Poll: The Divisiveness of the JaVale McGee Dunk
Obviously, the JaVale McGee dunk has begun to overshadow everything else surrounding the Washington Wizards. Opinion, both within the team as well as the community of Washington Wizards fans appears to be divided as to whether the dunk was appropriate within the context of the game. Mike broke down the schism in depth at SBNDC, and suffice to say, its not a pretty situation
I have my own opinion on this which I shall go into depth on later, but the short version is that I think the dunk represents troubling issues that are effecting the team which go far beyond a single action. In no way should this be read as condemning JaVale McGee as a "guilty" party, but if the team has reached a point where a player feels that he can actively freelance to that level, then something is rotten in the state of D.C.
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The dunk itself was fine
Now the person doing the dunk has a reputation as being a “me first” player. That’s why this isn’t going over well for many people. I see an incredibly athletically gifted 7 footer who would rather practice for the dunk competition than working on boxing out and pick and roll defense. Just completely ridiculous seeing Dalembert look like Hakeem Olajuwon out there against us.
by satchow on Jan 17, 2012 10:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think Dalembert did a lot of his damage against Blatche
Not all of it, certainly, but in any case he was playing way above his usual level. I’m not sure the defense was that terrible — if that was the first time I’d ever seen him I’d swear he was a top 5 center in the league.
For what it’s worth, I don’t care much about this as long as Javale is actually working hard, rebounding, and improving on defense. Last year I probably would have been more irritated, but this year if I’m the coach I give him a hard time about it, but not any real consequences. McGee has been playing a lot smarter this year — one instance of excess showboating doesn’t change that.
I think we have two people in the wrong...
You can’t punish the team for the behavior of one person. Pulling him immediately is fine if you think it is unacceptable. Keeping him out in a blowout is fine. But here is what Flip did once we made our run.
- Kept a player hurt in the game, who was clearly fatigued, risking further injury.
- Clearly limited the team potential to make a comeback
- Further alienated a potential core piece
- Created tension between players, some of who may now go home thinking, "we could have won if Javale didn’t make that mistake", potentially creating resentment.
Reprimand him. Fine him. Make him do extra sprints in practice. But that was not the type of play that is egregious enough to punish the entire team.
On Javale, as I said in the game thread…
McGee got a highlight and energy which I think was the goal, but I suspect it will be the hook to almost every article about the game….and not in a good way…unless we find a way to come back…It will likely override Wall’s comeback game…
Poor decision by Javale and poor decision by Flip.
We are dysfunctional.
(cut and pasted from prior thread)
by DavidDunn on Jan 17, 2012 10:57 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Fine McGee for scoring 2 points? Haha. That's a joke, jokester.
by jmpalomo on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am pretty sure I didn't say fine him for scoring two points.
The fine would be based on breaking a team rule, if there is one, against showboating or behaving in a manner defined as unacceptable to the team.
Or y'know for his multiple defensive breakdowns
whichever floats your boat
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 17, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
just as long as he's the only guy fined, since no one else screws up
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are correct
Accountability for all parties has never been a strength of this team.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Yes, I was on the prior thread with a similar comment...
Dumb and dumber. Coach should have handled it better. He is supposed to be the adult here. Instead, he made some coaching decisions that probably further alienated his players and most certainly led to the loss of what was otherwise a winnable game.
I cannot wait until he is history… I mean his record is less than Ed Tapscott, or Leonard Hamilton, neither of whom had any NBA coaching experience whatsoever!
by khrabb on Jan 17, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think I should add...this quote
Saunders went with rookie Jan Vesely instead and got some quality production. McGee said he didn’t have a problem sitting. "I was thinking, ‘Keep me out,’ " McGee said. "We were playing well. So let’s get this win, the only way we can. There was a lot of energy out there. I felt we were going hard, but obviously, [the Rockets] were going a little harder than us."
Do we believe this? Did Javale think Jan Vesely provided a better option than him? I am not sure either answer is helpful. So much drama from 2 poor decisions…
Voted Don't really care
There are so many things wrong with this team, a show boat dunk shouldn’t be the forefront of concern.
by HIBACHI GOLD on Jan 17, 2012 11:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
IF you don't see....
that doing the dunk means more than 2 points you wouldn’t care
by notimpressed on Jan 17, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Ok...but I also see
Wall’s turnovers, Crawford’s shot selection, Booker & Singleton offensive game (lack thereof), Andray doing Andray things, Shard’s uselessness, NY’s shooting percentage, etc, etc, etc
My point being that if I am going to spend my energy getting upset about the Wizards, there are bigger issues.
by HIBACHI GOLD on Jan 17, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Who cares!
If he had stopped to test out his new hook shot, then you have an issues. If he had missed it, then it would have been an issues. But the score was close and it was a hype play just as he said. The problem is that flipped yanked him and mad a big deal about it instead of letting the energy flow.
As an aside: I don’t think Flip wants to be coaching this team. He came he to coach stars to the playoffs and beyond, then brought some of his own “sharp shooters” to augment, but Arenas caused the whole team to implode and now he is stuck rebuilding. I think it is effecting his attitude toward the team. Guys do highlight dunks around the league on fast breaks all of the time and it’s no problem. Flip overreacted to overcompensate for the fact that he could really care less about coaching this team.
Redskins @RGIII - 2012
by Copious 1 on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 AM EST reply actions 9 recs
No more +1
Use the ex button
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 17, 2012 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or rec button
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 17, 2012 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
To find it by the way
Go to “actions” below your comment
by Mike Prada on Jan 17, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There's no button on mobile, can't say for the app
So sometimes that’s all you can do.
by oakhillswag on Jan 17, 2012 11:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can others find out who rec the comment w/o replying +1
Is that the reason for doing this?
has pluses and minuses
I think SBNation started based on Scoop, which inherently had the ability to show recs…so I think it may be straight forward.
BUT…it also tends to create some tribal behavior…I don’t know that being able to see who rec the comment is helpful. Flags on the other hand…one could argue that it enforces accountability. But I don’t see many flags, so it is a moot point.
It also cuts down on having to skim through 80000
+1 comments
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I think that's where the +1 comes from, to acknowledge you rec'd the post.
But the problem becomes people +1, without even rec’ing.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
That makes sense
But if you rec the post and want to say so, it’d be better to add a little more to your comment so it’s not just a +1 that clogs up the thread.
by Mike Prada on Jan 17, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was Javale being Javale
It’s why he may make an all-star team some day with fan votes. It’s also why he may never be a core part of a championship team.
I thought it was inappropriate because it increased the level of difficulty of a gimme shot in a close game, but I’m not up in arms about it. It just makes me think he may never be the type of player I’d like him to be.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 17, 2012 11:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
there were no fansites back then, but i can imagine how Webber would have been perceived.
plenty of folks hated him for his offcourt transgressions and wanted him gone, the other half of the fanabse was like “hold up, this kid is young and talented, let’s not do something dumb”
guess we’ll see if there is any institutional memory within the organization
I don't care what Javale does off the court
I don’t care about eating cinnamon. C-Web was a stud on the court and Abe didn’t like his off-court behavior. That’s the exact opposite of Javale here. I think he’s a bit of a knucklehead, but a good guy. I just don’t think he’s a great team player. He’s better than he was, but he keeps doing infuriating stuff.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 17, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny thing about fan votes for the All-Star game
is that they determine the starters. JaVale will never be big enough for the fans to name him a starter. Reserves are picked by coaches. So the way for him to make the All-Star game is to become a smarter player and focus less on things like highlight dunks and twitter All-Star campaigns. Ironic.
How come no is talking about the consecutive tech's that Dray/John got for whining about no-calls?
How unprofessional is that? Two players in a row getting them, did Flip even mention it? What about the team reaching a point where two players feel just fine about costing the team actual points like that? Is that “meat and potatoes” basketball?
Looking back at the game, those 2 techs seemed like more of a downward turning point than the play where Javale actually scored 2 points and hyped the home crowd…but for some reason the reaction is as if Mcgee had missed that dunk and we’d lost by one point.
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 11:17 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
bad SBNation....
anyway…it is why I feel like pulling him was an overreaction, especially when other plays detrimental to the team did not have the same result.
because McGee stole the highlight today.
Dray / John are thanking McGee for this.
This team is fragile.
Because
Javale had his mental mistakes as well as the dunk where he complained about a no call and did not get back on D and let his opponent get a easy layup which pissed the whole team off, and to be truthfully honest I did not see anyone fired up after that dunk not even in the stands. I mean he may have got a few cheers, but it wasn’t nothing like a epic Blake put back slam dunk where everybody was out of their seats afterwards.
by p.robb87 on Jan 17, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Boring! Boring! We want boring basketball. JaVale keep on keeping on baby!
Don’t listen to all these boring … fans. They want you to be a nice little ball and just put the basketball in the round hoop thing.
Keep on Dunking the dang ball JaVale!
Alley oop to yourself all game long, as long as it goes in.
WHICH IT DID!
by jmpalomo on Jan 17, 2012 11:24 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
In defense of McGee's dunk
I was going to write a fanpost on this, but, you know, I have a job…. So this will be short.
I look at the incident with these starting points:
- The coaches have (rightly) been on McGee to cut out the flamboyant plays, and have been greatly frustrated in prior years on this point.
- McGee has cut back on that stuff to a surprising extent this season.
- I feel a little foolish saying this, but I think it is true: McGee is one of the best dunkers in the history of the NBA. It’s hard to get my mind around the concept that one of OUR knuckleheads could be one of the greatest of all time at something other than stupidity.
My take is this: If any other player had pulled that move, it would have been a risky, showboating play. But I think for McGee, that was an easy dunk. It wasn’t risky. Heck, I think every shot Jordan Crawford has taken this season has been riskier than that dunk.
I think the coaching staff (and players) reacted the way they did not because the dunk was a risky, showboating play, but because of (1) McGee’s history of showboating/lack of substance; and (2) the team is on edge because of its poor record. They reacted negatively out of habit with JaVale and because of the team’s current mindset.
In the end, I think I can best make my point by superimposing the Wizards coaching staffs’ reaction to one of the greatest dunks of all time:
“Julius Erving retrieved the loose ball, dribbled up the left sideline, rocked the ball back like a baby, and dunked it over Michael Cooper in a play that will forever be known as Dr. J’s ‘Rock the Cradle’ dunk. Coach Flip Saunders appeared agitated as he placed his hands on his waist and grimaced. Assistant Randy Wittman looked up, put his hand on his head and rolled his eyes. ‘I told him that’s unacceptable,’ Saunders said about Erving’s highlight dunk. ‘I mean, maybe I’m too old-school, but save that for the all-star game. Not during the game.’"
by disgrunted on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Maybe a more appropriate comparison than Javal and Dr. J
woud be Javale and Homer Simpson
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 17, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As I said in the game thread....
at least when he showboated, it was about as high percentage of a play as one can get. A 360,, windmill, or an east bay is far more risky than what he did, by orders of magnitude.
But at this point, I am of the opinion that a dynamic play is used to create a better opportunity or win you have a material lead. It just seems like bad timing, and unnecessary for this team at this point. It is more of a context thing for me.
This
I missed the game so I can’t speak to the in-game dynamics. But watching the replay clip… this doesn’t seem equivalent to his free-throw-line dunk from last year. Javale wasn’t gonna miss this thing. He glammed up the dunk a little to try to energize himself and the crowd.
Players do that all the time. Usually it’s viewed positively – helps the team get on a run, forces the opponents to call a timeout. It usually isn’t off-the-backboard, but for most players that isn’t an easy dunk.
It’s only a problem because of his conflict with Saunders — it leads to him getting pulled, which hurts the team and kills momentum.
How about this comparison?
http://wn.com/Tracy_McGrady_passes_off_the_backboard_to_himself_and_dunks
Nobody complained when Tracy did it in a game. While it’s not exactly the same thing, it’s showboating nonetheless.
dr j scored on somebody. memorable dunks tend to happen that way
mcgee’s dunk really wasn’t that interesting as far as dunks go, nor did it allow him to bypass a defender on the way to the rim. placing what mcgee did alongside one of the greatest dunks ever by doctor j? it’s really not a good comparison. this seems more like slandering the coaching staff than anything.
hopefully i will never speak of mcgee’s silly dunk again. i’m very tired of it.
mcgee isn’t new school. he’s more like no school.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 17, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the only reason people are upset is bc it was javale and the wizards are 1-10
if lebron or kobe did that we’d talk about how awesome it was. i remember years ago when either mcgrady or vince carter did an off the backboard alleyoop dunk in traffic in the middle of the game and people thought it was awesome
That leads to the question
should a 1-10 team concentrate on their dunking prowess, or getting wins?
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Jan 17, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dunking prowess because your not winning anyway.
You might as well go for the entertainment value.
by jmpalomo on Jan 17, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Its not an either/or situation
The team was 1-11 before he did that dunk. So obviously “concentrating on winning” instead of dunking didn’t do much. We are clearly a bad team. If you can have a little fun on a high percentage fast break shot, why not?
by SkinsWizStangs on Jan 17, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
They aren’t remotely mutually exclusive.
It’s professional sports, we LITERALLY pay for entertainment. Who cares. It was a low degree of difficulty for Javale. He could do that dunk with his eyes closed (now THERE’S an idea!)
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Jan 17, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
"something is rotten in the state of D.C."
That’s the genesis of the reaction to McGee’s dunk. Unless you realize that, you let Flip continue to use passive/aggressiveness to try to contain Javale’s exuberance.
But if Flip hates this stuff so much, why be passive about it? Why not just fine him? Or bench him for 10 games? Or trade him? The answer is because that won’t solve the underlying problem.
The Wizard’s need big changes, starting at the top. Until then, we’re just tinkering with a losing formula.
According to Flip everyone has to be miserable 24/7
hide under their beds eating $5 footlongs and despising their lives because the team sucks. Sounds like an awesome work environment.
The point is that the Wizards were actually in the game at that point
why make the play harder than it should be? Save the super awesome dunk for when we are up or down by 20.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
"those two techs killed us, that's just unacceptable behavior from our players and has to stop"
would it really be that hard to throw that in as well?
“dray needs to do a better job on dalembert”
is it so tough to say?
Flip sucks because he wants to be hard like Pops and some others, but he doesnt have the spine to actually control ALL the players on a team. He needs guys “on his side” which only serves to further divide the squad. That Mo Evans tidbit from his time in Detroit is truly noteworthy.
Pops would have have ripped half the team a new one yesterday and the WHOLE team would respect him for it and fall in line. Flip’s gotta go
This is true.
I wondered when we signed him would he get respect out of the wiz locker room something he did not get in Detroit.
this is walking the thin line
between entertainer and athlete. He entertained the whole world with one play. He disrespected the game and die-hards with the same play. Maybe he should try trapeeze
And he made the Wizards more of a national laughingstock.
If that’s what floats your boat, yeah, he was entertaining.
Flip made the Wizards a laughingstock over this by harping on it so much after the game.
that’s why it got so much national coverage
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly, if Flip doesn't say anything after we aren't talking about it to this level
It seems like Flip is personally trying to bring embarrassment to McGee and this franchise. This would’ve been just a flamboyant play in a meaningless game between the Rockets and the Wizards
by SkinsWizStangs on Jan 17, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
You're falling all over yourself trying to defend Javale
Might as well blame the media, because Flip was responding to their questions.
Saunder’s Presser – This isn’t harping
No defense needed
Javale was simply following Flip’s instructions. You will recall Flip told him not to dribble and dunk while running down the court. The only way he could avoid dribbling was to put it up on the backboard.
by Izman on Jan 17, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Wow
This is an issue? Man, the media coverage of the Wizards is just like Congress! Focus on the shit that doesn’t matter, ignore the stuff that does. If we’re going to get upset about this, we are going out of our way to look for things to bitch about.
I have absolutely no problem with what JaVale did as long as he made the dunk. That’s what counts. As long as it wasn’t that idiotic free throw line dunk attempt he tried in Sacramento last year, I’m fine with it. It doesn’t really concern me.
Now can we start discussing important stuff like how Flip needs to entirely retool this offense, and teach these kids how to play real defense? especially defending the Pick and Roll?
by Marine4Life51 on Jan 17, 2012 11:57 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
I think it's pretty irrelevant
It was a play that ended successfully. No doubt its going to be shown and “debated” on the sports shouting shows today and one of the debaters will include some nasty, somewhat personal criticism of McGee and probably Blatche as well. For some reason, this Wizards team has move past being ridiculed for their record to being hated for their record. It was just 2 years ago that New Jersey started the season 0-18 but that didn’t inspire half of the invective aimed at the Wizards this year.
I’d rather have McGee’s successful showboat dunk than Singleton’s botched dunk of last week.
by hotplate on Jan 17, 2012 12:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
it's tough to gripe when the Wiz score
since they find it so hard to get the ball in the hoop most of the time. But JaVale certainly seemed to fire up the Rockets and deflate the Wizzies on that one. Still think the proper response to this is cutting Dray and finding a scrappy D-Leaguer to you know, play defense, move the ball, and chase guys around. The Wizards inability to find talent – when the rest of the league seems to be able to bring guys in who can sort of play – is really spectacular.
A fine or suspension is too far.
I think Javale should be starting tomorrow night. Even to take his starting spot is too much punishment. I don’t want to risk totally losing a player, mentally, over this.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 12:12 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
And who the hell
would start in his place?
Dray? Vesely? Seraphin?
With Turiaf injured, we’re so thin at center it hurts.
Is the reason we talked about this the fact that he missed the free-throw line dunk in a similar situation last season?
I don’t think it was that risky a play. Yes was showboating, but this is only a bad thing if it spreads to the rest of his game and start causing really bad errors. He knows its not really on, so he’s not going to do it that often.
The ball went in for pete’s sake, give him a break unless he tries to do it with 3 guys on him.
I still can't believe people are actually getting their panties in a wad over this
Who cares?
HE FINISHED THE PLAY! That’s more than we can ask for on most possessions!
by Marine4Life51 on Jan 17, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I don't have any problem with the dunk. If he did it in traffic with other players around then it would be one thing.
But doing it when there was no one around who could mess it up is just fun to watch. A lot of the best dunkers (lebron, MJ, Kobe) like to do fun things on break away dunks on occasion (like around the back, between the legs, tomahawk dunks, etc) so I don’t understand why anyone is upset about this. It’s a GAME, have FUN with it. As long as he’s not doing this kind of stuff near defenders I’m cool with it and encourage it.
by tonedru on Jan 17, 2012 12:31 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I am done with this subject.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
Here's what the pro-dunk camp seems to be glossing over
While lots of great players did fancy dunks, they were natural manifestations of what was going on in the game. It was part of the game. Or their team were winning and showboating is more acceptable. That’s not what Mcgee does. His dunks are all about him, and unrelated to the team, the game, or any sense of reason.
Are people forgetting his FT line miss dunk? Or how embarrassed we were at his triple-double attempt when we were down twenty against Chicago? He earned a technical for hanging on the rim. We were down twenty. This isn’t his first offense. It’s his third.
McGee showboats when his team is down. He creates risks, playing for a highlight over making a basket. That’s the truth of his current game.
You don’t have to like Flip Saunder to realize that he’s right. As for people who want more fun in their games, I’d prefer a little less losing. That’d be fun for me. If you want to claim McGee is a top 5 center, you have to wonder why he’s almost never had a winning record as a pro. It’s his head. Fans encouraging him to stay immature only makes it worse.
by GJennings on Jan 17, 2012 12:45 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Sean and Mike
Could you guys put a site rules section on the main page for easy access? That way you could just refer people to that so you guys don’t have to deal with so many individual questions. Maybe a FAQ would be helpful, just a thought.
This is coming up in a day or so
Tweaking the old rules a little bit and adding some clarification.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I'm done too with this subject
I have plenty of opinions but who really cares. Javale is still a young player with bad habits but I think he’s shown continuous improvement. Let it go and move forward.
JaVale's dunk is the on-court version of Jordan Crawford's "better than Michael Jordan" quote
Superstars get a pass on stuff like that. Mediocre players don’t. And as long as our record is crap, all of our players are mediocre or worse.
by yop32 on Jan 17, 2012 1:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Hypocritical Coaching Staff
Didn’t Flip say just a few weeks ago that he was going to fine Wall if he doesn’t start smiling in games?
Now McGee does something fun, which also happened to help his team (with two points), and entertain the fans, and Flip complains. He needs to make up his mind.
So if McGee had just dunked normally, but thrwon it down really really hard, would that have been better? Because htat’s also showboating, and arguably even more difficult (players miss emphatic dunks all the time because it hits the back of the rim).
by segastyle on Jan 17, 2012 1:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
You will recall
Wall posterized someone last week and then taunted him — and got a technical foul. Flip said nothing. Getting a technical for taunting is worse than what McGee did.
Yea, this is another things that really bothers me.
Why didn’t flip say anything about John staring down his opponent when he dunked on him?
Is John immune to criticism, Flip?
I’d love for a member of the media to basically ask….“Flip, you seem to always be very critical of JaVale even on nights that he plays very well, in particular this season he’s having is pretty impressive…we know about the dunk, but several games ago, John Wall dunked over his opponent, then stared him down…how come you never had any negative comments about that?”
Flip – “Well, you know, John’s a competitor, that’s just how he gets going, he feeds off of energy….BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH FAVORITISM.”
That’s probably, honestly, what Flip would say.
Well
That was a bullshit technical though.
Flip shouldn’t be calling that out because John didn’t do anything wrong.
by sierradave on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Correct me if I'm wrong
But I believe Flip had already been ejected from that game.
Bullets Forever: Waiting for the Fat Lady to sing since 2006. | @jakewhitacre
by Jake Whitacre on Jan 17, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I meant why didn't he look down upon something like that.
But looks at JaVale’s dunk as THE END TIMES.
It’s favoritism, and it’s not a good way to coach. Not publicly, to the media, at least.
Who cares?
There are much more pressing issues to be concerned about.
by jones-y on Jan 17, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
FLIP DID NOT YANK HIM FOR THE DUNK. FLIP DID NOT "GO OFF" ON MCGEE.
McGee played for a long stint after the dunk, through at least 3 stoppages that would have allowed for a substitution. He then came out for a breather and then went back in the game a few minutes later.
Flip was asked about the dunk twice during his post-game. He had a fairly bland, calm, non-emotional response in which he also praised McGee’s progress.
That’s it. You are all looking for drama that didn’t happen.
McGee took a near automatic shot and increased the degree of difficulty in order to showboat. Silly thing to do. Oh well. The coach displayed an appropriately small amount of disapproval. Now we move on.
by MR on Jan 17, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Agree ---- Move ON!
It was a 2 point field goal.
The Wizzies need all of those that they can get anyway they can get them.
Would Flip complained if J Wall did a 360 reverse slam in that situation????
By the way...reading the quotes from everyone...
It is clear Javale and Nick are on one side, Wall and Saunders on another with Dray….
I know it is reading some thing into this, but this is one of those seminal moments in my opinion. I suspect Javale and Nick are planning to move on and this just reinforces their resolve.
Everyone can make their own assessment of whether they like that or not, but it seems like their is a wall growing between the team. Good for ping pong balls, bad for morale.
It really is a moot point
Luckily for Javale, he made the dunk and got the two points regardless. If he had missed the dunk, or some other form of silliness happened, then it becomes an issue. I’m hoping that javale in the future would have better judgement when it comes to in-game play in regards to winning the game and not just trying to get on Sportscenter to that particular night.
My goodness....
This is why I feel like the media is so hilarious at times. They really do grasp for anything and everything to pile onto a “bad team”…seriously, anything they can get.
Remember when Tracy McGrady did this same exact thing?
Hasn’t Kobe Bryant done this in a game before?
Hasn’t Vince carter done something like this in a game before?
Actual regular season games?
So, is it just not ok because we’re a bad team? Because I feel like if any player besides JaVale had done this, no one would be ripping on him at all, or making such a huge issue out of this. This truly is the most overblown incident in DC sports in a long time. Talk about something that isn’t a big deal…at all….getting blown out of proportion to a huge extent.
It was SO frustrating listening to 106.7 The Fan earlier today, because you can tell, NO ONE who calls in are actual wizards fans, and the hosts of each show are absolutely not fans, nor do they actually keep up with the team…because callers and hosts alike today talked about JaVale McGee like he’s the same old JaVale.
Talking about things like:
“He’s made no progress as a player.”
“We need HARD WORKERS, not people like JaVale” – JaVale is one of the only players on our team who works very hard and wants to be GREAT, so this comment in particular frustrated the hell out of me.
“He’s seriously done nothing as far as working on his offensive game Mike” – Holden from the Mike Wise show…….and I think right about here is where I turned off my radio.
The callers, what they said…..it’s not even worth mentioning. Not people who actually watch wizards games, that’s for sure.
JaVale McGee is (arguably) our best player. So far, this season, he is absolutely our best player. I also think it’s hilarious our Flip has the nerve to complain about the dunk and mention “meat and potatoes”, and that he wished JaVale would focus more on that.
So has there been a lack of “meat and potatoes” play from JaVale all season long when he’s protected the rim all by himself? Or completely changed the momentum of games by his lonesome with a handful of plays?
It really, truly sucks that our team is so bad, because John Wall and JaVale McGee are too very, very special players who could easily be superstars. The sad thing is, I can tell that JaVale doesn’t like Flip saunders at all, and Flip doesn’t like JaVale…..so what happens in the end? Will Ernie side with JaVale or Flip?
I actually hope JaVale gets out of here, to another team, and just blows up like we ALL know he will. Good for him…he should go somewhere where the coaching staff appreciates what he brings to each and every game, and with better players around him, he’ll completely explode as a superstar player…hands down, he’s going to be a top 5 center.
So to hear all of these people complaining about him, and to KNOW that Flip doesn’t like McGee very much (he makes this all too obvious), isn’t great to know that we’re keeping a coach around, who happens to have us playing 1-12 ball, that ALSO LOVES to alienate our – at the least – 2nd best player on the team, and aside from John, the only player we’d be stupid to let go of?
Go ahead Flip.
Keep losing the team.
I really, really hope Flip Saunders isn’t coaching here next year. I know he’s a good coach, and very capable, but if it comes down to HIM, or JaVALE…? I’m taking JaVale 10 times out of 10.
by DCeee on Jan 17, 2012 1:56 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I guess
I’m in the minority, but I thought the dunk was a ridiculous display of immaturity. And, truthfully, I wasn’t even impressed with it. Yeah, he’s uber-athletic, AND seven feet tall. So he can throw it off the backboard to himself and dunk it…ALL BY HIMSELF. Know what was more impressive? When Dalembert dunked it over him on the follow. And when Parsons dunked it over him. Some people said “at least he didn’t do it in traffic.” I actually would’ve been more impressed if he had. Dunks don’t do much for me when they’re not in the flow of the game. And what’s the point in showing off when a journeyman center is having an All Star performance against you on the other end?
As for Flips’s reaction, I could care less. He’s already lost the team, and they’ve lost him. I would be OK with suspending Javale, if that was Flip’s last act as coach. Otherwise, time to move on.
And who knows, maybe this is a good thing. Javale wants to be on Sportcenter, well now he is, and they’re criticizing him. Maybe he’ll learn from that what he hasn’t learned from Flip.
Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
by CJHutch on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this..
smh to this fanbase that defends mcgee….it’s about changing the culture on this team, remember his effort on doing whatever it takes to get HIS triple double in a losing effort to the bulls or his free throw line failed dunk attempt against te kings who they they were losing to by 20….lol
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 17, 2012 2:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
look I love his talent but this team needs a culture change, I rather have someone here that is smart and less talented but thats me
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 17, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know we could trade him for a very high draft pick
But it just doesn’t make sense when, AT BEST, that draft pick ends up being as good as JaVale ultimately ends up being, and there’s a good chance that some of these high picks don’t even end up as good as JaVale is RIGHT NOW.
It just wouldn’t make sense for us to let him walk, which is why I think we may do it. This organization is seriously that stupid.
by DCeee on Jan 17, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that is such a load of bs
because it is so conveniently forgotten that Flip himself called like 4 plays in a row to get Mcgee the triple double
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
this is ridiculous mcgees dunk was sweet
vince carters done that before and no one made a fuss about it. anyway the si powerrankings guy said the wizards should be a run and gun team. i think we should propose a trade of flip saunders for mike d’antoni
ummmm we were LOSING the game..smh
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 17, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha! I thought McGee was closing the gap from 6 down to 4
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
shaking my head at those condemning Mcgee and making this about anything other than a simple act of exuberance
The idea that somehow this has wider spreading implications certifies to me that Flip is completely clueless when it comes to this team and hypercritical of the teams only inside presence and one of the best young centers in the league.
Culture change is determined by roster change the bottom line you can’t go inside this collective groups personality and labotomize it.
This is a team without veteran leadersip or leadership from a head coach who’s stature and ability to teach cultivates the right sorta mentality.
Mcgee is not a leader has never claimed to be just his 2nd year in the league as a starter and still developing as a player. He’s moldable clay he will bend to whatever cuture is established on the team the team has none so his immaturity at times is the way he expresses himself.
why can’t Flip reach him or anyone else simply because Mcgee see’s the dysfunction as a whole and laughs in the face of Flip trying to make an example of him but no one else.
Hard to take the coach serious when he allows Nick Young to play selfishly going on 3 years take shot after shot disregarding open teammates and not playing the right way.
Hard to take the coach serious when he allows Blache not compete on defense not even try, show up to the team every year out of shape and then claim leadership and preach unselfishness as he shoots 20 ft fadeaway jumpers. time after time.
so when Mgee see’s all this nonsense going on unrestrained by the coach he figures and rightly so that the coach is picking on him for every ill fated thing he does.
After all Mcgee has to be thinking he shows up in shape every year, he improves and works on his game every year adding different facets is the ONE PLAYER on the team who ACTUALLY is unselfish enough to DEFEND and REBOUND.
Has curtailed the coaches main pet peeve the dribbling up the court and now has to hear bs about him being a selfish player in a game where his clueless teammates only give him the ball for 7 shots not thinking an athletic 7 fter might actually be of some assistance in a game offensively. Funny how the Rockets thought Dalembert could help them.
Mcgee is averaging 12,10,3 shooting over 50% from the field when has no real plays drawn up for him on a team with no real defensive principals.
Flip makes a mountain out of THE DUNK to distract people from his terrible decision making as a coach to how pathetic this team is.
Its a good ploy by Flip. Make it about Mcgee try and sully his reputation when he’s one of the 2 quality nba players you have on the dreadful roster a player that Ernie Loves and a bunch of teams would gladly take right now.
Try this Flip try making the unselfish thing a real concept and bench the violaters not named Mcgee then reward the guys who are unselfish get the guys to understanding that Mcgee can be a valuable part of the offense impress upon Mcgee that sharing is caring and don’t worry when you kick it back out we will look for you again.
and then Mcgee and others might actually buy what the heck you are selling. Might not feel as Mo Evans put it entitled because they are gonna get big time irregardless how selfish they play.
it can’t be all hot air it has to have bite behind it for everyone.
So things like DUNKGATE can be things of the past. I think about Mcgee like I think about Vernon avis of local fame and Niners football he was called out and summariyly embarrassed by Singletary learned his lesson a new coach arrives with a posiive upbeat attitude and Davis kills himself for the coach taking over the game and making the winning plays.
Mcgee could be just like that in the right environment.
I would have never tried the dunk didn’t think it was a good idea by Mcgee just because it was a risky thing to do in a tight game but I have seen others do other things with flair in the course of the game Rubio threw a slick no look behind the back pass his team’s record is dreadful and they were losing the game was it criminal of him NO
Its just a play. except with the Wizards and their coach. Mcgee won’t attempt again.
by jazzy1 on Jan 17, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
flip said in the postgame it was as hard as he has seen Dray play in 2 years and that he was fully happy with his performance.
sometimes i think ernie is Machiavellian…last year hinrich was often not good at all but never, ever fail every postgame Flip would go on and on about how hinrich is so terrific and blah blah blah…lo and behold we get more for him than we expected. They spent all season pumping him up and then traded him.
Now they are dogging Mcgee so they can keep him and pumping up Dray up so someone takes him
I hope you are right.
I’m a Mcgee guy I think he’s improved he’s playing well and he is one fo the rare productive players we have on a good night or bad night Mcgee will get you 10,10 3 blks. Thats no matter how his shot is falling or whatever because of his activity. yet Flips shames him constantly for little things.
Mcgee needs to chill out and just play. don’t call for the ball, just defend and rebound and say nothing leave it alone.
Don’t provide the distraction that Flip uses in the media to take the attention away from him. Leonsis has bought into the stupidity let them have it just keep ballin and Flip will fall on his face.
John wall needs to be careful he needs to dance around things about Mcgee he’s been dreaful for large stretches of the season to be pontificating on his teammates actions because he finally had a great game is wrong. Get your guys back you play with your teammates not the coaches.
Leadership is accepted easier by guys who are very productive he needs to iron out his game before he makes comments about anyone else.
So that's JaVale's fault, right?
Who’s fault is it that we’re 1-12, WAAAAALL-E?
I can guarantee you, it isn’t JaVale’s.
It begins with “F” and ends with “lip”. JaVale has been the ONLY bright spot this year. Everyone else has been so inconsistent, Singleton looks like he’ll be great, booker hustles but it’s apparent that he is what he is, John has no help, EXCEPT for McGee, so it’s been hard to watch him underachieve (aside from last night).
I don’t know, it just irks me that we don’t play our best player in the last quarter of a game, when we actually had a chance to win.
When McGee got pulled and planted on the bench, he had 8 points, 10 rebounds, and 3 blocks. What would he have ended up with? What would the outcome of the game have been? We’ll never know, but it’s irritating, especially as a fan who loves a team that can’t BUY a win, that Flip sat him the rest of the game after a defensive lapse.
Pull him.
Sit him.
Talk to him.
Then get him back in there.
We could have won the game, and Flip, because of…what….because of pride? Because of his Ego? Because of some personal dis-like of JaVale?…….he basically threw in the towel, and said “You know what, I don’t care if you give us the best chance to win right now, you’re sitting this game.”
And that’s what makes me angry.
He isn’t coaching this team well. There’s no one that could argue that point otherwise; it’s as clear as day.
by DCeee on Jan 17, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No. It begins with Fli- and ends with -nfeld!!!
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Thís
We could have won the game, and Flip, because of…what….because of pride? Because of his Ego? Because of some personal dis-like of JaVale?…….he basically threw in the towel, and said "You know what, I don’t care if you give us the best chance to win right now, you’re sitting this game."
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
How is it flips fault…there is a time a place for showtime…losing the game and being 1-12 is not the nest time for" look at me"…….
EG built this team…flip can only work with these clowns, there is no right rotation with this team…
I like mcgee but he needs to understand where they are as a team..
he is garbage on pnr defense thats why he was sitting, its pick your poison with the players flip has
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 17, 2012 3:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sure WAAAAL-E
Flip surely was a great coach with the Pistons got them over the hump with tons of mature talent.
Flip surely was great with Minny, surely was great here with the Big 3 and surely is great now. He’s above reporach as a coach LOL
Mcgee is decent on pick and roll defense the guard never recovers yet thats his fault he erases the mistakes of every swinging door defender we have.
thats what a bigman should do thats Meat and potato things and mcgee is the league’s best shot blocker so he’s the lead Meat and potato guy.
last time i checked flip is not the out there setting screens, trying their best to get through screens, staying in front of a player on defense..it’s on the players to be professional
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 17, 2012 3:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's true and I don't disagree with you that McGee shouldn't have showboated. But do you agree with me that
Some players have longer leashes than others and none shorter thanmMcGee? McGee?
And do you agree with me that his doulble standard is not helping to establish a culture of accountability?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, like Jazzy said above....
You can’t pull McGee for getting burned on a pick and roll, and then let dray get beat by his defender.
and then get beat by his defender.
and then get beat by his defender.
and then shoot a fadeaway jumper off the front of the rim.
And then leave him in the game…..if Flip is going to coach this team successfully (I don’t think he can or will), he has to make ALL players accountable.
exactly
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not to attack anyone
But i can’t see how anyone who plays or enjoys the sport of basketball can be upset with his dunk. We all want our team to play the right way but at the end of the day JaVale had a fast break with nobody around and made a fairly routine play for someone with his elite athleticism. He scores and gets the home crowd and, more importantly, himself pumped.
Voted ’Don’t really care’ by the way.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
by qthaballa on Jan 17, 2012 7:36 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
How could you enjoy the dunk?
We’re 1-12
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Jan 18, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I was really sad to find myself agreeing with the PTI guys today
I really do hate it when that happens…
But – Flip needs to go, check. Too many starters on the team don’t get “it”, check.
Personally I liked the dunk
It seemed to excite the fans and I know it excited me watching. I see where the critics are coming from, but we have to remember that T-Mac, Vinsanity, and others have pulled this kind of stunt before. This team has MUCH bigger problems to worry about than a fancy dunk by our second best player.
Much ado about nothing...
I’m with the crowd who think it’s being blown out of proportion. Basketball on a certain level
is entertainment and when that play happened, I was entertained…I laughed out loud. I
never thought for a minute about whether he should not have done it or not! I happen to
think Mcgee is really coming along as a young player and maybe he should get a few more
post touches. Hold your head high, brother. You’re on your way!!
by Herb Harris on Jan 18, 2012 1:47 AM EST reply actions 2 recs

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