Links: DeMarcus Cousins Trade 'Demand' Overshadows Wizards' Loss To Celtics
by Mike Prada on Jan 2, 2012 12:26 PM EST
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PrintThe Washington Wizards don't have to trade for DeMarcus Cousins. Let's make that very clear right from the jump. However, they should at least do their due diligence and see what it would take. They should at least place that phone call.
There's a lot not to like about Cousins. He has a history of being a tough guy to tame. There's enough smoke of him feuding with coaches where even Cousins' most ardent supporters have to admit that he needs a certain kind of guidance to succeed. On the court, he's still learning to play to his strengths, a process that has caused him to post poor shooting numbers for a player supposedly so dominant in the low post. All these are reasons why the Wizards shouldn't give up too much in any potential trade.
But there are a number of mitigating factors to consider. The obvious is the presence of John Wall. Remember that Wall is the cornerstone of the rebuilding project, and whether he ends up being the guy the Wizards expect him to be or not, the whole team depends on him. If he's getting frustrated with the pieces around him now, there needs to be lots of consideration made to bringing in someone he knows. Cousins and Wall have danced around the issue a bit, but if there's any player who could help keep Cousins in line, it's Wall. Again, something to keep in mind, not necessarily saying this is why the Wizards have to trade for him.
The other thing to consider is that the Kings' situation is really screwed up. As Tom Ziller wrote on Sactown Royalty, Paul Westphal's statement was among the most self-serving and pointless things I've ever seen released to the public. It's bizarre and it serves absolutely no purpose other than to humiliate Cousins. As Ziller notes on the mothership, this isn't out of character for Westphal, a coach who so thoroughly pissed off Gary Payton (a great player with similar anger issues to Cousins) in his last coaching stunt that no team other than the Kings considered him for a coaching vacancy in a decade. The Kings are also a roster of mismatched parts, a product of general manager Geoff Petrie's ill-advised rebuilding plan of "throw a bunch of youngsters together with no guidance and see what sticks." (This is the danger of a Capitals-like rebuilding plan, by the way). None of this is to say Cousins is an angel, but there's ample reason to believe he can be rehabilitated in a better environment.
We're getting all the requisite denials from Kings management, so maybe Cousins won't get dealt. But as a means of exploring all avenues to improve, the Wizards need to make the call. There are risks, which is why I would hesitate to give up too much. But here's my offer to the Kings, keeping all these things in mind:
Andray Blatche, Jordan Crawford OR Kevin Seraphin and a draft pick (top 10 protected in 2012, top seven in 2013, top five in 2014) FOR Cousins and Francisco Garcia
No way I'm including JaVale McGee in the deal, because he's finally starting to emerge. I'm also not including Jan Vesely without seeing him play a game, and I'm not including Chris Singleton either. However, if there's a way to move Blatche (a priority because I don't think having him and Cousins in the same locker room is a good idea), the Wizards should think about it.
Essentially, this deal works out as two trades.
- TRADE 1: Cousins for the protected draft pick. With this draft being deep, I'm making sure I'm careful with the protections. Structuring it this way seems like the safest way to make it valuable and still preserve the chance to add another building block in a deep draft.
- TRADE 2: Dump Blatche and add one young player as incentive and get Garcia, a good vet with a so-so deal ($5.8 million this year, $6.1 million in 2012-13, team option for $6.4 million in 2013-14) who can play both backcourt positions.
That's my offer to consider. Of course, the Wizards need to do tons of background research on Cousins to see if it's worth it, but that's work that needs to be done. From there, if Sacramento rejects, so be it. Like we said at the jump, the Wizards don't have to make this deal.
But it's worth a phone call at least.
(More links below the jump)
- More on the Cousins situation from J.A. Adande, CSN Washington and the Yahoo! Sports crew.
- Recaps of last night's game from us, Washington Post (blog, game story) Washington Times, Washington Examiner, CSN Washington, Truth About It, SB Nation Boston, ESPN Boston, WEEI, Celtics Hub, CSN New England, Celtics Blog, Boston Globe, Boston Herald,
- Former Washington Post beat writer Ivan Carter is now doing sideline reporting. Watch his interview with Ernie Grunfeld. [CSN Washington]
- Buck and Phil give JaVale McGee some credit. [CSN Washington]
- Hamady Ndiaye has been reassigned to the Iowa Energy [Press Release]
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No brainer...
…from a Wizard’s perspective. EG ought to be camped out in Sacramento and come home only when he has a deal.
Sac needs a ball handler, so a third team might have to be involved in the deal.
by Izman on Jan 2, 2012 12:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
obviously you do this mike’s trade scenario wont get it done. like one poster said that top 10 protected 2012 pick is like offering land on the moon. obviously we’re picking within that range. in a deep draft like this we need to keep this 2012 pick even if we’ll probably end up picking 8th when we should be picking 2nd. whatever. bullets luck….i don’t think blatche is going to be enough so i think we need to give up the 2013 first round pick top 5 protected or 2014 3 protected, vesely or singleton, and maybe take back a not so great contract like garcia. both sides win….nobody sees potential in blatche anymore, we have to give it more of a shot than this. this will say a lot to john wall
Ok
My point of view is that everybody other than Wall, McGee and an unprotected first round pick is on the block. Maybe Sac think Vesely is the second coming, which would be great by me. Or maybe they see something in Seraphin or somebody else. That’s what makes trades come out to be win-win.
If not Cuz, the Wiz need a big-time player – now! Our team will soon be 0-8 and on the way to 3-17, and the keepers will be getting increasingly discouraged.
Don’t be surprised if the NBA gets involved in this situation – proactively. The Wiz are messing up with a potential new face of the NBA in JW.
by Izman on Jan 2, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are most likely correct
….But the league got involved with CP3 and the LA teams in a way no one thought was possible. Also, James, Wade and Bosh set a new standard for player collusion, which nobody predicted.
The league knows that Cousins and Wall are talking. Heck, they sit next to each other at the Cat games.
The Cuz situation makes the league look bad and hurts the Sac franchise. Likewise, the Wiz franchise is spinning towards oblivion with its own set of problems. If Ted sits back and does nothing, the pressure will continue to build.
Connect the dots, and I’ve got to believe these issues have got the league’s attention. We’ll never know their behind-the-scenes proddings on these issue, if any. But with the stated push for parity, they can’t be happy with what’s happening in Sactown and Wizland.
Hopefully, the league will surprise you, or Ted will take command of the situation and act first.
perhaps you're putting more weight on the Wizards and Kings fortunes than the league does?
I dont think the league cares if the Wiz go 0-66. We’re already the official laughingstocks of the nba, being the butt of every sportcenter joke is just more PR for the nba really
got you
i doubt the nba will get involved with this. there are enough stars in big markets now. i think. i agree we need a big time player and cousins fits the bill. calipari was able to contain him in college so i dont see why a nba coach cant. as with most ppl i think fans and writers for teams overvalue average players on the team they root for/cover. vesely is no dirk nowitzki. not saying he wont be good or even an all star but he wont be that good. euro scouting now is much better than it was when dirk got drafted…cousins is the most rare of rare commodities in the nba. skilled, powerfully built centers with offensive ability. he also lost a lot of weight and is still really young. he also is a guy who would probably re-up with us bc his boy is on the team and he’s in dc for the summers anyway. this is a win win. just get this deal done w/o trading wall or mcgee. id try and hold on to young also but if you can’t whatever. he can bounce too.
Just what we need on a struggling team desperately trying to rebuild:
A cancerous presence in the locker room. As for trading a top 10 pick in 2012 – the Wizards will likely select in the top 5 in 2012, and you’d part with that for this guy? I wouldn’t.
by satchmore on Jan 2, 2012 12:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ah, I see
But isn’t 2012 expected to be a pretty deep draft? Would Cousins go at 11 if he was in this draft?
Cousins would go before #11 in the '12 draft
This draft is projected to be good and deep, but not good and deep enough to keep a talented legit big like Cousins out of the top 10. No way!
Top 10? You guys forget, if it wasn't for his maturity issues, Cousins had #1 overall talent in a draft with JOHN WALL
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 2, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I don't think Mike is suggesting Cousins wouldn't be taken before 11
rather that there’s no way he would fall past 11
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 2, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Shit, yeah, that's what I meant
Not worded well.
by Mike Prada on Jan 2, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Any anyone involved at UK at the time Cousins was there...
No one will have one bad word to say about him. Calipari was able to reign him in. I have no idea how but he did. If the Wizards could get someone like that (hopefully Wall) then Cousins could turn into a franchise changing center.
His attitude wasn’t much of a problem off the court at UK. He was nothing but nice to the fans that wanted autographs and was a pretty funny guy. On the court, he was a complete asshole. He was physical and mean and showed his emotions on his sleeve. But he was tough as hell. Honestly, if he weren’t on my team I probably would have hated him but I loved him when he played for UK
Cousins is young and has a lot of pride
I think he did so well with Calipari because of his respect for his players.
Wesphal is a jerk and it was just a mater of time before this happened
There's no denying he has issues
But if (and this may be a BIG "if’) he can resolve some of those issues then it is a tremendous payoff
are the Kings dumb enough
to take Blatche? and why would the Wiz trade a draft pick – that’s their best player.
Vesley shouldnt be the deal breaker on our side imo
I mean, the guy hasnt played a second and Singleton looks like a real nice player….if anything I would trade Vesley before Singleton plus you’d think Ves has more appeal to Sac since he;s flashier (6th pick, Euro sensation etc) so they can sell their fans the fact they just traded for Andray Blatche
by DCrez on Jan 2, 2012 12:57 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Why trade someone when you have no idea what you have?
by Mike Prada on Jan 2, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
because you have to give something up to get something.
Blatche is a negative and Seraphin is really nothing…the idea of what Ves may be is probably the most desirable short-term aspect of the trade for Sac. And we already like Singelton so in that sense Ves wouldnt be a loss per se. Just saying, to get Demarcus we are going to haveto give up something I would guess
how do we know hes not the next nowitzki?
by rayallenisaballer on Jan 2, 2012 1:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Vesely is the deal breaker
If he’s the player holding the deal from happening, I’d give in and trade him. As long as they keep Wall, Singleton, and McGee, I’m okay with losing any of the other guys to get Cousins
Well, he's not necessarily the deal-breaker
I just wouldn’t include him without seeing him play in a regular-season game.
I know
I’d like to see what he can do too, but I think with what Singleton has showed, you can feel okay about trading Vesely in a deal for a true NBA PF.
I’d offer something like Blatche, NY or JC, and Vesely (or protected pick) for Cousins and John Salmons
the facts are
If Cousins was in last years draft- and Vesly and he were sitting there at #6- I think it would be a no brainer for most people to draft Cousins there
Maybe we can include AB in this deal, but I wouldnt be surprised if they balked with him being the centerpiece item.
A straight up trade is fair value for both. Give Ernie a week to trade AB and if not, amnesty him.
And I think it makes the Wiz a much better team. We cant just load the roster with young athletes who are missing basketball skills entirely. We need some solid young role players and select veterans.
And a core of Wall, Cousins, and our lottery pick (like Harrison Barnes) complemented by JVM, NY, and CS is a really solid young team to develop
by les boulez bomber on Jan 2, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
they may not take him without seeing him play a reg season game.
Can Jan even pass a physical right now? we may have no business at all talking as if he is currently an asset
I think we have a pretty good idea that Vesely's not going to be dominant.
He didn’t look all that quick to me in the preseason and doesn’t have a reliable jumper so that rules out SF and he doesn’t appear to have the frame or toughness to play PF. Classic ’tweener. On the other hand, Cousins does have the potential to be dominant and has a natural position.
If Vesely is what it takes to swing a deal, you do it, imho.
No way in heck
Wall keep him in check. why how , why would I wanna burden my star player with a headcase of a friend. Why do I wanna lay that pressure on him when he has his own game to worry about. Calipari was the ref in college, this is Wall’s team will Cousins be good with that when Wall is throwing lobs to Mcgee and not him, when Flip yells or jerks him outta games for lazy play.
Some players have a losing mentality some guys have such troubles that a different environment is not the answer.
we are not a better situation for Cousins we are worse we already have a team full of guys who are confused as to what their role is.
Laying his issues on Westphal lol come on man Cousins has been trouble everywhere he’s been and I;m not buying what happened at UK Calipari would never put a bad report out on a player even if there were issues. simply because in recruiting circles he wants to be seen as trustworthy.
I’m usually one to make allowances for troubled players it doesn’t usually become a disclaimer for me but in this case I think dude has major major emotional issues.
I think Cousins needs counseling.
and the last factor is this is DC
DC is a grave yard for off court trouble. it has ruined quite a few players ability to focus and be all about basketball. If Cousins in that closed off environment of Sacto can;t get right being hee in DC with all the nightlife , honeys out for money, thugs dudes who will shoot a fool for breaking bad in a club for the smallest slight not sure Cousins is equipped for this town.
Cwebb has commented on this many times.
by jazzy1 on Jan 2, 2012 12:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
so everything you just said
Can also be applied to blatche but 3x worse. If john wants him here and I can’t see why he wouldn’t than you bring him here. Were getting rid of one major headache for a minor (maybe non existant headache here) but with talent. What would you rather have?
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 2, 2012 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We would most certainly evaluate the head coach..
I am a fan of coaches who have won on a big time stage in the past, and Flip does have a resume that most of the coaches in the NBA now don’t, but I would say we would have to bring in a hard nose coach who demands respect yet gives respect. Thats a criticism of Flip that I don’t think comes up enough. I don’t think the players dislike him a coach, I think they just don’t like they way he talks about them.
My two favorite coaches in all of sports are Mike Tomlin and Doc Rivers. They walk the fine line between coach and friend and I think they walk it perfectly. They yell when they need to, call players out when they need to, and just as equally stick up for their players, give them praise and most importantly always have the players back.
If we found a coach that the players respected as both a man and coach this would work. That being said I would most certainly give Flip at least this season to make it work, because lets be honest the talent we have given him, I don’t think Phil Jackson could make any better.
Sam
Sam Cassel seems to fit your profile of “coach and friend”.
Agreed - Sam does fit that profile
If we went that route, Flip should be on a much tighter leash to get Sam as much as coaching experience as possible
Did you watch any games last year
and what happened to McGee?
"I think not sucking is way more of an important thing to pay attention to first." -- Gabe Newell
I think it is assumed the trade is run by wall and its something he wants
that would be the obvious thing to do since you will be asking him to carry that extra burden
by les boulez bomber on Jan 2, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I saw this "trade request" scroll across ESPN last night
and this article sums up exactly how I feel. I laid in bed for an hour thinking what I would give up to get him. I would love for Cousins to come on this team. Wall, Young, Singleton, Cousins, McGee – tell me that doesn’t have heart, energy, and toughness. We would still be a top ten pick this year, Vesely, Book, Lewis, Mason, Mack coming off the bench. Hell I do it for Blatche, Crawford, Kev-o, and the protected pick (might make it lottery protected 2012, top 10 2013, and top 5 2014) if that is what it took. IF they wanted Young over Crawford I probably still do it because we have all said he is not doing to come back after not getting the extension this summer. PLEASE DO THIS AND DO IT FAST!
If it happens, the bench and the court will be filled with gif material.
Wizards will be pure gold.
Skins, Bullets/Wizards, Nats, Caps.
All Washington Everything.
and Rasheed was never as bad as his rep
I dont think he ever fought anyone, certainly not his own coaches and teamates.
He was definitely as bad as his rep.
Landing on a championship squad during his contact year made folks forget how awful he was in Portland. I couldn’t root for him or Cousins.
by djnnnou on Jan 2, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
did he have any altercations with teamates and/or coaches?
for me that is the penultimate red flag, you just cant have teamate threatening to fight everyone whenever things dont go his way….especially when he is 7’ 300 pounds
by DCrez on Jan 2, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His main beef is with Westphal it seems like
And Sam Amick from SI is reporting that basically DMC got into with Westphal and said something to the effect of “well if im such a cancer and a bad guy, trade me”. As far as teammates liking him, i think he was very well liked in KY, and known as the funny guy on the team. On Sac, i think its hard for any player to be liked by his teammates when your head coach cant stand him (basically for throwing temper tantrums) This whole situation makes me think of Vince Young and his time with the Titans. Vince isnt a bad guy but he and head coach Jeff Fisher just never got on the same page, and it was one ugly/stupid incident after another with those two.
Plus the fact.
Nobody can get him the ball. Tyreke does not even like westphal or the offense he is running well atleast thats what I heard from othe sac-town fans who are pissed he did such a thing to cousins cause now that he made in house problems public you have to do one or two things. #1 Trade cousins or #2 find a new coach because reports are coach Westphal and his players are not on the same page(cousins,evans,garcia) that I know of.
I can't think of any.
But he hi-jacked the team and cost them a lot games in a hypercompetitive conference with all the techs and getting tossed . That’s significant.
by djnnnou on Jan 2, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fixed
Andray Blatche, Jordan Crawford OR Kevin Seraphin and a draft pick (top 10 protected in 2012,top seven in 2013, top five in 2014) FOR Cousins and Francisco Garcia
You have to agree Mike, Sacrmento would be laughing their butts off on that one, right?
Geoff Petrie – “You guys think you are going to possibly be picking outside of the top 10?”
well then there's no deal
Like I said, wizards don’t have to make the trade
by Mike Prada on Jan 2, 2012 1:19 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I know...I just found it funny
that is like offering them land on the moon….I just think they would discount it and assume the trade was players only……but if it helps entice them…sure…
Except that a protected pick
EVENTUALLY turns into an asset….
Unlike land on the moon…..
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Can Cousins and McGee be on the court at the same time?
Woudn’t they get in each other’s way?
Bullets fan stuck in CO.
McGee's so thin
He can’t get in anybody’s way!
This is my issue
McGee is the perfect center to put with Wall, arguably the best running center in the league, with hops to keep up with John. Plus McGeebis getting a lot of touches so far this season and his offensive game is coming along nicely because of it.
The main person Cousins is going to clash with is Javale, probably over touches in the paint and time on the court. Also, bringing in a new centre as demanding as Cousins could put McGee off the idea or committing to us log term with his impending free agency coming up.
I would hate to see this happen when McGee fits our style so well and is starting to prove that he can get his head straight.
by BballBrit on Jan 2, 2012 1:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cousins would be the PF...
…and a perfect compliment to McGee at center. But the Wiz will still need great shooters at the 2 and 3.
Cousins at PF, McGee at Center
In all honesty the ball should never be passed to McGee in the paint with the intention that he’s going to make a move to score, unless it’s a lob pass. McGee’s new infatuation with this “hook” is an obsession that will hurt the flow of offense and continue to force low percentage FG attempts. McGee is a unique talent for sure, but one that can make a major difference without needing plays designed for him, unless they are designed alley oop plays. He can score, rebound, and block shots on his own and still finish the night with 14 ppg, 10 rpg, and 3 bpg.
On the other hand, Cousins is a little more skilled offensively and much better at both setting screens and boxing out in the paint. Playing him alongside McGee would work because the Wizards could run a traditional offense, based on two bigs setting screens at the top of the key for their PG. Wall could go either direction to get into the lane with options to pass to a cutting screener (McGee or Cousins) or kick it out to an open shooter like Crawford, NY, Lewis, or Singleton.
by SpecialSauce on Jan 2, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
totally disagree
if we did have a Mcgee, Cousins frontline the ball should only be going inside. Mcgee has solid moves inside . Not a fan at all of the running hook but a jump hook is a great shot for any big not sure wy he hasn’t been coached to pivot into a jump hook instead of the running hook but Mcgee’s drop step and up and under are all good moves. He uses quickness over the right shoulder turn to take good shots. He needs to be given the ball more not less on such plays. thats how bigs develop.
Cousins already has pretty advanced post moves he just needs to develop alittle more patience and passing ability because he can get buckets for you down lown.
i suspect Mcgee's FGAs are going to increase all season
project “phase out dray” in full effect
If one of the objects of the trade(s) is to dish off Blatche, then why not consider just cutting him if SacTown wants no part of Blatche? Then you could proceed with the rest of the trade terms if Sac wants those parts. Cuz would be taking Blatche’s place anyway. This idea would only work if the CBA allows you to amnesty a player at the end of the season after cutting him — I don’t know the answer.
That’s exactly what I’m wondering: can you cut a player, but amnesty his contract after the season is over?
Thanks — then that means we’ll have to keep Blatche on the squad and amnesty him after the season if our preference is to part ways with him. It wouldn’t be smart of him to accept a buyout if we offered one. I really have a hard time seeing how any team will trade with us for him, as Blatche’s level of salary far exceeds his production/abilities as a player, imo. But maybe if we take a player back whose contract also exceeds his value, it could be a 1-1 swap of luggage. Garcia probably doesn’t fit the bill, but Salmons’ contract might.
really. why not?
you can keep him inactive all season and pay him
by les boulez bomber on Jan 2, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
This move is too predictably disastrous for the Wizards not to make it.
VOID!!!
by dt3 on Jan 2, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
at least it'll be interesting
can’t take this being shitty but w/o making moves. That’s the liquid shit of all shit. I’d rather we be crazy-shit.
by FTT on Jan 2, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Demarcus a 21 year old turd?!
The dude is a stud on the court.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Jan 2, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After scrolling through this thread of absurd trade offers
and comments about how J-Wall can “control” Cousins I stuck around hoping I would find something worthwhile to read and then I saw this. Truly excellent!
You know what they say " losing breeds losing which spawns horrible, incestual trade offers of ludicrous unacceptability ".
Great tweet from Michael Lee
A knucklehead is more tolerable if he can play.
This will at least energize your franchise player no?
I will give Michael Lee credit
One of the best points he’s ever made.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jan 2, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
A stud big that can play away from the basket
Would love to see him in a Wizards uniform,
Then hit lucky in the lottery getting the number 1 pick and selecting Drummond,
1- Wall
2- Big FA
3- Singleton/FA
4- Cousins
5- Drummond
by wuds100 on Jan 2, 2012 1:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
In order to GET value, you have to GIVE UP value. The Kings aren’t just going to give away a young 6’11 270 lbs big guy with Cousins talent for another teams trash (Blatche, Crawford, and Seraphin). Cousins needs to go to a winning organization that has strong veteran leadership like San Antonio or Boston. The Wizards situation is just as dysfunctional as the Kings. Also, anybody that believes that Cousins issues will magically disappear by playing with John Wall is delusional. Wall is not going to be able to control DeMarcus Cousins emotional outburst.
by Mr202_301 on Jan 2, 2012 1:52 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
You don't always have to do so.
The Mavs gave up what for Odom?
Teams don’t like malcontents. NBA teams tend to honor trade requests. It’s addition by subtraction.
Who cares if he throws the occasional fit?
As long as he brings his game on the court and doesnt screw when it counts. Which I don’t think he would, outof both respect for his friend John and his own competitiveness
by spotless on Jan 2, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It would be fine if we could give up just
Blatche/Crawford or Blatche/Seraphin. However, SAC would never go for that. And I sure as hell don’t want to give up a guaranteed lottery pick in the ’12 draft.
Why would Cousins do better in DC than in Sacramento?
If your answer is John Wall – is Wall likely to keep Cousins in line, or is Cousins more likely to bring down the entire team? And what does this organization know about developing big men?
Laying the foundation
Perhaps this “tiff” between Cousins, the Kings, and Westphal is just the the crack in the dam that eventually breaks? If January 1, 2012 was the day trade talks began between the Kings and Wizards, hopefully Grunfeld can continue to be working out the logistics of their potential trade over the next few weeks.
The best part about this is that it almost had to have sparked a phone call from EG to Sac. I’m sure the front office is concerned with how their primary investment, John Wall is looking to start the season. He already seems frustrated and uneasy on the court and the franchise owes it to both themselves and Wall to see if they can acquire Cousins.
By taking Wall #1 overall they are tied to him for 4-7 years, if he wants Cousins and that would make him happy (and not like Dwight Howard is in Orlando or LeBron was in Cleveland), then hopefully that keeps him in DC for the long haul…it can’t hurt!
As much as anybody wants to deny it, the Wizards are at the mercy of John Wall. If he starts to ball and be happy, the team will win. If he gets frustrated by the losses and the front office decisions, he will bolt….simple fact!
The franchise needs to make Wall happy and show a true desire to land Cousins for him.
.
As much as anybody wants to deny it, the Wizards are at the mercy of John Wall. If he starts to ball and be happy, the team will win. If he gets frustrated by the losses and the front office decisions, he will bolt….simple fact!
The franchise needs to make Wall happy and show a true desire to land Cousins for him.
Exactly.
Is this something that can guarantee the Wizards success? Of course not. Heck, John Wall himself isn’t even an All-Star yet. (Although I am confident he will be.)
It might not work, but are Wizards fans seriously thinking that this organization is on a collision course with greatness otherwise- doing things pulled from the chapters of ‘Managing an NBA Franchise 101’? I doubt anyone else around the nation thinks so about the team.
The Wizards didn’t even get a single game on national television this season.
I would love to see John with that megawatt smile on a nationally televised game. I don’t know if Cousins would necessarily get the team on the t.v. schedule, but I am very, very confident that he would bring about the smile.
Say “YES” to a big, mean dude (on the court, at least) who hates to lose.
.
"I'm not present I'm a drug that makes you dream I'm an aerostar I'm a cutlass supreme In the wrong lane Trying to turn against the flow I'm the ocean I'm the giant undertow I'm the ocean..." - N.Y.
You saw the on-court chemistry between these two guys at the 2011 Rookie Challenge...
and at a few venues during the lockout streeball phase… To say nothing of at UK. They play well together, not question about it.
As long as Ted and Ernie go in with their eyes open, they should make a resaonable effort to get a deal done.
If the Maloofs say no, or raise the price too high, so be it. But at least Wall will know that management made a serious effort to bring DMC to DC.
we arent at the mercy of John Wall, yet
He’s in his 2nd year and doesnt look all that great, we have his rights through 2014-2015….he has no leverage until he looks like an all-star and is closer to RFA status. We have time to build the team how the FO sees fit rather than to the whims of a 21yr old
Its not like this is about Walls friendship with Cousins
That’s a bonus. It’s about bringing in talented players with a real passion for winning
instead of trying to win, he's blowing up his own team and being the ultimate team cancer.
what happens if he’s losing here and doesnt get to take the last second shots? He fought his teamate for not passing him the ball in Sac, is he going to punch Nick for shooting instead of passing to him?
by DCrez on Jan 2, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well argued but no one wants Blatche, who is playing awful right now. Leonsis will not trade a first round pick even if protected.
"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,
why not make the 2012 top 5(3?) protected
and then trade to get back in to the 1st round, since the draft is so deep this year?
We have a handful of 2nd rounds to throw to teams that don’t want guaranteed rookie contracts. We could then use those to move up even further with teams that want to move down in the draft.
We have the salary space and 2nd round picks to make moves after this trade.
blatche + crawford + 2012 top 5 protected for cousins and a salary dump.
What do we need: An asshole inside that rebounds and a shooter
cousins== a mean asshole that rebounds. I think his offensive game would come back with a pg like wall feeding him.
and we could trade back in to the first round to get an 8th-15th pick where it is very possible to find a suitable shooter.
we got money from the turiaf trade, and 2nd round picks to get back in to the lottery.
we fill two needs.
where’s the problem?
by FTT on Jan 2, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to know how you get 8th-15th pick easily
when everyone thinks this is a strong draft.
by vmr on Jan 2, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
never said it'd be easy
grunfield would definitely have to work to make it happen, but i do think we have the stuff to get least something in the 10-15 range.
by FTT on Jan 2, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Give them the pick.
Cousins > everyone in the draft, simply because he already is putting up double doubles in the Pros.
Jan was our lottery pick last year folks…..
by baltimorebullets80 on Jan 2, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Issues with Cousins
My limited exposure to Cousins makes me wonder if he is really so great. Can someone please rebut the following perceived weaknesses in his game?
1. He is a head case.
2. He is a bad offensive player. How does a 6’11’’ player manage to shoot 43%?
3. He has old player skills and isn’t a great athlete. His shoot is blocked 11% of the time. He is not a great shot blocker. I don’t know this for sure, but I’d bet that young players with old player skills age badly and don’t develop as compared to athletic young players.
4. He is not a good defender: last year teams shot 51.8% when was on the floor, 50.5% when he was off it.
its still worth the risk
He is a beast of a player and I don’t think 1.3% difference in shots made with him on the court means anything. Its 1% difference. Its his second year and he’s averaging a double double on a team he doesn’t want to play for. He’s a winner and the next piece of our development
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 2, 2012 2:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no one seems to have an answer for that
i’m not sure why he gets called a “beast” when he shoots worse than Dray. Right now he is at 13/11 on 32%FG and a 17PER….meanwhile Mcgee is at 13/10 48%FG and 20 PER….are we sure this isnt a case of the grass always being greener? What do you want to bet the Kings would trade Cousins for Mcgee straight up right now?
by DCrez on Jan 2, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sacto is not doing the deal without Mcgee
but my broader point is where’s the evidence Cousins is actually so great? Bunch of highlights that dont translate to his actual production…i’m sure Javale’s highlight reel looks pretty good too
i wouldnt trade vale anyway
I want them to play together. Blatche on the other hand is averaging 8 pts and 5 rbs so when your talking about replacing him with cousins it’s an AUTOMATIC upgrade. The fact that he’s 21 only makes him that much better. He is in his 2nd year (3 games into his 2nd year) and he’s getting 13/11 means he’s a beast
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 2, 2012 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
two early to say that blatche avgs 8 and 5 for the year.
and Cousins only averaged 13 and 11 over a few games. Too early to say those stats would hold, but then again, I thought Love’s rebounding stats would go down on my fantasy team last year and they didn’t….. Thank god I didn’t drop him.
Yea it's early
But I dont want to have to wait around till april to get the post all-star Andray Blatche. Does he even realize All-Star weekend is in Febuary and not April right ? That’s playoff time not All-Star weekend.
of course its too early
But it would still bring in a breath of fresh air to get rid of blatche and to bring in a 21 y/o stud to go along with our 21 y/o superstar. John looks like he can’t stand blatche and already has a good relationship with DMC so why not
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 2, 2012 4:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no he is playing better and showed improvement
by les boulez bomber on Jan 2, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
No. And no again. Oh, and in case I'm being unclear, NO.
And, um, yeah. No.
The Kings aren't going to take that deal. I'd throw in Javale in that deal, as long as we get JT back.
DeMarcus will be a top-3 center in this league.
Yea, as much as a lot of us would love to rid ourselves of Blatche to get Cousins,
I’m sure Sacto would require McGee to be a part of the deal. Why would they trade a potential franchise Center without getting one back? I remember McGee had to be part of the deal to get Kanter in last year’s draft, this situation is no different. There’s no way we can get away with Cousins for Blatche + extras, JaVale would have to be the centerpiece of the trade. Personally, I would do it because as much of a headcase Cousins seems to be, he still has 10x the basketball IQ as Javale and IMO will ultimately be a better player.
"Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesely" - Jan Vesely
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 2, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cousins for : Booker and Seraphin
Win- win for everyone.
Dray will not be traded because why would Sac-town want another headache. Simply untradeable.
by jmpalomo on Jan 2, 2012 3:18 PM EST via Android app reply actions
is posting this link allowed??
http://www.hoopsworld.com/source-cousins-needs-to-change
anywho reading what people say about him makes me think he really really really needs
Counseling. or a shrink - not trying to be funny. Mental illness is real and Cousins is not right in the head.
So if he worked on his issues with a professional then I would love to have him in a Wizards jersey.
Hes very capable and has great bball instinct and skill.
I’d trade Blatche, Crawford, 2nd rounder and thats it!!! Anyone else on our team that they would want we can’t afford to give up.
truly damning stuff if his teamates are to be believed
The Kings disciplined Cousins several times for behavioral issues, and Cousins had run-ins with Sacramento coaches, including (Paul) Westphal, former assistants Truck Robinson and Mario Elie, and strength-and-conditioning coach Daniel Shapiro. Cousins was also was suspended after a locker-room altercation with teammate Donte Greene last season after Greene didn’t pass him the ball for a potential game-winning shot in a loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder. At the time, Greene called Cousins "spoiled," one source said, a reference to the franchise’s coddling of its young center.
"He’s selfish," one source close to the team said of Cousins. "He’s always angry or clowning. He needs to change. The Kings have been great about covering things up for him, and his agent has been protecting him.
"He’s always miserable. He acts like he’s entitled."
Some players are disillusioned with the constant drain of Cousins’ tantrums, sulking and absence of professionalism. "He’s a bully, and they let him get away with it," one source said. "No one wants to deal with the guy."
After a YEARLONG suspension and heaps of anger management work.
And he is now named Metta World Peace.
You want the second coming of that (pre-anger-management) on your team?
by MR on Jan 2, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think Artest is CRAZY. And angry
Cousins is immature. And angry
Cousins is also a big time talent
Artest was Defensive player of the year twice?
I think he qualifies as a talent as well…especially in his younger days..
I'd give the Kings
up to 2 players + a second rounder… we’re taking on a headache for them and what they’re getting from us is better than the production they’re getting from him sitting at home.
We should cross our fingers and pray to the basketball gods...
that Phil Jackson has sympathy upon us and decides to be Washington’s basketball messiah
+1000
Either him or sam
by no more kwame's in dc on Jan 2, 2012 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just a thought
But didn’t Melo have character issues. the fight in the garden, him and Karl were bumping heads, and the excessive nightclubbing with A.I. oh and after all of that he forced his hand out of denver, so what’s the problem with a big with talent wanting to win in our organization plus nobody would want to come down the lane with a violent and athleticism presence(javale,cousins).
and he was more talented
not to say that DMC isn’t talented, but melo is next level
by Wizards Khalifa on Jan 2, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Currently we are a terrible team with some silly side issues.
Add Cousins and we instantly become a circus. Spinning around and around from incident to incident. One step up two steps back.
by MR on Jan 2, 2012 3:38 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Wow
I realize I’m an outsider now (thankfully – but I still care enough for you guys and your mental anguish to check in on the kids when playing), and as an outsider I’m not feeling the desperation that I know a start like this can bring on. (I am a fan of the Mariners, Seahawks, etc….)
But the thought of this actually made me cringe, in the worst way possible, for you guys. This is the epitome of a super high risk, high reward gamble, imo. I don’t think he’s an innately bad guy or anything, but I have a hard time imagining him working out in DC at this point in his maturity process, even with Wall around.
by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This
If anything, he goest to the Celtics or Spurs- good teams with the veterans and overall skill as an organization to handle him.
I could.
Plain and simple life’s been miserable since Kentucky for him and the main reason JOHN WALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!. No really this dude loves him some john wall and if he had the chance to play with wall I think he would keep his head in the game because he knows he would have somebody that can get him the ball not saying he wont blow up and pick up tech’s but he would put his best foot forward.
I think you have to add the probability of winning and losing into that
And I don’t think trading for him does much to up the short-term win quotient. Sure, life was fun at Kentucky – they only lost 3 times.
plus the rookie sophmore game
People wont take that into consideration but the sophmores really wanted to beat the star studded rookie class.
Anything in the all-star break gets very limited consideration as far as I'm concerned.
If you choose to focus on only the positive, yes, it sounds lovely. I don’t think it would go smoothly, I don’t think it’s a magic band-aid to win soon, and I don’t think John is so magical that he can keep Cousins’ ego and immaturity in check with the added frustrations of a losing team.
I’ve seen lots of problem players put their best foot forward, and very rarely have a seen it last. Even more rarely have I seen it last when the problem player in question was young and traded to a currently dysfunctional team without strong vets to step into the equation.
by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
True indeed.
But you are forgetting Melo had character issues too and look how he turned out I think most young players who go into the league have a hard time with losing thats why you have a lot of mental lapses and if somehow we could pair two top five lottery pick talents together we could atleats get a 7th or 8th spot in the East while we are still rebuilding and no Mcgee cannot be apart of a trade thats why you would take on salary as well. To take a problem off their hands as well as a salary dump to help them with their rebuild that way everybody gets what they want.
Melo did not have the character issues Cousins appears to have
Nor did Denver lose like Washington is losing, and it had some really solid vets there.
But like I said, I’m an outsider now. Were this any other team in the Wizards position, I’d hope they took the shot for the sheer selfish interest of watching to see if it implodes. Only my lingering fondness for the Bullets Forever crowd makes me cringe at the thought, because I want to see this team go someplace positive for all of you – that is how strong my gut reaction against this working is.
If you get Cousins, and if it works out positively, I’d quite happily eat crow at the team’s success.
by wjb1492 on Jan 2, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have yet to see one logical package we can offer Sacramento...
Why would the Kings want another headcase (albeit not to the same extent as Cousins) in Blatche? Why would they want Crawford when they already have a plethora of guards?
Rockets tried trading up to the 4th pick in order to get Cousins back in 2010, I could definitely see them going after him. Let;s not forget, Daryl Morey and Geoff Petrie are very familiar with eachother, after all, Morey did get Kevin Martin from the Kings for a backup PF…
http://twitter.com/Above_Legit
In all honesty, it would take McGee to get Cousins. There's no getting around it.
"Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesely" - Jan Vesely
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 2, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d do it in an instant. McGee is going to get paid a TON next year, and even though he’s improving, he won’t be worth it. Cuz is under a cheap contract, and I think no one questions that he has a HIGH BBALL IQ. He may have emotional issues, but he also has what it takes to play smart on the court. A straight up trade – and we keep our picks, the next draft being a historic one, assuring ourselves of another excellent player. I think it would be worth the risk.
no way our front office takes that risk
ted would veto any trade involving mcgee, and i don’t think ernie would be willing to take that risk anyways. They’ve been preaching patience and rewarding home grown players that improve.
by FTT on Jan 2, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Look, the angle on this thing is: if we’re going to blow a close to $11M wad on McGee next year (which is what we’ll have to do), why give it to him when we’ll still have to wait on him to figure out how to play lockdown defense? He may never get past his glaring defensive lapses, as athletically impressive as he is. Instead, take DMC on a cheap contract as insurance, and if it doesn’t work out, save that $11M for a center who can actually play smart. This is called “handicapping your risk.”
yea ok, but i really think dmc and mcgee are the perfect match though. mcgee isn’t a banger or particularly good rebounder, and counsins isn’t a shot blocker.
i’d give 2012 pick + blatche for dmc + _ . Why would sac turn that down? They’ll get a top 8 pick from us in a top tier draft. Makes its very easy to swallow trading away a talent like dmc.
then use our 2nd rounders to get back in to the 1st this year — hopefully the lottery, but i’d be happy with anything below 20.
by FTT on Jan 2, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ted's influence
Everyone is forgetting Ted’s influence on this team and the fact at the vessely conference Ted specifically said he wants HARD BANGERS built around wall and sorry blatche but blatche is no banger. Also Ted is involved in his young players lives look how he sat down with wall and talked to him about the rebuild or gil for that matter to see where his head was at. Not to mention Wall loves it here and ownership, so you know cousins hears about this stuff when they talk.
I question Cousins bball iq all day long
he’s probably one of the least effecient Big in the league so far…clearly he is doing something wrong
by DCrez on Jan 2, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i cant get past his awful FG%
to me that’s a huge disconnect between what we want him to be and what he really is….for all we know the source of his tension with Westphal is that coach wants him to bang but he loves to pop
Yes, he struggle's with shot selection but read this (from his rookie yr.)
Meanwhile, his field goal percentage at the rim has remained a strong 64 percent, and Cousins attempts a robust 6.5 free throws per 36 minutes. Importantly, there are NBA-quality facets to Cousins’ game. He just needs to go to them with more regularity.
His 11 percent offensive rebound rate and 25 percent defensive rebound rate should be cited here as well. Siphoning his used possessions to areas of the floor where he can be more productive will be an important part of Cousins’ development, and it is something that will come with time and coaching
- Rohan Cruyff SNB Nation
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
His FG% will improve. Especially if he plays with a true PG like Wall.
I’m a big Tyreke fan…but ’Reke is a ballhog.
A young knucklehead
with significant character concerns. [SMH] just what this team needs. Thanks but no thanks — DMC can stay in Cali or go elsewhere.
by Uknowit2309 on Jan 2, 2012 5:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe a Sactown salary dump?
They have 15 mi tied up with Salmons and Outlaw. But they have Tyreke and Thornton starting. What about -
Salmon, Outlaw, Cousins for Lewis & Vesely. Lewis allows them to shave a couple of years off their commitment to Salmon & Outlaw plus gives them a young F prospect.
I’m assuming they wouldn’t want Blatche. At 6.5m for 4 years he’s untradeable right now.
Sac doesn't need a salary dump
They struggled to hit the floor as is
by Wizards Khalifa on Jan 2, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
As far as throwing Vesely into the trade without having seen him play
I think it’s an interesting idea that basically boils down to one question: Will seeing him play increase or decrease his value? Or in other words, is he better or worse than we expect? Of course this is very difficult to answer for us. BUT if we think that he is worse than generally thought, and that his value is higher right now (before anyone has seen him) than it will be after he has played some games (and possibly disappointed) then its wise to trade him. However it is just as likely that he will impress, in which case it will be a huge mistake. That is the nucleus of the Vesely-Question.
What is wrong with Ves anyway?
Will he play tonight? If not, how come? Seems there isnt much info on his situation
haha DCrez you keep asking this question and no one answers it. I wanna know too. It's seems very strange to me
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'd consider McGee for Cousins, straight up
I don’t think McGee’s trade value will ever be higher than it is right now. He’s in a contract year and he has us by the nuts. The problem for us is that we are likely going to have to give him a big contract when we are years away from competing.
Roll the dice. McGee for Cousins straight up. Cousins has three more years on his contract. Get another piece in the lottery, perhaps a young guard like Lamb to replace Nick Young who isn’t sticking around.
by edubz on Jan 2, 2012 6:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
btw, I should add
that I think trying to use McGee in a trade for Howard is a pipe dream. Cousins is young, big, likes DC, and has history with Wall. Who else WANTS to come to DC?
by edubz on Jan 2, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How about this
McGree for Cousins straight up but you have to take Blatche as well. We’ll take back one of your bad contracts in return – Garcia.
Salaries work: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6upnkqm
by edubz on Jan 2, 2012 6:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Or this
C/PF for C/PF
McGee/Blatche for Cousins/Thompson: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6upnkqm
We don’t take any bad contracts back.
by edubz on Jan 2, 2012 6:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like your line of thought here
The Kings really have to get something back. Blatche Seraphin and a protected pick are not going to cut it.
Vesely is the #6 pick this year, that’s value. McGee has value as one of the up and coming young centers in the league and young players like Booker and Crawford are sweeteners.
Blatche is a joke around the league and his contract makes him a long term joke at that. No way would the Kings want to take on him, plus they lost their CENTER. They have Randolph and Hickson at the 4 (both better than Blatche) and also have Chuck Hayes.
If I was the Kings I’d do Vesely, McGee and Lewis for Cousins and Salmons. It gives them a Center and a SF, both young and low usage (remember, they have Reke and Thorton) plus Rashard for Salmons gives them cap flexibility next year.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 2, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Dutch is right
re Blatche’s undesirability and Sacto’s need to replace DMC at center. On a basketball basis only, DMC-for-JVM would be a logical foundation for a trade. As for the extras, I’d like to see Vesely develop before shipping him out.
Don’t know much about Salmons’s personality but a vet with scoring ability might be too valuable to throw in, especially on a bottom-feeding team like the Kings (Wiz fit that description too of course).
I dont think you give up JVM after finally showing life of making strides
Cousins for Vesly straight up is fair if something could not be worked out with AB and company. No 1st round draft picks. Cousins went #4 and Vesly #6. Thats only a two slot drop for a player with known problems demanding a trade in a semi fire sale. If we can hold out until the trade deadline, that would be even better because by then, we will have locked up a lottery pick probably. Cousins improves us day 1.
If they dont bite…re-try at trade deadline. I know people think wall needs help on the perimeter, vesly has not played, etc….this team can not defend nor rebound and until that changes, we arent going to win consistently either. Cousins gives us a shot at that. And can paired with a Harrison Barnes or top SG prospect with our lottery pick this summer.
…and that gives us a legitimate young team worth developing
by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
that would be john wall, nick young, harrison barnes, demarcus cousins, and JVM starting and singleton as the 6th man off the bench…plus booker crawford (whom i dislike but hope am wrong about and mack filling out the rotation)
by les boulez bomber on Jan 3, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with not giving up McGee. I just approached it from Kings perspective
It takes 2 to tango you know.
Vesely then has to be the center piece.A package around him can include anybody and everything except Wall, McGee and the 2012 pick.
In the end of the day Cousins is a 6’11/260 rarity. A double-double guy already and still so much more to learn, so much more improvement to be made. We are talking about rare special talent, a Shaq type talent who could become a 22/14 guy in his prime.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 3, 2012 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
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