OKC Model Is a Fluke
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 12:01 AM EST
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Oklahoma City could have easily had to draft bum knees Oden if Portland drafted Durant. Teams thought Westbrook couldnt transition into a point guard. A team like Miami if they knew Westbrook could play the point would have loved to have him. Miami took Beasely #2 overall. Miami later traded him for a 2nd round pick. James Harden for a #3 overall pick isnt that good and is still coming off the bench. They traded Jeff Green and are still talking about trading Westbrook. So if they actually trade Westbrook did the Thunder actually build through the draft. Some will bring up Ibaka and Collison. There are plenty of Ibakas and Collisons in the NBA.
Memphis did not really build through the draft. Outside of Mike Conley Jr. and Darrell Arthur the Grizzlies didnt draft any of their core. Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo were traded for on draft day. They technically were not drafted. Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph the Grizzlies best players weren't drafted either. Marc was traded for his brother and Zach Randolph was a free agent singing.
My point being the NBA is not a league where I believe the model of only building though the draft works. Veteran teams win championships. PERIOD. The last 21 NBA champions have all been veteran teams.
Not to mention just because you build through the draft especially in this day in age doesn't mean you can retain the studs you drafted. For every Durant that stays there are 20 Lebrons that leave.
Finally If you are going to build though the draft. The Wizards need to draft better. I am fine with them drafting Booker but, he is too short to play power forward. He is listed at 6'8 but in reality is more like 6'7 or 6'6. It was never more evident when Tyson Chandler dunked on Booker having at least 6 inches on Booker. He really needs to slim down more and play small forward. Wait but then you would have a log jam at Small Forward with Vesely and Singleton. Kevin Seraphin is not very good and I dont see him getting much better. For a 17th overall pick he probably turns into a poor mans Anderson Varejao at best.
Ted does not understand basketball. Building though the draft works in a sport like hockey because just like baseball their are true minor leagues and teams have "farm systems." Teams can groom their players and wait for their development. The D-league is not a true minor league because not every team has its own d- league team. Not the mention the competition in the D-league rivals top level basketball at your local YMCA. In the world today of AAU basketball and 1 and done players coming out of college fundamentals and basketball IQ seems to be missing from the majority of today's pro players. A true minor league would be great for so many players who leave early just to get a payday and aren't ready to play.
I will prove to you just how much the OKC model is a lot of luck and how they are moving away from building though the draft. People want to talk about Memphis building through the draft. They really haven't and I will prove this all to you after the jump
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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Aside from the hilarity . . . .
of “I will prove this after the jump”’ and then there is no jump, you make an arugment worth listening to. But for all the guys like you (but not as thoughtful), you fail to give some concrete idea of how it could be done. There are lots of guys posting on these boards who are shopping Rashard and N’Diaye for Durant and Westbrook, and who are willing to throw in a (protected) 2nd round pick if that’s what it takes to get OKC to pull the trigger. I would be interested to read a realistic scenario of trades and free agent signings that transforms the Wiz into a good team. By realistic I mean: a) trades that the other team might really want to make, and b) signings of free agents who might really be willing to come to the Wiz.
by jmuravchik on Jan 10, 2012 6:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
ESPN trade machine can pull a lot of legal, but unrealistic trades
there is a reason why trades do not happen left and right every day through the deadline in this league.
To get someone good, you have to give up someone or some other asset that is good.
I never said a thing about trading rashard for durant. Learn to read. I never said anything about what trades the wizards should make. My point was simply the strategy of building though the draft doesn’t work in the NBA.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
he didn't say you did
he meant that a lot of people come up with unrealistic or general solutions to our problems. He wants something realistic and thought out, rather than a summary of our already well documented shit-show.
Great point about Oden! Where would the OKC model be if Durant was in Portland
Question #2: Is Westbrook really good because he is playing with Durant? Or is he that good “despite” Durant?
I think Westbrook needs to be a #1 on his own team. He obviously is not comfortable playing a sidekick role to Durant.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
He will never win anything if the is the best player on his team.
If he is mad because he isn’t getting enough recognition or respect as Durant, he needs to realize it’s because he, like most NBA players, is no where near as good as Durant. He is lucky to have Durant on his team.
Skins rule
by Horcasitas4 on Jan 11, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it’s really awkward the amount of times okc has an offensive possession without durant touching the ball each game. I can’t believe they let that happen. He should touch it at least once every time. Westbrook plays with crawford-like selfishness sometimes, except westbrook makes his shots.
They need to trade him for someone like wall, which is someone that doesn’t mind taking shots but will start the possesion with a pass(unless his team shoots 33% and he feels like he needs to be a hero).
Or westbrook for just a veteran pg that can get him the ball in good spots coupled with a low post scorer. They’re kinda in a tough spot. It’ll be hard to fill their needs while also getting proper value for westbrook’s talents.
Charles Barkley is a on the 50 greatest NBA Player. Trevor Booker won’t be a 50 greatest reserve. You are comparing apples and plums.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
memphis did not build through the draft because they traded for marc gasol and oj mayo?
i think they traded pau gasol, whom they drafted, and kevin love, whom they drafted, for those guys. (why do i take the time?)
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 10, 2012 11:38 AM EST reply actions
Yeah last time i checked trades aren’t draft picks. Yeah the Grizzlies had no success with Paul Gasol. So the current team that so many people here on this website and in the media say built through the draft has two actual draft picks that are contributors on their team
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
The OKC model is the aggresive use of cap space to obtain pick and assets.
They didn’t invent building through the draft, and they are not puritans about it. Perkins, Sefolosha, Maynor and Cook are all additions by trade.
by djnnnou on Jan 10, 2012 11:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
thats excactly the point I am making. So many people on this website talk about how the Wizards need to continue to plan which is building through the draft like OKC. My point is that OKC hasn’t only built through the draft.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
of course, gregjohnson,
you didn’t say anything about Rashard and Durant. I was ridiculing unrealistic trades that are often posted here. But I still offer the challenge to you or anyone else who is strongly against Ted’s plan of building through the draft to offer a realistic alternative plan. There is no point in splitting hairs about what OKC or Memphis did or didn’t do. Are there realistic trades or signings out there for the Wiz that would constitute an alternative scenario for how the Wiz could become a good NBA team?
I did checkout my post about the suns possibly being a team that could help the Wizards be better.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Is that you man? I hope you already had that pic handy and didnt take the time to that just to respond to me. I know I am splitting hair but still they weren’t drafted. That is why when you look at any draft if the player was traded in ( ) it says traded to _.
by gregjohnson1229 on Jan 10, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Stop it. You’re embarassing yourself. Redirecting other assets to gain picks is an integral part of nearly any building through the draft model. (No, this isnt shtick. Really. Stop it)
That is why when you look at any draft if the player was traded in ( ) it says traded to _.
No. They write up drafts like that so you can quickly tell why team X might not have had a 1st round draft pick that year or why team Y, that made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, ended up with a top10 pick.
And in closing… Stop it.
VOID!!!
sorry dude
but using logic guys like Booker, Seraphin, N’diaye weren’t drafted by us either because they were also traded on draft day…
fluke… no, too harsh
a perfect storm of just the right players coming out at the right time and them being in the right position to grab them… yes
VOID!!!
Either way, I agree with the OP it's not a 'model' that can be replicated
especially not if you settle for mid to late first rounders to be the Westbrook, Green and Harden to our Durant (Wall). You can’t count on drafting a Durant in the first place and Wall hasn’t shown he can be a top 10 player so far. On top of that OKC traded Green for Perkins
Who won? Who lost? Who cares?! The NBA is Back! - David Aldridge
What seems to be the officer, problem? - Randy Marsh
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 11, 2012 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
Where would we be getting mid to late first rounders (or is that in reference to seraphin, booker, etc etc?? ) this team is looking at drafting 3-8 for at least the next 2 years.
It can definitely be replicated. It’s not easy but it can be done…
- you MUST hit on at least 3 drafts in the course of 4 years
- you can not get too good too quickly. Definitely not a problem we are running into (yet). If anything picking up that 1A piece like Durant/Wall in the 1st year of the rebuild can hurt you because you miss out on pickingup sidekicks in follow up drafts and get stuck in the nba limo of consistently picking 12-20 (see James, Lebron)
- Your margin for error is slim to none and we already have 2 possible problems with wall not being the 1A piece we had hoped and Vesely being Vesely.
VOID!!!
i mean, does it have to work exactly the way OKC did it?
the point is to build through the draft. if you sign a free agent or make a beneficial trade on top of that, great, but the foundation is the draft.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jan 11, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
If Wall is not the top dog we hoped, the OkC "model" is on its last gasps already
because we’re needing to land a franchise player in the upcoming draft, a draft with no clear cut #1 emerging.
of course the idea could be we win 20 games next season too and look to the next draft as another building block, but then the team has been in cellar for years and all sorts of tangential problems will have arisen (coaches/gm’s fired, players wanting to leave, etc)
Ted has to be ready to open up his fat wallet sooner than he’d hoped imo
Did people forget that the SA Spurs were the poster children for build through the draft?
OKC traded on draft day for freshly drafted rookies (As near as makes no difference to drafting them) and as pointed out earlier, pursued aggressive use of cap space. Drafts aren’t guaranteed to land dominant players but you can’t hide behind that as a reason to say it doesn’t work. Fear of the unknown is fantastic way to hide behind the fact that a point isn’t actually being made because it appeals to people’s loss-averse nature.
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