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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

Wizard's Trade Targets: Utah Jazz

Community consensus has established the Utah Jazz as a primary target for draft day trade.  Observing the niceties, the Jazz are safely tucked away in the Western Conference, and Salt Lake City played home to the only good movie Matthew Lillard ever made.  There's no pre-existing bad blood, which makes this trade much easier to swallow as a fan.  Not that I'd hunger strike over dealing with Cleveland...or would I?  As long as their draft picks are willing to suit up and play, I guess I could stomach that.

But mechanics aside, as Rook noted last week, picks #3 and #12 should guarantee us what we're hoping for; the front court player of our choice (Enes Kanter, Jonas Valanciunas, or Derrick Williams, should the legend David Kahn draft Brandon Knight) and which should serve up Chris Singleton, Tristan Thompson, or Markieff Morris at #12 (or whomever's dear to your heart).  But as usual, once you're in the dream, it's easy to figure out what to do.  The trick is figuring out whether or not it's a pipe that gets you there.

First, let's take a look at how the fortunes of the Jazz have changed over the past year.

Star-divide

Things started with the Jazz as a serious playoff contender.  A frontcourt rotation of Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson, and Mehmet Okur at PF and C, with the return of Andrei Kirilenko and Raja Bell signing at SF looked to make up for the void at SG with the departures of Wesley Matthews and Kyle Korver, and with Deron Williams at the point, the Jazz looked like a playoff contender again.  Jerry Sloan coached the team to a 27-14 start and the playoffs in the tough Western Conference looked assured.

We aren't really sure where the meltdown started, bu the Jazz's struggles seemed to begin after a road loss to the Wizards.  Seemingly before we knew it, Jerry Sloan was resigning, Deron Williams was no longer a lock to re-sign in Utah, playoff contention was fading fast, and it didn't seem like things could get much worse for the Jazz.  Then they pulled the trigger on the deal Masai Ujiri refused to, suddenly Devin Harris and Derrick Favors were on the roster along with a pair of first round draft picks and Deron Williams was out.  There were faint whispers in Phoenix that Paul Millsap might be available for Steve Nash and Robin Lopez.

The most popular theory is that the 3rd pick can be had for the 6th and taking on Memo's expiring deal.  Chris Singleton's performance thus far in draft workouts has him amplifyiing his draft stock, combine that with all withdrawals from the draft due to fears over the labor strife, and suddenly #18 doesn't seem like a likely spot to land what we're looking for.  Rook mentioned the possibility of taking on Raja Bell's 2 year, 6.7 million deal in exchange for swapping those picks, but expressed doubts about whether or not that would be sufficient incentive for Utah, even should the Wiz elect to include or swap second round picks.  The Jazz's reversal in fortunes works in our favor.  Perhaps they're simply looking for depth at SG and shedding Bell's salary while not having to reach to draft Klay Thompson or Marshon Brooks fits with trading down to nab Kemba Walker.  And if only #6 and Memo is the price of acquiring the #3, that tastes better than serving up Javale McGee, no?

Others contend the Jazz would rather trade Al Jefferson, but that rules out the Wizards because we don't have the talent we're willing to trade for a piece a contender would pay through the nose for around the deadline...should the new CBA allow it.  In addition, a contract like Jefferson's is not the kind of salary ballast the ten point plan calls for this early in the rebuild.  Playing devil's advocate, Andray Blatche and his contract are the wild card there.

The problem we're looking at is that the Jazz may simply not be willing to merely shed salary for those picks, and none of our young pieces are worth a mere six spots in the middle of a weak draft, or play a position where the Jazz already have a full rotation.  Could we buy the Timberwolves' 20th pick for cash and flip that with the #18 and #6 cum Memo's expiring for the #3 and #12?  Is that worth it?

The urgency of these discussions will no doubt reach panic levels as the draft approaches.  We cannot afford to overpay, and there's still plenty of value in this draft whether we stand pat or not.  As Mike said earlier, this is Ernie's time to shine.    Personally, I think the Jazz draft Enes Kanter and wait to see if we draft Brandon Knight.  If that happens, we swap.#12 and #18, acquire Okur and Bell (goodbye Josh Howard and Mo Evans), swap seconds, and trade Hamady N'Diaye.  The Jazz draft Klay Thomspon or Marshon Brooks to play next to Brandon Knight.  As Samuel L. Jackson said, "Hold on to your butts."

But who knows?  As disgrunted said weeks ago, trading up is a panic move.  Maybe we stand pat.  In either case, I'm going to need some stomach antacids.  As Samuel L. Jackson said, "Hold on to your butts."

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I still dont like the idea of trading when there is no sure thing

I honestly do not believe that any of the draftees have “sure thing” written on any of them and would hate to see us give up anything of value, seeing as how we are so thin anyways. I would honestly rather wait and see how the draft picks pan out and then make moves midseason. Otherwise, we may end up with a raw deal.

by TheRealBigMike on May 31, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Under the scenario discussed, we are not trading anything of value. We are moving up and paying for it with our current picks and taking on contracts. Okur is not a bad idea if he has any juice left because our current center is under contract for only one season, and we have no backup!

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we can accomplish that by only giving up cash in the process, then that is fine. However, I dont necessarily think that would be enough. Utah especially is going to want young talent to fill out their roster.

by TheRealBigMike on May 31, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe- but no one knows what they are asking. we would have nothing to talk about if we had to wait until we know that ;-)

the utah fans would like for someone to free them of okur. they view him as an expensive contract on the decline of his career.

i think it is less likely knight falls to six. he is a top 5 pick in this draft and in my view, the top PG prospect.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is my favorite scenario right now btw. i am not sure B Knight gets past toronto though. I really hope they prefer walker or biyombo moves up the draft boards.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Walker and Biyombo

a lot of what I’ve recently been reading indicates that Toronto and Utah are both kinda torn about Knight vs. Walker. I’ve even seen in a couple of places that they both prefer Walker. I think that’s part of the reason that Utah makes a deal with us because at 6, at least one of them should be on the board.

As for Biyombo, I can see him cracking the top 5 if the Cavs and Wolves pull off a trade. At 4, I’d imagine that Minny would take Biyombo as the defensive presence in the middle rather if Kanter is off the board.

I think a very likely draft outcome is
1. Cavs – Irving
2. Cavs – Wiliams
3. Wiz – Kanter
4. Wolves – Biyombo
5. Raps – Walker
6. Jazz – Knight

by gorebd on May 31, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think neither drop down to 6

I know that we still have a lot of of time before the draft but I am not sure if I am on board with the notion of either Walker or Knight being available at 6. My top 5 includes both of them, not Biyombo.

by Dalp on May 31, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

your scenario is the likely outcome if

we dont trade up. i would imagine your order is irving, williams, knight, kanter, walker. but the benefit to utah is that if they trade with us, cleveland or minny (if the trade isnt consumated) wont take a pg. therefore knight or walker will be available at 6 and utah either dumped salary or picked up an asset and got their pg on a cheaper contract.

by gorebd on May 31, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see walker dropping but hope you are right!!!

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

In your scenario

What makes you think that Minny won’t take Knight at 4or any other pick where knight is still available? They need a pg as bad as any other team in this league.

by Dalp on May 31, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

they do now. today is the last day for rubio to declare for next season. and he hasnt so far.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

they do now. today is the last day for rubio to declare for next season. and he hasnt so far.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is

Even if he signs with Minnesota – they will not announce anything until Rubio’s Team in Spain either wins the Championship or is eliminated…. So even if today goes by with no announcement, it means nothing.

I was reading on CanisHoopus (the Timberwolves SB*Nation blog) – and one poster said it was like getting a Christmas present, but not being able to open it until MLK day.

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

BY the way

it has NOTHING to do with “declaring” – Today is the last day that Rubio can sign a rookie contract under the current CBA. If he doesn’t sign a contract today, then they have to wait until the new CBA is in place – and Rubio will get less money because Rookie Scale contracts will almost definitely be reduced under the new agreement.

SO – You may hear by Tomorrow morning that Rubio has NOT signed (which they can announce) – Otherwise, if you hear nothing, I’d speculate that he has signed, and they are waiting to announce it….

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am kind of confused by your scenario

" Personally, I think the Jazz draft Enes Kanter and wait to see if we draft Brandon Knight. If that happens, we swap.#12 and #18, acquire Okur and Bell (goodbye Josh Howard and Mo Evans), swap seconds, and trade Hamady N’Diaye. The Jazz draft Klay Thomspon or Marshon Brooks to play next to Brandon Knight. As Samuel L. Jackson said, “Hold on to your butts.”

Are you saying that we would swap Knight for Kanter and take on Bell/ Okur?

by jeffco01 on May 31, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Nevermind I know what you mean

I would make that deal in a heartbeat. Although I think it is more likely we would only get their #3 pick and Utah would hold onto their #12 pick. I would be fine with #3 and #18 however.

by jeffco01 on May 31, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, they deserve N'Diaye! And I hope he serves the well!

Ah, things that rhyme with Sam Jackson quotes.

Personally, I don’t want to trade up unless we can get Williams. I’m not as sold on Kanter…not enough to trade up anyway. I would be happy to trade down though, provided the pick is still in the 10-15 range.

by Jim America on May 31, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I’m not as sold on Kanter…not enough to trade up anyway.

Even if, by trading up, the Wizards don’t give up any existing talent…. and only have to take on Okur’s salary for ONE SEASON?

It seems like – for fans anyway – that scenario costs NOTHING. The Wizards are not going to use that cap space this year to sign a Free Agent…. so why not use it to either get more picks (like they did last year with the Hinrich trade) – or to trade up?

I don’t see the down side that you do….

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I don’t think that scenario is feasible is all.

by Jim America on May 31, 2011 5:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why? Knight is a better PG prospect than Kanter is PF/C and at a position of need for them. Why do yo say that?

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has nothing to do with Knight v. Kanter

Okur’s contract is only one more year. If they are looking to ship him, they could probably do better.

by Jim America on May 31, 2011 6:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

I can’t see Utah trading its pick just to unload a not particularly onerous contract. I think Utah can demand much more than this to swap picks. If we want the #3 pick, we need to offer something substantial in addition to our #6 – like, for example, our 18th pick and/or a legitimate promising young player (meaning Booker or Crawford, not Seraphin or N’Diaye). I think that, along with taking the Okur contract, is what it would take to swing a deal with Utah.

by Koperro on May 31, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's my thing about trying to include #12

If we’re talking about possibly taking Singleton at 6, what makes us think he’ll be there at 12?

He could easily be taken 9-11 by Charlotte, Milwaukee or Golden State. As for alternatives like Markieff Morris or Tristan Thompson, taking them is redundant if we just acquired Kanter. I don’t really see the need to move up to 12. I think it’s getting a bit greedy on the trade, asking a lot, and doesn’t even guarantee the player we want. I think our best bet would just be to trade 6 and N’Diaye for 3 and Okur.

If we really, really want Singleton, I’d recommend a second trade with Milwaukee, Charlotte, or Golden State to guarantee we get him. I could certainly see Milwaukee or Golden State showing interest in a package of Seraphin and 18 for their pick. Or maybe taking back another bad contract.

Personally, I’d rather trade up for 3. Sit at 18 to see who falls. Maybe its Singleton or Klay Thompson or Marshon Brooks or Tobias Harris. But then I’d use my resources to buy back into the twenties, maybe moving up from 34.

I’d be very pleased with a draft where we trade up for Kanter, draft a shooter in Klay Thompson or Marshon Brooks, and trade up again for Tyler Honeycutt. Our only costs would be taking on Okur and sending out N’Diaye and cash.

by gorebd on May 31, 2011 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

If we’re talking about possibly taking Singleton at 6, what makes us think he’ll be there at 12?

Because trading up from 18 to 12 should net the Wizards a better player….. assuming they’ve done their due diligence (scouting, interviewing, etc…)… SO – even if Singleton is not available at 12, the players that ARE available should be better than players that will be available at 18….

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides....

This team it really, really young….

Taking on veterans Okur and Raja Bell (a veteran big man, and a veteran wing); along with our lone returning veterans ( that are NOT a knuckleheads ) Rashard Lewis and (potentially) Nick Young – should provide a core of veteran leaders to help the TEN players with 3-years or less experience.

This team is almost TOO young…. So the addition of a couple veterans, at key positions, is almost a requirement….

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

John Wall (1-year experience)
Trevor Booker (1-year experience)
Jordan Crawford (1-year experience)
Othyus Jeffers (2-years experience)
JaVale McGee (3-years experience)
Hamady Ndiaye (1-year experience)
Kevin Seraphin (1-year experience)
6th Pick (Rookie)
18th pick (Rookie)
34th pick (Rookie)

Veterans
Andray Blatche (6-years experience)
Nick Young (4-years experience)
Rashard Lewis (13-years experience)

THAT is an extremely young team… TOO young… Not enough leadership… Not enough veterans.

Trading for Okur and Bell is a win-win-win situation for the Wiz…

Win 1 – they move up in the draft and get the TWO players they really need
Win 2 – they get some veteran leadership and help
Win 3 – Okur’s expiring contract can be flipped at the trade deadline for another asset.

Bell’s contract only runs through 2012-13 and is very reasonable at $3.4 Million.

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about the too young thing.

Gotta make sure you get the right KIND of vets, however.

by MR on May 31, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okur and Bell are cool with me

I’m just not counting on Singleton being there. I’d be ok with a haul of Kanter, Marcus Morris, Okur, Raja Bell, and maybe Darius Morris.

by gorebd on May 31, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

that would be a dream draft for us and a very good one for them. They position themselves financially to make a move next year in a much stronger draft class to go with their three building blocks!

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm OK

with adding the vets and with moving up for players. But my doubt is whether Singleton is there at 12 and we won’t know that until after the deal is completed. Maybe we get 12 and take Alec Burks or Marcus Morris.

I’m just saying that I’d rather do a smaller deal with Utah for #3 and then a separate deal if necessary to move up for the speciifc player we want. I’d also be fine with using those assets to move up from 34 instead of moving up from 18.

Getting Kanter is my main concern. I also like the idea of moving up for Singleton and then taking someone like Darius Morris or Singler in the 2nd. But I also like the idea of staying put at 18 to get the best shooter in the draft in Klay Thompson and then moving up for the smart, versatile SF in Tyler Honeycutt.

I think we really, really need to make our priority to move up for Kanter. And I think we have flexibility/options with our two later picks, but should be aggressive in getting the role players that fit our team needs.

by gorebd on May 31, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the hiccup

If we it is worth it to us to have their salaries for a year, and be able to nab Kanter, then it is probably it to them too. We have to hope they value Knight or Kemba above Kanter, or at least even with Kanter.

Upon further review, I guess its not too much of a stretch…

Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.

by returnofswagger on May 31, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be surprised if Ernie moves up.

I think with the weakness of this draft that there isn’t a need to move up.
No one stands out to me.
Take whoever is available at 6 & 18 and hope for the best.
The Wizzies need more help than this draft can provide.

by VBfan on May 31, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I dont think he will move up either though I would love a good deal for us to do so. he has some job assurances but it is not very firm. and gm’s tend not to take big risks in that scenario.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd just stay put

this draft is terrible the allstar players that come outta this draft might be unknown to many Euro’s or late 1st or 2nd rd picks.

I’d play it straight with this draft not worth doing anything unless someone wants to risk next years draft poick then I’m all in next year’s draft could be terrific all the way through the lottery.

Kanter is just being overcooked by Wizards fans he’s become a beacon for those who wanna dump Blatche I guess. I just don’t know if he’s worth the angst.

by jazzy1 on May 31, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Kanter may be sitting there at 6th by the time the draft rolls around.

He doesnt seem to have blown everyone away outside of the BF community…in fact it seems like he’s slipping a little bit relative to JV and even Bismack. We may be trying to move heaven and earth for a guy we could sit tight and draft…

by DCrez on May 31, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

the folks in toronto dont think he is falling past them

here is their draft profile of him

http://www.raptorshq.com/2011/5/30/2196629/raptors-hq-draft-prospect-preview-3-enes-kanter

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kanter didn't interview with them

and now they are snubbing him. In reality they like Kanter. The owner apparently stated that he will not accept players who do not want to play in Toronto, unless he is 6’11", can knock down shots and score in the paint.

by hambonejackson on May 31, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha…i read that review as a positive one. He is not in a position to not go if he is drafted by them.

by les boulez bomber on May 31, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Kanter

fits the Wizards better then anyone in the top 10 in this draft if we cannot land him I’m all for moving the pick to next year draft or for a young talent. I also would like to see blatche in another teams jersey. 23.5 days until the weak draft

by Poojie on May 31, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I think the Jazz draft Enes Kanter and wait to see if we draft Brandon Knight. If that happens, we swap.#12 and #18, acquire Okur and Bell (goodbye Josh Howard and Mo Evans), swap seconds, and trade Hamady N’Diaye. The Jazz draft Klay Thomspon or Marshon Brooks to play next to Brandon Knight. As Samuel L. Jackson said, “Hold on to your butts.”

Where can i sign up for this scenario?

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on May 31, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I hate these conversations because it is just the wildest of speculation

But I’d be stunned if the Bobcats wouldn’t give away the 9th pick to whoever would take 5-10 million off their payroll. Say Eduardo Najera’s expiring deal and Matt Carroll, who has a 3.5 million dollar player option for 2012/13. Or maybe Diaw’s 9 million dollar expiring deal. It wouldn’t take much.

by Scizzy on May 31, 2011 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Charlotte

I’d take #9, #19, Najera and Livingston off their hands for #6.

by Jheiser3 on May 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they were willing to BOYD Diaw

for the 9th pick, Grunfeld should jump on it.

by hambonejackson on May 31, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I LOVE these conversations

because they are the wildest of speculation – at a time when there’s NOTHING else to talk about…..

He's "delightfully cranky"

I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.

by Rook6980 on May 31, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Anyone see the Best and Worst case...

For MARKIEFF MORRIS on Draft Express? Pretty Funny.

by MyCatSaysRAWR on May 31, 2011 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Without the crazy

That is funny.

I wouldn’t mind ending up with Markieff.

Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.

by returnofswagger on May 31, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perspective from a Jazz fan..

I hate to burst your bubble, but there is absolutely no way the Jazz would do this trade.

1. The Jazz are going into next season in a GOOD financial position and are not in the luxury tax range. Our biggest contract (Andrei Kirilenko) is now off the books. While i’m sure the FO wouldn’t mind cutting their payroll, I don’t believe it is a huge concern.

2. Okurs contract is an expiring contract heading into a lockout. WIth the new CBA, it is likely a huge asset rather than a huge liability. Also, Memo’s contract will likely be paid by insurance if is no longer physical able to play.

3. This draft has been called a 2-3 player draft. The talent available between picks 4-10 is very diluted. Because of this, I believe the price to move up is going to be very steep.

4. The Jazz are in search of a franchise player. They will not sacrifice the opportunity to draft one with the 3rd pick for “cap relief.” However, I do believe they may consider trading down if they can acquire young players and draft picks.

The following is a trade I believe the Jazz would consider:

Utah Trades – #3 Pick

Washington Trades – #6 Pick, Jordan Crawford, #34

by mpthoopster on Jun 4, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

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