On Slow Starts And The Need For A Change To Fix Them
There were lots of stories and quotes that came out of the Washington Wizards' 103-85 loss to the Orlando Magic on Wednesday night, but this one from Carla Peay's game story in the Washington Times caught my eye.
"In all our games, we’ve shot about 20 percent in the first quarter," Flip Saunders said. "We’re going to have to do something with our starters, personnel-wise or whatever, but somehow we’ve got to have some juice to start games."
Indeed, slow starts, among other things, have killed the Wizards. Since the New Jersey game, here are the first-quarter scores in the Wizards' other five losses:
- at Atlanta: 26-17, Hawks.
- at Milwaukee: 36-24, Bucks.
- vs. Boston: 28-17, Celtics.
- at Boston: 24-23, Wizards
- at Orlando: 31-14, Magic.
Perhaps more importantly, here are the scores after the first timeout called in the first quarter:
- at Atlanta: 11-0, Hawks
- at Milwaukee: 14-10, Bucks
- vs. Boston: 14-9, Celtics
- at Boston: 16-10, Celtics
- at Orlando: 9-0, Magic
In other words, the Wizards have been outscored by an average of 9.6 points in the first quarter and by an average of seven points before the first extended stoppage in play, which has often been caused by a Saunders timeout. That's really bad.
Doug Collins, the current coach of the Philadelphia 76ers, used to say as a broadcaster that the NBA is a first-quarter league, because that's when you can best measure if a team is ready to play. It's also the time of the game when teams establish what works and do whatever possible to get certain guys into the rhythm of the game. The Wizards are failing dramatically at this task, and while an NBA game is long, you can't really ask a team to catch up once they fall behind early.
Something does need to change to stop this trend. Saunders should consider some sort of lineup change to start. If that fails, then the problem is far bigger and falls directly on his inability to get his team ready to play.
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I still can't figure out why Flip loves our Starting Forwards so much.
Singleton and Booker are ready to play: When we are down by at least 10.
That appears to be Flips agenda.
I’m a little unsure about why he starts Lewis. I’m guessing it’s because he wants at least one veteran on the floor, but I’d be interested in seeing what Maurice Evans can do.
I’m fairly sure the reason he starts Blatche is that Blatche is the only guy on the roster who can command a double-team in the post, which opens up the offense.
I think the $23 million salary might have a little to do with it.
Ted and Ernie need to justify their highest paid player by at least having him in as a starter
"Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesely" - Jan Vesely
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 5, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I dissagree
He is here as a function of getting rid of Arenas.
If it is better for the team to not play him (or play him less) they should just sit him.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
trade reasons
the only reasonable idea for playing blatche is because ernie needs him to look good and pad stats so blatche’s trade value increases
by nhlnflnba18414 on Jan 5, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
mo evans
i’d like to see him play too but i think he’s hurt?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 5, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Worries about scoring
might be another part of it.
Lewis needs to get benches asap
I’m not even going to mention blatche. And please no more Roger mason. This team is so hard to watch. If flip doesn’t make a lineup change/tell his team to run every play I’m giving up hope on this so called rebuild.
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Jan 5, 2012 12:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The problem is that
not a single player (with the possible exception of JaVale) is playing even acceptably well.
Flip can’t just sit all of them for the whole game.
i like what Booker and Singleton are bringing to the table.
the excuse about lack of offense kinda falls on deaf ears given Flip’s current strategy is resulting in the worst offense in the nba.
and no, i dont necessarily think they are starters on a good nba teams, maybe their ceiling is rotation players….but on THIS team? look like starters to me
This would sent a strong message:
Start Mack, Singleton, Evans, Booker and McGee. Play them 35+ minutes. Give the bigmen backup minutes to Seraphin and Hamady the back up wing minutes to Evans and the back PG minutes to Wall (we have no one else, but make very clear that that is the ónly reason he get’s to see the floor)
Sit the rest.
See how they respond and let them earn their minutes back. Remove the one’s who react poorly from the starting line up permanently and let it be known they are on the trading block.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry about the score, it can't get any worse than being deadlast in offense with an 0-6 record.
Let’s see what these guys are made of.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Last I heard
(although I certainly may have missed something)
Hamady is in the D league and Evans is injured.
Well then, that fucks up my plan a little.
Still, you can play Lewis at the 4 a and have Booker and Seraphin take care of the minutes at 5.
It’s all about the message and the message is this: If you play hard, do as you have been told and compete, you’ll see the floor. Since the current starters have blown their assignment in a grotesk way, the back ups get a chance first. Show me what you got. O, and btw, the trading block is over there.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
"Whatch ya gonna do Ern, trade me? Bwhahaha!"
-Dray Blatche
but seriously, agree with you, has to be lineup change and Flip has now said there should be so he better deliver.
"Yes Dray, I am going to trade you"
“and if nobody calls, I’ll amnesty you. Close the door on your way out and good day to you sir”
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how many times
But Mike has said repeatedly you cannot amnesty someone in the middle of the season. But man I would love to see his face after that.
Did I say I'd amnesty him during the season?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 6, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
Booker at the 5??
He’s undersized at the 4. I’m going to have to start calling you DutchMASTER Hoopfan.
I know he is to small but the point is you reward him for his effort with minutes
And sit the ones that fail.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'd vote for Wall, Mason, Singleton, Lewis, McGree
start with small ball shooters, spread the floor.
like nick young said they won't win until theres some direction and to figure out some sort of game plan which is very disturbing saying that Flip is a veteran coach
So much hand-wringing and finger-pointing, when the #1 problem with the Wiz is clear.
There are a number of problems with the Wizards right now, but by far the #1 problem is Wall.
The NBA is a star’s league. The team with the best player on the court usually wins (unless the other team has three or more guys who really play well), and so far, the other team has had the best player(s). Wall has never been close to being the best player on the court.
That’s why Nick’s points about the team lacking direction and game plan are correct. I’m sure they have a game plan. But I’m guessing those game plans are built upon Wall being the key guy, and right now, he’s not doing it. If Wall doesn’t fill that role, then the team is rudderless and has no direction.
I know Flip’s philosophy is for Wall to set up others during the first part of the game and then get his scoring later. That is a correct basketball philosophy. But in the short term, to get Wall on track, I think the gameplan should be geared towards getting Wall off early.
Yea I agree
Wall at least at this point needs to get going early so he stays confident in his jumper and his ability to finish. After his 0-6 start last night it seemed like he expected his J to brick off back iron or his lay up to bounce out of the rim. Also you gotta cut Wall some slack. Its hard to initiate good ball movement and get assists when the other 4 players on the court are black holes that just jack up shots.
by Ron Carlos Jeines on Jan 5, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
John's gotta become a scorer
honestly he doesnt have the floor generalship(yet) or teamates(yet) to be a distribute first PG right now. And it’s getting really noticeable imo that he doesnt look for Javale, really hope i’m seeing something that’s not there
I've thought for a while
(since last year) that JaVale is not exactly his favorite player.
Could be, I suppose, that he’d rather have his boy in JaVale’s place.
what u guys fail to realize
John Wall is a pass first point guard which many of you seem to forget he’s never been the big scorer besides the fast break. Game n game out he comes out trying to pass and when everyone misses he loses faith in them n trys to do to much like u guys want. He gets more hype off passing an oop or someone else scoring. Wall has major parts of his game that needs improvement no doubt, especially the body language. Coaching is major problem here people are playing that shouldn’t, or people are over playing. Theres no game plan you telling me that you me n my mom know Ray Allen is a pure shooter but yet we leave him open time n time again. Last night Dwight you know he’s gonna get his but yet you can’t stop anderson from torching you thats coaching.
I really doubt
leaving Ray Allen open was part of the game plan—or Flip’s fault.
Ditto with being torched by Anderson.
John Wall is a pass first point guard which many of you seem to forget he’s never been the big scorer besides the fast break. Game n game out he comes out trying to pass and when everyone misses he loses faith in them n trys to do to much
I totally agree with your view. He is a pass first PG who cán score if need be, but not all the time imo(at least not untill his J improves). Apart from that, there is no need to call people out saying they “fail to realize” to see things your way.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
saying wall is BY FAR the #1 problem seems a bit much
you’re letting young, lewis, blatche, mcgee and crawford off the hook. i’d love for wall to carry this team, but i don’t expect him to. replace wall with derrick rose and we still get blown out last night.
i see why you don’t like that jason reid column now.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm certainly not letting them off the hook
They are reasons 2, 3, 4, ….
What I’m saying is that stars matter more, and when your star is floundering, everything can fall apart (unless you have guys that step up (and no one has done that here)). Fix Wall, and the team will have a direction, and some other things will snap into place.
i agree to an extent
but keep in mind the team that won like 15 games with dwyane wade on it.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 5, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Game Plan
There were plenty of open shots. Starting a game by missing a bunch of uncontested shots and easy putbacks isn’t about game planning…unless the gameplan needs to change to "Nick Young going 1 on 5 and taking a bunch of contested shots" The awful thing is that NY prayer shots are going in at a better clip than Wall/Lewis open shots.
The problem is that this team isn't the former Les Boulez . . .
They’re the Washington Generals. But George Carlin was wrong – even with the Wiz you’ve got to but up with the “annoying, pre-season optimism bullshit.”
Honestly, I’m kind of hoping the Wizzies can go for a perfect 0-66 this year – if you’re going to do something (blow chunks), why not do it really well? I mean, Blatche/McGee/Wall/etc. are already totally committed to THIS plan.
all he has to do is see who is taking all the shots and what the plan is offensively.
Maybe he should start every game trying to get Mcgee a couple lobs or easy baskets get the team confidence going.
Maybe not call a wing curl for a long jumper by Nick Young or Lewis. Maybe run a set for a pin down for Blatche.
Funny how the only quarter they don’t fall behind in is the one Flip is not around for thinking about Mcgee’s comments it sorta looks like he has some credence on what he was saying.
But knowing Flip he’s gonna bench Mcgee and start Blatche and Booker at 4-5.
We all know the answer is to fire Saunders
Bench Blatche and Crawford. Get Jan, Singleton, and Mack in the Rotation. We also need to fire Ernie G. To change the culture of this franchise. Trade Blatche as well. Can’t stand him.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Jan 5, 2012 12:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Front Office
I think the problem is less with Saunders and more with the front office. We’ve seen coaches and players change over the years but the culture is still the same. No accountability. Whats the common factor? The front office.
by blackdog3377 on Jan 5, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Knowing our luck
We’d go up by 20 every game
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Jan 5, 2012 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Change is needed, but bear in mind
Sometimes we have an illusion – whoever not on the floor can play that much better. We see what happens to Seraphin last night. (or Singleton on Pierce)
Don’t get your hope too high. We are still awful..i mean have room for improvement in many areas.
by isum on Jan 5, 2012 12:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
For sure, but it's worth trying
Because if that fails, then we know for sure the problems are far bigger.
Correct.
We need to know what we have with our young assets that we value so highly. We’ve spent a lot of 1st round picks recently and we need to figure out ASAP if they are to keep or can be flipped.
"Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesely" - Jan Vesely
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 5, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Singleton was on Pierce for about 3 minutes....gotta give him a shot to adjust right?
but to your point….no doubt we’ll suck after Flip is gone, but if we at least look organized and coherent while we lose that’s a huge improvement
But Singleton
Getting torched by Pierce is easier to stomach than Lewis getting torched by Pierce. At least there’s the possibility of it helping his development.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Flip & Ernie
Why get rid of them?
They don’t shoot the ball.
I watched the Low lights on CSN after the game.
Looked like a Boys Club try out.
The main problem with this team is that no one wants to play TEAM ball — and they can’t make a shot.
In the first Q they had a few good looks but threw up bricks.
How can PROS shoot 20% ?
That’s not Ernie or Flips fault.
Also I think it would be good to sit Wall for a game or 2 and see if he can figure out what he can do to help instead of hurt the team.
When you go down by 10 in the first Q - sit the starters and bring in someone that has some WANT TO.
by VBfan on Jan 5, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
have to disagree man
I don’t know what your watching. he builds the team (ernie) and he coaches the team (flip). No motivation flip no idea how to build Ernie both gotta go
The answer is better players
but where are they coming from? I haven’t seen many suggestions on this board or in the media for what the Wizards should do other than they can’t wait. Suggestions here are usually met with reasons why they are bad ideas.
Simmons of ESPN had some ideas in a column about the Wizard’s amnestying Lewis and then picking up some lower tier free agents (who I don’t remember now). For example, Humphries is better than Blatche. I think Hickson is better than Blatche. On and on. The problem is our front office is trying to pull of the PERFECT rebuild and create a team of good young players who fill every position exactly.
It is cheaper to keep Lewis than amnesty him because he has a $10mm buyout next year and a $20mm salary if amnestied.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 5, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Flip (pun intended) Blatche and Seraphin for Mayo and Henry
Grizz need bigmen depth and seem to include Mayo in every trade for some reason. Mayo is capable of playing off the ball, can shoot, and if need be create for himself or others (taking pressure off of Wall). Henry is a good shooter and more of a classic ‘off the ball’ 2 guard. He’s a 2010 lottery pick who had a poor rookie season but he is far better than this.
Then, put Nick and Lewis on the block as expiring contracts (Lewis team option) and see what you can get for them. A semi usefull veteran big on a short contract + a #1 should be atainable. If a trade can be made, try to include Crawford as a through in.
Keep Wall, Mack, Mayo, Henry, Vesely, Singleton and Booker and resign McGee (if he proges to be worth it this season. Looking good so far) Try to trade up to get two lottery picks using a combination of cash, capspace, the multiple #1 and #2 round picks we have and the young players except for Wall and McGee.
Then sign good veterans to fill in the remaining needs (not Mason and Evans type’s but usefull Kirk Hinrich, Chris Humphries types). Young players must be complimented with good vets in the rotation who know how to play.
Next yr see how the 2 lottery picks develope, how Wall developes and and if other young guys fit the picture. If a chance unveils itself, don’t be afraid to make a big trade for an (fringe) all star
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Look I am down for the rebuild.
But I remember a time when Amare’ Stoudemire said he would look good in a wizards uniform he was a free agent the same year we had the #1 pick which turned out to be John Wall. I honestly think we kind of missed our ship on that one. Two if we would had gotten off to the start the Knicks had got off to when Amare’ scored at lest 30 a night for like 30 games straight I think if anything it would have boosted Gil value even more. I mean you can call me crazy because this is a public forum but I think if Ernie and Ted were going to give a big contract out it should have been Amare’ and not blatche.
We need a #1 star
Wall isn’t it. He is a complimentary star. I think McGee could be a third piece.
Where is that star – a scoring wing would be ideal – going to come from? I have no idea. Praying for a very high draft pick. We need to find our Durant.
That's the storyline of this season so far
Is Wall a #1 guy? Or is he a #2? Far too early to tell, but I think many of us assumed that he would be a #1 guy. So far this season (six games only, without much of a training camp, let’s not forget), that assumption is starting to look slightly shaky.
You may be correct that our new big 3 will be:
Number 1 — To be determined. Perhaps the Wiz’s 2012 lottery pick.
Number 2 — Wall
Number 3 — McGee. (I’ve been very impressed with him so far this season.)
well, that throws the entire rebuild into serious doubt.
because we could easily go 0-66 and still not land a #1 guy in this draft.
You cant buy them. This is not (European) soccer
You either trade for one, but remember: it costs a lot to get a lot (see NY Knicks)
You sign a bigtime FA, but remember: he has to be willing to sign here (not likely)
Ór you draft one, but remember: A Kwame-Risk-Syndrome hides in every highly touted draft stud
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
God, this team is awful
This team looks great on paper but, they look terrible on the court. I am beginning to long for the good ol’ days when Jamison, Butler and Arenas could at least play somewhat competitive. Now I just feel embarrassed for these guys. How is it possible to get worse every year?
I think that the guys feel embarrassed too...
They are just rudderless. We all know the implications of this, and we continue to state them in oh so many ways.
There will be opportunities to make deals as the tight schedule takes its toll on other teams’ key players or exposes weaknesses that we might help them fill… or problems to take off their hands.
Memphis might need Blatche now. Sacramento might really need to shed Cousins. The Wolves could use a productive 2-guard and need to move Beasley to free up minutes for their younger SFs. Cleveland probably would give up Jamison to free up PF for Trey Thompson. That is all stuff for EG to evaluate.
But the first problem is getting the guys we have, especially the guys we want to keep, to play a style that fits them and to start to experience a little success that will make them enjoy the game that is their profession. Flip is not making this happen. Someone else might do better, and certainly they could not do worse.
When you consider that for all of the awful things that this franchise has done over the last 32 years, and then consider that none of the previous incarnations went 0-6 (soon I fear to be 0-7) out of the gate, the fact is that we have now reached the bottom of the barrel. We are, point blank, the worst team in the NBA. Everybody who follows this sport or reports on it knows this. They are laughing up their sleeve at us.
The legendary Beat poet, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, once wrote the classic line, “I am waiting for Ike to act.” Well, this old hippie is waiting for Ted to act.
by khrabb on Jan 5, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd, especially for Ferlinghetti
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
at least the sense of dread and impending doom we all feel as each tip nears is exhilirating.
i’m actually worried about what i may witness tomorrow night at VC. i can laugh at having that feeling i guess, pretty funny to be that comically bad
Create an offense that generates assists and not one on one plays
and if players don’t throw atleast three passes before a shot goes up take them out….if the coach can’t get them to do it, who’s next?
Ultimately you have to ask yourself
Would Nate McMillian be winless with this roster?
Would Rick Adelman have found a way to win a game or two?
I believe there are at least a dozen coaches who would have 2 wins with this team. Why does Flip break out the trap unit in a 20-point blowout with under 2 minutes to go in the 4th QTR? Where was that in the 2nd QTR?
Flip just isn’t resourceful enough to work with the few strengths this team does have: good team speed, low turnovers (lately at least) and decent length.
Is Flip even trying anymore or does he want to be fired?
Ted WANTS TO LOSE AS MANY GAMES AS POSSIBLE…Saunders may be in a tough position
I think Flip is trying to balance different goals, and it is reflected in his rotations. But he is counting the minutes like everyone else on this team save Ernie.
No one wants to go through this and will leave at the first crack of light. That much I am sure.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 5, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
people keep saying the draft is the answer
okay, we get a good draft pick…..who’s going to teach them how to play in the NBA…If no one is teaching now, why or what makes anyone think they can teach the next draft pick how to play once they get here….time for changes, before we bring anything else here
That's why we need a few core young guns (a la Wall, 2012 lottery pick and McGee) a few usefull ones (Singleton and Booker) and 4 or 5 GOOD vets (like Hinrich)
to teach them
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Who taught kevin durant how to play at OKC? Nick Collison? Please.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 5, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To put an exclamation point on Mike's comments
In 6 games, the Wizards have played a bit over 28 minutes of basketball before the first time out.
In that time, they shot 36% from the field (17-47), blew 9 layups, committed 6 turn overs, had 5 shots blocked, committed 2 goal tending violations and 4 defensive three second violations.
I went back and watched all 6 games (until the first time out)… and counted only 6 possessions where the Wizards made more than two passes. The VAST MAJORITY of the Wizards possessions consist of John Wall bringing the ball up the court and either shooting, or passing to a teammate who immediately shoots. No ball movement.
36% from the field.
9 blown lay ups
turn overs and violations galore
It’s almost comical how bad these Wizards at the start of games.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Jan 5, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
That's disturbing.
Thanks for watching and counting.
I think the elephant in the room is being ignored
We’d all love to blame shard, blatche, and all the usual guys. The truth is that everyone is playing like shit, john wall perhaps most of all. I love the kid and his attitude, but the fact is that he has been a major contributing factor to this team’s awful start.
by zl on Jan 5, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
he looked better last night when no longer cared about constantly getting everyone involved
and did his own thing….score first for now John, and pass the Javale the ball
The elephant in the room is Ted. It is his show.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And he has good size for his role too ;-)
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, unnessasarily hurtfull coment. My bad
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
flip just gave his job description in the statement above
this has been a problem for longer than just this season. he has more tools than last year. his actions are the answer to the problem.
somehow got in Flip's doghouse
probably laughed at something Javale said, no longer allowed to play.
i really believe
that if Mack plays, he will cause a problem at the point. from the little time that he has played, i have seen NY go off on offense….not so good when he plays with JWall at the point. that is just my non-nba level observation
by dmv4life on Jan 5, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree with the blame Wall crowd
I’d look decent at PG if I was passing to HOFs Allen and Pierce for threes and Garnett for mid-range jumpers. Those guys are so good that the defender has to think defend pass first. This is what allows Rondo to get wide open looks driving to the basket. You want anything to happen but Allen, Pierce, or Garnett to get the ball. Anything.
Put Rondo on this team and he would look every bit as bad as Wall.
If that were true
assist numbers for pg’s would change drastically when they change teams. but that doesn’t happen.
by zl on Jan 5, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I do
Jason Kidd in 07-08. Went from a bad nets team to a very good mavs team. His ast per36 went down from 10.1 to 9.8
This isn’t changing teams, but as Steve Nash’s supporting cast in Phoenix has gotten worse and worse, his assist numbers have only gotten better.
Gary Payton went from a great Lakers team in 2004 to a solid Celtics team in 2005 and his assist numbers went up from 5.7 to 6.6 per36
Overall, an individual point guard’s assist numbers have little correlation with the quality of the team they play on.
by zl on Jan 6, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
They should go down on great teams
Great teams do not need the PG to get them open for a shot. They create on their own. If you have a couple players like that on the team, the PG assist total will be lower
In contrast, bad teams NEED the PG to get them open- hence higher assists
all relatively speaking
by les boulez bomber on Jan 6, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
So what are you trying to say in terms of john wall?
Regardless, the assist totals may change, but they change very little. Overall, team quality just doesn’t have an effect
by zl on Jan 6, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not, rondo is a leader now....he may not have the same amount of assists
but he will help with leadership
It's not just about assist numbers though
It’s also about better scoring, fewer turnovers, better rebounding, more energy to play defense, etc.
You can’t pin something like that down to one stat, much less one as problematic as assists.
by Mike Prada on Jan 5, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True
I’m just pointing out that the notion that Rajon Rondo is only good because he’s on a good team is absolutely ridiculous. If that made sense, Derek Fisher would be racking up asssists and playing out of his mind.
by zl on Jan 6, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's a development thing with Rondo though
He’s good, no question. If you place him on another team right now, yes, he’d still be good. But does he become Rondo if he doesn’t have KG/Allen/Pierce in his formative basketball years? It’s a fair question I think.
You seriously believe that?
I mean, c’mon man…
Wall wouldn’t be better on a good team? And Rondo wouldn’t be worse passing to Allen and Garnett rather than a cold Young, and Andray Blatche.
For such a stat head like yourself, just the improvement of shooting percentage of the Celt’s starters compared to their Wizard’s counterparts should tell you Wall’s assists would increase.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Jan 5, 2012 11:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
nah, rondo is far, far better than Wall (right now)
it’s not even close.
by DCrez on Jan 5, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The big difference is leading the offense and especially Rondo's all out effort
He is focused on 1 thing and 1 thing only: a team win.
If you look at him, he didn’t talk with or even looked at Wall all game long. Not when he embarrassed him, not when he got beat by him. He just want’s to win. He doesn’t care about how manny points he scores, (or how many points Wall scores for that matter), how many assists or boards he gets. It’s whatever his team needs at that moment. No over thinking, just playing, playing as hard as he can, being completely aware in the current moment. The game comes to him and Wall is far, far away from that.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
don't disagree
I’m going a little overboard. How about Rondo at the same point in his career as Wall?
in rondo's 2nd year....i would say he was a better defender than Wall and saw the floor better
but he has a far superior coach and had spent a full year with a real Big3 so he really had an unfair advantage. It’s starting to look like only a force of nature like Shaq, Dwight, Lebron could come in here and succeed. So yeah, if Ernie had drafted Rondo instead of Pech…..Rondo wouldnt be Rondo
Seeing the floor
hard to quantify but I do think if Wall appears to be lacking its because of who he has to pass to. I would find it easier, as a former PG, to be actively looking for Allen, Pierce, and Garnett. In fact, that’s all I’d do. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to give it to Blatche on the wing, ever.
Exactly!
You can’t get assists if the player you pass the ball to can’t make a basket!!!!!! It’s hard to stomach the lack of ability of an NBA player/players to make a basket especially a lay up – come on Wizards! I agree that this team need some kind of shake up. I’m not a coach, a GM, or an owner, I am just one pissed season ticket holder. Please, please, please do something now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Long-Time Wizard Fan
I have never seen Wall attempt a down-court pass
I love the guy, but I have seen him complete very few “wow” passes since joining the team. The speed is electric, but I don’t see the “pass first” point guard because he’s not a passing savant.
by Unselds on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True. He isn't a wow passer, but his natural disposition is to pass first
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Right
But at All-Star weekend he made that bounce pass to Griffin and had Stoudemire on his knees that bounce pass also got over a 1,000,000 views on youtube. Again when you don’t have a Derrick Williams to reverse Slam a alley-oop it’s not Wall’s fault. He was talking about doing a bounce pass from the stands behind the back board at the slam dunk contest he made that suggestion to McGee but he would ultimately turn it down because we all know McGee I mean P needs his shine.
My 10 man rotation
Wall, Mason, Singleton, Lewis, McGee – small ball shooters
Mack, Young, Vesely, Booker, Seraphin – backups, Young & Booker first off the bench and play the most
Wall lacks PG instincts
I hate to say it, but Wall doesn’t have great PG instincts. I’ve watched a little of Kyrie Irving, Ricky Rubio and Chris Paul and they all look better than John. Rubio and Paul seems to have a knack of making their teammates better when they are on the floor. Irving seems to know how to run a team. John does show me anything in those two departments. People are killing Crawford when he runs the point, however, he came in a quickly through JaVale two lobs for dunks in one the game. He got JaVale two easy baskets and John doesn’t do that at all. We may have missed on our No. 1 No. 1 pick.
The problems with this franchise are many and run deep
A change here and there and some nips and tucks are not going to transform this franchise into a consistent winner. Every aspect of this entire organization needs to be thoroughly reviewed, questioned and rejected or scrubbed as needed. Until Ted realizes this and acts upon it, it will be a comedy of errors…one right after the next.
Or fuck it, quite pretending, and budget near the cap and bring back veteran scorers that dont play defense so we can fluctuate between 30-40 wins each year like we have been forever. Because the people running things today are built to do just that. That is where their skills lie. They are not the men wired to take a stripped down roster and transform it into a perennial contender.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 5, 2012 2:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
keep giving wall a pass all u want,
I rooted all year he was playing at Kentucky for wiz to somehow get him but he can’t shoot! I got spoiled by Gilbert! John wall ain’t no Damn agent 0! Damn Gerald Wallace!
by Objdadon on Jan 5, 2012 2:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
arenas was actually a pretty good point guard with the wiz
he could really pass the ball. he couldn’t jump anymore, but he certainly could pass and see the court.
if i seen gerald wallace,
I might run up and Tanya harding his ass!
by Objdadon on Jan 5, 2012 2:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
watched trailblazers game the other night
he still plays exactly the same. it’s not dirty. it’s just reckless.
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Jan 5, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Im firing flip if I don't see this soon
Wall young singleton seraphin and McGee. I think if you change the WHOLE starting five it’s gonna cause a big locker room problem. And I know we dont want John wall to leave us but you can’t baby him. Flip has to pull him if he’s struggling
Duck Fallas!!
by believe_the_curse on Jan 5, 2012 2:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I just can't put alot of this stuff on Wall simply because the team is a downright mess of a roster
so he gets somewhat of a pass from me no one could elevate shot jacking Nick Young, out of shape lazy Blatche, do nothing lewis, and shoot em if you got em Crawford.
Wall doesn’t have one reliable scorer on the team and not one high character vet to learn something from that is a productive player.
so he’s not learned what demeaor, what practice habits and pre game prep is needed to play at a high level.
Rondo has had all those things and still has had the organization wanting to trade him the last 3 years because of his attitude and ability to fit in.
If they fire flip make some minor moves to tweak the roster I think things will pick up.
If I were the Wizards one trade I would make is trade Blatche to the Rockets for Patrick Patterson and Dragic. Gets us an unselfish tough defensive pf, and a vet back up pg who can play some 2.
Rockets get another scorer downlow to run some offense through with their 2nd unit.
Totally Agree
But you can’t really fault any of the players imo. Ernie built this team, he decided to stock it with a bunch of low iq, extremely athletic players, with little to no ability to score.
And then you expect your franchise player to carry this load for the next four years. You expect your franchise player to remain upbeat and “smile” while the rest of his team struggles to “get it”. Then if/when they do, wall’s contract is up, he’s burnt out being here, and your left with a team full of average players and no star.
Its great and all that Ernie was able to turn over the roster to what it is now, but is anyone here truly confident in the way he’s building this team? Blatche and Young should have left with the Big 3. Then you might have possibly had a chance at a true rebuild.
There’s no way you can expect a culture change when your two oldest players derived so
much of their NBA experience from Agent Zero.
I agree with this as well
Ernie needs to be fired I called for the double firing last year. Him and Flip. Ernie purged the roster then bet on Young and Blatche who learne at the feet of dysfunction and are now spreading the same ill fated lessons they learned from the prior selfish Big 3 so the ghost of that core still lives in the midst of the current roster.
Time to get players on this team with a similar identity of playing hard and unselfish.
A little perspective
What did we really expect the team’s record to be after 6 games? Probably a win against NJ. Maybe a win on the road against Milwaukee? Losses against Atlanta, Boston and Orlando on the road, and a home loss against Boston, right?
So a record of 1-5 or at best 2-4. I realize part of the concern is not the losses, but the way they’ve lost and played. But win 2 of the next 3 and things will be a better.
If they go 0-3, however, stuff will be hitting the fan. Man, are these next three games huge.
I think even cynics like me
expected Les Boulez to try pretty hard more than half of the 1st quarters in the early part of the year (before they got beat into submission by constant losing). Instead we look like the Egyptian army: “weapons down, hands up, surrender.”
fire and cut everybody
i never call for firings, but in this case i’ll make a exception. This team has already quit, after only six games. That certainly reflects on the coach. He’s gone.
But the quit reflects more on the players. It’s time to clean house. I don’t know what the rules are, but if i were in charge and the rules allowed it, a bunch of these guys would be heading for the bench and then the door.
Blatche is untradeable. Cut him. Send a message and it won’t hurt the team either. He’s shown his permanent colors this year.
Bench Young. You want your money next year? then play right. Otherwise, you’ll see how much money bench warmers make.
Crawford – say hello to the bench until you stop jacking up garbage. If you continue anyway, then don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. You’re not that good. But you could help us if you weren’t so stupid.
Mr. Wall – you want to pout and threaten the team six games into the season? Wow. I have a nice warm spot for your ass on the bench too. Shut up and practice your shot. Unfortunately for us, you’re not that good either. we’d probably be better with Mack leading the team, at least right now.
This is the only way to deal with knuckleheads. Coddling only encourages them. Reasoning, well, they can’t spell that.
by stevie on Jan 5, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh Flip won't be the first NBA coach sacked this season...
Paul Westphal just earned that dubious honor.
I would
have benched JW every time he sprints and takes on 3+ with his out of control crap. All of you say he’s a pass first pg- I don’t see it that way. He sprints first, looses control, and then tries to either pass his way out of it or even worse he throws up crap trying to get fouled. He didn’t learn crap from kirk- start Mack.
by DCPerspective on Jan 5, 2012 6:21 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I never saw Wall in college
So I wasn’t biased. From what I’ve seen with the Wiz, he’s just not that good. “All he needs to do is develop a shot” could be said of 80% of the NBA. Worst of all, he doesn’t have fun. There’s no spark in those eyes.
by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 5, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
John Wall is in over his head with the role being asked of him.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 6, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I might be missing someone
but Howard was the last guy that could come in and transform a franchise from day 1…before him Shaq
What they are asking is incredibly hard and some would say, unfair to him
by les boulez bomber on Jan 6, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm No
You have every right to have your own opinion but you hear it all the time when your shot’s are not falling the best way to get yourself going is at the freethrow line plus you get that attack mindframe, and when he see’s his teammates not making shots and running around with their mouths poked out because they are not shinning and now they are playing dead ball how can he play inspired. I mean really his background and the program he comes from I mean really maybe some of you have not seen it but I would advise you to go back and look at his intro at BIG BLUE Kentucky when he was a freshmen. Dude put up the same #’s Derrick Rose put up in his rookie season the only reason Rose won ROY was because he was already on a playoff bound team as to a rebuild. Honestly I think we were screwed from the jump when Wall first got here and you still had the knuckleheads around with two of them in their contract year and the other a year later. None of which were ever held accountable the whole time they were here and now they are the ones getting the bulk of criticism, then on top of the fact did you see the all out celebration we had when Wall first got here, and all the praises he was getting, come on you mean to tell me Blatche,Young,and McGee were not looking at that they should have blew this whole thing up from the jump, and now everybody playing time to get paid basketball.
Last game
He pulled the sprint to the baseline and toss it up 4 of the first 7 plays. didn’t get the calls and walla … down a dozen. When you shot is not falling you do that- but it can’t be the plan out of the gate.
by DCPerspective on Jan 6, 2012 7:06 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
That's not what I saw
I saw Flip telling Wall to push the tempo why, because they are supposed to be a young team. But what’s frustrating Wall is that when you got guys out of shape(Blatche) who supposed to be one of your primary scorers you can’t have a offense that runs up and down the floor if after the first two or three sprints he’s winded and get’s to hacking 19ft fade aways because he does not have the energy to work down low. Mcgee is not big enough to scare anyone and to bang down low, I mean did you see how when he tried to back down Howard he bounced off the man literally and ended up back where he started then threw up a 11ft hook shot.
Young I am not to down on because even though he was pouting he still competed, played defense, looked to pass, and did the exact samething Wall was doing attacking the basket. Him and Wall were the only ones acting like they were not scared of Howard, I use to get mad when they would call our frontline soft I clearly see why now, because they are. Wall is only interested in winning that’s all he cares about, right now Wall has to be a facilitator, shooter, director, coach, and on a nationalized scene he’s the one getting most of the blame, because he’s the only one anybody gives a damn about. Don’t forget he’s only 20yr’s old even Lebron had more help then Wall did going into his second year.
the only reason rose won roy was because
he was more exciting to watch than the vanilla (yet at the time statistically savvy) Lopez. Wall probably would have won if it wasnt that this guy named blake griffen, probably gonna be a bust btw, didnt play that year…and by play i mean dominate the league with flash
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Mcgee and Wall need to start to shoot more.
Why is wall shooting less than his rookie season, he is too unselfish. Scoring skills will be quicker to develop then passing skills. Anyway the team isn’t shooting well at all, so letting Wall and Mcgee get more shots, around 15-20 FGA each, will be better for there development even if they are missing. It goes without saying that those shots should be good shots.

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