Wizards Fall to Orlando Magic: This One Falls Squarely on the Starters
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 9:41 PM EST
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PrintSite Note: I try not to criticize the zebras as a rule, because I believe that in 98% of NBA games, the team which plays better gets the win. However, it should be noted that tonight's game was a travesty of officiating, in which the Dwight Howard received "Dwyane Wade '06" treatment." It is games like this that infuriate fans, and only adds fuel to the fire that NBA has a strict divide between the "haves" and "have nots."
I'm sure that somewhere out there, Ernie Grunfeld is lighting up a nice cigar, pouring himself a scotch, and murmuring to himself "I told you Sean Fagan, I told you about my drafting prowess. How dare you challenge my international scouting prowess?"
How dare I indeed.
Tonight, Kevin Seraphin revealed a large part of the high hopes the Wizards FO holds for the second year player. The lovingly nicknamed "Manbearpig" mixed it up with Dwight Howard, boarded like a monster, and even demonstrated a nice little two man game with a resurrected Jordan Crawford. In fact, the entire Wizards bench mob played out of their minds on evening, providing a majority of the scoring, showing a propensity towards passing the ball, and hounded the Magic (with the noted exception of Ryan Anderson) into taking forced jumpers.
So yes, unleash the manbearpig.
(End positive pixels.)
Wicked pixel warning ahead.
The flip side of this is that the three key starters for the Wizards (Wall/McGee/Young) played exceedingly poorly in almost every facet of the game. Except for a brief flurry by Wall towards the end in which he scored a layup, hounded Turkoglu, and then found Lewis on a corner three, it was rather a quiet night for the second year starter. Worse still, Wall seemed to be playing at half speed for most of the game and appeared to be visibly detached during the third quarter when the Wizards needed him the most.
Young and McGee for their parts also put in terrible days at the office. Young completely blew up in the 4th quarter, but its hard to excuse his breaking the offense in the 1st three quarters of the game.
I will be less harsh on McGee, because some of the fouls that were called on him for guarding Dwight Howard were borderline unbelievable. However, he completely shrank from his matchup with Howard (one again) and made the same repeated errors that necessitate his immediate benching. I'm sure that we will see a resurgent McGee against a weak Toronto frontline, but tonight was a gutcheck where McGee failed to step up.
In the end, you have to question Randy Wittman's decision to leave Booker, Seraphin and Crawford out of the game as long as he did in the fourth quarter. Accountability was the hallmark of the 1st half, I am unsure as to why that didn't carry over to the second.
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Good Effort by Seraphin, Crawford, Booker, and Mack
As a group, the starters had one of their worst games of the season. The bench kept them competitive and one has to be heartened tonight by their production. Randy Wittman is sticking to his stated objective of playing the most productive players.
Seraphin showed me something tonight. He can be a very capable back up to McGee. When more disciplined, Crawford can be an effective player. Booker is all hustle and scores most of his points that way. Mack simply is a calming influence and makes few unforced errors.
All in all, several encouraging signs in this loss. 
To be or not to be
by JekyllnHyde on Feb 1, 2012 9:43 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
From the earlier thread.
Site editors,
In lieu of tonight’s horrible referring performance, I politely ask for a "Wizards Win" recap. I think it’s only fair that the free throw disparity be accurately shown in the form of jest and goodwill to the incredible performance by the Washington Wizards.
Sincerely,
Craig
One thing I noticed
is how hesitant Wall looked on his drives. He looked scared to take contact and was focused more on the defender than he was trying to makes his layups. He looked like Gil after his 3rd knee surgery.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
I think part of that was because he wouldn't have gotten a call
if howard picked him up and threw him.
by Llamaman on Feb 1, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sean - no redemption for Young for his 4th quarter?
Where he almost single handedly shoved the Wizards back into the game – and made it close at the end?
Sure – he didn’t shoot well in the first half… and was very much like the “old” Nick… but not even one sentence about the 4th quarter?
For that matter – no “wicked pixels” about the GIGANTIC foul disparity? The Wizards driving into the lane all night – while the Magic sit back and fire up THIRTY 3 pointers…. but it’s Orlando with the 39-9 Free Throw advantage? TWENTY-EIGHT personal fouls on the Wizards — Nine on Orlando? And not one mention in your “recap”?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 9:47 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
No, no redemption for Young
Playing selfishly gets you no positive pixels. Great, he is a gunner. Tell me something I didn’t know. I also amended the post to be less harsh to him, which should let you sleep tonight
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I agree
I’d rather have a smart and consistent Young than a streak when chucking is the only option left.
by DCPerspective on Feb 1, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Completely Agree
If one of the contending teams (Miami, Chicago, Boston, among others) need a sharpshooter due to injuries or other concerns, the Wiz should trade Nick Young next month and if possible, get a 1st round pick for 2012. Young’s probably going to not re-sign wih the Wiz next season anyways.
In the 2012 draft, the team should draft a PF with their first 1st round pick to play with McGee and a SG with the second 1st rounder, hopefully one who also plays better defense than Young.
To be or not to be
HOW doom do you have to be, nick, can not be traded,unless he agree to a trade. learn something,about the game before you make statements like that.
Tina Gary
No Need to be Snippy
I wasn’t aware of that. You don’t have to sound like a jerk to make your point.
If it’s a team that Nick Young had in mind for next season, perhaps the Wizards can convince him. It’s not impossible.
To be or not to be
Doom means dumb to really smart people, you big doomy
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard and check out my blog http://www.livefromthephonebooth.com
by WorldWiEdWard on Feb 1, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Doubt Nick turns down a trade to a contender
I’d be cool with shipping him out for a late 1st and using FA to replace him. Better than letting him walk for nothing in the summer since we won’t meet his price tag.
by gorebd on Feb 1, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The crucial point here, as Mike has said
is in Nick’s estimation of his FA value…his Bird rights would be lost if he were to be traded…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 2, 2012 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
I don't understand the criticism of Young
The only bad thing he did was get in foul trouble. He was barely in the game before the 4th quarter.
He got yanked twice
after going 1 on 5. His first three makes also completely broke the offensive flow.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I must have missed it
It actually doesn’t bother me for him to do that now and then because it’s hard to see a better option out there sometimes.
by steadyhand on Feb 2, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would feel more strongly about that
if we had an offensive flow… I feel that Nick reverting back to iso’s rather than catching and shooting is more on coaching than it is on him. He has shown to be very coachable and I truly believe the coaching or lack there of is the reason he takes some of these higher difficulty shots…
I’ve said before that when Nick gets the ball on the wing and shoots, dribble-drives, or pulls up a lot of times that is our offense. He is by far our best half court offensive threat so what most ppl on here call a bad shot… it’s truly a better option than Wall coming of a pick and shooting at the top or Lewis taking a shot on the baseline… etc….
My opinion
Is that they need to go back to what Flip was doing for Nick last year and the latter part of the ‘09-’10 campaign. They simply need to run more sets where Nick is catching and shooting, coming off of ball screens and pin-downs. Now it’s just isolation and pick and roll, and Nick isn’t a great pick and roll ballhandler. Tailor the gameplan to his strengths and you will see his efficiency increase.
As for his performance tonight, he was pretty much limited by foul trouble the entire game. He had a few scores that impressed me where he decided to attack the basket, which was great to see. Other than that, the insane shots from 3-pt range were absolutely incredible, but i don’t expect that to be a winning formula.
by Marine4Life51 on Feb 1, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
His percentages were better last when he had a higher rate of assisted field goals-especially from 3. He has had some success attacking the basket this year and getting to the line but he’s at his best coming off screens.
That said I think a lot of teams slept on him last year and that’s partially why he’s not getting as many open looks. Combine that with the fact that we don’t have any other credible scoring threats in the half court this year.
Hold. Up.
I mean let’s back this the fuuuuuuck up here. If that’s Kobe or Dwayne scoring 20 points in the fourth quarter to bring his team back, do you really call them selfish?
John Wall can’t shoot to save his life. Javale McGee got thrown around like he was a chew toy by Dwight. Rashard and Jan can’t even dream of being as dynamic a scorer as Nick Young. What was Nick supposed to do? Set screens and look to make a pass down low for a big man that:
a) won’t finish at the rim
b) won’t draw a foul (due to officiating)
c) if, by miraculous intervention, does draw a whistle, won’t make his free throws?
Niet. Nein. No! Nick did what his team needed. He put the team on his back and if it wasn’t for a career-worst night for Wall, would’ve brought home a victory nearly single-highhandedly.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 2, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agreed with you up untill
You said Wall played his worst, we all know Wall struggling with his shot that’s why he drives so much looking to get a call, or the layup, but this is not his worst he could have easily had a triple -double 2pts, 10, assts, and 7 reb. I think Nick gets a lot of slack because he doesn’t do anything else besides shoot.
Speaking only about his ability to score...
I do realize that he did the other things very well. But just remember something: John Wall will never become the play-maker he should be until he learns how to shoot from 12 feet. Once Wall gets a decent jumper, this team will score a lot more points.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 2, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think he will eventually
I think he just needs to be in a professional setting to do so, summer league not so much. I think we are going to make major strides as far as development this summer in the offseason. I mean Gil did not become MVP Gil until his 3rd or 4th season here and he had been playing in the NBA for awhile, so we just got to give it sometime.
Gil averaged 26/5/5 in his second year as a Wizard...
but he was a different player. It helps he had incredible confidence in his ability to make long jumpers and hit the three with a high enough frequency that he could get to the lane.
Man…I miss the slightly more sane, much healthier Gilbert.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 4, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
couldn't you argue that he put us into the hole he tried to dig us out of?
by Alpha_Snail on Feb 1, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, that was Wall and Shard...
both of who couldn’t score the basketball at all.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 2, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
Shard couldnt' score?
At least not in this game. Be fair.
I actually did a double-take when reviewing the box score...
Taliban Beard got his 20. I was shocked. How in the hell does this team get 20+ from Shard and Nick and still not win? Oof!
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Why doesn't he do it early...that is the 64,000 dollar question
I say it is because he warm up routine is lacking…I see it every home game…he doesn’t take it seriously….but who knows…we need him to be more consistent throughout the game and not use the 1st Q as a warm up….
Also, the ref issue is now noted at the top
But blaming the refs in the NBA is fool’s gold. Why sit there and complain about things you can’t control you can look at what went right or wrong on the Wizards end.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i virtually never ever mention refs for that reason
but tonight was the type of blatant, bullshit game mandated by the league that makes non-nba fans laugh at the sport and call it a fraud
it was pretty obvious the save Orlando fix was in...
any 50/50 call..or 60/40 call went the Magic’s way…
because obvious calls need to be called.
Ive played the game at a high level and usually wouldn’t say nothing about refs because both teams have to deal with them but tonight discrepency was horrible.
by pdub117 on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Try as I might, I can’t blame the refs for the loss. The Wiz played an uneven game, parts bad, parts sublime. Same with the Magic. Most of the calls were defensible. Wittman’s 4th Q lineups were highly questionable.
Bottom line: you want the win on the road, your starters and/or coaching need to be better.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Feb 1, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
So the Wizards outplay the Magic on the court...
Out rebound them.
Shoot a higher percentage from the floor.
Have more assists.
Turn overs about the same
More blocked shots
same amount of steals…
Yet, even though the Wizards won the game on the floor – and were out shot at the Free Throw line 39 – 9 ; you think the reason the Wizards lost is because the lineups were questionable?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because blaming the refs sounds a lot like sour grapes
I think “We wuz robbed” is a fairly boring recap. Were we, yes to an extent. But if our starters had executed better, it would not have put us in the position to be robbed in the first place.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are absolutely right about the Starters not performing well...
Fortunately – Randy Whitman noticed that too… and played Mack, Seraphin, Crawford and Booker for extended minutes….
Starters didn’t perform – bench picked them up…. Great sub plot…. not THE story line.
In a fairly called game – we would be celebrating a Win that was sparked by the Wizards Bench, and Randy Whitman’s “genius” decision to go with them for extended minutes….
Instead, Sean and I are in violent agreement that Nick Young and McGee didn’t have good games…. and in violent disagreement that is why the Wizards lost.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rook, I agree that the ref job was terrible as noted in the post at the top
I’m just asking you to question whether if the three starters (Wall/McGee/Young) had played anywhere near what they are capable with, whether that disparity would have mattered. Foul calls do not explain why NY was going 1 on 5 quarter 1-3. It does not explain McGee being out of position constantly or recovering too late. And it does not explain the disappearing act of our franchise player
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yet - good teams can overcome those kind of problems...
When a couple starters start out having a bad game, the Coach puts in some guys from the bench that pick up the starters….
Good teams do that…. Improving teams LEARN how to do that….
I think the fact that Mack, Crawford, Booker and Seraphin came in and picked up the Starters is HUGE… And BECAUSE THEY CAME IN AND PLAYED WELL – GOT THE LEAD… I honestly cannot say that the Wizards starters lost the game….
Had the starters played better, the Bench wouldn’t have played… and the outcome would STILL HAVE BEEN THE SAME !!!! Because the reason the Wizards lost, is NOT because Young missed 4 shots in the first quarter… and NOT because JaVale played a poor 7:19 in the first quarter, picking up two quick (questionable) calls.
So the bench comes in with roughly 5 minutes to go in the Quarter, and close out strong, and the Wizards are only down 5 points at the end of the First Quarter….
How did that lose the game for the Wizards?
Meanwhile, in the first quarter alone, the Wizards were whistled for 5 personal fouls to Orlando’s ONE…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Rook, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one
Orlando defends really well without fouling, us, not so much.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Wait -
You honestly think that the Wizards players were NOT TOUCHED when they were driving to the basket all game long?
Not one time did an Orlando player bump them in the lane, while they were in the air, … Not once did a Magic player hit a Wizard’s arm going for a lay up…
Remember, Orlando only had ONE block in the game…….
So you are saying that the Wizards are SO INEPT at making layups, that they continually drove in to the lane, and missed chip shots and layups at point blank range – because Orlando never touched them?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm stating that Orlando is know as a good defensive team and teams
with those types of reputations (fair or not) get the benefit of the calls. Much like the Bruce Bowen Spurs. Again, placing blame on an uncontrollable factor (refs) is missing an opportunity to constructively discuss the play of the Wizards
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Think Rook is on point about the bench picking up the starters
understand how it looks when you place the blame on the refs… refs have bad games too (that’s what I tell myself on nights like these to ease the anger). Yes the starters played bad but our young guys are going to have nights like that and it was great to see the bench be there for them.
Let’s not forget too though that this is an Orlando team that has been playing poor lately AND were missing two starters tonight. This killed their depth…
If you look at it long enough,
you start to question which came first: the reputation or the refs swallowing their whistles? Given that they build upon one another…
What’s our reputation? That we don’t get foul calls? Or that our team doesn’t put itself in position to be fouled? It takes two to tango. Is this whole thing purely about Orlando’s rep to the total exclusion of ours?
At any rate, I don’t think its a matter of blaming the zebras. You guys are analysts. So its your job to analyze. Why is an integral aspect of the game (the officiating) essentially off-limits, given that its as much about the Washington Wizards not getting the calls as it is about the Orlando Magic (or whoever we play on a given night) getting them?
When watching the game
I didn’t notice any more specific calls going against the Wizards than usual. There was nothing really egregious that wasn’t called for the Wiz (maybe a couple, but that happens every game) and likewise I didn’t see a lot of phantom calls on the other end (except for a few of those McGee reaching calls — those were kind of ticky-tack, but we were better off for it because Seraphin was 10 times better than McGee against Howard. It might have been a little skewed, but the free throw disparity was by no means completely manufactured by the refs.
The FT disparity tells the tale...
The Wizards didn’t shoot a single FT during the entirety of the first half. That’s a lot of basketball to not get a single and one.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 2, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Hedo was out of bounds, wall didn't touch Duhon
Booker got hacked on a rebound, and Wall was chopped up on a drive….
off the top of my head…
I think it was egregious…
Look -
I’m not arguing that the Young, McGee and Wall played well…. They didn’t
I am arguing that the Bench played well enough that it DIDN’T MATTER that the starters didn’t play well.
Young only played 21 minutes… Most of those minutes in the 4th quarter…. HOW COULD HE HAVE BEEN THE REASON THE WIZARDS LOST?
McGee only played 24 minutes…. replaced by Seraphin who played 22 minutes… Howard got his usual 21 and 18…. Nothing was gonna stop that from happening… But he was not the reason Orlando won…. His domination of McGee was not the difference in the game. McGee and Seraphin combined for 13 rebounds…. helping to somewhat negate Dwight’s normal domination of the boards… DH12 only had 3 offensive boards… a tribute to McGee and Booker and Rashard and Seraphin concentrating on the defensive boards (18 between them)…
None of those good things the Wizards did matter… because the Referees saw a game so one sided… so skewed towards Orlando’s favor – that nothing the Wizards could have done better would have mattered….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
And that is the reason the Wizards lost...
Not because Nick Young played poorly for 7 minutes in the first quarter… or that McGee was dominated by Dwight Howard….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I see your argument
I just think that pinning a game on the referees is missing the opportunity to actually analyze what went wrong with the Wizards starters and what went right with the bench play, particularly that of Kevin Seraphin and Jordan Crawford. Not to mention the fact that Rashard Lewis conveniently showed up for a “revenge” game.
I’m not going to get worked up about getting jobbed out in a regular season game because 1)its unprofessional to center recaps around criticizing refs and 2) there is much more to be gained by taking a look at the growth and regression of the Wizards as a team and as individuals.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
both are good points...but heres the real question
can rashard lewis maintain this level of play?
wall, nick, jordan and rashard all scoring could make us competitive
if he can then we should improve….
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
Obviously
there is merit in dissecting the play of individual players…
Young played poorly (even in the 4th when he scored 20 points, it was almost ALL on isolation plays)… and I have pointed out in numerous previous posts my dissatisfaction with is play as of late… fewer open catch-and-shoot opportunities (where he is MOST efficient)… fewer screens…. more turn overs.. more one-on-one play… Now, suspiciously, it seems to me that there are many fewer screens since Randy Whitman took over… But it also seems that Nick Young may have “checked out”… and is auditioning for his new gig this Summer… If that’s the case, the Wizards need to play Crawford and Mack more…
McGee played poorly – so what’s new.. It’s Dwight freaking Howard…
The Bench played great…
But to put the blame for the loss on the starters (Mcgee, Young, Wall) – is to ignore why they actually lost…. The bench more than made up for the starters inefficient and poor play… not only MORE than made up – they played BETTER THAN Orlando..
When you play better than the other team overall…. and that includes BOTH starters and bench, you are supposed to win the game…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
1)its unprofessional to center recaps around criticizing refs
Check out Michael Lee’s writeup in the Post. 4 of the top 5 paragraphs are about fouls and refs in the game.
I don’t think a reporter should gripe about calls all the time, but when that is the story than that is the story and you shouldn’t be embarrassed to focus on it.
by MR on Feb 2, 2012 5:59 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
He actually went back and forth for a message or two...
on Twitter with me about the referee issues. He thought the Wizards were being aggressive on defense but terrible passive on the offensive end.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
When the biggest difference in the game is the foul disparity...
it should be at least mentioned….
Sure – a couple of Wizards starters didn’t play well… but a couple of Orlando’s starters didn’t play well either…
Sure – Dwight Howard dominated (21 points, 18 rebounds) – but that is NOT why the Wizards lost.
Sure – we could point out the Wizards ineffective half court offense, or the fact that they didn’t run enough (only 17 fast break points), but neither problem is why they lost…
The Wizards lost, plain and simple, because Orlando shot 39 free throws, and the Wizards shot 9.
That is the story here.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The Wiz out rebounded, out blocked, out FG %
and only had 8 FT to the Magic’s 39! And the Wizards lose by 6 points. Something is wrong with that picture! I hate how the game is officiated in the NBA.
Long-Time Wizard Fan
I can't believe he didn't put Seraphin and the crew back in
I don’t get it. You have nothing to lose. You’re the interim head coach. And they ended the half playing incredible, NBA style basketball.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 9:47 PM EST via Android app reply actions 2 recs
john will be ok
I don’t think he was in the mood to play. But he better snap out of it
by no more kwame's in dc on Feb 1, 2012 9:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Uhh, not in the mood to play???
That’s inexcusible
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 5:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And by the way....
Also no mention of the fact that both Young and McGee played most of the first half and the entire second half in foul trouble…. because of ticky-tack touch fouls called by the Referees….
That couldn’t have affected their games at all, right?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 9:50 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Young was launching bad shots
He was playing 1 on 5.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mcgee is not even allowed to play vs Howard
he picks up 3 quick cheap ones every time they play, meanwhile Howard shoves him around and goes over his back at will- no calls. Last year Seraphin came in and immediately picked up cheap fouls too after Mcgee went out. The refs will not allow us to challenge this team, it’s really REALLY noticeable…generally i never mention refs
by DCrez on Feb 1, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is why the comments section is a beautiful thing
Angry about something not being mentioned in a recap? Discuss it there!
Oh please Rook
I notice that you haven’t had one nice word to say about Crawford, a player you have excoriated all season, who actually demonstrated a willingness to pass tonight, and got his teammates involved. Instead you want me to praise where a player broke the offense for three quarters and played hero ball, and then happened to get hot when the team needed to start chucking.
Show some balance.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
And knock down jumpers, even 3's
Just wanted to toss that in there… now allow me to creep out of the room before the parents unify to give me an undeserved restriction forgetting their own disagreement.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Crawford, Mack, Booker and Seraphin helped keep the Wizards in the game...
When Young and McGee were in foul trouble – and John Wall was having difficulties running the Offense…
I don’t have to show balance… I just wanted to point out the fact that the BIGGEST REASON the Wizards lost the game is because the Referees swallowed their Whistles on one end of the court – and called every cheap, ticky-tack touch foul, along with plenty of the “phantom” variety – on the other side of the court….
To blame Nick Young and JaVale McGee for this loss is simply not getting the story straight.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No, you wanted to bang your Nick Young drum again
and represent one side of the story. That’s the wonderful thing about NBA games, it can have a variety of different narratives. You want to blame the refs, that’s fine by me. But I will stand by the fact that if the starters had played anywhere near their capabilities, we wouldn’t be bitching about the refs right now.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
NO - I wanted to point out the it wasn't Nick Young and McGee that lost the game...
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To IGNORE the major glaring difference between the teams in the game...
Is NOT providing a different “narative” -
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yet you continue to ignore the fact that Crawford played well
If the starters played well, the referees would not have been put in a position to decide the game. I’m sorry you see if differently.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If the referees didn't take the starters out of the game with bs foul calls
they would’ve been in a position to decide the game.
by rgc19 on Feb 1, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That simply isn't true
Young was benched because of his poor offensive selection in addition to his his foul issues. Wall was simply not there for most of the game. McGee is the one argument for that point of view, and he should he remained out of the game in the 4th regardless considering the game Seraphin was having.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sean
Would you agree that for the most part, (and ignoring Young and McGee, since they had very little impact on the game anyway)… that:
The Wizards played energetic basketball for most of the game?
They played unselfish basketball? (26 assists?)
They played pretty well in the half-court, moving the ball and making hard cuts?
They drove the lane and either went to the basket hard, or found cutters or shooters at the 3-point line?
That they played well together, Including a good portion of the 4th quarter, when the game was still in the balance?
And when I say “for the most part” – for a greater part of the game, and for longer periods than the Orlando Magic did…!
Do you agree?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would point out that
That Rook has urged patience on Crawford a few times. I’m not saying he’s fair to Crawford. But I don’t think if Crawford made him flapjacks, he’d complain that he didn’t make him bacon as well.
Off base there
Rook wanted to bang his Nick Young drum there… haven’t once heard Rook claim that Wall, McGee, or Young played well…
Three quarters?
The dude played like seven minutes in the first half due to foul trouble.
by Marine4Life51 on Feb 1, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Refs got the memo from Stern
Bad for the league for Dwight not to be winning and causing trouble with trade demands.
by gilsix on Feb 1, 2012 9:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Such passion over a story line
I did not watch the game but I would have to say that a 39-9 foul shooting advantage should at least raise an eyebrow.
So should John Wall’s stat line… but Brandon Jennings (who was wonderful against the Heat last night) has also had quite a few games like that.
It is fairly obvious that Shard had a hundred million reasons to play a decent game last night.
Sean nailed it on Seraphin and the EG victory cigar… I have been saying all along that Kevin’s game has matured rapidly and his play in the European tourney and Spanish League was probably a much more productive investment of his time than the run and gun stuff that Wall was involved in.
Jordan Crawford did what we had hoped for all along too, ditto Shelvin Mack and Trevor Booker.
So, for better or worse, did Nick Young.
A life in PR tells me the headline should accentuate the obvious positive, Great Bench Play… and the more egregious negative… 4.5 : 1 foul shot disparity …
by khrabb on Feb 2, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Did anyone see the replay of Wall's last drive?
Howard clearly hit him on both arms midway up the forearm, but no calls at all. I couldn’t (actually sadly I could) believe it.
i am surprised Wall wasn't charged
he did hit Howards arms and that’s an automatic foul
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hehe
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
We Won
We have better FG% (FG% on 3s and FTs as well). Outrebounded the Magic, more assists and more blocks.
sadly we only didn’t get more points :(
Unbelievable.
your percentange on FT's is worthless
If the opponent takes three times more FTs than you do.
by Marine4Life51 on Feb 2, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
orlando with only nine fouls tonight thats incredible, haven't seen something like this tonight since back when i played high school ball
i was forced to listen to Orlando’s commentators and all they kept saying was how they needed every free throw to keep the wiz from winning tonight
Time for some reflection
On whether it’s hard to manage the game like Rose can: “It’s not hard when you got guys like Kyle Korver that can make shots and you can run him off down screens, and you got a guy like Carlos Boozer that can pick and pop. When Luol Deng’s in, you have a guy who you can run plays for, make shots and create his own shots. It’s kind of easy.”
Maybe Rose has something to do with how easy it looks…
bad not for John, not horrible…10 assists 7 rebounds….
in any case, when you make 9 more FGs and 1 less 3FG…you really shouldn’t lose…the refs did a number on us tonight….
kudos to the second team…
He is talking about players to pass the ball to
They make plays. I can see his point.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
they are not the only part of the equation....I think he is missing that key point
and tonight should be a wake up call…
by DavidDunn on Feb 1, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he out of it tonight
but he is simply saying its easy to be a 1 when you have players like Rose has.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree...Rose doesn't have all stars...those players are made
better by Rose…who has worked on his jumper, floater and finishes, draws in the defense, as well as gets the ball to players in the right place, …that comes with practice and hard work…not out of control wild drives…
He will be fine…but as i said in the original thread, thinking that it is easy as soon as you get players is not an appropriate mindset. He has to want to make them better, not think they are making him worse. He will get it though…I think he wants to win, but is just being impacted by the situation.
Its not one player
Boozer hits very difficult shots. Loul Deng can knock down 3s if he wants to. And there is no one like Korver on the Wiz. Wall can pass to Korver coming off a screen.Its Korver who hits those 3s. Better players help Rose.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
No doubt Rose worked on his game but the talent around him allowed him to do that. We all can look like a all-star when no one is guarding us when we are in the gym alone, but where you mold those talents are in game situations. It also helped the fact Rose never really went through a rebuild because when he got there most of their playoff team was intacted from previous years, and so Rose has been accustomed to his teammates always playing at a high level and not having to carry a team from the first time he stepped on a NBA arena court.
the number of players that are on the team now that were here when rose was drafted
2
so what on earth are you talking about. Rose came to a team that won 33 games the year before and won 41 the next two years after drafting him before they finally broke the 50 game barrier last year (62 win).
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
What I am talking bout
Deng, Hinrich, Noah, Nocioni, etc were all there when he arrived thats what I am talking about on top of additions, I was just on their NBA website last night looking at draft day picks and trades he had a playoff team when he got their. GET IT!!!!!
And
Uh I don’t know how you got only 2 players remain because Asik was drafted the same day as Rose. Boom!!!!
ha
asik was drafted but didnt come to the us till last year (asik is a sophmore in the nba) and the team before rose was drafted won 33 games, good for ninth worst record in the nba, and rose arrived and they went to the playoffs but with 41 wins.
This was the starting lineup for most of roses rookie year
derrick rose
ben gordon
john salmons
tyrus thomas
brad miller
this was the starting lineup for most of roses sophmore year
derrick rose
kirk hinrich
john salmons
taj gibson
joakim noah
nick young is a better sg than kirk hinrich by far
rashard lewis and john salmons is probably a wash at sf
taj gibson is a better player (not talent) than adray blatche
like javale mcgee noah was just starting to find his way in the nba game, but because of mcgees unique physique id say javale has the advantage.
and the bulls coach was the worst coach in nba history, vinny del negro
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
So
My POINT was made they were a PLAYOFF team, what don’t you understand about that.
And
You said only 2 players remain, no matter when Asik came he was drafted the same day and is still on their roster. At this point Blatche can keep the talent give me Gibson and his hustle, Athleticism goes to Mcgee, heart and toughness goes to Noah. I do believe eventually that lineup changed because I remember Salmons playing the 2 in the PLAYOFFS and Gibson at the 3, I forgot who played the 4, Noah at the 5 and Hinrich came off the bench.
hmmm
It also helped the fact Rose never really went through a rebuild because when he got there most of their playoff team was intacted from previous years, and so Rose has been accustomed to his teammates always playing at a high level and not having to carry a team from the first time he stepped on a NBA arena court.
that was the point i was disputing. Rose didnt join a playoff team, he joined a 33 win team which FAILED to reach the playoffs.
Also do you know who mirotic is, ill tell you one thing, hes not on the bulls current roster. Ill tell you another thing, the bulls drafted him this past draft. Mirotic might never come to the bulls, to the states. If he does come, it might not be for another 2 to 3 years. and when he does show up, 2-3 years later, he will be a rookie. Thats how international drafting works, you cant say a guy who has never met the team, played with the team, or somehow been around the team is part of the team just because the bulls own his draft rights.
Asik wasnt with the bulls until last year, HIS ROOKIE YEAR….so the players that were with rose his rookie year still remains at 2.
The biggest difference between rose year 2 roster and walls year 2 roster is perhaps culture….
Also i was wrong, deng was injured for the rookie year of rose’s career, he played 70 games for the bulls next year. but gordon was gone.
heres the basketball reference link, you can look at the roster for that year and the year before and compare it to the wizards, but honestly i dont think rose had a BETTER team than wall, but perhaps a different culture
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2010.html
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In the Chemi-meter we trust!
by piccolomair on Feb 2, 2012 3:32 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ha-ha
82games.com and basketball-reference.com say that your Bulls’ starting lineups were:
2008-09: Rose, Gordon, Deng, Thomas, Noah
2009-10: Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Gibson, Noah
And Del Negro might have been lousy at winning games, but at least he was able to teach Rose and Noah how to play pick and roll. The Wiz would be much further along if Wall and McGee could get in sync.
this recap is overly negative
Refs were unbelievable. Nick was unbelievable in the 4th. Wiz played well enough to win.
by rgc19 on Feb 1, 2012 9:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
sort of agree
they sucked, yes. but that’s expected. and mcgee did ok, at least better than he faired last year against top centers. he was laughable, not he’s just outplayed.
I don't think the Wizards should ever be in a position
where they have to hope for that much production from their bench to remain competitive in a game.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Id argue that they only needed the bench so much
Because of the terrible foul calling. Besides they played great. Starters were disappointing but the wiz got some tough breaks and were still in a position to win it. Orlando may be slumping but they are still a good team
by rgc19 on Feb 1, 2012 10:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Brings up my post below.
Constantly seeing the horrible production from them creates a stark contrast if the bench gets a little shine from the writers.
Look, if you want to take away positives from the game, go ahead
But Sean and I don’t have a duty to match your impressions of the game with what we write.
by Mike Prada on Feb 1, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I was going to write an overly sarcastic response
About how of course you have to match our impressions. But then I thought that would be silly and have the possibility of dragging the discourse further down. At worst, recaps like this get the comment section a-brewing. Keep up the good work.
I completely agree.
However, I’d rather read a recap article that accentuates that the bench played out of it’s mind, that we had a mini-coming of Seraphin and see the numbers that correlate with how well our bench is jelling. Now, that’s just the positive in me after seeing tons upon tons of negatives from each game. Just a little variety you know?
PS – I’m a huge fan of both you and Mike’s work so this is almost like nitpicking and I’m still a little upset from the game (disclaimer) :).
Not a problem!
It should be noted I was very impressed with bench, I just think to take a longterm view, its not a recipe for success going forward.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 1, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Having to rely on that sort of production (like almost 50 points from Mack, Crawford and Seraphin) is never going to happen. It was incredible that we know they have the ability to help out when the starters are in a funk. It’s also incredible to see that them really make us eat crow about saying how that lineup was going to have problems scoring without Blatche.
I’m glad to eat crow on that one.
It could be said
That the bench is starting to see a different coaching philosophy and are buying in as to when Flip was coaching he played guys that didn’t deserve the minutes and that Wittman is building confidence in are young guys game by game and you know bullshit when you see it and Flip would run the same course of saying he would bench guys for not playing hard, but then Blatche plays 40 minutes a game. You can’t piss on them and tell them it’s rainning and expect them to lay it on the line for you, I mean when was the last time we seen Kevin Seraphin get these kind of minutes.
Young is not in the Wizards plans long-term either
That much is pretty obvious….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I'm not sure it's fair to put that all on management
I’m not sure Nick Young wants to be here. If the Wizards did offer $7 million a year as some people have suggested, I think his agent may have committed malpractice by not having him accept that offer. I can’t see Nick Young getting more than the MLE the way he has been playing. The only reason an agent would do that is if his client told him that he didn’t want to play here and his goal was to escape.
Therefore, the Wizards may have wanted to Nick Young in the long-term plans, but Nick kept his ask so high that they wouldn’t be able to sign him to a long-term contract. Granted, we don’t know what transpired in the negotiations So that assumption could be false. It could entirely be managements fault. My point is that it’s hard to say what management’s “long-term” plan was, since it’s not entirely in their control.
by GJennings on Feb 2, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hurt feelings
Nick was probably hurt by their offer.
If somebody offers you $7 million dollars
You should get over those feelings… because you know, it’s 7 million dollars.
Honestly
G I did not know that, so he would have been making more than Dray
A Few Qualifers
It’s speculative. We really don’t know what was offered. A few posters have quoted things that said he was offered 7 million.
Dray makes more than 7 million a year. So it’d be less than Dray.
Scoring two guards that play solid...
on ball defense are worth much more than tweener forwards that haven’t settled on what kind of player they’re going to be. I’ll defend Blatche for a lot of things, but Nick is worth more on the open market. Steve Blake got three guaranteed years at $8 million per to hit open threes and throw the ball to Kobe.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Just looked it up
9th time in NBA HISTORY a team has been called for 25+ fouls and gotten 10 or fewer calls
by Llamaman on Feb 1, 2012 9:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Possibly the most unevenly called game in NBA history
by Llamaman on Feb 1, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sounds like a lead story to me. “Historic,” and all that.
by Tbonebullets on Feb 1, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
What happened to Wall working so hard in the offseason on that Jumper?
He’s had a couple of solid stretches but other then that his J seems even worst then last year. Its one thing to miss but he shoots it with no confidence. He’s like always hoping it goes in or leaning forward and trying to will it in. Then if he misses one, his head goes down, and his J sucks the rest of the game.
Again, its like the worst of both worlds. His J sucks and we dont have a PG friendly attacking the rim or getting in the paint type of Offense like I think we should. I still think he would kill with the high screen, high screen & roll but we wont ever do it obviously. Meanwhile guys like Rose, D-Wade before Lebron, prime Gil, Nash, Paul, and all these other guys get to run it non stop. It sucks that not only do we not run it that much but we dont run it at all.
Its annoying watching Wall vs Rose and seeing Rose get pick after pick where Wall isnt even on him when he scores. They set the pick way out front and then its Rose vs the bigs which is a total mismatch just like it is with those other guys I named before but we never ever do it even though we have one of the fastest, most athletic, and explosive PG’s in the league. It makes no sense to me. He should live at the line and keep the opposing bigs in foul trouble like Gil use to do but our system never even attempts it
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
Wall's drives
You generally are not going to get the calls if you are out control, forcing the issue, with an arm going this way and a leg going that way. The NBA doesn’t work like that.
Is Sam doing any coaching over there?
just no excuse for seraphin not getting minutes in the 4th
he played excellent for us
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
by samoka10 on Feb 1, 2012 10:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It never gets to that point
seems like 50% of our runs are him going 3 to 5 on 1 long before anyone can set him a pick.
He leads in fast break points because of sheer number of attempts.
I’d tie his shoes together- after 10 assists I’d let him untie them.
he isn't playing well...shooting wise or defensive assignment wise
by DavidDunn on Feb 1, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Looks like he is in a funk....
A long season in comparison to college with little rest is starting to weigh on him I think. Well that and being on the Wizards can’t help.
He's not playing great
But Booker has been playing really well too. And Jan has been getting pt. Somebody has to sit.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Precisely
Jan is getting “sixth pick” minutes, and Singleton and Booker are getting the shaft as a result. It’s criminal that Jan is starting over Booker right now. Maybe one day Vesely will be the better player, but right now Booker is light-years ahead.
by steadyhand on Feb 2, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Booker is playing better
but since he is playing better off the bench now and getting more minutes, I don’t really mind whether he starts or not. (unless Vesely is a complete disaster).
Some players tend to play better off the bench (sixth man). I don’t know, maybe it allows you to prepare mentally and watch what has been happening (mistakes to avoid), and also it helps your confidence playing against opponent’s bench players, doesn’t it?
Ok. You are correct.
Book played a total 98 min in last 5 games while Vesely had 105 min, game high 29 min in the game against Houston.
But in the last 2 games Book got 47 min while Vesely got 31 min. So it’s heading to the right direction.
0000000000000000
Except for 2 steals in 16 minutes. That’s . . . . bad.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Feb 2, 2012 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
Criminal? Booker is the ideal bench player
Extremely high-energy off the bench. He’s better playing against backups or tired starters – that’s where he’s thrived most, where his plus-athleticism and plus-energy are at the highest possible advantage. Why change that?
by Max Zamphirescu on Feb 2, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
Pleasant surprise in Seriphin – Macks the real deal & Booker’s been a beast also.
by DCPerspective on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Man u get the feeling John Wall REALLY doesnt like his teammates
via MichealLee
John Wall is really frustrated. He just walked past his teammates without giving any of them dap, then grabbed a seat on the floor #wizards
I mean, i hope this isnt why none of them ever wanna help him up when he falls and etc
actually i take that back, i know he cares
that had to just be outta frustration it was a very rough evening for him
I'm starting to wonder if he is a little bit selfish...
I always thought it was weird when Flip gave him the Hard Hat on the first day of training camp to give out, he gave it to himself. I maybe making something out of nothing but I think a leader really wouldn’t have acted in that way. I know he is young and I’m probably being hard but I don’t think you see that from a 20 year old Durant.
from watching on tv anyway
he isn’t caring himself like a leader
by stevie on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He shouldn't be the "leader"...
He is one of the youngest on the team, and being asked to lead the team. Just because you are the #1 pick doesn’t automatically make you a leader. Kyrie Irving definitely isn’t the leader with guys like Jamison, Varejao, and Anthony Parker. Rubio isn’t the leader either with guys like Kevin Love and even Ridnour. However, Wall is doing a fine job at running the team and playing hard.
He has a lot on his plate, and I don’t know if he’ll be able to succeed in this environment. I don’t think Wall will ever be as good as a Derrick Rose, but then again I he’s not that far off from him. IF he is surrounded by a couple of veterans,and not asked to be the leader of this team, he will be able to succeed. He’s trying but he isn’t used to all this losing and he isn’t used to playing poorly. I know we have Sam Cassell but we need a veteran guard that can help Wall out, a guy like Chauncey would have been great but he would never come here.
Bottom Line asking John Wall to lead this team, isn’t right. He hasn’t earned his experience in the league yet and shouldn’t be the leader yet.
reminds me of this quote...
“Now, if we criticize John Wall for not making the right play, he’s not going to backlash and retract and shut down for three plays, because he knows that we care about him. Because we spent that time, and invested it off the court.”
Mo Evans, spoke of progress made at a team dinner 10 days into the season.
Which kind of mean that he did those things before…and bad habits are hard to break….he will work through….I think it is his competitive experience…but Ted better not just assume John likes the “Plan”…and I think it is pretty clear John like Flip better than Randy, so there are some choppy waters to navigate here…
by DavidDunn on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Wall is setting up the future roster
by not happily playing with certain ones. As long as so and so is in the game, I am playing half speed.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
that wouldnt be a player you want to try and build a franchise around
by DCrez on Feb 1, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wall is the starting point guard
and he is their best player, so i guess Arenas told Wall take it out on the team like I he used to do it. Mad at the coach? Take it out on the team.
by hambonejackson on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
John is pouting. I think he truly believed he thought he'd be Rose-good this year.
Ain’t happening.
by Bassanova on Feb 1, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
it could be frustration
If I read his lips correctly he called the ref a bitch ass ninja, I guess when he didn’t get that call on Howard, and Young had to restrain him. I think he is just tired of losing, I mean come on this is the same guy that turned down the ESPY’S to be with his teammates and didn’t want too much attention coming out of college, because he didn’t want his TEAMMATES feeling like he got all the attention in a team sport. Also McGee, Young, AND Blatche get their 15 minutes of agony fame, but most of the blame comes down on Wall that could be it too.
If you read his lips right
It’s surprising he didn’t get T’d up… Unless the ref was biting his own lip because he knew John was right and the outcome of the game was already predetermined…
He used to ask Flip to fine him for some bad gestures
Does it still apply now?
You know what, if Big Baby can play power forward, then so can Seraphin. Especially if he can consistently hit the outside shot like he did tonight. Now, of course he can’t do it consistently right now — he needs to do some yoga and eat more lettuce or something — the point being that I would be very reluctant to trade Keveen because he clearly has a lot of potential.
by Tbonebullets on Feb 1, 2012 10:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hard to believe...
…that no one mentioned the play of Veseley. He was the invisible man for 16 minutes on the court.
Anybody can have a good or bad game. Vesely hasn’t shown much on a consistent basis. That’s troubling.
i'm a bit disappointed in him
the "only’ thing he does consistently is play defense. He’s shown he can pass. But most of the time on offense he just stands around. He need to get after it, be much more aggressive. hope he comes around.
hes either got to work on a jumper and play sf or......
or add about 20 pounds and try to be a varejao typr player..
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
he will never be an nba SF
gotta beef that kid up, get him at PF
He's far, far too quick...
to write off as a guy you want to just throw weight on and put at the four.
Possibly the quickest hands among the forwards and certainly the most disruptive defender in an odd-man situation or when offering help defense. The kid has to have more tipped passes than anyone else on the squad.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 2, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
I like to see him defend SF’s though, rather than bulky/crafty PF’s.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't he take someone to the rim?
Against Charlotte? Or was it Denver? I dunno. The fact that he refuses to shoot makes this whole thing much more odd.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
i'd like to see him shoot a few jumpers
his form looks ok, but the guy never shoots. he must average less than 1 outside shots per game
he plays scared.
only gets rebounds that fall in his hands, does whatever it takes to avoid taking shots….i guess that’s ok while he tries to get up to speed….but come on son, get into the game! What we are seeing from his is NOT high bball iq (on offense) it’s just passivity
He's a rookie coming from a completely different style of Euroleague play, we should probably give him some more time to see how he does going forward.
by tonedru on Feb 1, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He should be sent to the D League
Not because he’s playing especially terribly, but he needs to go there with the instructions to hone a jump shot.
by TunedMassDamper on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
except leading up to the draft the talk was how "nba ready" he was
based on having played pro ball in the vaunted euro leagues for 3yrs instead of having been an ncaa player. I agree 100% he needs time and we’ll see…but the fact right now is there are a dozen rookie out there clearly playing better than the guy Ernie apparently wanted for 2yrs. To me that makes the idea of Ernie chosing our next infusion of players a disheartening one.
He's only 21
He’s clearly not nba ready, which was obvious from every piece of tape I saw on him. There are things he has a nice grasp on, but he has a lot to learn and a lot of just plain old physical development to achieve. I’m not thrilled about taking him over guys like Leonard, but it’ll be a few years before we really know what we have here. If he weren’t taken #6, he probably would be in the D League right now.
If he can just learn to play good D, pass the ball well, and realize when it's his shot to take, he'll have a good rookie year.
by tonedru on Feb 1, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This -- I don't see him playing scared at all
I see him as one of the few players who is aware of his role on the team – he’s a rook. A rook that can’t shoot the ball well. His job is to play defense, hustle, go after offensive boards and try to facilitate for others.
I saw him make some superb cuts and off-ball screens today. I’m not so certain he ever necessarily needs to (or will) develop a killer jumper, or exceptional handles. He’s a really good passer, especially for his size.
As he gets smarter and more comfortable in the NBA, his off-ball movement, cuts and playmaking through passes will be increasingly valuable on a team with smarter, better players than we have now.
Vesely was forecast to be a valuable “glue guy,” and nothing’s changed for me to think otherwise
by Max Zamphirescu on Feb 2, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Looking back...
yeah, 2011 was an…uneven year for drafting in the lottery. It isn’t every year someone like Wall comes out, but to get such a…project in Vesely is disconcerting.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
I dislike the notion that everyone else is holding him back
The guy couldnt collect a board or score a point and didnt play good defense at all last night….but the problem is his teamates arent smart enough? No way. I dont buy that excuse for Wall either, these are our top picks and blame for their play does not fall on everyone else
You can trade the pick too...
This is why he’s paid the big bucks, to think outside the box when he has the opportunity. Though the last lottery pick he traded didn’t turn out too well, did it?
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
His defense isn't that great
He left Anderson completely alone at the three point line several times.
by steadyhand on Feb 2, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's a 21 year old rookie
His defense has been better than Singleton’s, who was drafted solely for his D ability
by Max Zamphirescu on Feb 2, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Singleton's D
has been up and down. However, the primary error for Singleton is overhelping. This shows that he’s either 1) overestimate his ability to get back, 2) underestimating the ability of other players to pass the ball, or 3) trying too hard to be a good teammate. It’s a different kind of error. I think it can be corrected with time. As a straight man-on-man defender, I think Singleton has shown a lot of promise.
I am worried he is overestimating his own ability
like most of his teammates!
by isum on Feb 2, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah the smart defender thing is getting a bit tired...
It would be nice to see him put a 10-12 point game.
we have to play that mack, craw, sing, book and seraphin lineup more....
id start every second and fourth quarter with it
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
The headline on this post should have been
Referees take second road win away from Wizards
The Wizards:
Made more field goals; by a wide margin (42-33)
Shot a higher percentage from the floor
Made only one less 3-pointer, but shot a higher percentage
The Wizards scored more points from the floor ; by a HUGE margin; 96-79
Out rebounded the Magic by 45-37 ; including 15 offensive rebounds
Had more assists ; 26 – 18
More blocks 5 – 1
and all the other statistical categories were about even
And the Wizards lose by 6 points
BECAUSE
Fouls….
Wiazrds whistled FOR 28 personal fouls
Orlando whistled for 10 fouls
Free throws = 39 – 9
So that just means that Washington was reaching in on all those Orlando drives, right? NO
Orlando played their typical inside out game. In to Howard, out to shooters….
They shot 30 Three point field goal attempts….
Not a lot of driving there….
On the other hand, the Wizards John Wall, Shelvin Mack, Trevor Booker, Jordan Crawford, and Singleton continually drove into the paint… to be CONTINUALLY knocked down, shoved, hacked and pushed…. On almost EVERY PLAY, a Wizard was hitting the floor……………. 9 free throw attempts…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:27 PM EST reply actions 12 recs
That was the game.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
Sometimes (often) blaming the referees is sour grapes. Other times, referees have (deliberately or not) swung games, even series with blatant incompetency in favor of one team. This was one of those games. Somebody quoted above about the historical disparity we witnessed tonight. That is the reason we lost.
This should be the writeup summary for the game... So True!
Mike Prada, make it happen. lol
Also
When you have a college education to so this stuff, I’d imagine you have a burning seared than to blame referees. That’s for fans to cry scream. Not for writers to write about.
There’s a reason you here Phil Chenier refrain almost every single time he wants to complain about a call. Nobody wants to listen to them talk about poor officiating the whole game. Among other things, such as disinteresting and whiny, its not professional.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 10:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
But its for us to bitch about
If the professional analyst and writer saw something else to write about, and didn’t want to write something disinteresting, whiny, and unprofessional, then you can’t really say he should have.
But I’m done with this conversation. Not because of you, but because its not the point of being on this website.
And for what its worth, Fagan writes the best game summaries in this town. Pretty much every time he does them. So I’d keep doing what already works.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 10:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
It’s also a practical reality that if a guy wants to have a future in sports reporting or journalism, then he can’t criticize the Refs. You become unemployable by doing that. And that’s OK. When appropriate, it’s the job of the FANS to criticize the refs, and not be reprimanded for saying what is true. In this game, criticism of the Refs is true to a historically notable degree of truthiness.
Sean’s write up leads with a tap to the Ref horribleness. That’s enough, I guess.
by Tbonebullets on Feb 1, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He whined a bit tonight...
said if he was John he would not have been able to remain as quiet after that phantom Duhon call….
fwiw
Buck went nuts against Houston...
pointing out about four or five travel no-calls on the Rockets.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Lol Ohh all the mistypes
I’ll stop using my phone for all of your sakes. I guess you caught my jist
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 11:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree with what you said when it is a play here or there
but when ref’s play a clear role in deciding the outcome of a game… I’m fine with it being brought up. Just like when our players have bad games and we get on them, they deserve to be held accountable. They are paid professionals.
absolutely the crux of the matter
its not professional
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 2, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree 100%...
The numbers and facts are all listed. They dont lie.
by rayallenisaballer on Feb 1, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I have to go take another look at this one
Despite the free throw disparity, I didn’t have the feeling that this was that biased (as I have many times in the past). Maybe I’m just resigned to the team losing…
There were two plays that summed up the game
One was early in the with Seraphin matched up on Howard. Howard run to his right and looks like he want to throw up a running hook but instead launches the ball 20 feet into the stands. Foul is called on Seraphin. Replay shows Seraphin has both hands at his side and made almost no contact with Howard.
The second play was the very end of the game. Wall drove the basket and was stripped on the way up with no call and the Magic recover. Replay shows Howard hacked Wall across both arms before making contact with the ball. The ref was in position with a clear line of sight on the play but called nothing.
All in all great game by the Wizards, ridiculous game by the refs.
by blackdog3377 on Feb 2, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is the first game anyone has complained about the referees in any substantial way
And to not complain about the referees is like not filing a police report after a mugging.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Feb 2, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Historically on the site
There have been plenty of post game recap comment threads that hone in on the “we wuz robbed” notion.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't recall any this year outside of game threads (which don't count) that were substantial
I’s almost unanimous in this recap. The refs are usually NBA refs. Star calls. Favor home over away. Good teams over bad. We live with that and people remark on it. But this game was different. It was everything that’s wrong with NBA officiating all at once and on a giant neon billboard.
“We wuz robbed” is sour grapes, and it’s usually pretty obvious that the commenters are just angry or upset. Those comments don’t dominate discussion.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Feb 2, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
I can see that
I’m thinking of games like the crab dribble game, or any Cavs game in general. There have also been games where the comments have focused on the officiating.
I understand the outrage and the I think Rook et al are right in point out that type of call disparity is one that should be raised and commented upon and criticized. But for the purpose of recaps, I think that by focusing on something the team can’t control (officiating) and instead concentrate on what can be improved upon or should be lauded normally brings about more discussion.
I’m not going to turn into Tommy Heinsohn overnight start writing about officiating. Because there is a strong possibility that there will be a game this year in which the Wizards get the benefit of the calls. I can almost guarantee you that many won’t be complaining about terrible officiating if that happens.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well technically "THE Crab Dribble" game
was one of the most joyous times that we’ve had on this site because they finally called the travel. So be it in a meaningless game when the rivalry was pretty much over.
-Back to your regularly scheduled discussion about refs
by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 2, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
On a positive note, we're not Toronto
Who lost 64-100 tonight.
by tonedru on Feb 1, 2012 10:33 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I'm watching the Dallas, OKC game right now, It's nice to see 2 good teams and watching their rotations, shot selection, etc.
We need this type of play from our guys.
The reason this is such a disappointing loss....
And the reason that I despise games like this…..
The Wizards actually played well. They moved the basketball. They shared the basketball. They played like a team.
Even their half court offense looked somewhat organized.
Their defensive rotations broke down a few times, but overall, given the restrictive nature of how the game was called, they played well defensively….
This SHOULD have been a win
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 1, 2012 10:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Dwight had crab dribbled
I think I might have had to send the EMTs
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
As angry as I was after the game about the officiating
In a way this is the best of both worlds. On one hand we don’t want to win to many games, because we need our 2012 first to be high to get another core piece. On the other hand we want our young guys to play well and show they can win some games.
Today we outplayed a playoff team (showing the young guys improvement) and got a loss (making our pick higher)!
by Llamaman on Feb 1, 2012 10:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i dont want us to lose these games....
i’d love to see us build momentum into next year like past okc teams and memphis teams did
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
I would love to increase our chances at getting a high pick though
We need to come out big in this draft.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
i agree with you
with our roster we will have a high pick, lolllll
i just want to see us improve as a team and win a few games…
there are many guys that can help us in the draft……if we land top 4, i think we’ll be fine
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
But how frustrating must it be for John Wall
To watch the team play well.. OUTPLAY the other team… and still lose…?
At some point, hard work, effort, and teamwork have to pay off… Tonight the Wizards showed heart.. They showed effort. They played well together, shared the basketball (26 assists)… Rebounded well… Played tough…. Played better than the other team…
and LOST.
When hard work, effort, teamwork and sharing the basketball don’t work – how long do you think these Wizards will continue doing those things?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
very good point....
we had one of those few games where we had guys play team ball, make shots, play D, and even box out…..
it hurt to lose this and a few of us noticed how wall walked past his teammates and how wall’s teammates didnt pick him of the floor in this game….
i worry that these guys dont like each other……and losing heart-breakers like this won’t help….
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
It is as frustrating for Wall as for everybody else on the team
We win as a team and lose as a team.
Winners continue to work hard. Losers complain and give up.
In other news
It’s amazing how good Chris Paul is.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Feb 1, 2012 11:02 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Nice write up, Sean
No point in complaining about the officials; Look at the game thread, I had to have made more negative comments about the referees and officiating than anyone else, but there’s nothing that can be done about it. That’s the way of the world, and if we were a better team, we’d get those calls.
Sad, but true. That’s the NBA sometimes, guys. Very, very poorly officiated game tonight, but Sean makes a valid point about the starters. Hell, even if John just shows up at all tonight, we win this game.
My main concern, and something that needs to be addressed soon: I don’t think John Wall can actually ever be a leader on a team. He just doesn’t seem to have it in him. He feeds off energy, and that’s great, but even though he’s young, his attitude is god awful, and pouting and walking by teammates, no matter how frustrating a shooting night you’re having, if unacceptable if you’re expected by the organization and fan base to lead this team.
Maybe we should stop expecting any sort of “leadership” from John.
Can I be honest?
I think John’s going to be a great player, but him, just his personality, I don’t really like him too much. He isn’t very likeable, and I think he’ll be a star on our team once we reach the promised land, but i DO NOT think he’ll be our super star: That will be someone else, someone who isn’t on our team yet.
And also, I don’t think he’ll ever shoot the jump shot well. Ever. Rondo never got it right, and I think John will go through something very similar…he’ll have to mature and learn angles, and the change of pace moves, and he absolutely needs a floater in the paint, but a jumper…I just don’t see it happening. Not now, not ever.
by DCeee on Feb 2, 2012 12:00 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
I agree
And I think the expectations have been unfair.
At Verizon Center you can only buy a John Wall Jersey…he has been hyped as our saviour and he is simply a really good player with a unique skill set.Leadership skills can not be anointed upon a player.
He may never be a great point gaurd,but he can be a key player. IMHO
by g zeller on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
that's some R. Kelly Real Talk right there
painfully agree with ya, too
by FTT on Feb 2, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd it.
Well said and that’s as honest as Wiz fans need to face now.
if you are correct than the Plan has about a 10% chance of working
because it would mean we have to get a franchise player from this upcoming draft
Instead of Wall
If we end up with a top 3 pick it could end that whoever we draft this season is going be the true face of the franchise and Wall will be the #2. This draft is so loaded with talent compared to the last couple seasons,
Nobody has declared yet
So let’s not jinx it? But, yes, it’s likely to be deeper.
True
But on the other hand I think the reason a lot of players stayed in school last year was because of the lockout. All of those guys who would have turned pro last year are probably going to do it now but with an extra year of seasoning playing college ball.
by blackdog3377 on Feb 2, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I just see things a bit different
John Wall is struggling because he’s not accepting being a “loser.” This is a guy who won a lot. He’s not used to being in the bottom of the league. The team is in a great deal of flux. His first coach who seemed squarely in his corner was fired. His minutes are down slightly, I believe, under Whitman. And the team is still losing.
To compound it all, being a PG is often a thankless job in the NBA. How much does Rondo get trashed? Players always want the ball, and it’s the coach and PG’s fault if they don’t get it. He’s got guys like Mo Evans, who I can’t recall playing twenty minutes in a single game this season, telling him what to do? The talent surrounding him right now is less than he would have if he’d played for Kentucky another year. If you want to win as badly as Wall does, how doesn’t that eat you up inside?
Sometimes being a leader means you have to pissed at other players. Sometimes being a leader doesn’t mean smiling and hugging the guy who took 3-4 shots in a row outside a system. Sometimes being a leader means letting the coach who didn’t say a word when you were hacked know that you’re not pleased.
I think it’s too soon to judge John Wall as a leader. Tonight was really, really frustrating. But, being pissed off sometimes is part of leading a team.
The thing about body language
(And I tweeted this last night).
Players look happy when they win, and they look angry when they lose.
I’m not too worried about Wall. All we’ve really learned in the past year-plus is he can’t turn this ship around on his own. I blame elevated expectations. He was much rawer skill-wise coming out of school than I think we realized.
by Mike Prada on Feb 2, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
unfortuantely that last sentence tranlates to
He’s not as good as we thought he was.
John averaged 6 assists and 4 turnovers
and couldn’t shoot…. I think blaming elevated expectations is a huge understatement. It amazed me how we all of the sudden had a franchise player, a superstar, etc…. he has the talent but is far from becoming even close to the player many believed.
by koop1122 on Feb 2, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Worried about Wall, too
maybe all the talk we heard about players with a sense of entitlement was about Wall, because as the #1 pick he’s the one most likely to feel entitled.
I like the Bullets
by K-Bro on Feb 2, 2012 4:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm scared that all you said is 100% correct but...
i think he is the youngest guy on this team….maturity has lacked at times this year (especially tonight) but i want to give him the benefit of the doubt….
the rondo comparison is spot on…john is so athletic that he should get anywhere he wants on the floor and be a menace on the defensive end…
but the weaknesses in his half-court game (poor shooting, inability to change speeds or recognize when this is appropriate) make it that he needs to be surrounded by scorers (like rondo) or he needs to play second fiddle to a better player…
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
Seraphin really showed me something tonight
He’s making some really nice progress. From “why the hell did we promise this guy we wouldn’t send him to D-League” last year to a 12th man 20 games ago to a legit bench guy now. I don’t want to put too much stock in one performance, but I thought he was still a year away from being able to put togther a performance like he did tonight. He just turned 22 and picked up the game fairly late in life. We might just have something here after all, folks.
Also, Mack makes me happy. He’s exactly what I hoped he’d be — a very solid backup point who is going to eventually win some games for us.
by steadyhand on Feb 2, 2012 12:35 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Nah
Before everything got too out of hand we were talking about how he was in the gym a 3a.m. like Arenas etc, and now we don’t know if he is our Franchise player I mean WOW!!! really. It was a rough game I mean Melo just had a 1 point game like a week or 2 ago. Let’s not forget the scrutiny in this game by the ref’s he easily could have had a triple-double tonight 2pts, 10 assts, and 7 rebs. Not his best game, but certainly not his worst. Melo, Wade, Lebron, etc. They all done had nights like this. No one spoke on how McGee charged to the bench blowing past his teammates when he got dunked on by Howard and everybody was still on the court when they called a timeout.
Wall is a hot head, but in a good way because he is a competitor, and what he saw tonight was a bunch of refs choking on cat litter when it came to his team on top of all the losing, I think all this losing is really getting to him and made he thought “not again” when everything was going Orlando’s way. You guys failed to mention he was cheering his team on when they were up and playing good team ball.
Even when Nick Young doesn't have a great game
All I imagine is how bad we would be without him. Crawford played well tonight but still without Young it is not even close in the 4th. I love how the guy can shoot 8-13 and it’s all about bad shots and taking away from the flow of the offense. Our offense is horrible but when Nick has a good game a lot of ppl on here give credit to the coach or the PG about the offense when it was more about Nick scoring 17 in a quarter.
So many on this site seem to want to get rid of the players (Young/McGee mainly) because they have flaws, but they don’t realize the holes it creates by letting these players go.
by koop1122 on Feb 2, 2012 12:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
yeah i agree about Nick
folks always rip him for messing up the offense, but the truth is there’s no offense other than someone (usually Nick) hitting shots.
by DCrez on Feb 2, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There's a pretty good case to be made against Mcgee
He was -22 in 24 minutes tonight, and earned it.
He has the worst plus/minus per minute on the team for the season.
The team also scores more and gives up less points when he is off the court than when he is on it.
He just makes some really poor decisions out there, particularly on defense, that hurt the team. There were a few games at the beginning of the season where it looked like he had really made a lot of progress, but lately he seems like he’s worse than last year.
by steadyhand on Feb 2, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I feel like we've played 10 teams with centers that have outplayed him...
at least one of them was a backup.
by mogoman on Feb 2, 2012 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
right
I once thought he was moving up into the elite centers. But he’s one player who produces for the stat line but it doesn’t really translate into good basketball. The team seems to play better without him.
For those who think, he’s going to learn, ask yourself, why? This isn’t like Seraphin who picked up basketball late in life. He’s the SON OF COACH. If he hasn’t picked it up now, I don’t think there’s much hope.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Feb 2, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
it hurts for me to admit this but i think you're right
with his mother being great basketball mind having played with greats like cheryl miller its troubling that javale has such a low basketball iq…..
but i will say this…have you seen austin rivers this year? no court vision, no feel for how to use his team mates….i feel like im watching a young nick young when i see him and his father is a great basketball mind too….
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
my point being that having a basketball mind in the house doesnt translate to basketball iq
regardless i really he and john have big bounce back games
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
based on using that scale
I would have a hard time saying John Wall is a top 20 point guard…
by koop1122 on Feb 2, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We are a better team in terms of point's per possession with him on the bench
That’s pretty crappy in and of itself, but especially since Mack, a second round rookie for crying out loud, is on the floor when John is not….
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But Mack played at Butler...
a premier basketball program. What they got out of the marginal talent they recruited there is amazing. It speaks to the level of coaching that players received. One and done at Kentucky isn’t much time to learn anything.
by TerroristFistJab on Feb 5, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
unfortunately for John and us that is the scale that is used when ranking players.
by mogoman on Feb 2, 2012 12:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I get what you are saying b/c it concerns me too when they are outplayed
but it’s more about how they play over the course of a year… it’s hard to say well JaVale was outplayed by Amir Johnson tonight so he is worse or maybe John outplays Steve Nash does that make him better… it’s more about the consistency than night in and night out.
Now obviously the consistency is not there with either John or JaVale but we have to realize how young they are and the how their potential is much more untapped than the other players better than them at their positions
on the way to top 10 if he continues to improve.
I’ll name ten from other teams that I would take over McGee. (no particular order)
1) Horford
2) Howard
3) Gasol
4) Bynum
5) Other Gasol (Pau – since he’s played C for them before)
6) Chandler
7) Jordan (same skills main difference he’s stronger and plays like it)
8) Noah
9) Hibbert
10) Bogut (when healthy of course)
11) Greg Monroe
12) Cousins
i’ll just stop there.
Title should read:
Wizards Fall to Orlando Magic: This One Falls Squarely on the Refs
by ABOVETHELAW on Feb 2, 2012 12:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Young completely blew up in the 4th quarter, but its hard to excuse his breaking the offense in the 1st three quarters of the game.
It just didn’t seem to me that Young was in that much…. or had that much of an impact to be “blamed” for the Loss…. and for “breaking” the Wizards Offense for most of the game.
So I went back and watched the game (in fast forward mode)….
Yeah – he was playing poorly…. in the first quarter.. Missed some shots.. mostly on isolations (one-on-one)… Again, I am very disappointed in his regression to the “old” Nick Young…
Anyways, he picked up his 2nd foul with 3:29 left to play in the first quarter… He had played 8:31 by then and was 1-5 from the field… with a couple turn overs… The Wizards were behind by 11… and Young was 1-3 from the field with 2 personal fouls and 2 turn overs.
He came back in with 3:08 left in the 2nd Quarter, missed his only shot attempt, picked up his 3rd foul, and left less than a minute after he came in….and did not return for the rest of the 2nd quarter.
In the 3rd quarter, he played ONE MINUTE and made his only shot attempt, before he picked up his 4th foul… and had to leave… He did not return in the 3rd quarter at all.
He did not return until 10:42 left in the 4th quarter…. Through 3 quarters, Nick played about 10 minutes (mostly at the very beginning of the game)….. so to say he broke the “offense in the 1st three quarters of the game” is hardly accurate.
I’d agree that he “broke” he offense for the first 8 minutes of the game…. but he didn’t play the rest of the game until the last part of the 4th quarter… when he scored 20 points in a little over 10 minutes…. So to say he broke the offense for 3 quarters is not fair… and not accurate.
I would also imagine that the Orlando Magic had a much better chance of winning this game if the Wizards highest scorer (Nick Young) and their best shot blocker and rebounder (McGee) were both unable to play, due to foul trouble….
As for McGee:
I will be less harsh on McGee, because some of the fouls that were called on him for guarding Dwight Howard were borderline unbelievable. However, he completely shrank from his matchup with Howard (one again) and made the same repeated errors that necessitate his immediate benching.
Again – as I remember the game, it seemed that JaVale couldn’t get anything going because he was continually in foul trouble… Not because he “shrank” from his matchup.. or made errors that got him benched…
McGee picked up two quick fouls in the first 7 minutes of the game… He left immediately after picking up his 2nd foul (not because of any error, or poor play)… and did not return for the rest of the first quarter.
He played about 5 minutes at the end of the second quarter, until he picked up his 3rd foul…. He wasn’t playing particularly well but he did have a couple tip in shots… and a couple rebounds… but Dwight Howard had only 2 defensive rebounds and no points during that time… McGee picked up his 3rd foul, and immediately left the game… again, not because of any defensive lapses, or errors, or poor play, but because of his fouls.
McGee started the 3rd quarter, but after about a minute, he picked up his 4th foul and had to leave… again, he left because of a foul… not because of any poor play. He did not return again in the third quarter…
In the 4th Quarter, McGee had 2 points and 3 defensive rebounds.. He did have one (close) goal tending call. He picked up his 5th foul with about 3 minutes left… Howard had 4 points, 6 defensive rebounds and a turn over in that span….
So for the most part, McGee was saddled with foul trouble the whole game… At no time did I see him “benched” for errors, effort or poor play. Every time he was removed from the game, it was IMMEDIATELY after picking up another foul.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 2, 2012 1:16 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
He had played 8:31 by then and was 1-5 from the field… should say 1-3
Young was actually 1 for 3 when he was replaced after his 2nd foul….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
So in conclusion...
Perhaps if Nick Young and JaVale McGee could have refrained from excessive touch fouling – the Wizards may have had a better chance of winning the game…
Had they been able to stay in the game, it’s certainly possible they could have gotten into a better rhythm. I can’t imagine it’s easy to make shots, p[lay defense, rebound or block shots when you’re only in for a minute at a time before you commit another touch foul that gets you sent to the bench…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 2, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Imagine - in a perfect NBA
Where moving screens are called evenly. Where Super Star players are called for traveling, charging and hacking, just like the other players in the League…
Would tonight’s game have had a different outcome if Dwight Howard was called for every moving screen he set? If a foul was called every time he touched a player in the lane? Remember, the rule states that you cannot make contact with an offensive player.
Actually the rule specifically states: “Contact initiated by the defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearm, hands, or body”
That’s it… nothing more.. nothing less… It does not limit the contact to “heavy” contact… or contact that impedes the offensive player…. ANY contact, even light contact is supposed to be called a personal foul.
Do you suppose the game would have turned out differently had the rules been applied as they are written?
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Rook take a look at Young's shots prior to his explosion in the 4th quarter
None of his shots came within the flow of the offense. In fact, Young was breaking the offensive flow during the brief duration when he as in the game. Even the shots he made in the early going were contested, including the one that got him to the line. Compare that to how Crawford played, and how he got his teammates involved and move the ball. The problem isn’t the points, the problem is that he remains completely one dimensional.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
what flow are you talking about?
I agree of course that Nick is one dimensional, but how much of this flow was really just JCraw hitting shots he has generally missed this season? If by flow you mean Crawford passes better, absolutely no doubt- hell he passes better than Wall. But at the same time I dont think we have an offensive flow really, it all depends on if anyone has the hot hand- that’s all our offense is
I think if you looked at the way the second unit was running the game
and the way the ball movement was making things easier for Seraphin on the inside, while also allowing Crawford to get get open and set from 3pt is a vast difference from the starting unit, who as soon as NY gets the ball begin to stand around because they know that will not get the ball back. Now, blame can fall on both the shoulders of Young and Wall for this type of pattern, but the distribution in the second unit was simply because of “scrappy, hustle play,” it was because they were actually playing fundamentally sound team basketball.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
To be fair...the first team stops and stands around when almost
anyone gets the ball…Blatche, Young, McGee….Because those three usually only move to get themselves the ball, and once one of the them gets it, everyone assumes a shot is on the way.
That is the team’s fault, not Nick Young breaking the flow of the game. So while you are right about the lack of ball movement, I don’t think all of that is on Nick.
As I said in the game thread, I think the reason the second team moves the ball more is because none of them are convinced they can score from anywhere (outside of Crawford, who has improved the last few games in terms of shot selection so I will include him as well at this point). They all try to move the ball to get the best shot…sometimes to a fault.
What we need is the second team’s mentality with the first teams more talented players….the way to do that is keep them on the bench when they don’t move the ball, and not take them out as soon as the game gets close. Looks like Wittman is almost there.
I have to disagree David
Lewis and (to a degree) Vesely both attempt to keep the ball moving to find the open shot. The problem is the first team, and this was true when Blatche was starting as well, is that Wall makes the first pass and then the shot goes up. Wall never gets the ball back. Its also an issue when two of our centerpiece bigs, stI don’t think the second unit fears their lack of offensive capability, as much as they are making a concerted effort to run the plays as designed and find the open man.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
dropped a sentence
It is also and issue when two of our centerpiece bigs (Blatche/McGee) often don’t reset the play after grabbing the rebound, thus leaving the wingmen/guards standing around for prolonged periods
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
One could could make the further argument
that committing those fouls are in and of themselves an example of poor play. Further, one has to look at the productivity and positioning of the team while McGee as on the floor, and questions whether his positioning and awareness led Orlando to taking their early lead, along with the poor play of Wall, Vesely, and Young
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Feb 2, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair
A foul can be called every time down the court. The refs CHOSE to call the fouls on the Wiz and chose NOT to call the fouls on the Magic. If you called the game by the letter of the book, I’m pretty sure every defender on every play commits some sort of foul, and most of the offensive players too! In the abstract, though, you’re right – committing fouls not “good” play – but in the concrete, I think the way the game was officiated was, at best, slanted.
by jakenbake on Feb 2, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mcgee was completely jobbed last night
which maybe wouldnt have made a difference, but it’s still the fact of the matter. At least 3 of his fouls were on Howard and complete garabge relative to what Howard was getting away with simultaneously
I think it's easier to say those things because they go with the narrative of the season
Facts be damned, this is the internet!
by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 2, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Not true
They have played better as of late, and the Bobcats are the worst team I have ever watched.
by p.robb87 on Feb 2, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Still have to disagree
When they play like shit I think everybody on does a good job of stating that, but to not acknowledge their hustle and hardwork is something different, and the reason people are complainning about the foul disparity is because it may or may not have but more likely may been the reason we still only have 4 wins on the season.
by p.robb87 on Feb 2, 2012 3:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mcgee was just saddled by fouls not poor play
Seraphin is built like all the dudes who have given Howard trouble over the years Perkins, Big baby, dudes with thick legs and buts who can stay low relative to leverage up under him lock him off the deep paint.
didn’t see anything that surprised me with Seraphin he got some easy baskets off up dishes and got a follow up dunk once Howard was contesting a shot. I think he made 1 short jumper.
Seraphin grabbed 7 boards in 22 minutes a solid game.
Not sure that vidicates ernie with one half decent performance when he has had so many terrible ones this season.
I think he can be a solid back up big thats about it. Not all match ups favor him his lack of length and lift will be a drawback some times.
Mcgee got a bunch of touch fouls bad calls. Mcgee is a long player not real strong in the lower body playing against Howard without the ability to push back will be a challenge for him.
This game was won by the refs giving the Magic all the calls it occasionally happens in the course of a season where the refs completely rob a team out of a game nothing to be real alarmed by, It happens.
by jazzy1 on Feb 2, 2012 1:43 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Honestly think it would have not mattered
If McGee did not have the fouls for some reason he just does not play up to elite comp yea you can talk about stats, but most of the time those come after the game is over in the 3rd quarter. He never or at least I never seen him try to back down Howard or any of the other big Centers in the league I mean dude can’t even play up to Salembert ugh. I am a skeptic not a believer, yet anyway.
A Different Take on the Game
I was in bar prep this evening, so I didn’t catch all of the game. I had it on gamecast my iphone so I could see score I agree that the starters didn’t play well, and I agree that the refs really hurt us. However, I think there’s one other person who deserves blame.
I think Randy Whitman let the team and particularly his starters down. As an NBA coach, when there is that degree of a foul disparity, it’s your job to let the referees know it. Part of the job of an NBA coach is to work the referee. Phil Jackson was a master at doing so. Coach K is amazing at it at the college level. As previously mentioned, this is only the 9th time in NBA regular season history this kind of foul disparity has happened. How is Whitman not whispering 5 to 1 in the referees ear after the first quarter? Whitman didn’t do this job tonight. This is a game where you have to take a technical. You have to shame the refs into calling the game better.
Additionally, one of the jobs of an NBA coach is to stick up for his players. I talked to a public defender who was very animated and aggressive during preliminary hearings. Defense attorneys rarely win at preliminary hearings, so he doesn’t do it to get a win. Instead, he thinks it’s important to show his client that he is fighting for them. This builds trusts, and later when he has a good plea deal, the client trust him enough to take it. I think being an NBA coach is somewhat similar.
Randy Whitman needed to stick up for his starters. He needed to show them that when the refs are terrible, he’s got their backs. He needs to establish trust with them. He needs this not just for this game, but later when he asks them to sacrifice for the good of the team. Why should John Wall drive into a giant like Dwight Howard? Especially if he’s going to get hacked across both arms without a call?
You could tell that John Wall was upset about what happened. The reason was because the coach didn’t do his job. I’ll give Randy Whitman some credit for his substitution patterns. But, he didn’t stick up for his team and he didn’t work the refs effectively. This one is partially on him.
by GJennings on Feb 2, 2012 1:49 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
And it's not like he didn't know there was a Free Throw disparity...
Wittman noted that his team led in every statistical category "except free throws!"
He added, "Gosh darn, we’re playing hard."
From Wizards insider…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
If you wnat to see a sharp contrast
See how Rick C responded to his officiating in the Mavs-Thunder game. I’m not saying we should be in Cuban-ville, but our bench didn’t do enough to get their message across.
by GJennings on Feb 2, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rook and Fagan
Your debate should be cut and pasted for a front page article. Good stuff by I have to jump all around to follow it. My take: the Ref’s blow.
I hate to be the guy defending refs
Because I was wigging OUT on them last night..
I just remember hearing that this is the most inexperienced stable of Refs the NBA has ever had (or at least in a long time) and that their schedule is even more brutal than the players this year.
It’s still inexcusable, but games like this are going to be par for the course (ok..maybe double bogey) this year and illustrate how the NBA’s greed in scheduling 66 games in 120 days was a mistake. That non-call on the Wall drive at the end (the 3rd in the 2nd half) was awful though. Wall’s 1 for 12 night doesn’t count IMO. Guy got hacked every play. Refs call fair games between good & bad teams every night, saying that “The Wizards would get calls if they were better” doesn’t mean anything. The Wizards were undoubtedly the better team tonight despite the Magic doing everything they do well AND Howard getting hot at the line for once.
It must suck for Whitman to have to manage the head cases on this roster. Nothing from the first 3 quarters suggested that Wall & McGee should play the entirety of the 4th quarter. Mack & Seraphin were playing extremely well but got sat down because Wall & McGee would throw a fit if they didn’t play in the 4th- Can you really think of another reason why? I thought after Magic came out swinging and dominated the Wiz at the beginning of the 4th that Whitman would throw caution to the wind and bring in the lineup that seemed most capable of winning this game, but once again all that talk of accountability seemed to dissipate when it counted. Wall just seemed to want to drive to the hole repeatedly so he could make a compilation tape of when he got fouled to send to the NBA with a frowny face sticker. Mack seemed more understanding of how the Wiz needed to play to overcome the refs.
Kevin Seraphin was + 13. Javale McGee was 22. Single +/ stats really don’t mean a damn thing but in this case it seemed clear who was holding down the middle better. The last few games have got me pretty freakin excited about Kevin Seraphin going forward.
Commendable 4th quarter for Young though
Dude played junky in the first 3 quarters, I was having fun pointing out to my wife the ways that he struggles to get around defenders.
But when he is feeling it.. Good lord! Nailing some insane shots at the end. Hero Ball didn’t exactly work at the end of this game, but it entertained me as I stroked my albino Tiger pelt and supped of the nectar of the Gods in Wayne Manor.
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