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Why doesn't the NBA host a mandatory pre-draft camp?

Like many of you on here, I am fervently against drafting any of the European players. It is not because I am a racist xenophobe who hosts a late night television show on Fox News, or because I harbor a vendetta against the former Soviet-bloc. Rather, I prefer college players over foreign players simply because I have seen (most) college players play and can reasonably estimate what they can contribute. But with regards to foreign players, I have to rely on heavily edited youtube clips with unbearable background music. We need better draft intel.

All youth basketball camps start out the exact same way. Whether its ankle biters or 5th-year-seniors, the campers spend Monday morning scrimmaging and running through standard drills. This gives the camp coaches a chance to scout the players they will be coaching the rest of the week. Then, just before lunch, the coaches draft their team for the week. 

Why can't this work in the NBA? Say the NBA invites 96 players to a draft camp held the week before the draft. These 96 players are the ONLY players eligible to be drafted. So, if you want to get drafted, you have to 1) get invited to the camp, and 2) attend the camp. 

The NBA can get 12 people, be it former coaches, players, announcers, (basically, anyone impartial) to serve as camp coaches. These 12 coaches will then each draft an 8-person team. The teams would then spend the rest of the week playing games and running through the drills. On Thursday or Friday, the playoffs would start with all the regular rules associated with a camp tournament. The main goal is to expose players as much as possible. 

In my opinion, the benefits of such a system would be countless:

1) We would be able to compare players in a 5-on-5 context. Ricky Rubio never wanted to workout with Brandon Jennings or Jrue Holiday because he knew his skills would not translate to a 1-on-1 game. By playing 5-on-5, a player's intangibles are much easier to quantify. (Conversely, we would be able to tell that Rubio was overrated, while Jennings and Holiday were underrated.)

2) A player's body language, temperament and comprehension skills would be on display. It would be easier to tell if a player was thoroughly uncoachable, a bad teammate, a clown, a "fiery competitor," etc. 

3) A camp would limit the ability of the agents to micromanage the scouting process. Agents limit teams' ability to adequately scout players by setting terms and conditions on the player's workout routine. For example, Donald Fegan did not allow YI Jianlian to workout against anyone. Thus, we were left with the hilarious video of YI Jianlian posting up a chair. A mandatory predraft camp would eliminate agents from the scouting process, giving scouts/coaches/generalmanagers unfeathered access to raw basketball. 

4) Level of competition problems would be eliminated. Evaluators would no longer have to discount a player's ability for their level of competition. So, rather than estimating what Jimmer Fredette would have done in the Big East and what Kemba Walker would do in the WCC, we can just have Fredette and Walker play against each other in camp. 

5) Equalizing the level of information. By limiting the eligible players to only the 96 guys invited to camp, the league puts all teams on an even playing field regarding scouts. If Milwaukee had scouts in Germany as good as the Mavericks, I doubt they trade Robert Traylor for Dirk Nowitzki. (Although some people may counter that this only penalizes well-managed teams who do the work; the free-rider problem.)

6) Best of all, the camp can be televised on NBATV. Easy revenue for the league during the summer time. 

What do people think of this idea?

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

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It sounds like you want to draft players

Maybe you should try to be an NBA scout. Teams have their vetting process and they do work players out privately. I think they have a pretty good idea of what a player can do because they scout them in middle school. They watch them for years. A player like Kanter has been on their radar since he was at least 14. There are scouts all over Europe hunting players down. Now they are all over Asia. Maybe the middle east. Grunfeld himself will fly off somewhere to watch a player. Look at Crawford, Saunders knew about him when he played in High School. Who knows how long Blatche was scouted. So while your idea is good for the general public, scouts follow players around for years. And now in the communication age, unless some player is shooting a rock through a whalebone, no one is getting missed anymore.
i don’t think they look at players and how they do against whatever competition as much as how they move and what they can do and the kind of personality they have and do they fit in to the team. Then they might ask are they competitive. But for the most part I think its the player in isolation. What can he do and is he good at it? Then you try to fit him with the team. So I don’t think camp does much. I think these teams know already who they want, its just hard getting them.

by hambonejackson on May 10, 2011 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Your city needs you? :)

The Nike Summit seems to be the limit on what such players are willing to commit to…but basically what you’re looking for is an international Combine?

by Bullet Nation in Exile on May 11, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

basically

the goal of the draft is to give every team the best possible player to help them win games. this requires great information. The information will be more reliable if all the players have competed against each other beforehand. If we got all the players in a centralized location playing basketball together, wouldn’t our knowledge of the players’ capabilities increase exponentially?

Instead of flying the players all across the country to do individual workouts, wouldn’t it make more sense for everyone to come together and play together? Isin’t that the whole point of the NBA?

by John Park Williams on May 11, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

For some to rise, others must fall

It’s one of those good ideas that probably won’t see daylight. What about a player that has a good season, or a great tournament? Too much too lose going up against guys looking to make a name, or started strong but disappointed, and are looking to get a leg back up.

by Bullet Nation in Exile on May 11, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love this idea but i also agree with Hambonejackson that most teams have plenty of intell on all the players

This is something that would have to be arranged through the new CBA and i don’t think its high on the priority list.

Good idea though, especially fantastic for us, the fans. They do it in football i believe, don’t they?

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on May 10, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

well the teams have scouts with info for sure

but the problem remains that Donatas Motiejunas has never played against Derrick Williams.

by John Park Williams on May 11, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good idea

but what would the ages of the draft eligible players be? The only way I can see this work is if all the players here completed their college eligibility if they’re American (or went to college in the case of a Vasquez/Songaila), or if these players are 22 the calendar year of the draft in the case of a non-American college player.

2nd, if this camp includes players who are not 22 or didn’t complete eligibility, should the player be drafted, can he still go back to college? NHL and MLB draftees can do this.

by thewiz06 on May 11, 2011 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

No way to make it mandatory.

Even if the league tried, players would just fake injuries to get out of it.

by Jheiser3 on May 11, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions  

when accounting firms, investment banks and law firms are hiring new associates

they first compile a list of 70 candidates, and then narrow that list down 12 or so, and then from that 12 they fill the 3 open spots. But if you are not among that original 70, you have no chance. My idea is premised on that.

by John Park Williams on May 11, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand the hiring model

I don’t think It applies. If you had assembled this group last year and John Wall refused, would the Wizards have taken him? Of course they would have. Its not that he isn’t a competitor. He had earned his position as the top pick through years of high school and college competition. If I’m his agent, why would I risk injury by forcing him to play more, in these ad-hoc situations with players he is unfamiliar with? It would be a glorified AAU setup, making the summer league look like a well oiled machine of team work.

How do you mandate that all players get equal chances? I’m not allowing my client to play, then possibly slip just because he and the PG don’t get along, or because the coach overseeing that squad didn’t run enough plays for him.

In theory it would be helpful. In reality its not workable.

by Jheiser3 on May 12, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

well it would be THE RULE

the Wizards couldn’t draft JWall unless he attended. Simple as that.

by John Park Williams on May 12, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

why didn't you just ay so, its a RULE. duh.

These players are not members of the union. So they can’t be forced to do anything. Saying its a rule is meaningless. The NBA would never be able to enact it through that players union or enforce it. Some teams wouldn’t want them to because even this camp is flawed in terms of player evaluations.You can’t force injured players to participate without opening yourself up to legal issues. anybody with a doctor’s note could get out of it.

People think the PIT is a joke, this thing would be embarrassing to the NBA, setting a new record for doctor’s notes.

by Jheiser3 on May 13, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

much the same way that the salary cap is a rule

why did LRMR agree to $110 million deal for LBJ when he is probably worth closer to $250 million? The salary cap forbids any team from paying more. Its the rule.

same idea. If the NBA was smart, and mandated that all its employees at the player level to go through the same hiring process, the league would benefit.

by John Park Williams on May 12, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

if only

but there isn’t. The salary cap is a collectively bargained parameter. there is no collective bargaining agreement with players who not yet part of the union. The NBA would be shooting themselves in the foot unnecessarily just by trying this type of thing, and they may not even get 20 teams to agree on what it would look like in the first place AND players could still get out of it.

ad legally, how is the NBA forcing these kids to do this for free? i think a labor lawyer wold have a field day.

unenforceable, unworkable, potentially illegal… until there is a dictator instead of a commissioner.

by Jheiser3 on May 13, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

not illegal. just trust me.

we are arguing over needlessly detailed specifics over a hypothetical.

my general point is that the NBA should centralize the scouting process. it would allow for transparent and equitable talent evaluation, help minimize draft busts, and offer fans better insight into incoming players.

by John Park Williams on May 13, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

why equitable? we are in the business of winning, not sharing.

Certain teams believe they have a specific advantage because of their scouting techniques and insights. Why would the Spurs, Mavs or Blazers want a centralized or one-size-fits-all scouting operation? They like finding a Batum or Parker while other teams flail and miss. They may see this as a competitive disadvantage.

they have a draft combine for measurements and some testing. they do as much as players and agents allow. That’s centralized testing. the rest needs to be gleaned from watching kids play in person.

by Jheiser3 on May 13, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

DraftExpress weighs in

“Drills and open gym type pickup games are fun to watch, but ultimately they teach you very little about a player’s actual pro potential.”

“Some players are very well suited to look good in that environment. Others aren’t. It doesn’t mean that they’ll be good or bad NBA players.”

This harpoons the premise that evaluations would be more accurate in this setting. You’re just assuming that you should know more because you’ve accumulated more data.

by Jheiser3 on May 13, 2011 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

True some suck at work outs and excell in a real game-type situation but

John Park Williams proposed a camp including a lot of 5 on 5, just like summer camp.

A deep week- or 10 day long trainingcamp would be a lot more insightfull than the group workouts the players do now for individual teams imo and to me the individual workouts like Wall did last yr or Yi and his chair are completely meaningless.

As far as making it a rule to attend, i think thats no problem at all. You have meet certain requirements already to be eligeble like the 1yr college rule and you also have put your name in the draft before certain dates etc. Look, the NBA is where the money is, so it has the leverage advandtage.

"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980

"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to dougie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)

by Dutch Hoopfan on May 15, 2011 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

well said

the reason why the “drills and open gym pickup games” are not indicative of a player’s success is precisely because they are not organized or regulated. I think JHeiser3 entirely misinterpreted DraftExpress’ point. They weren’t arguing for more individual workouts, but rather structured practices. Anyone who has ever played disorganized basketball knows that whomever has the biggest ego just dominates the ball (and usually loses).

If you took a guy like Jeff Van Gundy and gave him a team of 8 prospects, and allowed him to work for a week with them doing NBA-style drills and plays, how could that not help?

by John Park Williams on May 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

DX

DX was saying that even 5 on 5 team oriented workouts with prospects do NOT help you determine who will be a good pro and who won’t be.

You think it should, it makes sense that it should. All it does is tell you who is good in those specific situations which no more correspond to NBA than AAU corresponds to college ball.

by Jheiser3 on May 16, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

the goal of the draft workouts should be to imitate as closely as possible an NBA game

as long as the agents are manipulating it, this will never happen. the NBA needs to step in.

by John Park Williams on May 15, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

cry me a river

are agents manipulating the 40+ games a college kid plays in a single season? Are they manipulating the Euro-league seasons? No and no. They are acting in their client’s best interest before the draft. No other league gets as much from their potential draftees in pre-draft workouts as the NBA gets from theirs.

by Jheiser3 on May 16, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

again

those are collectively bargained requirements. the Union said yes to the age requirement wording etc. these players are not yet part of the union. where is the mechanism to enforce this camp? far as i can tell there isn’t one. If there was it would be in place by now.

as an agent there’s no way i’m handing over my client for a week to 10 days so you NBA front office shlubs can try to figure things out. he’s been playing ball his whole life. he has a year or two of college tape. go watch it. there’s no way to force him to attend without opening yourself up to lawsuits. Example: Is the NBA going to medically insure all participants?

Point is, and was within the DX content, that even 5 on 5 camps wouldn’t separate the pros from the non-pros. In your mind you think it should because there is more data. The same flawed scouting will still be in place. The same flawed scouts will still be making judgements on players they’ve seen for a couple days, based on body language, eye contact etc. As long as the people doing the scouting and drafting are human there will be draft busts. scouts can see teh exact same performance and come away with wildly different views. No way around it.

by Jheiser3 on May 16, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Co-Sign

I understand the intent. I think its flawed logic. I don’t think such an event would be all that helpful (as pointed out above), nor would it be enforceable towards the draftees. And there’s no point in limiting the draft pool. A law firm may take a pool of 70 candidates and narrow it down. But there’s nobody creating a pool that all law firms must pull out of. In fact, such actions would be considered in violation of Antitrust law. The CBA helps get around antitrust violations, but these players are not members of the union and not bound by the CBA.

Also, don’t understand why you’d want to take away from scouting. It seems like you want a foolproof way of assuring the best prospects going to the worst teams. At some point you’re going down the slippery slope of just having the NBA assign players to teams. Fact is there’s always going tobe busts. And the teams have to rely on their own scouting skills to avoid them.

by Rooper on Jun 2, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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