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Links: Ted Leonsis Continues To Preach Patience

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the wise man David Aldridge this morning on TK show

made a great point about long-term rebuilding in the NBA. Basically, you can’t do it! Wall will make his mind to go ASAP, players want to win from the get-go. You have to be more pro-active than in NHL or NFL because of the players wanting (and being able to force) playing where and with who they want. I hope Ted was listening.

"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier

by little stevie colter on Jan 3, 2012 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

can we sell the Wizards to Dan Snyder and name Vinny Cerrato the new GM?

They can bring a winner here next year, guaranteed! Their strategy of making a buzz in FA works in the NBA much more than it does in the NFL.

But long term int he NBA to me is three seasons, not five or six,

by thewiz06 on Jan 3, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

ASAP being 6 yrs.

The Wizards can risk another year or two of rebuilding.

by djnnnou on Jan 3, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

my point is just that there is no reason not to be really active right now

in at least exploring a bold move, this year. get a new coach, now – flip is not the guy for this team, so why wait? so they don’t start losing? i hope ernie is relentlessly checking who is available and what it would take. it may be happening quietly behind the scenes, but teds patience mantra and the fact that flip is still here indicate otherwise

"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier

by little stevie colter on Jan 3, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The Wizards won't do better than Flip

until some serious changes are made. No one wants to coach a roster full of young players and knuckleheads. It’s a near impossible situation to succeed in.

by djnnnou on Jan 3, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i know flip is a good coach - this is not a slight against him

but i don’t think they can progress much without a fresh voice

"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier

by little stevie colter on Jan 3, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't share Ted Leonsis optimism

An idea of a rebuild would be to at least show some improvement. Yes we have a lot of young players, but most of these players were here last year, especially the core players (i.e. starters and key bench players). What I have seen is an overall regression in play from many of the players, except for McGee. I honestly believe that this year should be it. If you aren’t making some significant improvement as a team, then there is a major change that needs to take place. It doesn’t matter if it’s the players, coaching staff, the General Manager, the philosophy for building this team (through the draft), or any combination of those things, but bottom line if this team does not play better you cannot stand pat for another season. At some point as a franchise you have get away from just being reserved to the idea of rebuilding and instead think about the idea of player simply not being good enough. This is the NBA not college basketball, we should not have to wait 2 or 3 years for these players to know how to rotate on defense, or to stop taking stupid shots early in the shot clock while you have a lead in the 4th. If these players aren’t making progress, they never will! At some point you have to realize that and to me it’s starting to get to the point that there are just some players who need to go, some coaches that need to go and perhaps a change of philosophy if this ultimately doesn’t pan out.

by ThePGPhenomenon on Jan 3, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

1)agree with you 100% and 2)never forget Ted (as Wiz owner) is first and foremost a season ticket salesman.

He’s going to preach “patience and process” and keep payroll low for as long as he can.

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

If this is your standard:

“we should not have to wait 2 or 3 years for these players to know how to rotate on defense, or to stop taking stupid shots early in the shot clock while you have a lead in the 4th”

then you’re automatically eliminating all 1st-and 2nd-yeat players from the team? As well as McGee and Young? Is there anyone on the team you’d keep?

by MeToo on Jan 3, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Mcgee has made clear progress every season, Nick made a leap at end of Flip's 1st year

what’s distressing to me is said gains are on an individual level, at no point since Flip’s arrival have we seen a unit that looks cohesive. Obviously there are mitigating factors, but we should see it start to emerge this year or really Saunders is just spinning his wheels

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a difference between individual progress and team progress

And for the record, JaVale did make SOME progress last year. And Nick Young without a doubt.

What I am talking about is a team that is making a lot of the same mistakes and not learning from it. At some point you either have to wonder is it the coaching staff or is it the players? Someone should be held accountable. I’m okay with losing, but I’m not okay with players not making progress. That’s what a rebuild need, progress. Can you honestly say in the first few games this year, that there is a marked improvement over last year? We are the worst offensive team in the league now. Our defense is slightly better but we haven’t gotten into the beef of the schedule quite yet to know if it will hold up. All I’m saying is you can’t have two years of awful basketball and say that team is rebuild. Rebuilding to what? Every team that has been successful in rebuilding, showed some incremental change. I just think to say we are “going as expected” is ridiculous to me. Losing a 21 point lead at home during your home opener was expected? I don’t even recall this team doing anything like that last year, so what is improving?

by ThePGPhenomenon on Jan 3, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I saw progress last night over the previous game. And some progress from the game...

before that. If you don’t see it, you may not be looking carefully enough. Wall’s starting to slow down some. He’s picking it up on defense. JaVale’s looking much improved. Singleton looks like a keeper.

Very young PGs take time to develop. So do centers. So do 95% of all young players.

Yeah, there’s progress.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I saw some progress, but it didn't go far

I also saw horrible rotations on defense, terrible shot selection, and bad passing. These guys have to show what they showed last night consistently and to correct the mistakes I just mentioned. If we assume they are making progress based off of last night, we could have come to the same conclusion after the first quarter of the Nets game. I’m in a wait and see mode, but I must admit, I have tempered my expectations. I need to see more of what they showed last night before I become a believer of this team progressing.

by ThePGPhenomenon on Jan 3, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

we see progress last night

Cs fans see an aging, slow, team of theirs that was out of sorts on a back-to-back but then of course crushed the Wizards the moment it mattered. Which view is more correct?

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

singleton and booker know how to rotate, it's basic fundamentals

and it’s not mcgee totally, it’s the person that is supposed to be rotating. They only call out McGee. why don’t they ever call out JWall for not moving his feet and every guard penetrates around him?

by dmv4life on Jan 3, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Exactly

Javale makes bad decisions, gets caught in bad decisions. Those deficincies are amplified x10 when Andray Blatche is the guy playing your help defense.

I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.

by returnofswagger on Jan 3, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The frustration is mounting

Because we are not seeing the progression in Wall or Crawford. Blatche is still the same Blatche. And still not enough PT for guys like Booker and Seraphin to develop. The Wizards are young and they are rebuilding, but at this point we (the fan base) would like to see the players getting better, especially throughout Flips’s tenure and in his “system”. I think it’s time to admit a mistake and make a coaching change. Then lets see if there’s growth! If not, make adjustments in personnel. The offense looks bad and the rotations are awful. There’s no reason why Booker is only averaging 11 mpg, Singleton is getting 19, and Lewis playing nearly 32.

by SpecialSauce on Jan 3, 2012 1:01 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

no matter how bad players are they should show progress under a good coach

even if ultimately they’ll never amount to much of team because the talent isnt there, they should still be clearly progressing within the framework of their own ceilings. If you arent seeing that, the Coach is not doing his job or the GM has picked utterly useless players

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

players rarely change

Blatche is who he is. So is Crawford. Players can get better at who they are (like NY over the last few years), but don’t expect them to turn into different players.

by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 3, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

Flip completely overhauled Nick’s game.

Lots of players adjust their games as they age and suffer from injuries. Most obvious example: old MJ was completely different from young MJ.

Most players don’t change who they are unless they are forced to do so, but they definitely can change when pushed enough.

by yop32 on Jan 3, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If you watched the old MJ play for the Wizards

he didn’t know how to be anything but MJ. He wasn’t going to be No. 2, even though he wasn’t the best player on the team.

My point was, NY didn’t turn into a rebounder or passer, he turned into a better jump shooter. Blatche will never turn into a hustler or tough inside scorer, but he might improve his shot selection.

by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 3, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I agree with Ted absolutely.

He correctly pointed out that this is game 87 of the rebuild. Our franchise player has one year under his belt. We might have a franchise center. We’ll likely have a very high pick in a great 2012 draft. We have cap flexibility, allowing us to get that stud FA when we know what we’ve got in the core. We have some potentially good role players, maybe core players.

I have to say, I don’t get all the gloom and doom. This rebuild is just over a year old. I understand there’s been a history of losing here, which I’ve experienced fully. But that history has nothing to do with current history. I feel they’re doing it right — finally.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 1:13 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

that is a great attitude and I applaud you on it

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

no doom and gloom -

i was fully prepared for this season to go as it has. just anxious to see some action – either in the form of player development or personnel changes

"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier

by little stevie colter on Jan 3, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

you expected winless pre-season and an 0-5 start, multiple blowouts, and losing to NJ Nets without Lopez and to the aged celtics playing their 4th game in 6 days?

I feel objectively speaking, we started off slow and regressed so far. And the team is poor in the four fundamental areas of basketball: shooting, rebounding, offense and defense. You can not fast break yourself very far. For one, it starts with good defense and rebounding the ball.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i forgot passing…we are bad at the five most important fundamental areas of the game

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i think most of us did…but for how long? when do you know you are wrong and something bigger is happening?

when should they be accountable in your opinion?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

how many games yellafella?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I've said this before; I think in answer to a similar question from you.

At the halfway point of this season, we can start to draw some initial conclusions.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

i did not remember it if you did which is why i asked again

but thats not far from now—-another two months and 30 games or so

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i think most of us did…but for how long? when do you know you are wrong and something bigger is happening?

when should they be accountable in your opinion?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I expected the team to suck BUT...

I did not expect to see John Wall playing out of control so often, or Jordan Crawford turn into a complete brick machine. I did not expect Flip to forget to include Roger Mason on a game roster.

I expected Nick Young to get some help guarding Ray Allen. I expected less Shard and less Dray, more Singleton, more Seraphin and more Booker. I expected by now to see at least a hint of what Vasely can or cannot do.

I expected a team that would run hard and show some smart ball movement on offense, and body up on defense 48 minutes a game.

I am certain that there is a problem with both the construction and, more so the coaching of this team. As others have pointed out, this ain’t hockey and it ain’t the NFL.

My Rx: Can the coach, find someone the who can motivate his players and advance their development as members of a team.

by khrabb on Jan 3, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

which means we can't credit Flip with Javale's progress either

then again, maybe coaches and players were in more contact than we think?

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

do you feel flip has done a good job over the past two years and the one offseason to be the right man for the job?

or do you feel maybe his GM is not getting him the players that would best help him succeed better?

what would you change, if anything?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I think:
1. Flip’s performance has been good, not great. I’m not sure who is out there that would be an upgrade right now.
2. I do think that a coaching change will be needed at some point, but bad organizations make multiple changes while good organizations have continuity. So if the Wizards are going to have to make a coaching change, do it once, do it at the right time, and do it for a very good new coach. Flip is more than good enough for the time being.

by disgrunted on Jan 3, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree with this, and i am really ready for a change. But the starting five is not new

okay, let’s see what happens in the next 5 games, and that will be my answer. I know we have to be almost perfect to win, so i just want good effort and maturity.

by dmv4life on Jan 3, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

No one likes to see a man lose his job...

but it is time for Flip to move on… Note David Thorpe’s comments on the Wiz in his chat on espn today… No strategy, Flip’s days numbered…

by khrabb on Jan 3, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh, no

I’ll express concern if they’re consistently not competitive and feel better about this whole thing if they consistently are.

by Mike Prada on Jan 3, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

by what date? when do you think it has been long enough and they are off course?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

then i think you are doing a diservice to us all because you have a lot of basketball knowledge and it would help to hear you pull it together and comment when things are looking right or not

i feel with the NBA set up the way it is today, starting from scratch with the #1 pick in the first year with the players they had and especially having the ability to amnesty, they should be pulling down 35 wins in yr 3 and improving five wins a year the next few years

so i am not crying SOS now, but i am concerned that i dont see visibility for 35 wins next season with this franchise even with a high lottery pick. but the draft is a long way off and an important piece

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

and i am not meaning a diservice as a knock on you..more that you could really differentiate yourself positively if you went that route

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

it was a bad way to word it on my part

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But for the critiques to be accurate...

They must be delivered in the context of the current situation. Right now, the context is the beginning of Year 2 of the rebuild. 87 games of the rebuild. An extremely young roster, etc.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

but i think we both would agree that if in ten years this franchise never won more than thirty games, there is a problem.

so somewhere between now and then even you have a line in the sand

i know it is a tricky situation with your position. if you had one, i would have been curious when that is. but i think it is folly to say be patient or defend something without saying how long. it is not being accountable to your viewpoint and hence, sterilizes whatever argument one makes

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

3rd year Wall....4th Year Mcgee....Top 3 Pick and Stud FA

can get to 35….

The question is do we get a Top 3 and a Stud FA

by DavidDunn on Jan 3, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

there are ways to get there. i dont foresee us getting a stud FA hence my reservation

the people we have on the roster right now have a long way to go to approach playing fundamentally sound basketball.

i dont want to go down the path claiming what they will not do…but i am saying i dont see the visibilitiy that they will win 35 games next season right now without a superstud addition- and he would likely need to play in the front court

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll agree that our current roster isn't really very good.

Wall will almost certainly be a starter on most teams in a few years; McGee, on some; Blatche, possibly somewhere.

The rest (except for Vesely about whom I’ll reserve judgment since he hasn’t played in a regular season game) will be sitting on the bench, in the D League, or out of basketball. I just hope the organization takes a good look at this crew of not-quite-first-stringers so it can make an intelligent decision about the fate of each.

I don’t really understand your magic “35 wins next season or the whole outfit’s a bust” measure as a benchmark for improvement. Nor do I agree that the composition of the bench isn’t important.

Yes. I recognize that I’m probably more patient than most of us here.

by MeToo on Jan 3, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont understand the composition of the bench comment. i made no mention of benches.

but i was talking about the team as a whole. but i did talk about the team as a whole. and we did not start with nothing, we had players including mcgee.

and yes, i believe three top 10 lottery picks (1,6 and probably at least 6 in our case) plus what we had to work with and the guys we have already added/could have added…should be able to win 35 games in their third season.,..that is less than half their games and not even a playoff team

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

but whether you agree with 35 or not isnt really important to me…i am trying to clear out these guys that dont care if we win even 20 games three years out…because that IS a problem

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed, but that's not what you said.

You implied that if they play hard one game, you’ll think they’re on the right track; if not, then they’re on the wrong track. Problem is, that’s what too many people do.

I don’t think you believe that, either, which is why I was surprised at your comment.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

good call man

Its so awful people are flipping their lids over a strike shortened season that was inevitably going to hurt a young team with no chemistry. Instant results are not going to happen. Enjoy the ride because it will be sweet once we have a true “Core” and role players in place

by WizKid27 on Jan 3, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally, I dont care what Ted says anymore

His job is to sell tickets and maximize profits the best way he knows how.

I do care what he does though. And he has been in the driver seat long enough to transform this organization a lot of ways. He has had time to evaluate and decide what to change or not. And through his vision and the direction he sets, trades could have happened or not, players drafted or not, and developed or not.

His words are silent, and I hear the thunder from his actions. This is big league professional sports. It is competitive. You play to win for the fans and they reward winning with fat profits for the owner. He is is their record.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Isnt the organization exactly the same though?

I’m not saying that means we’re failing…..just that Ted came in and didnt change a thing as to who makes the basketball decisions. It’s the exact same people that led to the previous mess which for some reason gets blamed on Abe.

GM, Coach, Director of Player Development, Training staff…..all identical since Ted took over right?

Again, I am not saying that means we’re doomed

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

But the plan has changed. Completely.

And Ernie, IMO, has executed the plan, so far, about as well as could be hoped. So yes, it’s entirely different.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

entirely different...aside from GM, Coach, Player Development, medical staff, and longest tenured player?

that’s more the same than different imho….and as long as Dray is a focal point of this team (not judging him here) it’s impossible imo to claim platitudes about “different culture now” and all that.

Again, not saying it means we’re doomed, but some of these seem like more sloganeering than actual changes

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

When Abe owned the team,

the strategy seemed to be to improve by trading for mature “fill-in-the-gaps” guys.

With Ted, the strategy is to build through the draft.

Although I’m not necessarily happy that the two strategies haven’t yielded vastly different results, I certainly see them as different strategies.

Aninteresting ESPN piece that’s related: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/35012/stan-van-gundy-knows.

by MeToo on Jan 3, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

build through the draft is a tactic to execute some strategy. it is not a strategy

i think their strategy is to acquire the most athletic men we can find, regardless of current basketball skill and knowledge, and we will teach them the game and develop them into winners that can compete deep in the playoffs. Our tactics includes acquiring those players through the draft.

that is an example of a strategy and a tactic to execute that strategy. but it is my strategy for them based on their actions. i dont even know if it is their strategy because they have not communicated one- only the vision

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

and if it is their strategy…it has to come with some timeline to know measure their effectiveness in executing their strategy

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

which they also have not communicated

fans will hold the team accountable. perennial losers have smaller fan bases than perennial winners…in all sports. if they want to give us an accountability date then they do not have to worry about us picking one that is closer than they want

but “patience” is both toothless and meaningless

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm falling into a semantic quagmire.

vision
strategy
tactic

We may agree on “tactic” . . .

by MeToo on Jan 3, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i had to have it explained to me over and over to get it. but it is not really important

the point is that the team can not promote “patience” indefinitely and there will be accountability. if you want more time, you should spell out what you are doing a little better. and it is not giving away trade secrets

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Certainly Ted has stated the strategy and tactics.

The strategy is to build a team that can be consistently competitive and win championships. The tactics are building through the draft, being patient, filling in with FAs when the team is only a missing piece away.

The tactics are not quick-fix, Dan Snyder-type moves. Ted’s been quite clear about all this.

by YellaFella on Jan 3, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

thats a vision not a strategy but i dont believe getting caught up in the semantics will further our points

i am looking for the franchise to have a plan and held to some accountability to the plan. and to do that, there has to be some timelines in mind.

do you feel they have done that? if so, what is that timeline? i read teds book…he feels all things have to be measured or it is worthless. and anything measured needs a timeline associated with it.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

If that's Ted's strategy, then...

….1) it is insufficient and 2) they haven’t executed it.

To build a championship team through the draft, you need multiple top 5 picks. Settling for 6, 18, and 34 in a weak class doesn’t get you any closer.

Also, even if you get good talent, you need to have players that fit together and are developed by the coaching staff and surrounding veterans. This is not happening in Wizland.

Ted’s very smart and has good experience. He ought to be able to figure this stuff out rather than spending time getting his nails manicured incessantly.

by Izman on Jan 3, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Except for the unnecessary offensive last paragraph, I completely agree with you

I’ll add that the 16th and 23rd picks aren’t good enough either. Essentially we are trying to rebuild through the draft with 1 top 5 pick.

The only way that is going to happen is if you find Tony Parker late in the first round and Ginobli in the second round.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 5:26 AM EST up reply actions  

It's hard also when in 9 out of 10 lotteries, your draft position falls.

The Wiz consistently end up lower than they should, keeping them away from blue-chippers. Other than Wall, our lotto luck is miserable. Makes it difficult.

I will say, though, that I don’t see Ernie having reached terribly for players.

by YellaFella on Jan 4, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

He means Seraphin and Vesly, YellaFella. The players you mentioned are American!

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Um, I know that.

My point was that he doesn’t “blindly draft euros”, he mostly drafts Americans.

If his point was that he doesn’t scout euros before drafting them, that’s a different point (and incorrect, as well). I took it as Ernie prefers to draft euros, which simply isn’t true.

by YellaFella on Jan 4, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

no, i meant he doesnt do sufficient due dillegence on euros

and seraphin is a great example. So is Pech, and I suspect Jan (but hope not)

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

The Article fails to mention

Dwight Howard was drafted by the Magic. Just saying.

by Unselds on Jan 3, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

some areas are different as you pointed out yellafella and some arent as dcrez noted. they all have teds stamp on it

I have not heard him articulate a strategy. I have heard him lay out a vision of a team playin hard, running the floor and be exciting to watch and competitive.

He hired Ernie to execute that vision through a strategy. EG has not articulated his strategy but it seems to be drafting uber athletes with below average fundamentals that he expects to be difference makers when they learn how to play basketball.

So far, they have not learned how to play basketball very well and they are winless this season and fared poorly last year. Ted preaches patience, but what does that mean? When will this strategy be held accountable and when will this vision be held accountable. So far I have only been asked to pay while I wait. More accountability on their end will make it more palatable, but blind faith has a short shelf life with people who care.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

The NBA is all about talent unless you intend to be in the lottery system ever year for 5-6 years this thing ain't fixing itself with the hope that the true franchise player and a number 2 sidekick fall into your lap.

what do we have we have a Good pg who I think will eventually become a great player. We have a solid center who I think will become a good player. Hardest 2 positions to fill we’re set in. We have nothing else. Considering the pg is not yet great and the center is not yet good thus the struggles but they are developing.

Mix in the wrong formula for attempting to win formulated by the coach and gm and we aren’t even on the path to building a winner.

we’ve gotta purge this roster some more Ernie believes in Young and Blatche 2 players who are the source of the problems and most likely won’t be here if we ever start winning games.

So Ted is on the clock pray we get a player in next years draft that can jump this thing forward a bunch before Wall gets good and starts thinking I’m blowing outta this suckfest.

by jazzy1 on Jan 3, 2012 2:47 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

well said…

and I think

Mix in the wrong formula for attempting to win formulated by the coach and gm and we aren’t even on the path to building a winner.

and ted’s patience is what is worrying so many.

patience works when you are heading in the right direction at an acceptable pace…and it means squat when you are not

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

nice link

great illustration of how well/efficiently he’s been playing on offense. Still has a lot of improvements to make on defense (some of which we’ve been seeing already, like not being quite as trigger happy with jumping around), but should be made more of a focus on offense imo.

by Wizards Khalifa on Jan 3, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

He's gone up against some pretty marginal centers, though.

It’s nice to have JaVale’s inside game against guys like Stiemsma, Petro, and 82-year-old Jermaine O’Neal, but I’m not convinced that JaVale’s post game is going to be a playoff caliber weapon. Didn’t look so good against Bogut. Next up: Dwight, then Tyson Chandler, so we’ll see how it goes.

I’d rather see evidence of an improving PnR with Wall.

by yop32 on Jan 3, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

disagree

He was 10-9 in 28 minutes against Bogut. thats solid. Mcgee missed alot of easy shots in the paint .

14,11,2.4 is pretty good start to a season. on 54% fg.

the top guys all make their money beating up on all the mediocre centers in the league.

by jazzy1 on Jan 3, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Against Milwaukee, JaVale shot under 50%, only went to the foul line twice (and missed both), had no blocks, and was out-rebounded by Blatche. Meanwhile, Bogut had 13 and 15 with 3 blocks.

I suppose it’s nice that JaVale has a post game to beat up on the mediocre and bad centers, but I’d rather see progress developing an offensive weapon that can work against anyone. Like, say, an unstoppable Wall-JaVale 1-5 pick and roll.

by yop32 on Jan 3, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Basically, I'm not so impressed by a center with a "pretty good" post game

Titles seem to go to teams with HoF caliber, best-in-the-league level post up centers (or second best at least). Either that or centers who play more on the perimeter, setting lots of picks and getting their points through movement towards the basket from the outside. “Pretty good” post up centers don’t start for title winning teams.

Call me pessimistic, but I don’t think JaVale will ever be an all-time great post player.

by yop32 on Jan 3, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed and that's why it's nice to have him developing one.

Ultimately he is a defensive center like Chandler but with more offense. His forté should still be his defense, rebounding and the P&R with Wall.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 5:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I do see a more complete version of Chandler being a starter on a Championship team

Heck, I just saw current Chandler himself being a starter on a championship team!

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 5:32 AM EST up reply actions  

that is the opposite of what he is good at

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup.

Because that’s the opposite of what how he sees himself, so that’s the opposite of what he chooses to work on.

Oh well, in spite of himself, he’s improving anyway.

by yop32 on Jan 4, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

gotta give cred where it's due

on his own, with no wizards coaching at all, Javale has come back a clearly better player than he was last season. No other player on the roster can come close to saying that, in fact it looks like most everyone else regressed. Mcgee has shown the kind of work ethic we should be looking for in players

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure. He's definitely better.

I even think his new post game could be a major weapon someday. But it should be just an offshoot of his pick and roll game. Pick and post. I just think he should have worked on the pick and roll stuff first. The post moves part of it would ideally be the final addition to achieve a fully mature, championship caliber offensive game. But whatever. As long as we get there eventually.

by yop32 on Jan 4, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Like Ben Wallace

And all of the Spurs starting C’s. Or Perkins, or Bynum. None of them were exceptional in the post, when they won.

Of course most HOF bigs win championships, but that’s because they’re great players.

I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.

by returnofswagger on Jan 4, 2012 3:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Anyway

McGee is exactly the type of player you just described. He does get most of his points in those situations where he’s moving towards the basket and then receives the ball. The post game is just a perk that he gets to work on in the meantime.

I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.

by returnofswagger on Jan 4, 2012 3:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

One swallow doth not a summer make

He still attempts ridiculous shots when they are simply not there for him. He really does not know what he can and cannot do right now, so attempts everything. If he can perfect a few moves and get an idea of when to make them and improve on his passing, i think then there will be real improvement. I don’t think he is still quite used to be being big. I do see him getting more contested boards because he seems to feel he can get them now. To me, he still has a few seasons to go.

by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I've always been a big supporter of Javale

I knew Mcgee would always become a good player. I’m almost never wrong when evaluating a bigman.

Mcgee had a few things I knew would eventuallyu work well in the nba.

He’s one of the longest and most athletic bigs in the league . He can block shots even when he’s outta position insanely explosive and has great hand eye coordination.

He played well in his 1st year as a fulltime starter. It wasn’t too big for him he wasn’t scared he played like he belonged. When he finally got used to the minutes with his asthma and was able to regulate his emotions allowing his breathing to settle he began to play really well and be very very active.

He’s durable to this point he’s like a rubber band man he seems to be able to play through nagging things that occur doesn’t jake injuries comes back and tries to play , For as much as he leaves his feet he doesn’t get the nagging things he has good balance a good body for the game must be the genes.

and imagination for as much as people hate some of the crazy things he attempts its a necessary component to a young player becoming a very good player. When Kobe was a young player he did ridiculously crazy things took simple layups and dunks and turned them into adventures both good and bad but they taught him boundaries what works what doesn’t what he could do though to avoid defense.

so while we suffer through some of his wild shots there will come a time he will use some of the things he’s learned and honed to work prety frequently to the teams advantages.

John Thompson says and I agree you can calm a hyper guy down but you can’t put the fire in a guy.

Mcgee has that fire.

I don’t think his lapses on defense are really his fault he’s the only one defending the paint he gets NO HELP frm Blatche so he ends up trying to cover for someone else and his man escapes but its not because he is inattentive to team defense its because he is hyper attentive to it.

by jazzy1 on Jan 3, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think his lapses on defense are really his fault he’s the only one defending the paint he gets NO HELP frm Blatche so he ends up trying to cover for someone else and his man escapes but its not because he is inattentive to team defense its because he is hyper attentive to it.

+100000000

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Jan 3, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that's not true either though

In the situation described, it does make sense. But that is not the only scenario where Javale ever screws up.

I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.

by returnofswagger on Jan 4, 2012 3:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I'm trying to say that McGee doesn't have as many defensive lapses as people think

Usually when people accuse McGee of having a defensive lapse, it’s Blatche’s fault. Blatche never has McGee’s backside when a center gets in the paint, and that’s the main reason why we give up so many points in the paint.

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Jan 3, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Nonsense

Blatce is one of the most athletic pfs in the league. He isn’t uber, but he is athletic. I don’t care who believes me, I say Blatche can be a top 4 in the NBA.

by hambonejackson on Jan 4, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He can, but he won't.

He can’t get out of his own way it seems

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Lets see how he plays this season

I think he can be a top 10, at the least, power forward. He put up 28 and 9 and played decent defense. When has he ever done that?

by hambonejackson on Jan 4, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

He needs to do it every game.

It’s always been Dray’s problem. He plays hard one game out of five. He’ll never be a top 25 PF, because he won’t work at it. Simple as that.

by YellaFella on Jan 4, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He's been good

When he has had no excuses. There was the stretch that got him his current contract when he played well. Other than that, he was injured all of last year or trapped on the bench behind Antawn.

No excuses this year, so we’ll see. Until last game, it hasn’t been a very promising start, but hopefully that’s just because everyone forgot the playbook over the screwy offseason. (Oops, I guess that’s an excuse. Well, no more excuses from now on.) I’m still on the bandwagon. I’m standing near the bandwagon, slightly upwind.

by yop32 on Jan 4, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

he's overweight and slow, no explosion whatsoever

the guy is sporting 20% bodyfat and still has noodly arms….i dont know how anyone could watch him play and think he was athletic by nba PF standards.

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

The thing is, he IS atheletic and agile. His first step is very quick too. BUT...

The sad shape he is in limits that. Not bad, sad.

Unfortunately he has been very consistant at being in sad shape and thus he has been very inconsistant in giving good effort.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Javale has shown all the right glimpses from Day1

and generally improved steadily (albeit slowly) aside from a few weeks post AllStar last season when he appeared out of sorts. He is so many levels better and more deserving than Dray at this point I think even Flip is going to acknowledge it and call plays accordingly.

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

btw, I was front row at Mcgee's first preseason game vs Mavs

no shit he hit like 3 turnaround Js from 10-15’ out and had (of course) some insane blocks, boards, and just pure athletic plays. Dirk and the Mavs definitely noticed and so did every Wiz fan in the building. Great to see it appears EG may have landed a diamond in the rough, though still too early to be quite positive

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Javale's biggest improvement??

He doesn’t pick up early, ticky tack fouls that force Flip to take him out.

by HeyHeyDoctorJ on Jan 3, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I guess our expectations were too high...

But I don’t understand, how can Ted be preaching this ‘long term rebuild’, ‘wait for results’, ‘slow and steady’ stuff and at the same time have let Flip Saunders make statements saying he wants to make the playoffs during the offseason.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/wizards-coach-flip-saunders-i-want-to-compete-for-the-playoffs/2011/12/02/gIQACqE6MO_blog.html

Of course our expectations grew with statements like this. So there’s only a few options:

  1. Ted thought we had a chance at the playoffs during the offseason and told flip to go ahead and push that point. In this case he greatly overestimated the teams capacity this season.
  2. Ted just wanted to build excitement for the season even if this included outrageous claims. This is just a disheartening option.
  3. Or Flip just went ahead and made this statement without checking with the owner, in which case he greatly overestimated his teams potential this season/his ability to make them reach it. This is obviously problematic on two fronts.

I really like Ted, but none of these options is very appealing to me, and I’m kind of disappointed. What about you guys?

by Wizards Khalifa on Jan 3, 2012 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

Flip has to say that

He’s the coach. He’s coaching for his job, and he wants to win as many games as possible. I’m not saying I agree with it, but that’s the way most coaches are.

I would like to see Flip playing his young guys a little more, or BETTER YET, be fired all together. :)

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Jan 3, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think its a mistake to fire Saunders right now

He has the players playing and they are still learning the sets and the D. I can see the improvement there. I think it has to continue. A new coach will bring in a new offense and defense before this team has a chance to to learn the one they are learning right now. I don’t want to see them start all over. I want Saunders for at least 2 more seasons and then see where they are.

by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

but what if the one's they are learning now suck?

for Flip’s entire tenure so far, we have been towards the bottom of the league in offense and defense and near the tops in long Js…..so what difference would it really make to start anew? Also, unless you think Flip will win a title here….aren the schemes going to change eventually anyway?

not saying (in this post) whether Flip should be kept or not, just questioning keeping him based solely on continuity

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

totally disagree

this is his 3RD YEAR!!!! Have we seen any improvement? we forget that he was brought in to win with the big 3, not with the super kids

by back_to_the_future on Jan 3, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

oh no
I want Saunders for at least 2 more seasons and then see where they are.

jesus christ you have patience.

by Wizards Khalifa on Jan 3, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ted hasnt learned defense matters in hockey

so it might take years for him to realize it in basketball…and then he needs to tell EG who will take years to execute that vision

so you will probably get your wish

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i would be surprised if he fired flip in the near future unless flip loses the team

if he fires him for performance it means he had expectations

and if he had expectations he shouldnt be telling us to be patient

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

My expectations didn't go up...

I actually thought we would be on of the worst 4 teams in the league…unfortunately, we are doing a good job following through.

by DavidDunn on Jan 3, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree with Ted's statement

But from his comments, I get the feeling that he’ll stick with Flip for another year. :(

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Jan 3, 2012 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Here's the thing

Next year is the last year of Flip’s contract, which almost always means that Flip would have to get at least a one year extension before next year starts to avoid being a lame duck. Don’t forget, Ernie gave Eddie Jordan got a one-year extension right before the season in which he got fired. If they fire him during the middle of this season, odds are it will probably cost just as much to do it now as it will if they do it in the middle of next season.

Bullets Forever: Waiting for the Fat Lady to sing since 2006. | @jakewhitacre

by Jake Whitacre on Jan 3, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Exactly

Plus, if money is a factor at all, that would be the prime time to make a change.

Bullets Forever: Waiting for the Fat Lady to sing since 2006. | @jakewhitacre

by Jake Whitacre on Jan 3, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Is there even a reason to fire Saunders?

If there is, its not showing up on the court. This is a season to teach them how to win games and its still early in the season. They are certainly a much better road team. I see them as getting there.

by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

the guy who holds franchise record for longest losing streak and most consecutive road losses

and is currently head of the only winless team in the nba….is going to teach them how to win games?

by DCrez on Jan 3, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course he can teach them how to win games

He’s been a pretty successful coach in his career. The success is because the teams he coached won games. The Pistons set an all time wins in a season under Saunders. Compare his Timberwolves record to the historical record of the Timberwolves. He set some sort of school record for wins by that college he coached. He won in the CBA. At what level of coaching hasn’t he won in? High school? I don’t know. So yes. he can teach a team to win.

by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

DCREZ agreed

Flip wasn’t bought here to coach a young team we changed courses and he’s not adapted well to the change at all. This team is really not playing for him at all. They are disorganized and not cohesive.

Flip ca;t pull this eeaam out of nthe funk he helped put them in. My thing is Fire Flip and Ernie both doesn’t matter when its done its no more disasterous either way.

I think in season you get Cassell a shot the rest of the year and see if he can do something if not replace him at seasons end and move forward while getting a look at a young coach.

But Flip must go I get a sense his message is grating on guys.

by jazzy1 on Jan 3, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Flip's not as good a coach as a glance at his W-L record might seem to indicate imo

I cant think of a single win, not one, since he’s been here where i thought “ok, flip outcoached his counterpart tonight.”

Conversely I remember him putting DeShawn on Dunleavy at the basket with 1sec on the clock while Javale sat the bench and the Pacers beat us in excruciating and unnecessary fashion. There have been many such examples, you dont win 3 games on the road all season without them. He was 0-7 in 1st Round playoff series before finally winning one.

Not to say he is awful at everything or whatever, but he isnt in the same league as a Larry Brown for instance when it comes to winning tight games through good rotations and exploiting matchups

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I am interested to see what JVM does when his contract is up and if Flip is still coach. His boy is leaving probably.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I sound radical

but I think Saunders teaches his players irregardless of wins or losses. I think he likes and knows how to teach players. For him, there may be a time to teach and a time to teach them how to win. He can’t win if a player/players are not ready. Maybe he does things to get his players ready to win. There are times I think he is more about getting players ready to succeed as NBA players than he really is about winning a game for the purpose of winning.

by hambonejackson on Jan 4, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

that is what rebuilding is all about

teaching guys how to play the game right.

But when guys know how to play the game right, they should be winning more too

by thewiz06 on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I believe the players do not execute what they are taught all the time too. It is not all on him. There are many problems on this team.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No

I think the way they played against Boston after Flip was ejected showed that he hasn’t lost the locker room. Just thought it was worth pointing out that Flip is essentially in a contract year.

Bullets Forever: Waiting for the Fat Lady to sing since 2006. | @jakewhitacre

by Jake Whitacre on Jan 4, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh thats right

Saunders lost the locker room. Nobody on that team does anything Saunders want. They do however give him directions to the urinal. They are doing exactly what Saunders wants, just not as well as Saunders would like. Urinal that way.

by hambonejackson on Jan 4, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Rondo and playing with veterans . . .

as mentioned in the CSN New England article — odds are it will help most young players. It really helps, however, if three of those veterans are Hall of Fame caliber type players.

by Vegas010 on Jan 3, 2012 4:57 PM EST reply actions  

flip won't get fired

Ted already fired one coach this year, and nothing changed. There’s no reason to fire the coach because it’s not like they’re going to win with a new coach. Plus it would send the message that the players are in charge.

by ReturnofBillyJOe on Jan 3, 2012 6:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Caps have turned it around as of late.

four straight wins (8 pts), and they’ve been improved in the penalty kill, while augmenting their offense too.

by thewiz06 on Jan 3, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

hard not to like dale hunter. hopefully they take on their coaches personality

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The first few games, I was actually wondering whether it's worth the money for league pass this season

So atrocious was this team’s play. But the last few games have given us hope. JaVale is doing things we’ve never seen him do before – like not jumping on head fakes, and making smart moves near the basket. He looks terrific. John Wall is one of the most exciting players in the league right now, and I don’t care what the naysayers think about him. Booker shows bursts of talent. Singleton is really intriguing, and obviously a good defender. Vesely looked really good in the preseason. How can I not watch this team? It’s not possible. In short: I share Ted’s hope.

by satchmore on Jan 3, 2012 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

I share Ted’s hope too! That has never been the question for me. The question is who resorts to Plan B first should Plan A falter.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree there are some concerns

but that’s the case with every young team.. I too have been very critical of Blatche, Wall and company but we have to realize that having virtually no off season was going to make our young guys look to have regressed. I trust that the guys worked hard this summer but they weren’t able to get the coaching and instruction needed… for example Wall put up A LOT of jump shots this summer but it seems very clear that his mechanics are off and he developed bad habits. They need time, more than any other team, to be able to get a fair assessment..

by koop1122 on Jan 3, 2012 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

Really, $5mm per season and he can’t hire the same shooting coach for six months who happens to be unemployed too?

Or maybe he could scrape the money up from the sponsorship checks he receives in anticipation of him DEVELOPING into an all-star?

He clearly worked on his game in the offseason: he is noticeably bigger and a better shooter than he started last season.

The first games I watched he regressed because he was trying to do too much, score too much. He became too much of a scoring first point guard. Of course, we he did not score it made him look worse. And he did not run the offense. I believe that is the product of a mental shift more than the inability to work with a shooting coach and iron out his mechanics.

Maybe he believed all the hype he received playing summer ball where defense means not letting someone else steal your girl in the stands? Regardless, he needs to run the offense, not try to play iso PG. I know we are lacking shooters. That is EG’s fault- squarely. He still needs to do his job and make that pass even if they miss. The offense breaks down if that doesn’t happen- as we saw. And his defense still stinks.

My point simply is that the off season is an excuse not the cause. Every player in the league lacked an off-season…including other first and second year players. He chose to play pick up ball as much as he did. Where was league MVP Derrick Rose this summer? I am optimistic he will start distributing the ball better though- and soon.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Bingo
Where was league MVP Derrick Rose this summer?

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 4, 2012 5:47 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Rose was so good last night, it's almost not human how he can get to the rim.

and the more I see him, the more I want Wall to be a score first PG

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Wall will get there, but he needs to develop a shot then beef up to make that shot with contact. That will take many years to develop, not just a season or two. In the meantime, I prefer he be a distributor that occasionally works on that facet of his game rather than the opposite.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i'm not sure he has the court vision of a rondo, or a paul, or a rubio (apparently)

but i do think he has the potential to be the kind of scorer Rose and Westbrook are, which of course opens up the passing game in a big way….new thinking for me, last season i felt the same way as you

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he showed in his rookie year he has excellent court vision.

And it will get better. He needs to be more judicious about his passes, but I think he’ll be a perfect mix of scorer and distributor. And, unlike Rose early on, you can tell that Wall likes to pass.

by YellaFella on Jan 4, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

but on a team with few guys who are efficient shooters

and with a backcourt mate who doesn’t know how to pass the ball in order to create a play though I have seen him try to be better there, Wall still has to be a better scorer and fast. In nearly all cases, the point guard still has gotta be a threat from outside and that can spread the floor for us. We only have one historically great shooter in Rashard, and a hot when he’s hot guys in Nick, and it can only open up if Wall can extend his range, and if Dray and JaVale (yes even those guys) can extend too. The threat of being able to make a three is enough to stretch the D

by thewiz06 on Jan 4, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

And this is where I disagree with you. We know that we are missing shooters. That is on EG. We just drafted #6 and picked a guy who shoots sub 47% from the line.

BUT it does not mean Wall should OVERcompensate for the lack of shooters. He needs to learn to run the offense the way it is intended. We will get shooters. It will take a lot less time for EG to draft, trade, or sign shooters than for JW to learn how to make shots with contact. And then we have to wait for him to learn what he is suppose to be learning now.

And before you go there…of course, Wall should shoot and score- a lot. But his primary role is to distribute the ball within the context of the offense. And learn how to play in the NBA. He is already the fastest guy or so in the NBA. He is not developing anything when he uses his speed to run by his defender, enter the paint and jump into people drawing fouls and making one shot in ten.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

he doesnt make the kinds of bounce passes that Rondo, Rubio, CP3

are making with regularity. Even JCraw had a few last season, you know, one handed bounce pass through the paint for a score. I’m not sure that’s where his talent lies.

On the other hand, it’s clear that if he can shoot he’ll be able to score in bunches and basically be unguardable. #1 thing necessary for John Wall to succeed is a J

by DCrez on Jan 4, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

John Wall can make a bounce pass. He even made a bounce pass for an alley oop dunk all-star weekend. I feel he chooses not to make that pass. Do you really believe he can not physically make a bounce pass? If so, why do you think he doesn’t more regularly?

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

He does not have elite court vision. Nor does he have the lateral quickness of a Derrick Rose, which allows Rose to find the little bit of space to get his shot off.

Wall is a bad shooter to start. And he can not finish at the rim. It will take years (three?) before he can consistently shoot with contact. I don’t want to sit here for years watching this guy sprint into a congested lane, drawing contact, throwing up a shot which rarely goes in and only sometimes draws a foul. It is ugly basketball, and I am not interested in watching it.

I really

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, you don't know any of that.

Rose was a “bad shooter” when he came into the league, too. And I’m flabbergasted that you don’t think Wall can actually learn anything and improve. Seems you know more about him than anyone else.

by YellaFella on Jan 4, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

John Wall shot 32% his rookie year.

Derrick Rose shot 48% his rookie year.

The rest of your comment is your opinion concluded from your incorrect facts that you were to lazy to research.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

That isn’t true wall was a 41% shooter his rookie year and rose was a 47% shooter

by spanishfalcon on Jan 4, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

It still supports my point. He went from 41% last year to 32% this year. I misread it. But my point still stands- Derrick Rose was a much better shooter than John Wall when he entered the league.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That isn’t true wall was a 41% shooter his rookie year and rose was a 47% shooter

by spanishfalcon on Jan 4, 2012 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

I misread it. He is shooting 32% this year. 41% last year.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

and is still a lot lower than Derrick Rose at 48%

by les boulez bomber on Jan 4, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

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