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Misusing Vesely

A lot of people have been down on Vesely but I still like his potential. He’s 7 ft and moves like gizelle out there. My problem is this: The coaches refuse to put him at his REAL position: 3! He’s not a 4. He’ll never be a 4. Vs. the heat they played him at 5! He wasn’t a 4 in Serbia, He wasn’t a 4 in Euroleauge. Sure he can’t shoot yet and we’re overloaded at 3’s but HE NEEDS TO BE ON THE WING. These pick and rolls just aren’t his game. I feel we’re just stunting his growth. Go back and watch any partisan games such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvrLlx1KDLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXZy0vxQ0qc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6YFoWiU5bI

And you’ll see such a different vesely. His skills are defending smaller players w/his quickness and PLAYING HELP DEFENSE because he has such a unique ability to recover w/his length. Offensively, he’s designed for the wing. He has a quick pump fake and first step. They need to groom him at the 3 and refine his jumper.

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

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Ruffin was a better free throw shooter . . .

of course, let’s hope that’s a joke, even if the percentages right now are more favorable to Ruffin.

Your analysis is spot on though. If Vesely bulked up, he’d have a higher ceiling than Ruffin, based on his length. But still, he wasn’t drafted as the next Michael Ruffin.

Fortunately, Vesely is young and just getting his start in the league. Odds are that he will be a much better player in a couple years than he is right now.

by Vegas010 on Feb 12, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree about the shooting;but Veseley is a 3

The problem is, there wouldn’t be playtime at that position. I have to commend the coaching staff, the bball iq raises when he and Booker enter the game.Once he gets a jumper (or enough confidence to take one) he’ll be special.In the meantime, we will need to rent 2 positions next year for approximately 3 years.

by Kevin Biscoe on Feb 11, 2012 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

He's a 3 that can't shoot.

Which mean he has no place in the NBA unless he becomes a 4 or a 5. Frankly, his shooting isn’t even good enough to play 4.

by nate33 on Feb 11, 2012 3:36 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

"refine his jumper"

NGUOD and Biscoe,
This is not a matter of refining or of “confidence.” This guy cannot shoot a lay-up or a free throw.
Many players improve their shot a bit. Very few improve dramatically. Mostly, guys who come into the NBA as shooters remain shooters. Those who are not are not. Jared Jeffries would have been a great player if he could have “refined” his jumper.
Can you guys name a single player who came into the league even nearly as poor a shooter as Veseley who became good enough to be a full-time 3?

by jmuravchik on Feb 11, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah with a shot as bad as his

He will be a self check anytime he ventures outside of 8-10 feet, forever. His shooting %s (and the “does his shot appear like it could ever get better” eye test) are so awful that even with an AMAZING increase through a few years of hard work, he would still be a horrendous shooter.

Best case for Jan, he develops into a very good backup defensive specialist/energy at the 4. Worst case, he stays this bad and is back in Europe in the 13-14 season. He looks good in those videos because in a lower league, being 7foot and graceful means you can be effective.

by Maroon and Black on Feb 11, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

um..

scotty pippen… http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html
clifford robinson

Robert horry shot under 30% 3pt his rookie year
….

the diffference is all those players got to improve at their natural positions.

“: Chris Webber and Karl Malone. Webber improved his free throw shooting from a woeful 45.4-percent during 1998-99 to 75.1-percent in 1999-00. Malone shot 48.1-percent during his rookie season, but climbed to 70-percent during his third year in the NBA. Both players only dipped below 70 percent once for the remainder of their careers — pretty damn impressive. Obviously, these are best-case examples, but serve to illustrate that poor free throw shooting is correctable.” truthaboutit.net

vesely 3 pt shooting:
2011 partizan: 13 of 31 3-pointers in 21 games
2010 31 of 98 (32%) attempts in 68 games

I’ve definately seen worse for a guy taking 1.5 threes/game

im not saying he’s a good shooter by any means, but how do u know he can’t shoot if he hasn’t shot from the outside? have you seen him shoot cuz i havn’t.

Its a lot more likely he can become an effective 3 with an improved jumper than morphing into a 4. Its obvoius he’s not comfortable at the 4, and what he’ll give us gaurding 3’s /help defense and running the floor will supplement his poor shooting. At 3 he’s gaurding the wing more, and able to run on the fast break a lot more. plus he’s not a rebounder lets be honest. UNLEASH JAN at the wing. last note: other than mo evans our other 3s: booker, lewis (hurrendous lewis) can’t shoot either.

by NotGivinUpOnDray on Feb 11, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

if Webber's 45%FT was woeful, what does that make Ves' 25% rate?

Jan is exactly the same player he was with Partizan, his problem is he’s now surrounded by nba athletes.

by DCrez on Feb 12, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Look at his euro stats


this is 9 free throws into this season. He’s much better than the 25% you claim. Like over twice as good.

by Llamaman on Feb 13, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

whoohoo!

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 13, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Watched a bunch of Partizan games during the summer

Simplest way I can put it is that I completely agree. Vesely doesn’t seem comfortable out there and I want to see him at his most natural position, SF.

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Feb 12, 2012 12:52 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I agree

He’s a SF. But the Wizards really need tgo make him develop that turnaround jumper. He could become a monster if he develops that turnaround jumper because he would be a huge mismatch shooting over smaller defenders.

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Feb 12, 2012 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

Old adage goes

you are the position you defend. So that makes him what exactly? Not a 3. More of a reserve Threefour.

I agree Vesely should be in space, moving without the ball more instead of setting screens all the time. Beyond that his value is his hustle and guile.

by Jheiser3 on Feb 12, 2012 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

Well, he can guard 3's to be fair

His lateral quickness, quick hands and athleticism allow him to stay infront of smaller guys and his lenght makes it tough to shoot over him.

Although he lacks the ball handling and shooting for a SF, he has the speed and first step for a 1-dribble-blow-by to the basket if he has a lane. He also moves off the ball alot to help facilitate ball movement by creating space for others ánd for cuts to the basket. He also can also run the floor and finish the on the break, but you have to let him leak out a bit, instead of placing him in the paint to grab a defensive rebound (which he doesn’t do well anyway).

So yes, he cán play SF and yes he is being miss-used currently. I don’t know if that’s on Whittman though, I heard Ernie say he thought Jan could play a little C…….. We just have the worst basketball people ever.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 12, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

If he does the above well, he is not a complete waste of a pick, though he would still be far to limited to qualify as building block imho.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 12, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

This whole thread is a joke

I don’t care what Vesely’s best position is. The bottom line is that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to play him at SF when our PG is Wall and our PF is Booker. IT WON’T WORK! That’s all there is to it. You can’t run an NBA offense without spacing.

If you want to play Vesely at SF, fine. But first, we need to trade Booker for somebody like Ryan Anderson. Otherwise, it’s just a pipe dream.

by nate33 on Feb 12, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions   3 recs

Spacing is essential

But don’t count Booker out yet. In the last few games, he has started to show a willingness to shoot from outside. They’re not dropping at a high percentage yet, but if he can maintain his confidence, good results will start to show.

We knew that our crop of young forwards lacked outside shooting. (We didn’t know that our veteran forwards, Blatche and Lewis, also lacked shooting touch. Sigh.) We stockpiled a bunch of hard working young forwards and hoped that at least some of them would develop a solid outside shot. Singleton looked better than expected early. Booker is starting to show promise now. This season has been miserable, but it’s too soon to write our guys off.

by yop32 on Feb 12, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

c'mon

he played very well last night vs. detroit. did a lot of nice things. Objectively I think he has more potential than people thnk.

by NotGivinUpOnDray on Feb 13, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he meant to say he is not skilled. He hustles, ill give him that.

But most of his points and rebounds come as the result of him being 6’10" and athletic. For the 6th pick of the draft he cant do a whole lot besides run and chew gum at the same time.

by tw10 on Feb 16, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

still....

you can only say he is an acceptable bench player on the Wizards.

by isum on Feb 16, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

In Februari he is averaging 3 and 3 in 15 minutes

Less than an assist, steal and block as well. A PER of 7……

That’s way to little production to say he has played well. He has played better, yes, but even then, he is still pretty bad. Add in that he is our price rookie taken #6 overall and supposed to be a buildingblock and you can’t serously be satisfied.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

i never said the guy doesnt belong in the nba

he is almost 7’ tall and very active defensively, hustles all the time, makes plays here and there….but imho that is a dleague skillset not lottery pick. DLeague skillset in lottery pick’s body? That may best describe it for me

by DCrez on Feb 16, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

To play Jan at the 3

You would need a dead-eye SG, and a PF like Kevin Love or Anderson who are 40ish% mid and long range shooters. Then maybe you could see added benefit of having a guy like Wallace who can only slash in….but without the handle neccesary on Jan I don’t think that line-up is worth anything.

I still think his best bet is to add weight and BECOME a 4, instead of a non-NBA caliber 3.

by Maroon and Black on Feb 12, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

right now he is a freakishly athletic version of D-Mac.

by thewiz06 on Feb 12, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

My biggest issue with Vesely is just not understanding what his role is

I get it that he can’t shoot, but you have to develop him towards something. We can’t just stick him at a 4 now and then turn him into a 3 later. This is the problem with this pick. He could have benefited from a year in the D-league or even not playing him or how about not even picking him. But because he’s a 6th pick, you pretty much have no choice but to play him and he simply isn’t ready to play his natural position. This is an indictment on Ernie. There were plenty of player in the draft that can play the 3 and that can hit a jumper.

by ThePGPhenomenon on Feb 12, 2012 9:53 PM EST reply actions  

I would put him in the D league to learn how to play the 4 if that's where you want to use him

For this very reason having your own affiliated team is beneficial. A coachingstaff who teaches the same roles and playbook as the bigleague team and serves as an extension of your coachingstaff is a must imho if ‘player development’ is a priority.

I think Ted’s 10 point plan says something along the lines of drafting young talent and then focussing on developing that young talent. Well Ted, put your money where your mouth is then!

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 13, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Ofcourse, playing him at the 4 would be a mistake to begin with imo

but you get the point

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 13, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Ves did play effectively on the wing in Europe, but he's far from it here

In his time at Partizan, Vesely used his athleticism and IQ to be effective, especially on the defensive end. Most of his points came of cuts and assists (kind of like how they have here). But the NBA is a different ball game. Most solid 3’s in this league need to be able to be offensive weapons; creating and making shots is a key skill. Vesely, while being a solid defender and a great hustle and energy player, is terrible at creating and making his own shots. Putting him out on the wing and asking him to be a shooter would be disastrous. Right now he’s a tweener, without the perimeter skill set to be an effective NBA 3 best coming off the bench like he is now.

by Ron Carlos Jeines on Feb 13, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions  

I noticed this too

Last night seemed like we saw a lot of Booker + Jan at stretches with JVM on the bench. If he adds muscle and and sort of offensive moves inside 10 ft Jan could conceivably play a lot of different roles off the bench

by Maroon and Black on Feb 15, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Booker was on Monroe

which honestly seems foolish to me, but that’s how Randy played it.

by DCrez on Feb 15, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Just like as it was foolish to put booker on Griffin or Millsap

Most starting PF’s are 6’9 or taller. Booker is 6’7 with shoes on. That means that asking Book to stop any starting caliber PF with an solid offensive game (i.e. not Ed Davis or Chris Humprhies Jerebko ) is too much to ask of him imho.

In situational matchup’s or when we need an energy plug off the bench, Booker is great. He just isn’t a starter imho.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Booker did well against Griffin and Monroe

He didn’t shut them down, obviously, but he played them tough enough to give us a chance to win. That’s pretty damn good for a second year 23rd pick.

He has basically the same physical measurements as Millsap, so we’ll see how it goes.

By the way, Booker’s standing reach is better than both Griffin and Millsap, according to the official predraft measurements at DraftExpress.

Also, two words: Wes Unseld.

by yop32 on Feb 16, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

You are right that his wingspan is significant in this respect.

But to say he did well against Griffin and Monroe? They both scored 150% of their season averages….. I also question his P&R defense sometimes.

He isn’t bad, and he hopefulle one day play good enough consistantly and become a starter.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 16, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

You do your best, but sometimes stuff happens.

Booker pushed both Griffin and Monroe off their sweet spots. That’s pretty much everything you can hope for, and usually that will be enough. Unfortunately, not in this case.

Booker kept Griffin shooting 5-10 ft shots with a hand in his face instead of the 2-4 ft shots he wants to take. Unfortunately, a lot of those shots fell last night.

Booker did the same with Monroe, and held him below his season average FG%. Unfortunately, Monroe went 9-for-9 from the FT line.

by yop32 on Feb 16, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont think he affected Monroe much

however he is tailor made for checking Blake, if not for the refs assistance i’m not sure Blake would have any success vs Book

by DCrez on Feb 16, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

id say booker did fantastic

Against Griffin last night, didnt watch as much of the Monroe matchup

by Maroon and Black on Feb 16, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

He can play centre when the matchup is right for short stretches

Can’t imagine him going against Dwight, Bynum, Perkins……

by isum on Feb 16, 2012 2:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Can’t imagine him consistantly stopping Dirk, Amare, Millsap or even Jamison and Andray Blatche

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

From the man himself
On his future at the SF or PF, practicing shooting threes & basketball video games:

“I like the 3 position, but I don’t feel bad at the 4. I’ve got a long career ahead of me in which I can work on shooting 3s. I play video games, but I play soccer more.”

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Feb 16, 2012 11:37 PM EST reply actions  

I like his confidence..

but I don’t see him shooting 3s at any acceptable %. Not until he can shoot at the FT line.

And the part about video games and soccer – Jan, are you serious now?

by isum on Feb 17, 2012 4:51 AM EST up reply actions  

That wasnt where I was going

I, and many others, always thought the SF position was his natural position and where he felt comfortable. Him saying it was just confirmation.

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Feb 17, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

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