thing i could say to myself when that happened: How lucky that’s not a 3 point shot!
i think wiz got a little hosed
but if there is one thing this team does consistently,to an infuriating degree, it is go hard for pump fakes, all the time. Nick, Ves, Kevin all did last night,
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Feb 2, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think we are not even accounting for the 2 techs...
we had 4 shooting fouls called…
that is virtually impossible, no matter how good a teams defense is….we were just standing outside shooting threes and longs 2s all game. Sorry…
This isn't really accurate
According to hoopdata, we shot 40 shots inside of 10 feet and 52 outside. The Magic shot 26 inside 10 feet and 47 outside.
So that means we were shooting inside 43.2% of the time compared to the Magic’s 35.6%. Saying that they got more fouls because of their inside game isn’t supported by the statistics.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Feb 2, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Passed that on to OPP
good data point
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 2, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I meant we were not just standing outside
not sure it you noticed the typo and were agreeing…but in any case your stats verify my assumption…
Only 4 fouls, while shooting inside more than the other team is as I said, virtually impossible.
It was yet another reply fail on my part
Sorry for the confusion
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Feb 2, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
loving the reports of seraphin kicking ass
He’ll get there eventually
by BballBrit on Feb 2, 2012 1:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The original Bruise Brothers were bigger I think...
Mahorn was 6’10, Ruland 6’11 as I recollect.
They were also a bit nastier.
yeah but nastiness is much rarer it seems
in todays NBA. adjusted for 2012 nastiness, they definitely stand out. at least on this team of softies they do.
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Feb 2, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
.232, .317, .280, .182
The winning percentage of the Wizard now in the 4th season of losing. Things will turn around any season now.
Well we will probably regress upward towards the mean before this year is out...
I figure we will at least cross the Mendoza line.
I think we are crossing the Grunfeld credibilty line
Who is he to tell us about winning when this team has been bad for the last 4 seasons. Uh, excuse me Ernie?
by hambonejackson on Feb 3, 2012 4:52 AM EST up reply actions
Ha! Did we ever get passed the 50 win mark during his tenure?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
Not to nitpick
But the FT disparity was 39-9 (not 33, unless you are not counting the free throws at the end). Fouls were 28-10. Anyways Mike brought up the point that the Magic are statistically prone to win the free throw and foul battle, which is fair. But those statistics are anomalies, historical anomalies that go beyond any team’s tendencies.
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