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The Fatal Flaw in OKC model Detractor’s Argument


Argument Against OKC Model

P1: OKC is exceptional because of a special talent -- Kevin Durant.

P2: This was mostly a by-product of luck, not anything to do with repeatable skill.

P3/C1: Because it was luck and not skill, it is foolish to attempt to replicate the model.

C2: Therefore, we should not follow the OKC model.

I could bicker with the assessment re: OKC and being totally dependent upon Durant. They have an all-star in Westbrook, a very good player in Harden and Ibaka, and solid role players. They obviously are not contenders without Durant, but they would still be a playoff team.

But conditionally accepting that premise I take umbrage with P2 and the intermediate conclusion. Let me start my argument by asking a question: If not the OKC model, then what?

Buy free agents? Who would want to come to Washington? While it has some franchise history it cannot compete with the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, and other iconic franchises. Now, more then ever, star players are concerned about location – be it for winning purposes or lifestyle choices. No player will choose the Wizards based on winning. While DC has it charms, it cannot compare to New York or Chicago in “big citieness,” nor can it compare to warm-weather destinations such as Miami, LA, Dallas, etc.

So, you will not attract super stars. That means you must overpay occasional all-stars to get them to come to the Wizards. But that only gets you a re-incarnation of the big three; a team good enough to win between 40-50 games and reach the 2nd round of the playoffs. Because of drafting location/cap space restraint, that team will face an extremely difficult time in ever getting better. That is hardly a path worth considering.

Conceding, for the moment, that OKC was lucky, the argument seems to suggest following a different route. But I ask what different route? You cannot buy free agents. Prada has offered the Sonics route. While this is not necessarily a bad idea, you do not have the talent base to exercise that plan currently. Instead, you have one corner stone. You need a Shawn Kemp before you go Supersonics.

Moreover, it does not seem the Supersonics course needs to be different than the OKC model. You could surround Wall+Lottery pick with hard working, decent players with high basketball IQ’s. Think of James Singleton types. They will never block future growth, but they provide solid basketball players and mentors for your franchise cornerstones. Nick Collision may be an example of a Singleton type for the OKC.

Secondly, I do not believe OKC’s success can be attributed to luck. No doubt, they experienced many breaks. But time after time their GM made masterful move after move. You do not obtain that talent level by luck. But this does tell us one thing about the OKC model; you must have a great GM to execute the model successfully.

I think the anti-OKC crowd deludes themselves thinking we can buy a championship. No superstar wants to play in Washington now. The only hope I can see is the OKC model. But we are not hopeless. First, we need a great GM to exercise the OKC model. I do not believe EG is that GM. Secondly, even if we never draft our Durant, the OKC model can be adapted. First, by building a mass of young, talented, and cheap players, the Wizards will be able to trade for the missing star player. Second, the Pistons managed to win a championship without a superstar player, but many really good players. We may not draft our Durant, but if we can draft two number 2’s (quality, not position) and two number 3’s, and 4 role players, then we have a fighting shot. Finally, by maintaining cap flexibility and adding good players we increase the attractiveness of the roster to free agents. So, I think the OKC model is a good way to acquire assets. I think obtaining those assets is the only way for the Wizards to ever compete for a title. I’d prefer a chip and a chair (luck) over no chance any day.

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Greg Oden/Al Horford, OJ Mayo/Kevin Love, and Thabeet/Tyreke Evans, the players drafted before and after those guys. Horford, Love and Evans wouldn’t be as good but wouldn’t be terrible. Oden, Mayo and Thabeet and they might be the worst team in the league right now.
Well, maybe not…

by mrmadrew on Jan 27, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting question. So interesting I had to look it up.

- Al Horford was picked right after Durant in 2007. After Jeff Green? Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!! (But Noah was picked three picks after that.)
- Kevin Love was picked right after Westbrook in 2008. (And Batum and George Hill were picked right after Ibaka.)
- Tyreke Evans and Rubio were picked right after Harden in 2009. (I don’t recall what happened with the Thunder’s second first round pick that year. Rodrique Beaubois is listed as the pick, but obviously he ended up with Dallas. Taj Gibson was selected right after Beaubois.)
- In 2010, Thunder traded up to get Cole Aldrich, and traded their Eric Bledsoe pick for a future #1.

It’s important to remember that another key part of the OKC model is to clear cap space so that they can add assets through the role of facilitating trades. I believe they got Maynor and other things that way.

All in all, those "one pick down" guys still would seem to be a pretty good team.

by disgrunted on Jan 28, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

The real question is how did they get all those high picks?

Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka were theirs but I believe they traded for Harden, Maynor and Green, yes? They also traded up for center prospect Cole Aldrich. They misfired but acted quickly and descisive by turning Green into Perkins and DJ White into backup center Mohammed, while nurturing Aldrich in the D-League for the second straight year. It should also be noted that they picked Westbrook (a talented combo guard but by no means projected to be a true PG) over Kevin Love. Their scouting is top notch and they knew their organization is strong enough that they could nurture him into a perennial All Star pointguard.

That’s how you get things done.

Meanwhile, Ernie failed to be agressive in 2010 and trade up into the top 10 for a second core piece and settled for 1 core piece in John Wall.

Then, we got unlucky in the lottery, landing #6 with the 4rth worst record and on top of that over half the lottery picks decided to go back to school. Instead of acting descisively by drafting up to get the piece you need, Ernie settled for a athletic energy guy with a good motor but little basketball skill.

In the trade department he hasn’t aqcuired a core piece (a la Perkins) either. He is merrely good at aqcuiring vets on expensive but short contracts in echance for a pick or a prospect.

He hasn’t made stupid moves in the Leonsis era, but he hasn’t made a good/great either. It’s how you don’t get things done.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 30, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I should add

that he is effing up the Young and McGee extensions while having extended Blatche.

Again, one might argue both NY and Javale need to go anyway and that Blatche’s contract isn’t that bad (or can be amnestied). One might also come up with all kinds of mittigating factors for not trading up in the draft, not committing money to someone like Afflalo or Nick Young at this point in the rebuild or say the lockout hindered player developement, Flip wasn’t the right coach bla bla bla. I say boohoe to you. A good organization GET’S IT DONE.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 30, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think Ernie's good moves haven't been discussed enough though

Getting Kirk Hinrich and the 17th overall pick for essentially nothing was a great move. And turning Hinrich into Jordan Crawford and the 18th overall pick was another great move. Grunfeld added 3 first round picks to our team and gave up nothing to do so which can only be said is shrewd business all around.

Getting Singleton with that 18th pick was a no-brainer, but many (on here) wanted us to get Singleton with that 6th pick. I think it’s much too early to judge Vesely’s long-term impact, but I think his extremely high basketball IQ, energy, effort, aggression, AND incredible athleticism bodes very well for his (our) future.

After we buy out Rashard and amnesty (trade?!) Blatche, we’ll have essentially a salary cap of 0 with which to work. I’m not sure there’s another team in as great a cap situation as we’re in in the entire league.

Grunfeld’s work is all the more impressive when you take into consideration our veteran and cap-strangled 2009-10 roster: Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison, Brendan Haywood, Randy Foye, Mike Miller, Deshawn Stevenson, Al Thornton, James Singleton, Earl Boykins, Mike Harris, etc. etc.

Just two years on, we’ve got: John Wall, Jordan Crawford, Chris Singleton, Jan Vesely, Trevor Booker and Kevin Seraphin, all first-round picks in their first or second year, with one legitimate “foundational star” in Wall. Javale McGee is only 24 and will be a highly valuable center for years to come, even if he only tops out at 25-30 minutes a game.

We’ve got enormous cap space and a high lottery pick coming up. I can’t think of another team that’s had as dramatic a rebuild as we’ve had in such a short time. We’re not OKC, and our rebuild will probably take a little while longer. We’ve accumulated a ton of young trade chips, and you never know when that one opportunity might arise to add that key veteran star to the team.

by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 30, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not about what he has done though, as much as it is about what he hasn't done.

Again, for everything he hasn’t done (trading up, getting specialist coaches for defense, bigmen, signing/trading etc) you can name mitigating factors and everything he has done is defensible.

Meanwhile, other teams that were as far along as we were, teams that are just as young as we are or even started their rebuild later than we did are rebuilding quicker than we are. We are the worst team in the league (yes, a fit Bobcats team is better than we are) after landing the #5, #1 and #6 pick in 3 consecutive drafts.

Ernie hasn’t ff-d up bigtime anything and we do have flexibility going forward. But he hasn’t got it done.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Vesely is not very good, Seraphin may not stick in the nba, and Book is a role player.

It’s not easy to pick the right players, truth is most guys do not pan out, so you can’t call Ernie horrible exactly….but it may be time to let someone else assess the talent and make our draft picks

by DCrez on Jan 31, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

none of that matters unless the players are good.

We seem to constantly bemoan our lack of talent, but then turn around and consider all our guys assets that can be turned into a big FA. Isnt that a disconnect? What team wants players that cant even start for the Wizards?

by DCrez on Jan 31, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Realizing the OkC model is a fraud does not mean thinking we have to buy a Championship

it means picking very high in the draft this year while also looking to add legit FA pieces rather than just another set of 20yr olds who can help us to yet another toilet season as Wall counts the days til he’s gone. It’s ok for one of our eventual Big3 to be added via FA instead of lottery

by DCrez on Jan 28, 2012 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

What pieces?

Look at last year. What free agent was (a) worth the coin and (b) would hav come to Washington?

First, you will have to overpay. So, by definition they almost will not be worth the coin. But even then, assume they would want to come to Washington. So, who could we have gotten?

1. Caron Butler. Signed with the LAC for 3 years 24 million. Prior to this season Butler’s PER was ~ 14 for the previous two seasons. 15 is average for an NBA player. Butler has long been troubled by injuries. He missed most of the last season. Overall, he looks like a player in decline. You would have had to pay more than 3/24 for little upside and a lot of downside. This would have been an awful signing.

2. Tyson Chandler. 4/56 million. Plays the same position of your 2nd/3rd best player on the team. Is significantly older. Great defense + little offense. You would have to trade McGee. Not a terrible option, provided you get something of value from a McGee trade. But this is a lot of money wrapped up in someone with some injury history and a limited offensive game. The worry is that the cliff will be sharp with Chandler due to the fact that he only impacts the game defensively. Would you have been willing to pay 4/65?

3. Nene. He got the max to stay in Denver. He was not coming to the Wizards.

4. Z-Bo. Similar to Nene. He was not leaving Memphis for Washington. Plus, he got paid.

5. RFA guys (Gasol, Afflalo, and Jordan) These teams would have matched any contract offer.

Could you have gone dumpster shopping? Most definitely. I would have loved Kris Humphreis. His rebounding prowess would have really helped this team and you could have signed him relatively cheap. But Mr. Humphreis would not have turned around the Wizards. Maybe he adds a couple wins. But nothing seismic. You need to have talent to attract game changers through free agency. That talent was not around in free agency or would not have come to the Wizards.

I do think you can use this time to pick up solid role players like Humphreis to fill out the roster for studs. That is what Ernie should have been trying to do. Obtain role players for cheap for the next three years. That means obtaining first round picks through 15-25, finding players like Humphreis and signing them to 2-3 year deals, etc.

But that does not seem to be in stark contrast with the OKC model. We’d still be losing to grab top talent. We’d just be increasing the number of assets. I just think those people who think the Wizards can add a free-agent game changer are not being honest about the ability to do so.

by zeke5123 on Jan 28, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Let me explain more

I wasn’t interesting in signing a guy over 30 y/o that was just coming off a big knee surgery. And on top of that, I think he’s a 3rd option, so he wouldn’t have put us over the top, but he would’ve been an upgrade over our trash, so he would’ve bumped our record up a little.

Maybe it’s just me, but I would rather just suck completely than have the 8th worst record in the NBA. That sounds bad, but I don’t want us to be a team that has a ceiling of being the 8th seed. If we’re going to go after someone like him, I would rather go after him when we have an established playoff team and are ready to take the next step. Last year just wasn’t a good time to use our cap space IMO.

We probably should use our cap this year or next though, because I don’t know what we want to use it on since no superstars want to come here. I would look to use it to acquire someone in a trade, or for BOYD.

Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG

by DMVLeGenD on Jan 28, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

there are a ton of FAs available this offseason

by the supposed OKC model, we’re supposed to suck again next year so that we can draft top5 yet again. Then somehow as if by magic a big leap is made in Wall’s 4th year that prevents him from just leaving. I’m saying we are obviously drafting top5 in this upcoming draft….there is no need to shoot for that again the following season. Spend money this offseason

by DCrez on Jan 28, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

He could take the QO and be out as a free man.

If he accepts an offersheet, Wizards will match but if he never sign’s one they can’t match it. If he then also declines any offer from the Wizards, he can just except the QO and be an UFA the next yr.

It would cost him about $8mill in the QO year and by taking the QO he renounces his bird rights wich effectively costs him about $25mill more because the birdrights gave him 8% raises and an extra 5th yr.

It’s a very expensive way to get out but if he badly want’s too (and who can blame him) he can

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 30, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Then I do not understand your consternation.

If you would not have changed what they did this offseason, then why call out the model as a fraud? My only compliant is that they failed to make small moves to buffet the roster down the road.

BTW this will be the Wizards third top six pick in a row. Similar to what OKC did. Now, the OKC did obtain another top five pick from the Ray Allen deal. But I do not think the plan calls for indefinite sucking. Another top-five pick next year + free agent could move this team into contention. If Ernie was more creative this year, then we would contend next year.

by zeke5123 on Jan 28, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

last offseason is water under the bridge

i am talking about the notion that a top5 pick in the next draft will change the franchise’s fortunes, it will not.

by DCrez on Jan 28, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Westbrook is a great player because of Durant.

Let’s see Westbrook get the same numbers he gets when more defensive attention is placed on him without a Superstar on the roster.

by jmpalomo on Jan 28, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

OKC Model can still work.

Wiz got Wall. This year they could get a star player with big time scoring ability (a must) to team with him. They have defensive picks this year in Vesely and Singleton. Will still need to cut the cancers out tho for anything to work – even then it will be a work in progress. but would be a good start.

by Staybon on Jan 29, 2012 12:42 AM EST reply actions  

There is no real "model," because we can only take opportunities as they come

Not just drafting the right players, but having those players in that draft — I think Vesely can become a valuable “glue” guy, but he’s obviously not on the level of Durant/Westbrook/Harden — who’s to say what our fortunes might’ve looked like if Sullinger, Barnes, etc. had come out.

Look at the list free agents in 2012 and 2013 — The list of pending free agents is marginal at best. Antithetical to the OKC model, we’re going to have to add a talented starter to the mix. And given the climate of the NBA, prized free agents will only be gotten if they’re overpaid. All the moreso for a team like us.

We amnesty Blatche, we buy-out Rashard Lewis, we let Nick Young go. We now have the full salary cap with which to work, with no bad contracts and no long-term contracts. I presume we re-sign McGee.

Here’s one Saturday night Red Label plan to restock the team this offseason:

Step 1 – We overpay for Eric Gordon

According to sources close to the talks, Gordon wanted a four-year deal worth no less than $55 million — $5 million to 7 million shy of the projected four-year max — while the Hornets’ offer topped out at around $50 million.

If the NBA doesn’t find an owner for the Hornets, there’s no way they re-sign him to an exuberant deal. Say, 4 years, $65 million. Who’s going to top that? We’ve got more than enough cap space for the deal, as well as the desperation to find an immediate talent to start at shooting guard and give John Wall another weapon (and reason to re-sign, when the time comes). He’s only 23, and he’s got “tremendous upside.” We fill a huge need with big talent.

Step 2 – We draft Jared Sullinger

Brings size, toughness, low-post scoring and rebounding at the Power Forward position, a perfect complement to McGee. Strong character to boot.

Step 3 – Overpay Ryan Anderson
Alright, forget order of operations. Anderson gives us another shooter (42.3% from 3!) at the 4, a complement for what Sullinger brings at the position, and makes us a more dangerous and versatile team. As a shooter, Anderson’s floor spacing might be a better fit with Vesely on the floor, while Singleton’s skills fit well with Sullinger.

So we go into next season with:

PG: Wall | Mack
SG: Gordon | Crawford
SF: Singleton | Vesely
PF: Sullinger | Anderson | Booker
C: McGee | Seraphin

With Sullinger able to play the 5, Vesely the 4, etc. etc. Also, everybody on that team is 24 or younger, which is sort of ridiculous. This is a much more competitive team, that is younger and better, and surely with stronger chemistry than the squad we’ve got now.

We’ll have plenty of young assets, in addition to first round picks in 2013, 2014, and 2015 to package in a trade for a star, if and when that opportunity arises.

by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 29, 2012 12:55 AM EST reply actions  

I'm sorry

But neither singleton or vesely are quick enough to play the 3. Not even close.

"One thing you can't control is you never know"
- Lebron James

Wow, words to live by.

by GodWuzAWiz on Jan 29, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

?!?!?!?!!

Singleton is quick enough to guard point guards, let alone small forwards. Singleton measured faster than john wall in the 3/4 sprint at the combine (scroll down). He projects to be an elite defender who can lock down all three perimeter positions, and guard most power forwards.

Vesely will probably be a little slower than most small forwards laterally, but he has already learned how to use his large height and length advantage to compensate for that.

by Llamaman on Jan 29, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

^^^^ This

Have no idea what you’re seeing, GodWuzAWiz.

by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 29, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Quick enough yes. Good enough? Maybe in an ideal world.

Vesely loses his height advantage at PF and will get out musled if he plays against starting PF’s. He has to little skill to start at SF, but he could be a nice energy back up at both forward slots in a small ball/run and gun group that comes in for stretches.

Singleton projects to be a nice 3 and D guy. He isn’t good enough to start now, as he has shown us, but he has the potential to start one day. He needs to develop a cibsustabt 3pt shot and become a little better at either posting up and/or slashing. He has to be a little more versitile to become a starter imho.

In an ideal world both players will fully reach that full potential. Unfortunately, we all know what kind of joke of an organization the Wizards are and thus, I don’t see it happening.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 30, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

cibsustabt =consistant…..don’t know what happened there haha

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 30, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree, but Rome wasn't built in a day ;)

I think Vesely and Singleton will develop into extremely valuable role players off the bench down the line, and giving them as many minutes as they can handle over the next two seasons should help them grow into such players

Though I think Vesely could develop into that “glue” guy, the player who makes extremely smart cuts and passes and plays a role that helps maximize the talents of everyone else on the team. He’s a mismatch problem on defense, either with his height/length in covering 3’s or his quickness and agility covering 4’s, and he’s a tremendous fit for the zone D with his IQ, tenacity, length, footwork and awareness. But you’re definitely right — given Vesely’s lack of “skills,” he needs to play with 4 other guys who possess them in spades.

I believe that there’s a good chance we’ll ultimately end up adding that “star” at the 3 position — where we offer our bevy of future picks, a few young prospects, cash, whathaveyou.

by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 30, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope not

I know he is a local talent but put that bias aside for a minute and what do you see?

A run and jump slashing combo forward with a inconstant jump shot who is to small to guard starting 4’s and not quick enough to effectively guard 3’s. He’s also not a great rebounder or anything.

Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge

What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Because they bring comletely different skillsets to the table

And I’m not sure that Booker fits here long term. I think his effort, defense, and enthusiasm are beneficial now, for this squad, but Sullinger and Anderson both possess far greater skills and ceilings.

Sullinger is the low-post scorer, which we don’t have, and haven’t had in eons. He’s also a defensive rebounding specialist, and a guy who can move over and play the 5 when McGee needs to be spelled. (McGee looks like a player who will always need a Center 2a – given his asthma/endurance issues and inconsistency issues, I think the ideal amount of time for him on the court will be somewhere between 25-30 minutes). With Sullinger’s post-game, he will command more attention than Blatche, allowing McGee more space to clean up the offensive boards and more room for alley-oop looks from Wall.

Anderson is the stretch shooter, the likes of which we don’t have at the position. And Sullinger isn’t that guy either.

We can trot out a lineup of Wall-Gordon-Singleton-Anderson-McGee/Sullinger and run a deadly pick and roll offense with numerous shooters spacing the floor. Anderson’s skillset allows Wall more room to work with, more lanes to drive to the basket.

Simply put, having Sullinger and Anderson gives us options and versatility that we don’t currently have, young players with a ton of upside.

by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 29, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

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