Wizards vs. Jazz Recap: Tired Legs; Tired Minds
by Sean Fagan on Feb 17, 2012 11:13 PM EST
Email
Print
Sometimes as a team you just hit a wall. Tonight, that brick visage was in the form of the Jazz front court. In a performance that was eerily reminiscent of the one we saw a few days ago in Portland, every shot that Paul Milsap and Al Jefferson put up seem to go through the twine. This was in no way to excuse the Wizards defense, which loosely sagged off the of the two Jazz big men for most of the evening and paid the price. I am confused as to why coach Randy Wittman decided to play Jefferson the way he did, as there is enough tape on him to show that you need to push him out and constantly body him up rather than allow him to establish position or shoot uncontested from 10 to twelve feet.
Besides that there was a bit of hero ball and a lot of tired legs and tired minds. Prior to the season, many were opining the condensed schedule would be a blessing to a young team like the Wizards. However, that has simply not proven the case as they were run down by a more fit Clippers team and subsequently outmuscled by a physical Jazz frontline. And although one can only be impressed by how Randy Wittman has gotten this team to perform over the past few weeks, now is the time you have the question his use of the starters in both the Portland and LA games. Wall and McGee did their best on the evening, but everyone else was simply on puncher's legs for most of the evening.
Oh well, there is always Sunday (Editor's note: Or Monday - West Coast trip's leave me pretty wiped.)
123 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
jc was hoggin
But honestly it was working better than anything else we could string together so I wasn’t even pissed
Jazz front court is pretty good
and the Wizards is limited. They continued to attack and the Wiz just don’t have the players to stop them right now.
by hambonejackson on Feb 17, 2012 11:30 PM EST reply actions
Yep
Their onslought of true bigs was just too much for our too-skinny/too-short frontcourt. We still really need at least one real big man that has both height and strength.
Mini-recap:
N1 sucked once again. I knew he would revert back to that 1-on-1, overdribbling crap after the Portland game. I knew it was too good to be true, and I tried to downplay his performance because I knew he couldn’t keep it up. He’s not in our long-term plans.
Crawford puts up empty stats. His stats look pretty good on the box score, but it’s much deeper than that. His dribbling and shot-selection kills the offense, and it’s really bad because he’s not very quick, so he struggles to get to the rim.
JaVale had some nice moves offensively, but he also took some dumb shots. And he should’ve done a much better job on the boards. The Jazz killed us with their 2nd chance points.
Mack is a scrub. His game isn’t dynamic at all, has no quickness, and doesn’t play with confidence. I thought he would be better.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
by DMVLeGenD on Feb 17, 2012 11:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agree.
Mack could have made some easy layups that he missed tonight…pressing too much?
I don't know why
But Mack looks like he’s nervous at times, like he’s scared to mess up or the game is just too fast for him and he’s thinking too much.
by p.robb87 on Feb 18, 2012 12:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
He always trying to make the “right” play, but because of that, he’s usually making the wrong play. He plays scared out there like Mustafa Shakur. After reading all the scouting reports from him at Butler, I thought we got a gut with sky-high confidence and with clutchness after seeing some of his game-winners. I have yet to see any of it.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
Jeez
The guy is a second round pick 31 games into his career. With NO PRESEASON. Give him a break.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 3:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Preseason is 7-10 games. Mack is having trouble breaking the lineup on a bad team with little gaurd depth.
I think he will develop into a serviceable backup but people on here are making him out to be a lot better than he really is.
Preaseason is practice. Preseason is learning. Preseason is the first step on this thousand mile journey of becoming an NBA caliber point guard.
Mack is no Wall, he’s no Rubio. But he’s playing pretty well for a first half of the season second round pick. Really he shouldn’t even be getting playing time yet.
Backup is his career trajectory. I guess people have to adjust their expectations.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 4:15 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I can watch a player for 30 games
and project what their next 1500 games will like. It seems obvious to me.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 6:26 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
Wait…you’re being sarcastic, right? I’m not sure if I’m laughing with you or at you right now.
i wasn't trying to bash the kid. stop being a sarcastic douche.
people on here think he is a sure-fire starter.
In my opinion Mack is a LOT better than Shakur
Shakur looked overmatched. Mack looks pretty solid out there most of the time. Check out his on/off stats here. Pretty good considering who he’s subbing for.
Most people here think Mack is a sure-fire starter later in his career. I don't and never saw it.
And someone else was saying he’s worth 2 first rounders…LO got traded for one.
Most straw men
This is the first time I’ve heard anyone mention this
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Feb 18, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
What??
I challenge you to find a two people who said Mack was worth 2 first rounders…were you sober when you wrote this (at 1am on Friday)? What I hear continuously (and agree with) is that Mack is a solid backup and exactly what we need for a 2nd unit PG.
I mean
It’s what some of us were most fearful of. And many expected, logically or otherwise.
Nobody questions his catch and shoot ability. We know he can stroke it. But its everything else that makes him not worth the $9 mil a year. Especially the fact that he doesn’t quite understand how good he is at the catch and shoot.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 19, 2012 11:46 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
welcome back javale
We missed that lack of defense.
And Chris singleton has no business starting or logging any minutes on this team…send him to the d-league
by Oldbuckwilder on Feb 17, 2012 11:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
JaVale wasn't the only one getting killed
Jefferson was killing everybody. That one hand jump-hook was unstoppable.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
But
Javale is the one we’re about to be giving $10+ mil a year to.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 19, 2012 11:49 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Singleton's offensive game is weak
But he’s a good defender overall. Definitely belongs in the NBA, especially on this team. We have done better with him starting.
Javale is Javale. He adds so much and takes so much away at the same time that I can’t evaluate his overall contribution by watching. Just when I’m convinced he’s a waste of oxygen, he does 5 amazing things in a row. His on/off stats are dreadful though, especially considering that we don’t really have a backup center.
Problem is
Who do you start over Singleton? I agree, he doesn’t look like a starter right now, but neither does Lewis. Of the two, I’d rather start the young guy. I was ecstatic with the way Singleton started out the season. But my fervor for him is ebbing.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
You are right.
We drafted 2 SF’s and signed another one (Evans). Flip has also asked Book to work on his jumper last yr so he could play a little SF too.
I think Nick Young is our best SF but then you’d have to play him with Chuckford at the 2. Wall will never get the ball anymore, nor does McGee.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 19, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
We don't have a frontcourt.
McGee struggles against real competition again I don’t care about stats (funny how I always say that when it comes to McGee) but dude is not the answer he get’s manhandled when it comes to legitimate big men, I seen the samething last game against Jordan again so what he had a good offensive game, and it doesn’t shock me he had good games against average centers prior to last game and tonight. Trade him and get what you can.
Kevin Seraphin lost cause as in he doesn’t know what he’s doing, and his attitude stinks one play towards the end of the game Mack told him to set a screen and Seraphin huffing and puffing shaking his head I mean dude could be a cancer the body language between him and a couple players are not good.
Vesely and Booker are the only two I am keeping going forward, but they have proven to be good roll players off the bench.
by p.robb87 on Feb 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
disagree
Jefferson got hot plain and simple Wizards shoulda double team Jefferson is ncapable of having big games on anyone.
Mcgee outplayed Jordan last game Jordan couldn;t guard him 1on1.
Mcgee has played well against some good centers, Horford, Noah, Chandler.
so not sure what you’re seeing. You don;t trade young bigs who are as productive as he is. Stats matter and he’s playing well.
maybe you are a Mcgee hater. since you admit to saying the same things when it applies to Mcgee.
by jazzy1 on Feb 18, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
careful with the h-bomb...
but yeah, I agree with Sean’s sentiment applied to McGee…it’s tough to sustain a high level of play deep into a road trip, new asthma meds or not
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hater ???
Stop it, it’s funny you mention those games against good Centers such Horford, Noah, and Chandler, but you fail to realize they actually had better games against him lol. You can continue to make excuses for a 4th yr player. Tired legs I don’t think you can justify it as that when the Sixers started the year on a 8 game road trip and went like 6-2 and they are just as young as we are, plain and simple the frontcourt lost this game for us. You are right stats matter in summer league it’s funny none of the greats care about stats unless it was in victory. I can’t blame tired legs on one of the youngest teams in the league that’s just my public opinion whether you like it or not.
Jordan couldn’t guard McGee, he had 18 points and only like 6 rebs that’s not owning the paint and I still saw Jordan throwing McGee around, it’s funny some people are scared to defend McGee at times why cause his on again off again production that’s what I like to call inconsistent. I am also pretty sure McGee probably got a few of those points on alley-opps off the fastbreak seeing how we are like in the top 5 in that category, but McGee backing Jordan down consistently not happening, do you see how he back’s people down I mean he’s practically at their kneecaps that’s how he’s always getting caught in a tough position in the post.
This was a chance for a bounce back game because they owned on the glass vs the Clippers we were out rebounded like 60/40 on the glass and you are telling me McGee outplayed Jordan.
Obviously you did;t look to carefuly into the Mcgee jordan match ups
Mcgee has outplayed Jordan for most of their careers.
Mcgee backed down Jordan with ease for buckets in the Clipper game. Jordan and Mcgee are mirror to a point Mcgee being the better scorer better offensive player.
Jordan is averaging 8,8rebs and 3 blks. He chaes bad blocks like Mcgee does, Goaltends a bunch , but the difference is he has no clue offensively you can never trow him the ball in the post. all he does is literally dunk.
Jordan like Mcgee isn’t a strong on ball defender and Mcgee scored on him easy back downs for a dunk for ahoook for a layup EASY.
Mcgee averages 12,9, and 3 blks playing on the most selfish team in the league. If he had Cp3 passing to him he might actually be averaging 15ppg right now.
Wizards getting beat on the boards wasn’t all Mcgee’s fault how could it be he’s one guy a 20 pt reb deficit isn’t about 1 player or is there something I’m missing. LOL
Jordan got 3 more boards than Mcgee did. an Mcgee scored 7 more pts.
I’ll take Mcgee a young center getting12,9,3 blks is a huge asset for any team.
Mcgee outplayed Noah chased him outta the game in Chicago, outplayed Horford and hung in there with Chandler.
so Probb87 not sure where you get this notion they outplayed mcgee from simply because their teams won.
Mcgee won the 2nd matchup Jordan the 1st and Mcgee over their careers has outplayed jordan
by jazzy1 on Feb 18, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jordan easily won both matchups against McGee, imho.
McGee is an athletic marvel, but he’s just too wispy at this point to handle physical players at this point. He routinely gives up good position with little to no fight (I assume he thinks he’ll just block whatever the opponent puts up, given his athleticism). From what I can see, he has to get a lot stronger and start thinking and acting like a big man. I’d rather see him get a couple fouls trying to hold his defensive position instead of just letting opposing bigs get to their sweet spots.
The old Celtics
were a very successful team because the found out what players could do best and had them do it. Mel Counts was a successful player for them. We traded for Counts and tried to make him a traditional center. He failed miserably. McGee is not a traditional center, you will never successfully make him one.
Good point about McGee
Maybe that’s the answer…finding that role in which he can truly excel rather than just pluggin him in at center and being continuously disappointed. Is he like a Birdman in Denver? Manute Bol type contributor? How can the Wizards leverage what McGee does well without exposing his limitations so much?
It's a process
I’m so much happier with where this team is right now. John is showing that he can be legit star and Vesley and booker can be pieces — maybe Mack and singleton — the rest are either gone (ab, ny, and yes jmcgee … an athletic freak but I say you move him for some assets cuz he ain’t ever going to be the answer) or big questions (JC, cs,ks) or just marking time. Knowing the pieces is a big step forward. Time to cut the last ties to the big 3 era and commit to a rebuild. And oh yeah, fire Ernie.
I think Wall-Mack makes us pretty set at PG for the foreseeable future. Crawford can be a 6th man in the future, and I really don’t see him having enough trade value to give him up anytime soon. Nick Young can walk, no one will miss him. Singleton and Vesely can both be rotational players who can play the 3 or 4, but neither is starter-quality. Hold onto them for depth unless another team covets one of them. Booker is a beast, I think he can be a starting PF on a contender, but in a perfect world he would be coming off the bench as an energy guy. That could be achieved in the draft with either Davis, Sullinger, or T. Robinson. Seraphin is worth hanging onto for now, unless or until he has some trade value.
McGee is really the only player whose future role I am unsure of. On the one hand, freakishly athletic 7-footers don’t come along everyday, and he can definitely be a starting C on a good team. However, I don’t see him ever becoming an elite player, and he is probably our most valuable trade chip other than Wall. If he could bring back a first round pick, even if it means taking on a bad contract, and I think he could, he should be traded. I don’t know how the Suns are run, but McGee & Singleton for Childress, Frye, and their 1st seems like a fair trade to me that would benefit both sides.
I didn't watch the whole game
But, I didn’t think it was an unmitigated disaster as some of the post indicate.
1. The Wizards put up 100 pts.
2. Jordan Crawford’s shot is coming back.
3. Jan Vessely had an okay game. He’s still pretty raw, but there were a few plays that showed sparks.
Old Nick returns. Ball stops moving when him and Crawford get the ball again. Sooooo many second chance points and points off turnovers. Singleton is starting to become invisible to me. Maybe the rookie wall is hitting him hard cause I don’t see Mr. ACC 2x Defensive player. Jan does all the little things as usual. Book and McGee couldnt contain Big Al. Johns jumper is getting more consistent but he tried to force plays like earlier this year. Wish Mack would take the open looks he gets. 2 days of rest before Phoenix, no excuse to get out hustled.
by Jordo on Feb 18, 2012 1:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Just like the wizards....
… Sean can get tired too, I think he mentioned the Monday game against phx. ☺
"Elk voordeel heb z'n nadeel" - Johan Cruijff
by Amsterdamned on Feb 18, 2012 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
This season has that effect I think!
Was hoping for a better effort last night but agree the loss was not a disaster.
Wall continues to show good stuff. I liked Vesely’s numbers.
The old Nick is always a threat to return, I guess. It is not enough to have a $9 million Nick one game in three. And looking back at the numbers, I do recollect that Foye was a 16 ppg player the year before EG swopped the 5 pick for him and Miller. Hmmmmm.
I expected more pushback from Book and JVM also. And Singleton continues to be a cipher.
Re: Phoenix. This should be an interesting game. JVM against the Polish Hammer :-)
Suns run the high pick and roll with Nash and Gortat all day
if we don’t close out well against the three point shooters and contain Kieff off the bench, this one will probably get ugly…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
Forgot to mention
Gortat has a nice short to midrange shot…if we aren’t closing out, that’s bad news.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
You don't have to convince me...
The Polish Hammer has found a perfect mate in Nash.
Of all the stupid things Otis Smith did
i think trading Gortat is the killer deal.
Sean doesn't get tired
we just replace his batteries. His head exploded after Gungate and Mike looked at Jake, Rook and I over the wreckage and told us, ‘We can make him better.’
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but I blame you for all the classical literature references....
You were the one that suggested we download all the Shakespeare and other classics into his flash memory….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
BTW Sean
Keep up the classical literature references….
I have to go back to my wife’s bookstore and re-read them to get the references….(yes, it’s been that long since I’ve read most of the classics…. How long, you say? My kids see the opening of the Flintstones cartoon, and ask me if I owned a car like that)
.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Your wife owns a bookstore?
That is awesome…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
well, you guys shot down implanting a desire to grow a mustache like Phil’s, so fair’s fair
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
church
you heathen (sarcasm font…just to be safe)
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 18, 2012 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
By the stats Seraphin and McGee played well
I didn’t see the game past q1, but McGee was 15/6/3bs on 7-14, and Seraphin was +12 in 19 mins. McGee and Seraphin are actually an improvement over Brendan Haywood and Etan Thomas, and Booker does plenty of stuff better than Jamison. The problem with this team is not the frontcourt, esp. when Turiaf gets back. It’s the Singleton/Crawford/Lewis complex (I leave Young out of this because he’s not totally useless, if used in the right situations). Don’t blame McGee because there’s no SF or SG.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Feb 18, 2012 3:17 AM EST reply actions
This was a response to p.robb87 above
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Feb 18, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
Right ???
So McGee our future Center only grabbing 6 rebs is the SG and SF fault. I am glad you didn’t watch the game cause then you wouldn’t have seen how weak McGee looked or how lost Seraphin was out there. Those stats don’t mean anything especially if you lost, I am always hearing about stats well I guess the only good thing going right now is to look at the stat sheet huh ???. McGee hardly played down the stretch that’s how bad he was getting murdered by not just Jefferson, but Kanter and Millsap too. I said above we have seen enough to know Booker and Vesely are backups, but I am telling you McGee is not the Center of the future. Also they actually went on a little run while Crawford and Lewis were in the game, Young penetrated to the rim even though the ball did stick to his hands, so I can’t blame the wing for making plays, our frontcourt lost us the game.
by p.robb87 on Feb 18, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Al Jeff has torched every single C in the league on multiple occasions thru his career
the reason he;s not the most dominant player in the nba and has been traded several times is because he is so bad defensively…..we should have gone right at him all night, I think Javale was 5-5 in the 1stQ but then only took 1FGA in the 2nd while Chuckford launched 9 shots. That’s just horrible.
and no, i am not saying we could have should have won the game, just that i dont get why we go perimeter when Kanter is a terrible defender, Milsap is 6’7", and Al’s weakness has always been paint defense
Some thoughts
Vesely looked much better than Kanter, who is really just Seraphin with a different accent.
We got severely out hustled and Al Jefferson was amazing.
Every basket Crawford makes is just more fools gold. At this point I’d prefer a missed shot within the offense to a falling-down-against-a-double-team miracle make.
Not sure where the team from the Portland win was, but this wasn’t them.
Have to think there was some emotional hangover from the Clippers game. Young team has to learn to move on.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 4:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Except for Kanter controlling the paint
he wasn’t much
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
I thought he looked good in his 15 minutes
2 of 4 shooting, he hit his FT’s and he grabbed boards, lots of boards. Kanter isn’t a highlight player, but he does the important stuff that helps you win games.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 18, 2012 6:54 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah - on a pretty good Jazz team
with a loaded front court, Kanter can only get about 15 minutes a game…. Yet he’s averaging 5.5 points and 5.5 rebounds a game.
If he were playing on the Wizards, he’d be the starting Power forward, averaging a double double…. The Wiz would still suck, but they’d be a much better rebounding team..
He’s right up there with the leaders in rebounds per minute (over 14 per 40 minutes) – and he’s got a nice touch around the basket… As expected, he gets his shot blocked some, but he’s tough and usually gets the basket on second effort anyway. He’s also struggled with his outside shot this year – but his form is very good and it’s only a matter of time before he starts knocking down those mid-range jumpers.
Defensively he’s been much better against Centers than PFs. That was to be expected considering his average athleticism and lack of lateral quickness.
Overall – he’s progressing nicely- The scary part is that he’s playing in the NBA, and putting up decent numbers – and he’s only 19 years old…..
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Kevin Seraphin - 22 2nd year, Enes Kanter - 19 - 1st year
I know which one I would want getting more minutes…
I think Kanter is doing fine…
FWIW
Kanter got blocked on half his attempts in the paint.
If he were a Wizard everyone around here would be killing him for not being able to jump and would be calling him a bust (which I’m NOT doing).
Seraphin has only been playing basketball for 8 years.
Kanter started his career playing with a professional team 6 years ago.
If I were choosing a team I’d take Kanter over Seraphin, but not by much. Kanter vs Vesely would be a tossup. But I certainly wouldn’t trade a bucket full of picks for him.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
But I certainly wouldn’t trade a bucket full of picks for him.
And that’s precisely why the Wizards rebuild is in first gear.
Even if he were the perfect fit next to your 7’1" uber-athletic big man, you can’t pull the trigger on a trade to move up….
Even if his tremendous defensive rebounding could jump start your uber-fast Point Guard and his fast break, Ernie spouts the Company line that it would have cost too much.
Even if he immediately became the best pick-and-roll, pick-and-pop partner for your franchise PG…. take a chance on another ultra Athletic guy with high upside instead.
Kanter’s not a super jumper…. and gets his shot blocked…
So does Kevin Love… So does Millsap…
Kanter cleaning the boards and throwing outlet passes that start the Wizards fast break, with finishers like Singleton or Booker and McGee and Young or Crawford running with Wall….. It’s a nice dream – but it’s not a REALITY because the Wizards refuse to make substantial moves…..
Instead of moving up in the draft, they stay put… Instead of spending on productive Free Agents, we get to watch Maurice Evans and Roger Mason.
They have a ton of money available this Summer – but only IF they Amnesty Blatche, and release Lewis… If Ernie Grunfeld is still in charge this Summer, I’ll bet we’ll be hearing about how Lewis is a good veteran clubhouse presence, and Blatche is one of the Wizards young core pieces…. and we won’t see ANY movement on the FA front…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
the only problem with your scenarios is Kanter doesnt perform like you are saying he does.
Perfect pick&roll and pick&pop? The guy is one of the slowest footed bigs in the entire nba and he’s shooting about 15% outside 10 feet. The Kanter you keep describing and the Kanter who actually plays in the nba appear to be different people my friend!
by DCrez on Feb 18, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I disagree with you about Kanter
He is a better athlete than you give him credit for. He is a very crafty type of player. He has tons of skills. He simply has not played in the league long enough to know how to apply all those skills.Its the same with Vesely. It takes time to learn the offense, to know instinctively how to play and to get to know the opposition. If it were all about athleticism, McGee would be an all-star. Thorton would be a multiple all-star.
Kanter will score 25 and he will probably add about 18-20 boards to go with it. Probably some assists and blocks. Kanter will learn to out smart his opposition because he knows what they are going to do and how they will try to defend him. He is intelligent.
Think about players like Bargnani. Anyone think he is quick? And yet he can take it to the basket because he is crafty. What great athleticism did it take for Jefferson to destroy the Wiz? Our uber-athletic center, now in his 4th season, was helpless to do anything about it because Jefferson is a very crafty and skilled vet.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Kanter is going to be a 25/20 player?
so you think he’s the best player in the league?
I can watch a player for 30 games and project what their next 1500 games will like. It seems obvious to me.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Kanter combines strength,length, will and skill
with a basic understanding of the game. Some players are just pretty frickin obvious and he is one of them.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Strength he certainly has.
Which play(s) last night demonstrated his length, will or skill? I’ll go back and watch them again. Maybe I missed something.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
This is the link for the 2011 Utah Jazz scounting report on Kanter
http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/draft2011_eneskanter.html
just to see what they think of him as they drafted him.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Not as an avg.
But he will eventually have those types of games. He has always had those types of games. He isn’t one of those raw untested players like McGee. Kanter will be a very good big man because he always has been. Bird was not the most athletic player I watched, but he was one of the most skilled.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I am getting a bit tired of people exagerating his modest athleticism (averaging 25 and 20 is a bit much though lol)
I feel tempted to rage about his qualities to counter but I will not.
He is over 5 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes. He is shooting over 40% on catch and shoot from midrange and he holds the paint. If this kid would play for us, he’d start and be a consistant double-double guy, set solid screens for John that sping him free and hit the top of the key catch and shoot when he’s open.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 18, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
6 boards in 15 minutes
on a team that has Jefferson, Milsap, and Favors. McGee, our all-star to be 5, had that for the whole game. Whats this? In a 1/2 season of his NBA career and he dominated the Wiz in the paint.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 19, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest
He looked a little overweight to me. Maybe it was just me…
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 19, 2012 2:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
This is still a no for me
Because if I understand correctly, which maybe I dont, Utah would’ve wanted THIS year’s 1st round pick. Kanter is definitely not worth that.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
for every high there's a low
This was a tough game played at high altitude and with minimal rest against one of the best frontcourts in the NBA. Given all that, we didnt do as bad as we could have. How the Jazz got both Favors and Kanter stills blows my mind.
Moreover this team isn’t a good matchup for the wiz, they’re a halfcourt grind team. Things will be better in Phoenix.
by BballBrit on Feb 18, 2012 4:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Kanter
Kanter doesn’t look like a superstar, but he’s averaging 13 boards and 13 points per 36 minutes (and he’s being used sporadically). More importantly, he’s the kind of body that is needed next to McGee.
Kanter sits 8th or 9th on the depth chart of Utah. In other words, they don’t need him. But they need scoring off the bench, particularly from the guard positions. Would they be interested in Blatche and a SG for Kanter?
must admit i like Ves better at this point
Jan is so much more dynamic, he has nba quicks and movement whereas Kanter is slooooooow.
On the other hand Jan tends to look good when he isn’t matched up vs anyone and is kinda filling in the cracks. As soon as he was directly vs Favors it didn’t look good and he appears very tweener whereas Enes is certainly a ‘real’ big
by DCrez on Feb 18, 2012 12:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Enes Kanter = Aaron Gray
That sweet-looking low post game isn’t useful if he can’t recognize and pass out of a double team. Currently, he’s dead last in the NBA in assist ratio. Feeding him in the post is kind of like trying to use Nick at PG.
It’s still really early, but it looks like he’s going to end up as just a big, slow body that can rebound, set picks, and only gets an opportunity to toss in a hook shot off an offensive rebound.
And
Grab 13 rebounds per game…. play solid defense against the best Centers in the league… play with energy every night…
Plus his mid-range jump shot is perfect for the pick-and-roll play…
I think there’s more to Kanter’s game than you’re seeing….
Kid is averaging 5.5 & 5.5 in 15 minutes playing… And that’s not because he can jump higher than everyone else. As Izman said, that’s a double double (13 and 13) EVERY NIGHT…. and he’s only 19 years old….
You’re absolutely right… He doesn’t jump out of the gym. He also doesn’t jump into the lights at every pump fake. He can’t dunk from the free throw line. He’ll never ilicit an “ooh” or an “aah” from the crowd. He’ll never win a dunk contest 0r a 3-point shooting contest. He doesn’t run down court as the speed of a gazelle… But he doesn’t leave his man to go for a block, and leave the middle wide open. He doesn’t try to dribble down court like a PG. He doesn’t make bad passes or stupid mistakes because of fatigue. And he doesn’t eat cinnamon, or need his mom to defend him.
He’s not flashy. He’s not spectacular. He’s gonna beat you with strength; with hustle; with determination; with toughness; with energy; with smarts…… but most of all, he’s going to beat you.
Can you tell I’m still pissed we didn’t find some way of moving up to draft him?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Sounds like Aaron Gray
Gray also rebounds well, actually slightly better than Kanter on a per minute basis (15 rebs per 40 min vs Kanter’s 14 per 40). Gray also plays solid D against centers.
I wouldn’t count on Kanter’s midrange game yet. He’s shooting 12.5% on 10-15 footers and 17% on 16-23 footers. It’s possible he’ll improve, but I wouldn’t count on it any more than I would count on Vesely or Seraphin to develop their shooting range.
And again, Kanter is dead last in the NBA in assist ratio. Court vision is probably the hardest basketball ability to develop. If it’s not already there when you get to the NBA, it’s probably never going to be a significant part of your game. Gray is miles ahead when it comes to passing ability.
No comparison between Gray at 19 and Kantor at 19
In fact, there is no comparison at all. Gray is averaging 11 and 11 over his career with enough minutes to improve. In other words, he’s maxed out. Kantor is at 13 and 13 with no developmental minutes at all at 19 years old. It you look at trajectories for big guys, he’s a likely 15 and 15 man.
Kanter is nba-ready now for big minutes. Seraphin and Vesely are not. And Booker is too small for the PF as a starter next to McGee.
Why do you assume Kanter's pounts will increase?
Gray’s points have decreased over the course of his career. He and/or his coaches have realized that his percentages don’t merit many shot attempts. His usage rate has decreased as his career has progressed.
Kanter’s percentages from the field are even worse and, again, he has extreme tunnel vision. Kanter’s usage rate is probably going to have to come way, way down. Without major improvements, it’s likely that his minutes won’t increase much, either.
Not an offensive weapon. Can’t stay in front of anyone on D. Excellent rebounder. Big body. Adds up to Aaron Gray.
by yop32 on Feb 18, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How big do you suppose the error bars are on those data points?
Maybe something like: Centers’ PER changes by +0.5, plus or minus 7?
Given Kanter’s mediocre FG% and tunnel vision, he’ll likely best help his team by cutting his usage rate and purposefully choosing to put himself in the lower end of that error bar, lowering his PER from 15.8 to less than 10, like Aaron Gray.
dude, you were biased against Kanter like forever.
HE IS 19!!!!
He is 13 and 13 per 36minutes and he is 19!
If anything, you are making a good case for Gray instead of trying to down Kanter.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 18, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
I was actually pretty high on Kanter
It’s just that I thought that Valanciunas was a better bet to pair with Wall.
Gray had 15.5 points and 9.9 rebounds per 36 his rookie year and shot 50%.
Just as a lark I calculated that Gray averaged 10 and 10 per 36 as a 19 year old freshman at Pitt (in 88 total minutes).
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
I like his chances of becoming a very good mid-range shooter....
He’s shooting 12.5% on 10-15 footers and 17% on 16-23 footers.
I’m not sure about those stats…. but according to Synergy Sports, he’s shooting 40% on spot up jumpers – 16-23 feet. The sample size is tiny (only 5 attepmts, and one of those was blocked)… but I watched all 5 on Synergy’s videos – He’s got excellent form on his jumper and if you leave him open, he will hit it. Both of his makes, he was wide open… On his misses, he was contested.
He’s shooting 67% from the Line – again with good form… and very much in line with his European stats… That’s not a bad percentage for a young big man, especially considering how hard a worker Kanter is…
No – I’ll stick by my original assertion that he’ll be an excellent pick-and-pop player…..
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
he'll always struggle to get his shot off because even at 19yrs old
He’s floorbound. He’s only going to get thicker and slower…that said he sure has a knack for rebounding and would certainly cleanup next to mcgee
by DCrez on Feb 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Completely agree
Everyone was banging on about moving up for Wiiliams and how he was worth the ludicrous asking price. I was like sd Williams!!! Give me Kanter for less!! He’s exactly what we need next to McGee.
The only saving grace is that we could end up with our stud big man this year instead. If we strike out again this year I’m going to cry.
by BballBrit on Feb 18, 2012 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Again only from memory
Can you tell I’m still pissed we didn’t find some way of moving up to draft him?
There was a way, the Wiz did their due diligence, Utah asked for far too much and the Wiz settled for the guy they wanted all along
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
True, this yrs 1st is too much but, they could have made a 3 team deal with the bucks, bobcats or Kings
All those teams were doing stuff and were clearly looking for action. Washington never was mentioned in those talks.
Maybe, instead of next yrs pick they could have gotten them 6, Crawford and and an upgrade from 12. Just an random scenario but you know what I mean.
The only thing we heard was that they were interested in Kanter before the draft, then nothing on draft night, then that they thought he was to expensive.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 19, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I didnt watch the game
but in the highlights they showed a clip of Crawford huddling the team up before a free throw. Is this something the team is doing now?
Chuckford really does us in sometimes doesnt he?
Al Jeff has torched every big in the league at one point or another, the only thing you can do is go back at him because he’s not a good defender and can get in foul trouble…the moment Craw comes in we stop going inside, all faux-MJ hero ball ugh
Not that we would have won otherwise but Craw didn’t do us any favors
by DCrez on Feb 18, 2012 12:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Drummond
Just got through watching the second half of Marquette vs. UConn, trying to see what Drummond could do. I say “trying” because he was nearly invisible before fouling out. There’s no way that he will be better than McGee next year, and I seriously doubt he will ever be better than McGee.
I was looking for something (anything!) that says Drummond will be a star in the NBA.
I saw nothing. He can’t even dominate players who are much smaller than him. What is he going to do when guys are his size or bigger? I hope this isn’t the player Ernie falls in love with.
I dont think he will come out
Drummond just looks like an all-star PF. Then he starts playing and he disappears on the court. He absolutely will benefit long-term from staying in school. He needs to learn to play basketball, and its hard to do that from the end of the bench on a pro team (I still contend 1-2 more full-time playing years in college for McGee and he is a top-5 pick and much better right now).
by Maroon and Black on Feb 18, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions
Went back and watched Kanter's first stint in the game, end of the 1st through much of the 2nd quarter.
I just didn’t see anything special. He does seem to have a nice touch from the line and nice form so I’m sure he can develop an outside shot if he doesn’t have one already.
It is of course very very early to make any judgments on his future.
But the problems I saw were that he has poor hands—fumbled the ball several times or had the ball easily poked away, and he plays way below the rim. He got blocked twice—once from behind by Crawford on a wide open dunk (that was mistakenly called a foul). Both Wall and Crawford easily scored right over him. Vesely stole two rebounds right over him that Kanter should have gotten.
I don’t think he’ll ever be able to create his own offense unless he emulates Jefferson, who has an otherworldly knack for the hoop.
I walk away unimpressed.
by MR on Feb 18, 2012 9:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Kanter against Nowitzki and Kaman
did you watch that one?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxApr0j8js&feature=related
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Sure. Let me show you some videos of Yi crushing everybody in international play.
I went ahead and watched Kanter’s other 8 minutes in the second half last night.
Again, I saw nothing special. This was my first time watching him.
Can anybody dig up a play or a series from this season in which he shows me why he’s going to be a great player? I have access to every NBA game. Or a youtube video of a great play in the NBA? I really just want to see a glimpse of why people think he’s going to be good. He must have had a minute or two stretch in which he flashed his future.
Its in Europe
I guess that makes a real difference. Against the Pacers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLbef6vRJ0&feature=related
The main thing to watch is how he uses his body.
by hambonejackson on Feb 18, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
That's a much better series. Thanks for sharing.
Didn’t see anything like that against the Wiz.
I’m still not sold, but at least it’s something.
Sadly, back to rehashing Kanter
who is not even on the team. So back to the Wizards. Vesely shooting the ball,
This is a YT that has him shooting the ball.Has to be worth money because it so rare. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9zhY-3ZKM
by hambonejackson on Feb 19, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
Would Utah take....
Vesely and Seraphin for Kanter?
Hell no. They know that they have a very good player.
2 skill-less athletes isn’t enough.
Maybe Singleton, Crawford, Booker and next years 1st would get them on the phone.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 19, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I did see two rebounds against the Wizards that were impressive...
Kanter can rebound in a crowd…. and he’s extremely strong.
I love it when a guy can go up in a crowd of opposing jerseys and come down with the basketball.
Rebounding is his elite NBA skill – and everything he does offensively is gravy.
He’s already shown that he belongs among the best rebounders in the league… He’s 8th in the League in rebounds per minute…
I could see him leading the League in rebounding at some point during his career.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Need minutes to lead the league
Big, slow guys with a knack for rebounding but who aren’t able to contribute much offensively or defensively don’t get heavy minutes. Guys like Aaron Gray and Jamaal Magloire are elite rebounders but don’t do much else. As a result, they’re minor role players who only get 10-20 minutes per game, depending on the matchup. What makes Kanter any different?
If his court vision improves, his low post game would be a great weapon and would earn him plenty of burn, but court vision rarely improves that much. You could double his assist rate (1.73) and still come up way short of the mark set by JaVale (4.21). Maybe he has potential to radically improve, because he’s still just starting to get used to playing real games again after a long time without real basketball?
If he develops a reliable J, that would help. His stroke looks good, and his FT% isn’t terrible. Call it a 50/50 chance. But if he’s floating around on the perimeter, his rebounding will take a hit. I don’t think he has the quickness to dart inside from the perimeter to grab offensive rebounds. Currently, a lot of his boards are at the offensive end. He’s 2nd in the league in offensive rebound rate, only 25th at the other end.
Can he become a good defender? I doubt his athleticism improves, but maybe his technique and awareness have a lot of room for improvement?
by yop32 on Feb 19, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Bullets Forever
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
- David West hilariously denies each and every one of his young fans a high-five (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Miami Heat are moving on to the conference finals
- Kevin Durant is tired of hearing about the Spurs
- The 10-man rotation, starring your Indiana Pacers
