Flip Saunders Fired: Randy Wittman Suggests Things Need To Change
by Mike Prada on Jan 24, 2012 4:22 PM EST
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I missed the press conference with Ernie Grunfeld and Randy Wittman just now in the wake of Flip Saunders' firing, but here are some notes I took while listening to the CSN Washington feed.
(Also see: Saunders' classy exit interview with Michael Lee of the Washington Post).
- Ernie indicating the style of the team needs to change: "We need to play a style that complements their abilities. We have a long, athletic team that can get up and down a little more."
- Ernie said it was his recommendation to Ted Leonsis, and he approved.
- Ernie on how much last night's 20-point loss to the 76ers came into play: "It was cumulative. Last night, obviously, nobody is happy with, including players and everybody. We all felt it was time for different voice and do some different things to take advantage of the talent on the team."
- Wittman on development: "I would have walked with him if I didn't believe this team could be better than what we are. There's got to be change. We've got to change. I'm not the miracle-worker here. We've got to change our outlook on how we play."
- More Wittman on development: "Players get confused when development is used, but development happens on the practice floor. You have to earn what you get on the game floor."
- Wittman on why fans should believe he can change things with him being Saunders' lead assistant: "This is a black mark on all of us, absolutely. Everybody has their own beliefs and philosophies on how to do it. The reason flip and i have been successful over the years is we're polar opposites." He said more but I missed it, then gave a weird quote saying "I'm not running against Romney. I'm not looking for votes."
- Ernie: "If these players develop way we think they can, we can have, in a few years, a very competitive team."
- Wittman on things he needs to change with the team's style: "Tempo is number one ... when you look at our team, last night, the stinker we had, there was a lot of John Wall walking the ball up the floor, going head-to-head, five-on-five, 85 percent of our possessions." He also said they need to get into their half-court sets quicker.
- Wittman on John Wall: "I spoke to John. John's a big part of this. John has the ability i think to be a very, very good player. John has to now take what he has and not just think it's given to him. He is a talented player that I think I need to coach. He has to be willing to be coached. If he does that, that's where good players become great players." He then told a story about Isiah Thomas that I didn't follow. I actually don't think this is him calling John out per se, but I did find it weird that he had to point out that Wall "has to be willing to be coached."
- UPDATE: disgrunted made a good point on that in the comments. I take back my concern.
- Wittman on preparation: First, he said you can never prepare too much. Then, he said he wanted to keep things simple and not overload the players' heads. I don't think this is an outright contradiction, but I can see how it comes across that way.
- Ernie closed by saying this is "a process most teams go through" and that "just because you're losing, you're not a loser." Both are head-scratching quotes.
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easy for flip to be classy
this must be one of the happiest days of his life to be done with this team
one year paid vacation...think about how much subway that is.
he’s ballin’ outta control right now.
by Alpha_Snail on Jan 24, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Flip isn't going to subway anymore. He's happy as hell!
He’s going to take a trip to Hawaii or something.
Heh, he should
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 24, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot about the first comment regarding John walking the ball up.
I am sorry, but it is hard to avoid the impression that he (and I assume Ernie) believe Wall has been a major contributor to the lack of wins, and you could read between the lines and think that they believe Wall was being coddled.
Let’s assume all of that is true.
For those that believe these are reasonable comments, I would like to understand why they believe this will be an effective way to build trust with you star and the rest of the team, and the expected result from the public commentary on Wall’s play. Does this create more or less drama, or is it neutral. (Again, assume every word Wittman said is true).
By the way – Does anyone recall the actual questions asked for those two responses using Wall’s name?
could be read as questioning Flip's offense for this team.
Flip’s passion for 22ft Js not the right philosophy for a team of non-shooters, gotta push more
Yeah, it seems that he's clearly calling out Flip
and not Wall. It was Flips’s offense that led John to have to walk the ball up and go 5-on-5 everytime instead of getting more fast breaks. I don’t see it as calling out John at all and I don’t even see these quotes as contradictory. You guys are really really reaching here.
by Kenny Sky Walker on Jan 24, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
it is possible....but as someone who happens to watche
these types of things, I don’t seem to remember a lot of Flip saying slow down and holding John up. I do see him waving furiously about getting up the court into the set or breaks.
If he was talking about Flip, why bring John’s name up. Shelvin Mack plays PG. Haven’t we noticed a lot more of Shelvin Mack lately. As a matter of fact, who was put in with time running down at the end of the half Sunday when they wanted us to push for a possession. Call me crazy, but I seem to remember a bunch of people saying that seemed awfully odd.
Yes, the evidence is circumstantial…but it seems to me like a message being sent, for better or worse. Some may think sending a message is necessary, but my personal opinion is that Wittman was making a point to Wall through the media.
It is fair for others to read it differently. We will never know.
First one was generally about what changes he'd make
Second one was whether he spoke to Wall about the change.
So how does that end up with "Wall needs to accept coaching"
if there was not a message being sent? Maybe he isn’t just media savvy? Even if that wasn’t the intent, I think it could easily leave the wrong impression when tomorrow’s stories are written…
As a writer, do you think others may use that quote without context?
I'm reminded of Bruce Boudreu's first practice
and calling out Ovechkin for a mistake. If he challenges Wall and Wall falls into line, the others will fall into line more easily.
I think his points are valid...
Although I quibble with “it isn’t being critical”….obviously it is…but there isn’t anything wrong with constructive criticism. My only concern is doing it in public. Tough love can work…and if John didn’t respond to Flip, you can’t fault Wittman for trying something different. He said he and Flip were polar opposites, so that is to be expected.
But when we just finished an episode of “why are you calling me out in public”, did we need another one?
Time will tell..
There's no such thing as constructive criticism to these players
all criticism is hate, and if you don’t think these players are the best to ever bounce an orange ball, you are a hater
by mrmadrew on Jan 24, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ok...last post on this...something else occured to me that I agree with
And I definitely agree with if this were the point…
Everyone else HAS been called out in the media…but maybe the locker room mindset was John never experienced that.
Maybe this was the “everyone will be treated as equals message”…if John can be discussed in public, so can you, so get used to it. And everyone will be held to account.
Slightly different from making Wall fall in line, but also could have a positive impact in helping eliminate feelings of “preferential treatment”
That being said, some say stars should get preferential treatment, but that is a different discussion.
Good point....
I could see that as a possible technique. If that is the goal, I hope it works and doesn’t backfire.
As I said, I would do that in a closed setting, not the media. But then again, I am not an NBA coach for a reason.
Whatever the intent…I hope it Wall responds favorably.
whitman
“doesn’t want to overload their heads” – now how does he think he not going to do that
Mo Evans just got his degree from U of Texas.
I believe that Roger Mason Jr graduated fron UVA.
Maybe we kept them around to raise our collective GPA.
whitman
coaching record
Career 326
On December 8, 2008, club owner Glen Taylor fired Wittman after a 4-19 start, asking Kevin McHale to step in, in a complete change of the organization’s structure, as the former Boston Celtics great had been Minnesota’s vice-president of basketball operations since 1995.
he was REPLACED by Kevin McHale! yikes!
4-19 – that must be why they hired him – doubled Flip’s win total………….
Kevin McHale has been totally successful every time he's coached
Look at Houston this year. And in MN.
by Kenny Sky Walker on Jan 24, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i have to admiit i assume he was as bad a coach as gm
but i wouldn’t call .441 totally successful, or even very. of course, not the best hand of cards either.
I'm glad you looked up the numbers
because I saw the original comment re: McHale being a good coach and scratched my head. McHale was BAD with the Wolves. He pretty much was forced to coach the team his last year there as punishment for putting together such a bad roster. Needless to say, unless we’re talking about Dwayne Casey, who never got a fair shake, we really don’t want to be recycling T-Wolves coaches if we’re trying to develop our young talent, or win for that matter.
I remember this. Wittman stank in Minny.
I’m not saying Flip should have stayed, but to replace him with this guy is not encouraging. Ernie’s cut the head off the chicken, taped a mouse to the blood-drenched neck of the still-running cadaver, and is trying to sell it as a whole new animal.
on the Romney quote...
he said it wasn’t a popularity contest…he isn’t looking for votes from fans..he said he knows if they win, he will be loved, if he loses, fans won’t like him.
I guess he was looking for a DC related analogy….
meet the new boss
same as the old boss.
or the pot calling the kettle black. just fire eg already, ted. clean ship now before this rot festers for the rest of this season. nothing to lose, everything to gain. in the whole of planet earth, you can find a competent gm and coach and coaching staff and training staff to replace what you’ve got now. don’t worry about the $, it will pay off dividends very quickly.
No, EG has to do some things that only a GM can do...
trade (or failing that amnesty) Blatche
resolve (via trade or big contract) McGee
decide on Young
choose between keeping Evans and Mason or cutting them and bringing in two hard working D-Leaguers
This press conference is very disturbing to me
It seems as if Wittman sees himself as the longterm solution. Even worse, Ernie seems to think so too…..
Both seem to believe the roster isn’t a part of the problem, evidenced by Ernie saying “If these players develop way we think they can, we can have, in a few years, a very competitive team.” and Wittman saying “I would have walked with him if I didn’t believe this team could be better than what we are.”
So basically, they are saying this is a very talented roster that wasn’t developing like it should under Saunders, Flip’s style of play wasn’t fitting the talent and young players should earn their minutes (meaning: more vets, less youngstersor what?)
They essentially put everything on Flip as if he was making a mess of a otherwise great situation……
I’m I reading this wrong?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 24, 2012 5:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
that's what they said, but what they were thinking was
We won’t be here next year either.
Completely agree with this
The worst was reading the “in a few years” quote — that drips of “I’m doing a good job, really – you’re just going to have to be patient to see how good of a job I’m doing!”
He’s not wrong, in that the style of play Flip had us playing completely didn’t fit the roster, and I guess it’s not surprising that he failed to take any “credit” for the poor roster construction. Nonetheless, the mess we’re in right now falls squarely on Ernie’s shoulders as much as, if not more, than Flip’s.
my thought when i read this
which players is ernie talking about?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 25, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
I love the grannies on the right haha
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 24, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
EDDIE JORDAN
*clap clap, clap-clap-clap!
“We have a long, athletic team that can get up and down a little more.”
…make your move now, Ted.
"You know how we used to say Wade was Michael Jackson with a bunch of Titos on the Heat? The Wizards... They don't even have Titos. They got a bunch of Randys." - Charles Barkley
Or better yet, sign him to 6 day contract
"You know how we used to say Wade was Michael Jackson with a bunch of Titos on the Heat? The Wizards... They don't even have Titos. They got a bunch of Randys." - Charles Barkley
very sad
that players on this team get their wish……
whats even worse the knuckleheads on this team dictated it…..its not like we have a Kobe or lebron who is unhappy with the coaching….we have a ny and javale…..
You think Flip wanted to be here?
He was asking to get fired last night. I mean I get that you love Flip, but how to reasonably explain starting Dray and Lewis last night?
nope
never was saunders fan but how can you blame him when he is coaching a bunch of unprofessional immature babies
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 24, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're going to have to stop that crap
Second time you’ve questioned someone’s basketball knowledge because they disagreed with you today.
by Mike Prada on Jan 24, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not a fan of all these players by any means
but Flip did a lousy job while he was here
Perfect example of why you're wrong
The Denver game last weekend. Nick Young has 17 in the first quarter. Flip benches him for the next 8 minutes. And there are plenty of other examples.
Flip has been terrible this year too. I think the blame should be split right down the middle, 50-50.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Jan 25, 2012 12:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Flip was a great tactician and teacher
Unfortunately, he was a lousy drill sergeant. (KG’s role in Minny?)
Hopefully, Wittman can beat our knuckleheads into line.
by yop32 on Jan 24, 2012 5:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
ultimately these knuckleheads
will have to grow up I just dont see it happening anytime soon….how long should it take….not 4 years.. you need to show up for work ready to work hard and be professional in every aspect every single day
no successful business is built that way
on the assumption that everyone will show up everyday at 110% just because they should. If that’s what the Wiz have been doing for years than that’s why they have sucked.
I get your point DCrez but I also think that it's on the players to get out of their own way at some point
It’s not 1 or the other necessarily, that’s for sure.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 24, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Sure the players have a role
But the leadership in this organization, from the top down, from the GM, to the coach, to the players, has been a failure. I’m pretty sure we’re agreeing on this point. The sad part is that we’re two years into the supposed rebuild and I almost feel like we’re really back to square one.
You're right
So I guess we haven’t even really finished the tear-down, leaving us that much further away from the real rebuild…
Yep, that's what I concluded yesterday
2.5 years into the rebuild, we have John Wall…….
Ernie and his FO people, the rest of the coaching staff and also the player development people, the medical staff and the old scouting people needs to go
Basically, Ted needs to finally, really start the rebuild as he should have done when he took over. Better late than never though
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 24, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Square one is getting rid of the Cancer in the locker room!
My expanded comment is below, but I need to disagree that Ernie’s leaving will fix everything. I believe that trading Blatche will provide a quicker and less messy way to turn things around.
Blatche came in when the adult in the room was Gil Arenas (a model of professionalism?). Then came Young and McGhee, both with talent, but very immature being silly and joking around (modeling Arenas?). Then Arenas left along with Caron, Haywood and Jamison (twan only adult in the room). THEN Blatche became the elder statesman for Young and McGhee to look up to and Blatche had the posse he needed to support his ego. He demonstrated that poor judgement and individual play was of more value than teamwork and if you are the big man on campus you can say and do anything you want, including not earning your paycheck. It is my opinion that if Blatche is traded that we will all quickly see the talents and skills that Young and McGhee do possess and the reason why they were selected by the Wizards.
Blatche’s negative effect in the locker room and negative impact on the Team must end if the Wizards are to become a team and the SOONER the BETTER!!!!!
I'm not trying to say Ernie's leaving fixes EVERYTHING
Just that I don’t trust Ernie to actually rebuild this roster. Not even a little bit. Obviously some of the pieces we have now are going to get moved or are going to move on themselves. That needs to happen. Andray would unfortunately fall into that group. I say unfortunately because I like the guy and honestly think he wants to do better. Something just isn’t clicking though. He says the right things but can’t follow through. Maybe it’ll work out in a better environment for him. I don’t know. But it’d be good for him to be out of here. Really, the same goes for Nick and maybe JaVale. I like all three guys, but given the history they have here I’m not sure that any of them will ever reach their ceilings here.
Ernie leaving is just part of the tear-down that must happen in order for the team to move forward. But it’s a big part because he’s the guy whose “vision” has created this team, and whose “vision” will create our future team if he is allowed to continue to make roster decisions. That just can’t happen.
by jakenbake on Jan 24, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
the leaving of Ernie paves the way for fixing the problem
It’s not a solution in and of itself
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 25, 2012 5:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
huh....
you get paid millions of dollars to play a game and your telling me you cant show up for work all the time…
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 24, 2012 5:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He tried, but he just sucked at it.
Some people just aren’t cut out to teach fifth graders.
by yop32 on Jan 24, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they were a .350 team when Gil got suspended.
Flip seems a bit overrated to me I guess
Gil wasn't Gil anymore at that point.
Also, Gil was another fifth grader.
Flip did a remarkable job in Minnesota. Problem was that he never had a locker room presence like KG here.
by yop32 on Jan 24, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He was exceptional in Minnesota.
His teams over performed their talent level every year in the regular season. Caught up to them in the playoffs, though.
I disagree completely about that
exceptional coaches dont go out in the 1st round 7yrs in a row, winning a grand total of 7 games in 7 series.
The West was ridiculously strong back then.
And the Timberwolves had a lot of handicaps. Getting those teams to the playoffs every year was a incredible accomplishment.
not really.
and getting swept by a team like the Mavs who then went out 3-1 in the next round is a reflection of how poorly Flip performs when coaching is at it’s most critical.
No, really.
The West really was ridiculously strong back then, and the Timberwolves really did have a lot of handicaps.
The T-Wolves lost to the Mavs that year because Dirk went Beast Mode on them. For the series, Dirk posted 52.6% FG% with 72.7% 3P%. The final game of that series, Dirk went for 39 points on 81.1% TS%!!!! Not much a coach can do when that happens. Unless you think Flip failed to motivate KG to work hard enough? Dirk cooled off and the Mavs then lost to a championship caliber Sacramento Kings team.
As to the T-Wolves handicaps:
Their second best player forced his way out via trade in 1999.
They lost a ton of first round draft picks in the Joe Smith illegal signing.
They had a starter get killed by a drunk driver who was going the wrong way down the highway.
And still, for the better part of a decade, Flip managed to cobble together teams that posted great records in a brutally strong Western Conference.
by yop32 on Jan 25, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
eh, so what.
Plenty of teams for years on end were able to negate Dirk in the postseason, hell Dirk has gone out to the 8th seed after an MVP year…the fact he went off on Saunders team speaks to Saunders coaching, other coaches have stymied Dirk, and the Mavs regularly floundered in the playoffs.
There is nothing incredible or exceptional about Flip Saunders coaching, those words put him in the top tier with Pops et all and Flip is nowhere near that, not even close
So your argument is:
“Eh, so what. 81.1% TS%. Meh.”
On that day, Dirk was far and away the best basketball player on the planet. KG’s an all-time great defender, especially against stretch PFs, and he couldn’t do anything to slow Dirk down on that day.
But sure, blame it on Flip. Weak.
by yop32 on Jan 25, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sorry, I didnt realize the series took place on one day.
what’s colossally weak is making up 100 excuses for a team getting dismissed in the 1st round 7yrs in a row.
and btw, Dirk went out 3-1 in the 2nd round that year to Portland not LA or SA.
The adjectives “incredible” and “exceptional” don’t belong near Flip as a Coach.
Whatever. We're just going in circles.
I think Flip did an incredible job by getting an ever changing, ever under-talented (to go to the playoffs, much less win a series or three) group of players to play hard and smart every night for nearly a decade. You disagree. Let’s just leave it there.
Out of curiosity, what do you think about Larry Brown? He’s generally considered to be one of the best coaches in history, despite only having one championship and a fairly pedestrian W-L%. (Before he came to DC, Flip’s W-L% was significantly better than Brown’s.)
BTW, Dirk went out to the Sacramento Kings that year (2002), not Portland. That Kings team lost in seven to the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, the series that including the controversial down-to-the-wire loss in game 6 in LA with something like a 40-20 free throw disparity.
If a HC gets paid to "make them show up all the time,"
we could hire a gorilla with a bullwhip.
Saunders is the lucky one?
He gets paroled from the nuthouse and gets paid his $4 million per season salary until the end of next season.
You don't need a question mark at the end of that title
Flip gets what he wants, still gets paid, and gets to go have a nice break from the rat-race. If I felt like ditching my job and rather than quit, just did whatever I wanted and yanked peoples’ chains around you better believe I’m not still getting paid $4M when they boot me.
by jakenbake on Jan 24, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No progress
Until Leonsis fires Grunfeld, nothing will change.
by Bups on Jan 24, 2012 6:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
"If these players develop way we think they can, we can have, in a few years, a very competitive team."
It seems like Ernie — falling in line with Ted’s general belief structure about rebuilding — has a ready-made excuse for on-court failure over the next 2 seasons.
It seems to me that there’s at least a little bit of a Cerrato-Snyder dynamic, in that Grunfeld is the most experienced and most trusted voice that’s been in Leonsis’ ear during his tenure as an owner. As long as he’s doing what Ted wants, and can rationalize his decisions to the orange owner, it’s hard for me to see Grunfeld getting the axe any time in the near future
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 24, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
draft players that can't be judged for years and engineer cash back trades
Grunfeld101 on how to stay GM
This is what has me concerned
Ernie: “If these players develop way we think they can, we can have, in a few years, a very competitive team.”
Really Ernie? Really?
The only player with enough talent to be a viable NBA starter on the team right at this moment is John Wall.
Most of the players currently on this team were drafted as long-term development projects with high upside but questionable motors, little actual basketball skills, little basketball experience and low basketball IQ’s. (Andray Blatche, Pecherov, Jordan Crawford, Nick Young, McGuire, Veremeenko, JaVale McGee)….
Others have been drafted lately to make the team “tougher” – and they do have at least some experience and some fire but they lack skills (Booker, Singleton, Seraphin)…. and again, will take many years development and experience before they are ready to contribute to a winning team.
Meanwhile, every year, the Wizards brass pass buy players with genuine NBA skills, high motors and excellent work ethics (DeJuan Blair, Jody Meeks, etc…) for the more athletic player with “high upside”…..
The Wizards organization then proceeded to completely botch the development of said “high upside” players…. Very coachable kids like Nick Young, Pecherov, McGee and McGuire were left to their own devices their first year or two …. and given contradicting and often confusing roles, that were contrary to their strengths. “Andray, go watch Antawn be a stretch 4”… “Nick we want you to be the only player on the squad required to play defense, but if you miss your first shot, you’re benched”….. “Dominic, I know you are a back to the basket kind of guy, but we want you to play shooting guard”…… “Pech… you just shoot… no, don;t shoot, rebound… shoot damn you, what are you doing banging inside? …no don’t shoot”…….
Bring in Flip Saunders to coach a veteran laden team, hopping he can squeeze a little bit extra out of them to get them past the first round of the playoffs…. Something he’s proven he can do from his past. Don’t actually spend any REAL MONEY to give him help in the form of a great Free Agent acquisition – instead hope that trading away an entire year of the team’s future for Randy Foye and Mike Miller will work….
And of course, the Player that the front office placed their faith in, betrayed the organization with gun-gate = leaving Flip holding the bail bucket trying to keep the water out of a sinking ship with an iceberg sized hole in the bottom…
Next get rid of EVERY decent veteran player on the roster…. leaving NO ONE that actually knows how to play the game right. Don’t get ANYTHING of value in return….. Just panic and dump salaries. Put Flip in charge of reversing the two (or three) years of damage already done on the remaining young players development ….
Who is the architect of this dysfunctional mess?
The guy that still has a job….
I say make Ernie Grunfeld coach these players…. Make him responsible for the development of players with low basketball IQ’s. Make him accountable for wins and losses with this team of talent-less athletic freaks. Make him see how hard he’s made the head Coach’s job…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Jan 24, 2012 6:36 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Point: little basketball experience and low basketball IQ’s. (Andray Blatche, Pecherov, Jordan Crawford, Nick Young, McGuire, Veremeenko, JaVale McGee)….
Between them, a total of only 11 years of College or Major European basketball (EuroLeague)….
Point: Three times in the past 6 drafts, Washington has sold a draft pick, or the rights to drafted player(s) for cash – or drafted a European player that never played for the team. Three wasted draft picks….. and that does NOT include the Foye/Miller trade…
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
agree
the GM thinks he has to go for home run draft picks, and thinks he smart enough to do it. hasn’t turned out that way. i give him credit for building the butler/areanas/jamison team thou, that was good. bad luck prevented something more than decent.
He built it, yeah
But he never added to it. He kept on with that “stay the course” mantra just because we were MAKING it to the playoffs. I understand the need for continuity when you’re making to the conference finals every year, but when you’re stuck going in seeded 5-8 every year, you need to add pieces.
That was just a way for him to keep his job longer. And now, he has mad himself an excuse to prolong it with this version of the team as well. Ernie is nothing more than a con man, pure and simple. He sells you on an idea, and you walk away empty handed, broke, and wondering how the hell you fell for that garbage.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
The team has those with long term interests and those with short term interests
and the short termers won out.
by hambonejackson on Jan 24, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First Move: John Wall Isn't the Problem; Blatche Is!
It was just a matter of time before Flip was going to leave. Having been hired to coach a veteran team, locker room problems, trades and now many one and two year players. I suspect he could have done well with vets, but putting together a boatload of newbies obviously wasn’t his strength.
John Wall said earlier in the year something to the effect that team members weren’t playing hard and were not committed and he was right. It’s hard enough to come in as a 19 year old and to learn the NBA Game, but with a shortened pre-season, many new team members and the lack of teammates committed and disciplined enough to win. Add to that the fact that this was the beginning of his second year and that other teams are now familiar with his game they are able to defend against him better.
I believe that under these current circumstances it is easy to see why he may have come to a "why should I bother to try anymore attitude.
Although considered the “team leader” how does a second year 19 or 20 year old call out the slackers by name without risking criticism from his teammates? What could he have done?
Shouldn’t the coach have taken over that role and supported his young point guard?
Blatch is one of the senior members on the team, even named a captain by Flip to boost Dre’s ego and just this week casually suggested that the fan “boos” don’t help a player who is struggling.
Well, Blatche seems to think that he is the Big Man On Campus entitled to do and say whatever he wants. The fans were the only ones left to call him out. Dre’ seems to me to be one of those people who obviously does not respond to positive reinforcement, has a history of having poor judgement and values himself more than team. If he feels entitled to criticize his coach after one or two games it is unlikely that any of his teammates would risk calling him out. He is a cancer on this team.
FIRST STEP to take is to trade Dre’ immediately. He has excellent potential and on a new team with a coach that expects him to earn his paycheck he could be a successful player. But it is time to get rid of “Blatche the Bully”, perhaps for a veteran player like Grant Hill or Ray Allen along with another player or draft pick(s). I’d love to see him play for Gentry or Doc Rivers. If he didn’t shape up he would become a life long bench player if he doesn’t end up in jail first.
- Might be the best thing that could happen for Young and McGhee to find another player to look up to and let’s see if Blatche can establish another posse on a new team to support his ego. **
"We have a long, athletic team that can get up and down a little more."
Conveniently, Ernie left out that they can’t shoot!
I think the ability to amnesty a player is over with this season and trading Blatch with a shoulder problem is highly unlikely. Would you trade for a guy who has injury issues on top of work ethic issues?
they can amnesty Blatche this off-season...
The Amnesty program continues throughout the life of the new Agreement…. but can only be used ONCE.
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Blatche Injuries?
I wonder how serious his injury(s) have really been. Could just be an excuse for: not wanting to play, wanting to show the coach how important he is to the team, is just a slacker, or some other self-serving reason.
If traded it would likely be tied to passing a physical.
Wonder what his behavior was like prior to the NBA. Just Curious.
He REALLY NEEDS TO GO!!!
I think there is a time limit each season as to when amnesty can be applied to a player. Is this not correct? After that he can be traded up until the trade deadline. After that he is your until next season?
Correct
- Contracts that are eligible for amnesty are contracts that were signed under the previous CBA
- The amnesty can only be done during an off season
- Each team has 1 amnesty, to be used at point during the current CBA
- Once a player is amnestied, teams under the softcap can bid a portion of the said player’s contract
- The team with the highest bid wins and will have to pay the player the amount of their bid for the remaining years of the players contract. The original team pays the rest (not counting against the cap)
- The player in question cannot be traded during the whole first season after his amnesty. He can in later years (if he has more yrs on his contract)
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 25, 2012 5:24 AM EST up reply actions
Can any explain to me the amnesty clause in layman's terms?
Does it mean you get to cut a person and wipe out their entire contract?
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
you can waive them and remove their salary from your CAP calculation but you still have to pay them.
they go through a waiver wire and if anyone picks them up, whatever that team pays them gets deducted from what you owe them.
cant amnesty during the season though, and next year is the last amnesty will be possible
Thanks
So basically, the ownership foots the bill? And you have to pay their entire contract or just that year? So if Dray is owed $30 million, ownership pays that unless someone claims him where they take over payments?
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
Dray is getting his $30mill in full.
No one has to take over payments to sign him, he can play for the vet minimum and that amount will be deducted from what Ted pays
It's much more than Drey
and I don’t see how they can trade Drey quickly and they will do anything to keep the amnesty in line for Lewis next year (I would).
It will take some time for them to move Drey but eventually they should be able to – unfortunately I don’t see us getting anything of value if we constantly seek a deal.
If it was me pulling the strings I would – at least in the realm of the press and the players I would say we have no intentions to trade anyone at this point.
Back to basics for this team for me would be running Mack and John together. Have those two learn from each other and set a quick but not out of control tempo that the rest of the roster can feasibly run. Once that tempo is found start rotating Crawford and Nick into the mix- neither of which are allowed on the court together, ever.
Sing, Jan, and McGee start. Book first in, Drey subs McGee @ center.
Find a tempo, teach a tempo, see what you have.
Alright can we fire Ernie now? It seems like this guy has a way with words.
Seems like he always finds a way to persuade owners to keep him around. He has no idea that motor is better than raw potential.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
This is tough
I would say give him 1 more draft but this upcoming on is so crucial to what the current team shapes out to be. That said, with the type of talent coming out, I don’t see how it would be possible to botch this one.
What we do from now until will definitely have a large impact on that though. For instance whether or not we decide to field offers for JaVale, which I am all for at this point.
Someone provided numbers suggesting we are actually not much better from when he is on the court or on the bench. Also, advanced stats that show he doesn’t play well with Wall. Now I put no stock into all those fancy stats but this team is going nowhere currently and while McGee has all the talent in the world, I say trade him before he’s lost for nothing because I don’t see him here in the long-term.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
Grunfeld's contract ends at the end of this year?
There is now way he would really get extended is there? Ted not saying anything so far hopefully means bigger changes are coming. Grunfeld still holding onto “gungate” as an excuse is getting stale.
I was unaware of his contract status
Is it really up at season’s end? Wow, so there is a possibly we usher in a new GM for this upcoming draft. It really should be me…
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
No it should be me! I'm obviously great with lotteries since won €110,- in the New Years Eve lottery this year!
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 25, 2012 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
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