Rockets Vs. Wizards: Post-Game Quotes From Flip Saunders And More
by Mike Prada on Jan 16, 2012 6:33 PM EST
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PrintBy request (and a good idea): key quotes from each player and coach that we spoke to in the Washington Wizards' locker room following Monday's 114-106 loss to the Houston Rockets.
Note: for everything on JaVale McGee's backboard dunk and that fallout, click here. Not going to post the same quotes in two places.
FLIP SAUNDERS:
On why McGee didn't play in the fourth quarter: "We weren't playing well when he was on the floor, basically. He couldn't help us in pick and rolls. But as I told our guys, we have to get to the point where it doesn't matter what your stats are, it's what the team does. You look at Chicago. Who closes their games? A lot of times, it's their bench."
On all the losing: "You can say it really kills you to lose, but until it really kills you? For me, for 3-4 weeks, I've been on a steady diet of Subway, which is 20 minutes from my condo, and I bring it back up to my apartment. Because like I said, you don't feel good about yourself. As a team, that's how it has to be. It has to really hurt a lot.
ROGER MASON
On preaching team-first play: "It shouldn't be too hard when you look at our record. Playing selfishly hasn't gotten us very far, so I think that's encouraging to know that doing it the selfish way isn't going to win."
JORDAN CRAWFORD
On moral victories: "We keep putting ourselves in a hole, then we make this little comeback and everybody kind of feels happy with the little comeback. That's getting old."
ANDRAY BLATCHE
On trying to fix selfish play: "That was my mindset coming into the game when I got the ball. Just try to swing it. Hopefully the guys will see that and they want to do that."
MAURICE EVANS
On inconsistency: "We're the most self-inflicted team in the league right now. It's like the most penalized team in football. Once we clean those things up, we give ourselves a chance."
On playing as a team: "The young guys excuse isn't there. The way you establish yourself is by winning. That's universal. It's not by how many points you get on a losing team. It's not how many stats, how many rebounds. It's about winning and playing the right way. Things have to translate universally.
JOHN WALL
On hurting to lose: "I think people understand. When you lose, you can't do anything. You can't really go out in the city, and if you turn on ESPN to any TV show, they're always talking about you losing games. So it definitely hurts people. I think we just got to prove it hurts on the court, where every minute we're fighting."
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he still took some ridiculous shots
when he’s on the break, he’s taking the shot in the lane no matter what.
Dalembert abused whomever was guarding him
Plus, Blatche is a 4 and Dalembert is a 5, it was a mismatch anyway. The real onus is on Flip for not rotating Dray to another man or taking him out of the game.
by Uknowit2309 on Jan 16, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Poor JaVale
Oh wait, he’ll be making $12 million a year starting next season. Nevermind. Oh, and Blatche already makes $8 million. Sad.
Can someone explain Flip's Subway quote?
by oakhillswag on Jan 16, 2012 7:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think it's about embarassment
he’s not eating AT the Subway, he’s not eating out at nice restaurants where he can be seen
“I told him that’s unacceptable,” Saunders said. “Maybe I’m too old-school, but you see that and the [lobbying] for the All-Star Game, that right there is where we have to get to where we identify with meat and potato basketball. Playing hard, setting screens, playing the right way, and not highlight-type play. We’ve said this many times. We have some players that look for highlights instead of substance.”
Even if this is the right message, and it’s hard to disagree with it for the most part, he’s clearly not getting through to the players. Flip and Javale have been at odds forever and it shows. Flip’s losing (lost) the team — once the players are tuning out the coach, the writing is on the wall. That Ted hasn’t done a single thing about it is absolutely infuriating.
“To me, I don’t know. I think you’re supposed to have fun. If you’re having fun, you play well, you play better. I know that’s the type of person JaVale is,” Young said. “If he can’t be that occasionally, he might go back to the old ways. I see a change and he’s playing great, so I want to keep his head right and keep him on the same page.”
I agree with this too. We were playing far more freely at the end of last year, and it showed on the court and in the record column. Again, this team is chained to losing, disenchantment, disillusionment, whatever other ‘dis’ word you want to use.
I truly wonder if Flip’s privately acknowledged McGee’s improvement. I wonder what type of encouragement he’s giving him. It doesn’t seem like much, if any.
Regardless, this whole team needs a breath of fresh air. That will only come with firing Flip.
What the hell is Ted waiting for?
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 7:04 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
How is that Flip's fault?
Flip can’t “lose” Javale if he never had him. Javale would play that way under any coach. There might be reason enough to fire Flip, but that sure as hell isn’t one of them.
by Mr. E on Jan 16, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
How do you know that? "Javale would play that way under any coach"
Javale hasn’t had another coach as an NBA starter. He needs a coach who will nurture him, not continuously lambast him publicly via the media. He needs a coach who will encourage him, not chastise him at every available opportunity.
Again, McGee is a top-10 center. This year. He should be a foundational piece, while instead, he’s STILL Flip’s whipping boy. It’s another element of the coach-players dynamic that needs to change.
Of all the top-10 scoring centers, only Marc Gasol has less field goal attempts. He also shoots a much lower percentage than McGee. It’s mind-boggling why Javale doesn’t get more opportunities in the post, especially given the lack of any offensive firepower on this team.
It’s just another way that Flip is retarding McGee’s development.
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As an NBA starter? Way to change the target mid-thought. He would play that way because he’s always played that way, why would anyone think otherwise? Nurture would mean encouraging more clown-like behavior, how would he ever know it needs to change if he was surrounded by a yes man? And if he is a top 10 center (though that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion) maybe Flip’s style of coaching is working? Just maybe.
by Mr. E on Jan 16, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Saunders is developing McGee
Telling McGee not to showboat on the court midway through a contended game is part of his development. I see Saunders getting through to McGee. McGee is a professional basketball player and he should act like one on the court no matter the circumstances.
by hambonejackson on Jan 16, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
To me, it's not that he benches McGee and calls him out publicly...
That’s the issue. It’s that he doesn’t treat any other player the same way. Blatche was a dog today, and Flip kept him in — the way he always does.
by YellaFella on Jan 16, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So?
Does that mean that its bad or that you don’t know the reason?
by hambonejackson on Jan 16, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Saunders treats McGee differently
He is coaching McGee. You can’t turn a game into feeding McGee in the post so you can develop McGee. Wall wants to win the game.
by hambonejackson on Jan 16, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So why doesn't Blatche get benched for stupid, lazy selfish play?
Why don’t other players get called out publicly? Is McGee the only player he’s coaching?
by YellaFella on Jan 16, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Um
I don’t know if everybody noticed, but Blatche lost his starting slot. I don’t think that’s Flip coddling Blatche.
by MR on Jan 17, 2012 6:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Blatche doesn't get pulled for mistakes.
And he was moved to the second team because Flip wanted scoring from the second unit. It had nothing to do with Blatche’s play. It never does, because Flip thinks he’s some kind of all-star.
by YellaFella on Jan 17, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“Coach wanted some scoring from the second unit”
=
“It’s not you it’s me.”
Nobody really believes it. It’s just something people say.
by MR on Jan 17, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He does not need Flip to lambast him.
The guys on TNT a national channel not a local channel like CSN trashed McGee for the dunk and also question where McGee head was at in fact called it stupid.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't understand
Javale is cleary the second best player on our team so he makes mistakes on defense whats the point of taking him out of the game if he has to learn how to play defense. I just don’t understand, maybe they just don’t want Mcgee to do TOO well so that the Wizards are forced to overpay him to keep him. That’s the only theory I get.
by Young Wook Lee on Jan 16, 2012 7:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Based on this season
He is the First best player on the team. I am assuming you consider Wall the best player, but look at thier attributes
Freakish athleticism – Both
Developing offensive game – Both
Defense – Advantage McGee
Good decision making – Advantage Wall (maybe)
Physically and mentally, they basically come out to be equal in thier own way, so you look at stats. McGee is having a better statistical year
This team is a factory of sadness
Flip just wants everyone to be as miserable as him. Once he starts putting personal vendettas in front of winning games it’s PAST time for him to go.
It’s 2012 for crissakes, let the home fans talk about something entertaining at the water cooler tomorrow.
by el freako on Jan 16, 2012 7:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm done with McGee
He doesn’t care about winning and that makes him the big man version of Ben Gordon. Let’s move him over the summer instead of going the 1 yr QO route.
by djnnnou on Jan 16, 2012 7:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
He's going to develop into a top-5 center in this league
and Wall should develop into a top-5 point guard. Though we’re still years away from fielding a good team, a few of the essential pieces are in place. In my opinion.
And I think it’s absolutely crucial for Javale’s development that he plays under a different coach.
On an entirely different level, these players are in the entertainment business. Javale is already one of the most entertaining centers in the league. Once he puts it all together (and he’s been taking enormous leaps), he’ll be a dominating AND entertaining player. Just look at his performance against Joakim Noah, or against Philly the other night.
Even as we lose in exceedingly frustrating fashion, McGee’s play makes each game worth tuning into. And once we fire Flip, I think we’ll see another step in his progression. It’s simply ridiculous for anyone to ascribe such nonsense like “he doesn’t care about winning” when you don’t know the guy
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No, it's ridiculous to assert that McGee will be a top-5 center.
This is a contract year and he still can’t control himself. Things don’t get better after knuckleheads get paid. Wizard fans should know that.
by djnnnou on Jan 16, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
McGee doesn't seem like the type to be content with a big contract
He wants to be considered the best in the league. It’s what drives Wall too, and all the greats, but McGee is given a disproportionate amount of hate around here for that particular drive.
McGee is already a top 10 center:
4th among centers in rebounding.
1st among centers in blocks.
10th among centers in scoring.
He also plays 8 less minutes than Marc Gasol, who is #3 in boards, but who gets only .6 more boards a game than he does.
And McGee’s nowhere near reached his ceiling. Frankly, I think it’s ridiculous to assert that McGee can’t be a top-5 center. He’s only 23, playing a position that notoriously takes the longest to develop in, AND he’s a comparably late-bloomer.
The hate for Javale McGee continues to astound me
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Not to be rude, but does it really matter that much??
I think the +1 is just a common Internet term to let someone know he agrees with the comment. It’s not his fault the rec button isn’t as easy to see
by SkinsWizStangs on Jan 16, 2012 9:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
It keeps getting ridiculouser and ridiculouser
At least 20 centers can be considered top 10 if the stats are cherry picked.
I don’t disagree with your point, but point guard is the position in basketball that every TV talking head says takes the longest to develop, not center. I think it goes back to the idea that you don’t coach height so every NBA center beat out far fewer guys to reach a spot in the NBA than every PG did. i.e. there is a much smaller pool of people even eligible to be a center.
mcgee is only 23....he is only getting better
blatche is terrible every night and yet all i see is people wanting to get ride mcgee
Then you aren't looking very hard
Blatche gets plenty of criticism.
by djnnnou on Jan 16, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think McGee can be the best center in the league
if he starts to play every game like he did against the Sixers 2nd game. He regressed in this last game. He needs maybe another season or 2 unless they think he is the next. Chamberlain.
by hambonejackson on Jan 16, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Dwight Howard would need to lose a leg and three fingers for this to ever be possible.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 16, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Best Centers
Howard is the best center now. Andrew Bynum looks like he might be the next great center. Drummonds could be the best center after that.
He'll be top 10
Top 5 is hard to claim.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Jan 16, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
On what basis do you make the assumption he doesn't care about winning
Are we really going to fall into the trap of allowing another player to become an all star for another team after investing in him because we “think” he doesn’t care?
That would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
If we think we have better options for the max contract he will likely get close to, we should sign him. But I am pretty sure that his preference for winning and losing is not going to be part of the evaluation process. Making dumb decisions does not translate to not caring.
I am also not sure how the most improved player this year on our team can be defined at a guy that doesn’t care about winning.
javale on getting benched
McGee said he didn’t have a problem sitting. "I was thinking, ‘Keep me out,’ " McGee said. "We were playing well. So let’s get this win, the only way we can."
doesnt sound like a guy stat padding for a contract
by DCrez on Jan 16, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's been at least 10 years. There needs to be a statue of limitations on trotting out past trades.
I heard it last year with regards to Nick, and the year before by people defending Dray’s extension.
by djnnnou on Jan 16, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Javale will definitely blow up elsewhere
He’s a hard worker who puts in the time required….that always pays off, he’ll get better every year, for proof, the fact he’s gotten better every season of his career so far.
by DCrez on Jan 16, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares if he is the second best player, that means nothing when you have one win…….
hello……..for as good as he plays at times he doubles that with the mistakes he makes . I agree 10000000 percent with flip, he is trying to get the team to play the right way and mcdumb does not get it. He hustles which your suppose to do but he is so dumb and for ny to defend him, ship him out too along with sleepy. Honestly your losing the game and you try that shit…..get rid of blatche, mcgee and young all leftovers anyway, if your going to rebuild ship those losers out. NY…he is trying to have fun….your kidding right, you have one win …..like I said before, if these guys have not gotten it yet they never will, just keep making tupid videos and eating cinnamon just do it on another team, you think kobe would stand for these clowns….
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 16, 2012 7:27 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Frankly, I’d rather have my players making youtube videos and eating cinnamon in their spare time than sleeping around and cheating on a wife and children.
But that’s just me.
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
how about players that do not do either…really dude , they have won one game cant blame flip with the players he has, there is no specific rotation that ’s going to work, if your going to blame someone blame they guy who brought these players in.
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 16, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just pointing out the hypocrisy in highlighting Kobe when blasting NY or McGee’s off-court actions
by Max Zamphirescu on Jan 16, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
he's trying to get the team to play the right way
How? his rotations are the worst. Some players can make mistake after mistake after mistake and play 30+ minutes….is there another coach named flip out there?
This seems like more of a personal attack on javale and nick
Rather than an actual analysis of the quotes. “He hustles which your suppose to do but he is so dumb”
by oakhillswag on Jan 16, 2012 8:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
no attack man...
let me say it in another way…he does not have a very good basketball iq…is that better?
The problem is...
Is that Flip seems on the surface to bench (punish) some players for stupid players yet he tolerates incredibly poor shot selection from others (i.e. Young, Crawford) and poor defense from others(i.e. Blatche).
Sounds like Flip needs to take the team aside and say if you do this…..you are benched for ‘x’ amount of minutes.
It is the inconsistency which I believe is maddening……
And for those who are dumping McGee, yes it was a dumb play but it was also a teachable moment for Flip. Benching is fine, but he should have done it right away.
by Aquamaneastfish on Jan 16, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
The day JaVale McGee doesn't do amazing dunks will be a day to stop watching this team
Seriously, that’s the best thing Flip Saunders can find to criticize? Complain if he misses the dunk. For the love of God, the coach of the worst team in the league is telling his players to tone it down.
by satchmore on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Sad, but true. And watch Blatche HANG AROUND THE PERIMETER...
Even when he’s playing the 5. And watch Blatche get beaten for rebounds, and black hole-it on offense, and…
and watch Dray still play 36 minutes
while JaVale gets benched and plays 24
by koop1122 on Jan 16, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would prefer building a team that wins but if you would prefer to let the team keep losing so you can see a couple dunks, I guess that is your right.
by Mixmy1200s on Jan 17, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Am I the only one
concerned with Singleton and Booker starting together? Both are nice hustle-players but are not offensively skilled enough to provide Wall with the surrounding firepower he needs — particularly with NY struggling. I realize there aren’t many alternatives but I’d rather have Blatche start with one of the two and take my chances. If only Rashard could find his old legs or Vesley’s development could be expedited.
by Uknowit2309 on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Look at this way
Who do you like at SF more than Singelton? Evans and Lewis are not there. Vessely doesn’t give you a unique skillset over Singleton. Both are good defenders.
Who do you like at PF more than Booker? Blatche is soft on defense, but has offensive skills. Seraphin lacks refinement. Vesselly is still too weak.
In the next draft, we’ll have to upgrade our SG and PF. But, for righ tnow, I’d rather have guys who play hard playing those positions.
Didn't watch the game.
How come C Sing getting so little minutes? And also Book? Was it the offense or they got killed on the defensive end?
CSing was awesome defensively, had some great plays vs Kevin Martin
at one point simply grabbed the ball out of his hands and took it full court for the lay-in. I dont know why Flip didnt play him more
thanks.
I hope somebody asks Fliip about this.
Missed the game
But wow on Walls box score, great to see. I continue to feel better about the team when I think of Wall + McGee + the 2012 draft talent. This might also just be “acceptance.”
Grunfeld needs to do everything he can to get another 1st round pick.
It also means we have basically wasted a year of our rebuild
We already had Wall and McGee last year…. Sure they are developing but we added NOTHING, not a single true building block over the summer.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
Singleton?
A defensive stopper who can defend various positions should be a building block on any championship team.
I like the Bullets
Yes but
Singleton? A three and D guy?
Also, the draft sucked because of the lockout. Unfortunate but just the way it is. I agree it probably cost us a year.
Singleton and Booker are nice to have role players. Not need to have core pieces.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
do you think blatche, mcgee or ny be on the lakers, spurs or heat…..you think kobe would let this stuff go, you guys really accept losing
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 16, 2012 7:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"I told him that’s unacceptable," Saunders said. "Maybe I’m too old-school, but you see that and the [lobbying] for the All-Star Game, that right there is where we have to get to where we identify with meat and potato basketball. Playing hard, setting screens, playing the right way, and not highlight-type play. We’ve said this many times. We have some players that look for highlights instead of substance."
McGee didn’t really get why the anger.
"Apparently, if you get a fast break and you throw it off the backboard in the third quarter and you’re 1-11, you’re not supposed to do stuff like that," McGee said, seemingly sarcastically. "I felt like I was trying to get the team hyped and trying to make a good play, so I felt like we did that, and we went on a run from there."
Actually JaVale, it’s 1-12. McGee’s confusion may stem back to this kind of thing not being consistently enforced through the Wizards season. Part of that falls on Saunders. But it falls on the Wizards’ players also. Royce Young said it well at Eye on Basketball.
I like McGee. I don’t think he’s a total knucklehead. I think he plays hard, tries to get better and wants to win. But he, along with some of his teammates, continue to do dumb things. It’s a culture thing. You can’t continue to think about yourself or highlights. You have to think about the team and what’s most important… At some point, you’ve just got to grow up. You can’t continue to waste talent and opportunity. Be a professional. An NBA game isn’t your own personal playground. It’s about the final score. It’s about winning and losing, the latter of which you know plenty about.
That the locker room was divided on the play and Saunders reaction tells you all you need to know about the Wizards locker room. John Wall sided with Saunders. Veteran Maurice Evans did as well. But Nick Young diplomatically tried to take McGee’s side.
There is a culture change that needs to happen in the Wizards locker room and this is one step on a long journey. A journey that is going to require some roster moves because this team doesn’t want to "play the right way" most nights. Saunders needs to more of this — and the locker room needs to start policing itself.
Right now, the D.C. locker room is about as focused on what is best long-term as Congress in that same town. It has to change. With the Wizards it might.
by WAAAAALL-E on Jan 16, 2012 7:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
All totally predictable...here is what I said in the game thread immediately
after it happened…
Its funny…McGee got a highlight..and I suspect it will be the hook to almost every article about the game….and not in a good way…unless we find a way to come back…It will likely override Wall’s comeback game…
That the exact reason why Mcgee can't make that play
It is such a Me First move that it overshadows the accomplishment of his teammates. If he really wants to make a name for himself then go out and drop a couple 20 and 20’s while winning us a couple games.
by ccrun1800 on Jan 17, 2012 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He also messed up an assist for Wall I believe
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
The 'message' of pulling McGee for a 'flash over substance play' and poor effort later on, was totally diminished by not being consequent towards other players.
To me it was a horrible play but one with little impact on the outcome of the game. I like the quick hook by Flip in and of itself, it was what a good coach would do, especially after his lackadaisical effort latter on.
However, Blatche was really hurting us with his turrible defensive effort tonight. Crawford was sorta hot but he broke up plays and chucked some bad shots. Mason was doing the same (without being hot) and Evans looked like he needs a vacation.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:23 AM EST up reply actions
Blatche was +3 on the night, McGee was -18. The unit on the floor was playing well. Flip chose to stick with what was working.
by yop32 on Jan 17, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
McGee was a starter, Blatche was not
so the plus/minus being “all John Wall” sort of is a bigger indictment of McGee since he was mostly on the floor with Wall.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 17, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
blatche played 34mins, mcgee 25mins
wall went on that run in the 4th that helped everyone’s +/-
McGee sitting on the bench allowed Wall to go off
Opened up the paint for Wall to get to the rim.
Yop, Blatche's +/- is BS because Wall was trying to win the game and nearly succeeded
if it wasn’t for the horrible defense by Blatche and others.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
McGee sitting on the bench allowed Wall to go off
Opened up the paint for Wall to get to the rim. Blatche hit a couple of midrange J’s during the fourth (five points on two shots). He also rebounded well.
So, I disagree that Blatche’s +/- is complete BS. His ability to score and spread the floor for Wall helped us get back into the game.
Agree that Blatche’s D needs improvement, though.
Blatche's in a vacuum is a net negative (his PER shows that btw)
His offense is outweighed by his defense.
I agree in general that Blatche is better offensively for Wall, both scoring wise and in terms of floor spacing but he really that’s a non discussion as long as he hurts the team more than he helps
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
If that lineup gets both Wall and Blatche going, all the more reason to run with it
Blatche’s PER for the fourth quarter last night would have been excellent. He scored efficiently and rebounded well during that stretch. Funny what a couple of shooters on the perimeter can do for your floor spacing. Getting to your spots, getting your shot off- basketball is a game of inches. Those shooters on the perimeter can turn out to make a huge difference if they can give you those last couple of inches you need.
Not saying this is the be all, end all solution to our lineup question, but if this is what it takes to get our guys going and playing the right way, sign me up.
by yop32 on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I meant PER differential
Getting a 20 PER is great but if your opponent gets a 22 PER you’re hurting your team.
Same goes for Wall btw. He also had a negative PER differential last year. You know who didn’t? Javale.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
PER differential doesn't address my argument at all
My contention is that JaVale screws up our spacing, so he prevents the rest of our players from playing to their potential. That doesn’t show up in PER or in opponent counterpart PER.
These numbers show that John Wall, at least, plays much better without JaVale: http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#John-Wall-vs-JaVale-McGee|202322,201580;year=201112;season=r
And much better with Blatche: http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#John-Wall-vs-Andray-Blatche|202322,101154;year=201112;season=r
Some of those numbers are gigantic. 10% swings in FG%? 10.9 and 7.7 swings in +/- per 36 minutes?
I have been thinking about this bench McGee but not benching Dray thing
The difference: Dray’s problem is poor basketball plays. McGee – poor, selfish attitude.
by isum on Jan 17, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure we need to get rid of Javale
But I think we should only keep one of Javale, Nick and Dray. I think they’re all decent and all have the capacity to be highly successful NBA players, but together they seem to create a pretty toxic locker room. I would probably prefer to keep Javale since he has the highest ceiling, but I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him for a high lottery pick in next year’s draft. Nick will probably walk after this year and they should let him. I don’t dislike Dray as much as most here, but I think he’s probably not going to succeed in this town.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 16, 2012 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
every time someone comes to this realization i am glad
but i wish it would have happened years ago, especially with ernie. it really shouldn’t have been that hard to see.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 16, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
and i'm less concerned about the locker room
than the cooperation on the court
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 16, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
keep Javale. Nick will walk. Dray is not going to improve much. What he has shown us is probably what he can do at best already.
haha
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:24 AM EST up reply actions
Pop, Spoelstra or Mike Brown
wouldn’t permanently bench a guy that could help them win first of all. Because the bottom line is winning. I can imagine Pop getting in McGee’s face right away and squashing it on the spot not letting it linger into post-game commentary.
One more reason Flip is in over his head here.
by el freako on Jan 16, 2012 8:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think we have two people in the wrong...
You can’t punish the team for the behavior of one person. Pulling him immediately is fine if you think it is unacceptable. Keeping him out in a blowout is fine. But here is what Flip did once we made our run.
- Kept a player hurt in the game, who was clearly fatigued, risking further injury.
- Clearly limited the team potential to make a comeback
- Further alienated a potential core piece
- Created tension between players, some of who may now go home thinking, “we could have won if Javale didn’t make that mistake”, potentially creating resentment.
Reprimand him. Fine him. Make him do extra sprints in practice. But that was not the type of play that is egregious enough to punish the entire team.
Poor decision by Javale and poor decision by Flip.
We are dysfunctional.
by DavidDunn on Jan 16, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great comment
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:26 AM EST up reply actions
Let's see....
…..somebody makes a dunk for two points on a fast break. It creates a rebuke and controversy.
If one hadn’t watched the game, there could be no person who could have described what happened to incur the rebuke. However, 75% of the people would have said McGee was involved in it (with the other 25% going to Young).
Think about that for a while. And then answer why does it matter, along with why the cinnamon act matters.
Are correcting these sort of things going to make a difference in the team’s success? I doubt it. But, on the other hand, they do create unnecessary angst and friction
In looking at this game, I would have expected McGee to have gotten 10 touches down low, particularly after his performance in the last game. In fact, he should get 10 touches down low in every game. We’re rebuilding. He could miss 9 out of 10, but he would improve over time. Why not focus on this issue?
I didn't really see what the big deal was
The bigger issue at that point in the game was that he was getting worked on pick and rolls and was not boxing out on the defensive end. McGee played a pretty good game, but nothing special. Houston’s bigs are just to experienced to let McGee get the better of them.
As for McGee's numbers
Even on a 1-12 team, somebody has to get rebounds. It’s not about the numbers, trust your eyes, he gets outplayed every other night by the opposing center. And it won’t be a stat fest for the other guy, it will just be about executing in the clutch and getting rebounds when it matters. McGee can’t do any of that right now.
What's so great
about being tenth in the NBA in rebounds when you’re on a team with Andray Blatche and the only other decent big man on the team is out with a broken hand?
Numbers don't lie. If you want to pick on somebody....
Pick on Nick Youngs big fat Zero Rebounds and 1 assist.
So we lost
because Nick Young couldn’t shoot? To me it seemed like we lost because we couldn’t get a rebound when it mattered, and we got killed on the pick and roll.
I'm sorry but come on man...Flip was outcoached, uses Javale as an easy decoy and you are buying it apperantly.
Yes, McGee shouldn’t have dunked off the backboard and was rightfully punished.
However: The reason we lost however is 2 fold: we totally lost control of the game in the 3rd by getting techs, not executing on offense (empty possessions) and defending bad.
Digging a hole WHICH we overcame by making John Wall taking over and getting some stops, but than fell asleep on the defensive end again. Part of that was on the players (particularly Blatche who was doing nothing on the defensive end) and part of it was on Flip fielding the wrong players.
Flip was right to punish McGee but he should have just pulled him directly after the dunk, shout him in the face and let him sit for a while. He then should have played McGee, Booker and Singleton with Wall and either Crawford or Young (whoever of them hit a shot or two) and go for the win.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:38 AM EST up reply actions
Message to JaVale: KEEP ENTERTAININGME-so I can still watch
When your 1-12 you have to be entertained somehow.
Besides HE SCORED!
by jmpalomo on Jan 16, 2012 9:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yes, he scored that time
But, remember when he launched himself from the free throw line and screwed up the dunk…..yeah
I’d like to win a few games. McGee’s head gets in the way of his overwhelming talent. Flip doesn’t seem to be able to fix it, but he’s not wrong to tell him when he’s being an idiot.
by GJennings on Jan 16, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
was at the game and cringed but also appreciated it somewhat
people spend their hard earned to show up and see this shitfest….that’s an easy play for Javale, he shouldnt have done it but it’s not THAT big a deal.
by DCrez on Jan 16, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Still, McGee should just be smart and stop hurting his image with these kinds of plays
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:40 AM EST up reply actions
Look at this way
People feel they have to pick a side, either on Team Flip or Team McGee. Flip can be a lousy coach. McGee could have made stupid play. Both are true.
When I watched that play, I actually thought he clearly traveled and said “well, here’s another play for the dunk competition.” It was stupid. We got lucky the travel wasn’t called.
by GJennings on Jan 16, 2012 9:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The problem I have with the McGee thing
is that if it was anyone else on the roster that did what he did (maybe Crawford), they wouldn’t have gotten benched for it. The only player Flip is tough on is McGee. I don’t think many people on the team respect him because he lets them do whatever they want on the court except McGee.
Flip should worry about more important stuff like benching Dray when he goes on 1-on-1 mode or doesn’t rotate on D, or when NY doesn’t look to pass.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
I'm just not sure that true
The closest I could see this season was John’s dunk against Boston, but that was more “rage” than showboating.
I have not seen that much showboating from Wizards this season. McGee seems to be the biggest offender.
Also, McGee seems the most thick-headed about this stuff. His response seems to indicate he doesn’t understand Flip’s complaint. Like “why can’t I dribble the ball up the court?” have obvious answers, but he doesn’t seem to get them.
Hopefully, the next coach will be able to get through to him, because he does have the talent to be a top 5 center, and maybe even a top 3. He just doesn’t have the basketball IQ. yet.
by GJennings on Jan 16, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah no one else on the team has done something like that
But I’m saying I’m pretty sure if someone else did it, Flip wouldn’t have benched them for it. My reasons for saying this is because when McGee fails to box out, rotate on D, or dribble the ball up the court, he gets benched for it immediately, but if Dray did all those things, he wouldn’t be benched.
Flip is a pushover. No way a coach like him can lead his team all the way. He doesn’t command respect from his players.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
Andray must have some pictures of Flip
That’s the only thing I can think off for his preferrential treatment
So coming off the bench is preferential treatment now
by djnnnou on Jan 16, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But once he checks in the game
Flip keeps him in like he’s having a positive impact. When you keep Andray in past 10 min, expect the rest of it to be negative.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
Not defending Flip
But when he is the only forward you have that can hit a 16ft jumpshot how else are you going to score. I would say McGee but all he will do is try a quick spin move and fumble the ball off his leg. I did see Flip though try and get McGee going when he gave him the ball down low and told everybody clear out.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Flip overplays AB
But, he didn’t have a lot of options. If you’re punishing McGee for showboating, you can’t put him back in. You don’t want to put Seraphin in, because he’s too raw. That’s pretty much all you have at center.
At this point, however, it’s clear a chance in coaching needs to be made. Camps have become entrenched at this point. Young clearly wants to defend McGee, but knows that Flip will hold it against him. Wall and Evans clearly want to attack McGee for his antics, and feel a bit entitled to do so given Flip’s comments.
I say Flips right.
The world agrees with Flip I don’t know if the guys at TNT saw Flip’s comments about the dunk but they called it stupid and bush league also.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nick always supports the guy making the poor choices. That's him M.O.
Classic enabler. When Gil was pooping in that shoe Nick was probably holding it.
except he didnt take him out after that dunk
he took him out later, then put him back in, then took him out for good….and then made a big deal about in the postgame. So if that dunk is such an epically wrong thing to do….why didnt Flip bench him for 5mins right then and be done with it?
Instead he goes with another ass lineup to finish the game, then spins it back on Mcgee as if Flip had no choices
No he took him out
After he slow tailed it back up court and gave up a easy layup and everybody yelled at him Asst coaches, and players not just Flip.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so the dunk really wasnt that big of an issue?
until the postgame that is and Flip needed to explain why the team is horrible?
Maybe Flip is trying to play Dray into shape
Are we sure that extra playing time is a reward for Blatche? If you’re fat and out of shape, would you rather sit in a cushioned chair and watch a game or run up and down a basketball court in front of a few thousand booing fans?
Alternatively
He could be trying to increase AB’s number so EG can trade him.
I think, however, Flip still believes in AB’s potential to be great. I think that’s problematic, because AB is not a starter on a starting team. AB seems best as the first front court guy off the bench. Playing against 2nd team defenders, his offense looks a lot better. Additionally, when he’s guarding lesser skill opponents, he’s poor perimeter defense is less apparent. Lastly, his conditioning issues are less important when his minutes are broken up as a back-up player, rather than playing long stretches as a starter.
As a bench player, AB has some value. As a starter, he’s an out-of-shape defensive liability.
by GJennings on Jan 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mcgee has a terrific night Sat and Flip's first postgame comment was "He should have played like that last night"
Time to go, Flip
by DCrez on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly exactly
he hates Mcgee no doubt about that. he’s trying to distract people by harping on the Mcgee thing ignoring why his team is in free fall after talking playoffs in the preseason.
Flip specifically said that Seraphin would push Mcgee for minutes this season.
He didnt make that kind of remark about any other starter on the team, there’s a pretty obvious rift between them
But
How are we still questioning Flip’s methods, after the noticeable improvement we’ve seen from Javale? Can’t say for sure its the cause, but I don’t think Flip is holding him back. You take the leash off of this player, and he’ll forget all about his actual responsibilities.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 9:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
well, Flip had no bearing on the improvement Javale showed this offseason
He wasnt allowed any contact with him, and Mcgee did say he hired a big man coach in LA.
for whatever reason Flip has determined that Javale needs constant negative re-enforcement while Dray must be treated with kid gloves in the media. I’m just saying I bet it all gets real old when you are the guy always getting called out
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know about that
Even if Javale was just motivated to come back and say hey Flip, look what I learned. Then credit to Flip.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
important stuff people should worry about imo
is that we have 2 real players and one of them is Javale.
Really?
Singleton looks like a real talent in the model of Shane Battie or Ron Artest. Though I’m not a huge fan of his game, Nick Young played really well last season. Vesselly looks to have AK-47 potential.
McGee is a good player, but I think Wall, Young, and Singleton have earned their minutes.
artest averaged 12pts in his rookie year, Battier went for 14/night
Ak47 averaged 11/night as rookie, had a 27pt game and scored at least 10 points in 48 games….let’s be sure to hold our 3 to those types of standards, because if they cant score like that then they arent that player. Personally watching the 3 of them today really drives home how poorly Ernie constructed this roster
ak-47 is a bad comparison, imo
i’m not sure there is a mold for vesely. i’m more worried about his defensive rebounding than his shooting at this point
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 16, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Ves watch
he’s now played 81mins without attempting a single jumpshot…..if he’s slated to be our SF that concerns me more than the rebounds. Come on Jan, you’ve dipped your toes enough by now, time to jump in the deep end of the pool
I think I remember him attempting one in one of the Philly games
but it didn’t go in
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
I saw that jumper too
16 footer from the right wing, bounced off the bottom of the rim.
Hey, he did hit the rim. Progress!
Going back to crying now
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Call me crazy if you like.
But do you think Jan could have a jumper like the Nowitzki I mean they both have a similar form how they arch their shot. I mean of course he will need to work on it but I do like his arch in his shot.
Yeah it's good that he has high arc on his shot already
Unlike other people on our roster that can’t shoot like Wall, Lewis, Crawford, Booker, etc.
Formerly know as iNFamous SWaGG
I dont' think so.
He can’t even shoot a FT at this moment.
get nowitzki's personal trainer in here
i said that the moment vesely was drafted. holger geschwindner, the man who made nowitzki should open a shooting camp for tall white dudes.
I like the Bullets
Honestly I'd almost rather see Jan try to develop a post game like Pau
Instead of a jumper like Dirk. Dirk is a one-in-a-million type player with his size and shooting ability. Especially with his quicks, Jan could be a destroyer in the post once he puts on some weight, which WILL happen in the next two years or so
Maybe he's been told to avoid taking jumpers. Or just not to do it.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
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by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 9:20 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
we have 2 real players and possibly 2 role players
Mcgee and Wall and Singleton and Booker as role guys.
Agreed 100%
The alarming thing is Ernie fell ass backwards into Wall and Singleton, McGee was drafted in a different era and so all Ernie has got to show for his rebuilding effort is Booker so far
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes....
I wish dan synder owned the wizards. He would fire Flip.
Vinny & Zorn....Boudreau....Riggleman....Addition By Subtraction.
by FireFLIP on Jan 16, 2012 10:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He would have fired Flip
McHale, Tim Floyd, Mark Jackson, and four other coaches this season.
I think it’s a bit early to criticize Ted over coaching. If he keeps Flip past the all-star break with this record, I think he deserves the scorn.
We would have also already traded for Zach Randolph and OJ Mayo as well. Probably tried leverage our next 3 1st round picks for an aging Paul Pierce in there too.
by Mixmy1200s on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the dunk did not lose the game, the issues were before the dunk and will not go away because of the dunk
by dmv4life on Jan 16, 2012 10:06 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agree.
It’s lack of talent that’s the biggest issue, then it’s play’s like the dunk that become a issue. People easily forget how mad they were at Javale for bringing the ball up just a year ago now because he got a baby Kareem hook shot and his rebound totals are up there on the defense dude is young but he has too many mental lapses I don’t think Bynum had as many.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes Bynum has I have see every Lakers game as a fan of there's as well and Bynum is messing up as well
terrible in pick and roll offense and is turning the ball over all the time PLUS he’s imature and pouts all the time.
Really ?
But Kobe thinks the world of him and Bynum has rings to show for it, on top of the fact Kobe wanted him gone but now thinks they really don’t need to trade for Dwight because they have Gasol and Bynum what they are lacking is a PG.
Kobe has asked for Bynum to be traded multiple times
He hates Bynum.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:46 AM EST up reply actions
Plus his rings say nothing about Andrew Bynum at all.
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
Follow @Dylan___V
by returnofswagger on Jan 17, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Phil Jackson was highly critical of Bynum at times and Kobe wanted him gone at one point
Lakers fanbase surely called him stupid and all that at times…..now they wouldnt trade him for Dwight straight up. Dumbest thing this franchise could do is let a walking-dead coach like Flip affect decisions on Mcgee
I guess you did not know
That Phil and Kobe did not have a good relationship either and at one point left L.A. because of Kobe and now has 9 rings because of Kobe.
by p.robb87 on Jan 16, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Flip makes a dumb comment regarding mcgee and selfish play and stat padding
And Mcgee shot the ball 7 times in a game and shoots over 50% grabs 10 boards and blocks 3 shots but all thats on his mind is Mcgee is showboating on a play he completed.
we are debating the merits of a slam dunk that went in the damn hoop thats how insanely ridiculous Flip is and we all are debating the nonsense. In the 3rd quarter of a game.
he harps on that
while Nick Young plays 29 minutes goes 3-12 and decides nothing else in the game is worth doing 1 assist and no rebounds.
yet Mcgee is a problem because of a made dunk. come on.
I’ll tell you what Mcgee is one of the best young centers in the nba averaging a double double and leading the league in shot blocks.
Trust me if we are stupid enough not to see his value he’ll be the main cog at center for an actual good team.
no shortage of suitors the league is craving centers that are rebounders and shot blockers.
by jazzy1 on Jan 16, 2012 10:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
i agree with flip on there.
javale needs to play good basketball, and stop thinking only about highlights….
by thewiz06 on Jan 16, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
does it matter he made the dunk why is it news.
I’m a fan it was entertaining
the perception of this team as a bunch of clowns.
sure it got in and fans were happy it got in. What would have happened if he missed it, and then Houston gets a bucket? As a fan I want to be entertained, but in light of the fact that we are trying to build a good team culture here, we should not be making plays like that.
by thewiz06 on Jan 16, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agree.
It would have been more entertaining if he 1. did it on somebody alas Vince Carter in the All-Star game, and 2. We were winning. Nobody cares about a highlight dunk if you are down what was it 13,14 points and look like you are well on your way to another loss, in front of your home crowd. Period.
IT DOESN'T matter we are shooting it terrible and not defending those are the problems
Team culture is cultivated by being unselfish helping each other on defense competing hard not the flair for which a guy dunks or Wall’s facial expessions
by jazzy1 on Jan 16, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
is it really any worse than Wall and Dray getting tech'd on consecutive plays for whining about no-calls?
is that any less clownish or selfish or whatever description we’re calling the wiz?
by DCrez on Jan 16, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What would of happened if he missed it?
then he should be benched. To me its one of those plays that a coach should say if your going to do some highlight play then you better make it. Reminds me of highschool ball when some of us started dunking in practice and we all wanted to do it in a game. Our coach just flat out told us if you get a chance to dunk it number 1. make sure it goes in or you sit and number 2. get the crowd going.
Flip is way too passive agressive… if he’s going to get on JaVale so much and make such a big deal about this dunk then the next time John Wall goes at the rim with one of his thunderous left handed dunks and back rims it… he needs to be benched.
JaVale has grown so much as a player from a year ago and I still haven’t seen the play but I’m sure as long and athletic as he is it wasn’t to difficult a dunk for him.
by koop1122 on Jan 16, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Everything you said was on point
I think if he missed it, you chastise and bench him. He makes it, you tell him thats not ideal (if you say anything at all) and move on.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
The thing is, he DIDN'T miss it
And we got the bucket, which you can’t take back. That’s like saying what if someone would’ve missed a game-winner that they actually made. Then that team loses instead of winning, but the player did make it so its a moot point. Get me?
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
by qthaballa on Jan 17, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's obvious from his play this season that he's not only thinking about highlights.
He’s staying in the post, has added a hook shot (that’s shaky at the moment, but getting better), is focusing more on rebounding and defense.
Yes, his play was unfortunate, but for Flip to say JaVale doesn’t care about substance is idiotic. Flip HAS to go, plain and simple.
He’s staying in the post too long. Playing in the post, he only helps himself and hurts his teammates by clogging up the paint. He needs to step outside and set some picks to help free up his teammates.
He's doing that a *bit* better this year, but I agree that it's still a problem.
But in general, no, he needs to stay closer to the basket. Not taking 18-foot jumpers. Not dribbling to get closer for a shot. He’ll also grab more boards down there.
Who said anything about 18 foot jumpers or dribbling?
I said he needs to step outside and set picks. And no, he’s not doing that a bit better this year. On the contrary, I think he’s gotten much worse, because he’s focusing on trying to post up instead of trying to set picks. He used to set multiple mediocre picks every trip down the floor. This year, he rarely sets any (but they’re just as mediocre). Instead he focuses on trying to establish position in the low block.
It's about shot clock usage
When a great slasher has the ball, you don’t want your C in the low block on the strong side for too long, because he clogs up the driving lanes.
He can try to establish deep strong side position for a second or two, but if it’s not there, he needs to clear the lane to give his teammates room to operate.
For most of the shot clock, you either want him on the weak side low block, ready to grab the offensive rebound, or you want him farther away from the basket. Setting screens, either for the ball handler or for a shooter. High post to catch and shoot if he’s capable of hitting a J.
Every time JaVale sets up in the strong side low block for half the shot clock, I’m disappointed in both JaVale’s poor basketball IQ and John Wall’s inability to take leadership control of this team.
by yop32 on Jan 17, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What's your point ?
Howard had 8 points, 10 boards, and 3 blocks and easily would be considered one of his worst performances of the season as far as our frontline that would be in a improvement and he got that while being double teamed most of the night. That’s the difference between a legit Center and a decent one. I never said Javale could not be elite, all I am saying is I would like to see it happen more than just two or three weeks and he has been playing for what 3 or 4 years in the NBA.
Dwight Howard is in his 8th season and was the number 1 pick overall
JaVale is in his 4th year and we picked him 18th overall… still has A LOT of potential and is improving while being one of the most effective centers in the league… at age 23.
saw some of these highlights JaVale made
nice for a Harlem Globetrotters game.. The block he made was actually like a pass to a teammate so I’ll give him credit there…
But the off the backboard dunk isn’t something he should be attempting in a game. Just lay it in or do a simple dunk…. jeez.
by thewiz06 on Jan 16, 2012 10:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It sucks that flip explicitly pointed out the dunk as why he pulled McGee
while the dunk was tastless, McGee’s stepback fadeaway was a much much worse shot.
that being said, nick young on javale's dunk:
“he had some big ‘kahunas.’”
by Alpha_Snail on Jan 16, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking about the Globetrotters
I think Curly Neal may offer JaVale a $9 million net contract after seeing his two plays this past afternoon. This way, he can block and make as many backboard dunks as he wants! Really, JaVale’s talents would be truly legendary as the Globetrotters show off their dribbling and handling skills in a game of hoops to share around the world. Perfect!
by thewiz06 on Jan 16, 2012 10:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
For people to defend what Mcgee did what he did and when he did it
is a bit disturbing about the kind of basketball that is accepted in DC. Maybe its the fans who are immature.Maybe McGee would not be driven to this if fans in DC expected a higher level of basketball.
by hambonejackson on Jan 17, 2012 1:26 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
If we were winning would it be any different?
Its basically a frickin circus show between Wade/LeBron nightly and I hear no complaints. This is ridiculous that people are making such a big deal out of this and one of the reasons we are the worst team in the league. Flip decides to readily discuss this rather than the fact that while JaVale went for the highlight he’s been dogging it for the team all year and showing steady improvement.
Then there is his own issues with leaving Dray out on the floor too long and not playing JaVale even when it was apparent that we needed his presence inside (even though he struggled earlier; but you let your guys play through it)
Young also had a money quote
To me, I don’t know. I think you’re supposed to have fun. If you’re having fun, you play well, you play better. I know that’s the type of person JaVale is," Young said. "If he can’t be that occasionally, he might go back to the old ways. I see a change and he’s playing great, so I want to keep his head right and keep him on the same page.Yeah guys should be professional but know your personnel. That dunk did nothing but HELP the team. It was 2 points and I’m sure it got him fired up. The only concern I would understand is him reverting back to bad habits but he got the team 2 points on which was actually a routine play for BigaVale.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
Knowing your personnel in the case of the Wiz
is to get rid of players like McGee
by hambonejackson on Jan 17, 2012 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly Hambone
This was a utterly stupid boneheaded dunk that no one outside of DC agree’s with and that’s why we are a laughingstock. If McGee wanted to get the crowd hyped or set a blaze under his teammates asses how about a diving out of bounds rebound you know like Booker did to set that stupid dunk up in the first place, or how about out performing a Center who has not been a factor since Iverson was in philly. This was a I repeat utterly stupid thing to do I say it might be painfull thing to watch but in order to trade Blatche you are going to probably have to give up McGee and I am fine with it and still probably have to take back a bad contract.
So what McGee is leading the league in blocks per game, but you got a guy like Kevin Love that’s been putting up numbers that McGee should be putting up and he is a power forward and been playing about as long as Javale. Wake me up when he stop’s committing fouls off of pump fakes, get’s thrown around down low, he learn’s how to establish himself and box out, stop giving up easy layups off pick and roll, etc. Oh McGee you made Sports Center just not the way you would like to you had a column all to yourself called “making top plays the wrong way”. On another note when we should be adding elite talent like how the Clippers are doing around their rookie sensation you can add LA Clippers to Dwight Howards list of destinations not DC but LA.
I compare Griffin’s career to Wall’s simply because they played their rookie season unofficially at the sametime so I compare him to his counterparts in his rookie class and not Rose. Just threw it out there simply because you got to wonder if Wall looks at that and see’s his colleagues getting richer in talent ,success, and notoriety. It’s got to be hard on him especially if he see’s the best center in the world go play with the guy who robbed him of ROY. Instead he get’s to trot out the tunnel with the leading shot blocker in the NBA , not the multiple defensive player of the year but the league leader in blocks.
by p.robb87 on Jan 17, 2012 3:20 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Has McGee taken a team anywhere ever in his life?
by hambonejackson on Jan 17, 2012 3:57 AM EST up reply actions
It's not that Flip was wrong about punishing him
It’s that he isn’t consistant with it ánd he did it in the wrong way, hurting the team.
He should pulled McGee immediately, get in his face about it and sit him for 5 mins. Then he should have given his team a chance by playing McGee, Book and Singleton instead of Evans, Blatche.
This loss is on Flip and his double standards is retarding this team.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 5:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody agrees with this dunk BECAUSE we are a laughingstock
If LeBron did this during a Heat game, nobody cares – it’s another highlight on the reel
If Blake Griffin does this during a Clippers game, nobody cares – it’s another highlight on the reel
If Rudy Gay does this during a Grizzlies game, nobody cares – it’s another highlight on the reel
The point isn’t that JaVale committed some kind of mortal sin – the point is the team is, for all intents and purposes, a joke. Anything that happens on this team that can be mocked, WILL be mocked. Hell, if we had just WON the game, JaVale wouldn’t be taking as much heat. Because we lost the game, and because we’re a joke, everyone’s piling on. No, it’s not the “right basketball play” – but if you’re winning, nobody cares – this is an ENTERTAINMENT business, and JaVale knows this and is out there trying to entertain the poor folk who actually go to the games.
by jakenbake on Jan 17, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That's the divide--
folks who want to see “entertainment”
and
folks who want to see “basketball”.
I’m in the latter camp.
so subtract that dunk and you're watching "basketball"?
1-12 team with the worst offense in nba history is satisfactory?
Subtract playing for highlights.
Add playing team ball.
And you’re getting closer to basketball.
"team ball" is just a catchphrase
Booker, Vesely, and Singleton cant score so they get credited as “unselfish” guys who play “team ball” when in reality they are afraid to shoot.
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah... brilliant
anyone who gets labeled as selfish is not in fact selfish, they are just a scorer or a good shooter.
team ball is simply a euphemism for poor play by teams with players who aren’t good enough to go one-on-one every possession.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 17, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well Crawford is selfish and he can't shoot the ball well consistently
what does that make him? A selfish teamplayer?
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wade and LeBron throw alley oops and make crazy shots
but also make sound passes to teammates for buckets and they play sound defense. In other words, they have great fundamental awareness and when they make circus plays, they have the awareness of where their teammates are, which makes such plays easier. We don’t have that.
LeBron especially has a pass first mentality and knows how to get the ball to his teammates in order for them to score, just like a CP3 or a Steve Nash. Can’t wait to see Nick develop 1/10th of his vision skills. I can’t believe I am defending LeBron here too.
by thewiz06 on Jan 17, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am in the group that thinks we had ourselves a dumb and dumber...
JaVale should not have showboated and Flip should not have cut of his nose to spite his face.
Considering that JaVale is not yet 25 and Flip is around 60, I would expect a bit more maturity from Flip.
Pulling JaVale and letting Dalembert treat Dray like my cats treat a rubber mouse is simply horrible coaching. We wasted an extraordinary game from Wall. I had a feeling something extraordinary was gonna happen there when I watched Wall’s turnover stats early (zero!) and began to sense that he had his game under control from the get-go.
I just cannot wait until Ted makes the inevitable caoching change. It will be like letting fresh air into the Wizards locker room.
by khrabb on Jan 17, 2012 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Also thanks for posting quotes
I live in CT and don’t always visit the CSN website so its good to hear some sights and sounds from the players on a regular basis. And it so just so happens that these may be the best set of quotes I heard from guys all year.
On moral victories: “We keep putting ourselves in a hole, then we make this little comeback and everybody kind of feels happy with the little comeback. That’s getting old.”Spoken like a BF poster right there.
On inconsistency: “We’re the most self-inflicted team in the league right now. It’s like the most penalized team in football. Once we clean those things up, we give ourselves a chance.”This goes with Mason’s comments about it being good that we are losing and not being reinforced with wins when we play selfish. We are already not good enough to beat a lot of teams, turnovers and poor execution gives us no chance.
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
fuck flip saunders!
How the Hell is he still coaching this team? The magee dunk was the most exciting thing of the season! I already know we are going to lose but at least give me a reason to watch! To people saying get rid of magee, stop the crack smoking!
by Objdadon on Jan 17, 2012 3:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Holy crap, what a tempest in a teapot.
After “the dunk” Javale played another 6ish minutes. Then he came out for 4 or 5 minutes after he let Dalembert sneak up for a dunk while Javale was complaining about a call. Plus Dalembert was eating his lunch. Then McGee went back in later.
Flip didn’t bench McGee for any dunk. Flip thought it was bush league and it was. End of story. Flip rotated the guy out. Ves was defending the PnR so he stayed in.
Watch Flip’s comments on the situation. It’s pretty tame.
I’m not sure why everyone here is into self immolation.
by MR on Jan 17, 2012 6:46 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
My thing about McGee is
He is an entertainer. He made an entertaining play. If our biggest complaint about the game and the way the Wizards are playing is that Javale McGee made a fast break dunk (that he happened to throw off the backboard first), we have our priorities in the wrong place.
How about all the times when the Wizards players threw the ball of the backboard accidentially, let’s start complaining about that and not one player who is playing the best on the team this season.
by RonJon629 on Jan 17, 2012 8:30 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
the reason why many of ua are incensed about the backboard dunk is
is that it shouldn’t be in an NBA game in the first place, especially when the team is 1-11. The fact that JaVale said things sarcastically afterwards is enough for us to buy him out right now.
by thewiz06 on Jan 17, 2012 9:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
that would be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done.
by DCrez on Jan 17, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
talent wise, firing him is a dumb move.
but JaVale knows he has a rep for being a doofus, and plays to it too… His lack of fundamentals is just perplexing, and his lack of desire to play fundamentally sound basketball is even more so. Blatche at least doesn’t look for highlights every play!
by thewiz06 on Jan 17, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Did you watch him play last year?
The strides he made in his fundamenals are phenomenal! He is keeping his feet more on pump fakes, he has worked on a couple post moves, he has started boxing out, he is tipping rebounds to teammates…
He isn’t an all star but in these 13 games this season, he has been as fundamentally sound as any player on the Wizards. He has shown a true determination to win.
Blatche doesn’t look for highlights because he can barely dunk. JaVale is a freak athlete…most of what he does creates highlights because people his size aren’t supposed to be able to do what he does.
by RonJon629 on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The two big improvements JaVale are these
1. He has been better at tipping the ball as you said. Before all he would do is block shots to the suites.
2. Less unnecessary dribbling, but he isn’t a bad dribbler as a 7 footer so you never know when it actually does make sense for him to do it…
3. He has a hook shot.
The bad is that while he is jumping less, he is still jumping at the ball 80% of the time instead of 95% of the time it is within four feet of him, and we are getting many goaltends because he just wants to jump. He’s already established that threat, so now he really doesn’t have to.
Highlights aren’t bad, but they need to come as a result of making plays made toward winning a game.
by thewiz06 on Jan 17, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why shouldn't it be in the game?
These are world class atheletes whose physical capabilities are so much greater than ours, that we are willing to pay money to watch them. He is 7’1" and jumps like a gazelle, let’s see him do it. HE MADE THE DUNK!!! If he missed, I can understand the outrage. People paid their money to watch athletes do things that they can’t. I’m fine with him trying to entertain the crowd
by RonJon629 on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
again because of the wizards' performance
it is especially imperative that we reward sound basketball, not highlights. This goes especially on JaVale who clearly has shown that he prefers the latter.
by thewiz06 on Jan 17, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What is more sound
Than MAKING THE BASKET!!!
Yes, McGee shouldn't have attempted the dunk.
But JaVale has made significant strides this season. It’s clear he’s working on getting better: he’s added a hook shot (still in progress), and is parking himself in the post. He’s working harder on defending PnR’s. He’s not biting on pump fakes nearly as much. He’s playing better positional defense. His numbers and impact on the game are up across the board.
Would it have killed Flip to say “Yeah, that dunk was a boneheaded move, but I like the way JaVale’s competed this year, and improved in the offseason. I’m proud of what he’s done”? Does he really believe that publicly bashing McGee nonstop, and giving everyone else a pass is going to build esprit de corps?
It’s time for Ted/Ernie to dump Flip, and give a shot to someone who knows how to coach young players and build a young team.
I didn't think about the dunk 2 seconds after it happen.
I’m sort-of shocked we’re focusing on this one play. I didn’t think about after it happen. I started reading all my tweets after the game and said oh no they’re making a big deal about that dunk. He showboated a little. Who cares? In the NFL after almost every play you have some player jumping up and running around like he just did something great. JaVale had some fun and there is nothing wrong with that. Give me a break. People won’t have to worry about getting rid of McGee because the first chance he gets he walking out of DC.
by Kryp on Jan 17, 2012 9:44 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed but it's not only us. TNT, ESPN and Yahoo! having a field day mocking Javale and the Wizards
Wade and Lebronda do this kind of stuff all the time but A. they are winning and B. they don’t have a dumb and dumber reputation.
Javale didn’t do anything to bad, but he should have known this was not the best thing to do given the context of himself and the Wizards as a franchise.
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 17, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
when they make circus plays
they have awareness of each other and their teammates. Both Dwyane and LeBron are point guards playing out of position if you want to call it that way. We make circus plays for the sake of making them. They make such plays and know where their teammates will be when they throw a lob pass.
oh come on, both Wade and Lebron make circus dunks when they dont need to
double-clutching a dunk happens all the time as do mini-windmills….what javale did may be easier than those
I think JaVale's dunk is at least as hard as a double clutch
throwing a ball off the backboard also adds more uncertainty because the ball leaves the hands before the dunk.
but I get that because JaVale has freak athleticism
he could be able to do many hard dunks very easily too.
I don't get the dunk problem one little bit
Who cares if we’re 1-11. I’m a season ticketholder and haven’t had hardly anything whatsoever to be excited about. If Javale is able to do something that gets me and my kid excited for a few minutes during a pathetic season, than maybe it helps make up for all that cash I’m shelling out to watch a horrific basketball team.
He made the dunk. Who cares. If he had laid it up we still lose by the EXACT SAME MARGIN! I’m happy he did something flashy to give the fans something back. All the purists can shove it in my opinion. Flip is way too uptight and is DEFINITELY NOT the kind of coach that can gel with this particular team. He’s gotta go, let Sam finish out the year.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Jan 17, 2012 10:20 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Also, he's the ONLY guy on the team that looks like he improved over the lockout.
Cut the man some slack. This is definitely not the thing to jump a guy about, especially the most improved guy on the team. He’s been lights out this season and a joy to watch him taking the next step. Seriously Flip? For Javale, that was a relatively low degree difficulty dunk anyway. A simply lob off the backboard and flush it away. If he would’ve failed taking off from the free throw line it would be one thing, but that dunk is almost as simple as a layup for him.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Jan 17, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i dont think he should have done it, but basically agree with you anyway
and it’s funny because i noticed how many kids got a kick out of it and then i thought “hell why not, he made it.” And it pumped up the crowd.
going to all these games you see SO MUCH horrific play…it’s hard to get worked up about a successful dunk
I like being entertained as much as anyone else
and with the season going the way it has, I love that JaVale is significantly improved this season over last. I love that he’s putting up nice numbers this year. and I love seeing some flash and seeing my team on SC Top 10 and I like that guys are still trying to have some fun out there. But you know what is the most fun? Winning a damn game. Now the team sucks, but we do have one win, and odds are we will win another game. We all know JVM is capable of eye-popping wow plays. Why not save one of those for one of those games where we are winning/are not down by double digits? It’s always a better highlight when the team actually wins. If he would of just thrown it down like normal this rather silly conversation would not be happening. JaVale’s been in the league for 4 years. He knows he has a rep for flash over substance. He’s got to. Why add fuel to that fire? Especially when he’s been playing so much better this season?
by Ron Carlos Jeines on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It was a close game
I think that dunk brough them back to within six? What if instead of killing the guy for making an entertaining dunk, the team fed off the hustle that caused it and the energy in the arena caused by it and locked down? Then, it might have come in a win…
When you are losing this much, you can’t wait to be up 15
I agree the dunk should not be causing this much of a locker room/fan base divide
but everyone knows that show-boating when you’re losing is kind of lame. Show boating when you’re winning is dickish. If he didn’t self alley oop it, we wouldn’t be having this silly conversation. That’s really all this is about.
I’m done talking about this. I really hope this whole thing blows over soon.
by Ron Carlos Jeines on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
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