Ranking the Euro's
by playnpg22 on Apr 25, 2011 2:40 PM EDT
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Motiejunas, Valanciunas, or Vesley?
Personally, I’m not a fan of taking Euro’s (especially over T. Jones), but if anyone has any expert insight into these 3 please share… Here’s my thoughts based on basic google and youtube searches…
Overall, it seems most experts ranks V alanciunas the most polished player, at least most deserving to be in the lottery. But personally I don’t think the wizards should draft him because he seems to be just another mcgeeà tweener, (6’11 240) center and 100% a post player. Not sure it will cut it w/NBA centers.
Vesley is the oldest and seems to be very aggressive—tyler hansboro/blake griffin type, as well as a good shooter, but seems like he doesn’t have a true NBA position. Not a great ball handler /post up player.
To me Montiejunas is the most intriguing for the wizards, While some have said he may have focus problems, he seems to be the most athletic and skilled.. bargniani/dirk like. …and he shoots 46% from the three this year in the European he really improved this year. He also seems to have the biggest frame for putting on muscle and he’s only 18.
Not sure how accurate this is, but http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm
Like I said if anyone has some good links please share…
thanks
VALANCIUNAS
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonas-Valanciunas-5622/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjOTr6GTCXg
Motiejunas
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Donatas-Motiejunas-1300/
this video was intriguing ** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs
Vesley
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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I'd take Vesley over the other two because his name is the easiest to pronounce.
No way Buck and Phil could get through a telecast with Valanciunas or Motiejunas getting heavy minutes.
Vesley has no nba skills- handle, shot, defense, rebounding....all poor
or even terrible when you look at defense and rebounding. He’s an abject bust waiting to happen, sits higher than either Morris, Singleton, Faried, and a bunch of others on the mock boards
well there you go …its VALANCIUNAS by default because we dont need a seven foot perimeter shooter. though i wonder why u didnt consider kanter
by les boulez bomber on Apr 25, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
if the choice is between the three ONLY
I’ve watched all three – I had a subscription to EuroLeague.TV and saw both Valanciunas and Vesely play a ton of games… and I’ve seen several games with Motiejunas.
Given the choice of one of those three – I’d choose Vesely
Although he’s 6’10", his game is ALL Small Forward – He’s not an interior player at all….
He’s got a pretty good jump shot, as long as he’s set. His range extends out to the International 3-point line; but interestingly, not past there. He’s a terrible 3-point shooter (26%)… Sort of like Darius Songaila. He was deadly from 23 feet, but make him step the extra 9 inches past the 3-point line and he couldn’t make it. Like that.
Vesely is absolutely spectacular on the break, in transition, or on back cuts to the basket for alley oops. Any time he gets the ball with a step or two on his opponent, he will finish with a thundering dunk.
Vesely can’t shoot off the dribble… Speaking of which, he can’t really dribble much either…. Well, other than in a straight line… He cannot create his own shot. Other than when he’s dunking the ball, he has trouble finishing around the basket when he’s challenged. He’s hyper-active on both offense and defense… and he seems to be very competitive.
Despite what DraftExpress says, from what I saw, he has quickness enough to stick with most NBA 3’s on defense. His problem on defense has been focus. He seems to just forget where he’s supposed to be…. and who he’s supposed to be guarding.. It’s actually comical – and when you watch games, you can actually see him “wake up” in the middle of a defensive stand, and look around to see where he’s supposed to be.
If somehow, someone could get him to focus on defense – I think he could be a very good player in the NBA; because the rest of his game just needs polish (ball handling, shooting repetition, etc…)
As for the other two (Motiejunas, Valanciunas) – neither one is ready for the NBA… Not even close… They both need another 2 years at least …. Kanter is head and shoulders (perhaps waist) above both of them in development, and he’s in the same age group.
Hell, I’d take Nikola Mirotic over either Motiejunas or Valanciunas right now…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 25, 2011 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Vesley IS AK Part II
Well worth a high lottery pick in a weak draft.
However, I am not sure he fits the Wizards needs
Whoever we play at the three needs to be a good shooter.
And if you're ranking the Euro's
Where’s Biyombo?
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I'm very against drafting a Euro
I hardly ever (maybe 8% of the time) agree with Cowherd, but he hit the nail on the head when it comes to drafting foreigners. They are soft, never win, and never pan out. They are all soft, except for Ginobili (Nash doesn’t count as a foreigner) and another soft player is excatly what this team doesn’t need. They never win, except once again Ginobili. Yeah Dirk wins in the regular season, but he is a white Blatche who tries a little bit harder. And 95% of them never ever pan out. Where is Ricky Rubio? Averaging 5 points and 4 assists on a team 4 people on this board can name ( I didnt look it up so don’t kill me on Rubio, you know what I mean). Think the Pistons loved taken Darko over Melo? And where is that guy Ernie drafted whose name starts with an O? Or how bout all those mid 1st and late 2nds Ernie wasted and yes wasted on awful Euros. If there is a good Euro this year, Ernie won’t pick the right one.
Now Kanter wouldn’t be an awful pick just cuz hes had a year of coach Cal practices, but any other Euro would be a waste. Take T. Jones early, B. Knight as a backup PG, one of the Morrises, of course this is assuming that Williams and Irving are off the board.
by WizKids58 on Apr 25, 2011 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I forgot Gasol
he is great on the Lakers but I dunno how good hed be on a bad team
No need to guess . . .
he played for Memphis Grizzlies in the beginning of his career. He was a solid player before getting traded to the Lakers and made one All-Star game.
His brother Marc has also developed into a solid, unflashy starting NBA center. He was a real steal as a 2nd rounder.
There’s definitely reason to be a Euroballer-Skeptic, but the league has still produced a bunch of quality players including some likely Hall of Famers like Dirk Nowitzki and Tony Parker. There have also been some solid above average starters like Stojakovic, and an All-Star like Ilgauskas. Gortat was a steal in the 2nd round. Gallinari, Bargnani weren’t great deals as lottery picks, but they’re still pretty good players that have a place in the NBA.
Tony Parker a hall of famer?
might be a bit of a stretch
by tmoneyttime1 on Apr 26, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a first ballot. . . .
at this point. Basketball reference has him at a little better than a 50-50 shot as going into the Hall at all.
But in a 9 year career he’s been a key player on 3 NBA championship teams, a 3 time All-Star, NBA Finals MVP, and he’s only 28. Not a bad resume.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_career.html
A better HoF resume
than LeBron James, Carmello Anthony and Dwight Howard….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Only because of the championships
but its not like he was the main player on those teams and those players would clearly get in over Parker if they were in the same class
by tmoneyttime1 on Apr 27, 2011 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Only because of the championships . . .
True.
“But its not like he was the main player on those teams” — I see what you’re saying — Duncan was the key guy — but it sells short Parker’s contribution.
Duncan is going to get in on the first ballot. But Parker and Ginobili were both key contributors to those championship teams. Both will get consideration, and I would not be surprised if both ultimately get in (Ginobili’s gold medal at the Olympics helps since NBA stats aren’t the only consideration; Parker should have a few more years to pad the stats too).
yeah stating only because of the championships does look really dumb
but I guess what I’m trying to say is that his stats don’t really do it for me and I have never really considered him a top tier point guard in the league..hes always in the 8-10th best range for a PG, but he probably will get in..I had no idea he was still just 28
by tmoneyttime1 on Apr 27, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Right now there are so many great PGs . . .
that it’s easy to overlook him. He’s a perfect fit for what San Antonio is doing. He’s shot a great shooting percentage over his career — almost 50 percent — with 50+ percent 4 times in 9 years. He had the top shooting percentage amongst PGs this year on almost 14 shots a game, which is outstanding.
I don’t see him as a first ballot guy, but the Basketball Reference link in my comment above has him at about a 57 percent chance, which sounds about right (the methodology that they use is about 96 percent accurate with a player at 50+ percent probability basically a near-lock for the Hall of Fame) . He’s not a lock, but in a few years he probably will be.
He and Manu are both locks
I’m pretty sure it’s the INTERNATIONAL bball HOF and that you get judged relative to guys from your own country, or there are quotas or something. So Parker and Manu are judged relative to other French and Argentinean players I think.
Parker led the league in point paints at least once and is always up there….i love that, would be thrilled if Wall did the same
by DCrez on Apr 27, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know about now
but at the age of 26, only Bryant scored more points by that age than Parker. He is up there and I am pretty sure he will be an HOFer.
by hambone jackson on Apr 28, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
List of Euros drafted in the top 40 the past 6 years
I did the top 40 because anything after that is super lucky, Euro or not. I did 6 years because if this is supposed to be the most important draft we have in the rebuild this pick better be good by 6 years from now and hopefully sooner. How many of these people would you want on your Wizards?
04
8. Rafael Araujo
9. Andris Biedrins
21. Pavel Podkolzine
22. Viktor Khryapa
23. Sergei Monia
27. Sasha Vujacic
28. Ben Udrih
30. Anderson Varejao
31. Jackson Vroman
32. Peter John Ramos
39. Albert Miralles
05
9. Ike Diogu
11. Fran Vazquez
12. Yaroslav Korolev
23. Francisco Garcia
27. Linas Kleiza
28. Ian Mahinmi
35. Ricky Sanchez
41. Roko Ukic
06
1. Andra Bargnani
10. Mouhamed Sene
18. Oleksiy Pecherov
27. Sergio Rodriguez
30. Joel Freeland
38. Kosta Perovic
40. Denham Brown
07
18. Marco Belinelli
30. Petteri Koponen
38. Kyrylo Fesenko
39. Stanko Barac
40. Sun Yue
08
6. Danilo Gallinari
20. Alexis Ajinca
24. Serge Ibaka
25. Nicolas Batum
31. Kikola Pekovic
36. Omer Asik
09
5. Ricky Rubio
23. Omri Casspi
25. Rodrigue Beabois
34. Sergio Llull
39. Jonas Jerebko
10
17. Kevin Seraphin
31. Tibor Pleil
35. Nemanja Bjelica
38. Andy Rautins
Well...
If we just go by Lottery….
Then here’s the list:
Rafael Araujo
Andris Biedrins
Ike Diogu
Fran Vazquez
Yaroslav Korolev
Andra Bargnani
Mouhamed Sene
Danilo Gallinari
Ricky Rubio
But we’re not talking about “just” a lottery pick here… We’re talking probably a top 5 pick… of which only Andra Bargnani and Ricky Rubio fit that category.
We’ve already got Andraya Blatchnani on our team….. and Rubio has never played a minute of NBA ball – so it’s difficult to tell if he will be great or a bust.
But given all that, Kanter should be better than every other International player on that entire list.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I could make a list with american busts that would be to long to post.....
the question is, do significantly more europeans flop?
i think they do but i have no emperical evidence for it. They travel half the world to play and live in a place where everything looks different, smells different, sounds different from what they have known for all their lives, far away from family and friends. And heck, even if you are american, making it in the NBA, or making it to the NBA for that matter is very very hard. So yeah i assume europeans flop at a higher rate.That doesn’t take anything away from the fact that other parts of the world also (china, south america) have great players who might or might not make it to (and in) the NBA.
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to douggie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on Apr 26, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the thing
I didn’t make a list of Euro busts. I made a list of all Euro players (excluding the Bogut, Fernandez, and Sefolosha – cuz I stupidly forgot them) not just busts. Your right I could do a list of just busts, but I did everyone.
There are good Euros I’m not saying there aren’t, but chances are a NBA GM is not going to pick the right one. I’d rather take someone who had a sucessfull 4 year carrer at Clemson (Booker) then a Euro with upside. I simply just think it is a safer pick.
Also, you need to cross Araujo off the list
Or, if you’re going to include him, you also need to include Andrew Bogut. Both went to school in the US.
your right again
I messed up on Duogu and Araujo ( I judged by their last name). I didnt include people like Greivis Vasquez who I knew played college ball in the US and fell like an idiot for missing Bogut .
I’m really not trying to be a smart ass on this post and I know I might come across this way, but all I’m trying to say is I don’t think the Euro game translates well to the NBA.
Ha ha we're just giving you a hard time.
I see your point. I don’t know what the numbers are for bust percentage (maybe one of our stat-heads can do that math). It’s possible that some of those picks in the last couple of years may still be stashed and could still make an impact. I think there is ample evidence that Euro players (perhaps we should widen it to “international” players) CAN succeed, but perhaps at a lower rate.
by MR on Apr 26, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Horford has always been the closest comparison to me
Similar size and build, though I think Horford has longer arms. Really strong, tough guys that play hard defense and can play inside and out on offense. Obviously we’ve all seen way more Horford, but from what I’ve seen of Kanter, I have HOPE that he has a higher ceiling because he has a very similar game, but is more developed/polished when it comes to post moves. And I’m sure most Wiz fans would sacrifice a limb to have Horford play next to McGee.
If I thought Kanter could be close to as good as Horford
i’d be all over drafting him. As it stands, imho Horford right now is probably better than Kanter is ever going to be.
best case would be I am completely wrong and EG drafts Kanter
Ramos is Puerto Rican
If you don’t include Nash, why would you include Ramos who is an American citizen?
by hambone jackson on Apr 28, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The key factor . . .
isn’t nationality as much as it is whether the player played college ball in the U.S.
Nash played four years at Santa Clara and in the NCAA tournament. Before getting drafted Ramos’s experience was mostly with Puerto Rico’s basketball league.
The idea here is that there’s a little less risk with NCAA players, because of the level of competition. In a lot of cases too you can make educated guesses about how their skills will translate, because at some point they’ve played against players who are already in the NBA (either in AAU or NCAA). With the Euroleaguers and other international leagues there’s a lot more guess-work.
<blockquote.whether the player played college ball in the U.S. Then there are a handful of American born players to be included on the list. Including Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis…. And Kleiza comes off.
Anyway, the stated criteria leaves off some of the better foreign players (Horford, Gordon, Deng, etc.); they played in american colleges because they were among the best prospects (and mostly had the explicit intent to play in the NBA), not the other way around.
Nothing wrong with the argument, per se. He just need to consider his criteria, and which players fit.
Sorry the quotes got messed up:
whether the player played college ball in the U.S.
Then there are a handful of American born players to be included on the list. Including Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis…. And Kleiza comes off.
Anyway, the stated criteria leaves off some of the better foreign players, who played in american colleges because they were among the best prospects (and mostly had the explicit intent to play in the NBA), not the other way around.
Nothing wrong with the argument, per se. He just need to consider his criteria, and which players fit.
I see what you're saying . . .
think he pulled the list together quickly — so some names were left off and some left on by mistake.
The big question as I see it — and I think we agree — is not “where was this player born?”.
The more important question is: “how can we tell what kind of a player this person is going to be in the NBA”? It’s always a crap-shoot — even with NCAA players. It’s even harder when you’re talking about 18 year old players (regardless of whether they’re in the U.S. or overseas.
I think there probably is more speculation when we’re talking about Euroleagues than the NCAA, or elite prep schools in the U.S., but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t great players who come to the NBA from a route outside the U.S.
Rudy Fernandez? Thabo Sefolosha? Andrew Bogut (sort of)? Luol Deng?
by MR on Apr 26, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Deng was a Brit (despite going to Duke). So college is the cutoff? Guess that makes Kobe and Jennings Euros?
by MR on Apr 26, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
that's the crux of it
My apprehension with international players has nothing to do with them being from somewhere else. It’s that they get drafted off of rumors and shaky youtube footage against often questionable competition. They dont get picked apart and therefore more likely to be duds when drafted high. everybody is “the next Dirk” “the next Pau” “the next Nene”
guys like Deng and Bogut are no different than American players when drafted imo
You think the GMs and scouts are relying on rumors and youtube footage?
by MR on Apr 26, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they feel tremendous pressure not to miss the "next" Dirk.
and that the picture is often muddied come draft time as they try and goad each other into moves. for instance i’m fairly convinced many teams knew rubio wasnt that good despite what was going on publicly. Just my opinion
Rubio was acknowledged to be a middling athlete with a terrible J
What nba PG fits that bill? I’d like to think the majority of nba GMs saw right through the hype
If you played college ball here you aren't a Euro bball player
I did miss Bogut, Sefolosha, and Fernandez maybe I recongized the name a skipped over it (and feel like an idiot for posting without them bc they are good Euros – and yes are some good ones) and I mistakenly included Duogu and Arajo based on how I thought their last name sounded sorry (I did that whole post in 5 min) . I didn’t include Deng on purpose because he played college ball here just like I don’t think Vasquezs counts.
Think that's the right critieria . . .
the most important question isn’t really even “where was this player born” — the big question is: “When players are successful in the Euro leagues, how much of that is going to translate to the NBA?”
Taking the 2006 draft as an example, Bargnani strikes me as the right choice over some players also drafted in the lottery that year (e.g. Adam Morrison, Shelden Williams, Patrick O’Bryant, maybe even Tyrus Thomas); other players on the other hand were undervalued like Aldridge, Roy (before the knee injuries). He strikes me as a disappointing #1 overall pick, but the 2006 draft was something of a disappointment anyways — especially after Roy started having knee problems.
I agree - I didn't take that into account
I believe if i was a GM in 06, I would have taken Tryus Thomas and maybe Williams over Bargnani in 06 and missed, although I think Thomas may still be an ok player but def not number 1 worthly (I don’t think Gonzaga, Duke, and Bradley are elite nba talent schools although I think they have great nba role players). And no I don’t think LSU is an elite nba talent school either but Duke doesnt recruite a Tryus Thomas. Of coarse itd be easy to say take Aldridge, but we could play that game all day. Bargnani is a good player who I’d like, not love, to have on this team. He plays hard on a struggling team (though I’d like to see more boards) and looks like he cares. Thats what I want most from this pick is someone who at least looks like they care. Booker looks like he cares and I was wrong about his pick at 23, so maybe I’m wrong about Euros too. It’s just my opinion
The apples to apples . . .
would be to look at how those numbers compare to U.S. based players drafted in the same years at around the same draft spot.
Also, the list isn’t comprehensive. I haven’t proofed it, but based on a quick eye ball test you missed at least two players from 2007.
e.g. Rudy Fernandez — 1st round (#24)
Tiago Splitter — 1st round (#28)
I agree that this is an important draft, but there’s a presupposition too that there will necessarily be a better U.S. based player available wherever the Wizards pick. Some draft years are better than others. In some cases though there’s a strong incentive to roll the dice on an unknown quantity simply because the available talent doesn’t have much upside.
Pech may have been a bust as a pick, but if the Wizards were thinking in terms of front court players in 2006 there weren’t many “right” answers from 18 on. There were a few role players and back-ups, but no front court starters emerged. On the other hand, if the Wizards had simply gone “best player available” they might have nabbed some good back-court players — including a great one in Rondo.
My ideology is
there is a difference in mindset of play in a Euro and American player. Blatche is the second best Euro player in the league and look at how much we critic his play. A Euro plays more of a finesse game and I dont want any more finesse players.
That was kind of the same attitude . . .
that MJ brought to the table when he picked Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol (part of the criticism at the time was that Gasol was “soft” compared to Kwame). Gasol still sometimes gets the wrap as being soft, but he’s also a pretty good basketball player.
Who knows.
I think any statement that attempts to generalize about a population of tens of millions of people is probably going to be wrong, even if it has some very, very loosely grounded truth to it.
My tendency would be to try to throw those kind generalizations out the window and just watch the players play. Judge each player on his own merits.
I respect that
and if I came across as racist/imperialistic I am sorry – that was definately not my point. I would say the say thing about Duke players, generally their game does not translate well to elite NBA talent. I just think if all the generally accpeted talent is taken already in a draft, a young man who played college ball for 3 or 4 years is more ready/a better prospect for the NBA then a young Euro player.
Its the same to me as a person who went to Harvard business school is better prepared for the business world then me – maybe he/she is maybe he/she isn’t but its just the safer bet.
by WizKids58 on Apr 26, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see your point . . .
As far as NBA ready versus a prospect goes, it depends. Based on that kind of criteria you might take a guy like Marcus Morris who looks like he could be a decent pro — even if his ceiling would almost never justify a top 5 selection in most drafts.
On the other hand, there’s always the case of a guy like Dirk Nowitzki. He’d just turned 20 when the NBA draft took place. His first season was unspectacular, but starting in year two he started to post solid numbers. By year three and four he’d more than justified his selection at #9 overall. The talent evaluation turned out to be right on the mark for Dallas and his selection has paid big dividends. Statistically there doesn’t appear to be anyone close to him in terms of production — I haven’t vetted the numbers — so the comparison probably doesn’t apply in this instance (Kanter may be an exception — although health is a big question mark). It may be one of those situations where the Wizards end up trying to find a more established young prospect already in the NBA and deal the pick. I wouldn’t write off any of the European players yet though. Hopefully the whole discussion is moot, and the Wizards can get a relative low-risk prospect like Derrick Williams.
True that
I’d want Williams no matter who else was in this draft. I was never high on Sullinger. Barnes scared me a little cuz he couldn’t handle being a top recuit in the beginning so I don’t know how he would handle being a top pick. P Jones is a Blatche who went to an ok college. So I like D Williams and think he would be prefect with Wall. And I think the Kanter/T Jones Kentucky tie would work well too.
by WizKids58 on Apr 27, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If the Timberwolves are in position to draft Derrick WIlliams
I’d love to trade our pick for Wes Johnson. He was not used properly in Minny. But he showed his jumper is legit. Put him at the three and lets run.
by zeke5123 on May 4, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hard to argue with that idea . . .
especially if the Wizards don’t land one of the top 3 picks. That’s a good contingency plan.
Why is Blathce being called a Euro???
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 26, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a joke
I was playing off his “Im a finesse player” quote
by WizKids58 on Apr 26, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, I had to ask
I actually felt like I might be missing something.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 26, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
haha no prob
I’m not Chris Rock so maybe my jokes arent so funny
That's international players not only Euros
You got some South Americans, Chinese and Africans mixed in with the Euros
I like the Bullets
Your right
After looking at his stats and teams records – Pau has always been pretty good. I was wrong about the “I dunno howd he be on a bad team” part.
the "stash them in europe" strategy should be used on 2nd rounders only
because if you are talented enough to be a 1st round pick, playing for a few years in europe just retards your growth. Rubio is a great example, all he is doing is getting more and more comfortable with a style of play that wont work here. If we were to draft a Euro, get him in camp in year1 sink or swim
It's a way to take a chance on a player without committing salary or a roster spot.
Unlike the D League.
I truly don't understand the hatred directed at Euro players
There are numerous American busts at top draft picks. Sure a lot of Euro’s have busted (the same is true of Americans) but a lot have panned out (just like Americans). You could have a pretty good NBA team by grabbing all the french players. That is only one countries players.
I am not saying you feel this way but I believe hatred of European players comes from either racism (they are usually white) or intense nationalism. Both qualities are not useful for building a team.
Don't forget the Buyout issue
I would hate to be embarassed like the TWolves were. Ernie better be damn sure he can bring a Kanter or a Biyombo over before drafting them, and I’m not sure you can be sure. If there’s any doubt, get a tried and true American basketball player. We need to get a big and some scoring out of this draft. Then again, it feels like this offseason may be a total waste of time with a lockout looming. It’s the perfect time for the Boulez to get a Top 10 pick, but not the perfect time to draft a LeBron or a Durant.
Bargnani is a good player who I’d like, not love, to have on this team. He plays hard on a struggling team (though I’d like to see more boards) and looks like he cares. Thats what I want most from this pick is someone who at least looks like they care. Booker looks like he cares and I was wrong about his pick at 23, so maybe I’m wrong about Euros too. It’s just my opinion
Agree, Someone who cares and wants to win as a team.
I have no problem with Bargnani...
Toronto misuses him horribly. In the right situation he is a 22-12 guy who can spread the court and put the ball on the floor if he has to… not unlike Nowitzki.
The Euros are soft stuff is simply prejudice, IMO. Marcin Gortat is a HARD man. And Nikola Pekovic is pretty tough too.
And back in the day, old Zabonis had some soft moves around the basket and was a great interior passer, but he would also just as soon deck you if need be.
Whaat?
22-12…
As in 12 REBOUNDS?
He is the sorriest rebounder in the entire league at 7 ft tall. He cannot create space to box out, nor does he have the will to! He’s much more inclined to let Reggie Evans or Amir Johnson dominate the defensive glass.
by jsuh0 on May 2, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yikes
So Kanter didn’t work out at the UK “combine”.
Draft express tweeted that he won’t be working out at all, for anyone. LAST YEAR’S Hoop Summit was enough… wow.
you know this a truly a bad draft
when a guy who hasnt played in a year is advised to ride a high school all-star game to a lotto pick.
Well - either that....
Or he got assurances from someone that he would be picked high….
No reason to risk injury working out if you already know you’ll be selected in the top 5 or 6….
Remember, he worked out in front of the Utah Jazz General Manager back in March…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Risk injury?
That’s a pretty remote risk. Risk lower draft position is more probable.
by MR on May 7, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Several players injured themselves during workouts last year...
And several more the year before….
It happens every year…. This guy pulls a ham string… that guy tweaks a knee…. They pull out of the rest of their workouts – or struggle through at 3/4 speed….
Where is the motivation for Kanter to risk that? With the draft the way it is this year, he’s assured of a top 3 spot… no matter whether he does workouts or not…. so why take the risk?
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Who has injured themselves in workouts?
Are you talking about actual injury, or someone pulling out and saying it’s because they’re injured?
It’s what like an hour workout at most? I have no doubt that someone can get injured any time any place, but if you’re talking about thousands of hours of workouts and games in a season, to not do a brief workout at this point because of injury seems less than honest.
by MR on May 9, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
is ther an example
of someone who was injured and lost draft positions because of it?
I remember one of the Rush boys getting hurt, but didn’t he go back to school?
You get injured playing basketball.
Practice, workouts, streetball or actual games are all ‘playing basketball’.
Logic tell’s me that working out is taking a risk to get injured, so yeah, if he has reason to believe he is locked for a top #3 to #5 pick, not playing more than your individual schedule is the rational thing to do.
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to douggie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on May 10, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not like Terrence Jones and Brandon Knight arent elite guys too
draftexpress has Knight going before Kanter….but both TJones and Knight worked out at the Kentucky combine.
The troubling aspect is that Coach Cal is guiding these guys to the highest draft position he can, and there is a good chance he determined it was better that Kanter did not workout in front of these 20 nba teams….on his homecourt, with his teamates and coach in a scenario that would seem tailor-made to excel.
Why would that be? my GUESS…standing next to Terence Jones in public hurts Kanter’s draft stock
Calculated risk
More likely he knows he won’t measure well. If you’re going to get picked in the top 3, why risk that by showing everyone you’re really 6’8.5" with a 25" vertical? (That’s fairly likely based on the videos I’ve seen). That could end up dropping you down behind a guy like Bismack Biyombo because he has a 21-foot wingspan and can jump out of the gym.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
by steadyhand on May 9, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No dude, if he really is 6'8 with a 25" vertical, it will come out before the draft anyway
No way in hiding you’re measurements till after the actual draft.
"I'll be lounging on the couch, just chillin in my snuggie, klick to MTV so they can teach my how to douggie" (Buno Mars, The lazy song)
by Dutch Hoopfan on May 10, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it won't.
If he doesn’t come to the official measurements, how would it “get out”? What are Rondo’s measurements? How about Rubio’s? Rumors only.
It says on Draft Express that he measures 6’10" in shoes. Shoes normally add about 1 to 2 inches at the combine. In videos, it doesn’t look like he can jump very high. If you’re Kanter, do you really want those numbers to become official? Wouldn’t rather just let your reputation stand for itself?
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
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