The Courtship of David Kahn or The Rebuild is Complete, Part Deux
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
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PrintWell, Minnesota wants a veteran big man. The Wizards and Suns are going head to head. So we'll start with what we have to offer the Timberwolves.
I'm with the 'hell, no' crowd about trading Javale McGee in this situation. Minnesota doesn't have the value to trade back outside of Kevin Love (Michael Beasley, anyone? ...if you nodded, go sit in the corner), and no other big man qualifies for their wishlist outside of Andray Blatche. Remember, Minnesota snapped up Anthony Randolph, and if they see Blatche duplicating his skill set, his trade value is that of an albatross. Yes, the dead kind.
Now, les boulez bomber made a good point about our draft position veritably guaranteeing Alec Burks, should Minnesota want him. With Andray Blatche's trade value being such a question mark, let's assume Martell Webster is definitely coming back. That means Wesley Johnson can stop playing out of position and backup Beasley at SF. Some are interested in offering up Jordan Crawford and have been banned from the site. But seriously, does no one see any parallels between this guy and Jose Barea? Barea's been huge for the Mavericks this postseason, and Crawford plays with the same furious energy on defense, as well. John Wall, Jordan Crawford, and Nick Young can form the nucleus of a contender backcourt and going after one bird in the bush when you've got one in your hand is not the way to build a championship team, even if the other bird is a power forward with a sweet stroke. And don't forget a dash of Othyus Jeffers, love that guy.
So, right now, the Wizards' bid as I see it, stacks up as Andray Blatche, the #6 pick, taking back Martell Webster, and possibly offering up the #34, or next year's second. As my grandmother knows, Minnesota is looking to trade or sell the #20, so we'll assume the #18 has no value, unless they believe they can package the two to the Bobcats for the #9. Though of course to do that, they'd probably need to take on salary, which is the opposite of their apparent goals.
Suns are up next, and they likely have the edge in every respect but draft position. It wasn't long ago down here in Phoenix that Robin Lopez was being hailed as the savior at Center. With Lopez holding down C with Amare Stoudemire at PF, the Finals finally seemed within reach. Fate being what she is, Lopez suffered a debilitating back injury that probably should have ended his career. Phoenix's cadre of warlocks, I mean medical staff, has him playing again with a severe limitation. Fropez must, at this point, use his body core rather than his back muscles to move, jump, etc. It's somewhere between brushing your teeth with your off hand and driving with your head duct taped to the steering wheel. He can still be effective, but needs a playmaker (cough cough, Steve Nash) to thrive. The Timberwolves could easily bet Ricky Rubio is that guy. Rebounding is a concern, they are the Lopez brothers, but Kevin Love can grab enough rebounds for any two frontcourt players, and Lopez isn't nearly that bad.
Besides the stellar acquisition of Hedo Turkoglu (which has worked out, amazingly), Phoenix also signed Josh Childress for money the Wizards wouldn't consider. Remember how we talked about mid level signings crippling your flexibility when the guy doesn't work out? Childress has been inconsistent, to say the least, but even that might work out for Phoenix in a Minnesota trade. While the Suns would be loath to trade out Chilly's unwieldy contract for Webster's, it makes a significant inducement for the Timberwolves.
So, a likely Suns bid entails Robin Lopez, Josh Childress, the #13 pick, and taking on Martell Webster. They may also want a backup PG a la Luke Ridnour or Jonny Flynn, as last year's late season experiment with Aaron Brooks added little. And should Minny acquire the #13, that Bobcats scenario might involve the #13 and #20 for the #9 and a lesser contract, and they still acquire Alec Burks.
Should all of that fall into place with Phoenix and Charlotte, the T-wolves would end up looking like this:
PG: Ricky Rubio and Luke Ridnour/Jonny Flynn
SG: Josh Childress and Alec Burks
SF: Michael Beasley and Wesley Johnson
PF: Kevin Love and Anthony Randolph
C: Robin Lopez and Darko Milcic
And they end up with Wayne Ellington, Sebastian Telfair, Lazar Hayward, and Anthony Tolliver soaking up garbage minutes. It's probably not enough to make the playoffs in a tough Western Conference, but far more cohesive than the current mess. There's another rumor that Minny wants a star player to bring in for Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio to play with (no love for the Beas?), but there likely isn't a team willing to part with one in this weak a draft. Unless the Kings decide to send over Tyreke Evans, but that's too crazy, even for me.
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Sounds like they are looking for a center
I dont think the Wiz have anything to offer without giving up a player that we need just as much. Would be nice if we could offer Blatche up, but dont think he is all that coveted by other teams…
Blatche ????
People keep screaming blatche imagine blatche goin to orlando and being and peice with Dwight I define think that would work….a knew scenary can change someone ethic…..and I bet u knobody on the wiz can check blatche they see that at practice that’s why he still here….
by H.A.2.F on Jun 3, 2011 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They did
It’s called Red Bull King of the Rock…1 on 1 64 man tourney held on Alcatraz. I shit you not.
oh yeah
So I guess this post takes us out the equation un less they will to pay rashad lewis and they will have another beasly on hand….
by H.A.2.F on Jun 3, 2011 11:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think Phoenix has the edge
Depends on how much they’re willing to give up, also how much Minny figures their pick is worth. We at least have the advantage of being out of the WC
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Crazy how they went from not having a legitimate center to having two guys who are at least passable starters.
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by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 3, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
on paper, but in practice I dont think they trade Gortat to move up. If that were the case, the deal would be done already, imho. That will leave them without a starting center. Lopez can not put in the minutes they need apparently. And Marcin is on a decent contract for many years.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
so they have the player for sure. but i question the will to trade that player for #2
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder whether Kahn is telling the truth
about what he wants. If he says, “veteran big man,” then maybe he can drive up the value of the pick by comparing the offers (all of which would be leaked by someone in his office, btw). Looking at the draft board, Jonny V would be the best prospect/fit for his team. But Kahn is probably thinking that 2 is too high for Valanciunas, so he’s trying to trade down and get some extra value out of it.
Wouldn't be surprised he wants to trade down, all about maintaining perception of that pick's trade value
but nobody likes to waste lottery picks like David Kahn
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
This implies to me (again, we all know this, but it bears repeating) that this draft kind of sucks. Kahn could draft Williams, but he’s not confident that he’s a starter at the 3 or 4 and may in fact be a bust. Kahn could draft Kanter to play center, but he might be horrible playing next to Love and may not have the ability to play full-time at center anyway. And now that Kahn has Rubio, he doesn’t need any of the decent point guard prospects. So he tries to trade down and see if he can scam players like Millsap or Sideshow Bob from the lower lotto teams.
The lesson for us may be to stay at 6 and see how it pans out, since the teams in front of us may not be too enthusiastic about their prospects, either.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we have to. I am not sure there will be a top five pick trade before draft night. Williams could and should go #1 and screw up everyone’s plans.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were Ernie, I would tell them: if you can get gortat for #2, take him. and let’s talk about selling me that pick at #20. if not, lets start with #6 and #34 or would you prefer cash?
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy how unproductive Flynn and Johnson have been
The sixth and fourth picks from the last two drafts had a combined PER of 17.3 last year, with Flynn being arguably the worst defensive point guard in the league (I saw some stat to back this up a year ago).
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by pantslessyoda1 on Jun 3, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"nobody likes to waste lottery picks like David Kahn"
If David Kahn is such a miserable GM, what does it say about Ernie that Kahn suckered him into taking Miller and Foye for our 5th pick?
his mandate at the time was win now. but i would have drafted blair in the second round.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
His mandate was not to give away picks
for avg players. I agree that he was directed to find immediate help. He did a horrible job of it and believe it or not lots of people said so at the time.
agree on the execution. neither player is on the team. by definition, it was poor execution
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't blame Grunfeld for Blair
the Lakers took Sun Yen. Plenty of teams passed Blair over and some twice.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But then traded for Booker next season
so they are tied.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
the Wiz are up because Minny took Flynn. That trade didn’t work for any one.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats right
Rubio was no. 5. Maybe he will suck.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He will
but it’s horribly depressing to be in a close debate over whether or not we’re doing a better job than Kahn.
by Jim America on Jun 3, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bah
We have Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin, and Jordan Crawford. They have Jonny Flynn. WE WIN.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and we have john wall
i mean it was possible that eg could have screwed it up and drafted turner, wall wasnt a 100% sure thing more like 95
by Young Wook Lee on Jun 3, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
That’s nothing anyone here will give him credit for…fan riot if that had happened…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks...needed that
Through subsequent moves, we definitely won. Pretty damn happy with the way the team has been run of late.
by Jim America on Jun 3, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It would be pretty glorious if he did...
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to see Rubio succeed
It’s more likely that he’ll flop (a la Juan Carlos Navarro), but I couldn’t begrudge the T-Wolves a little success, should it come their way. Those fans have suffered.
I wouldn't either...
but something about RR just sticks in my craw…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesn't look like a basketball player
he doesn’t sound like a basketball player. Rubio. If someone said the name Rubio, I would think he is either a either a European soccer star with a coke problem or or a heterosexually challenged male model from LA. And why is he leaving a good Spanish team in balmy Spain to live in that godforsaken Minnesota to play for a horrible basketball team?
by hambonejackson on Jun 4, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
because FC Barcelona was looking to upgrade at PG
at least that’s what Wilbon said on PTI the other day
Por que?
I think Rubio is pretty cool. Flip agrees:
“I think Rubio is going to be a better NBA player than a European player because it’s a much more open style of play, which is kind of his forte,” Saunders said. "Very, very good in the open floor, great passer. He’s going to have a couple of highlight passes every game.
“He’s a very exciting player to watch. He’s got to work on his perimeter shooting, very limited perimeter shooter. Defensively as far as being able to contain the ball, he’s got quick hands. He’ll get a lot of steals.”
From http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/123066683.html
22% 3PT shooter from the euro 3pt line (22ft vs 23'9" nba)
good luck, Minnesota.
Nothing too rational
I just don’t like him, illogically :p The way he handled his draft situation seemed either petulant, or comically short-sighted, and whichever you choose, seemed a poor indicator of his character, but perhaps that was just Dan Fegan.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 10, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I watch 'The Pistol' once a year
Gotta love blasphemy.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 10, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Was JCN a flop?
I thought he played really well then went back to Europe.
by MR on Jun 4, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i think he would have been a decent nba player, he's good
He’s levels above Rubio on their Spanish team, that’s for sure, often has more assists than Ricky while also leading team in scoring
As others have already said
It was a move to compete. I think you might have to pull out a few scenarios where EG would have gotten more perceived value out of that pick before the ‘suckered’ comment qualifies.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Kahn does not mention
just how much he is willing to pay for this big man. If Utah offered Jefferson and the 12th pick, would Kahn take on 13 mil+/yr?
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be hilarious
Seeing as how Utah traded them a 1st for Jefferson in the first place…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Bluffing !!!
I think Kahn is Bluffin he neva make the right moves I just think he trying to see what teams with throw out there maybe a successful team will jump out there with a veteran big who likes a young prospect will see…..
by H.A.2.F on Jun 3, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Doesn't every team want a veteran big?
even the teams with veteran bigs.
Yeah
which spawned the ‘shenanigans’ outcry
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
PHX makes the most sense if they are interested. And they have shown signs they could be: they dont have workouts scheduled as of yet. But Gortat is a big price to pay to trade up. He is a pretty good center and has a favorable contract. I didnt know about about Lopez, but if he is permamently hindered like you suggest, it is hard to trade your center. His body wont hold up to the minutes you need.
I think JC can be added to the list. As promising as he is, he will always be coming off the bench with us unless Wall grows another few inches. He is just too short to expect he could be a starting SG and defend that position. Barerra wasnt even drafted. Back up combo guards can be found.
Utah remains our best trading partner because they have a logjam in the front court and probably want to free up playing time for Favors. So we can take back a contract and a player. The wild card with them is if Knight will be available at #6?
So I dont know that Min will get that veteran center for this draft pick. And they are likely better off grabbing a center in FA after the new CBA comes out. There are some good ones to consider this year. And we might not be as far out of it as it appears.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
and Dallas might have to move Haywood to resign Chandler when the cap tightens up.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
JC isn't on the table fotmr mmm
by DavidDunn on Jun 3, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
JC isn't on the table for this trade. I guarantee it
They would force themselves into a corner with NY negotiations, jeopardizing the rebuild. I am not saying he is untouchable, omi am saying I think the timing precludes it.
by DavidDunn on Jun 3, 2011 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Blatche’s contract costs 10mm more than it should. I think there is room to overpay nick if we must to keep him. Nick is a 4-5mm per season player on a restricted contract heading into a new cba. Overpaying him cost 6-7mm. It should not factor into it but I think it was a good thing to consider! You make the 3.6mm qualifying offer and negotiate in good faith to see if he will accept a multiyear 4-5mm per year extension. if he doesnt, you match under 7mm.
JC has a lot to learn and develop for his great skill set to translate into wins for us consistently. But I dont think we will trade Blatche for that pick any ways!
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
New thought
- and Blatche for #17 and Landry Fields. Knicks get Blatche (with scenery change!) and Jimmer at 6. We get a starting SG to grow with Wall and get rid of Blatche’s contract (I know it’s not terrible but I’d rather not have it). Crawford becomes the perfect combo backup and we don’t have to overpay Nick Young under the new CBA. We have 17 and 18 to package or hope to nab good players who could fall: Tristan Thompson, Chris Singleton, etc.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions
that should say “#6 and Blatche for #17 and Landry Fields”… sorry. weird formatting there.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So now you want Landry Fields...
Don’t get me wrong – I like Landry Fields, and he had a nice Rookie season. He’s certainly cheap ($788,872 for this year) – and he’s a terrific rebounder for a guard.
BUT:
1. he’ll become an unrestricted Free Agent at the end of this year… so you’ll just have to pay him anyway.
2. He only averaged 9.7 points per game in Mike D’Antoni’s 7-seconds or less offense
3. He turns the ball over too much – although that should decrease as he gets more experience.
In that offense, Nick Young might average 30 points per game….
By trading for Fields, you are only postponing paying up to retain the Shooting Guard… So the question is, which guy fits better with the Wizards – and I think, because of Nick’s improving defense, and his familiarity with the system – he gets the advantage.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Fields isn't even 21 yet
so I might opt for Fields. He is closer to Walls age.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot of guys I want!
Because there are a lot of guys that this team can use. I know you’re a big Nick fan, Rook, and for good reason, but I really see him as a future 6th man and see Fields as a future starter. With Crawford already on board, and hopefully developing as a scorer, I would rather have the flexibility of bringing Fields’ skillset in. I think he will really blossom as we go into our hopeful playoff window.
There are a lot of players I’d want MORE than Landry Fields (including Derrick Williams), but I’d think the trade would make a lot of sense for us. I’m realizing that the Knicks probably wouldn’t do it, though.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
In addition to what Rook said
The Knicks are going after another superstar in the coming offseason. No way they commit to Blatche’s contract ESPECIALLY pre-labor deal
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So the Knicks would not trade Fields for Melo
But Blatche on the other hand ….
smh
by DavidDunn on Jun 3, 2011 12:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But Fields
Should be an unrestricted free agent after this year. Can they really afford to keep him with those other contracts on their team? It might make sense to dump him and lock up the Jimmer. I guess if that’s their logic, though, they probably don’t want Blatche.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The Knicks GM just resigned. Who knows what they want now?
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah.
That kinda throws a wrench into the “WE MUST HAVE JIMMER” basis of this trade (Blatche is a throw in here, not the main ingredient!)
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't see the Wiz trading a 6'11"-7'0 player
for a 3. If anything, the Wiz need another 6’11-7’0 player themselves. About the only “big” I can see the Wiz parting with is Booker. Then the team is swapping two 6’7" players. I am beginning to think the Wiz should sit tight and look for a possible BOYD. Even if the Wiz re-sign Young, they still have 4 slots to fill for their active roster and 3 picks. Maybe they should go for a 4th pick.
Booker??
Priority to keep
1. Wall
2. McGee
3. Young
4. Booker
5. Crawford
6. Blatche
7. Seraphin
8. Lewis
priority to keep?
Wall.
no one else is a priority. not just going to give guys away though unless they are names Blatche or Lewis.
by Staybon on Jun 3, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like Kanter more then Williams
so a Kanter/Booker swap is about how much potential I think Booker has.
Who would you rather have?
Booker or DWill? They basically play the same 3-4 position.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
with this teams makeup right now
Booker is the kind of player we need to have. Williams is going to to average 18 and 7, but he isn’t going to be the presence we need defensively that could compliment McGee…if McGee can get to the point we need him to be. I’m taking Booker and I’m definitely bias with that. Seeing Lebron run through people makes this easier for me b/c I want players who won’t get pushed around on the roster,
Are you kidding me? I'm not a big fan of Derrick because he is going to be a tweener...
But he’s a star. Booker is an energy player off the bench.
Booker played well in his starts
and in my opinion he has the potential to be a starter at the 4 for us
He will never be a starting 4
Players like Bosh and Nowitzki will simply shoot over him.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nowitzki can shoot every player in the NBA
there are starting 4s in the league that are 6’7 and hold their own. The coaches have to move around the matchups at times, but don’t tell b/c he can’t stop Dirk that it proves he can’t be a starter
EXACTLY
then no one in the NBA is a damn starter…impossibly high standard
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Booker is the same size as Haslem
and he started at the 4 for a championship winning team. Booker can start at the 4. Just can’t have an undersized center, too. This team got McGhee. I think they could be a good enough starting combo for now.
Haslem is listed at 6' 9"
Booker is not even 6’ 7"
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
they are both listed at 6'8.
obviously neither really is 6’8. But that’s what they both are listed as.
By who?
Haslem is obviously taller than Booker.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
his championship team
included SHAQ at center!!
McGee can’t hold down the paint the way Shaq did. He can jump around it though.
Good enough to make sure we get back to the lottery, yeah.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 3, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haslem is starting right now too
and I compared Booker and Haslem at draftexpress and Haslem is an inch and a half taller then Booker without shoes, Haslem has an extar inch of wingspan and standing reach, but Booker can jump 3 inches higher (no step and max). Its actually a good comparison.
both are undersized but make up for it in other ways
plus the intangibles they bring are the types that help make you a winning team – defense, hustle, hard nosed play, play within themselves.
Haslem is a role player on a 3.5mm salary. i love him cheap like that. but make no mistake, he is not a building block. he is a fill in piece for them. and miami is playing in the championship but their achilles heel is their interior defense!
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Haslem wouldn't start on a lot of teams
But a lot of teams don’t have Bosh at 4.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought James was the 1
and Chalmers James and Wades chauffer
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha- when james runs the point late in the fourth, they lose. wade should be running the offense then
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Wade said in the past
he doesn’t like playing the 1 position. James seems to enjoy it
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
didnt know that. i thought he was taking one for the team. james is not there for that role yet. at least he has not shown to be.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
in crunch time, he is the best they have
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
no one is arguing he's a building block
but he’s a winner. he has a winner’s mentality, work ethic and confidence. plus he knows what it takes from winning titles in high school to winning a ton at Florida to Miami. Shoot he probably won a lot his one year in Europe while he changed his body from flabby to ripped.
I agree
and D Williams is a completely different player, which is how all my Booker love came out. I don’t think D Williams is the star that you put next to Wall and build around. At least with Booker, I feel that he’s a piece that can stay with the team and be valuable once we get to competing for a championship.
Our first star happens to be a PG. Once that happens, the next piece to add is a star front court prospect. We dont know we have that and where we should look next. The SF is imp but is a later piece. Bigs take time to develop and right now, all our eggs are on JVM, which has underdeveloped so far. He has improved, but not like he should be in all areas of the game.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
D. Williams
isn’t that star that will work the best with Wall. Kanter would fit, but maybe he’s not that star quality player either. I think Grunfeld is trying to build a hard nosed blue collar team/mentality and find time to pinpoint the star that will put the blue collar team over the edge…ala Rasheed Wallace to a degree.
yes- but kanter can also help push AB/JVM. it will accelerate their development. and JVM has all star potential.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Why doesn't Wliliams work with Wall?
Speed, can play a power 3 to Blatche’s finesse 4. Blocks shots, loves up tempo and is a fierce competitor who makes big plays for his team in crunch time… He also shot really well from 3. I don’t see a mismatch with Wall, JaVale or Blatche.
its not that Williams won't fit with Wall
I think Kanter fits better with the current frontcourt and the Williams pick is seen as being a possible franchise player for some teams. Williams can be a solid starter, but the fact that he is getting built up to be a star makes me judge him tougher.
by DaGribb on Jun 3, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The one thing that makes me like Williams over Kanter
Is that we know for sure he can hit the 3. Even if the rest of his game doesn’t measure up, he’ll be able to fill a role on any decent team as a stretch 4.
Kanter as a stretch 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNK8siaYI7M (working out with Tim Grover) I like Williams if he’s going to be a 3 and Kanter as a 4/5.
I'd take either one on the Wizards.
especially if Blatche wasn’t there. shoot, i’d take neither and be happy if Blatche is gone.
Adding it all up
Kanter looks good shooting jumpers in an empty gym in an edited video, but I’ll take Williams’s 56% 3 point shooting in actual college play.
by Scizzy on Jun 3, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sure shooting 1-2 cherry picked three pointers a game. he is not shooting that in the nba lol
he is a good shot though. shame he cant guard a SF or is a little small for the PF.
he would be an all star then
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lots of guys shoot a couple wide open 3's a game
but only 7 guys in the history of college basketball have made a higher percentage.
that’s an impressive. but it implies he is the 7th best 3 point shooter in college basketball history. and that, by miles, is not the case.
he is a good shooter. his percentage is high bec he is smart in his shot selection and his usage is low. but i will say it again, he is a good shooter for as big as he is. He reminds me of Laettner- who took 50% more threes per game and also made 57% (exactly actually!!)
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whats that got to do with Kanter?
He isn’t being drafted to shoot 3s. Like Love, he can do it; but that isn’t what he is there for. He is muscle in the middle who can score in the paint and grab boards. And he isn’t a stretch 4. He is a stretch 5.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
Haslem is not starting for MIami. And that doesn’t really help your argument. Look, he’s good enough to play with Wade and Lebron!!
OK, we have neither. So get us those guys and then we’ll talk.
he started when they didn't have Shaq and didn't have Lebron
and they were the #3 seed in the East that year. also started the year before without either but they sucked that year. his rookie year he started about 25 games – Wade’s rookie year when they had Caron and Odom and Brian Grant (i think) as the other primary starters.
plus we can only work with whats available. put Wall out there with Young, Singleton, Booker and McGhee and this team probably has as much talent in their starting line up as Indiana had this year. Actually already had as much talent but Indiana has gone who have been winners in the past like Collison, Hansborough, and Hibbert who know the importance of doing the little things.
point is supporting Booker
the Wiz aren’t going to be a title team any time soon. They can still put together a team that does what it has to do to pull out victories. requires guys that will do the little things. Booker is someone who’s willing to do that and shown he’s able.
and I like him
but not as a starting PF, defending starting PFs. He has no chance of challenging shots right over the top of him.
height is an issue
but hops, quickness and strength off set that some – especially as he gets craftier.
i don’t know, i just don’t worry much about his defense when I think of the defense that’s currently played by the starting PF. Booker’s defense even with its limitations is an improvement. his rebounding numbers would be about the same. scoring would be down some, but only by about 5 points a game while shooting a higher percentage.
I disagree re: Blatches defense
When Blatche was on Bosh, Bosh struggled. When Blatche missed the next Miami game, Bosh was taking it to the hole whenever he felt like it. Thats where the team misses Blatche.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Says more about lack of quality depth
than it does about Blatche.
It says something about both
Blatche is a pretty good man to man defender and the team needs him because he is the only one on the team right now that can defend certain players. Jefferson came out in the 2nd half of the last Utah game and almost personally brought Utah back. If Blatche had been in that game then Jefferson would not have been such a terror around the rim. Blatche can defend these players.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not just his size. I think he's simply not good enough.
At times he even struggles as a reserve because he is a mediocre mid-range shooter.
PF is a very deep position in this league. No way he could hold his own even against the eastern conference. The only way he could start is if he could rebound like Reggie Evans…or if like Haslem he has a great mid-range shot and was a bit bigger.
Even in our division he couldn’t hold his own—Bosh, Josh Smith, Tyrus Thomas, and Brandon Bass—the weakest of the 4. But even Bass is a better player. He would average more rebounds if he didn’t play next to Dwight, and Brandon has a very good mid-range jumper. But overall Booker would be getting f***ed by all of those guys.
Next the Atlantic division—KG, Brand, Amare, Kris Humphries, Ed Davis/Amir Johnson. Even though the first two are old, they could still take Trevor to school. No reason to talk about what Amare would do. If Trevor was Kris’ size he’d be awesome…Kris is a fantastic rebounder and his game complements Brook perfectly.
I could go on forever. There is so much talent at PF in this league. Boozer, Ibaka, LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Millsap, Kevin Love, Paul Gasol, Zach Randolph, David Lee, Blake Griffin, Duncan, Nowitzski, David West, Luis Scola…
Booker just isn’t the guy. If you dont have a PF that is a good scorer and can run the pick-and-pop(which they need, especially since they have a PG like Wall) you need a PF that specializes in something on defense. Gotta be a shotblocker/defender(Ibaka, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin) Or a tenacious rebounder(Reggie Evans, Millsap, Jason Maxiell(who is 6’7" but 500 pounds)
Sorry dude. Booker just isn’t built to be a starter in this league. But if somehow by God’s grace he becomes not just a starter, but a productive one, then fuck me.
his numbers were pretty solid when he started...
he’s not a long term fix at the spot, but I think he could hold his own for a year or two.
I still have remote hope for Booker at the 3
We’ve debated it a lot — he can certainly defend the 3, based on what we saw in his rookie year. But his offense is (ahem), shall we say, limited. At his best (assuming he gets a jump shot), he should be paired with an inside-out 4…someone with Blatche’s skills, but who cam jump higher, rebound, and has some desire to play inside a little.
if he can defend the three, why do we need singleton? he can develop an outside shot
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Ditto
I like Book but I just don’t see him as being a starter either. I think we tend to boost his value because his work ethic and tenacity seems to have been so foreign to this roster over the last few years.
I feel like the only guys that should be off-limits via trade are Wall and Crawford. And Pierre unless there’s a GREAT offer.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by WorldWiEdWard on Jun 3, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
and neither are important. both are nice to haves
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Booker is a nice to have....
Crawford I think is more than that.
If some one could assure me that the picks DraftExpress has The Wizards down for (Kanter at 6, Tobias Harris at 18 and Nolan Smith at 34) are really coming our way, I would be satisfied that we had come out of the draft with a reasonably deep and balanced roster. Not a serious contender by any stretch, but a decent initial supporting cast for John Wall.
After that it is up to the coaches and the players themselves to sort it out.
I agree
Blatche has been disappointing and he’s overpaid a bit, but he’s also still young and could be a great player if he gets his head on straight (see, for instance, Zach Randolph). We should not be in such a hurry to dump one of our most talented players just to move up a little a draft that’s extremely weak all the way to the top.
by Newjamarcus on Jun 3, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
interesting but
there is no way they are getting Mcgee. thats way out. Blatche wouldn’t help the wolves. Our package is crap.
Plus I do’t think Williams is worth the trouble I don’t see how he’s any better than Beasley really.
by jazzy1 on Jun 3, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
What about this?
I didn’t read thru all the comments but here is what I think would be good for both teams. We send Javale the 6th and 18th pick for the 2nd and Wesley Johnson
Our starting lineup next year would be:
PG: Wall
SG: Young
SF: Johnson
PF: Blatche/Booker
C: Kanter
one reason I like Kanter so much
is that he fits perfectly with McGee. He can step up and hit a jump shot and he’s more of a banger down low. Personally I’d rather have Chris Singleton at 6 over Wesley Johnson.
I forget who brought it up
But I do like the McGee + Kanter = Noah + Boozer analogy. It’s not perfect, but it helps illustrate your point.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
and Kanter
doesn’t have Boozer’s lack of length. Boozer has always struggled in the playoffs once he had to face long PFs – especially if they could move their feet worth a damn. Kanter is a legit 6’11 with shoes. They might share Boozer’s other weakness of not being able to cover anyone any where. But we’ll see.
Boozer doesnt play D. that is his biggest problem
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which one is McGee?
He doesn’t have an ounce of the toughness of Boozer or Noah, a smidge of the intelligence of Noah, or half the close range jumper of Boozer. We have no idea what Kanter is. That said, I know what you’re getting at.
by Unselds on Jun 3, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Boozer is tough?
Since when. He gets out muscled on offense when it matters and watches other big men score nearly uncontested shots on him. McGee actually is second in blocks and BPG this past season and complement’s Wall very well.
Skins rule
I actually like Wes Johnson
Liked him at Syracuse and seem’d to be outta position in Minn. Wall seemed to play well with him in Rooks vs Soph game.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
not the 18th too.
but people were not too keen on johnson when i polled earlier. i know he played out of position. so did they. they thought he looked lost out there.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I would like to see how Kanter and Blatche play together
They could have a nice in and out game with each other. Blatche at the perimeter passing the ball to a cutting Kanter and Kanter at the perimeter getting Blatche down low. Kanter banging with the 5’s and Blatche covering the 4s.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
McGee has way too much potential.
You dont trade someone who is second in the league in blocks(although that is kind of flukey because he jumps at everything), had a triple double with blocks, has improved tremendously—even during the course of the year, and his still improving. He’s 7’2" and runs like a gazelle.
The best part about the kid is his work ethic. We like to tear McGee to shreds here. But he works on everything that we say is wrong with him. Too weak? Added muscle, and probably going to get even bigger this off-season. He has decent form on his jumper but his hands are so damn big it looks wierd when he shoots. I really don’t to see him shooting more than 1 or 2 foul line J’s per game,
Anyway, my point is you cant trade a budding center for an unknown quanitity. Im as big a Kanter fan as the next person, but you never know. I’d prefer Kanter over anyone in this draft, even Derrick Williams, but NOT for McGee.
by tw10 on Jun 3, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not me
I would trade McGee in a heart beat for Kanter
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
neither player completely represents what you described lol
kanter is solid, not spectacular. mcg has potential, slow development, low bball IQ and is under contract for just next year
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I want to know how McGee is now 7'2"?
I’ve noticed this lately. Is he growing physically or in the minds of some people?
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
you would never know that we were the fourth worse team in the league last year reading these posts. i guess it is good- its optimistic =) but i actually think some people believe their crap lol
manute bol had lots of potential and he was 7’7
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
ironically, he was a wizzard too…along with my man muresan =)
we love em big and full of potential here in washington. who cares if the can play.? hope sells
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
per Ernie
“In Chicago, summer 2008, McGee was measured to be 6’11″ without shoes and 7’0″ with. On Thursday night, Ernie Grunfeld said, "He’s grown a little bit. He’s over 7-feet tall without shoes on”
Love hearing that a guy is still growing.
Makes me feel like the player still has so much more improving to do.
Ohhh my God.
Where is my FACE? I CANT FEEL MY FACE!!!
by returnofswagger on Jun 3, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
R U SERIOUS
If u ask me there’s NO WAY we give up Javale PERIOD…u will never find a kid that even that close to Dwight ….Imagine u give up javale and he goes and get taught by Pat Ewing a Big Man that actually played the game and teach this kid….U GUYS R CRAZY to even be mention him in a trade….SMH have a basketbal mind please…no offense…..
by H.A.2.F on Jun 3, 2011 2:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Close to Dwight?
You mean as friend?
What about trading Blatche 6th and 18 for Wes and the 2nd pick?
Then starting lineup would be:
PG: Wall
SG: Young
SF: Johnson
PF: Booker/Kanter
C: McGee
I'm for that
mainly b/c I don’t think Blatche and McGee will ever work together and Kanter I believe would. I don’t even care about receiving Wes Johnson in return
Hell
At least demand the 20th pick back and we keep the 18th…still probably wouldn’t do it.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hola BulletNation! Good stuff as always dude. Your posts are always a good read.
But seriously, does no one see any parallels between this guy and Jose Barea?
I see a whole lot more Jason Terry in him. He also looks similar to the only other [player in the league with the same last name(their first names also both start with J, and JC ended up on his team) Jamal Crawford.
“JET” originally ran the point early on…I didn’t know this till I looked it up, but Jason was only a 29% 3pt shooter his rookie year. I think this is the most important area Jordan has to improve in. IMO, if we keep him, he NEEDS to become a good spot up shooter. It will make us a much better team. JC and Jason often take a lot of pull-up two’s, and can both make things happen off the dribble.
I was sure that Jamal+Jordan were related. Their games are eerily similar. Again, the only thing JC is missing is the 3pt shot. But besides that, they both move in that herky jerky way, are good playmakers that throw a flashy passes, and both have sick handles(Jamal definitely tops Jordan in this category)
If he can develop a good 3pt shot, even if he’s only good in catch and shoot, Jordan will become the quintessential 6th man, and if he keeps improving and models his game after these two guys he might win the award one day.
Agreed
I used J.J. Barea because while JET is well know, Barea is changing perceptions about what most people thought he was capable of. I figured to bring that mojo in for JC, to sway his more reluctant supporters to see his place on a championship squad. And yeah, once that 3 point shot is there, he is going to be exPENsive…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
he will never be that expensive. without a team loaded with shooters like dallas has, esp including a stretch the floor like dirk, he doesnt get the room to dribble all around until something opens up.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope so
Comparatively, JC could easily end up with a contract at equivalent of 8-10m/yr
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
While its hard to project 3 seasons down
Devin Harris is in that neighborhood and Utah is trying to unload him. So I think JC has to be starting and the Wiz will have to be a real play off caliber team for him to get in to that range.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
and believe we will be regardless…but it will be easier to project after the draft…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he could. but he has a lot of work to do to get there. he hasnt even shown he can play within a system much less what he would look like playing in one. he is a very exciting free lancer. i love that he passes and is not just out there to jack up his own shot.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
are you saying....
Crawford will never be that expensive or Barea?
I think BF was saying Crawford will be expensive if he gets that 3 point shot down.
he needs more than that to get there.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but
we’re assuming his shot selection improves, and with that herky-jerky playmaking style getting better along with his defense, it’s not unreasonable
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 4, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Blatche
So quickly they forget???
If it won’t for blatche we would have not traded Jamison….Why because the organization was ready to move from old skills to new skills. After the jamison trade blatche was the only offense…Now last year blatche struggled because he wasnt in the spotlight anymore..wall came, arenas drama. Dray had in his mind he was going to be the man..Then he realized at the end of the season he had to be a team player. swinging the ball..driving instead of settling and even playing defense. Dray is a beast and if we trade him i hope he kill us when we play em…SMH….he can shoot, he can drive, he can rebound, with the right mind set he can defend. That fade away jumpshot in the lane a beauty the knicks know when he scored the first 12 points in that game vs them…Im on the keep dray campaign.
by b-rated on Jun 3, 2011 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he's worth his contract
And I don’t like his attitude. But he is probably undervalued by Wiz fans for what he can contribute. It’s the complete opposite of last summer, when I had a lot of arguments about trading him for Kevin Love and people disagreed with me…
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
clarification
*SOME people disagreed with me. I know that others had similar arguments.
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he’s worth his contract. And I don’t like his attitude
. Agreed
But he is probably undervalued by Wiz fans for what he can contribute.Disagreed
For example, TWolves fans on canis hoopis were calling it a ´toxic contract´ that they didn´t want. Every time I see/hear his name mentioned in the media somewhere, they are making fun of him. Right now, no team is touching him unless we pay them to with a 2012 unprotected first rounder or better.
That being said, this dude could be só damn good if he just stopped goofing around and got serious. I´m still rooting for him and hope he turns it on next yr. Don´t expect him to be worth anything though, not even a second rounder in this draft, at this point.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 3, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with all your points, actually
I think I just didn’t express myself clearly enough… people treat him like he’s useless but he could be a contributor for this team. I don’t think he’s worth anything elsewhere unless it’s to a team that feels it can “turn players around.” Liiiiiiike the Knicks. Or the Lakers… I mean, Kwame was worth something for a reason, right?
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if you are 7 feet and athletic you have a roster spot in this league until you are 28 and still havent developed
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they think Blatches contract is "toxic"
wait until Love signs his next contract. I wonder what they will call that in 2 seasons.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What is so toxic about Blatche's contract?
Everyone thought EG did the right thing when he extended him, as the price was well below market for the type of numbers Dray was putting up at the time, which was the last half of the 2009-10 season.
Even though Dray did not extend those numbers throughout 2010-11 for all kinds of reasons, legitimate or otherwise, he (a) closed with a good run and (b) put up overall season numbers (16 and 8 or thereabouts) that are certainly consistent with his current contract (even if it is a “soft” 16 and 8 much as AJ’s 20 and 10 or better still Troy Murphy’s perennial 18 and 10s not so many seasons ago) . Toxic is a word that should only be applied to major contracts held by players that are on the downside of their careers… Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkoglu, Shard, Elton Brand, AJ, and probably Joe Johnson… Blatche’s deal is not a cap buster and he still has an upside even if few of the people on this site believe he will ever realize it.
Compare Blatche’s deal to that which Phoenix gave Josh Childress, the money is roughly the same as I recollect… and for much of the season Josh was so far down the Suns’ bench that he was shown his seat by an usher. Or what about the John Salmons salary run?
by khrabb on Jun 3, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And this is why we shouldn't trade him now
I agree with a lot of this. It seems to me that there’s very little upside to trading Blatche right now. His market value is unlikely to go much lower, barring an injury. On the other hand, it could quite possibly go a lot higher — if the foot really was a bigger problem last year than we realized, or if he gets his head on straight, or even if just gets hot for a couple months at the beginning of next season.
So why give the guy away to move up a couple of spots in a really weak draft? Kanter and Williams are hardly sure things, and we’ll have another early pick next year. Hold Blatche for now and see what happens — his value can only go up.
@Khrabb I didn´t say that, Twolves fans did
@Newjamarcus Exactly. At this point we can´t trade him because his value is so low team that is taking him on, probably wants to get paid for it. If he gets through the off season and the first couple of months of the new season, but doesn´t improve his production, he´ll be worth more already. If he really gets his act together he´d be worth a lot more, but then again, in that case i´d be hesitant to trade him haha.
Andray the lap dance lover, has us by the balls dude.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 4, 2011 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"with the right mind set"
the rest of us would like Blatche too.
thanks! sometimes i am BMH (banging my head) on this site lol
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
a player that plays only when featured is not a player to feature in a team sport
but he is ok to feature with a second unit
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that was the problem with Blatche
that he has to be featured. 41/2 seasons he was never featured. Its more about adapting to Wall. Blatche is a victim of his own versatility on the team. They constantly move him around. He goes from point 4 to post up 4 to wing player and its because he is 1 player they can do this with. if the Wiz can settle on a team, then Blatche can settle on a role. At the beginning of the season he stood around watching because they were not getting him the ball. He seemed lost, like am I the go to guy or a facilitator, or what? It took a good chunk of last season for Saunders to figure out how to use Blatche. Towards the end of the season Wall and Blatche finally started clicking together.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
lots of good points in there. but he sulked when he was benched and got into that pissing match with flip over it. maybe he has matured. i dont think the market is what we want to trade him so i dont concern myself with it. the time to trade him was last summer- and i would have- but it has passed for now. he will end up being a productive PF off the bench for us probably
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
7 Day Dray!
Except for Tuesdays…
I have no good signature ideas.
by Juice over Whine on Jun 3, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Tuesday nights tho
Can´t a brother have a little fun with the ladies every now and then?
;-)
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 3, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's so tantalizing though
I fear that he’s gonna blow up if we trade him, but maybe it is what is and the reality is that he won’t reach his potential here. I would like to keep him but understand that he and JVM don’t seem to fit well on the court with each other
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by WorldWiEdWard on Jun 3, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't forgotten
But there is no one more available at the veteran big man spot, which is why I brought it up. I refuted part of his value based on Minnesota already having Anthony Randolph. I don’t hate on Dray, I think he is worth more than he usually gets credit for.
But if we trade for a front court player, he makes the most sense.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jun 3, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And now back to REALITY when it comes to JaVale
JaVale McGee is not up for trade. He wasn’t during the Christmas break when Andray was put on it and he isn’t now.
We have to let John Wall and JaVale grow up together.
It has the potential to be special and spectacular.
Question:
What is the hardest position to get a legitimate All Star?
Answer:
The same position JaVale McGee plays. Center.
The reality of McGee
is Saunders who has called him a backup center, brought up the Russian leagues and said the only reason McGee gets any minutes is because McGee is on a rebuilding team. That’s the reality of McGee.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flip was wrong
I think he was talking in the moment, doubt he really believes that.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
i do think if he was on a good team he'd have to correct a number or things immediately
or get benched. the talent is there to start for most teams at Center. but the freelancing wouldn’t be welcome. the inconsistent rebounding wouldn’t be tolerated. and offensive touches would be limited to lobs, dump offs, rebounds, getting it to hand it off. if he had a problem with any of that he’d be watching more than playing.
by Staybon on Jun 3, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if he had a problem with any of that he’d be watching more than playing.
Absolutely correct sir
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jun 3, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that he shouldnt.....
“attempt” to play the PG position, but JaVale McGee is a decent starting center. Just imagine if Miami had JaVale, doubt Dallas would stand a chance, Miami would have the total package. If JaVale played for ATL, it’d give Horford the opportunity to play strictly as a 4, where he feels more comfortable. Think if JaVale played for a close (championship close) team he could put them over the top.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
if McGee freelanced for Miami
he’d get eaten up. If he complained about not getting the ball…he’d get eaten up. the lack of rebounding they would allow to an extent since they allow Joel Anthony to not focus as much on that as long as he’s blocking shots. But if Anthony isn’t where he’s supposed to be or doesn’t rotate on time…he’s sitting on the bench. they just don’t tolerate that. I do think McGee would eventually do as told, but would take a while to break bad habits at first.
by Staybon on Jun 3, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
His habits have gotten to go.
but i believe he is still young enough, and has the ability to be broken. Its almost like his athletic ability is a burden, he thinks he can do things other Centers cant, which he probably can. In his mind he can bring the ball up court, do a crossover going full speed and sky hook it in, but in real life its a turnover waiting to happen. If he can be broken of bad habits, hes not only a solid starting center but a good starting center.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
This comment will be here as a devils advocate thing
While JaVale needs to develop stronger skills down in the post, his ball handling and dribbling is not bad for his size. I don’t mind if he did one of those crazy behind the back dribbles if we got into such a situation where he got trapped when we have no timeouts left or something like that, now that we know that he can do it though for a totally wrong reason. It’s not a crime for a big man to have good ball handling skills.
yeah..
tough thing is will it require him going somewhere else for that realization to set in for him? or will it require a new coach? the hope is that Flip can get through to him, but not sure on the likelihood of that. a veteran big who’s first language is english (sorry Oberto) probably would help Flip out.
Thats what Saunders is counting on
and so am I, personally. I would really like McGee to stop laughing about his mistakes and do something about it.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We are all obv crazy.
This guy has gotten a triple Double……C’mon……..triple double!
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
you tube highlight, espn highlight, what’s the third?
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago had
No Boozer, no Noah, or no Rose that night. And Kurt(?) Thomas nearly had a better game than Javale did.
Yes I am selling his triple double short.
Ohhh my God.
Where is my FACE? I CANT FEEL MY FACE!!!
by returnofswagger on Jun 3, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that the game he celebrated his individual achievement when the team got blown out? And he became a national poster child as a player that does not get it. Or was that a different game?
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Same game
Ohhh my God.
Where is my FACE? I CANT FEEL MY FACE!!!
by returnofswagger on Jun 3, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
it was the game where Flip ran 4 plays in a row for him at the end
so he could get the triple double, then all the fans and media went nuts about how selfish Mcgee is without mentioning that Flip encouraged the entire thing.
by DCrez on Jun 4, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
JaVale
would be better playing for Miami b/c he would have no choice but to play to the role of rebound and block shots b/c like J.Anthony now….he won’t be allowed to create his own shot and it would force him to concentrate.
because they have leadership on that team? lol
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
no, he’d get better b/c it would force him to only focus on a certain aspect of his game. With the big 3 in place he wouldn’t be getting the ball on offense and that would change his mindset on how to get playing time.
right and both those things are what team leaders do. they set the culture of team- or at least enforce the culture
I get your point. He would either develop faster or fade away quicker if he were on a team that needed him for a different reason.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing if he shot 55% on the shots he creates. I dont think he shoots a high enough percentage on shots he creates (not oops) plus turnovers to give him a full green light. He will get there though. I hope next season.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying Flip is afraid to bench him for mistakes?
Flip sits Mcgee at the drop of hat, if he was as terrible as so many people here seem to think he wouldnt play nearly as much. Yi is pretend-23 and was supposedly signed to see if he’d develop here….Flip wouldnt hesitate to have played Yi over Mcgee if that’s what was merited
Flip was f$%^^&ed neither player was good enough to warrant starter minutes. He did not have many options. You need a center on the court. So they both got a lot of minutes. Do you think Yi will be back? I would be a little surprised unless he signed REAL cheap. I dont even know if we can extend him under the QO.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
At 5.4 mil
they aren’t going to pick up Yis option. They will let him turn FA and then maybe negotiate. Grunfeld did tell a Chinese reporter that he is open to bringing Yi back. I didn’t know if he meant it or was simply keeping good public relations
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
well, we know he would keep up the PR. i am sure he did mean it- at the right price. Yi is not getting his option.. I didnt know if we could sign him for less bec of some rule. But that does not appear to be the case. He will prob be offered something like 3mm to be, I hope, our third center
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
$3M?
to be the third C? I sure hope not. I wasn’t that impressed with Yi. We have too many guys that just aren’t very good, and we’re collectively not good enough to keep trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip with Yi IMO. We’re at our wits’ ends trying to get the potential out of our most talented bigs as it is.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by WorldWiEdWard on Jun 3, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Big men in general have a tendency to get overpaid.
But a $3 mill/yr contract this year would be more like a $2 mill/yr contract next season.
I believe it
McGee is a backup on a good team. That’s where Chris Anderson plays too.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 3, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those moments
were through the course of most of the season. And it doesn’t matter if Flip is wrong, he’s the head coach.
by hambonejackson on Jun 3, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no. it is true. he wouldnt start on a championship contending team. his bball IQ kills him. he makes too many bonehead mistakes they couldnt tolerate. skills aside. we have no choice. we have no other real centers on the roster. get jonas or kanter ernie, please
by les boulez bomber on Jun 3, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So instead of developing our young talent...
We want to trade so they go and become someones star, brilliant!
by Objdadon on Jun 4, 2011 5:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Name one team that developed and won a championship with 100% in house talent
We have a likely superstar with John Wall. We need to find another legitimate all-nba type prospect at a different position. With two in hand, you can attract a third and be a legitimate contender. That is how it is done unless you acquire multiple stars in free agency.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 4, 2011 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions
As a Wolves fan in Minny
We won’t take on Blatche. There are enough big guys available in the top 10 of this draft AND our biggest hole is at SG that we aren’t going to take on a guy like Blatched or Robin Lopez unless the rest of the package blows us away, and us getting ‘rid’ of Webster isn’t really a priority either. He’s a nice vet and never really got to show what he can do last year. Plus, his contract isnt all bad, either. The stuff that has been getting the most talk over at Canis Hoopus is about trading down with Flynn and the #2 so we can take Kanter or Biyombo and getting a SG in return, a la DeRozan. So, if Nick Young is in play (which i doubt) then my guess is Toronto really is the front runner.
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