Ted Leonsis' Basketball Philosophy Approaching Watershed Moment
As Sean and Mike have already said, Flip Saunders' firing is no panacea. The simple fact that the Wizards' struggles are so easily recognizable as systemic failure necessitates an uncomfortable course of action for Ted Leonsis. The 'Changing out our Coach' edition of Ted's Take discussed putting everything under a microscope, and highlights a subtle tension that could reshape the landscape of the organization.
The comprehensive situation the Wizards find themselves in is fast forcing them to a watershed moment in Leonsis' ownership; making a decision on a current GM without an incontrovertible case pointing to either retention or dismissal. When the Mystics dismissed Linda Hargrove, it was after several seasons of losing with nothing approaching a demonstrable plan and a ride on the coaching carousel no DC fan is a stranger to.
So, when Ted says:
Right now – everything is under a microscope – we know we have to make more investment in additional player development and we shall.
via Ted's Take
He has to know how disturbingly reactionary that sounds in conjunction with the abrupt hiring of Joe Connelly. Was Flip Saunders against such a personnel move? In other words, was this a premeditated move Flip was against?
The club maintains that assistant coach Don Zierden acts as a big-man coach for JaVale and other post players, and they were unaware of Pamela’s specific concerns.
Mike Wise via Washington Post
If the club didn't know (although the thought of Pam McGee quietly enduring any perceived injustice to her son beggars credibility), Flip certainly wasn't against it, which directly implies a snap decision to fix an embarrassingly glaring need in the wake of the Mike Wise interview. Firing Flip Saunders and hiring Joe Connelly in rapid sequence while promising to make player development a priority feels like slapping a Band-Aid on a broken bone.
What happens between now and the end of the coming free agency period is crucial to the future of the franchise. How Ted navigates the paradox of active ownership and effective organizational management will determine the fate of the current rebuild.
Some questions:
- Why did it take a player's mom complaining to a journalist to get a player development specialist on staff?
- Ted talked about "keeping it simpler and more efficient as to game plans" and Randy Wittman had similar things to say after the Bobcats victory. If the players were overloaded, is there no forum for Ted to bring pressing concerns on that score to the head coach's attention?
- While that might seem like a trivial point, an argument could be made that not being aware of the immediate need for a developmental specialist on the team is in violation of no less than five points of the Ten Point Plan. Where does the finger point on this one?
Of course, there's the issue of roster construction as well. Another of Ted's Ten Points:
Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don't deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system.
As previously stated, Mike and Sean fleshed this point out beautifully. Ernie Grunfeld has executed some nifty moves, getting Caron Butler for Kwame Brown was an absolute heist and securing his services for a reasonable price was big as well. His ability to land a pick and a prospect via trades while acquiring veterans on short-term deals has provided definite results; also a key tenet of the Ten Point Plan.
The concern many Wizards fans share regarding the GM is not one of ability, for Grunfeld is surely an able technician, but one of vision. Three-fifths of the contending core he assembled in DC were spare parts for the Mavericks during their title run. Of course, the curse of les boulez means fans will never know just how good that group really was, though many still feel it was a second round playoff team at best. Quite simply, following the drafting of John Wall, little has been done to put fears of an incoherent team to rest. The roster as put together has exacerbated those fears for many, and so we approach the titular watershed moment in Ted's ownership.
Does he stick with Ernie? The two must have agreed on a definite plan for the rebuild (point one of ten), was institutional tanking to the point of the current dearth of shooters in there? Restructuring and extending Andray Blatche was pulled off with technical prowess, but on threadbare promise. When it comes to trades, excepting the beautiful Lakers maneuver, it is obvious Ernie is used to making a little leverage yield appreciable results. But what about a lot of leverage?
Look to the trade deadline with bated breath. While a big part of Ernie's job performance will be graded on how the current batch develops over the season, he will make a move if one presents itself and one wonders if the scope of that move might be uncharacteristically dramatic if the team fails to achieve some sort of consistency. It will be on the strength of player development and any moves made before the break that Ted will make his decision on EG.
In essence, he will have to decide if he wants to change horses midstream. Before he knows if Ernie can surround John Wall with the talent to take this team to even a below average record, he will have to commit one way or the other. Effective organizational management demands you pick the right people for the job and get out of their way, but when they give you cause for doubt at a critical juncture do you double down or take a more active role than you originally planned? This is the crux of Ted's dilemma.
There's no denying continuity at the GM position would be any owner's first instinct, but a key phrase from the Ten Point Plan demands the ability to be brutally honest about what needs to happen. Keeping Ernie is relatively comfortable, but the safe road rarely leads to glory.
They made the fatal decision: they'd chosen always the clear, safe course that leads ever downward into stagnation.
Frank Herbert's Dune via Philosopher's Notes
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I hope that by the end of the day, there are 200+ comments to this post
Because this is exactly the discussion we should be having now.
The timing is perfect to go back to Ted’s 10 Point Plan. Reading it, my reactions are:
- I still think it’s a good plan. Others may reasonably disagree, however.
- I think the Wizards are following a lot of it.
- Although I have been vocal about the need to get rid of Ernie, when I read the 10 point plan, it seems more of the failures might be Ted’s or Flip’s than I originally thought.
The most obvious failure or violation of the plan was by Flip — Point #6’s don’t fight or criticize in public. Now, maybe that point only relates to management, not the players, but reading point #5, it seems at least the spirit of #6 should apply to players.
The biggest failure, however, relates to Point #4’s, “Invest in scouting, development, and a system,” particularly development. Where is that investment? Nowhere. The most glaring example: bringing in a shooting coach, particularly for Vesely, for a handful of days. Unbelievable. Shooting, of all things, requires repetition, repetition, repetition. It is not a lesson learned and move on type of thing. As evidence, check out Brendan Haywood’s free throw stats since the year he worked with Hopla.
So, the question becomes, who is responsible for the lack of investment in development? Is it Ted, for wanting to do things cheaply? Is it Ernie, for putting the current staff together and telling Ted that they are sufficient? Or might it be an Eddie Jordan/Tom Thibodeau situation, where Ernie wanted to bring in more guys, but Flip resisted?
Lots of good stuff to talk about here.
by disgrunted on Jan 27, 2012 7:49 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yeah
This is a problem that goes deeper than ‘Fire Flip!’/‘Fire Ernie!’, the organizational philosophy has been compromised and it’s up to Ted to call both himself and the staff to account.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hey
That hurt :(
Vinny & Zorn....Boudreau....Riggleman....Flip....Addition By Subtraction.
by FireFLIP on Jan 27, 2012 2:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Of course
That doesn’t mean those are bad ideas :p
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Ted's points came out in 2009, i wonder if they have been modified
because there are violations all over the place.
Building from the draft?
I’m not sure that building from the draft is the best way to improve. At least if it means excluding all other methods of improving your team. Certainly, it is a slow improvement at best. There simply aren’t that many college or international players ready to step in and make a contribution in their first year. Mike’s earlier post about the “Seattle model” made a lot of sense to me. You need to bring in solid pros each year. Some exceed your expectations and become keepers. My own view is that you don’t go from 20 wins to 50 wins overnight. It is an incremental process. And each year, you should seek to improve. I have definitely moved to the idea that a good GM tries to make things happen. You can’t get too sentimental about the role players you drafted. You need to be bold about making deals. I think that a team should turnover approximately a third of their roster each year.
As far as trades go, it seems like we are the kid brother now helping out the big boys as they try move up. So we help out Chicago in exchange for a draft pick. We help out Atlanta and New York. It would be nice if we were the ambitious one for a change. I love how Portland deals used to dominate the draft night transactions when Prichard (sp?) ran them.
by hotplate on Jan 27, 2012 8:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
agree 100%
Ted has to get off this OkC foolishness, it worked because KD is ultra-elite as a player AND teammate. Cannot sit back and hope John is at that level, while we keep brnging in wave after wave of young bucks who don’t know how to play and/or don’t have much skill. Ted has shown an open disdain for FA moves instead preferring “the right way” to build. BS! We’ll have a very high pick this year, yet another lotto pick the following year cannot be the unspoken goal.
how about
The Seattle model. When they had Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp, the signed quality veterans around them to ease their tradition. And did not throw away the future in the process. Even though they didnt win it, that model took them to the finals.
Vinny & Zorn....Boudreau....Riggleman....Flip....Addition By Subtraction.
by FireFLIP on Jan 27, 2012 11:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kurt Thomas and Oberto both left the Spurs after '08 season
is signing Thomas instead of Oberto the kind of move that would have had a positive ripple effect, as in maybe Javale, Booker, and even Dray would be better players? At least Javale? Never know, but Oberto had a heart condition issue that was unresolved and ernie STILL signed him
I’m not sure that building from the draft is the best way to improve.
If you don’t build up assets – you can never make that one blockbuster trade to change the franchise….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Jan 27, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The upheaval is happening now
and is the first major upset in non-player personnel. I would say how Ted chooses to proceed from here would easily constitute a watershed moment
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
Second, you seem to have changed your tune
Weren’t you saying two weeks ago that the owner shouldn’t be second guessing the coach and GM?
I believe I said something to the tune
of effective organizational management requires you pick the right people for the job and get the hell out of the way. From December, emphasis mine:
Consistency with respect to maintaining those areas of responsibility is key. Let’s fast-forward to adulthood. You are overseeing a group of employees to whom you have delegated objectives with specific limitations on how they can achieve them. Those limitations are your control and also a good faith agreement.With the recent string of events it isn’t rocket science to conclude the ball has been dropped. With the good faith agreement broken, ownership must take a more active role before it can step back, which is why I stated above:
How Ted navigates the paradox of active ownership and effective organizational management will determine the fate of the current rebuild.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
Third, how is that no one knew....
….that Gene Banks had been replaced by a midget?
Well...
Zierden’s been on staff since 2009, and Banks is still there…but I understand you’re asking about their specific roles…and I don’t know what happened, or even if it was a shared role between the two assistants, or what…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Seeing as how Flip was executed for his strategy
couldn’t resist…but on a more serious note…yup
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
And sometimes brilliant execution can make up for a flawed plan
but as military men like to say, no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry
Disgruntled said he wanted 200 comments.
by Izman on Jan 27, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Fifth, the person setting the strategy...
…needs to continuously revisit it to make sure it is on track.
That gets me back to my first point. The watershed moment has pasted. Ted’s late.
This is part of the paradox mentioned earlier
and partially referenced when I asked if
there [is] no forum for Ted to bring pressing concerns on [the Ten Point Plan] to the head coach’s attention?Ted opted for the laissez faire approach and how he chooses to correct the course aside from simply selecting new personnel represents the titular watershed moment.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Ted's foolish, foolish strategy. Does not work in the NBA
“Draft players that fit the system, not the best player. Draft the best player for the system. Don’t deviate or get seduced by agents, media demands, or by just stats or hype. Envision how this player will slide into your system.”
This is plain stupid.
You draft the best players and you design your system around the strengths of your players.
I am stunned Ted said this. He needs to change his philosophy or sell the team.
We ain’t winning nothing with this crappy philosophy.
The NBA starts with talent. Period. No Talent then No Wins.
by jmpalomo on Jan 27, 2012 8:41 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed.
And I don’t think EG drafted for the system anyway. Thankfully – otherwise we wouldn’t have John Wall. Look, with the culture we had, EG had to draft BPA WITH Character first. That’s why we have the roster construction we have. Not because EG is some sort of idiot that doesn’t understand roster construction.
Yes and no
The Wizards picked John Wall — they never in a million years should have picked a different player because he fit a “system” they had in mind.
But once John Wall has been picked, then they need to choose a system that fits his talents (I think they are finally getting around to that, or at least implementing that system), and THEN choose players that fit that system, even if there might be marginally more talented players available.
by disgrunted on Jan 27, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I was attempting to state in my last post
The value of Nick Young, Andray Blatche, and JaVale McGee are obvious in and of themselves. However, as parts of the system that was in place, not so much. The obvious disconnect then, between the FO and the coaching staff is one that continues to worry me.
To me, it is akin to the Kurt Rambis failure in Minny. He was going to do his damndest to put the Triangle into place, no matter what the results. Now is that the fault of Rambis for being so stubborn in instituting his system? Or the fault of Kahn and others for not giving him the right pieces?
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Minnesota did not "need" Derrick Williams but they drafted him because he was far and beyond the Superior Talent Available
Should they have drafted Klay Thompson instead because they “desperately” needed a shooting guard?
Always draft the Superior Talent in the NBA. Always!
disgrunted explicitly stated marginal differences in talent could be trumped
and went so far as to say
[the Wiz] never in a million years should have picked a different player because he fit a "system" they had in mind.Which should directly imply he would never suggest the T-Wolves should have gone with Klay over DWill…and even THAT is glossing over what a mess the T-Wolves are at the 3 without DWill between Beasely’s conscience-less gunning, Wes Johnson’s failings and Martell Websters broken-ness
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Two responses here -
First, note that I said “marginally” above. Derrick Williams was not just “marginally” better than anyone else available. (Holding breath, fearful of Rook’s 20 paragraph response on Kanter….)
Second, I would argue that Minnesota hadn’t established a system yet, and hadn’t found that #1 guy yet. Or, perhaps that #1 guy (in Kahn’s mind) was Rubio, and Williams was a great fit.
by disgrunted on Jan 27, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I'm going to toss out an example FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES only
but I know I will end up getting killed for the comparison
That posted some reason before I finished
Anyway, let’s suppose and assume, FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES only, that last season the following was true:
- Sullinger declared for the draft.
- Sullinger was considered a very good half court player, but not a good uptempo, ball-hawking player.
- Vesely was considered not a good half court player, but a good uptempo, ball-hawking player.
- Sullinger was considered a better player, but not by a lot.
- The Wizards had committed to an uptempo, ball-hawking style.
- John Wall’s abilities will be exploited best in an uptempo, ball-hawking style, not a grind it out, dump it in the post half court offense.
ASSUMING ALL THE ABOVE IS TRUE (I know you all will ignore this, but I figure I would give it a try), Ted’s philosophy is to draft Vesely, because it will allow Wall to do what he does best, and Vesely will mesh better with Wall. And I think that is correct. (In truth, I do not think Sullinger > Vesely; I think Sullinger >> Vesely.)
Another example I thought of was to assume Singleton and Jimmer were both available at 17 last year, Jimmer was slightly better, but Singleton should be the pick because he fits better. But that example wouldn’t set people’s hair on fire and wouldn’t help me reach that 200 posts goal.
In a few years we will find out who is definitely the better player in your scenario
Talent will always come out. They may look equal on draft day but a few years later we will know who is better.
The issue isn't talent sometimes though, its fit
The fact that the Heat have been able to use Mario Chalmers is an example of taking a lesser talent for the purpose of executing a strategy, rather than trying to hit the homerun.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Fit is central.
Not necessarily for drafting (I’d still go with the “better” player who can be traded) but for successful team building.
Mario Chalmers can fit in any system. Especially if your the 4th option
Who doesn’t need a combo guard?
The Wizards
because I never want to see another combo guard again. We always manage to pick the ones who can’t “combo.”
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In today's NBA though, you need to nurture talent
Everyone’s talented – it’s a matter of whether they are put in the right position. Why do you think the same good teams always find undervalued guys?
Also, to follow up on this
This is why most teams use a tiered system for prospects. They break several off into groups and then decide on the best fit within the group. If someone from a tier above remains available, though, they take them no questions asked.
Almost positive that’s what happened with the Wizards and Singleton. They had him in a higher tier than anyone left and took him even though they already took Vesely.
by Mike Prada on Jan 27, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rook's on the way...brace yourself :)
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Williams is and was better than Kanter....
Otherwise, I disagree that a ball hawking, athlete is better than a low post scorer – EVEN WITH John Wall as your franchise player….
As we have all seen…. at some point, teams force you into playing half court basketball… (Philly did it to the Wizards for two whole games – most teams force you to play half court the last 5 minutes of games)…
So – while I understand (AND AGREE) with your underlying point that a team should draft the best player for the system (given marginal differences in talent) – I disagree that Sullinger doesn’t fit with Wall.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Kanter's got some amazing per 36 numbers right now
I’d take him over Williams right now
Williams is the better talent..
Kanter has some real upside, and is putting up good numbers… He’s also surprised me by being a better defender than I thought he would be…. but let’s be real, Williams is and will be a better all around player.
Still – neither of those guys is what I would consider Super Star material….
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Thats all well and good
When you have a franchise player that you can build around and that will win you games.
I just accidentally deleted my whole post which was much longer so I’ll try to keep this brief.
In my opinion I do not see Jimmy Wall as a viable number 1 option for this team. Maybe in the future after some development he can become that player. But at this point he has not had the same kind of control or success with this team as one would hope. Lets face it a guard that shoots 22% in long 2s and that can’t finish around the rim or hit threes is not the answer for this franchise. Some may argue that it takes time to progress and become a dominant player in this league. To that I’d agree (up to a point).
Now, having said that, I do think he has great potential and will end up being a great player, however, I am not delusional (again in my opinion) enough to believe he is a Lebron/Durant type of talent. It takes a lot of different things to win a chip but most importantly it takes someone who can put the ball in the hoop consistently, as well as, when pressure is on. can Wall do this? Right now, No.
Even when compared to pgs like DRose, CP3, Russ Westbrook (this is debatable but I think Westbrook is much farther along than current Wall) who were able to support their teams during the regular season AND in the playoffs (not so much for Westbrook).
I know people are going to hate me for this but lets take Derrick Rose’s rookie year as an example.
He averaged 16.8 points on 47.5% field goal shooting, 6.3 assists (leading all rookies) and 3.9 rebounds per game and was also named to the NBA All-Rookie First Team.
In his playoff debut against the defending champion Boston Celtics, Rose recorded 36 points (tying Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s NBA record for points scored by a rookie in his playoff debut set 1970), 11 assists, and 4 rebounds as the Bulls prevailed in a 105–103 overtime win on the road.676869 Rose became the second player in NBA history to record 35 points and 10 assists in his playoff debut, after Chris Paul. Rose averaged 19.7 points on 47.5% shooting, 6.3 assists and 4.9 rebounds per game in his playoff debut, as the Bulls were defeated by the Celtics in 7 games.
That’s pretty damn good for a rook in his first playoff stint. He played up to the competition. They might not have won but he gave his team a very great chance of doing so (I remember that series. It was awesome).
What has Wall done these first two seasons (non-stats wise/ getting close to a Triple Double in a blowout doesn’t cut it for me) to improve this team? If anything we’re getting WORSE. It’s not his fault. I’m not advocating it is. But if he were the talent we seem to pump him up to be then we certainly should’ve seen an increase in won games this year.
So in conclusion what I am asking this community is whether it is worth the investment to put pieces around a player that may ultimately have been never suited for the role to begin with. Say we do build around Wall and he turns into a bust. What then?
So, why not go for the best pick? I’d say its perfect for this team. What system do we currently have to put pieces in anyways!?!
also disgrunted this was not actually meant as a response to you. your comment was just a perfect segway for my argument. What if Sullinger happens to turn into a Tim Duncanesque player (highly unlikely)
by bigswinrings on Jan 27, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Marginally Apart does not exist in the NBA Draft
It does in the NFL, but not in the NBA.
Take the top 5 picks in the great 2003 NBA Draft:
Lebron
Milicic
Carmelo
Bosh
Wade
If we re ranked them I would put them:
Lebron
Wade
Carmelo
Bosh
Milicic (trash)
It’s all about being a great talent evaluator. What seems marginal is really not.
I would not even put Carmelo or Bosh in the same talent category as Wade.
I would not put Wade in the same category as Lebron.
A good and interesting point
But how about this: LeBron vs. Wade. I don’t think you can state that one is clearly better than the other.
What happened to Cleveland when Lebron left?
Basically the same team but without Lebron.
From Championship contender to the worst team in the NBA.
Here's a way to think about the draft
See http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm
Last year, no stars and only 2 solid players (according to that rating scale, but my opinion).
This coming year, 3 stars (2 from Kentucky and 1 from NC – you guess), and about 7-8 solid players.
Keep in mind that the Wiz not only have to improve, but they have to improve much more than other teams to move up in the standings.
But only two of those guys have definitively proven that you can
create an entire team around them Both Bosh and Melo have issues which necessitate the need for another superstar.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Heck, LeBron might have some too
(though not in talent).
I can't agree enough
First, I’m sure disappointed I missed this discussion.
The “system” is called “basketball”. The players that fit this system can shoot, are willing to share the ball, and are willing to put forth effort on D.
Joh wall was a No brainer
Even a Chimp with frontal lobotamy would pick John wall i would think….Only 2 picks of Ernie have somewhat panned out so far, McGee and Young(to some degree). The jury is still out on the others.
yuck
the hell with the plan. Thi sis a big media city. SMall markets need to build through the draft which has very low potential for actually working. In a time when College basketball is the most watered down its ever been. When awesome players leave after one year and still need a whole contract to develop in the NBA usually. This plan is a joke. Look at Mcgee. This guy came out early. You knew it was going to be a project, and by the time he shows life you don’t want to extend him. Now another team…probably a smaller media market then DC will come and swoop him away at a higher price. But all they did was pay you to develop him for him. Now they get a somewhat proven player playing at a level of a rookie of a previous era when players played four years. And then you are back to drafting 19 year olds and being the basement of the EAST. This strategy blows.
by baltimorebullets80 on Jan 27, 2012 9:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The strategy is not predicated around drafting projects
If anything, as stated, the plan would seem to argue against drafting a player who didn’t even know a system, much less slide into one
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
im talking about the TEN point plan
everything about that plan is the DRAFT. Just doesn’t work well in the nba. Especially with the way things are going now.
by baltimorebullets80 on Jan 27, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, it's absurd for Ted to think we can keep bringing in 20yr olds and manage to build a contender.
Should EG have known that too? Or does he just play “yes man” to The Plan? I mean imagine this roster (minus Nick) with 2-3 more rookies on it next season….christ, i dont care if one of them is Davis or whomever, it’s a disaster
It's not nearly as cut and dry as you're making it out to be
I love playing Devil’s Advocate, and have to note the intent of the Ten Point Plan is simply not to invest long term in veterans outside of the contending window…and even then, the Wizards haven’t been afraid to inquire about what they consider to be impact free agents, have they?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
we may never get to the contending window without legit FA acquisitions.
Ted showed absolute disdain for teams going after Lebron and DWade, actually referred to our strategy as “the right way” in comparison to the Summer of You-Know-Who
yeah Ted, it would sure suck to have DWade and Bosh and
When I saw Ted's disdain
I saw him refusing to mortgage the franchise’s future on a low-probability bet…the Bulls ended up with Carlos Boozer…their key acquisition was Tom freaking Thibodeau. What about ending up like the Nets?
And in the end, the disdain was simple window dressing. What did they have to come to DC for?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Money is going from the Wiz to Monumental
and that is a basketballl strategy. Loot the Wiz first. Eventually they have to put money in to the team. Firing Saunders shows they don’t want to see their asset depreciate too much. Grunfeld saying the team will be competitive in a few seasons sounds ominous though.
by hambonejackson on Jan 27, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
When did you think they would be competitive?
A few seasons doesn’t sound bad to me, although I guess it all depends on what “competitive” means (i.e., competing with whom).
Translation of competitive in a few seasons
We are not spending any money on this team. They were supposed to be competitive next season.
by hambonejackson on Jan 27, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
and what exactly do you think you are going to get with a plauyer that spent maybe two years tops in college?
by baltimorebullets80 on Jan 27, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
I think a better question
is how would you feel about this team with the few extra shooters/screen setters Mike mentioned in his write-up? Is your beef more with the lack of hole-plugging free agency acumen or with the draft in general?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
i hear what you are saying
but with the winds of change (carmelo, chris paul, dwight howard). I think you will be hard pressed to find a team in the NBA championship in the next 10 years with a team full of drafted players and short term vets. I think with the media market and money this city generates it needs a different plan.
by baltimorebullets80 on Jan 27, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
seriously
watching the Clips, the fucking clips!, last night and it made me jealous. Not that they had Blake, but they that overhauled the team and spent money to IMMEDIATELY maximize what they are getting from Blake. Rather than relying on Griffin to raise them up out of the basement through force of will and year of losing, they went out a built a good team.
also DeAndre Jordan is really not that good but they paid him anyway
"really not that good but they paid him anyway"
You’re not advocating that as a path we should follow, are you? (I think we tried that with Blatche.)
i'm advocating paying the going rate for Bigs
and not behaving as if $12mill/yr is an unfathomable amount
I am not jealous of the Clippers AT ALL
They traded two unprotected firsts (one of which became Kyrie Irving), Eric Gordon, Al-Farouq Aminu and Chris Kaman for Chris Paul. God…a future starting lineup of Kyrie Irving/Eric Gordon/Al-Farouq Aminu/Blake Griffin/DeAndre Jordan became Chris Paul/Chauncey Billups/Caron Butler/Blake Griffin/Deandre Jordan? I get the envy…but aren’t the Clips living on borrowed time?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
CP3 is 26 and Blake/DeAndre are 23 or whatever....how is that borrowed time?
It cant be that hard to replace the Jab Stepper when the times comes or a fading Big Shot
Not after the knee injury he's not
You think he’s gonna be better than the quadrouple double paul we saw in 08 in the next couple of years? Think again.
Knee problems (bad)
at that age . . . even scarier than his talent.
I have a deep fear of knee problems (for obvious reasons) akin to night terrors
that’s how…forgive a bit of personal prejudice
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
This is true
Trading away the Irving pick turned out to be a horrible mistake. But that was crazy odds in the first place, so they made up for it nicely with the Paul trade imo.
They will good for some years, but not as long as with Irving, and the unprotected pick this year.
Trading an unprotected pick was madness
but with the Clips situation being EXTREMELY complicated, they made a considered bet that simply fell through…bad, bad luck
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
It helps though, that the one player who demanded a trade in the offseason filled a position of need for them.
The wizards havent really had those opportunities.
That's the rebuild starts
it is NOT representative of the end product
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't it say something about Ted and Ernie
That Flip was hired with no backup plan? If this organization does not replace and refresh every level of its structure, Ted is not serious about winning.
...define back up plan?
You mean succeeding → coach? → philosophy shift?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Gotcha...but what back up plan?
Gotta echo Jheiser3, what teams have those? What did you have in mind?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I think what Unselds may be pointing to
is the OKC model where they promoted an unknown with experience, rather than a retread. However, the important point to keep in mind is that PJ from day one was never going to be the “guy” in OKC, as much as he was a caretaker. I think if the Wizards organization had their druthers, Flip would still be that guy, based on pedigree and investment.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ted's plan just happens to be the cheapest possible way to build a team.
Selling the losses and hard times “we” all have to get through as necessary steps on the path to greatness, just so happens payroll stays in the basement for years at a time new CBA makes teams more profitable. Hope EG falls ass-backward into a strong team, but keep counting your profits even if he doesnt.
personally i think Ted is realizing how much of a massive miscalculation that was and is going to take steps to fix his mistake.
While it may be the cheapest
It’s also not the most profitable. Tickets selling for 35 cents isn’t going to make up for 3-6 million dollar contracts.
It is however the safest. If your team underperforms, you aren’t overpaying them. If your team begins to perform, you are paying them less, and have more room to build.
by gray16 on Jan 27, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I want Ernie gone, but his couple of good moves for every bad move may keep him safe
He did get us Booker, Singleton, and Vesely out of draft trades, who all look like they can be good players. Problem is, they all play similar roles at the same positions (the 3/4). If he can get us a SG and another big man (cause Seraphin ain’t gonna cut it) we may have something to build on.
But can Ernie keep doing this well in the draft? His record pre-Ted wasn’t so hot, so I have my doubts.
all 3 of them should be available for trades imo
obviously they will never trade Ves, he’s the Great White Hope, but from a purely bball perspective some combo of the 2 of them are exactly what it may take to get a more proven, still young player in their stead. As you say all 3 play such a similar role, that should automatically make 2 of them powder in the trade gun
There'd have to be some good players out there
to want to trade three of our best players who cost us little to nothing. But:
Ves isn’t going to be traded cause no one wants him.
Singleton shouldn’t be traded because of what he’s proven he can do imo.
So that leaves Booker, who I love as a player, but is probably our best bargaining chip. But him alone won’t get anyone here, so we would need to trade someone with him. I don’t know who that would be though, unless we really want Javale out here. But we’d better get some good players in return, because trading those two away gets rid of two great role players with a lot of potential still left in the tank.
well, we sure wouldnt give them away
but we shouldnt hesitate to move all 3 if the right opportunity presents itself, role players are a dime a dozen. I have highest hopes for CSing, but I think the case can be made that all 3 of them play at our DLeague guys’ level right now
NY(and also boston iirc) was in a similar situation
They traded a bunch of role players and vets to get Melo. Granted, Galinari is turning out to be way better than expected. That trade also isn’t looking like it’ll work out for NY(maybe if they get the right pg), but the situation we’re in with an excess solid/role players can definitely be turned in to a marquee trade.
But the Denver trade totally transformed the team and made it better
I think that if half the Nuggets team was not currently residing in Denver, they would be better than they already are. It opened up roles for players who were ready to step in, and the players they acquired complemented the system
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Alls we have to do
is find a team that fits our system willing to trade us their team for our team! #Winning!
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Ha
But seriously, if someone is going to offer me a shooter and a high draft pick for JaVale McGee, I personally am not blinking at making that trade. And not because I don’t think that McGee is talented, I just don’t believe he fits with Wall
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That movement is definitely picking up steam...
who do you mean when you say shooter? Jared Dudley? Anthony Morrow?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well I think McGee has more value than that
to the Trade machine!
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I know...just having a hard time thinking of a shooter...but I know who you really want
Monta Ellis!
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I tried
the salaries just won’t work. Its the more logical trade. Because GS refuse to give up Curry. Which was dumb on their part because they could have had Paul
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
They have a prejudice against true PGs...
Would a Shard buyout give us the space to absorb Ellis’ contract?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
My concern is that we are trading one purported attitude problem
for another. Thats why I think they need to float McGee in order to truly assess his value on the market
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Wall and Ellis together sounds like popcorn and mayonaise (sp?)
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
McGee and our Second
for Dudley and Pheonix’s first. I’d take it.
by gray16 on Jan 27, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather have Markieff Morris
but with Gortat on the roster, doubtful the Suns bite on McGee
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Blatche and McGee and a 2nd rounder
to Golden State for Curry and Biendrins. Trade two problems, they get their center of the future.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Javale is staying here.
Pam’s decided Ernie will not be retained.
I know
If they wouldn’t for CP3, they certainly won’t for McGee.
Let me dream Mike!
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Or McGee and Blatche
for Kevin Martin and the Rockets first
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
There are some interesting possibilities if we're opening this can of worms...
GS is interesting…I wonder what the Mad Russian would give us…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he has much to give
the eggs are in the Howard and Williams basket
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Yeah
draft picks in 2016 or whatever they have left to trade…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Why?
They get the center they couldn’t get in the summer, and only have to eat Blatche, who they could amnesty.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Because they really like Martin and he has a long-term deal
And you can’t amnesty a guy you trade for, it’s only someone you signed before the new CBA.
If they like Martin so much,
why did they try to trade him for Gasol?
Been reading on the Rockets SB Nation site— the fans call him “fool’s gold.” He plays zero D.
Bullets fan stuck in CO.
Isn't Martin an UFA after next season?
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard and check out my blog http://www.livefromthephonebooth.com
by WorldWiEdWard on Jan 27, 2012 7:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not following site rules
=)
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wanted to suggest upping the green rule to 3 or 4 recs
That way not every other comment is green on long threads. Obviously it’s up to the admins
"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin
I wanted to suggest having links to the all-time most rec’d topics and comments. Maybe the most rec’d from the last week or so, too.
Thank you good sir
"I wear tinted visor not to trick other players, but so hot girls in stands don't see me looking at them" - Alex Ovechkin
They never have been
You can always email mike or any of the mods
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 12:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I also think that Gallinari always had the potential
if put into a system to utilize his talents
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and no i'm not saying we have to get rid of 2 of them now
just that they arent untouchable players just because it looks like they may be good role players
the question is if EG understands this w/r/t the draft
Does he understand that if MKG is the best player for us to draft, that giving up on 2/3 of those players will be the right move? I have a feeling he won’t.
Yeah
Big issue…
making a decision on a current GM without an incontrovertible case pointing to either retention or dismissalThere are doubts and gold stars so it’s doubtful there’s a slam dunk decision any which way :/
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Ernie has been here, what 7yrs or something?
There is incontrovertible proof, just pull up the team’s W-L record for his tenure.
you can argue to trim the first and last 2 years of his record here
the middle should be where he is judged, and that seems to fall in his favor.
maybe the first 2, definitely not the last 2 imo
If you’re a GM who always a clown like Gil to basically take over the franchise you dont get a pass for what happens
please qualify 'allows a clown' to take over
how did Ernie allow that?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
can you name another player allowed to rehab his own knee?
“Gil being Gil” became the catchphrase excuse for EVERYTHING. When that article came out with Gil running parachute sprints and saying his idea was to push through whatever pain he felt in his knee….his career was done, we just didnt know it yet.
uh, the Laron Landry example comes immediately to mind
The team wanted him to get surgery back in December, but he wouldn’t do it. This is being cited as a prime reason the team won’t be bringing him back. What was EG supposed to do? Suspend him?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
control him, deal with him, whatever
the franchise was riding on Gil’s knee getting back to 100% and the team was barely in contact with him over the summer! Many people grimaced reading that article, I remember hearing physical therapists express serious concern about how wrong Gil was handling it….where was Ernie? Scouting some crappy player in Belarus?
Now I am not placing 100% of blame on Ernie, but no way can absolve him for stuff that happens on his watch. Hell, Ernie really really wanted Critt! You know, the guy who happened to have a gun in his locker already when Gil pulled his “joke.” Eg has to take some blame for all that crap
But again, here was a primary issue with the "reload"
By making that #5 pick, the FO was stating that the Arenas/Jamison/Butler combination were still strong enough to make a run. With insider knowledge, they should have known that a) Arenas’ knee was nowhere near where it needed to be and b) both Butler and Jamison had started the downward slide quicker than imagined.
I think the incontrovertible fact that we were not able to turn Butler or Jamison into more is proof that we either fiscally overvalue our own players vis a vis the rest of the league, or that word had been out throughout the league on the declining ability of all three players.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 27, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I bet EG was ready to break up the team
before the 2009 season, but who is going to have the heart to say no to the Pollins? A half a season does not destroy a franchise.Austerity programs come close. I would have done what Grunfeld did. There is business and there is the simple act of human kindness.
by hambonejackson on Jan 27, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you on most of it, devil's advocate stuff aside
One of the big black marks on his record, and a ’it’s not my area of responsibility’ argument doesn’t hold up
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
wait what?
trim the last two years? Is this free pass day?
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
ahah no, i'd fire him
Just saying its very possible to present defences(excuses) for the first and last two years of his job here. He came to a shit team, and then gun-gate. Its easy to defend him at a superficial level.
Which leads to the point made by Exile’s post. Our success relies heavily on Ted being honest with the complete disfunction of the entire organization. He’s saying the right things, but i’m not yet confident in his scope of the situation e.g. his p.o.v. on EG.
If I recall correctly Ernie took over the Wizards right before the 2003 Draft and declined on a Trade for Jerry Stackhouse
Just a little problem. The Miami Heat then selected a guy named Dwayne Wade with the 5th pick they offered the Wizards.
by jmpalomo on Jan 27, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Biggest mistake he ever made
But one bad decision doesn’t determine what we do for him, especially one that wasn’t obvious at the time. Who knew Wade would fall to 5th, or that Stack would decline so quickly. For all we knew, we would’ve had to have drafted Darko, or would’ve drafted Hinrich who Ernie adored so much.
Little danger of his becoming Nash,
but he’ll certainly a good passing point guard who makes everyone on his team look better.
I don't recall that at all
Did Grunfeld really turn down a trade of Stackhouse for the #5 pick in the draft?
You better believe it. 100% true. Pat Riley's offer to the Wiz
The worst part is that Stackhouse went from 21 points a game to 13 that year.
And then off to Dallas.
Stackhouse had the whole star treatment early on...
shoe ads, skywalker image… Check the stats and the media.
Iverson could not coexist with Stack in Philly, so he was shipped off to Detroit, where he put up more big numbers and then Joe Dumars, whose brain cells were still intact at the time, traded him to the Wiz for Rip Hamilton, who MJ couldn’t co-exist with. Stack’s slide began about 24 hours after he arrived in DC.
Exile as usual prompts us to cogitate.
I continue to maintain that Ernie, who is one heck of a survivor, knows that this time around his job depends on pulling off a couple of successful deals that will rid the Wizards of Blatche and either Young or McGee and bring in a serviceable, stable, quick young vet or two and a 2012 mid first round draft choice or two. These are they type of “stretch goals” that a smart businessman like Ted (and he is a smart businessman) will invariably lay on his top managers. To succeed Ernie is going to have to move outside his recent comfort zone (dumping salaries toute suite to get under the cap, facilitating other people’s big deals by taking on an overpaid player and the cash to amortize him, unloading vets on playoff bubble teams for draft choices) and do some “wow” stuff.
There are a lot of hungry young general-managers-in-waiting just waiting for this opportunity, and it will be interesting to see if Ernie lives to trade again another year in Wizworld.
i take solace in knowing something bad would have happened to Wade had he come here.
outlook of a lifelong bullets fan!
Grunfeld turned that
into Antawn Jamison… see, for every horrible move, he makes a good one. That stuff will keep a GM from getting fired.
The question then is
not whether he is a deft horsetrader, but rather if he has the imagination to think outside the box and make the kind of moves that Portland and OKC have made all those years. He has done so the last two years, so the question than moves to one of player selection.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
His ability will truly be tested in this draft
He HAS to get a star out of this draft, or the rebuild probably fails, and he is gone in a hurry imo.
We’ve had one top 5-6 pick get messed up last season (due to Lockout), we can’t afford to miss out on getting a big time player now.
This year is shaping up like the 2003 Draft
Taking out Lebron from that draft:
Can Ernie pick out the Dwayne Wade when Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh are also sitting there.
God help us if he take the Darko Milicic
This draft does not look nearly that strong
More like the 06 draft if you ask me
He won't be able to, because it is not true
It is impossible for Grunfeld to have turned down a proposed trade of Stackhouse for the #5 pick in 2003 draft (where Wade was #5) because Grunfeld didn’t become the Wizards’ GM until AFTER that draft. (That’s the draft where Abe and Eddie picked Jarvis Hayes.)
by disgrunted on Jan 27, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And Grunfeld picked TJ Ford at #8 for the Bucks in that draft
Just missing out on starting his bromance with Kirk Hinrich, who was picked #7
yea for sure
but i think, without injuries, wade would be considered better than lebron. Dude has that jordan juice running in his blood.
If we go back to that draft,
who’s the no. 2 pick? Wade or Anthony? I think Wade.
So I think it’s safe to say that hardly anyone expected him to be the player he is.
Disagree that W-L record is the way to measure a GM
The goal is to win a championship, and W-L record isn’t actually a very good measure there. For example, a team like the Hawks has a pretty good record, but they’re never going to win a championship.
I think our Big Three team was a lot closer to contention than most people realize. A great team is like a stone arch- every piece is essential. In our case, we were never able to find that last essential piece, a Princeton center.
Money
Ted’s program was built to fail when he decided to keep a veteran, “graduate level” coach for a bunch of 19/20 year olds. That coach was guaranteed a lot of money, thus we were going to make it work. Now we’re on interim coach #1 of the rebuild which brings us to the next pressing question: Will Ernie be the guy choosing the next coach and drafting the next piece? I say No, he can’t possibly be.
The next area of the plan that needs adjustment is the veteran part. A young team cannot learn to win from coaches alone. They need peer leadership. While we all like Roger Mason well enough, he cannot lead from DNP-CD.
Agree that is about to become a big focus
Before training camp starts next year we are going to have some mondo answers about where we’re headed…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I'm afraid
I am not looking forward to what is going to happen this offseason if we do indeed buyout Rashard and amnesty Blatche. With the rules for the salary floor we will be forced to dish out some big money somewhere and I can just see a near max contract heading Jeff Green’s way if Ernie is still here.
I'd like to see how Blatche reacts to having a head coach who's more of a hard-ass on his case
before we amnesty him. It’s a shame, but some guys need a stick instead of a carrot.
He already had that in Eddie Jordan
The problem with Blatche is that despite all his talent, and even his potentially good intentions, he’s just not a great athlete (physically speaking: no speed, jumping, strength, health), and he doesn’t have the over-the-top hard work ability to make up for it.
That's a reasonable take.
Blatche has had a few years to mature since Eddie. Maybe we should give Blatche another (okay, his 50th) do-over. ;-)
by Bassanova on Jan 27, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LALALALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
But I agree that I am tense as hell thinking about the next seven months…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I like Ernie!
There… I said it. Maybe I’m conditioned by years of Bob Ferry and Wes but I think Ernie has made some savvy moves.
His one GIGANTIC blunder was paying max’ish money to Gilbert when there was zero evidence that he was healthy and there was lots of evidence that he was a shoe-pooping, gun-toting knucklehead.
Anyway, I want Ernie making our top-three pick next year. Let him finish what he started.
Bullets fan stuck in CO.
Maybe I've been brainwashed by some persuasive arguments put out by some of the people here,
but I think the Gil contract was Pollin’s idea from beginning to end based on Gil’s ability to put butts in the seats and Gil’s across-the-whole-NBA fan appeal. Still, I understand it goes on Ernie’s resume.
Just to corroborate Abe's influence on the Gilbert contract
According to Mike’s sources, Gilbert Arenas talked to Wizards owner Abe Pollin on the phone during Arenas’ layover in Toronto (on the way to China).
Pollin’s line to Arenas: “You’re my guy, and I won’t let you leave no matter what.”
TRANSLATION: Please accept this blank check.
Bullets Forever: Waiting for the Fat Lady to sing since 2006. | @jakewhitacre
by Jake Whitacre on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Now THIS Seems like Forever Ago
http://coffeemonster.bandcamp.com/track/blow-it-up-wizards-anthem
Follow me on Twitter - @CougheeMonster
by CougheeMonster on Jan 27, 2012 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Don't overthink. Fire Ernie.
Do people really believe that JaVale wasn’t getting “big man” coaching? And if you swallow that . . . how do you figure that hiring a scouts brother is the best way to go? I mean, why not bring in Pete Newell or somebody who actually knows something . . .
and great point about not overthinking it.
Ernie has been here a long time and has a track record….it should be obvious one way or the other whether he should be reatined by now.
Blatche, Young and Mcgee are all still on the roster.
That’s reason enough to fire him.
by djnnnou on Jan 27, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not saying I agree
but this made me laugh
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Our problem isn't a lack of coaching knowledge.
This isn’t about the subtleties. We’re getting whupped because our guys aren’t doing some really, really simple things.
Not enough decisive, simple passes. Not enough solid picks. Poor spacing.
I’m confident that our coaches recognized this and have been telling our players the right things. The problem is that the message just hasn’t been getting through. So sure, fire Flip and some or even all of the assistant coaches. But you do it because their style wasn’t right, not because they were stupid.
by yop32 on Jan 27, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the simple thing our guys cant do is put the ball through the hoop.
we’re 29th in the league for team FG%, that speaks volumes to the roster Ernie assembled. Yes the simple things would help that, but at the end of the day we are a team without enough guys that can consistently score.
At the end of the day
We don’t know if these guys can score when they do the simple things. There are some promising tools there, they just haven’t figured out how to use them together. We have 48 more games to try to evaluate them.
Does anyone think we could pick up Jodie Meeks this offseason
He’s playing pretty good this season, and his contract is up (unrestricted). I think a decent pay day would bring him here.
What say you Rook, Sean, or Mike? Any objections or things I’m overlooking?
I think the danger in Meeks is that he is going to get one of those
Etan Thomas like contracts, which look reasonable at first, but two years in you realize how he is limiting flexibility.
3 years at 3.5? I would bite.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
No thanks...
I think the Wizards need to worry about getting some talented NBA starting quality players – Meeks is a bench player (at best)…
Decent shooter, but plays NO defense. Tweener at 6’4"…. and he has a lower assist rate than Nick Young…. (which I didn’t think was even possible)…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
But are there any other decent SGs out there right now?
I personally don’t want to see Jordan Crawford being our main SG playing 40 mpg next season. I think signing Meeks would be a good fit. He would spread out the floor just as good as Young, cost less, and he doesn’t turn the ball over at all.
I’d rather sign him than resign Nick, but that’s jmo.
by gray16 on Jan 27, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also on the assists
look at his assisted numbers… there actually kind of hilarious tbh. 100s across the board accept when he goes to the rim.
So basically, he either spots up, or goes to the rim, and shoots 65% at the rim…
Sounds like a very unselfish guy to me. Kind of hard to rack up the assists when you aren’t called on to do so. I wouldn’t say he’s hurting his team with his assist numbers.
by gray16 on Jan 27, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great how everone can make excuses for a poor assist record for every player in the League
EXCEPT Nick Young…
Meeks is also a very poor rebounder….
As previously mentioned, he’s an abysmal defender… and undersized… two attributes that everyone here knows that I have railed against in a Shooting Guard since the 1970’s….
I still hold out hope that Crawford can curb his penchant for chucking up 3-pointers with 18 seconds left on the shot clock – and become a decent bench scorer…. As for “other Shooting Guards”, several should be available in the late first round this year… and next year will be the year of the great shooting Guards…(Shabazz Muhammad , P.J. Hairston , Tony Wroten , Reggie Bullock , and several others)….
As several BF posters have said repeatedly when arguing against keeping Nick Young – good Shooting Guards are a dime a dozen…..
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Did I call out Nick on the assists?
But you can’t ignore those numbers, Meeks is a spot up shooter. Maybe I should flip the script, why is it such a bad thing for Meeks, and not for Young? Meeks at least has the argument that he doesn’t turn the ball over at all, while Young can’t say the same.
I don’t know about his defense enough to battle that argument. He’s on a good defensive team, so his defensive rating isn’t bad, its actually better than Nicks. But that’s probably because of the team he is on moreso than his actual defense.
And if Meeks is a poor rebounder, what does that make Nick? Nick averages worse rebounding numbers…
So you are willing to call out our GM for not resigning Nick for 9 mil a year, but you wouldn’t sign Jodie Meeks for a much lower price to do the same thing Nick can do? I can’t agree with your feelings on this one Rook.
the horrible thing is that once Nick leaves this offseason
we’ll be in year 3 of the rebuild and still looking for a primary scorer…jesus, next season could be even worse!
But you don't need a primary scorer when you have a PG who can distribute
like Wall.
If he can get you 10 apg, you need finishers around him. I’d say a PF or C who can play the pick and roll well can get 20 ppg with a PG like Wall.
That would be a more balanced attack, rather than relying on one player to lead the scoring charge.
Besides, Nick isn’t going to lead this team anywhere by being its main scorer. If this season hasn’t shown that, nothing will. He’s a good spot up shooter, but spot up shooters don’t dominate in scoring. With Nick or without him, we need scorers to balance out the attack.
by gray16 on Jan 27, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His injury history worries me.
But yeah, he is the best available out there.
All of the news reports suggest to me that Gordon will stay
Stern has already decided, and so it will be so.
by Unselds on Jan 27, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't take Ted seriously anymore
I stopped reading Ted’s Take when he announced “The Big 3” last season. Really made me sick to my stomach. He constantly uses “youth” as a crutch. And the only way the OKC model would work is if the OKC brass allowed us to clone a slightly younger version of Kevin Durant, enroll him in a school, and for us to tank before he enters the draft so we can get him. Everything so far looks like a cosmetic rebuild. What happened to bringing “the house down to the foundation” (#3 in the plan)?
I really hope he is just waiting till the end of the season to really build this team from the ground up. Ernie Grunfield can not be here after this season is over. That is the only way I can take him and this rebuild seriously.
I'm hoping Ted was drunk when he wrote that "Big 3" post last year
Otherwise I have no hope he is smart enough to turn this thing around.
Heard Treebeard from the literary LotR in my head...
‘Hoom, hmm! Come now! Not so hasty!’
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember this time last year when we all thought we had the nucleus of a good team?
We have the same team. I really think they were poorly coached, and we all complained about Flips rotations.
I think a road win at Houston would go a long way to proving my point.
We all loved Flip as a person but as a coach of developing players his style didn’t work out. He wanted to coach Wall McGee Young and Crawford just like 8 year veterans. They needed a lot more cajoling, hand-holding, hollering at, sitting down for obvious lack of effort.
I really felt like Batche played a good last game because Flip is gone.
Just like said when Whittman became HC and people bashed him for his first starting line up which included Blatche and Lewis, give him a shot I always liked his game plans and rotations when He subbed for Flip. When Flip was out and Whittman subbed it seemed like we played better and were more competitive.
Whittman could be our missing link that gets a big road win and changes our teams fate.
PLAYOFFS BOUND WIZARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Janber on Jan 27, 2012 1:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
We'll see what happens as the emotions from a new coach start to die down
and a new paradigm, if any, is established…if Randy Wittman is the answer, I will eat my pizza hat
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wittman is not the long-term answer
But if he can turn the team in the right direction, his short stay at the helm will be a great success.
If he is back next season, woe unto us.
by disgrunted on Jan 27, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fingers crossed
for a poor man’s Larry Brown, eh? I’m down for that…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 27, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll reserve judgement
For about 5 games before I jump on that wagon. And i don’t mean 5 wins, which is unreasonable, I mean i’d like to see:
1) TEAM EFFORT!
2) Good rotation.
3) Improved Shot selection (much Improved)
4) Coached for the Position played.
But a Few Wins strung together could get me to like Randy much sooner.
I'll be ecstatic if Wittman can cut out the "hero (me) ball"
(but also amazed). I’ll be very happy if he can just cut it back a bit.
He [Flip] wanted to coach Wall McGee Young and Crawford just like 8 year veterans. They needed a lot more cajoling, hand-holding, hollering at, sitting down for obvious lack of effort.
If he can yell at and bench Wall (without repercussions from the FO), he’ll earn my awe.
If he can sit McGee down without Mama or the big guy having a fit, he’ll earn my gratitude.
If he can convince Young not to pout and whine when he’s been shown to the pine, he’ll earn my
respect.
I think he’ll have no sitting Crawford down because, for all his faults, Crawford doesn’t seem to whine, complain, or sulk.
imo Wall is the biggie
Mcgee and Young have been benched so much over the years they’re still removing splinters…..but I seem to recall a relatively quick hook for John after bad turnover vs Bobcats? That surprised me, not very Flip-like
it was at the end of the gamr
it was very noticable…put in and then got a hook….
definitely trying to make an example out of wall….it will either go very well, or we will rue the day he was named interim coach…
We should be looking at trades for high picks
The upcoming draft is loaded, especially in the lottery. Assuming we’re going to have a top 10 pick, and most likely a top 4 pick, we should look at what we can do to acquire a second pick in the top 12. I would argue that on one on our roster is protected from a trade for this pick except Wall.
If we were able to land Drummond in the top 4, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist with a second pick in the top 12, there’s no one on our roster other than wall that I wouldn’t give up for that.
I like Vesely, Singleton, and Booker. They all play defense well, and move well on offense. but I’d take Kidd-Gilchrist’s skills and attitude over their’s. He’s clearly a guy who can motivate others, and we need that.
I’d give up Blatche, McGee, some youngsters, and take on a bad contract for the pick. Hell, I think a starting 5 of Wall, Young, Kidd-Gilchrist, Vesely, and Drummond is a real core to build around. Outside shooting would still be an issue, but defense could be top-notch.
I think a more balanced approach could be better....
Draft Sullinger for His defense, rebounding and post scoring…
Draft Harrison Barnes for his shooting and perimeter defense.
Retain Nick Young (he won’t get a ridiculous offer elsewhere)
Amnesty Andray Blatche
Buy out Rashard Lewis
Bring back Ronny Turiaf
With the cap space, make a run at Dwight Howard and Ray Allen (and/or Eric Gordon). I don’t believe the Wizards can get either, so the fall back plan: Pay JaVale McGee and Nick Young to stay.
PG: Wall, Mack
SG: Young, Crawford
SF: Barnes, Singleton
PF: Vesely, Seraphin
C: JaVale McGee, Ronny Turiaf
The only problem with the fall-back plan is that I don’t believe the Wizards will be able to meet the Cap FLOOR without overspending on some veteran free agents to round out the bench…. (Okur, Chris Kaman, Antawn Jamison).
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
remember...
amnestied salaries count towards the salary floor…
Draft Sullinger for his defense? Not seeing much defense there.
How about drafting Anthony Davis and then swapping him for Thomas Robinson and some other asset, say a shooter?
Make the trade offer very public, and try to get Robinson himself to push for it. DC is Robinson’s home town and is the best place for him for non-basketball reasons.
That line up isn't going to win 30 games...
now…it may be our only choice…but it should be our first…
We need an upgrade a 4 with someone capable of scoring, and we can’t depend on Barnes to to defense…
We really need to make a hard run at a 2, 3, 4 based on who we draft. And then decide on Nick, and make sure he understands that he is no longer the first option and he has to become more Ray Allen/Rip Hamilton, and less Wade or Bryant in his offensive mindset. Otherwise, we just will have to part ways..
...okay
if there is some sort of rule I’m not following on this blog I’m sorry. But this is the 3rd time I’ve had my comments deleted and I just dont think that’s cool….
so its okay to selectively filter out ppls opinions
without even giving them a reason as to why it happened. I don’t think so
by bigswinrings on Jan 28, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions

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