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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Keep in mind a few things about this report:

1. Young can't be dealt until March 1.

2. He can veto any trade because he'd lose his Larry Bird Rights, which allow his team to exceed the cap to re-sign him. Of course, the prospect of playing for a playoff team may convince him to do that. It's been done before.

3. I'm sure Young is the kind of player teams are wary to give too much money to in the offseason.

4. It's still very early. Teams can get much more desperate as the deadline gets closer.

(HT: DavidDunn)

3 months ago Headshot_tiny Mike Prada 148 comments 0 recs  | 

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Blatche and Young

I’d trade both straight up for a button and some pocket lint. Just get them outta here so we can move forward…next up JaVale.

by mamorgan1 on Feb 13, 2012 11:57 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

Not worth it

You have to at least get a late first round for it to be worth it.

by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 13, 2012 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

Well, you can trade him for a pile of dirt and some lint...

or you can wait out the free agency period and if nobody offers him anything, sign him for $4 mill per. He was asking for some crazy numbers earlier this year and I’m pretty sure he won’t get anything near that.

N1 is a good player and his defense is underrated. I wouldn’t mind having him on our team as long as we don’t have to pay an arm and a leg for him.

by ZonkerBL on Feb 13, 2012 12:16 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Long term, Nick would be a real asset coming off the bench

Not a lot of guys in the league can create shots for themselves. Nick can.

by disgrunted on Feb 13, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I’d rather let him test the market and try to bring him back at a reasonable price. While below average as a starter, he’d be above average as a scorer off the bench.

A second round pick, on a rebuilding team this young, offers little to no value. At least Nick is a vet that knows what he’s doing on the floor. Yes, he doesn’t rebound, and he’s a shot taker, not a passer. But he spaces the floor, fills his role. doesn’t mess up the offense or defense or get in other’s way.

You can’t say that about Jordan Crawford. He might have some of the worst shot selection I’ve ever seen for a professional player getting real minutes.

by segastyle on Feb 13, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

This all assumes, of course, that Young will embrace/adapt to the role

Which is hard even for the most team-oriented players to do if they had been starting for two years.

by Mike Prada on Feb 13, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

True, but Free Agency Experience Might Help

He obviously didn’t get an offer he liked this past summer. His free agency experience this summer might be similar. He might find that teams will low-ball him, or nobody wants him as a starter.

If it comes down to low salary to come of the bench for a contender, or decent salary to come off the bench for a team he’s been with for a while, he’s at the age where salary might still hold weight. Plus, let’s be honest, for now, he’d still be our starter. There is no one on our roster taking that spot from him yet.

I doubt many teams can or will offer him as many minutes on the court as we could over the next few seasons.

by segastyle on Feb 13, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

to those guys, its about who's in front of them

and how the team is built. If he is being asked to come off the bench behind a guy he doesn’t respect it won’t work. If Miami asks him to come off the bench behind D Wade I think he falls in line. Or if the team tells him he will be coming off the bench but still getting minutes as a way to balance scoring, he should be OK with that. Even as I typed it I realized Nick likely won’t get that idea let alone embrace it.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

It comes down to the paycheck

As someone on SB Nation recently wrote, this is the era of the 6th man

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 13, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Heres why i dont think he fits even as a bench player

This is the second time Nick has been in a contract year situation, which we all know is code for, bust your ass mode and ball out like none other. Typically its the year of large gains in all your avgs across the board. He’s been given this opportunity twice now and we havent seen any of it. He even swore he’d take it out on the league…but no. And this is a guy that KNOWS its gonna take more rebounds/assist/hustle to get the contract he wants and still wont do it. Instead we find him cracking jokes on the sideline, postgame comments after poor performances that make it obvious that bad games dont bother him in the way you’d hope a competitor would take it. Why do you want a guy like that even coming off the bench, and the bigger question u gotta ask yourself, like Mike is saying. Is this a guy who has been trained under Gilbert ‘just get buckets’ church really accept a team first role.

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i dont understand why Nick always gets killed around here

if you added assists and rebounding to his scoring/shooting ability he’d be one of the top SGs in the league. The guy doesnt see the floor, it is what it is, but he has an elite shot and can check 2s and 3s….that’s a legitimate piece to any team at the right price. I mean nobody blames the rest of the team that they cant shoot for crap, yet Nick gets treated as if he doesnt get assists ON PURPOSE. To me it looks like he just has terrible court vision

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

he is def an asset on D, as long as its one on one

cuz he does get lost a lot and gets caught ball-watching. But as far as being offensively better with him. That doesnt really speak volumes when you have Shard,Blatche,Mcgee, as the other scoring options

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean, take a look

With Young, they’re getting outscored by seven points, without Young, it’s 14. Just means Young’s backups are even worse.

http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=705

by Mike Prada on Feb 13, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

whoops i read DCrez statement wrong

yeah that just speaks to how Craw is worse and he is. But there are things abt Nick Young that statistics wont tell you. And just because we trade/let Nick walk doesnt mean Craw inherits the starting 2

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

eh, the stats say it all about Nick

bereft of assists/rebs, high usage rate, super low TO rate, very good man defender, excellent shooter

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

it doesnt talk abt his disposition on the court

leadership, work eithic, basically they dont tell us abt all the things that make glue-guys so valuable in the NBA. Stats will never show the lvl of a guys commitment to winning or doing things the right way. In no way do i believe stats can you tell everything abt a basketball player

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Forget the glue guy thing

do stats tell u abt a player extending his hip out on screens to get the offensive player just a sliver more separation, do they tell u abt when the other team is in the penalty how much Nick forces the issue and tries to get to the rim and draw contact. (they might on that one, but somehow i doubt it). If stats told it all, then you should be able to predict who’s gonna win a game 99.9% of the time

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

i never said stats told all

i said Nick’s stats do, or at least they are in line with the player we know him to be.

btw, Nick has clearly been trying to get to the rim more this season…but folks call that selfish “me” basketball while at the same time saying he doesnt shoot enough FTs

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

PTS ON/OFF COURT?

If you have a large enough sample and properly adjust, then that is an approximation of everything not found in a boxscore. If you believe otherwise, then the argument goes these small things help win games, but without affecting the scoreboard. That seems absurd. If these little things do help, then they show up in a large enough sample of adjusted +/- data. Otherwise, you are attempting to measure things so tiny as to be useless.

by zeke5123 on Feb 13, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I mentioned this the other day, those 10-15 bad shots that NY, AB, JVM, and JC put up cost this team at least 10 points a game. And many games, that is the difference between the win or the loss.

It has to stop- one way or the other. All these coaches have been too patient with these kids in that regards.

Now the game JVM had yesterday is exactly what you want from him- most everything within 5 feet of the basket and a couple opps out to ten feet. He should score 15 points a game on sky hooks and lobs- every game!

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

this month Nick is averaging 20pts/43FG%/40%3PT

There is literally no other player on the team capable of that….i’m just saying letting him walk creates another hole, and if shooters are so easy to come by how come we only have one?

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

we only have one, cuz we keep giving the keys to NY and praying for the best

Honestly, Cartier Martin should be the starting 2 guard for this team as constructed

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

because we traded two for cash.

I like NY. He has to play within the offense. It is incumbent on the coach to make sure he is not rewarded when he doesnt

I think he could go or could have a spot on this team. Wall has to run the offense like he did. When he does that, then NY does great in his role. Wall has to be the leader on the floor. This team is like a bunch of puppy dogs, they all do what they want when there is no leader on the court. I think JW is realizing that. At least he should, yesterday was probably the best they have ever played together for a full game.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Poor shooting hurts a team in so many NON-subtle ways....

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on Feb 14, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i asked the question down below, but really how has Nick not worn out his welcome yet?

and he’s more than just a guy with bad court vision and horrible and entry passes down low. He is a black-hole, you pass him the ball and there is a 95% you just gave away that possession cuz the ball isnt going to anybody else.

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Then only give him the ball when you want him to shoot. It really is that simple. Put him out as the SF and park his ass behind the three point line.

Kick it out to him when there is a wide open three, which probably means there will be space to drive and take it to the rim or pull up.

It is NY’s fault for not playing within the offense. It is our fault to keep expecting him to. He could be a valuable component on this team, a team with more needs than picks or desire to spend in FA. So put him in position to ONLY play within the offense!

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

how so. taking bad shots that you have low odds of making severely limits the offense...doing it ten times a game as a team is losing basketball, obviously

SFs shoot the ball, cut to the basket, and dribble down open lanes to either pull up or finish at the rim

that is all we want from nick. his proper role on this team on offense is exactly what a three does.

He doesnt pass. He doesnt break people down off the dribble. if you double him, he jacks up a bad shot. None of that spells SG…sorry

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Biggest myth in sports

Contract year persists because of cognitive biases. We all remember that guy who had a career year and signed a mega-deal. We very rarely remember the contract year player who plays below or at his talent level. Why? They rarely sign outrageous contracts which remind us of their anomalous performance. Luck happens in sports. If a player is lucky enough to have a flukey season at the right time, then he can cash in big time.

by zeke5123 on Feb 13, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

great point

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Can't we still try to resign him?

( a bit tongue in cheek)

I wonder if that has ever happened….? Loaned someone out and then resigned him with an extra pick in the haul..

by DavidDunn on Feb 13, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Different sport

But I know the Orioles did that with Mike Bordick when they traded him to the Mets for Melvin Mora and some other guys. The O’s signed Bordick back that offseason. But that was because Bordick wanted to come back to Baltimore; I seriously doubt Nick would want to do something like this.

by jakenbake on Feb 13, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

the only chance we have to resign nick is if this team is winning games and he is happy with his role.

nothing about the city or the organization is keeping him here. he has to like the team, his role, and the money

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

interesting but not surprising

Nick’s biggest problem is when he takes it upon himself to force bad shots outside of the flow of the offense, usually long ones.

But he is a relatively good shooter, especially on our team.

He should be given some time at SF before we cut ties with him formally. It reduces the opportunities for him to force bad shots. He will be less a part of the offense and more camped out on the perimeter somewhere waiting to take that open look- what we do want him to do. And Mack and Wall should be the guards on the floor. Mack can shoot the three, and has the discipline to do so within the flow of the offense as well. JW can run the offense as beautifully as he did yesterday. Many teams in the league are rolling out two PG back courts. We should give it a try.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

There's no reason to keep him unless the team can S&T him over the summer.

Any pick is better than letting him walk for nothing, and as I recall the team didn’t really suffer when Nick missed games last season.

by djnnnou on Feb 13, 2012 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

Trading Blatche fo Thomas a bad move

I think it’s been discussed here plenty, but why bring in another long-term contract for Blatche when we could just amnesty him this summer? Getting nothing back is better than getting something you don’t want.

I’d rather rather have Booker and Vesely get as much time at the 4 spot this season as possible, and Seraphin as much time at backup 5 as possible. Give them all a chance to grow.

by segastyle on Feb 13, 2012 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

I was reading the comments on some Blatche-Thomas trade article and it’s sad that the bobcats are excited to have Blatche.

by Jordo on Feb 13, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the hat tip...BUT...I got it from the handy dandy Bullets Forever Twitter

widget on the side of from page….

I hereby renounce my Hat Tip and submit Jake Whitacre (who apparently got it from Kyle @ TAI) as the true heir to the hat tip throne…

by DavidDunn on Feb 13, 2012 12:39 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Late 1

I believe a late 1st round pick is entirely doable for Nick. Those teams often don’t want to add rookies on guaranteed contracts. We’re saving them money by taking the pick off their hands. Instead of them getting a few Mill near the draft should they want to sell, they get a key bench piece for a playoff run.

Nick is lower on the list than say, JR Smith. Once Smith finds a home, and that should come in a week or so, we’ll have a better idea of who might want to rent Nick.

Wiz already have their own #1, their own second and Dallas’ second. We don’t need another 2 from a contender. In the end I bet we end up with a late first (Boston and Houston have 2). With Indy, Philly, Chicago and Miami the most likely landing spots.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

On the trade...as I said in the other thread

the team will be tough to watch without Nick here….

it would be an auto double team on Wall every possession, and we would struggle to score any perimeter points consistently…

that probably shouldn’t enter the equation…but it just wouldn’t be fun basketball to watch…

and Jordan Crawford without a back up….????

Ok…that is a little dramatic (I just think the gif is funny)….but we would need to make sure JC stays within the system…he may actually play better knowing he had guaranteed minutes…

now…back to work….

by DavidDunn on Feb 13, 2012 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

Oh, and to add to the discussion

No more second rounders, please. We have enough projects.
Nick will walk unless nobody offers more than us. I don’t think his true value was evaluated in the last off-season, because perception was, the Wiz would match.
If NY asked the Wiz for an outlandish sum, maybe he wanted to make sure that he’d become an UFA just to get out of town and sign with a contender for way less than $9MM.
Swaggy P going back to Cali.

I like the Bullets

by K-Bro on Feb 13, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

ohmigod

I wonder if that cat survived. Great capture of the ultimate ‘oh shit’ moment. This is why you shouldn’t de-claw your cat.

by steadyhand on Feb 13, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I seriously couldn't stop laughing out loud

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree.

For development sake the Wizards need to surrond Wall with good enough players. Young is one of the few “good enough” players on this team.

by zeke5123 on Feb 13, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

agree

The question isn’t where Nick ranks on this team today, its whether we can add a better, more well-rounded player in his place.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 14, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Nick only good enough for a 2nd round pick....

if Nick looks at this site, he certainly will be taking that personally.

by thewiz06 on Feb 13, 2012 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Ok I will post something nicer about Nick... PS love the cat gif

Last time I looked, Nick Young was the leading scorer on an actual NBA team. Even when that team is 6-22, this achievement is not to be sneered at… try as often and as hard as the people on this site try to do.

If you run Nick’s numbers by (a) other #16 picks historically and (b) the 15 players picked ahead of him in his draft year, I think he stacks up pretty favorably.

As Rook continually points out, Nick has (despite the occasional lapse) put some discipline in his offense and plays credible defense. Will be be Ray Allen? Likely not. But he is better than any 2-guard on a large number of teams. And he has still not quite reached his plataeu.

I really hope the Wizards keep Nick on a reasonable deal. Perhaps he can hold down the starting 2-guard position for another year or two, and then recycle into a sixth man, in the Jamal (as opposed to Jordan) Crawford mold.

While it is true that the majority of QA players move on after their last season with their original team, at least two of them have stayed put.

If Nick continues to play decent ball, there is no reason why the Wizards still cannot offer him a new deal, especially if they want to focus on a big man in the 2012 draft.

by khrabb on Feb 13, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Nick could have been forcing UFA with an outrageous ask.

not impossible…if he really wants to leave…

or you could be right….

by DavidDunn on Feb 13, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Fit

Nick doesn’t pass, dribble, or rebound well. That’s a problem for us, but it’s an even bigger problem for teams that don’t have a PG in the mold of John Wall. Alongside Wall, he’s better than most other SGs. Alongside a PG without Wall’s gifts, he wouldn’t be nearly as effective.

One example: what would we do if we didn’t have Wall, and Mack was our starting PG? What would we do if an opponent decided to trap Mack every time down the court? Even if Mack could get the ball to a teammate, could Nick, JaVale, and two of our forwards get good looks, even going four on three? I think the only reason we haven’t had to face much trapping is because Wall’s combination of speed, size, passing, and ball handling makes him almost impossible to box in.

The lockout is another reason for the lack of offers. With the goofy FA signing period this year, nobody wanted to risk bidding on Nick and tying up their cap space or MLE, especially when the Wizards promised to match any reasonable offer.

Finally, I think Nick would have really struggled if he had changed teams. To get good value out of him, he needs to be heavily involved in the offense. Running around off screens, etc. But if he had changed teams, it would have been after missing most or all of training camp, and Nick isn’t exactly a savant when it comes to learning new offensive and defensive playbooks.

by yop32 on Feb 13, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I just don't understand the desire

to resign 2 pieces of our abysmal starting lineup. NY frankly doesn’t do anything but put the ball in the hoop, which is a pretty standard feature of non-wizards SGs…and he obviously doesn’t value winning like most players on good teams do, nor does he seem excited about a future team-first bench roll.

by Maroon and Black on Feb 14, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

all he does is score touchdowns?

putting the ball in the hoop is the one skill this team lacks more than any other

by DCrez on Feb 14, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta come to an agreement to have a signed offer

If he was asking $9M as was rumored, someone could potentially have offered him $7M or even $8M and been rejected. Especially if it wasn’t an LA team. He probably figured he could play his way into a big payday this year. Might happen too…he’s been averaging about 20ppg since the slow start. More likely he’ll end up with something around $7M per, but I’d have done the same thing in his shoes.

by steadyhand on Feb 13, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

thats too much for nick

mike miller, who actually is a good rebounder, is making 5.4 million and shoots north of 50% from three

kyle korver makes 5 million and is a better shooter.

when this team is better, NY wont be averaging 17 points a game. you have to sign him to his slot or let him go because…and this is important…we are not winning with NY putting up 17 a game.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 14, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Plus, I think Nick rather took the QO and try again next yr, instead of settling for less than he wanted now

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:45 AM EST up reply actions  

ok, but that role is an off the bench specialist, not a starter- which is the more important point

regardless if he is better defensively. he is worse as a passer and doesnt rebound

that stuff washes out. korver shoots over 50% from three. one in two is a big difference from one in three by about five points a game

its the role of selective gunner that determines his pay range. and that is what he is right now. that was more my point.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 14, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You're talking about pure spot-up shooters

Nick can do that, but can also beat most defenders one-on-one, whereas you never really want the guys you mentioned trying that. On a team with more threats I think he actually becomes a more efficient scorer because he won’t be doubled and would put up fairly similar totals more efficiently (a second banana to a great scorer or one of three good scorers in a starting unit). He’s also a better defender than those guys.

by steadyhand on Feb 14, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd round pick

Nick is a useful basketball player. Perhaps he’s slightly below average for a starter, but he’s not awful. He’d start on at least 10 teams in this league, if not more. I think his defense is consistently underrated. He leads the team in defensive on/off differential, and his counterpart PER is a mind-bogglingly low 9.3. He’s also the only player on the team who can score with decent volume and efficiency.

The team would be much worse without him, and there’s nobody in the pipeline to replace him. If Young is gone, we’d have to overpay for a veteran free agent to replace him, or we’d have to use our draft pick on a shooting guard.

If all that’s being offered is a 2nd rounder, I say keep him. I’d rather have a shot at resigning him next year for a reasonable price. We don’t need any more young role players anyhow (which is all you can usually find in the 2nd round).

Don’t get me wrong. I recognize that he is a flawed player. Ideally, we resign him on a cheap contract and then eventually find a starting SG to push Nick onto the 2nd unit as our backup SG and SF.

by nate33 on Feb 13, 2012 1:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

was i banned or something?

It wouldn’t let me comment all day yesterday or today till now? Then I got a email saying to hit OK to join and “IV now been warned” but nothing else

by no more kwame's in dc on Feb 13, 2012 1:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Letting Nick go shouldn't be construed as a long term commitment to JC

It should just be seen as moving forward. And JC could very well be the next guy to go. Ppl shouldnt think that Nick being shipped out is a message that JC is better. It should just say that Nick has worn out his welcome and we know what he’s about in terms of work ethic, disposition, basketball play, etc by now and its not what we wanna pay 4mil + for

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 2:05 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

"worn out his welcome" sounds like a villification of the player

that’s what i dont get, Nick is closer to being the only reason we win any games than he is to being the reason we lose.

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So you wanna continue to give Nick the benefit of the doubt again...and again

and then some more? This is a guy who on his watch (but not single handedly) has started on a team that struggles year in and year out to break 20 wins. And speaking of being the reason we win more than we lose, that TOR home game was pretty interesting, esp when Nick had the GW opportunity and had a 1on1 and got his shot blocked of all things. And really tho, aside from it “sounding” dirty or mean, how has he not worn out his welcome?

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i am not giving him the benefit of the doubt

I am saying that a very good man defender who has an elite stroke and can create his own shot with a defense focused on him is a legit nba player and someone worth having on the team. I am NOT saying keep him at all costs or that he is key to something, I am saying he’s not a bad player and that letting him walk creates a hole that has to be addressed at the expense of another need.

by DCrez on Feb 13, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is his man defending has really trailed off the last week

as his shooting % has come up. To make Nick worth even six million a year, you need him to bring that type of effort to both ends of the court, each and every time. Like last year before he was hurt. This year, you seem to get one or the other.

The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.

by Sean Fagan on Feb 13, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You want to denigrate Nick Young because he's playing on a crappy team?

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on Feb 14, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

"Worn out his welcome"

is probably an overstatement. I agree with you. AB was worn out his welcome. From what I’ve seen, fans are cautiously optimistic that Nick Young can be better.

by GJennings on Feb 13, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

this is an important point

Whenever we get started talking about players not being good enough someone points out that (insert the next guy in line) is a D League talent, scrub, project etc.

I (figuratively) speak in terms of building a playoff team, one that will win more than one series in a decade. Just because I say Blatche isn’t good enough, or we need to let Nick walk, thats not implying Crawford will be better or even start. It means the position must be upgraded beyond NY/Blatche etc.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Why even read that story?

This story by Hanrahan is worthless. The most important thing about trading Nick is that he can control what happens. He says the Wizards should do this or that is useless because the Wizards can’t do anything without Nick saying OK. This story should be written from the perspective of what Nick should do. And trading Blatche is old news. 90% of the fan base wants him gone. And Hanrahan suggesting that the Bobcats might take Blatche because MJ once drafted Kwame Brown is just ridiculous.

by Kryp on Feb 13, 2012 2:22 PM EST reply actions  

as is

the idea that Tyrus and that contract is a no-brainer for the Wizards. Honestly believe Blatche will be a Wizard through next year to this time. He’ll be slightly more palatable at next year’s deadline. Especially true if he turns himself into a scoring reserve C. I don’t think Ted will eat over 20M for him, but 14ish after next season? Possible.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Trading Blatche for Thomas is a horrible idea

but not amnestying Blatche and keep him around for next year is even more turrible imho.

I really feel amnestying him is the best thing for the team. It get’s rid of a cancer without taking on another bad player. The only problem is, it will cost Ted. Ted isn’t one to let a the good of the team get in his way of his wallet.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Odd judgment...
Ted isn’t one to let a the good of the team get in his way of his wallet.

What are you basing that on? I haven’t seen Ted do anything obviously stingy. He’s pretty much just following his plan.

by steadyhand on Feb 14, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I base that on

Ted not completely cleaning the house by firing the Ernie and his FO and Flip and his staff. They are both clearly bad fits and many people (including me) we’re wondering why Ted didn’t clean the house when he had the chance.

He also didnot want to waive Arenas and eat his contract. Instead he traded it away for a shorter one that is now hindering our team.

If you don’t plan to pay NY and didn’t use your lottery pick to replace him, than you need to find the long term awnser in FA. They did not do this.

If you have young talent and developing them is your goal, than you hire specialist coaches, you get them personal assistants and nutricionist etc ánd you invest in a D league affiliate of your own that has the same playbook as the bigleague team etc etc.

He was also one of the hardliners in the lockout, publically only commenting on the system issues but still.

These things are not hard evidence and I know that. I even e-mailed him to ask him about the above point’s. I said that I wondered why he didn’t do those things and that I was worried if money was the awnser. He did not reply…

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot about the biggest thing I base this on

Ow, and he is rambling on and on and on about his ticketsales numbers all the time while the real issue is, he is selling a god awfull product. The ticket numbers are just his primary focus it seems. The quality of the team seems to be a means to push ticket sales and since the product sucks he is playing the ‘promise of a great future’ card, trying to get people to buy cheap now for 3 yrs and have a bargain priced ST when the teams get’s good.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Nick or 2nd rounder

This is a no brainer.
What will you get in the 2nd round that’s GUARANTEED better than Nick?

by VBfan on Feb 13, 2012 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

That's not the question

Nick could leave after this season. If he does, we get nothing. The question is, given how little the compensation is, would you just let him walk?

I think his value will go up. But, 2nd rounder can be decent role players. AB and Mack were both 2nd rounders.

by GJennings on Feb 13, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Make him a reasonable offer

I don’t think he’ll have a lot of options.

At least you know what you’re getting.
Yeah, he’s not perfect but I’d rather pay him than throw the dice in the 2nd round.

by VBfan on Feb 13, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

we can do both

Trade him for a late first round pick and offer him 4 years 24M once he’s free.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a 2nd rounder?

I’m not a huge Nick Young fan. I think he does several things well, shooting and perimeter defense being the big two. He does have some significant red flags, terrible rebounder, tunnel vision, and inconsistent effort. Taking McGee’s side in the “should i showboat when I’m losing” controversy hurt him as well.

Nevertheless, I have to think he’s worth at least a late first round and some cash. A 2nd round pick from a playoff team is way too low. I think his value is deprecated partially by JR Smith’s free agency.

I get the idea that you have to take something over nothing. But, I have to assume his value will go up a little.

by GJennings on Feb 13, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

The main problem with Nick Young

Is that he just refuses to let his game evolve. He is 1-dimentional scorer either by taking open shot, or through one on one play. He does not have good court vision and does not look for other players when he has nothing going on the offensive end. His defense if ok, but does not fill up a stat sheet with anything except points and a low shooting percentage. He is they type of player in which plays have to be specifically run for him, of course this would involve him to actually move around to find an open spot on the floor. This is, again, I fail to see him do on a consistent basis. Seems like all he wants to do is take jumpshots or try and take his man off the dribble. That is just not going to cut it here or anywhere else!

by TheRealBigMike on Feb 13, 2012 3:29 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

I'm not really offering anything new, but

My problem with Young is his (lack of) rebounding and distribution. I don’t think the problem is his head — I’ve been relatively pleased with his decision making this year (with a few exceptions).

Young has a sweet jumper. He’s a ok or better on-ball defender. But he just doesn’t rebound, and he can’t pass. These things are problems, even for a player whose job it is to finish possessions with jumpers.

Look at Ray Allen: he is a shooter by trade, but if the defense overextends to deny him a clean look, he’s a good enough passer to swing the ball and make them pay. If Young never learns to do that, he’ll always be of limited utility no matter how good his jumper is (and it’s very, very good). Likewise, the defense can’t suck 10-15 seconds off the shot clock by doubling Allen. I’ve seen a bunch of Wizards possession completely derailed because Young had to be rescued from ball pressure that 90% of NBA shooting guards can handle easily.

Finally, the rebounding — I enjoy stat padding for Wall as much as the next guy, but if he’s forced to pull back to yank defensive boards that his SG could be getting, he’s starting a potential fast break later and further back than he should. And it’s not like the Wizards are exactly killing it on the defensive boards these days.

Young is old enough that I’m not sure these things are correctable. He’s a fine player, and could have a good role on the right team, but I don’t want to see the Wizards commit to him as a long term solution at one of the guard slots.

by obeast on Feb 13, 2012 3:48 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

This is a silly excercise- someone probably had a column deadline

NY has no contract in three months right now. No team will give up more than a second round pick for someone not under contract.

So what if he does a sign and trade? What is he worth then? Well, that will depend on the terms of the contract. If he signs a max contract, which for him would be around $14-15mm per year, he is worth no draft picks. If he signs for the minumum wage, say a 4-5 year deal for under a million a season, then he would be worth a first round draft pick for a team above the salary cap because he offers a lot of value to them: proven better than average shooter in the NBA, doesnt turn the ball over much, plays decent defense, and cheap.

Bottom line, his trade value is determined by his play and his pay. And waiting until two months before he is an unrestricted free agent is waiting too long to trade him for anything.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

that was mentioned in the article, I think

the author was arguing that the Wizards should try to get something for Young while they still have him, and noting that that something was not very much.

I suppose it would have been kinder to note that much of the low demand was based on his expiring contract and not his game.

by obeast on Feb 13, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Young's role in the NBA is to park his ass on the perimeter waiting for someone to draw his coverage away from him so he can take an open shot

Using him in any other capacity on offense is wrong and poor coaching. It is that simple. Since we dont have a SF that can consistently hit an open three, and we do have another guard that does (Mack), then he should play SF for us. Let John break down the defense primarily and kick it out to those two on the perimeter if he can not pass it to an open big in the lane.

Basketball is a simple game. No need to overcomplicate things when you are not winning consistently.

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

of course JW's third option is to finish it himself.

Some version of that is how every offense in the NBA is run except ours: we allows our poor decision making SG control the ball and as you might expect, heist up bad shots regularly.

It’s part of our #1 problem on offense: too little inside scoring is compounded by too many bad outside shots

by les boulez bomber on Feb 13, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Even a 2nd round pick and cash is better than letting him walk for nothing

Nick is a bench player. The problem is a team will probably offer him more than he deserves.

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Feb 13, 2012 4:26 PM EST reply actions  

Rebounding is also about technique and scheme

If a player leaks out a lot by design, his rebound total might be lower. It also requires studying what type of rebound various shots produce. Dennis Rodman was a master at scouting for rebounds. It’s too bad he has so many character issues, because if any of our bigs had 1/10 of his understanding of that phase of the game, they’d be 10 times better.

Regarding Nick, I wouldn’t place it all on effort. I think that Nick Young has a toughness/intensity issue that you need to be great at rebounding.

by GJennings on Feb 13, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He does have a nice appartment.

At least not as obnoxious for a multi millionaire. Just a regular 26 yr old dude’s condo.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it is a house....I think the pic was from this summer in LA

remember the channel 4 story when he backed his truck into something…I remember him coming out of a driveway…?

by DavidDunn on Feb 14, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't live in the USA

So I don’t have channel 4. I do remember that incident though. You could be right.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

when's the last time

you saw Nick look for contact? He doesn’t want to get bumped when it could get him an extra point for the night. He sure as heck isn’t going in for a board just to get the ball back.

Add it to the list of things he can do “when he wants to” that he never wants to do.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Nick is extremely lacking in toughness. Boxing training would definitely benefit him.

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Feb 13, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Letting NY walk or even for a 2nd rounder is such a joke.

we are already the laughing stock of the league and now we have this…. lets extend Blatche but Nick is worth next to nothing

by koop1122 on Feb 13, 2012 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

I hear ya, Blatche contract is a travesty

but if im understanding this correctly, since we gave Blatche a crazy contract, we need to do the same for Nick? or at the very least extend him…..because he is a better player than Andray Blatche?

by KurisuDevil on Feb 13, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

No

we need to do better than a 2nd rounder… Nick has value but b/c we are a bad team and have a shit front office teams are going to bluff and throw out there that Nick is no better than a second round pick. That’s complete BS… the guy is capable of averaging 20 a game and can guard good 2’s around the league. I would of liked to keep Nick for cheaper but that’s not going to happen so he’ll get a decent deal next summer but if we just let him walk for nothing than that is a travesty.

by koop1122 on Feb 13, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Same thing with McGee

He ain’t under contract for 2 months and if the Wizards are actively trying to trade him, they send out the message that they don’t wanna re-sign him, so they are not going to match a good offer.

People seem to think we can get good value in a sign and trade for McGee and Young but that isn’t true at all. Look at what Cleveland and Toronto got for Bosh and Bron.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 5:53 AM EST up reply actions  

right. ernie is all in with mcgee. there is no replacement on the roster, maybe not any in the draft if drummond stays, and it is near impossible to grab a young promising one in FA

thats a big reason he effed up with JV pick . it almost forces him to keep either AB or JVM. someone has to play center and its not seraphin and turiaf is injury prone

by les boulez bomber on Feb 14, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

those trades aren't indicative of market value

they are what Cleveland and Toronto were willing to accept in return because it also helped them cap wise. They were losing those players whether they did a S+T or not.

If we’re comparing star trades we have Melo and Deron to review.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 14, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Those arent sign and trades though

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

but mcgee can receive the QO. and if you offer that, you can lock him up if he signs away

so mcgee is good for a year if you trade for him today. NY really is on a two month contract at this point- UFA

by les boulez bomber on Feb 14, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So lock up the top scorer on a horrid team

instead of trying to get MUCH better?

and when did 27 Mil over 4 years, or 32 over 5 become next to nothing?

Part of what needs to change about this team is the entitlement and the culture. Nick and Dray are a huge part of that. Personally I think Javale is salvageable. He needs a mentor though, not a cheerleader.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 13, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

And I disagree strongly that letting NY walk for nothing is getting MUCH better

just creates another huge hole by getting rid of a player that contributes the most at what we lack the most

and if you think this is clearing up cap space to sign a FA… it’s not going to happen. We are not getting any 2 guard that is as good or better than Nick. Eric Gordon or whoever will not want to come here

by koop1122 on Feb 13, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Locking up shitty players

who get good stats (mainly good points) on awful teams is how you stay awful. SOMEONE has to get the points, even if its in a manner that most teams would immediately bench the player for.

by Maroon and Black on Feb 14, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

we only have a huge hole because ernie put together an imbalanced roster and has no foresight

neither which are reasons to pay more than fair price for NY. You can not pay for anyone when you are not winning

by les boulez bomber on Feb 14, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

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