would you redo the first round 2011 picks
by everybodylookin on Feb 1, 2012 3:13 PM EST
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PrintI like some of the stuff I've seen from Vesely and Singleton, but in my own opinion I think this team would be in a much better position if they used the 6th pick on Kawhi Leonard and the 18th pick on Marshon Brooks.
Kawhi;s averaging 7 and 5 in just 24 minutes a game and is much more polished than Vesely. I think he could potentially be like Gerald Wallace in the future.
Marshon Brooks would bring badly needed shooting to this team, while shooting a high %. He's like Nick Young but he can actually rebound. I think in the future he could be similar to Kevin Martin. He's already much better than Crawford
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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You would have traded 6, 18 and 2012 first for Kanter?
The price was our 6th pick; our 18th pick; AND our first round pick for next season.(next season refers to this season)
Yeah
That Trade was insane. We made the right call in holding. There are better big men prospects in this year draft than Enes Kanter.
That's just Ted wining
Okur was traded for a future second rounder. We could have taken him, 6,18 and 34 and maybe even take on any other contract they would have liked to get rid off. We could have given them a lottery proteced 2012 or a top 8 protected 2013. And I haven’t even talked about Minnie.
Point being, losers complain about why they fail to get where they wanted to go. Winners get stuf done. Period.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 1, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How is this wining
He said that stated price was too high and that’s it. Your trade idea is also far too much. For a team with as many holes as the Wizards you don’t trade away your entire draft for Enes Kanter.
Now their are players worth trading away an entire draft for but Enes Kanter is not even remotely close to being one of them.
Whether you call it wining or not is semantics. Fact is, they didn't get it done.
We didn’t know Singleton would fall to 18 or that Mack would be this good. So don’t tell me it was Ernie planning on drafting Chris, he fell into him, ass backwards. You can (and we did) find good value there but overall, changes are you dónt find a core piece at those slots. So trading them away is playing the %.
With Wall, Crawford, Blatche, Mcgee, Young, Booker, Seraphin and Kanter in this scenario, we would have enough young players that would be better helped if we surrounded them by vets like Pryzbilla, Hinrich etc.
If you think that team would still have to many holes to trade for Kanter then I agree but that’s on Ernie drafting Booker, Seraphin and trading away Hinrich for Crawford.
As for Kanter, he plays about 15mpg and has the 5th best total rebound rate in the entire NBA and a higher true shooting % than McGee for example. All that wile being a rookie and competing with a breakout yr Milsapp, a perenial 20-10 guy in Jefferson and a the emerging Favors. No small task imho.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
The 18th pick had a lot of value this year
Turned out to be Singleton, which was awesome, but EG knew that there would be some good talent available. Guys like Iman Shumpert, Norris Cole, Tobias Harris, MarShon Brooks, Tyler Honeycutt, Jordan Hamilton, Kenneth Faried, etc. were expected to be available. It’s not like Singleton was the only good player who could have been taken at 18.
Here's the quote
"We were very surprised at the price" to move up," Leonsis said. "I mean, to move up a couple of slots, they wanted our 6th, 18th and 34th pick, or 6, 18 and our first-pick next year. And that just seemed off strategy, and I think that’s important, to stay on strategy. And we want young players."
Do you have a link?
I’ve heard that claimed several times here, but never seen it in any articles.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Retry
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
That link says nothing about the offer being 6, 18 and 34
only mentions 6, 18 and 2012 first
Yeah, you're right. And it only makes his complaint looks worse in my opinion.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Because it was even cheaper without the #34
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
I think you misread
He said 6, 18 and our 2012 1st round pick, the high lottery pick in one of the strongest drafts in a while, a really valuable asset
No, I thought we originally talked about 6,18,34 and 2012 pick
But it doesn’t really matter.
I would not have traded the 2012 first unless it was lottery protected. What I am saying is that good teams no what they need and find a way to get it. That could be trading up, down or out but whatever they do, they get the core piece they need. We did not.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like thats an easy way out argument
“If we had a good GM he would have figured out a way to make a deal that, to the best of our knowledge, wasn’t on the table”
by Llamaman on Feb 3, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In this draft, 6th 18th and 34 was not too high
and we probably could have bought another pick for 2mm or so
You have to have someone in the front court that can rebound.
And we need starters. Our bench is better than our starters regularly
by les boulez bomber on Feb 6, 2012 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know how to
STRAIGHT CASH HOMIE
by everybodylookin on Feb 1, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I would have gotten Kawhi Leonard over Vesely
Other than that, I wouldn’t change anything from last year. Singleton will be a solid player. He was a steal.
Just wanted to say
This argument is basically:
1. We picked players x and y in the draft
2. Players A and B who are drafted after them are playing better.
3. We should have drafted players A and B.
But, we didn’t know players A and B were going to be better when the draft happened. This is time machine logic. I wasn’t a huge fan of the Jan V selection. I didn’t think it was absurd, but Leonard lasted another 9 picks in the draft for a reason. Jan V has a higher ceiling. Both are high motor players who lack refinement.
There’s a really great documentary called “The Brady Six,” which is about the 6 qbs selected in front of Tom Brady. It shows how team miss on players and why they select certain players ahead of others.
but you pay a GM millions of dollars to pick the right guys
not to tell you “but playerX was higher on everybody’s draft board than playerY!”
it’s also not a surprise that Marshon Brooks can shoot the ball so well and that was something we knew we needed but for some reason chose to ignore
I see your point
But Kawhi might have a higher ceiling than Jan because he’s 2 years younger but Jan has the advantage in athleticism.
And about Brooks I was thinking that this team should go after him before he even played a game because he already had an NBA ready game coming out of college. He also does everything that Nick does while being younger and on a rookie contract while Nick Young wants 9 million a year lol.
STRAIGHT CASH HOMIE
by everybodylookin on Feb 1, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Jonathon Givony on Brooks
On the same note, I’m also surprised by the way that Marshon Brooks has risen up the boards. He was a mid second-round pick six weeks ago, but then he started going through the process, he had good measurements, he had a good showing at the combine, and his stock has really, really risen to the point that he’s probably going to be a mid-first-round pick. He might have gone at 45 six weeks ago. I think history tells you that that’s always a bit of a red flag.
I watched him play extensively this season in person and on tape and I wonder if he’s going to be able to get away with some of the things that he did at Providence, the way he monopolizes the ball, his shot selection, the tunnel-vision he shows, the bad body language, the lack of enthusiasm for playing defense. But I felt the same way about Nick Young, I felt the same way about Jordan Crawford, these guys end up having NBA careers. Whether they’re the most efficient players, whether they end up helping their team win games, that’s up for debate. Draft Express
It’s too early to tell if anyone missed out on Brooks, and the Wizards had greater needs than a 3rd SG.
what needs does Jan Vesely fill?
Possibly backup PF in 2015?
by DCrez on Feb 2, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ahahahahahahahahahahahaah
couldn’t agree more
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
The Wizards had greater needs than a 3rd SG
Like a 3rd SF?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 1, 2012 5:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
reply fail to djnnnou
I agree though, that Brooks wasn’t the right pick.
We needed rebounding, interior defense, perimeter defense. A combo of Kanter and Singleton would have been ideal imho, but to get Kanter, it would have probably costed us 18. We didn’t know Singleton was going to fall that far though, so I would have traded that one away without blinking. Perimeter defense is something you can trade for or sign an FA for more easily than it is to get a quality bigmen.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 1, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he is.
As a rookie with no summer league, preseason or even a college year to build upon, Kanter has played about 15mpg dispite competition form Favors, Millsap and Jefferson for minutes. He has the 5th best total rebound rate in the entire NBA and a higher true shooting % than McGee
He isn’t a highlight reel and never will be but he is would have been a double-double guy on our team right now and a fantastic compliment to McGee because he can hold the paint as McGee roams around on help D while also having the offensive versitilty (lowpost+range to 20t) to fit Javale and Wall.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
McGee needs a more mobile PF
McGee chases blocks outside the paint, so he needs a mobile PF to cover his back. That’s why Booker and Vesely work with JaVale defensively.
He's slow with little athleticism
It may be the case that he can lose some body mass and gain some speed, but right now he’s only a very good rebounder, not a quality big man and not someone worth multiple first round picks to obtain. And playing Kanter and McGee together would be a disaster. McGee can’t defend outside of the paint.
I dissagree, Kanter would have been an excellent fit with Javale
Because he they got complementary attributes.
Transition: Wall and McGee can run but SOMEONE has to rebound the basketball and outlet first. I would say that a top 5 rebounder as a rookie suits that role.
Halfcourt: Kanter has the polished lowpost game we currently lack in Blatche. When Javale is on the block Kanter has the ability to step out and hit a 17,18 footer. This also helps him in the pick&pop and pick&roll, plus he sets solid screens.
Defense: Kanter can already hold the post better than McGee can plus he would allow Javale to do what he does best, roam the paint and provide weakside help D.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 3, 2012 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
Sebastian Pruiti also disagrees with you.
When Kanter posts up, he scores 0.474 points per possession. That number is in the bottom 5 percent of all NBA players. He also shoots 24.1 percent in the post. Grantland
For a kid that didn't play last yr, had no off season and who has 3 studs to compete with for PT
he is doing pretty good and if he was on our team, he would have had more chances to show what he got.
He already does 1 thing at an elite level (rebounding) and nodbody dissagrees he has great foot work and polished postmoves. For now, the game seems to go a little to fast for him as he is adjusting to the NBA game.
You don’t have to agree with me, but I really think he could be a double doulble guy as a rookie had he played for us and will be a 20-10 guy in year 2 or 3. There’s only about 5 guys who legitimately average 2010 every season and he is going to be a regular imho
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 5, 2012 7:08 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is that Utah demands THIS YEAR'S 1st round pick from the Wiz too
so instead of Jan + Singleton + Mack + (Davis/ Drummond/ Sullinger/ Lamb/ Barnes), we will just have Enes Kanter, not saying he’s not a good player but he’s no Dwight Howard, and therefore the price is super high
If the 76ers can do it with a deep roster, i think the above 4 players definitely will play some important roles if we get 1 – 2 good players from FA/ trades
Ted's losers talk
See my reply above. Basically: losers complain about why they lost. Winners get things done.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry to be off topic, but...
You can’t possibly believe that, can you? Is life really that simple? Winners win and losers lose and that’s it?? So, suddenly, this year, the Lakers and Celtics are losers (because they couldn’t get CPaul, etc.) but a few years ago they were winners? I mean, life’s slightly more complicated than that, right?
by Kenny Sky Walker on Feb 2, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a very narrow minded person
;-)
No, but what I mean is, good teams would have found a way to get what they need. Kanter was my personal favorite but there are other possibilities. Trading back/out and get a core piece (Paul George, Cousins I dunno) they thinjk they needed. Or Maybe trading for the #6 + asset for a 2012 pick from a likely lotto team. The possibilities are endless, point being, they didn’t get something done.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Feb 2, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I really want Mike Scott from UVA
This draft, if we can get barnes or kidd-G, then get scott I will be so pleased
Kidd-Gilchrist would be a horrible fit on this team because of his lack of a consistent shot
Harrison Barnes would be a good fit, but I’d rather have Jared Sullinger because I think he could be like Elton brand in his prime
STRAIGHT CASH HOMIE
by everybodylookin on Feb 1, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
i like barnes because he fits better with wall
wall is so dependent on fast break point….and sullinger cant play that type of ball
i love sullinger’s game though
Enduring the pain of wizards basketball....one game at a time
Kawhi Leonard was a more polished player than Vesely
I’m not sure if the thought process was that Vesely’s ceiling is higher, but Leonard is clearly a better all around player right now than Vesely. Maybe this won’t be the case in 3 years, but on draft night Leonard was much more of a sure thing.
Vesely was more of a gamble so we’ll see how it plays out in time.
I think Leonard would have been a much safer pick.
That being said we were very fortunate to fall into Singleton at 18, which largely erases the gamble on Vesely. Mack was also a steal in the 2nd round. It was a good draft even if Vesely doesn’t work out.
We should reserve judgement on Vesley for a couple more seasons. Everyone knew he was a project coming in.
He's NBA ready in some ways and isn't in others
He’s very NBA ready in:
Defense (especially PnR D)
Offensive rebounding
Passing
Basketball IQ
He’s not NBA ready in:
Ball handling (but he’s shown promise in the one dribble power move)
Jumpshooting
Defensive rebounding
Strength
Not sure he was touted as NBA ready.............
Bottom line is you really don’t know with European players. It’s a little easier to scout guys with 2 or 3 years of college ball under their belts………….there’s plenty of tape of them playing against other future NBA level talent. With the Euro players that’s not always the case. So how does an evaluator make the determination that they’re NBA ready without seeing them compete against NBA level talent?
For every Dirk Nowitzki there are a bunch of Darko Milicic’s. There are plenty of European players who have either failed to transition or took a long time to develop.
Bottom line is he appears to be able to play. Hopefully he can work on his jumper and in 2 seasons has developed some intermediate game or the ability to play with his back to the basket.
Most people agree with the pics
Google 2011 NBA draft winners losers
I’d say over 80% of the results will have the wizards as Winners.
I will say though, i wanted kawai as well over vesely. I just dont think vesely will ever become a pure jump shooter. He doesn’t like to shoot, and he doesn’t have “touch” with the ball in his hands. YOu can’t play in the NBA without shooting touch, and either you got it or u dont. and he dont
by NotGivinUpOnDray on Feb 2, 2012 3:36 PM EST reply actions
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