NBA Draft Combine Measurements Open Thread
by Mike Prada on May 20, 2011 2:25 PM EDT
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PrintThe measurements of many key prospects are coming in at the 2011 NBA Draft combine. While it's easy to downplay these, they can be tremendously instructive in determining where a player ends up playing in the pros. College is such a different game that evaluating it is only a small piece of the puzzle.
Anyway, based on this, here are some key measurements. For a point of comparison, here's a database of past prospects.
Enes Kanter: 6'9.75'' in socks, 6'11.25'' in shoes, 7'1.5'' wingspan, 9'1.5'' stand and reach. Not a true center, but definitely big enough to play the position.
Derrick Williams: 6'7.25'' in socks, 6'8.75'' in shoes, 7'1.25'' wingspan, 9'0'' stand and reach. Worth noting: that's the same wingspan as Joakim Noah. A 10.8% body fat is bad though. Overall, he's a 4 to me, not a 3.
Kyrie Irving: 10.2% body fat. Yikes.
Kawhi Leonard: Just 6'7'' in shoes, but he has a 7'3'' wingspan and an 8'10'' stand and reach, which is crazy (his wingspan is higher than DeJuan Blair, for example). This makes me think he could play power forward, which would enhance his value. Also, Leonard's hand width is 11.3 inches, which is about the size of a toilet seat.
Marcus Morris: 6'7'' without shoes, 6'8.75'' in shoes, 6'10'' wingspan, 8'9.5'' stand and reach. Not great. Those are the measurements of a small forward.
Markieff Morris: 6'7.75'' without shoes, 6'9.25'' with shoes, 6'10.75'' wingspan, 8'10.5'' stand and reach, 10.2% body fat. The last one gives me pause.
Jimmer Fredette: 6'0.75'' in socks, 6'2.5'' in shoes, 6'4.5'' wingspan. Ew.
Kenneth Faried: 6'6'' without shoes, 6'7.5'' in shoes, 7' wingspan, 9' stand and reach. Pretty so-so for an inside player, but great for a 3.
Jordan Hamilton: 6'6.75'' without shoes, 6'8.5'' in shoes, 6'9.5'' wingspan, 8'8'' stand and reach. Kind of intriguing as a 2. Chris Miller reports the Wizards like him.
Tyler Honeycutt: 6'6.75'' without shoes, 6'8.25'' in shoes, 6'9'' wingspan, 8'9'' stand and reach. Similar to Hamilton, but more of a defensive mindset. I like him.
Chris Singleton: 6'7.75'' in socks, 6'9'' in shoes, 7'1'' wingspan, 8'7.5'' stand and reach. Why's the stand and reach so small? I do like only a 7.4% body fat.
Tristan Thompson: 6'7.5'' in socks, 6'8.75'' in shoes, 7'1.25'' wingspan, 9'0.5'' stand and reach. Very impressive wingspan/sit-and-reach. Also, 6.5% body fat
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@Mike
You make WAY too big a deal about body fat percentage. Williams and Irving had no problems playing the game, running or jumping. They’ll be fine.
uuhhhh…check out that draftexpress database for point guards.
by Tbonebullets on May 20, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but none of those guys were even close to his ability
i saw him play multiple times and he never seemed to be overly winded..really don’t think its a problem especially since he missed a major portion of the season and NBA trainers will be able to trim that fairly easily
by tmoneyttime1 on May 20, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean it's only a small thing
And many of the other measurements are better indicators, but it is a bit odd.
I’m more concerned with it for Williams than Krie.
yeah it is really weird
williams always looked like a pretty fit dude to me
by tmoneyttime1 on May 20, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and comparing himself to LeBron...
and how he should be the #1 pick because he has Star power….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
him and Chris Singleton must be hanging out...
Singleton compared himself to Pippen.
I don't know
Throw in Irving’s refusal to drill and the Cavs must be a little concerned. If I were them, I’d be learning a lot about Brandon Knight right now.
Not for the first pick though
Right?
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on May 24, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Kanter with 5.9% body fat...
Kid is in shape – he certainly came prepared for these work outs…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Do you think this will be his playing weight?
Or did he drop these pounds to increase his vert etc for the combine (nothing wrong with that, many players do it), but his playing weight will be more towards the 280 mark people expected?
280?
He’s never been that big…. His playing weight is always around 260-265….
He may have lost a little weight for the combine (he was weighed at 259) – but I doubt he’d ever be 280 (unless you’re talking about 3 or 4 years from now)….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
and by the way
I DO think he’s been working on his explosiveness at ATTACK in Chicago… he certainly looks much more athletic to me than I remember from 3 years ago..
In my opinion, the most important number for a Center is the no step vertical measurement. If Kanter can get close to 26" or 27", he’ll change a lot of people’s minds about his athleticism.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
He seems like a PF to me
and a guy who would replace Blatche if he came here
I think he could play BOTH
Center and PF…
And – He’d be perfect next to JaVale…
But Cleveland will take him with the 4th pick…. he’ll never fall to #6
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on May 20, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
what makes you so sure..
Cleveland doesn’t take Valaciunas over Kanter? I know you don’t rate them as being on the same level, but many publications have them as equals and others have JV above Kanter (DX for instance seems to like JV a bit more) Also Cleveland has had success with long lean euros (see Big Z)
Also in my opinion JV compliments Hickson far better than Kanter would.
by Jeremiah Hewitt on May 20, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Valaciunas has some kind of buyout situation
For some reason, no one’s sure of its details but rumors are it might take 2 years for him to come here.
But Cleveland can wait
They’re not going to go anywhere anytime soon, and they have the Kyrie Irving buzz to sell tix this year.
I'm reading some stuff on the Cleveland Cavs blog
They;re all excited about Kanter…. not so much about Valanciunas…
Of course, it’s just the fans… but still
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
yeah - could be
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Might not pic Valanciunas over Kanter, but...
Might be willing to exchange the two in order to pick up that extra 1st.
Yeah
but then why not keep Valanciunas and the 18th and let them have Kanter?
by hambonejackson on May 20, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
but who wants to wait 2yrs
How old is he, 19? The next 2yrs are pretty critical in his development, would be much better for him to be over here
he was running very fluidly...I have never been in awe of Kanter
but watching him definitely made him more intriguing….extremely athletic for his size…
Kid has spent the last year practicing with Calipari
you bet he is in shape.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
I was pretty surprised to hear the talking heads say GMs were not happy with
Jimmer’s attitude, that he didnt try hard enough in defensive oriented drills and what not.
He didn't try at D during the year
Kid should not go during the lottery. Late first round or early second is closer to his NBA skill level.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on May 24, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That's Andray Blatche territory
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on May 20, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vucevic
is a beast…. He’s huge… Wide shoulders. 6’11.75’’ in shoes (that’s 7-feet in NBA measurements) 260 lbs with only 6.1% body fat and a 9’4.5’’ standing reach…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
He might be worth looking at
Someone with the size to be a legit center and who can shoot fairly well could be valuable. He could very well have an Okur-type career. 260 pounds with 6% body fat is impressive, regardless of how tall a guy is.
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
by pantslessyoda1 on May 21, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
How about Jeremy Tyler?
I saw he had a 7’5" wingspan and they had to put the vert pole on a bench because he was clearing the highest marker. Looks like he can shoot the ball too
Is his height/weight up yet?
Yeah
Jeremy Tyler =
6’9’’ without shoes
6’10.5’’ with shoes
262.4 pounds
7’5’’ wingspan
9’2.5’’ standing reach
13.4% body fat
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Yikes
Those are classic NBA PF/C measurements. If he has a vertical leap…what’s the downside of picking this guy? Those numbers have “late lottery” written all over them…and number 1 overall pick, arguably, if he had his head screwed on straight and went to college.
by Tbonebullets on May 20, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
but he didn't
and he isn’t the player that he would have been. Have to draft based on what he is not what he might have been under different circumstances. Everybody has a story.
???
I think you need to take another look at those measurements again. Today, that’s “what he is.” The story we all know about is “who he was,” which is well documented. Every GM in the league I’m sure is taking a strong look at that kid. Interesting that he didn’t test for the vertical leap at the combine, though (according to the DX numbers)…
by Tbonebullets on May 20, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ALL of the big men (and everyone else as well)
did the vertical leap tests…. Jeremy Tyler maxed out the 3-step vertical – they had to put the device on chairs to have him try again…..
Kanter did well – although the actual numbers have not been released yet…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Leonard's size
If he can play as a stretch 4 then he’s a more interesting player than I’ve given him credit for. I liked his shooting stroke, so if he can bulk up a bit . . .
Yeah
Though his shooting/scoring numbers are really bad. I’d still pass because he’s too similar to Booker.
I was just thinking the same thing
Kawhi Leonard has too redundant of a skill set to the Wizards’ roster to justify using a lottery pick on him unless he shows he’s far and away the best talent available at #6.
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
by mr. 91 on May 20, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A more athletic, higher floor, SF version of Booker
by 8vechkin on May 20, 2011 3:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But he's got horrible scoring numbers to be a 3
And his strength is rebounding. Why play him on the perimeter and take that away.
A 7’3’’ wingspan is more than enough to be a 4 in this league.
by Mike Prada on May 20, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
his absurd hands could make him a unique defender
seriously, he has mutant hands. Put one of those paws on somebody’s back and he’ll hold position against some guys bigger than himself
Everything I’ve heard so far about Leonard makes him seem great…..
That being said, I don’t hear much and know nothing
by 8vechkin on May 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jordan Williams was listed 6'10"
at UMD, and he’s a shade under 6’8" without shoes…… Does this hurt his stock much?
interesting
Leonard is a big reach for us at any point basically a role player picked in the high lottery I’d wait and try and hit on a star or borderline star at 6 take a role player with the 18h pick.
Leonard is pretty cut but doesn;t seem all that flexible sees sorta tight.
Williams 10% body fat is alot he’s a tweener he’s no 3 his skillset and athleticism is almost exactly like Beasley. He’ll never be a dominant player in the league. He’ll be a 15-18ppg scorer.
Irving numbers would raise flags for me. He didn’t move well ater he came back and the injury is said to be about how his foot is genetically structured ligaments in that toe stretch out they are never right again. I think he’s a far bigger gamble physically than people realize there is a reason he’s not working out.
Can someone tell me why Bismack Biyombo is a worse prospect than Kanter?
They both dominated the Nike Hoop Summit, but Bismack is a better athlete and a year younger.
Someone who watched the international players more than me (which is probably everyone), please tell me, what is Kanter’s “can’t miss” potential? I just don’t see it in the youtube clips.
by John Park Williams on May 20, 2011 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
Kanter looks like he can be someone who scores a good bit.
Biyombo gets the Ben Wallace comparison. Defense wins titles, but offense gets people excited. But Kanter can also be a center and always harder to find a good center than anything else.
Kanter seems to be a better fit next to Mcgee because of his scoring ability
Wally's World
by forthepeople on May 20, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
because Kanter can shoot and is used to playing the pick and roll....
I am not voting for either yet..but Kanter seems to have a better all around game…
good point
I don’t think he is necessarily I think because he’s bigger and more skilled plus he’s been on the radar alittle bit longer than Biyombo as a prospect that he’s been given a place near the top of the draft but like usual when guys actually hit the court things work out differently.
I’d rather have Biyombo to help create a defensive identity with Mcgee down low. I thin Kanter will struggle mightily as a defender e’s not that quick laterally and he isn’t that long. Do we really need another pf who doesn’t defend worth a damn.
its also worth noting that Kanter dominated the Nike Hoop Summit
against the HS Class of 2010, who everyone now thinks sucks.
Yet, Bismack dominated the the Class of 2011, who everyone is raving about.
Bottom line, nobody, including me, knows anything.
by John Park Williams on May 20, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats a really food point
That I hadn’t considered.
Concerning Kanter, he dominated who at the Nike Hoops Summit? A really not impressive class of high schoolers. Not that I am completely turned off on him now, but it demands a restructured argument for people who really bank on that game as their reason for waning Kanter.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on May 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
*good point
Mobile
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on May 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wait a minute....
Kanter dominated the best High School players in America…. and that included Jared Sullinger (some considered him the top pick for this year’s draft if he had not returned to Ohio State)… Harrison Barnes (the consensus #1 pick most of the year, until he went back to UNC), Terrence Jones (the Kentucky stand out, who was projected as a Lottery Pick this year), and Brandon Knight (who is one of the top recruits in his class)….
I’d say that, if anything, Biyombo played against a more suspect group of players… after all, how many of you know a lot about Anthony Davis, Michael Gilchrist, James McAdoo and Marquis Teague?
At least after a year of College Basketball – we can say that Sullinger, Barnes, Jones and Knight should be legitimate NBA quality players – whereas we still know very little about Davis, Gilchrist, McAdoo and Teague’s NBA prospects….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Well hold up
That’s a really bad way of thinking about it – we have no clue how good those guys are because they haven’t played a game.
But to say that Biyombo
dominated a better class of players than Kanter did is completely incorrect…. and not supportable by fact.
We have more substantive information about the Sullinger/Barnes/Knight/Jones group of players that played in the 2010 Nike game than we have on the Davis/Gilchrist/McAdoo/Teague group that played in the 2011 game.
Not just more information – but each of those players from the 2010 Nike Game were, if not dominant then certainly difference makers in College…
Whereas, the only information we have on the 2011 group is that they dominated in HIGH SCHOOL.…
So I’d say that being in the 2010 game, where he was clearly the best player, dominating against a class that went on to be excellent College players – gives Kanter the nod over Biyombo in my book….
Now, next year, if Gilchrist, Davis, Teague,etc… go on to destroy their College competition…THEN I’ll be willing to listen to arguments about Biyombo being the better prospect…. But right now, they haven’s done squat in a major College basketball program.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I can get behind that
It just sounded like you were saying 10>11, which is just as faulty as saying 11>10. But maybe I read you wrong.
No...
We just have to wait and see how good the 2011 class plays in College….
There are some good “prospects” in there – but none of them have proven anything in College yet…. (much less the Pro’s)…
At least the 2010 class has proven they were good enough to dominate and make an impact in Major College Basketball programs and Conferences. We still have to wait to see how they will do in the NBA.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I didn't read into it
As a great barometer for Biyombo. But this class is obviously weak, and the people he played against are totally a reflection of that.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on May 21, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Biyombo is a very limited player
who does nothing else but hang around the rim looking for put backs on one end a blocking shots at the other end.
Kanter is one of the most skilled basketball players you will ever watch. He was NBA ready at 16. He is born to play NBA basketball.
by hambonejackson on May 20, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Biyombo is very, very limited offensively
There are also questions about his real age, though I think those are slightly overblown.
Jordan Hamilton gets buckets.
Great scorer and rebounder, but needs to improve some of his defense. Interesting prospect in my opinion.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Al Thornton 2.0
The guy takes BAD shots…He hits some of them…. but even so……
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
He seems to have a better shooting touch than Thornton.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Thank you!!!
I want this Wizards-Jordan Hamilton talk to cease immediately!
I'm not going to think of something extra witty or clever to say, I don't want to convince you to see things my way, I just have 2 words for you: JEREMY LAMB
10.8% Body Fat is a Red Flag- Derrick what are you doing?
Unless you are injured, there is no reason to have 10.8% body fat. Each one of these players should be cut and 100% in shape.
Derrick Williams is taking this draft lightly.
5 years from now when Derrick has 20million in the bank it might be easy to go from 10.8% body fat to 20% body fat.
History is behind this.
if you check the chart that Prada links to, there are some other current players with high body fat
like James Harden is over 10%
by John Park Williams on May 20, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Slouch
Does slouching matter? On the one hand, if guys get measured in shoes because that’s the way they play, shouldn’t habitual slouchers be measured in full slouch? I’m sure they straighten up when it’s time to be measured.
On the other hand, maybe they straighten up when it matters on the court, too.
I suppose all this would matter if everyone played flat footed
But generally there is a lot of jumping going on so how high and quickly you jump from a standing position is more accurate. Its the same with body fat. Lets measure that the end of the season and then again at the start of the next season to see once they reduce it whether it stays that way.
by hambonejackson on May 20, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
this fat question is an issue
begs the question the position these players put themselves in to perform… I think Derrick Williams fancies himself a Carmelo-type player, which is crazy, but A for confidence…
also, isn’t it weird how these guys are like parts of a whole? Like J.Hamilton scores a bunch, but he’s not big on scrappy play, and K.Leonard makes his mark through hustle? There’s literally zero offense and zero defense guys in each position.
Lastly, I do so hope Kanter falls to us, but chances are nearly nill. Even if he expresses that he likes the Wizards, how many franchises have thought they could resolve that issue once the player sees their millions? Also strange, people are big on Kanter even though he hasn’t played serious basketball for two and a half years, about the same amount as J. Tyler. I don’t think he’s good for the Wiz, but I can’t help but feel we are really going to regret not taking a chance… the kid left the comfort of high school where they treated him like royalty to grind away in Israel and Japan… I mean he has maturity issues, but I can’t help thinking under the hands of another franchise they will be worked through and he will really become something. Can that franchise really be the wiz?
Heaven forbid...
also, I’d just like to add, J.Tyler already has strong links to San Antonio, his coach and mentor in Japan Bob Hill coached in San Antonio and he is currently doing workouts there. I am being entirely irrational, but if the spurs draft and then make a success out of the kid, that would suck for everyone in the whole league. And it seems more and more like they have to swing for the fences now that the old pillars are, well, old(ing?)
They are college kids...
Who’ve never had to think twice about their diet until now. I only worry about the guy who’s weight coincides with his motor: Trey Thompkins. One flag too many.
yeah I am intrigued by Jeremy Tyler as well.
when you are the best player at every age group until you turn 17, that must count for something, right? It is hard to believe that he got worse by being humbled/.
Then again, that’s basically what happened ot Darko. Nevertheless, JTyler is worth keeping an eye on.
by John Park Williams on May 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
A mix
-PF/Johnson from Purdue could be a solid pick late 1, early 2. This year’s Taj Gibson?
-Marshon Brooks at 6’5, 7’1 wingspan.
-Klay Thompson bigger than expected at 6’7.
Somebody refresh my memory
In previous years, have the anticipated top-ten picks changed significantly in the weeks leading up to the draft? Seems like there are lots of tryouts, lots of interviews, and that this is the basketball equivalent of a a presidential campaign. Maybe next week everyone will be talking about Kawhi Leonard.
hmmmm
I’m 6’4" w/o shoes with 6’8" reach…..comparing myself to players my height man I have such short arms :(.
He's a T-rex
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on May 24, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Only compared to guys built to play basketball
It’s typical to have a wingspan equal to or slightly greater than your height. These guys are freaks.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
Also for reference
Trevor Booker 6’6.25" w/o 6’7.5" 236 weight w/ shoes 6’9.75" wingspan with 8’10" standing reach
Faried is essentially a lankier longer version of Booker (7’0" wingspan and 9’0" standing reach).
He is pretty much a booker clone, although I doubt he is as fast or as explosive as booker….would you guys really want faried?
yeah, I'd like an edit button as well
maybe the fear is that people would go back and change what they write, thereby confusing later readers? Who knows?
But sb nation is sooooo much better than any other “comment” site its not even funny.
by John Park Williams on May 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Kemba Walker really didn't measure well
So much for someone wanting him at 6 or picking him before 6.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
Standing reach was lowest of anyone (same as Nate Robinson's)
His wingspan was also only 6’3.5". As a guy not noted for being a great passer that’s going to hurt him in GM’s eyes. Somewhat better measurements dropped Chris Paul (who everyone knew could play point) behind Deron and Marvin Williams.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
i tihnk Kemba makes a lot of sense for the Kings
if he and Tyreke develop a good chemistry, that could be one tough-as-nails backcourt.
by John Park Williams on May 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
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