John Wall leads, everyone else fills in as Wizards win third in a row
by Mike Prada on Apr 6, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintWASHINGTON D.C. - John Wall saw something he hasn't seen much of this season at the end of the Wizards' 107-105 win over the Pistons. As he came off screens, he saw the Pistons' big men trying to trap and control him, when normally they would be dropping off and daring him to shoot his still-developing jumper.
That served Wall just fine. As the Pistons tried to contain him in vain, Wall took the game over, scoring 16 fourth-quarter points to lift the Wizards to a 107-105 win. He sliced through the Pistons' defense, scoring all of those points either on shots in the paint or on free throws, and he punctuated the win with a breakaway jam to give the Wizards the lead for good.
"Certain teams trap me to try to get the ball out of my hands, and some teams do a hard show," Wall said. "Coach told me that once they do that, just go with a full head of steam at the guard. That's what I've learned. I'm still learning, but I'm figuring out ways to pick it apart."
It wasn't all about beating the traps, of course. The Wizards scored 30 points in transition, and Wall was particularly deadly at that in the fourth quarter. Coach Flip Saunders also said he doesn't always like Wall running pick and roll, because he thinks he is better at creating off the dribble on his own.
"Our bigs have a tendency to always run out and set screens, and I don't always want to do that. I'd like to keep our bigs around the basket and let John penetrate on his own, and he can either find them low or they can get some offensive boards," Saunders said.
But make no mistake about it: Wall's pick and roll game has improved. The obvious reason is that he has more experience running it, with a year of experience under his belt. Another possibility, though, is that he finally has a good set of complements to make it happen. Running a good pick and roll requires five guys in tune, and the Wizards may finally have that.
Andray Blatche, for one, looks healthy again. Blatche had 26 points and 10 rebounds, his third straight outstanding game. It's tempting to compare this stretch to his strong finish last year and assume this is fool's gold again, but Saunders said that would be a mistake.
"Last year, he may have gotten a little frustrated if he didn't get the ball," Saunders said. "Now, he's doing the things that he's supposed to do defensively, and he tried to rebound. He knew that we would come back to him, and he made some big plays down the stretch and made free throws."
Then, there are the Atlanta newcomers. Mo Evans had a really good game last night (20 points on 13 shots), while Jordan Crawford (17 points on 17 shots) did not, but both provide much-needed traits for this roster. Evans provides the closest thing to the "3 and D" small forward we keep talking about. He has shooting range, will play his role and will not try to do things he can't do. He also plays his butt off every night, even if he isn't playing well.
"Guys look to me a lot for confidence, for encouragement and just for the experience that I have," Evans said. "It's much needed. For example, with John [Wall] and I, they kept setting a pick and roll with Tayshaun [Prince] and [Will] Bynum. We communicated and we figured out how we were going to make adjustments with that play. I think that's what we've been lacking, that communication."
It's one of the little things Evans has provided recently. His future is a bit cloudy, because he's a free agent that will be 33 at the start of next season, but the Wizards could absolutely use a guy like him next year, even if it's not him.
The future looks a lot clearer for Crawford. Last night was one of those nights where the idiosyncratic nature of his game shines through. He took a lot of poor shots and made a lot of poor decisions, yet the rest of the team feels a level of comfort with him out there. Wall seems to like that Crawford provides another playmaker of sorts, either for himself or for others, and echoed what his coach said before the game about how Crawford provides a more diverse array of skills than Nick Young.
"Nick's a straight, great scorer," Wall said. "Jordan's a scorer, and he can be a playmaker at times. That's the big difference. He's different and a better playmaker."
All these factors are playing a role in the Wizards' first three-game winning streak in three years. It's reasonable to wonder about whether the winning streak means much of anything when it comes during a meaningless stretch like this. Last season's Wizards finished relatively well last season, only to flop out of the gate at the beginning of this year. The same could very easily happen next year.
Saunders, however, believes that won't happen.
"Some of the guys that were involved in our success this year, we didn't bring back," Saunders said, specifically mentioning Shaun Livingston and James Singleton. "The difference is, most of these guys are going to be coming back for us."
A three-game winning streak against Cleveland, Charlotte and Detroit isn't much, but with the same pieces likely in place next year, there's no reason they can't carry this strong play over to whenever the next NBA season begins. That is, once this season ends.
"It's just like, you're a man at the end of the day," Crawford said. "You don't want to just go out there and lose. It ain't what nobody is about, and it ain't what I'm about. It's not about the future. It's about winning right now."
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Blatche's carry-over...
I’m really enjoying Blatche’s effort right now. The fact that he’s looking to go to the rim instead of settling for the outside shot. He always seems to be in the paint and is making many plays there, playing big. He has to carry it over to next year. People are so
eager to see him traded for a no. 1 pick, blah, blah, blah….Blatche can stuff all that by
continuing his current effort, and carrying it over to the beginning of next season!
I can't believe Wall said JC > playmaker than NY.
I like it though, you just dont hear about a rookie deciphering weather someone better suits a position, John basically said Crawford would oppose more versatility at the position than Nick, and that says alot.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
I was surprised
that Johnny Wall came right out and said that too. Do you think there was some missing context? Or was this intended to fire up Nick? If I was Nick, I’m not sure that would make me feel too hot.
What does a three game winning streak
With Nick Young riding the pine, say about the mini-debate over Crawford and Nick? I know what the more intuitive minds around here might say. They might argue it is silly to think that we are winning just because our most effective and efficient scorer is hurt. They might say you could just as easily argue we are winning because Yi is getting Booker’s minutes. But there is more to basketball than shooting percentages. I am of the belief that their are things, that, at times, are so in depth that numbers could not even begin to measure them. I’m not talking about some killer instinct that Crawford may have that Nick doesn’t. I’m talking more about the idea that a combination might just work better than others.
And I don’t quite know where I stand in this debate right now, just giving food for thought. Luckily, nobody has to make any drastic decisions today or tomorrow(or the next day). We resign Nick and keep it not outrageous, and both will have value to other teams if we one day decide that we don’t need both on the team. In the meantime, both guys can play, because we really don’t know who is the better fit right now. Can’t wait until next year when both guy when both guys get to show what they can do, because it is really easy to be a prisoner of the moment.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
Could they be prisoners of the moment, as much as anybody?
They could be caught up on the idea that they just won three straight, and the easy explanation in people’s minds is the “shiny new toy”.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably
I just thought it was interesting how both were so complimentary when I asked to compare JC and Nick.
Flip said something like “JC is multi-dimensional.” John, obviously, said that.
Also...it could be someone like Wall who sees 3 wins
and mixes causation with correlation….
It could be him playing better and differently as much as JC, but at 19 that is a hard one to reinforce…
certainly interesting words coming out of Wizards camp…
Again...I point to Ted's Take
Well he promoted an article that said not signing Ben Gordon at 25 even those he was the leading scorer was a smart move for Chicago.
It is one of two things. Negotiation strategy. Or they are resolved to dumping NY and drafting a backup combo or 2 in the draft….
Certainly putting a lot of trust in JC based on 10 games.
Add the owner...
A new big three has announced its arrival – Wall, Crawford and Blatche. Big minutes – big productivity – big results. And wins, too.
If I am Nick
I am pissed.
And that is a stupid comment by Leonsis, in my opinion. Why dub Crawford part of a big three, why dub him anything at all? That just leaves room for disappointment when our top pick is better than Jordan, or when Nick is resigned and wins the starting job, or if Crawford struggles and gets discouraged.
Maybe Jordan is our best player next year, but comments like this, less than 15 starts into his career, could cause a guy to stop working as hard. Or maybe he has a ton of struggles, and he puts pressure on himself because of comments like these, and the pressure beats him. Or he is discouraged because after all the hype, Nick is still the starting SG.
I could just as easily be reading way too much into this. But comments like this from the guy who puts his signature on the paychecks, might carry some weight to a young guy who, two months ago, couldn’t even get playing time.
And what about Javale??? Guy is working his tail off, and then he sees Andray Blatche anointed as the team’s third star. If I know Javale’s mentality, he has gotta think he is at least as important as Andray Blatche.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think if we run into problems like those,
then you have to question the makeup of the players themselves.
agree 100%
and Ted surely knows enough about basketball to see the major flaws in JCs game that need fixin before he can be anointed anything. I really like Crawford a lot…but shiny new toy syndrome seems to be in full effect
Same
I love me some JC. But let the guy keep working for his job, let the competition ensue next season. What is going on is obviously working, let the thing play itself out.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
there is no question JC is an elite playmaker
kid has mad skills….but i would have liked to hear Flip temper things a bit with some talk of defense- as he did 10,000x with Nick and Javale.
of course, this is all probably part of contract negotiations more than anything else. Just as I’m convinced Flip was directed to pump up Kirk constantly for his trade value, it’s also smart business to let Nick know they will go in another direction if need be.
I hope that is the explanation
Because the thought crossed my mind too, that Flip preached discipline and defense to Nick and Javale primarily. And criticized them for relentlessly, until they improved it. And now Crawford gets to come and and do a lot of what he wants… What are they to think???
But if Nick is what I think he is, I doubt this phases him. I think he will keep getting better, and therefor Jordan Crawford better keep getting better too.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
that was an incredibly stupid comment by Leonsis. That “Big 3” concept does not apply to this team — it doesn’t fit, and it diminishes the contributions of others.
Sometimes I wish Ted would just keep quiet.
he also wrote a seperate piece in support of AB. ironically linkng to the wash post which he just blasted lol
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
arent they on a 2011 season ticket push right now…comments seem to fit that agenda
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Big statement by the owner
I’m a Crawford supporter, but still i would have waited or maybe not mentioned anything about a new big three. NY is probably seething if he saw this, I’d be. What Nick did for this team early on was great, I’d prefer not to distance Key players (of the future) from Nick. I’d still love to resign the guy.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
i dont look at it as an either or…i think all three complement each other. starting really doesnt matter as much as minutes played and salary. lamar odom is a starter on most teams and doesnt start. also, he is the fourth highest paid player on the team.
but they do complement each other…JC and JW can create plays…and hopefully one day shoot at a hgher percentage and play better defense. NY is the best pure shooter and could be a better defender against bigger players.
it’s a good core of three to develop.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Is anyone else excited that Javale has been getting assists the past few games?
I haven’t heard too much about it, but I think it’s a major step forward for him. It shows me that he’s finally starting to get some court vision. This was a huge hole in his game. If this is a trend, he should have a major uptick in his game next year.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Apr 6, 2011 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed 100%
It shows growth and maturity. I’ve been one of his biggest supporters his whole career, but through a lot of this year, I was starting to doubt whether he’d ever “get it.” The past couple of weeks have been a revelation.
He still tries to do too much, like take the ball at the top of the key and dribble to the basket instead of passing back out and establishing low-post position; but he’s starting to do things like look for cutters and open players when he’s doubled. It’s been a subtle, but significant, step.
absolutely....imho it's because he's getting more touches
clearly he’s getting more and more comfortable with the ball in his hands, doesnt feel rushed as much nor like Flip will sit him for a mistake. Some of his assists have been pretty nice too.
Javale is just scratching the surface of what he can be offensively, lots of reason for optimism imo
If NY has a good game and the Wiz lose, and JC has his worst game
and the Wizards win what does that tell you? Nick will bring fire off the bench when healthy in 3rd and 4th quarters next year if Eddie keeps him, but JC’s our 4. A bonified future superstar. Now we have two diamonds in the backcourt and punch off the bench. I actually like JCs defense better than NIck’s. He has rookie lapses but it never gets to him. When NY gets owned it gets in his head.
With JC in the game Javale and Dray are much more efficient. It’s not hard to figure out why. When your first option is a long range fall away the miss starts the break for the other team. The Wizards are so much better with JC in there. Look at the potential of a team that plays the whole game like the first quarter with Detriot.
PS I went over to the Piston’s blog. They are so down on their guys, they didn’t bother to put up a game thread.
by Janber on Apr 6, 2011 9:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If NY has a good game and the Wiz lose, and JC has his worst game and the Wizards win what does that tell you?
It tells me not to make too much out of one game…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 6, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about 5 games?
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
by skinbo on Apr 6, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Still too small a sample size...
With too many variables. The biggest difference-maker in this win streak, IMO, is Blatche, who’s been a monster.
I also like what Jordan’s done, and would be fine with him starting next year over Nick. I think one of his best attributes is that he puts more pressure on the defense than Young, which opens up more opportunities for easy scores and higher-percentage shots. Nick’s been invaluable for the team this year, though.
It’s a good problem to have!
you are correct.
a little competition at the SG position can only make both players better, but I also think the total package out-weighs just scoring. Nicks a great scorer, but I also think Jordan can offer so much more (scoring, Assists, Rebounds, etc.)
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
and by the way...Nick Young and JC are averaging
the same amount of defensive rebounds per game…JC is averaging .6 more offensive rebounds. That is likely due to two things. Nick’s fall away on his own shots, and what seems like his responsibility to get back on D, which Crawford doesn’t seem to have. But that is really an unknown.
My point is they are averaging basically the same. But it JC seems to be more willing to mix it up even if he doesn’t get the board.
There are other people playing a ton better
and differently…see Blatche and McGee…
Could have to do with JC…but there is a larger picture…and I am not ready to make a final determination of root cause..
but JC’s our 4
??
1= PG
2=SG
3=SF
4=PF
5 = C
Unless you’re talking about the Wizards forming a softball team, and JC will be the second baseman, I don’t see JC as the Wizard’s future 4……
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 6, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Im pretty sure you knew what he meant.
why you gotta try to make yourself look smarter, and others less?
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
maybe he meant fourth best player…like boston has a big four. he is obviously not a PF!
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
No I screwed up the post 4 should be 2 and Eddie should be Ernie. I should of caught both mistakes.
I like NY. So does everybody else I just think He’s the perfect 6th man to rotate in at the 2 and 3.
by Janber on Apr 6, 2011 7:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agree with everything you said.
When Nick is off, he isn’t able to bounce back, his attitude gets the better of him and forces him to be down on himself. JC was semi-cold last night, but showed no emotion, just kept shooting and making important shots(slipped, jumped up and still scored). JC is more of the total package, he can get 10 asts (prooven), can get 10 + reb’s (prooven). What Nick does well is shoot, but thats about it, rarely passes, dont really ever see him banging for a reb. saw Crawford banging with 6 11 Greg Monroe last night, you would never see Nick doing that.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
by skinbo on Apr 6, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
monroe is a keeper though for sure
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
JC is better for the team
Both JC and NY put up a lot of shots but JC ｇｅｔｓ ｈｉｓ ｔｅａｍｍａｔｅｓｉｎｖｏｌｖｅｄ ａｎｄ ｐｌａｙｓ ｂｅｔｔｅｒ ｄｅｆｅｎｃｅ．ＮＹ ｉｓ ｓｅｌｆｉｓｈ ａｎｄ ｈｅ ｃａｎ＇ｔ ｗｉｎ ｇａｍｅｓ ｂｙ ｈｉｍｓｅｌｆ．Anyone would hate to be his teammates.There is a reason why we lost so many games with him. ＪＣis definitely more valuable to the team.
Do you watch wizards games???
NY clearly has better defense. NY isn’t that selfish because he just doesn’t touch the ball that much. He does jack up shots as does JC but NY plays off the ball. There is a place for both of these young studs on this team.
by Meraj Chowdhury on Apr 6, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Im sure he watches Wiz games, he wouldn't be here if he didn't
I was a little surprised by some of the D Crawford has been playing, the steals, the rebounding, he’s willing to bang with anyone. Sometimes his man gets away but he’s gonna get better, dudes just a rook.
Twitter: @GatorNeedHisGat
Nick Young won the Utah game by himself earlier this year
and basically kept the team in the Lakers game and Miami game single handedly…so you point is an exaggeration.
Young + Crawford = great 'problem' to have
They complement each other because their games are so different. The only thing they really share in common is the fact that they’re volume shooters and they both will primarily play SGs (young can slide to the 3, crawford can slide to the 1). Crawford has a more fluid offensive game, better court vision, and a certain mojo, but will put up an inefficient offensive game. Young is a consistent efficient scorer, who can get his shot off from anywhere on the floor, and will defend your best perimeter player, but who struggles creating shots for himself or others.
Crawford put the team on his back a few games ago, but let’s not all forget that Young has done that on several occasions in his time here (and a few times this year). Young has had games where he’s combined stupidly efficient scoring with great defense against the opposition’s best player.
With Young, you’re gonna get 20 efficient points guaranteed, every night, and you’re going to get solid defense to go along with it. With Crawford you might get an inefficient 15 or a hot-hand 30, but you’re going to get 5 assists and 5 rebounds to go along with it. In other words, its not an either or proposition.
The biggest difference I see is that Crawford’s a natural, whereas Young needed time and guidance to develop into a useful player. But that’s okay, there’s room in the world for both types of people…
How about we recognize how fortunate we are to have both. I can almost guarantee that this backcourt (JW, JC, NY) will not all retire as wizards, so let’s celebrate this ‘problem’ while it lasts! There are much worse problems to have.
by jones-y on Apr 6, 2011 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You get a rec from me...
I think some of Nick’s issues in people’s eyes come from prior years. That is some of his fault, some of the prior regimes.
But the interesting thing here, is the Mike basically gave Flip and Wall and opportunity to say something similar to what you wrote, and on multiple occasions they have chosen not to.
That is telling.
Thanks for the rec. It is noteworthy.
But that’s about all it is to me. The old toy is on the shelf in need of a repair, the new toy is bringing lots of real excitement.
And anyway, Flip and Wall were talking about one side of the ball. You expect that, perhaps from a rookie PG, but not from the coach. Perhaps they all secretly know that there’s an elite defender inside Crawford, and they just aren’t telling. Perhaps they’re trying to boost the rookie’s confidence. Perhaps they feel like Young is mature and stable enough to not be affected by praise directed at Crawford. Perhaps a little bit of each. But Typically, fans chew on this stuff a lot more than players or coaches do.
i think u have a couple things going on here. we have had a dismal year. we were close to setting records for road losses. we hadnt won three in a row in three seasons. we didnt even have good visability to 20 wins.
they want to sell tickets for next year, understandably. so any buzz they can drum up after what we labored through is to be expected.
also, they could want to try extending nick young and there is some posturing going on. he fits the description of what time wants- develop in house talent and reward him. one thing i can say about NY is that he humbled himself and is developing into the role flip sees for him. specifically, he has been asked to become more of a spot up shooter and not play one on one.
so i think at least one, both or more things are in play. because clearly, no one on this team has played hard enough, consistently enough, and developed enough to earn superstar status- yet. though there are players at various points of progress.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
This is all wrong.
Blatche has actually been terrible lately. Jordan Crawford is doomed to be the next CJ Watson. I mean, he’s a rookie and all, but he is what he is. All Wizards not named John Wall actually have ceilings as 10th men at-best on winning teams. At least this is what I learned from Jay Glassie, who is a simply terrible beat reporter. Just awful. Come on 980, give him a one-way plane ticket to Miami so he can follow LeBron around. So sick of that guy.
by Redford on Apr 6, 2011 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I just heard that too
I was disappointed to hear him basically keep on blasting the team and not really acknowledging any of these guys’ effort. He essentially dismissed Jordan Crawford on air, despite being a Rookie, and saying he’s no better than a 3rd or 4th guard on a championship team. I mean as much as I like Glassie, I don’t think that’s a fair analysis of Crawford seeing as he’s the 4th leading rookie scorer in the NBA and who knows what his ceiling can be.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Apr 6, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad you posted about this
I caught a few minutes of that interview on 980, and was stunned how off Glassie was on a range of issues. His take on Blatche was seriously off — he claimed the Wizards are stuck because Blatche puts up meaningless stats and is paid like a franchise player. (Blatche will make $6.2 million next year, which is about the average of a 4th to 6th best player on most other NBA teams.)
by disgrunted on Apr 6, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's why the Wiz have a giant black cloud following them around
in the eyes of people who don’t follow the team. The Cowherd’s and Glassie’s act like they are informed, but really spew their negative senseless “knowledge” onto the easy maleable minds that have very few sources after the network.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
everything changes with winning. when they win more consistently, the storyline will change. much ado about nothing. if i am ted am not too thrilled though- harder to sell tickets
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I know
when they start winning again there will be Wall fans from LA to Miami to Toronto… =(
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont understand y everyone swears nick young is soooo efficient
he shoots 44% from the field…not exactly that efficient, especially considering he’s supposed to be more of a catch and shoot/spot up shooter type of player…he also takes ridiculous fadeaway jumpers and will freeze everyone out….he doesnt drive enough so hedoesnt get freethrows (help with efficiency) or put pressure on a defense…he does play good man defense but is still horrible as far as a team defender…
I’m not trying to say he is a bad player…but i think we’re overvaluing his efficiency in comparison to crawfords…
and i think most importantly…does anyone else think nick has to take the L when the arguement can even be made comparing a 4th year player vs a rookie????….sorry but the fact that this can even be a debate I feel gives the edge to crawford
Nick's TSP% before he got hurt was around 56-57% (elite territory)
Jordan’s is 46% on the season (but a little better since he joined the Wizards). The major difference is Nick’s superior 3 pt shooting
30% of Young's shots were three pointers. He's shooting 39% from three point range for the year.
On actual 2pt FGAs he’s shooting 46%. He averages 3.6 free throws per game.
Those are the numbers of an efficient scorer.
I dont know
I hear you guys on the stats…but just doesnt pass the eye test to me…
well that 39% from three was top 3 in the league for his peer group, which consists of other volume shooters
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Scoring efficiency isn't an "eye test" stat.
Either you are or are not. Stats, in this case, are the determining factor.
The problem is people are using the wrong math
so the stats that are thrown around are sort of blither. The 1st test is the Saunders test. Does he want you on the floor? The next test is the Saunders test, does he want you to stay on the floor? Then the 3rd Saunders test is, does he want you to start? Stats don’t bench players, Flip Saunders does. He is the decider.
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh, that has no relevance at all...
To this discussion. Scoring efficiency is a stat, and that’s all it is. It’s not an “eye test” or anything else. Of course, how it’s used is another matter. But the stat itself is just that — a mathematical formula.
there is a whole fan post on NY and his shooting efficiency. he’s pretty good- especially pre-injury. he has other limitations. regardless, it comes down to price. and no one expects him to command a premium. some of the things he does this team needs and he does them pretty well- specifically hit the open jumper and play defense. JC brings other skills to the table, and there is 96 minutes of playing time those guys can split- plenty to go around with room for a fourth.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
my post wasnt to say get rid of nick young…or that JC should be starter….personally i think his ceiling is jamal crawford or jason terry…which is essentially a very good 6th man….nick young has a much higher ceiling…and could be a legit shooting guard…especially if he had JC’s attitude and bball IQ
sorry didnt complete what i was saying
which is that nick young to me has only shown he is going to be an average player so far…and that I wouldnt go so far as to call him efficient despite what the numbers say
Well then what is your definition of efficient?
He turns the ball over at a remarkably low rate (7.5%). He has a reasonable (22.2%) usage rate. He’s an efficient shooter, especially was before getting injured. I understand there are other knocks on his game (rebounding and playmaking) If it is your personal opinion that NY is inefficient then so be it, I just can’t understand why
again
I dont have the stats like you…but I just dont think the stats tell the whole story here…just watching these games I dont see him as a smart and efficient player…
by your same logic, our best players are blatche and mcgee, with mcgee having the highest PER out of everyone on our team….sorry, but I just dont buy that…doesnt pass the eye test again
javale isnt far from being our best player
and it passes the eye test IMHO.
of course, that’s also why we’re towards the very bottom of the league
He is by far not the best player
but he is improving and he needs to continue to improve and that means a dedicated off seaon. They could bring the whole team back if they wanted to. I honestly don’t see too many players walking.
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
actually he is pretty close to being the team's best player
i suspect if he was forcefed 17FGAs/night he’d still shoot at a higher clip than either Wall or Crawford and probably quickly get better. Javale is that talented and it’s getting more obvious by the day he could become a real offensive weapon.
That said, he does have huge holes in his game and needs to improve a lot.
Surrounding pieces
Don’t forget that Young was putting up these same numbers when Blatche and McGee were playing like trash, our vet presence (Shard) wasn’t bringing energy like Mo, Armstrong was getting heavy minutes as the reserve 5, Yi was getting big minutes as the reserve 4, Booker was still adjusting to the league and trying to get PT, Wall was a few months younger in his rookie season, Cartier Martin and Kirk were seeing more minutes, no one was playing defense, and don’t forget that we were fresh off the adjustment to trading Gil.
Have some perspective, Young was shining when this squad was in shambles. What makes you think his game wouldn’t elevate if he were healthy now and running with this more energetic, motivated and scrappy squad?
by gorebd on Apr 6, 2011 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I like Crawford
but I Iike Nick also. Its not an either/or situation. I think they will combine with Wall to form an effective 3 guard rotation.
As for the recent success while Nick’s been out? Umm, Utah, Cleveland, Charlotte, and Detroit. The quality of the opposition is a bigger factor of the success than Nick’s absence.
As much as the Crawford has been important to the play of the team
he isnt nearly as important as the play of Andray and JM. The inprovement of Javale and especially Andray has been the key to are success, and will be the key to how well we do next year.
by spanishfalcon on Apr 6, 2011 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
The debate
For those of you thinking that this debate over NY and JC is not necessary and/or think NY is superior to JC and should be signed by the Wiz, I would like to claim that this debate is nessary and that Ted should pack NY’s bags and say bye.
When you have a rookie, who is arguably as good as NY who is in his 4th year (?), in a either or scenario, without salary being involved, you should take the rookie. When the older guy (NY) is in his contract year and it is very likely that someone is going to give him decent money, you should take the rookie AND say “SEE YA!” to NY. Why? It is not a good idea to overpay someone when there is already another player who is playing as good as him. Also, we need to think about if it is a good idea to pay more for someone who could be coming off the bench while the starter (Crawford) is making less money than he is. I say starter because all of the parties that matter most to the franchise (Ted, Wall, and Saunders) seem high on Crawford. So why poke JC in the eye and have NY come off the bench making much more money than him? I wonder how Crawford would feel in this scenario. It is like someone at your job making more money than you but giving the same output.
Let’s save our money, and use it wisely.
why are we so worried about hurting JC's feelings?
He has no bargaining power. He’s a rookie who’s played 15 good games and couldn’t get on the court in Atlanta. No one is saying overpay NY. We need Crawford coming off the bench anyways
So JC is a slave from Atlanta
Some things never appear to change.
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Worried cause
He is a rookie that is great. In fact if there was a redraft of this past year’s draft he would be in the top 5, in my opinion at least. You want to keep your main core players happy, and I consider JC as part of that core. I just think that JC > NY, since he is only a rookie that is very good and could get much better. If we don’t have to overpay for NY, then maybe it is a good idea to sign him, but I highly doubt that some other team won’t reach for him.
Also remember, that people in their contract years usually play their best game (Re: Blatche @ the end of last year). Not to say that NY won’t perform like this or better, but that is also another risk of signing him. NY does have a tendency to put up 30 points, then the next game put up 8 points.
Kind of doubt it
Wall
Turner
Favors
Johnson
Cousins
Bledsoe
Monroe
Fields
by MR on Apr 6, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, I'd take Booker over Crawford
by Mike Prada on Apr 6, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Different Strokes for Different Folks
Nothing against Booker as I am happy he is on our team, but give me a rookie that can put up a triple double with a high ceiling than a rookie with a low ceiling that seems to be a career double double guy.
Even in the last game JC showed how well he can move the ball
so I wouldn’t be so presumptious re: the career of rookies. Now you would take Booker, but lets see what JC can do when he is Bookers age.
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Really??
Take Crawford on trade value alone. Not to mention, his ability to do things like keep you in games against the Miami Heat, nearly single handedly.
Maybe the most outrageous Prada comment I have ever read, to be honest.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 6, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Dray wasnt in his contract year.
And Crawford is a late 1st round pick who didnt stick with the team that drafted him and got a shot due to Nick’s injury. The organization doesnt need to worry about pleasing him, wiz have his rights for years. There will come a day when Crawford’s shot jacking will be counterproductive and Flip will have to reign him in. Last thing we need imo is for J Craw to already feel annointed here because he scored a few points on 38%FG
but dont get me wrong, i love what i see from him
The 1st thng this team needs is for Crawford to hit those shots
Let him fire away
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
"there will come a day"
certainly not this season. But next season he needs to take less shots and make more of them.
Well
Crawford didn’t get a shot at Atlanta because he was playing behind JJ and Jamal. Nick Young would not get the chance to shine in Atlanta either. Also, yes JC jacks up shots, but lets remember he is a rookie and as a rookie I think we should all be very impressed for what he has done in 15 starts.
and he has to play
But I see that back court of Wall and Crawford and I think it will work.
by hambonejackson on Apr 6, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
what have you seen that indicates it will be a better tandem than
what Monta/Curry do in GSW? No doubt incredibly fun to watch, but no one is mistaking it for championship style basketball
well i think we are all in agreement about paying too much for nick’s services. that number is debatable but MLE or under seems to be the ceiling for most- that is 5.5mm or so. to your point though, the reason u try to resign nick to that ceiling or lower is because the owner specifically stated he wants a culture where if you are young, do what we ask of you, and develop, you will be rewarded. we have a 60 mm dollar pay roll this year. i imagine next year will be similar. we have loads of cap flexibility and if they keep the slate clean by not signing free agents, we will be in a good position to resign our key players when most of the key core become free agents in 2015. so we can resign nick painlessly and motivate the others if it’s a four year contract or a front loaded contract if longer than 4 years. this is a good problem. there are plenty of minutes for all three. if we can keep nick affordably, we will know in three/four years when we really have to decide who to keep
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I posted the "Drinking the Kool Aid" bit when JC was acquired
and I love watching the kid play. Isn’t anybody a little bit concerned that JC might be Gilbert Arenas 2.0 minus the shooting accuracy? Normally I would say awesome but after the failed Gilbert thing it makes me queezy to see us promoting a chucker to the starting two guard slot next to a true point guard. JC is a “scoring point guard,” is he not? I know we talked about this before, but I didn’t see much debate in this thread about how JC meshes with the Great Wall in that they are both point guards. NY has all of the physical attributes to be a better two guard for this team than JC, but JC has all the flash, swagger and creativity. It’s like we have half a loaf with both. There is a lot of talk about this being “a good problem to have,” but I’m not so sure. We need ballers. We need a Big Three (even if we don’t say it), and it’s hard for me to see NY or JC being one of those guys. I am afraid that NY is the next coming of Calbert Chaney, and JC will jack up too many shots to be effective and will get abused by bigger 2s.
JC could pose as a problem
So far JC hasn’t had the same off the court issues as Arenas. He also probably doesn’t have the same ego as Arenas either. I would like to see how he does next year before labeling him anything as of yet. Trust me one way or another you would rather have Arenas 2.0 at a rookie salary than Arenas 2.0 with a huge salary and a gimp leg. So if Crawford does become Arenas 2.0, we will get a lot in return for him (in a trade). So imo, I can only wish he becomes Arenas 2.0
the failed Gilbert thing
was about waaayyyy more than playing style.
Anyway, Crawford’s game doesn’t remind me of Gilbert at all. The only attribute he has that is reminiscent of Gil is the fact that he’s a gamer. And like height, you can’t teach that. And it certainly is not something to be concerned about. Its something to celebrate.
He’ll obviously need to learn the pro game, and he’ll need to learn how to pick his spots, but he’s got a bright future.
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