Flip Saunders and Ernie Grunfeld are the right leadership to take the Wizards into the future
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 11:19 AM EDT
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PrintIt's taken a perfect storm of injuries, a coach few believed could bring along young players, and a GM praised and demonized for the Big 3 era to get the cast of the Wizards playing how we hoped they would. We're getting our fourth quarter games, and hopefully that momentum carries into the offseason (and remains unaffected by a prospective lockout...)
To be frank, at this point, I'm comfortable with both Flip Saunders and Ernie Grunfeld staying where they are for at least another year.
Flip still loves that zone like women stuck in the 80's love their perm, but Doc Rivers had plenty of his own trouble before Danny Ainge worked his magic. Maybe Flip works out and maybe he doesn't, but I don't think there's a question he's been invigorated by the challenge. When I see him on the sidelines he's animated, he's coaching everyone. As some of us have pointed out, giving Javale McGee extra leash seems to have elevated his game. Maybe most will want to give credit to Gene Banks or Javale himself, but even in a worst case scenario, Javale doesn't get on the floor or stay in the game without Flip being willing to try something new.
Hawks fans are still anguished over Larry Drew's unwillingness to play Jeff Teague and are in a state of polite disbelief concerning Jordan Crawford. Many are discussing rebuilding around Al Horford. For once, we aren't Hornets fans discussing whether or not Monty Williams' decision to bury Marcus Thornton on the bench and Dell Demps' subsequent decision to trade him to the Kings makes one nore culpable than the other. With Grunfeld at the helm that hasn't been us. There are no Chris Webber/Richard Hamilton/Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace situations waiting to rear up like the ghost of Christmas past. I defended the Kirk Hinrich trade and the decision to swap draft picks with Minnesota. At this point it's laughable to think anyone besides Bill Simmons would criticize the Atlanta trade. Our major criteria for Ernie was that he show evidence of the ability to get us players that would work together, to create a contender that would go farther than the Big 3 did. Hasn't he made a good start?
I'm tired of the argument that so few GMs get the chance to clean up their own mess. If a GM candidate showed up right after Gungate happened and said, ‘I can dump Antawn Jamison,Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, and Deshawn Stevenson for a few picks, marginal young guys, and expirings,' we'd have been listening. If that same guy said, ‘In the offseason, we'll have multiple first round picks and pick up a high character veteran on the cheap to fill the leadership gap,' we'd be nodding. If he said, ‘Gilbert Arenas will be traded by midseason for a slightly better contract, but for a personality that won't distract anyone, and will finally let us move on. P.S. I will also trade our high character veteran to a middleweight contender looking to move up in weight class for their first round draft pick, a prospect we had rated highly last year, an expiring, and some backcourt help to replace our veteran,' we'd be handing him a contract, right?
Of course, hindsight can easily be slanted, but I don't think it's difficult to say Ernie has done very well with the opportunities and challenges thrown his way. Who's to say a new GM doesn't look to make a further break with the old regime at the trade deadline by trading Nick Young while his value is high along with, say Javale McGee and Kirk Hinrich, for an ‘All-Star' in Andrew Bynum? Maybe he includes Trevor Booker and we can enjoy our very own Shannon Brown. This could have gone so much worse up until this point on both the coaching and personnel fronts, but everyone has their own view on it. What's yours?
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Hawks fans are slitting their wrists over Larry Drew’s unwillingness to play Jeff Teague and are in a state of polite disbelief concerning Jordan Crawford.
Easy Bullet Nation in Exile Easy, don’t want to offend anybody with the suicide references.
A bit too much hyperbole.
Honestly this team has me a little excited about the future. Let’s see if we can keep going against Detroit tonight.
by purpleonblack86 on Apr 5, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That team has practically imploded
Hopefully Stuckey and Hamilton are still pouting so Crawford and Wall can REALLY go off
I hate to admit
But they have my attention after I’ve bashed them all year. I know it’s the end of the season and they’ve played a few bad teams but there’s a glimpse of talent here. I think Jordan Crawford’s and McGee’s play is what gives me hope. I like Booker and always felt he brought something to the table, but with improvement from McGee, draft picks and salary cap space, this thing might get turned around. I’m still skeptical but do seem hope.
Amazing
what a few good trades and a few good games can do.
Ted is giving them a lot of credit...
As I stated in my recent FanPost, he linked to this post on Bleacher Report called Washington Wizards: The Team of the Future No One Is Talking About
He believes the rebuild is on track if he agrees with that column.
On a slight side note, here the quote that raised my eyebrows….
What exactly did Chicago management do that was so special? It was also more of what they did not do.At the end of the 2008-2009 season, as mentioned above, the Chicago Bulls improved by a solid 9 games and made the playoffs almost shocking the defending Champion Boston Celtics in the first round. Many executives, following a similar season, would have ensured that their entire roster remain intact, especially those younger players, regardless of the costs. Especially if that player led the team in scoring and was only 25 years young. I am speaking of course of Ben Gordon.
Per this article, does Nick Young = Our Version of Ben Gordon?
I could see how the writer would loosely correlate the two, but I think that 1.) Nick has become a more efficient player and 2.) he certainly won’t require or receive an outlandish contract like Gordon did (lol I sure hope not). All in all, wonderful piece, and the Bulls do appear to be a good model for what we are trying to achieve here.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
agree on flip…he is a good teacher…and if he wants to stay …id keep him
completely disagree on ernie grunfeld. his 10 year track record stinks. and he is not a gm with the skillset to build u a championship team unless lady luck falls on him three times. he can get u around .500 with the salary cap. but he is not a top talent evaluator at all. he doesnt pay enough attention to whether they love the game, know the game and can play defense. he values athletic potential above all and gambles they will somehow learn and love the game enough to improve. sometimes, u have to take the smart choice- a little less upside with much more certainty they will realize their potential.
he could start to change my opinion if he drafts kanter, but i dont think he will. the wizzards need interior defensive toughness horribly. it is such a glaring hole u can drive a truck through it. kanter is still risky. but he can do his homework on him. i dont think he will even seriously consider him. but i hope he does and i hope i am wrong on ernie and he changes what he has done in the past. but i have a 10 year track record backing my view.
i know a lot of people like barnes and some others. i like barnes too. but he is not the best pick for us. why kanter? because we will be a lottery team next year…and there is no legit true big man- 6-10+ 250lbs+ in the 2012 mock draft lotteries. if jared sullinger comes out, he will be a top 3 pick which u cant bank on having. in fact, we likely wont be a bottom three team next year. there are 4 SFs projected in next years lottery. so there is a scarcity value for a big…it is rare to find a true skilled big man in the draft. but all of the top teams have one. in fact, it is a major differntiation. and our current guys, as much as they improve, do not love the game enough to form a dominant defensive duo inside.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Up until now,
it has taken more than just a skillset to build a championship team. Perhaps the next CBA will be different, but in this league, championships are paid for. Hence, the ceiling of the team is determined by the owner, NOT the GM.
i dont think he will even seriously consider him.
EG and his staff picked two very atypical-for-EG players in last season’s draft. Leonsis is big on statistical analysis, and hence EG and his staff are also big on statistical analysis now.
There’s really no reason to believe that EG can’t execute Leonsis’ strategy and vision. He’s been doing it… You do realize that’s what GM’s do right? He executed Pollin’s strategy, which was namely, to get back to winning and build a playoff contender.
by jones-y on Apr 5, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Right, plus EG has been decent lately
What’s the risk/reward on a new GM
I want candidate names
I agree with this.
It’s waaay to risky to me to bring in a new GM, especially since Ernie seem to be doing the right things right now.
by SteelmaticSP02 on Apr 5, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
just to clarify…i am not suggesting ernie should be fired. at this point, he has been given his second chance and i dont think he has shown reason to be fired. what i am expressing are my reservations about him based on his track record. he has not primarily built his teams through the draft. that is a fact. but that is what we are relying on.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point...
I think Ernie has earned the right to see this version of his plan through. We’ve raked him over the coals enough about the past, it is what it is. But from what we’ve seen of Leonsis, I don’t think he would be so callous as to have Ernie rebuild this team with some assets and then can him without him getting a chance to see how it turns out. I would think that he is going to be in place for the next 2 or 3 years.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
and if i was not clear…i agree with everything u just wrote…ever go on a date when u had both excitement and reservations lol
as a fan, i really want to see the frontcourt firmed up to really offer me hope. who knows if/when blatche and mcgee ever develop. and from what i gather, people do not expect booker or seraphin to develop into all stars at the 4 or 5 spot. im really not that worried about the 1-3 positions…u can get those guys and we have some good prospects a 20th or so pick this year and another lottery pick coming next year
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I think you’re 100% right. Blatche and McGee have both teased us and I’m hesitant to say eithr has turned a corner. In fact, up until last week, it seemed almost consensus that we go after a big to replace one of these two. I fully expected us to go with a 4 or 5 with the top pick, but now I could see how it might not be quite as obvious to our front office. I think that there appears to be decent 3s later in the draft or maybe even next year. This end of the year crap is exciting, but it’s a really nervous excitement.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
they r kids…and kids are smart…they know to play hard the last dozen games to finish the season to give the front office pause on bringing in competition for their minutes….which btw is the only thing that has really motivated them in the past.
my problem is aside from desperate need…which in itself is enuff justification…JVM and blatche have had a free pass the past 12 months. i think they both will develop better with competition. and we know they arent signing a big name free agent.
as long as we remain a sieve inside, i cant take this team seriously…no matter how much talent they add on the perimeter. jump shooting teams dont win deep in the playoffs
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
haha…well heres hoping ernie learns something
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
I gotta say, Flip does look very engaged on the sidelines and seems genuinely excited these days.
There were times earlier in the year when I questioned his rotations and lineups but as the year goes on it has gotten better. Although it is sort of tough to screw up rotations when you only have 9 or 10 guys at your disposal. On a struggling team full of young guys and a couple questionable attitudes one would think there might be some sort of player- coach controversy at some point during the year but that has not really happened. Look at the Pistons right now, what a mess. I don’t think any of us can say for sure, but I think the players generally like Flip. Also, who are the realistic alternatives out there that we can say would definitely be an upgrade over Flip? Not sure I can name one.
As far as Ernie goes, I think his moves as a whole have been good ones. Sure trading the #5 pick for Miller and Foye was pretty bad but he had a dying owner who wanted one last deep run with a team of vets so I am not so sure he had a choice. Acquiring Kirk + #17 + $3mil cash without giving anything away is pretty impressive. Then flipping Kirk for Mo Evans (expiring), an extremely promising rook in JC, and a top 20 1st rounder was even more impressive. The Bibby buyout was just ridiculous luck, but hey gotta clap EG up for that too I guess. I don’t think we realize how tough getting rid of Gil’s contract must have been. We are talking about a guy with bum knees with 4 years and 80 mil left on his deal that just came back from one of the longest nba suspensions ever. I know most of us (including me) still had man crushes on Arenas and convinced ourselves he would work out but it now seems pretty clear he will just never even be close to the same player he was, which still makes me sad. Swapping Gil for Lewis who has one year less on his deal, is owed $30 mil less than Gil, is not a headache for a team, and can still ball a little was huge for this team. I was pissed at first about the deal but after his struggles on the Magic it is now obvious there is no way we could get a better offer than that. I am still under the belief we will be able to flip Rashard at next year’s deadline to a contender going for a deep run. Bottom line, I still trust in Ernie.
by jeffco01 on Apr 5, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
One question I have about Ernie, however.....
Is his ability to think big. He has been great at making little moves that make the team better from a financial standpoint, and a little better talent wise. However, I am afraid he is unwilling to make the bold moves which is sometimes necessary to transform your team into a contender. I know these moves only come around so often but if a situation ever arises I am still a little shaky on EG. I also hope he uses later draft picks on guys who fill roles instead of drafting guys based on potential. I think the Booker pick is a step in the right direction and I hope that trend continues. I would be ecstatic if we used our early 2nd rounder on a guy like Tyler Honeycutt, or Chandler Parsons.
I thought
Ernie’s trade for Caron Butler was a bold move… as was his trade for Antawn Jamison….. Obviously it looks like the Jordan Crawford trade is working out fabulously for the Wizards…
He has an OK track record in the draft as well…
I am less worried about EG’s moves in the trade department and the draft than I am in re-signing players and Free Agent moves… I think he tends to over value players and signs them to cap restrictive contracts.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 5, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
that speaks to a deficit in talent eval skills. if u dont know their true skills and how they fit the puzzle, u can never know their true value. i think u succinctly nailed the core of my concern, which i have not done a great job communicating!
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
well…that is true. but i think we bottomed there. dc really is a top tier city. with a great owner, great venue. etc. once we start winning, i dont think that will be a prob
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I heard Wilbon on the radio a while back talking about how all the players he talks to, especially African American ones, would love to live in DC, but they think the team is a mess. I think one good season combined with having Ted as the owner can change that perception.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Washington is a tier 2 NBA city
DC is not NY,LA, Chicago but with a middle to big market, with a large black community, a great owner and a team that is up and coming next yr.
Now, if Ernie can resist overpaying for Nick and/or spending any money on mediocre free agents this summer we will be in a great place to add a piece in once Rashard comes off the books.
First and foremost this summer: Preserve our cap space Ernie!!
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to douggie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Apr 6, 2011 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point Rook
I keep forgetting EG was responsible for bringing those guys in. The trade for Butler was a steal and the AJ trade was also a big one.
Right
As much as we give him grief over his drafts, given where we’ve been positioned, I think he’s done rather well. I mean, we dig Blatche, but to get this kind of production from a pick in the late 40s is tremendous. And he’s always been pretty money with the trades. Let’s hope he doesn’t overvalue Nick.
Do you think that he overvalued Blatche? I guess time will tell on that.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
well…if u consider if u had to sign blatche now, which is when he normally would be signed, would he get a better or worse contract? i suspect it would be the same to worse. but, there is value to demonstrating u will reward players who develop, which is what they did. i wonder if blatche was the best guy to demonstrate that with. regardless, blatche does not limit our flexibility right now so it is not as damaging as some of the others resignings
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the contract is pretty reasonable
He just seems so volatile, it could go either way, ya know? I mean, when the extension was first signed, I felt like it was a bargain to get a guy with that skill and size at a $7M/yr clip. But through most of the season, I almost started to think that we got hosed and he was bordering on toxic and somebody we should get him the hell out of here. Then he got hurt , and when he came back and played with some fire in the last week, I started to feel like I’ve been the irrational fan that jumps to the first conclusion I see and runs to it. Still not buying in though, wondering if this is all fool’s gold. LOL I’m so confused. I’m as volatile a fan as he is a player, I guess.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ur not alone in feeling it…too early to know…but i look at it this way…35m for 5 seasons…7mm per year. he has to give you 4 good years to justify that money. he already blew his free year. so he has to be strong the rest of the way, which i dont think he is.
howver, and i will say this…timing is just as imp as total dollars. by signing him last year, his contract expires when everyone else does, so he does not hamper us resigning the other players- that is the most imp and what keeps it from being a killer contract even if he is overpaid.
hopefully, when the time comes, we are smart about it…ie, resign JW a year or two early and front load that contract so he is a small hit the next year when the rest of the team needs to be resigned. if we can identify a couple definite core pieces and extend them each a year or two early, then we prob can resign all the players we want. but i really dont see how we can add an sig free agent piece, which i am ok with
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Fire them both please.
Ernie has so many marks against him I don’t even know where to begin, including hiring Flip.
Hopefully, what Peter Vescey reported was true.
Are people on this board really getting excited due to the past week?
Lets see them play hard for 82 games and then call me.
Also a smart GM would have traded Andray Blatche at the end of last season and traded Nick Young at the deadline because both are fools gold.
As for Flip, well the 3-35 on the road should get most coaches fired.
by Poname84 on Apr 5, 2011 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I hear you to some extent. But do you have any realistic alternatives that are upgrades?
I know Kevin Pritchard is a name that gets tossed around here often but is he even an upgrade over EG? The Blatche situation is tough, I know I was excited about him. I don’t blame him for not trading Blatche at the time, but extending Andray before this season began was a mistake I can blame him for. I feel like it would have been much smarter to see how the first half of the year played out.
Flip hasn't had a fair shake, Ernie has.
I wouldnt be too busted up if both of them were gone, but i just cant get on board with Grunfeld. True, the ATL deal was a good one, but i think he has proven during his tenure that he is subpar in the talent evaluation category. I dont know what the alternative would be, but it seems like year after year we make enough moves to remain mediocre, and thats not good enough anymore…not with a guy like John Wall on the roster. Whether correct or not, Ernie remains synonymous with that mediocrity in my head.
by j_edg on Apr 5, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Both men have pulled their chesnuts out of the fire of late...
No point throwing them overboard now. Let us see what happens in the draft, the possible lockout and the season to come.
When you think about it, who among us could have survived the management challenges of the last two seasons and emerged with a team that is all but completely remade and eager to prove itself.
Look at Detroit, Utah, Sacto, Charlotte, Utah (and the impending potential disasters in Orlando and Atlanta)… I’ll take our chances.
he has made some good deals and some bad ones… in all-
we traded away- butler, stevenson, jamison, haywood, veremenko, ross, singleton, arenas
players we received still on the roster- yi, howard, seraphin, crawford, atl pick, lewis, evans and we greatly improved our cap flexibility.
all in all, id say it was a good job. we gave away better talent…but it was expensive talent that wasnt going to do it for us. it isnt a great job!
now ask yourself this…in 10 years…including multiple lottery selections…who has he drafted that has really worked out? mcgee, blatche and nick young are the only ones that are even under consideration- and that is because they are the only ones who have not proven they shouldnt be here. am i missing anyone? this team will be built primarily through the draft. and this is the track record of your gm..(you cant really credit him much for wall…consensus #1 pick- he didnt screw it up, which is a plus)
but ted did not replace him last year. so he was given his second chance. but i hope he develops a skill he has not really shown he has to this point. but i cant sit here n say i am filled with confidence. if barnes is avail, i think he will take him. but he should take kanter if he is avail bec we need to defend the paint and scoop up rebounds
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
I like the idea of Kanter, but he isn't a sure thing
I think Barnes is tough and smart with a great, versatile skill set.
I think Kanter is much more of an unknown
I’m willing to take that risk though
now ask yourself this…in 10 years…including multiple lottery selections…who has he drafted that has really worked out? mcgee, blatche and nick young are the only ones that are even under consideration- and that is because they are the only ones who have not proven they shouldnt be here. am i missing anyone? this team will be built primarily through the draft. and this is the track record of your gm..(you cant really credit him much for wall…consensus #1 pick- he didnt screw it up, which is a plus)"
In his time here, EG has had a grand total of ONE lottery selection. That was traded in concordance with the owner’s vision and strategy.
That says two things. 1. his teams make the playoffs consistently (which demonstrates how well he is executing his owner’s strategy), and 2. he’s hit big on a few mid-first-rounders (Young is a starter on 20 teams, McGee is a budding star) and a #49 pick. That is no small feat.
Also you’re missing Wall and Booker. And you might as well add Crawford to that list.
by jones-y on Apr 5, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
you just made my earlier point…he will fill the teams with scorers that dont defend. keeping your team in no mans land…too good for a real lottery and never truly competitive. he builds his teams through trades, not drafts. has never won it. has he even truly fielded a perenially championship comptetitive team? thanks
the only player on the roster- and he has had all those assets all those years…that has VISIBILITY to be a potential perenial all-star is wall. i gave him credit for not screwing up the obvious. you need two more all-star level players. ..and they need to be bigs- unless u believe wall will develop into the best player in the league n which case you might get by with just one dominant big man. but even jordan always had pippen a close to all star PF and big beefy centers
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
he will fill the teams with scorers that dont defend.
Like Wall, Young, Booker, and McGee?
Or like Stevenson, Haywood, and Butler?
has never won it.
He’s never had the budget to do so. Championships are paid for in this league.
jones-y…seriously. the wizards are not a good defensive team.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say they were.
That’s moving the goalposts, my friend.
you implied wall young booker and mcgee defend. some of those players defend some times. and other starters that dont much at all. look i am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you. i agree that championships are bought. to some degree that is absolutely true. i dont know any championship team that stayed together that was not at the top of the payroll charts. but the wizards were well over the cap with the first core team eg assembled- butler, arenas, etc. that is why they gutted the team- too expensive, too far away from winning.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This squad is still EARLY in their development
I think EG isn’t awful, but a lot of GMs are
Young is a good defender now.
Wall, McGee, and Booker all project to be good (and possibly great) defenders. That’s three fifths of the starting lineup and the first big off the bench. So its clear that he will not fill the team with scorers that don’t defend. Because he hasn’t.
And the wizards went over the cap with the Arenas, Butler, Jamison core in the last year of its existence, not the first. Because Pollin was on his death bed. You can’t just toss out 80 mil for a year and expect a contender. That team had serious deficiencies that a year’s worth of lux tax couldn’t fix.
Not interested in a pissing match either, but I am interested in factuality.
JVM has a ways to go. he really needs to increase his bball IQ. and we have to see how booker develops bec he is undersized against some. but to your point…they are heading in the right direction.
factually speaking, EG has filled the roster with players who primarily were offensively driven but did not defend well. stevenson might have been a good exception to this. and more recently, he has added players that work harder on defense. the million dollar question is does he continue this trend or return to his previous model? we will know soon =)
im not saying it is etched in stone he will make the wrong decision. actually, i think he will most likely make the safe decision- barnes or williams. but u never know with him. i really hope he does not draft some tall project to add to the front court. i feel the right decision is to finish out the frontline this year with kanter because that type of player would complement what we have well- and it is so hard to find a player that could be ready out of the draft.
in many ways, adding JC so late in the year is like another draft pick. and it might even be wise to trade back that pick for a likely lottery pick next year. that way…we add wall n booker this year, JC and our #1 for next year…and then two more in a year. spreads it out and will probably help with cap mgmt in the future.
or do the opposite and trade away next years lottery if we can lock in barnes and kanter. what do u think
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
But unlike Kanter, Sullinger has clearly improved his game since that matchup.
(At least, I assume he did. I haven’t followed Sullinger’s season.)
I’d be okay with packaging our mid first round pick and our second round pick for another lottery pick… But I don’t know if I’m with the idea of trading away future first rounders (or any of our current prospects) at this stage.
But OTOH Kanter + Barnes would probably make me very happy!
thrilled…this is what i hope he can really pull off…even if we have to let or the #1 next year (but not both) if i were him, this is the angle i really would work hard. it puts a true core in place and gives us time to let them play and develop before we add the next piece. And I would raise the EG did a tremendous job to spectacular (even though currently I rate it as only good! =)
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He traded another lottery pick for Jamison
by hambonejackson on Apr 5, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That's right, Devin Harris
I forgot about that one.
EG is good not great
I think EG always does a good job working within the cap and building up a team when it has nothing. It’s when that team is halfway there that he struggles to get them over the hump. I agree that his eye for unproven players seems suspect. He can definitely spot athletic talent, but then, most people can. It’s discovering the players with bball smarts and drive that he needs to improve on. Though I think he made good selections in this years draft (even if you do not count Wall, which was an easy choice).
As for this year’s draft, I think I’d be happy with Barnes or Williams with our first pick and Patric Young or Markieff Morris with our second pick. My thing with Kanter is, I haven’t seen him play against the top college talent pool. I think Barnes brings good talent and shooting to the 3 spot, as well as good defense. And he’s a natural 3. No tweener. Williams I think brings a good aggressive attitude along with strength and skills.
Young is a good defender and physical presence. He’s short for his position, but I’d take that over someone tall without any abilities.
With Wall, Crawford, Booker, Seraphin, Jeffers, along with Williams, and Patrick Young, you get a very physical, aggressive, high energy team with defensive presence. That would allow for guys like Nick Young, Blatche, and McGee to stay more within their skill-set instead of trying to compensate
i know the knock on kanter… at the same time, you cant act like the guy has been out of basketball just because u have not seen him play. u did see him play a year ago…and he dominated sullinger. he was the best big man in the all star game by far. 34 points 13 rebounds…if he went out in 2010, he is a top 5 pick. whats changed? he was not injured! he spent a year practicing with the kentucky basketball team- they r pretty good u know….developing! even if he didnt improve one bit, he is a top 5 talent …and fills our most pressing need.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Sullinger was 11-14 in that same game, maybe dominated is too strong a word?
because you could just as easily spin it that Kanter couldnt defend a 6’8"PF who seemed to get his shot blocked 5x game in the Tourney. No doubt Kanter was the MVP of that now legendary game, but both teams shot over 50% and no one played much defense.
it is also one game. but i would take the bigger player that went 34-13 over the 6-9 center that went 11-14 100% of the time. no one knows much about the guy. he has played in pro leagues so some people know him. he did practice with a major college- KY no less- and they have other bigs on their roster. so there is something to be gleaned from there. my primary point is that there is a real scarcity value in the nba on true big men that can control the block. it is the hardest position to fill. it takes years for a player to get from 220ish to 260ish and strong enough to hold their ground- years. it SEEMS kanter could do that in short order. JVM will never be there. but he can be a diff type of all star if there is someone like that on the roster that is good.
so bottom line, with kanter…i see visibility where we can put the pieces together. another lottery pick next year at SF. let him, booker, the #20 pick, seraphin, and crawford develop. JVM,Blatche,Kanter could provide a very diverse front court. and if one of those other guys dont develop into an all-star, we will prob have enough good players to package a couple in a trade to get us one.
going any other route generates a logjam, raises a lot of questions on who will get minutes and we are still missing a true interior defender. look at the lakers…we could do something similar. it would be different but similar concept
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sullinger was outplayed in the NCAA tournament by the guy who Kanter spent all season beating up on in practice.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
I dont want Sullinger at all
I’m pointing out it’s a bit much to keep saying Kanter “dominated” him in a game where Sullinger shot 11 of 14.
i think u r saying he had a good game so he could not have been dominated. and he did. but im going with the guy that got 34-13 still. sullinger is much shorter and not available. but if u like him, u will love kanter lol
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks For the Video Link, But...
I wouldn’t draft Kanter based on that video. He’s no Demarcus Cousins. He has one little dunk but generally plays below the rim and seems a step slow. He gets most of his rebounds standing flat-footed simply because he’s the tallest guy on the floor. On the bright side, he does seem to be a good shooter.
He’s only 17 in the video and I’m not saying he can’t develop into something great but it looks to me like his numbers exceeded his skills, at least in that game.
Bullets fan stuck in CO.
I like him based on that video.
When I look at videos of prospects, I always try to imagine what the outcome would be of each individual play against a bigger, stronger, faster, more fundamentally sound defender running pro level defensive schemes (i.e. the helpside defender would have rotated, that shot would have been contested/blocked, he wouldn’t have been able to take that angle to the basket, etc…). Kanter does have a kind of blatche-like, under the rim touch close to the basket, but he makes better use of his body to create shooting angles or space to get his shot off. His game strikes me as the type that could work well against NBA sized frontlines. Sullinger’s game, however, does not (neither did tyler hansbrough’s game look like it would translate, so take with a grain of salt…).
He gets his rebounds based on positioning, and again that skill looks like it will translate to the NBA well. I did notice that he didn’t really have to put his body on people, and he will in the NBA, but that shouldn’t be a problem.
well…i think we all know there are a lot of assumptions that go into reviewing a player based on a highlight reel from one game. but i like him and think he is the clear best fit for what this team needs.
i like him because he complements what we have really well.
he is the opposite of JVM- he is not uber athletic nor a shot blocker. but he has legitimate size and strength for 18, he plays in the block and will put a body on someone, fundamentally blocks out and rebounds, and can step away from the basket and hit a 10-15 jumper. they say he has range to the three point line…dont know about that but it appears mid range is within his capabilities.
depending on the matchup, we should should be able to field a frontcourt that can defend, block shots, hit outside jumpers, rebound, and make putbacks/alley oops, run the floor etc
kanter/jvm for against the biggest frontcourts
jvm/ab against more athletic frontcourts
and any combo of the three against most front courts- which gives us some depth up front
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Simmons didn't criticize it
Re-read his take on the trade. He indicates that Crawford has potential, that Kirk is probably washed up and pokes fun at a Bibby and Rashard.
?
After grading the trade in C-minus:
There’s only one silver lining: the chance that Bibby and Rashard Lewis will run their high screen in Washington and immediately get attacked by cadaver-sniffing dogs.
If that’s not criticizing a pointless trade, what is?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta gets an F and the Wiz gets an A
So it averages out to a C
by hambonejackson on Apr 5, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I felt like he was giving us a nod on this trade.
His words: "The Hawks supposedly upgraded by sacrificing Mike Bibby, a first-round pick and Jordan Crawford (who has potential) for Kirk Hinrich, but as my Washington buddy House tweeted later, “Hey Wiz fans, let’s all agree to keep the fact that K.H. is washed up between us, OK?” "
I interpret that as we got ultimately two expirings (Bibby/Evans), a prospect AND a pick for a guy that is cooked. It was a bad trade for Atlanta, which is who I think the C- is primarily given on.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 5, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bibby wasn't an expiring yet
I see where you’re both coming from, but it still feels like while Simmons obviously frowned on Atlanta’s side, at best he felt it was a negligible trade for the Wizards. Given how highly most esteemed the WAS side, it felt like short shrift to me
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I say Fire both
The guy who says he’s wondering if Ernie can make the big move to jump the Wizards into legit contender status as a team is correct.
The Big 3 idea failed miserably and Ernie’s response to that was to what put together this roster full of repetitive position players non veteran leaders, and mid age vets who only care about themselves.
injuries have forced the the team to have a few revelations about certain guys Crawford, Mcgee, Booker and even Wall are all a by product of this. We found out that Booker is more than just a hustling scrappy type off the bench that give a chance he can generate some offense and be a complete terror hitting the offensive boards though his defense is bad at the 4 spot. We found out that Crawford is one heck of an all around talent can play point and 2 get sots off in heavy trafffic and generally be fearless on both ends of the floor a real competitor. We found out that Wall doesn;t need to be dependant on pick and pop plays to Young, Blatche, Yi Lewis and Howard that he can be a leader who carries the team with his scoring and agresssiveness that him as option one alot of times is the best option. And with mcgee we discovered iven more minutes without being jerked for every little mistake can use his athleticism to be downright dominant in stretches on both ends that aside from the occasional wild shot he can score on the low block that he can create high percentage looks and it seems to fuel even more defensive intensity and rebounding. That he doesn;t just need to be a one end of the floor type player.
The problem is Injuries have brought the Wizards to these revelations not Flip having an enlightened ephiphany.he had no choice.
Problem is Young, Howard and Lewis will heal then what. Blatche will be back into full swing as the go to scorer(CRINGE major CRINGE) and where does that leave all the young guys who have built positive momentum moving forward.
Blatche and Young to me are players with losing mindsets they learned how to be pro’s under the Big 3 they only know shoot em if you got em no matter how defended just get em up save energy on defense and blame everything or everyone else if it doesn’t work out.
Howard is just a broken vet with no role, Lewis doesn’t hurt chemistry but doesn;t help it either he just seems to exist showing no ldeadership nor willingness to play up to his contract.
what happens when all are healthy the Wizards add 2 more 1st rd picks and other young players.
I don’t think the Wizards have a plan at all other than add more young players until they are bursting at the seems with them . and trade vets for cash and more picks.
Lets fire both start fresh with new ownership have Leonsis hire his guys and see where we go from here.
And Arenas probably could have gotten that huge contract somewhere else
Ernie HAD to keep him
He made the Wiz relevant
Grass isn't always greener
WHO would you suggest
Firing them isn’t a decision you make in a vacuum
Who would we get?
the best talent evaluator you can hire. staying under a cap is not rocket science. and if u have a better guage on the talent, u have a better understanding of their value
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
the best talent evaluator you can hire.
You can do that without firing your GM. In fact the organization has already done that.
GMs make the decision. the talent evaluator has to be the decision maker or u may not get the right decision pushed through. hey its late in the season. i dont think eg is going anywhere this year.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The best manager surrounds himself with competent people,
trusts them to do their job, and listens to them.
Who?
where are all theses unemployed, yet wonderful GMs, who want this job?
I think EG is eh. I think it’s a tough job and other than a few legendary franchises, most teams have to get lucky and land multiple HOF players, and manage the cap while surrounding those HOF players with talent to even be consistently relevant
ernie is average not good. he will fill the team with scorers who dont defend staying under the cap and flirt primarily under .500 with pops of hope that you are one piece away. but in reality, you are never even close because u cant stop anyone when the stakes are elevated.
the team you mentioned is too small. did u watch the uconn butler game last night…that is what will happen to us. you need a big man…6’10 plus…250 lbs…that can defend. JVM can not anchor the middle. he needs a true big that can anchor under the basket to complement him and free him from those responsiblities so he can do what he can do
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
The Big three failed
because of the following:
We overpaid an injured Gilbert Arenas, at the time no one knew whether he would ever be the same player. It was a dumb move.
Jamision gave us 20 and 10 but his red carpet defense sucked.
Butler had his own injury issues, got jealous and started bitching.
We never had a legit big man during the big 3 era.
We overpaid an injured Gilbert Arenas, at the time no one knew whether he would ever be the same player. It was a dumb move.
And plan b was to….. let someone else sign Gil for the same money, and sink back into anonymity?
exactly- let someone else resign gil. though on this matter, i think eg was told what he had to do. i dont hold him too accountable for it. it was obvious that it was a crazy re-signing. maybe he spent those earlier years really restricted and has learned a thing or two since then. he def is getting his shot. i am pretty nervous that is all. i know we need to beef up the frontcourt first. it would take years to try to develop a front court player to fill what we need. a perimeter guy can develop much faster. a true 6-10+ 260lb+ center type player is the immediate need. it doesnt have to be kanter…there is just no visibility on anyone else if it is not him.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i am excited that the players he has brought in since the rebuild started last year generally seem to play hard. that is more imp to me than wins and losses even.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You would have let Arenas walk?
Not buying it
I think hindsight is clouding your judgement
i never would sign a player that plays one half the game to a max contract. period. i would have went a diff route and never acquired him, much less resign him. buy it. its true. scoring 20 means nothing if u give up 25. well, actually it means u usually lose.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, see how long a GM stays employed letting that kind of talent walk
Exactly who would you have replaced him with?
A by your logic Jamison should have been gone
Then the role player turned wannabe star would have between our best player.
At least we would have had the best shot at Durant
they say it is a guards league, and that is true. but it is also true that u cant win if u cant control the paint. the team that has the easier shot wins 95% of the time. the closer you are, the easier the shot. it isnt rocket science. you need a big man in the league to win.
to win in this league you generally need at least 3 all stars: 1-2, 3-4, 4-5. if u go 134 or 2,3,4 your center has to be a defensive beast who can rebound.
again my point, where r u going to get a legitimate 5 if u dont get kanter this year. look at the 2012 draft board…where is he? sullinger? good luck. i dont think anyone expects us to be bottom three again next year.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions
Who says it's a guard's league?
It is, always has been, always will be, a TALENT league. And as far as C is concerned, we might have a legitimate one on the roster, and he recently had a triple-double. To give up on him now, after his recent progress, would not be wise.
by YellaFella on Apr 5, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh im not giving up on him at all…just the opposite…mcgee’s skill set will really shine with someone big in there to anchor the paint and grab the rebounds. he can focus on swatting shots, scooping up a few boards and some basic offense/put backs. mcgee on his own is not enough. he is out of position too much to anchor the paint. he wants to block shots not box out.
and if he doesnt develop further, we have someone that can defend the paint, clear the glass to start the fast breaks, and make basic offensive shots——which is the one thing this team desperately needs to address….especially now that JC might potentially be that second perimeter based scorer
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Javale doesn't have any outside or midrange game
Football is the only sport I know inside and out, so maybe I’m missing something, but won’t that create terrible spacing issues?
the biggest player on your bball team has to defend against the easy close shot, rebound and make the easy shot. that is the min requirement for that role. im not sure he can do any of those consistently, but i am sure he can not do all of them. we are getting killed inside…murdered.
the lakers find space for both bynum and odom. and i have seen them play gasol, bynum and odom. so yeah, i think there is room for them to figure it out. and i think mcgee will develop a short range game long before he learns the game and becomes fundamentally sound
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yes…they can…along with kobe they r champ contenders year in and out
my point is that we need to fix the problems we have—-which is no interior defense or rebounding. we cant win if we dont
JVM can learn to shoot. it is something he would like to do im sure =)
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
lol fair enough
dont forget to catch my point…
we have to improve our front court and acquire a player who can fill a lot of space in the paint, defend against easy baskets, rebound and make easy shots
if u think JVM and AB are the guys to do that consistently, against the top talent in the league, then u can stop there
i dont…hence i think we need to focus on kanter. because those guys are really really hard to find. and there is none projected in to be ready in next years draft except sullinger who will be a top 3 pick, which we wont have
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't buy into Javales bballl iq our blatches commitment
So no to both
However Dray can play PF, its his position
I've been said I'm willing to take a shot on Kanter
Just think Barnes will be a really good pro
Barnes looks like the safest pick to me.
If he’s even coming out…
i agree on barnes. kanter higher need i feel.
bball iq? who knows. i know he is out of position alot, gives up a lot of points close to the rim, and usually gets out rebounded pretty bad. call it bball iq or something else. we cant win doing that. i also think that if there is someone big that can defend inside n grab boards, then jvm could be really fun to watch and will come into his own
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Javale is 23
He’s got a solid 5-7 years of developing to go. It took Tyson Chandler 5-6 years to get a clue, and he’s just peaking now at 28. McGee could be one of the greatest shot blockers of all time, and a perennial all nba defender. You heard it here first. I couldn’t believe people were actually calling for his trade… That surely would’ve gotten EG fired, lol…
Blatche? I don’t know. He has the talent to be great, but the drive to be mediocre. However he’s 24, and thus has a solid 4 years of developing/maturing left to do.
Not that I’m against drafting Kanter. But I’m not gonna get too attached to that notion. Lottery balls have been known to do funny things…
you still need a third big man…lakers have odom, gasol, and bynum
celtics had big baby, garnett, and perkins (but loaded on the perimeter with potentially three hall of famers (at least two and rondo will make several all star appearances))
heat have ilgauskas, dampier, bosh, pittman and james in a pinch
…mavs, spurs, magic …all truly contending teams are big inside…maybe the smallest is the bulls which still have two guys well over 250 and noah and kurt thomas who averages 6 boards a game on about 23 mins
big men take the longest to develop…why good idea to get them early in the rebuild process
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree totally
And that’s actually another mark in the win column for EG, Knowing the situation regarding big men in the league, he began stashing bigs on the roster in 2005.
Imagine where we’d be with no Blatche or McGee (or Young for that matter). Three of the best four players on the team. Imagine if we were REALLY starting from scratch…
yeppurr. we r in good shape relatively speaking
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look at JaVale's DraftExpress profile it says he has 3-pt range :)
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Apr 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
does it really lol…maybe they meant 3ft range and it is a misprint?
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec for the first statement
Not sold on the second
which part? the JC part of if or the JVM doesnt develop. i think flip is working with him and he is starting to get it. we r still better off finding a complementary player to do the things he doesnt want to do so he can focus on what he can excel at
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree we need the kind of post presence Kanter might provide
Just think that means Javale gets relegated to the bench
If Javale doesn’t consistently do what nba centers need to do for their teams to be successful, he will not be starting in this league
Right, but so there isn't spacing issues Kanter would be often out of the paint
Can’t be a beast in the click if you aren’t there
Well he'd be a beast defensively
I have no problem with McGee’s ability to grab offensive boards, he just misses a lot of defensive rebounds because he is out of position try to block shots.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
which is more important? the five or so defensive boards he doesnt get that he should or the 2-3 offensive boards he does get
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
show me a team that has won multiple championships without a legitimate defensive center that occupies space and grabs rebounds…and i will find you ten teams that fit that model
talent on its own is not enough. u cant win with the five best guards. u need talent that fills specific roles. there is some flexibility in the position that roles can be filled from. but the roles can not be ignored. and the biggest guys on the court grab the majority of the rebounds
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
Still, how many teams not coached by Phil Jackson win a chip with a bad player at any position?
Agree that kind of player is enormously important for winning it all.
Almost as important as clutch players.
Performing under pressure is the ultimate intangible
who says there is a legitimate defensive Center in the draft?
there is no shortage of 6’10"ish players who are built like brick walls, but the majority of them are in the dleague or europe because they just arent quick enough to guard nba players. The TWolves have the worst interior defense in the nba and that’s with KLove grabbing a bazillion boards and Pekovich providing beast-like muscle in the paint.
obviously, filling the role of interior defense, rebounding and the ability to build some sort of offensive game is what i am calling for. so if it is not available, it is not available. but i trust rook’s assessment of this draft and if he thinks the guy can fill that role, then that is what i am going with. i understand thats what kanter could provide. if not, then of course my view on him changes
why are the timberwolves so bad? arent people saying that they have a major coaching handicap? curious
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ernie stays, Flip goes
EG is doing what the boss asks of him. He built a contender in the Big 3 – but GA’s knees and finally gun-gate messed that up. Not really EG’s fault. The #5 trade for Miller and Foye looked smart to me on paper, taking into account that he was supposed to “win now”.
Well now EG’s supposed to rebuild. Of course we’re losing.
But we have cap flexibility, 2 first-round picks and a young roster with a long term horizon. Just imagine what a monster JM could become in 3 years time, developing alongside JW. If this league is all about PGs and Cs, I think we’re set.
Whereas Flip would never have been hired in the first place if the objective then had been to rebuild. He was supposed to be a vet coach for a “win now” team.
Sometime this season I read on BF that his playbook was getting old and that opposing teams knew what he was throwing at them.
I don’t really know who could replace him though. I read on CNNSI that Calipari wants to go pro.
I like the Bullets
The J Craw trade may go down as one of the great steals in GMing history.
Flip’s methods seem to be taking hold with Mcgee as they did with Nick and he seems to have a good relationship with Wall (and Dray). I cant see any reason to fire these guys, even though I dont see Flip as a Championship coach.
by DCrez on Apr 5, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You mean even better than
getting Caron Butler for Kwame Brown?
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Unfortunately
that move was coupled with replacing Larry Hughes with Jarred Jeffries leaving us no better off.
At the time it was a steal
… but if someone offered me Kwame for Caron today …
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Apr 5, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
agree, it was a steal
but at the same time he let Hughes go to free agency and didn’t adequately replace him, so the team stayed in place rather than improving.
You can't get what won't come
How do you know EG didn’t try to replace Hughes but couldn’t find someone of value willing to come here
let Hughes go to free agency
In my opinion – that was one of EG’s best non-moves…. Hughes at the salary he got hamstrung Cleveland for several years….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 5, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, to be fair ...
He agreed to 14 million a year for 5 years with the Cavs. The WIzards offered about 12 million a year for 6. Both were 70 million dollar deals. Still, we got lucky.
Keep em
No reason to change now.
Ernie’s done a good job and I don’t think any other coach living or dead coulda done more than Flip this year.
What did you expect———-deep playoff run???
The draft is always a crap shoot but we should have some decent choices.
I won’t be shocked to see EG go out of the country for talent with ATL’s pick.
You have good arguments about Ernie.. but Flip?
I think the only good reasons to keep Flip are that we don’t know of a preferred candidate for the position, and we don’t want to throw the team into more disarray after this horrendous season. Which are good reasons, but not exactly an endorsement of Flip’s coaching ability.
There is that
But with Young turning a corner, Javale apparently following suit, trusting JC, and the team starting to show up in the fourth quarter, it seems like we’re turning a corner.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The results of this poll, of course
are going to be skewed as a result of the Wizards being on a two-game win streak, and having won 4 out of the last 10.
That said, I think Grunfeld may have saved his job with the Crawford trade. Although, in the corporate world, sometimes ownership or management makes up its mind at a certain point about a person, and no later successes will change those opinions. So, if Leonsis already made up his mind about Grunfeld, the Crawford deal might not save him.
Naturally, but I figured this would be a good time to bring up a hot button issue
without an avalanche of negativity. We’ll see what happens, but I won’t be surprised however it turns out.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But why would Leonsis fire Grunfeld?
He is doing exactly what Leonsis wants . Dump old contracts and bring in rookie contracts and that is exactly what Grunfeld has been doing. I don’t think his job has ever been on the line.
by hambonejackson on Apr 5, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I think what Grunfeld has done is remarkable
Looking at the teams cap room going into the future, it just grows every season. !9 mil is cleared off for next season and that is with Yi 5.4 mil contract. Down to 30 mil and that is with Lewis 23 mil contract. That means the Wiz could basically keep the team together if it wants to and sign FAs if it wants to. The team has loaded up on rookie contracts and is now very young and it is starting to win some road games for the 1st time this season.
I think many teams are envious of the Wiz position at the moment. With so many teams stuck with a glut of vet contracts and with the CBA still being hammered out the Wiz are1 team that won’t be affected.
I think Saunders is proving those wrong who said he could not coach a young team. Players are developing under Saunders and he is doing something successfully he was not hired to do. Blatche, Young, this season McGee, all have whined under Saunders only to end up doing things his way and thriving because of it. Saunders is not only a proven winning NBA coach, but now demonstrates his skill for patiently teaching players. I think he will start winning with this team and then he should be anointed coach for life.
I not only think they should be kept on, they should be rewarded bonuses. They managed to turn the franchise on its head in 1 season and now they are righting it again. Let them continue on and I am fairly certain that Leonsis will do that.
by hambonejackson on Apr 5, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i dont feel its remarkable…when u trade away most of your key players for whatever draft picks n shortest salaries u can get, u will have a young inexpensive team. but he did a fair/good job. we cant know what he could have done so i give him the benefit of the doubt. agree with all the other comments !
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions
i dont feel its remarkable
You don’t feel it’s remarkable that Grunfeld was able to trade away one of the most toxic contracts in all of sports?
You don’t think it’s spectacular that in the span of less than 9 months, Grunfeld transformed the team from a roster full of over-the-hill, over paid veteran players with an $89 Million payroll – to a team full of talented youngsters with upside and a $40 Million payroll?
You don’t think it’s exemplary that during the first 12 months of the rebuild, the Wizards will have added no less than 6 First round draft picks to the roster?
Because I DO….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 5, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Really... an amazing achievement when you think about it...
Now if he can pull a few more rabbits out of the hat come draft day and then find a way to extract maximum value (one way or another) out of Rashard’s deal… EG may well overtake Presti as the NBA’s genius du jour.
I'm back on the Ernie Bandwagon
He pissed me off for a long time, but now I’m starting to like some of the moves.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Apr 5, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
hey rook, be fair. After the Arenas-Lewis trade you did say you were on the 'fire Ernie' bandwagon
(i did not like the trade either at the time btw, so i was right there with ya)
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to douggie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Apr 6, 2011 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions
i think he did a good job as i said. we have no size inside. we getting crushed in the paint and on the boards. we will never amount to anything until he fixes that. i dont think the story on his rebuild can be determined until after this years draft for sure…and really one more.
with regards to arenas…i dont think it is remarkable he traded him to the only team that would take him. let me ask you this….how much of this trade do you think is EG skill convincing orlando that he has their misssing piece….and how much of it is dwight howard liking and wanting to play with areanas…and a team who has the top young center in the league, who is a free agent after next year, watching denver, cleveland and toronto lose their key free agent wanting to do EVERYTHING within their power to keep their star happy. and they just happened to have the 2nd most toxic contract in the league, a player that was woefully underperforming for them.
So no…i think he did a good job- not remarkable. the arenas trade does not happen at all if dwight howard were not a free agent and they did not have their own problem…it is a match made in heaven—-the two worse contracts in the league swap teams to get a fresh start and hope to keep their superstar happy and resigned!
having said all that…i wouldnt get to caught up in remarkable vs good. the story is not finished. we are off to a good start rebuilding for a variety or reasons, including skill and blind luck. im excited to the draft this year. but there are some roles YOU know we need to fill (interior defense, interior scoring and interior rebounding). you can not win in this league with out it. it is the hardest spots to fill. and until EG can find someone who can fill those roles with backup depth that is decent….he can not be remarkable.
i think he might be able to do it in this draft…and in a couple months i might be waving that he did a fantastic job. until then…theres promise, but no visibility to compete for a championship in five years promise!
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions
make sure you are clicking 'reply' on to the specific comment you are responding to
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Apr 5, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought i did,…thanks for the heads up =)
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I've had many mix emotions about this draft, but right now my mind is at this state...
Barnes is a great player with a great skillset, but there will be some great SFs in next years draft and no legit big man.
I say we get Kanter and with ATL’s pick get Chris Singleton or maybe Jordan Hamilton (if he slips that far or enters the draft). Or who knows? Maybe we could package it with something else to move up in the draft. We seriously need a presence in the paint.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Apr 5, 2011 6:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Although we could draft Barnes and take a chance on Oden.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Apr 5, 2011 6:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wouldnt that be an expensive gamble? what do u suspect it will cost to get oden?
by les boulez bomber on Apr 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Im Sorry
three games cannot make me forget about 100. I think Ernie should stay, but still dont believe Flip is a good fit. Has anyone realized that this run of success and change in lineups was forced due to injuries?! Thats the only time this team has won on the road pretty much. When Flip cant run is silly sub patterns, and now your best player on the team is one who probably knows the least amount of the offense…COINCIDENCE?
by baltimorebullets80 on Apr 5, 2011 7:42 PM EDT reply actions
On those points I agree ...
Flip seems to have done better when circumstances have saved him from himself. Not having Hinrich in the lineup, and injuries to Lewis and Young have forced less system and more free-flowing basketball. I agree there, baltimorebullets80.
I noticed the best PG play I saw prior to Wall’s first few games was the time Shakur came up from D-League and just balled, not knowing plays. The team played instinctively and looked sharp in their win over Boston with Shakur not knowing Flip’s offense.
Likewise, this kid Crawford is a gunslinger who attacks and plays confidently and instinctively. He’s not being over-corrected or over-coached. It helps Flip IMO that Jordan Crawford is naturally confident is a leader on the court.
I don’t think Flip SHOULD BE FIRED, but that’s not the same thing as saying he’s the best guy for this job. I think the Wizards should honor their contract and should give him 25 or so games next season to see how competitively the team plays. Like you, I don’t think he’s a great coach.
(Dave Joerger, and not Calipari, is who I’d want if Flip left).
by CCJ on Apr 6, 2011 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
regardless if he is the best coach or not, these players (specifically our veteran young guys) are starting to listen to him and come around. and we are seeing some improvement in their game recently. it would be a huge mistake to introduce a new coach and new voice to them at this point. so long as that continues, i keep flip for a few years until that changes or it becomes obvious that we need someone else to put us over the top
by les boulez bomber on Apr 6, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I Cannot Believe It But I'm Good
I have really been down on Saunders’ coaching for a long time. I thought he was beyond a bad coach from about December of his first season until about the beginning of March—about when Hinrich was traded. However, I cannot deny that McGee, Young, Crawford, Booker, and lately Blatche are all playing their best basketball. They are playing well relative to guys their age and with their experience. That gives me pause when I want to condemn this coach. What’s bad about the development of the young guys? Now they also are beating bad teams, so it seems Flips doing an okay job.
Grunfeld is a guy I was downright mistrustful of and very disappointed with at Gungate time. I didn’t like a bunch of his moves, from his trading the fifth pick for Miller/Foye and from him passing up players like Blair in round two. I didn’t like the lack of maturity and basketball IQ of certain picks, and that he seemed to draft on potential. Most of what he did under Abe/EJ I didn’t like (Caron for Kwame was the thing I liked). Yet, with all of the animus I’ve had toward EG that all disappeared with the highway robbery deal he pulled off in fleecing ATL to get Crawford and a pick for Hinrich! Wow. On top of that, all the young guys he’s drafted have started realizing their potential. Young and McGee are solid players. Booker is worth where he was picked. Crawford is amazingly competitive. The Arenas deal is one I didn’t like, but it’s been a very good deal. Lewis has a better deal and he is a solid pro.
Grunfeld has been OUTSTANDING this season! Wow. Washington’s losing young and that’s okay. They’ve got two first rounders and guys with bright futures. Bibby taking a loss to get out of his deal works in the Wizards’ favor. With this draft, Washington can be acquiring assets needed to possibly be in the hunt for a Dwight Howard sign-and-trade in 2012.
I am good with both Grunfeld and Saunders. Both seem to have weathered the storm. I’d stick it out one more season and give Flip until the all star break next season. As far as Grunfeld goes, I’ve got faith he’ll draft the right guy.
Things are definitely looking up and I don’t think the Wizards need to change right now.
Stay On Course
The trade with Atlanta will go down as the best in franchise history! I’ve been saying that ever since it went down. It’s going to take a couple years for the naysayers to come around on that and give Ernie the credit for pulling off a heist like that. I still can’t believe they gave us Crawford and another first round pick for Kirk Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong! It would have been a steal if we had only got Crawford, but a first round pick as well,wow!
Why Blame Ernie For The Gilbert Arenas Extension?
Why are people blaming Ernie Grunfeld for giving Gilbert Arenas that huge contract extension? He was only following owner Abe Polin’s orders! It was up to Abe to make the final decision on that contract not Ernie! I think Ernie has done an incredible job since the new ownership of Ted Leonsis took over.
The team has some great young building blocks in place and 2 more first round picks to go along with a boatload of cap room as we get ready for the NBA offseason to start. There is more work left to be done, but I think we are through the hard part. I think Ernie should have the opportunity to finish constructing this rebuild.
by Beltwayboy on Apr 7, 2011 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He did the best he could with Abe's direction
and he’s doing the best he can with Ted’s new direction.
EG and FS
IMO are doing a good job so far.
I think the real question in the poll you should of added was FIRE Eric Waters!
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