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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

2011 NBA Draft News: Chad Ford's Latest Mock Draft, And More

A couple quick NBA Draft updates, beyond Chad Ford's lines in his chat about the possibility of the Timberwolves being "intrigued" by trading the No. 2 pick for JaVale McGee. (Speaking of, keep in mind that a) it's a rumor, and b) Ford said "I think" before it, which means it's possible there's some guess-work happening.  Ford's pretty plugged in, though, and I doubt he'd pass something along if there wasn't any truth to it).

First, Ford came out with his latest mock draft, and he has the Wizards selecting Kawhi Leonard at No. 6 and Marshon Brooks at No. 18.  I'm guessing the fact that Leonard was in for a workout yesterday and Brooks is in today was not a coincidence in that decision.  Also, in his chat, Ford said Leonard got "great feedback" from his workout yesterday and is a "strong possibility" at No. 6.  I got the sense that he did well too.

Meanwhile, the Wizards' brass is heading over to Italy this weekend to watch the Adidas Eurocamp in Treviso, where they'll get a good look at guys like Jonas Valanciunas, Jan Vesely and Bismack Biyombo.  Here's what's interesting, though.  According to Jonathan Givony of Draft Express, the Wizards have joined Toronto and Utah to watch Jan Vesely in the Serbian League Finals prior to the camp.  (As to who, specifically, my understanding is Ernie Grunfeld is back here watching the workouts at Verizon Center and assistant GM Tommy Sheppard is in Italy.  Also, Michael Lee says we should "keep an eye" on the Vesely thing).  Tomorrow, five teams (Toronto, Detroit, Utah, Charlotte and Golden State) are going to Spain to watch Bismack Biyombo conduct a private workout, but Washington is not among them, according to Givony

That's a bit odd.  Of course, the Wizards, and everyone else, will see Biyombo at the camp.  But maybe this means something.

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one pick at 18 we'll regret not picking

even though it’s a reach….

The top HS player each year by most ratings services has panned out every time, including the doubters who were surprised by Brandon Jennings a few years ago.

Since the Wiz have a young team, I believe they should reach and get Jeremy Tyler in that spot, even thought he’s projected at 28 or so. The 18 spot is a total crapshoot anyway, so I say get that top ranked guy out of HS since he’s still getting bigger at 6’9" and 242….He is the one Ernie will regret if he doesn’t surprise many – look at that trend Ernie, look at that trend…

"firegary, go sit under the basket at one of FCHS's games next year so...
Seth can flush one right down your throat you little trouble making hatin’ weasel…"

by bball purist on Jun 8, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

referring to this
The top HS player each year by most ratings services has panned out every time, including the doubters who were surprised by Brandon Jennings a few years ago.

by DavidDunn on Jun 8, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greg Oden too...

not that his story has been that much better than Kwames

by Jeremiah Hewitt on Jun 8, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a huge difference between taking a player @ #1--or any lottery pick for that matter

than drafting someone @ #18—especially when you already have a selection at #6. I like the idea of drafting a moderate-risk player, moderate reward(Kawhi Leonard or Chris Singleton) and then taking a high-risk, high-reward player with the other pick. The higher you pick a player the higher the risk, especially if you pass on NBA ready guys because you think a player has the potential to become an impact player.

I think 18 is a great place to draft Jeremy Tyler…I think he has the athleticism to play PF in this league. He has good size, and I think has the chance to develop into an upper-echelon power forward. It all depends on him. Some people point to Andray Blatche as the sole reason we shouldn’t draft this guy, saying Blatche will force his ways onto and into Jeremy like some kind of parasite…I say if anything Jeremy will see what becomes of all-star level talent that doesn’t work hard(if indeed Blatche is lazy. This year is his defining season in my mind. If he doesn’t put together a complete year, then my time as a long time supporter and fan of his is over), and it will motivate him.

by tw10 on Jun 9, 2011 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont feel draft position matters so much

There is a difference in salary commitment between the #1, #20, #40 and #60 picks, but it is less than the MLE ($5mm or so per season) and is not a huge burden if you miss.

What matters more than the position slot are the players themselves and the opportunity cost. If you are taking a flyer on a superstar prospect, what other players are you passing up. How does your prospect compare to these guys. What are their likely floors? ceilings? how much “developing” effort do they need on their part to become a solid starter? how much “developing” effort on their part do they need to reach their potential? how long should it take? can it occur in the first contract? where do you project them to be four/five years out when it is time to sign their second contract? How likely are they to develop? what type of development is needed (physical, skills, mental, emotional, bball IQ, etc), how do their intangibles compare (motor, effort, diet, desire, lifestyle, etc). What is available in free agency? How much do they cost? What do you already have on your roster? what are your other financial commitments? etc, etc, etc

You compare players to the other players available and have some semblance how their profile fits in historically. The actual draft slot is close to the bottom of the list, especially since they will be a relatively inexpensive investment. You take a flyer on potential when it is inexpensive if you are wrong and the opportunity cost is low.

In our situation, we need everything but a starting point guard. With so many other needs, it really does not make any sense in our situation to acquire another point guard. We have prospects at other positions to varying degrees but they all have their story.

Some examples::

For example, generally speaking in this draft the profiles go something like this: a few solid prospects none with superstar visibility. DW is the only likely solid starter with good visibility he will be good at a position of need for us. Then there are about a half dozen guys or so that might evolve into solid starters. Then there are about 25 guys are projected to be solid role players. Then there are the rest. That is my interpretation of this draft listening to several sources. If you disagree with that assessment, dont miss my bigger point. It is my base assumption.

So at #6, we are on the bubble. We might get a solid starter prospect (Jonas V, Biyombo, Kanter, etc) or we might be in solid role player land (Leonard, Singletone, etc). You need stars to win. So you should shoot for a star prospect when the opportunity cost is lowest. This is a great draft to take a flyer on a prospect. You are not passing up on a Shane Battier level talent to pick a Yi (both #6 picks I think).

Yi last year was inexpensive with potential. He was still on his rookie contract. He was dirt cheap. He was a good flyer. But for next season at the QO, he is not the same prospect. And is not worth the investment. I think most people recognize that.

Somewhere are the MLE level salary is where I draw the line on a prospect. It is also about what the #1 pick in the draft is paid. And why should any prospect be given more than what the top prospect of the year makes? It starts to really hurt your cap flexibility. Hence, Yi is no longer a prospect for us. He can be resigned cheap not at the level his contract calls for. AB should have been resigned the first time when it was inexpensive. But it was premature to resign him last summer. It was better to let him play out this season and see what happened. Ernie tried to save a couple million dollars per season by resigning him early and it will cost us many more millions for an overpaid backup on a team that needs starters.

JVM is the interesting one because he is on his last year. I dont want to get into all his potential. I know it. He ismt there yet bottom line. And he will command a salary next year- based on his potential- north of the MLE and probably in the $8-12mm range. That is too much for a prospect still developing after four years in the league. It is better to move on and build the pieces we need. And try to land him as a developed player at a crazy salary when we are adding that final piece to make a run- like Dallas did with Chandler.

Hence, in this draft, which is considered weak in top level prospects. I feel you make a move for one or some of them- because the opportunity cost is low. You are not passing up on a solid, well rounded starter. I would trade JVM for #2 and #20 if I could secure Williams only.

As for the rest, you have to kick the tires and figure out floor, ceilings, likelihood to develop, all the stuff I mentioned earlier.

at 6, Burks could be a star, biyombo is interesting, kanter could play some center, and jonas wiill likely develop into a solid center.

at 18 and 20- you could go with a role player on the wing (harris) or frontcourt (vucevic) or another solid prospect like Jeremy. He is reflective and interviewed well. I am tempted to do one of each, but it is hard to say without knowing who is available.

In this draft, I would look to make that trade and come out of this draft with the top overall prospect likely to develop at a need position (Williams), two upside prospects (a harris, burks, biyombo, tyler), and a role player/solid starter (kanter, jonas, singleton, vucevik, leonard, etc).

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I reposted this response as a fan shot bec it was too long. If anyone knows how to delete this comment, please help me out =) thanks

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude!! that's to long to read man

recap please

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 9, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I realized after i posted, but I cant delete it =(

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even Kwame found a niche in this league

as a low post defender. At the same time, he was the very first to be in his position as the 1st guy to be a 1st pick in the NBA draft out of high school. From hindsight, he could have went to college and it’s possible he could have been an even better player when he came out, but things are what they are.

by thewiz06 on Jun 9, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

At 18?!?

I would buy a pick in the 20s for him.

Brooks is a great prospect at 18 IMO.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on Jun 8, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah strainge isnt it... But both he and Curry (Evans too but he was injured) had a bit of a sophomore slump

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 8, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Evans also played a lot of 2 gaurd. I really want to see him back at the point...

I love him and Marcus Thornton in the backcourt. Reke’s size is a nightmare for other point guard’s, they need to keep him there. Marcus is a combo guard and playing next to a big point like Reke is perfect. He can guard the quicker opposing point guards…Im pretty sure he has the lateral quickness to do that. I would love to see a trio of Reke, MT23, and DeMarcus for years to come. Hopefully one of their young wings emerge…Donte Greene and Casspi have talent and the skills(Donte is a good 3pt shooter/Casspi is better, Donte is a good defender/Casspi not so much, Casspi has impressive bounce/same with Donte)necessary to be starting 3’s in this league, they just need to put it all together and play smart.

by tw10 on Jun 9, 2011 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

The 18 spot is definitely NOT a "total crapshoot"

Year after year countless gems are found at or around that pick and also while there are no clear stars in this draft, you will definitely find a potential rotation guy at 18:

-Markieff Morris, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Kyle Singler, Honeycutt, etc.

Wiz can also use a back-up PG and in past drafts guys like Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague, Eric Myanor, Darren Collison all went past 18. Or a Taj Gibson, Dante Cunningham, Darrell Arthur, Serge Ibaka

I’m just saying now isn’t the time to reach so extreme. Tyler is a projected 2nd round pick anyway. I don’t know a lot about him but if JaVale is traded (hopefully not), maybe thats a guy the Wiz can look at early in the 2nd.

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Jun 8, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tyler is a projected 2nd round pick anyway. I don’t know a lot about him but if JaVale is traded (hopefully not), maybe thats a guy the Wiz can look at early in the 2nd.

Tyler will go in the FIRST round. His interviews went extremely well. He tested out very high on the athletic tests. AND, he would have been a lottery pick had he stayed and played College in the US.

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on Jun 8, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taylor is 6’9" without shoes. He is def a small center at best.

by les boulez bomber on Jun 8, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, in that case

Mark me down as a solid No.

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Jun 8, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tyler will probably (imho) go higher than Vucevik

He measures out better than any other Big in this draft and judging from available vids he’s got a real nice skillset. Now that he’s apparently impressing GMs with his attitude and whatnot it’s going to be tough to take a lower ceiling player like Vucevik ahead of him

by DCrez on Jun 8, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kahn is grasping through leaks

but it is good to know they are willing to trade…

by DavidDunn on Jun 8, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I know those DX videos are from like 1 1/2 years ago,

but Kanter’s defense looks GOD AWFUL in those clips. I’m a Blatche fan, but in fact, Kanter’s defense looks Blatche-esque. Wasn’t bending his knees, wasn’t boxing out, wasn’t really giving a good effort on rotations, wasn’t contesting shots, and goes up for rebounds with one hand. Looked like he didn’t even care out there. He was letting scrubs get the best of him. Those clips were discouraging.

But he gave a much better effort defensively in the U-18 Championships and the Nike Hoop Summit. Maybe it was just the environment. But hopefully he’s matured. If we’re really interested in him, we don’t need another talented big that doesn’t play a lick of defense.

by iNFaMOUS SwaGG on Jun 8, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can't ignore Marshon Brooks Stats. Wow!

24.6 points and 7 rebounds a game.
That is downright excellent.

by jmpalomo on Jun 8, 2011 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep. No doubt he can score in the NBA

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 8, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the WIzards can get Brooks at 18...

They would be well advised to do so. I suspect he will go higher tho.

by khrabb on Jun 8, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only knock I can see on Marshon is that he has spent the past 4 years with a losing program

So people may be a little suspicious as to whether he can play within a team as that concept may be foreign to him. If he knows how to be an effective player without having the ball in his hands, I definitely say we snatch him up at 18.

I’ve read a couple of articles floating around the internet comparing Marshon to a young Kobe, not so sure about that but would love to be proven wrong.

by TheRealBigMike on Jun 8, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's such a foolish reason to dislike a player

It’s not his fault his teammates suck. Brooks is exactly the player the Wizards need. It’s yet to be seen if John Wall can be a dominant scorer, and I think Brooks will take a lot of the pressure off of Wall to be the only creator on offense. I’m really hoping the Wizards take him.

by zl on Jun 8, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that Marshon has potential to be great

But it also helps to know how to win games, or at least knowing what has to be done in order to win games. One thing that is noteworthy when looking at the team records from when Marshon was at Providence, the team never really showed much improvement. There are a lot of factors that could contribute to that, and it’s almost impossible to put that all on one person, But you also have to take into consideration as to whether a player is comfortable being on a losing team as long as he gets his stats or if he is truly committed to winning. That is what really made John Wall stand out to me as a prospect last year.

by TheRealBigMike on Jun 9, 2011 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've never really bought the "knowing how to win" concept

I mean, the way you win basketball games is to score more points than your opponents do. If Brooks isn’t a winner, we should be able to point to the hole in his game that explains it (bad D? bad passer? etc.)

I mean, everyone said Garnett wasn’t a winner in Minnesota, even though his game had few to no holes. It turned out that his teammates just sucked.

I haven’t seen a minute of Brooks’ games, so I’m willing to be convinced that he’s flawed in some way, but if there aren’t obvious issues with his game I think there’s a 95% chance that everyone else on PC was bad at basketball (and the Big East has been a strong conference during his stint there).

by obeast on Jun 9, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's truncated. The full phrase would be "knowing how to win close games."

That’s about being able to deal with pressure, avoid stupid mistakes, etc., and it’s a real skill, at least in my opinion.

Remember when the Wiz blew a bunch of close games this season? Couldn’t hold onto small leads in the closing seconds? Like that.

by yop32 on Jun 9, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed, but that’s an example of a specific flaw in his game. Is there evidence that he plays consistently worse at the end of games? I feel like I remember PC just getting massacred in a lot of games last year.

by obeast on Jun 9, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mike

Please spell out what you are thinking a bit more. You are hinting that things are interesting, but I have no idea why. Please elaborate for those of us dizzied by all the trade rumors in this weakest of drafts concerning the team we all root for that won 23 games last year.

Not watching BigMac …. interesting!

A bunch of teams are watching Vesely … interesting!

And why is that?

by Unselds on Jun 8, 2011 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s bunk. You get the chance to meet the kid and learn about him. And people claim it is not important. I think the overall success record in the NBA draft clearly shows they dont know these kids well enough because they have a very lousy track record at projecting who will and will not develop. It is laughable to suggest it is not important to meet them and evaluate them in different settings live both on and off the court. The bust rate is so high. I feel they are just covering their asses.

by les boulez bomber on Jun 8, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

And teams like Phoenix and New Orleans have just ditched workouts entirely

In fact, the Wizards are holding far more individual workouts than most teams.

Draft experts tend to think that workouts can hurt you sometimes because you skirt on your film work/interviews/due diligence until then and try to make it all up at the end, which is an even worse strategy.

by Mike Prada on Jun 8, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

A workout is just a small sample size that can easily give teams the wrong idea about a player. It’s much smarter to look at a person’s body of work and give very little credence to a short period of evaluation

by zl on Jun 8, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

but when you are talking about players like Vesely, Biyombo

or let’s say….Keveen Seraphin…there isnt much body or work to look at. Draft them without meeting them and you end up taking a 6’8" overweight Center with the 17th pick

by DCrez on Jun 8, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's true

when it comes to relatively unknown players with little to evaluate, a workout is certainly much more important. But the things that should be evaluated during a workout should be things that would remain relatively constant regardless of whether or not the player is having a off day shooting the ball, for example

by zl on Jun 8, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's plenty of tape on Vesely

He’s 21 and has been playing high-level Euro ball for a long time.

by Mike Prada on Jun 9, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

but he is still a horrible shooter and more importantly to me, has really bad hands. I have not seen players develop the ability to catch the ball over their career. If they are clumsy like that, they tend to stay that way. Do you have an example of someone who did develop?

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. And I am not in a good position to know his true prospects.

Do you like him for us at #6? Who do you like at that spot?

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont even think those two are catching the same type of passes. But I think the odds lie in that most dont improve enough- BH excepted.

by les boulez bomber on Jun 9, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great! I thought it was odd and a mistake not to be there. .

by les boulez bomber on Jun 8, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Vesely actually going to participate in EuroCamp? I read he was only going to do an individual workout in New York for any teams who wanted to attend, and that would be his only workout.

by ChewinStraws on Jun 8, 2011 6:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I Believe

I think that’s true, which is why the scouts are over in Serbia watching him play against live competition. 10 pts 4 rebs in his last game and 13 pts and 5 rebs the game prior, although he was just 1-6 from FT.

by SpecialSauce on Jun 8, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just saw footage of Marshawn Brooks during Wiz workouts

Have to say I saw a little bit of Kobe Bryant in him. He rubbed some GM’s the wrong way, but I doubt he is available at 18 and I am also officially on the bandwagon. Even though Jeremy Lamb will be the best SG prospect when he declares.

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Jun 8, 2011 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Jeremy Lamb is a twig.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on Jun 8, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

Jeremy Lamb is a twig Beast. Please don’t get me started

I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB

by qthaballa on Jun 8, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

KD is a twig too. haha

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on Jun 8, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

But a good twig at that.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on Jun 8, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

twigs that are great at shooting are different

KD may be Gumby, but he can shoot. Lamb can’t really, so you’re stuck with hoping that he can get strong or good in the don’t-piss-Wall-off-so-much-that-he-leaves-when-his-rookie-window-expires window. That’s risky.

by obeast on Jun 9, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

<a href="http://" >

by Copious 1 on Jun 8, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh? ^^^

But me too.

TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol

by Krobify on Jun 9, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

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