On Heart, Desire and Your Washington Wizards
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 1:43 AM EDT
in Team Analysis
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PrintIn lieu of a normal recap, I want to address an issue that has been percolating on BF and was addressed by both Coach Flip Saunders and the players following tonight's game. Following the emergence of Jordan Crawford, many seem ready to call and end to the Nick Young era in Washington and give the reins over to the exciting rookie shooting guard. Now, I don't want this post to temper any enthusiasm that one might have for Jordan Crawford. The argument I would instead like to put forth is that it might behoove us to stop thinking of Crawford/Young as an either/or situation and rather one that can be leveraged to bring out the best in both players.
Coach Flip Saunders looked likely to initially refute my statement in his postgame conference. For the third time this season Saunders invoked the name of Wally Pip the famous New York Yankee who took a game off, only to be replaced by Lou Gehrig and never regain his starting position. However, Saunders was quick to take a step back from his comments and use another player as an example of how competition can only be beneficial to a team:
It should prove to our veterans and guys who aren't playing at times that hey if you play hard you give yourselves a chance if you play as a team...but yet, you've got a guy in O who was playing in the NBDL two weeks ago. Now he is starting and playing 30 minutes and being very productive. And he's not playing like the is someone behind him, he's chasing someone, he's hungry, and our guys are playing like that and that's a positive...competition is good, competition is really good. I give credit to our guys, I give credit to JaVale tonight. He played a great game and in the last few minutes we went with Yi...so I give credit to JaVale for stepping back because of the situation. That's what you're talking about as far as maturity in young guys.
And now from Othyus on what drives him:
I mean that's what the team pays me for. They pay me to go out there and get after people. And hopefully it works out and I can last longer...I'm not doing nothing that I'm not supposed to be doing. I'm supposed to be working this hard. I'm trying to make it here. I'm supposed to be doing this. The little things that other people don't want to do, I should doing this. So I don't look as if I'm different from anyone else on the team, I should be doing it.
And even Andray Blatche got in on the action:
I feel good to back. I just wanted to have fun out there. The whole time I was out it made me see don't take nothing for granted. So when I came back I just came back with a lot of energy and I'm just happy to be playing again.
Othyus Jeffers is playing like a man who knows his job is on the line. He references the fact that he know that his time in the NBA may be short, and he wants to make the most out of what may be one of his final opportunities. He is going to keep pushing and keep pushing until the league tells him to go away or he finally makes it on a team.
Andray Blatche can see that with the slow emergence of a new low post threat in JaVale McGee, his up and down play throughout the year, and the likelihood of a high Wizards draft pick that his PT in Washington might be under threat. Perhaps he is recalling the work that he had to put in to finally push towards decamping Antawn Jamison from the starting PF spot. Maybe he see the work that Jeffers, Martin and Crawford are putting in and it has turned on the lightbulb. But tonight, we received the most complete Andray Blatche performance of the year from a guy's whose demeanor was a bit less cocky and miles more businesslike.
Which brings me back to Jordan Crawford and Nick Young. It would be nice to know right now which shooting guard will be the best fit with John Wall for the next several years. The performances of each over different periods during the season has led us to anoint each as the SG of the future. But would it be a bad thing to have both players going into next year? Would it be so terrible to have both players going into camp without knowing their starting role, leading both to work extra hard during the summer? Further, would it be such a terrible idea to throw the minimum at a player like Jeffers who would push both players in practice each and every day?
I don't have the answers to these questions at the moment. However, I rather go into next year's training camp with the ability to entertain that question rather than make a snap decision on Player A being better than Player B. For right now, I'm content that the Wizards have two young exciting options at SG. Because at this time last year, the franchise didn't appear to possess one on the roster.
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excellent point
But I don’t think team competiton on such a young team is a good thing it’ll cause selfishness and eventually dissension. I think what has to happen is a pecking order has to emerge its working out now because guys are out but when all are healthy how are you gonna stunt the growth of a player like Crawford.
I’ve watched alot of Nick Young the past few season’s and he couldn’t have played a game like Crawford did tonight Crawford blew me away tonight with his intellect and his willingness to be unselfish for the betterment of the team to be coachable and play a totally different role then the previous game. He was spectacular in my mind Nick Young can’t play that way he’s a black hole and spurt scorer when he gets hot he gets white hot but he doesn’t pass it and doesn’t play with the energy and fervor Crawford does when his shot isn’t falling.
I do think in the Crawford Young analysis its either or tying ourselves to Young longterm I think hinders Crawford because he’d have to have the limited role off the bench and Wall, Craw and Young can’t play together on a teams thats winning games.
I have no idea what sorta salary and market there is for Young.
as for Blatche I still wan him gone he had a heck of a game tonight but I just don;t see him doing enough other things to be a go to guy consistently he scored 36 points but took 32 shots thats just ugly and inefficient for a 6’11 player. He murdered the boards and played as you mentioned a complete game but the fg % scares me he just takes too much of the offensive focus on a nightly basis.
Agree on the importance of establishing a pecking order
No reason not to let out play out
There its only one side in the locker room
John Walls.
Let NY and JC go at it next year, and keep the best one.
JC doesn’t give up. Young could never thrive with someone as hungry as Crawford breathing down his neck
If Jordan works like crazy on his shot he could be a Ray Allen type guy for us.
I think Crawfords desire beats out Youngs natural ability.
As I said below...you have to keep in mind that JC can sub in for JW or
NY…that makes him awfully valuable off the bench. His defense is also currently a liability, although that won’t always stay that way. Let’s all celebrate what a great opportunity we have instead of considering it a problem. Any rotation of the three will be legitimate in the Eastern Conference.
Finally, let’s not overuse NY’s play his first three years too dramatically. I think his play as a starter is a much better barometer. And I include these last 5 games, where I have seen a significant drop off. Hopefully it was an injury, but that does have to be taken into account which I why I can’t just dismiss JC as garnering attention for a starting role.
But let’s not create a controversy when we have the opportunity to create a contender. Manu came off the bench forever, and was the heart of the team.
Starter or 6th man isn’t really the right question. It is how do we effectively use all of them.
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I still think Jordan Crawford can be our Jamal Crawford.
Perfect sixth man…
And I really regret the fact that I haven’t seen the Wizards play lately. Whenever I see the box scores I notice someone has had a monster game or our team has put up a fight.
And Andray. Please keep this up. Whatever the hell motivated you, keep playing this way. PLEASE.
He could be better than his brother
Seems to drive and pass better than Jamal
by The Art Of War on Apr 2, 2011 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone should watch that video
The one thing that jumps out is how dramatically better his vision and passing skills are from NY.
That's the video I was just about to post..
Anyone doubting Crawford as a starter should watch that video. Even if he is the perfect 6th man. Give that man minutes. I want him to be our Jason Terry for the next 10 years.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 2, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He is better than his brother
Jordan’s brother is Joe Crawford, not Jamal. Joe currently plays in China.
I don't think we should necessarily tell any player that he needs to be a sixth man
especially early in his career, when every player would like to be a starter, especially on a bad team like ours.
We should just experiment with guys not named John Wall to start games and at other times they should be part of our 2nd line, and let the chips fall where they may.
by thewiz06 on Apr 2, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anybody else think John Wall, still fuming over punchgate, is coming back trying to destroy people?
I cannot freaking wait til this guy develops a reliable shot
Oh! Get over it
We all know that JC is on his way to start. I don’t think any one of us saw this one coming, but it is what it is. There is not one doubt in my mind that JC will be paired with Wall in the back court and so what? Are we supposed to have a funeral for NY? I hardly think this is any sort of precedent being set here in the history of American athletics. JC is an unusually gifted player and he will be on that court playing. NY can shoot the ball and he will have his NBA career, but we cannot bemoan the reality that he will no longer be the Wiz starting 2. I think its a hallucination to believe that will be otherwise.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 7:13 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
have NY as the starter and make JC the spark plug off the bench for offensive production (to continue to add pressure against opposing defenses), and honestly NY has pretty much ‘grown up’ in front of the Wiz organization, right now JC is still finding his way into the organization and he’s proving he’s worth the risk to take.
He has made the case that he can be the starter.
Now, is that the best possible rotation. That remains to be seen. Since JC can spell NY or JW, he could play more than NY but not start and wind up even being a closer. See Manu.
Let’s not turn this into an unnecessary controversy. Let’s make it a blessing.
Bingo
He likes to score and excels at it. As a sixth man he can be the main scorer with the second unit, but also play with starters especially in important situations like closing out games. If he’s told that the organization’s vision for him is Manu, then I’m sure he’d buy in.
The Truth is that this MAY end up
and I’m sort of jumping the gun here, but it may be one of the worse trades in the past 5 years. The Hawks GM must be kicking himself right now. Props to Ernie Grunfeld.
Dear Passionate fan, I know you are passionate, but please reply with a logical answer or I will ignore you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Apr 2, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
hambone
you just missed the entire point of the post.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't think he missed the point...
I think he just disagreed. Just because someone doesn’t see things the same way doesn’t mean they don’t get it.
by Kenny Sky Walker on Apr 2, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
actually not true
the whole point is to step away from that argument for a moment. Which, you know, he didn’t do.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I concur
At this point, JC is a playmaker, the best on the team at driving and dishing, he has good court vision and he isn’t afraid to shoot big shots. He plays with fire, the type of intensity that can get teammates like Blatche pumped up. NY, on the other hand, is one of the most improved players in the league, specially defensively and shots off screens. Problem is he over dribbles, settles for kobe shots and isn’t worth overpaying. Mcgee is playing superb, still makes boneheaded plays but I think he is getting it. There’s no denying the excellent on court chemistry JC and Mcgee have!
Crawford could be like a 2nd point guard in our lineup.
and as Wall continues to improve his jump shot, they could play off each other. Just like what many of us were thinking when Gilbert was still here.
I'd be happy if next year's coach...
…had no pre-conceived notions, particularly when it comes to rookies and mistakes.
Young, McGee and even Crawford wouldn’t have gotten the burn had Flip had any viable alternatives to them this year. Yet these guys should be an important part of the team going forward.
Next year, we’ll have two draft choices and Booker that will need minutes to become valuable assets to the team.
I only have one simple song for you
Blatche, Blatche, Blatche
Blatche, Blatche, Blatche.
Grabbing 16 O boards tonight
oh what fun it is to see Dray
leading the way.
I could go on, but nuff said.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess my reaction is that....
….after last year, Flip was going to play Blatche come hell or high water. Yet, Blatche really was off of his game for the vast majority of the year. Injuries are understandable. But over-eating, constant partying, being out of shape, fighting with teammates, etc. is not good. It showed up on the court. He had no energy. Hence, his shot suffered and he cheated on defensive (but was constantly beaten).
Blatche’s rap is that he is now 1 in 5. That will make it hard to get any value for him.
Just curious, but what makes you think that the partying/fighting lead to Blatche's problems
and not the injuries?
It's not one thing
If it were only the injury, he could have overcome that with a 7-day-a-week work plan. Instaead, he said himself that he was having trouble with eating and it was making it difficult for him to get back in shape.
The “it” refers to the combination of factors. While injuries are difficult to control, recovery from a broken bone is within the players control. It didn’t happen in this case. Let’s see how Booker looks in camp next season by comparison.
Blatche got minutes this year because he is the best big on the team
By far. He is also still developing and will continue to for at least the next 3 years, being 24. See Odom, who didn’t fully develop until he was damn near 30.
He’s not the highest upside big on the roster, McGee is. And McGee is catching up (which is also the reason why we’ve been so competitive recently – decent center play). But that’s not the point. If Flip had given his minutes to someone else, we’d have about 10 fewer wins this year, by my estimation.
by jones-y on Apr 2, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He also broke his foot
which takes forever for big men to rehab from and came back early. He has strained both legs, and dislocated his shoulder twice. Blatche may not have the “best” habits (though I’m not sure that there is any evidence of this) but you should also notice that he is basically wearing body armor out there because he has been injured so much
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm amazed that people are still using the broken foot...
To excuse Blatche’s play. Will it make him a crappy player for the next 10 seasons, too?
Why - look at the history of big men rehabbing foot injuries
and how long they take to recover. Or how they derail careers. Or how Blatche came back early. I’m not sure its an excuse as much as something that needs to be considered when assessing Blatche.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
the concerns with blatche extend beyond bad play. he was an absolute head case at times this season, in a fight w a teammate at a nightclub in the middle of the night, and his continued insistence to define himself as a player who did not fit the role needed by a team (remember all the finesse player talk). Personally, i feel he is a big. and if he doesnt want to play big as a big for this team we should move him. having said that, i think he could be a really really good karl malone type if he ever improved his desire and discipline.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So do we ditch Blatche cuz he's volatile?
Famous head-cases: Barkley, Rodman, Artest, Iverson, Gilbert, Maravich, Webber, MMalone, Sprewell, CAnthony, SJackson, RWallace, etc….the list can go on and on. Question is I guess: what kind of head-case is he?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Yeah Blatche may be an excellent post scorer but it is just something about him...
and McGee is starting to develop a post game as well which is looking dangerous. I’d like to keep McGee and get another big to play alongside him (that can play alongside him unlike Blatche). Maybe we can trade Blatche for another post scorer that does not have the issues he has and a backup pg. I’d take JJ hickson.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
There were also two people in that fight
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That comment seems to be a non sequitur
But somewhat related to the inference, McGee ought to continue to bulk up again after the season. He needs to be able to hold his position against the bigger dudes around the league. If he has another fight with Blatche, I suspect that they will both get more than 1 game suspensions. For example, a curfew would make sense for both of them.
No I'm just pointing out
that bad habits are not the sole domain of Andray Blatche.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Against the Cleveland Cavaliers.
With Harangody, Hollins, and Hickson trying to box him out.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
I've never looked at Young/Crawford
As an either/or situation, and I don’t really understand the position of people that do. Nick Young is still a great fit next to Wall, while Crawford’s still a very inefficient volume shooter. There’s something about Crawford that makes me feel that he will be a very very valuable asset off the bench though.
Why Can't all 3 play here?
I remember the Pistons being pretty good with Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, and Vinnie Johnson splitting time in the backcourt. I’m guessing that those who want NY gone is that they believe we can get some value from him.
matchups
i think it all comes down to matchups at the end of games moreso than who starts. ny is better defender at this point, and bigger, but i think jc has the potential. the real question isn’t who plays better off wall—he would make me look good—but rather if crawford and ny can play together. after tonight, it seems like jc can handle running the team when he has to.
by kevin22 on Apr 2, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m guessing that those who want NY gone is that they believe we can get some value from him.
Nah – I think it’s the “shiny new toy” syndrome…. You know, those that cannot see past Nick’s first two years under Eddie Jordan and Ed Tapscott… continue to see a “chucker” and “black hole” – refuse to see the positives (defense, low mistakes, efficient scoring, 3-point shot) from Young but accentuate the positives for Crawford… while ignoring his deficiencies (efficiency, defense, turn overs)…
In my mind – I see two young players, still developing. I like the fact that Young changed his game to help the team. After more than 8 years playing a certain way – Flip asked him to change, and he did. I like Crawford’s fire and energy….
But I’m also a realist – there are reasons Nick Young is not an all around player (yet).. He has poor court vision. He doesn’t rebound. And there are reasons to be concerned about Jordan Crawford as well… Either or both could be good enough to be a starter – and Either or both could be replaced with a better player.
I’m with Sean Fagan on this one – Let them fight it out… Competition is good.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 2, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Right, what's the risk
They’re not vying for control of the team or anything
You didn't name the reasons to be concerned about Crawford..lol
Just compare Crawford rookie year with Nick’s rookie year. Crawford has a better shot, court vision, tenacity, TOUGHNESS, passing ability, etc. that Nick. I see Nick as a bench player that come in the game and give us instant scoring. Nick is soft. Why would u want a soft scorer starting. Guys like Crawford, Booker, Wall, and Jeffers embody what we are instilling into this organization and I am confident those guys will have big roles with this team in the future. Specifically Crawford as a starter.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 2, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh he did
He is inefficient and turns the ball over. Plus, he has gotten tons more time than Young did in his rookie year
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Crawford will eat Young alive in a "competition"
Crawford has already shown that he can shoot, has great court vision, plays defense and has a high basketball IQ. Young can shoot, can’t pass, doesn’t rebound as well as Crawford, disdains defense, and has a low basketball IQ. Crawford’s toughness has been exhibited already by coming into a new team and taking control and not deferring IMMEDIATELY. As Sean wrote, I think a competition would be good for both. Young could be the new microwave off the bench, but I don’t trust him night in and night out as a starter. But no worries, in a competition this will be obvious to the new coach – Crawford starts, Young off the bench and the Wiz much improved next year with this alone.
His defense is demonstrably better
Than Crawford’s. I am interested in how you could come to that conclusion or a conclusion about his basketball IQ. What is your basis for either assertion?
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
In fact, it’s way too early to come to any conclusions about Crawford, other than it appears he has potential. Anything else, with the dearth of evidence available, is simply guessing.
Hey mae.jude followers
The Post reported that NY couldn’t “grasp” Flip’s offense last year and lost playing time as a result; he loses his man and then picks up no one else on defense wandering around lost; and has been here now for several years and has never had the game Crawford – a rookie – had last night. I like NY but have been disappointed with his development; he was a superstud at USC. We will see what the competition reveals next year, assuming we sign him. There is absolutely no basis to say that Young’s defense is good.
it doesnt matter…nick young is a better defender and shooter right now. crawford might have more upside but he shouldnt be starting over nick right now. this is a twenty win team…every starting spot should be earned by the player who is closest to doing all the things the coaches are asking from them- even wall. (of course, JW is the best guard on the team and earns his starting role.). even with nick starting, there are plenty of minutes for crawford to use to develop.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
If we have to use stats
Nick Young’s PER is much better vis a vis opponents that Crawford. For what that is worth
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
No. I just think NY will not be comfortable coming off the bench.
If he’s alright with being that soft scorer that comes off the bench and gets instant scores.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
they certainly can. and in fact it would be great. i am very comfortable starting young at the two with only the following skillset- solid defense, solid shooting, limited turnovers, passes the ball when he doesnt have an open, good shot. he is pretty close in many of those areas. can he be consistent?
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
othyus jeffers may be undersized, but he equals it out with his heart and tenacity
on top of that he has an advantage on the floor with the gigantic mits he has at the end of his wrists, they allow him to hold the ball strong until the very last moment when going up for a putback among the trees, and give him more options when setting up shop in the one on one game
great addition to this squad
i agree -
and it baffles me that a guy like this can’t stick with a smart team. how is he any less valuable than a guy like raja bell, or someone in that mold? smart teams have guys like this and keep them and let them grow with the team in a way that the teams identity is in part shaped by the player.
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Apr 2, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
yep...look at how boston celtics fed off of
tony allen and his almost psychotic toughness out on the floor
by rzawrecktah on Apr 2, 2011 1:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because he has no offensive game whatsoever.
Bell, Barnes, Bowen, and others like them, excel on the defensive end, and don’t force their teams to play 4 on 5 offensively.
I must say, he is also impressing me, but he’ll need to add something to his offensive game (perhaps a post game against bigger/faster SGs?) to stick in the NBA. On the flip side, he seems to be almost perfect as the 4th guard in the rotation with JW, NY and JC. Perhaps he can even get spot minutes as a 3 when they go small against certain matchups.
What is your basis for this statement?
He scored almost all of his points last night unassisted? Two on very strong moves?
I am not quite sure how one can become D League MVP with no offensive game? I also doubt Flip would have started him if he had no scoring ability.
I would suggest a larger sample size before making this assertion. Unless you happened go catch a bunch of Jeffers on the D-league feed somewhere.
That being said. Rodman wasn’t a scorer either. You can create a role in the NBA without scoring at the league minimum.
I would suggest closing
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 4:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Strong moves to the basket.
Do you not think that defenses will adjust? Perhaps there isn’t enough time to see it happen this season, but defenses will adjust to his tendencies and they will shut him down.
Flip started him because the only other healthy backcourt player is another former d-leaguer. Credit to Jeffers for the way he’s played, no doubt. But he has no scouting report right now. Once he does, all those putbacks and strong drives to the rim are gonna come to an end. So he needs to add something to stick around. They did isolate him in the post a couple of times against a smaller SG, so perhaps that’s what they’ll tell him to focus on this offseason.
He’s a good story and I’d like to see him stick, he’s got the right attitude and the hustle. And he’s a fit, in terms of what he brings to the table. But the reality is he needs to add something to his game.
As for Rodman, we're talking about perhaps the greatest rebounder of all time...
And a great defender to boot.
I think the fact that he plays the best man defense on the team
is a reason for him to stick. Its a reason that Quinton Ross has/had a job. Jeffers completely locked out Parker, to the point that he was frustrated that he couldn’t receive the ball. On shut down possessions, the Wizards shifter Jeffers over to guard Davis. Again, the league might adjust to his limited offensive game, but hard nosed defense isn’t something that just washes away.
Counter to that, you are write in that he is undersized and that if larger guards start taking him to the block…well that could spell trouble.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I need to see more of his defense to declare him the best.
And being the best on-ball perimeter defender on this team isn’t the most difficult of tasks.
I agree with most of what you said
My only points were we don’t know ebought to state his offense is limited, to become d-league MVP he had to have some type of game, and finally even if he doesn’t people can carve out roles. I just used Rodman as an example, not a comparison.
Let’s see what he does after the adjustments. But 14 pts is reasonable in this league for anyone, especially when they are unassisted and not put backs.
We will see soon enough. I think he has an opportuntiy to create a very distinct role for himself. We will know after these final games if this is just a hot start or if it is his real game.
But hustle doesn’t really go away based on a scouting report sonhe has a chance.
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Garbage offense
Is something that a team can’t really make adjustments for. And I say garbage offense in the highest regard. Jeffers scores very efficiently without needing offensive sets run for him. The only way you can shut down his tendencies is to dedicate someone to watch like a hawk AND out-hustle him, but no team is going to scheme to take a garbage guy out of the game. If anything, his man will be the one to double on Wall, NY, or JC. Jeffers will always be able to make backdoor cuts to the hoop or sneak in for offensive putbacks. It’s impossible to scheme him out of a game because he plays that sneaky, old man ball. Defenses get lulled by his lack of involvement and as soon as his man has a lapse in focus, he takes advantage to make a play. He’s a guy that can score 6-8 points off the bench without having a single play run for him.
Ladies and Gentlemen...we have a winner
Wall, Young, Crawford are a great young core of guards. The only group that I can think of off of the top of my head that has such a young core of studs is OKC and Denver, (and DEN will probably be broken up). Even better, due to their size and positions, you can play any combination of the three and or even all three when you need scoring.
We have a beautiful thing on our hands ladies and gentlemen. Let’s not be too hasty. I still think NY is the better starter, because JC can spell JW or NY, but Nick can’t really run point. NY also is better at D. But JC starting is no longer something that I would just dismiss out of hand. I also just get the sense that Nick’s personality would let him fit in as a Manu type sixth man who still gets major minutes.
Finally, look at Othyus’ interview from Wed. He said, “I know I am not a superstar. I know I have to do something else to separate myself. I hope playing hard everyday, at every practice, in every game is enough to extend my say”. I really really really like this guy. He is the exact type of player folks like Dray and NY need to drive them when they get down a bit. He is always smiling, and just going after it.
Ted said we are going to reward young players who make a difference and continue to show improvement. Keeping all four guards will help drive that home. Let’s not use Nick’s first three years as the only sample. He is a starter in the league. What is so bad about having 4 people that can legitimately put up 35 on any given night? (Young, JC, Blatche, JW hopefully in the future).
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
the winner is this post btw - great points Sean
I watched the interviews quoted last night on Wizards.com because Flips post game had not show up. Everyone should go take a peak.
Is jordan crawford a starter
i think is silly at this point.
Look at it this one. If the draft was re-run right now, i think crawford is a top 5 pick.
Ahead of him: wall, cousins, monroe…thats it in my mind.
So a top 5 pick is going to start on a team as bad as the wizards.
in a way, grunfeld got his top 6 pick back
for the awful foye, miller trade last year
by arijordan on Apr 2, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Crawford is worthy of getting starts for this team
right now or getting starter minutes (30 minutes or more)
Why can't Nick spend time at SF?
He needs to add another 5 to 10 pounds of muscle to do it effectively on defense, but he could do that this summer.
He’d be able to play SF and backup SG when Crawford slides over to PG while Wall rests.
Nick could still get 30-36 mpg depending on if we end up taking a SF in the draft.
I don’t understand why it’s an “either or” situation here.
You can’t ever have too much scoring or outside shooting on a team, and Nick has proven that he can do both. We know he’s not known as a defender, but he’s shown signs this year and last year that when he puts his mind to it, he can defend because he has the size, length, and athleticism to do it.
by formula0 on Apr 2, 2011 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't rebound enough to be a starting SF
but this past off-season, he was preparing to playing mostly at the SF position if you remember. We had Wall coming in, Gil as the starting 2, and Hinrich playing both. There were reports that Nick had added on about 8 pounds of muscle in preparing for playing some at the 3. He can definitely get away with playing there, especially against smaller line-ups, but he doesn’t hit the glass enough to play the SF primarily.
by PhenomenalSwag on Apr 2, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't read too much into Andray's performance against the Cavs
In fairness, I am astonished at how good his shot looks, especially considering how long he’s been sitting out. And he hustled like a man possessed last night. However, the last couple games remind me too much of the end of last season, when Dray had everyone thinking he was a superstar. (Do you remember that?) If history is any indication, he’ll come back after the summer break and be in awful shape, unable to hit the broad side of a barn with that clunker j. I’m so tired of this routine.
Continuing the pessimistic note (w/ apologies): as time goes on, I think that we’ll experience much the same issues with Crawford that we’ve seen with Nick. If the buckets are dropping, all is well.. but when they’re not, what will he bring to the table? When you’re talking about an iso player, that is a significant question.
this is the funniest post i have ever read on this board
jc is an iso player?
the guy just put up a triple double in basically his 20th NBA game. If the guys didnt miss so many shots, he would have had 18 assists.
When Crawford has the ball, he's usually driving 1-on-1
If he gets assists, it’s usually because he’s being doubled. But he’s typically only being doubled if he’s hitting shots, which brings me back to the conclusion of the would-be funniest post of all time: when the buckets aren’t dropping, will Crawford still be a valuable contributor?
there are a ton of iso players in the NBA
none of them will ever get a triple double in their careers
assists are assists
suddenly are hockey (one-timer) assists the only valuable ones now… Withoutt jc the wiz would have had no semblance of O the last two games
by rzawrecktah on Apr 2, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL
JC is not an iso player, he shoots a lot but he thrives on the drive and dishes and perimeter passes to inside players, watch the highlight tape and get back to us. Also, you don’t get a triple double by merely being a chucker. The dude arguably has better court vision than Wall at this point.
he works primarily in ISO
and spends most of his time dribbling.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
A few things...
There is nothing wrong with having three fine guards sharing 96 minutes of PT. That is the least of the Wizards problems. JW, NY and JC are just what we need for 2011-12. Yes, there will be ups and downs with all three of them, but all the team needs is for any two of them to have a decent night every night and for no-one to get obsessive about wanting to the ball.
Up front, JaVale is starting to get it for real and Booker is definitely the energy guy in the frontcourt off the bench. I think Seraphin is gonna be OK too, and we can happily invest our pick from Atlanta in more big man power, just in case.
Now we have to ask ourselves if the Andray of last night is the one we will have seven days in and seven days out all of next year. Because if he is, then the calls to draft Kanter with our lottery pick should fade away, which is a good thing, because I suspect the Wizards are fixing to draft Harrison Barnes if he is available, otherwise it will be Derrick Williams or Perry Jones. And we still have a presumably healthy Shard with Mo Evans backing up at the 3.
By the bye, since I live in what some people call the CEE (Central and Eastern European) Region my Swiftian modest proposal is that we suggest to Andray Blatche that he simply change the spelling of his name to Andrezj Baltice (no problem for the WIzards’ crack tailors) and go from there. This immediately solves the problem of our need for a Central European big man. Andzrej is actually the most common first name in Poland… to the extent that each year on the name day (Saint’s Day) of Andrzej (St Andrew in English) the Police here put on extra details to check on the alcohol levels of all drivers with that name, as they all celebrate at once (one’s Name Day being far more important than one’s Birthday).
Go Wiz!!
in 6 seasons has AB played even 50 solid all around games, including defense. I HIGHLY doubt it. get kanter…we need to get tough inside. period.
though i agree, i am less than 50% convinced ernie will go with the obvious need. his job is on the line. he will go mainstream with his pick and not draft a guy who has not played a game publicly.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I just think that JC has given us a very good reason not to overpay NY this summer
NY could play the 3 but he’d definitely have to work on his commitment to rebounding and defense.
Also, Dray is Z-Bo 2.0.
@addc
by addc on Apr 2, 2011 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wish
Z is actually one of the better rebounders in the League…. and a real low post scoring threat.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
RIght now, I don’t even care which one starts next year. I’m just thrilled that we have a good problem for a change. To come out of this miserable 20-win (give or take) season with a core 4-guard rotation (Wall, NY, Craw, Jeffers), hard-nosed depth (wouldn’t feel comfortable saying starters) in the frontcourt (Booker T. Washington, Seraphin), an oddly developing center (McGee), a no worst than top-6 pick in the draft, a mid-first, and an early second (which I could see getting flipped at this point) is overwhelming. We can see the light! On top of that, we have a decent cap situation, Lewis’ guaranteed salary goes way down after next season, and the enigma which is Blatche, and we may even have assets to acquire talent or picks down the line.
The way we were constructed, we would have been one of those marginal teams like Atlanta (irony), good enough to perennially lose in the second round of the playoffs. The re-construction of this roster has been amazing. I really believed Gun-gate saved this franchise, as it forced the demolition of that tragically flawed squad.
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions
Our cap situation is better than decent.
We might be one of the lowest in the league after the season once the expirings get off the books.
I really hope we keep Jeffers. He reminds me of Tony Allen. Hard working on defense, goes after every rebound, always plays with energy, how could we not keep this guy? When’s the last time we had a guy with those qualities? There’s no reason not to sign him to the minimum.
by PhenomenalSwag on Apr 2, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
HAHA
You’re right. It’s much better than decent. You caught me trying to curb my enthusiasm a bit there. I just hope we’re smart about not going all Joe Dumars this offseason (circa two years ago, when the cap room must’ve been burning holes in his pocket when he overpaid for Gordon and Charlie V), although the lockout may make all of this moot. There don’t appear to be any players with spending serious money. I don’t think Gasol is attainable, and after that we’re talking about Caron and David West? No thanks.
Jeffers is a perfect glue guy, to me. And I don’t see any reason why a little financial stability from us would change his desire. Doesn’t seem like he has that kind of demeanor. He fits the bill of a core complementary player for us.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
*worth spending serious money
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Really depends on Nick's price this summer
It sucks that he’s a free agent, because in a vacuum, I’d agree with the larger point that there’s nothing wrong with having all three. But for a team that’s rebuilding, you have to be very careful about the contracts you hand out.
by Mike Prada on Apr 2, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
True
It leads me to the question as to whether RFA usually get crazier contracts that FA’s
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Often times, yes
But this summer is such a crazy time that it’s really hard to predict how things are going to shake out.
My guess is that Nick is back next year on a reasonable long-term deal for less than what the MLE would have been. Throwing a dart, I’ll say four years and 18 million.
The second question is
would you sign Jeffers to the minimum based on the fact that Flip seems to have fallen head over heels?
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Funny
It’s just hilarious how business works. One minute he’s on a 10-day contract to just get the foot on the door, and the next minute he’s ‘weighing your options’. I could absolutely see it playing this way, but we’d be willing to give him a little bump over the minimum, right?
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
*’weighing his options’
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know. You are there so you know more
But from the interview snippets I have watched, he seems like the type of guy that has dreamed of playing in the NBA. He may be willing to forego economics to just be in the league. Minimum plus some incentives may entice him. That type of energy amd hunger. doesn’t come along often. I mean the guy got dunked on by LeBrIck and was just smiling as if to say “worse things could happen”.
Don’t jinx it or give him ideas Mike ;)
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I bet he'd take the minimum if you gave him
two years guaranteed, with a third year player option…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Mike has a point
I understand the dream of playing in the NBA, but I also understand financial reality. At 25, or however old he is, he has to maximize his earning potential while he can. It may be prudent to establish himself in Europe during his prime, as opposing to leaving for Europe when he’s exiting it. Tough decision to make, but I’m betting he goes for the dream if the Wiz offer something similar to the two years + Rook floated.
He's been overseas... he chose to be in D League to stay stateside
I think he wants to play in the NBA even if for close to the minimum…
Good point
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t come up to too much more per year than the qualifying offer. If he went for that deal, I’d be thrilled. I’ve assumed he would be gassed into asking something in the Blatche contract territory, and hopefully we could work him down to $5M or so per. I get the feeling that his market may not be what he thinks it is. Who is his agent?
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t come up to too much more per year than the qualifying offer. If he went for that deal, I’d be thrilled. I’ve assumed he would be gassed into asking something in the Blatche contract territory, and hopefully we could work him down to $5M or so per. I get the feeling that his market may not be what he thinks it is. Who is his agent?
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
by Edward TheThird on Apr 2, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Andray
Whatever has got Andray going—-Keep going!!
by CoachPatAnderson on Apr 2, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The end of the season has him going, thats how it goes
the realization that hes abt to have months and months of sleeping in and pigging out on fast food with no work outs has him in great spirits.
The new team dynamic -- competition
For many teams in the league, it is acceptable and maybe preferable for there to be a pecking order — this is the star and go-to guy, these are the starters, these guys get shots, these are the subs, and these are the roles you are all expected to play. That sort of approach allows players to get comfortable — in their roles and status — and allows them to focus on their goals, namely getting deep in the playoffs. In theory.
In recent years the Wizards have had a similar dynamic. Gil, Caron and Jamison were the stars, they got the shots, the $, Gil took the shots in crunch time, Haywood did the grunt work, their roles and jobs as starters were secure (with the exception of the Haywood/Etan years), etc. What we saw was a team that never defended particularly well, and never made much noise in the playoffs.
That dynamic continued into this season. Wall, Gil, Blatche and McGee were quite certain and comfortable in their roles as starters. That certainty seemed a little too comfortable for Blatche and McGee at times — they often were lax and took the kind of risks that players not worried about playing time would take. I would even argue that Wall got a bit too comfortable at times — his defensive intensity sagged in the middle section of the season.
Maybe the cure for all of this, and the cure for changing the Wizards’ culture, is what we are seeing now — everyone competing for minutes. Why not add talent in the draft at whatever positions, and let everyone compete not only in training camp, but throughout the next season? It’s not like the team needs to develop consistency to make a playoff run next year. Nick Young now knows he is fighting for floor time, and if I were Wall, I would be very slightly less comfortable in the notion that I was going to get all the minutes I wanted than before Crawford showed up. Trevor Booker should have Blatche and Rashard Lewis looking over their shoulders a bit. Add a Kanter or Derrick Williams, and Blatche will be fighting for time at PF or C, and McGee might be scared enough to stop playing PG and hit the boards like a man possessed.
You can’t take this sort of approach on most teams due to salary constraints. But with so many Wizards on rookie contracts, you can add a lot of young quality players, and let them duke it out, game after game, practice after practice. I’m thinking that might be a great approach going forward.
by disgrunted on Apr 2, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Mobile, so please accept a written
+1
Fellas, can we get the Rec button on the mobile side.
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I'm on mobile too.
+1
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Apr 2, 2011 3:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Has anyone looked at our remaining schedule?
I’ve been drinking Kool-Aid for sure, but I think 3-4 more wins to end the season could be in our future. Good for morale but bad for draft position.
Follow me on Twitter @WorldWiEdWard
very bad for draft position.
we’re only 1 game “up” on Toronto now.
by PhenomenalSwag on Apr 2, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I say jettison NY. You can't win with a one trick pony. A long range fall away is what you use as an offensive last resort.
Besides Crawford can dominate His man. You have to have a team of overacheivers to win. JC is an athelic overacheivers like some possible draft pick out there.
by Janber on Apr 2, 2011 2:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
AND then how does JC defend?
Right now, he can beat his man and score (albeit inefficiently)…. but he’s also terrible on defense, turns the ball over too much, fouls excessively, can’t shoot the 3, and is undersized for the position. I really, really like his fire and competitiveness; but he has very serious holes in his game that need to be addressed before I anoint him the new starting Shooting Guard, and throw away a perfectly good two way player in Nick Young…. (Young is the antithesis of Crawford.. Young can defend, hit the 3, score with efficiency, doesn’t turn the ball over, and has great size at 6’7")
I guess I fell for it again… a poster that simply puts up the same-old “one trick” arguments against Young…. and I just cannot help but respond….
But it really bugs me when people only look at the OFFENSIVE side of the court… Like defense doesn’t matter, or doesn’t count when evaluating a player.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 2, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
The way I see it...
JC is a better passer and ball handler than Nick Young.
Nick Young is a better, well…everything else. Especially since he has improved his defense this year, which has been non-existent in the past.
They both dunked on Lebron so I like both, but a lot of people are getting hyped up about JC so much (which I don’t blame them because he has been BALLIN as of late), that they tend to forget how good NY is and how well he also complements Wall.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
by Krobify on Apr 2, 2011 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I must disagree with some of your critique of Crawford
He can shoot the 3 and he has been for the last few games. His defense is not terrible, its vastly improved lately like every other part of his game. He may turn the ball over, but he also creates turnovers. Young does turn the ball over. He threw a bad pass in the last game he was in. He does get stripped of the ball when he is dribbling.
But the fact is, Crawford has played 20 games in the NBA. He starts at the 1 for the 1st time in his NBA life and has a triple double. I don’t ever remember Young grabbing 10 boards in a game. Crawford is the better assist guy. He is the better rebounder. He is better than Young at creating space between him and his defender when shooting the ball. He is better than Young at getting to the basket. He creates more turnovers than Young. He makes no look passes. He made a between the legs pass last night that led to a McGee jam. He drilled an Arenas 3 from the hinterlands the team needed. He is a rookie. Who would know? If you write that Young was this good in his 1st year, no one will believe you.
There is a striking difference between Crawford 20 games ago and this Crawford. The more he plays, the better he gets and he isn’t doing it slowly. He has to be out there to improve and he will be out there. I don’t see Young out there. In fact, the last time Young played he was moved to the 3 so Crawford could play the 2. Move over rover was the message. If Young stays, I expect to see a lot of that line up. Its full circle as the team is back to Young playing the 3.
I also noticed that Young was fairly atrocious during his last 2 games. He is the one that looks like he does fit in. Crawford was even deferring to Young by passing the ball to Young. I think Young looks like the player that is in trouble at the moment.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
HE'S HURT
C’mon. He is literally dragging his leg behind him. It would be really nice that instead of comparing apples to oranges, we wait until Young is healthy and see which is the better fit with Wall
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know how hurt Young is
but I am pretty sure I know who the Wiz starting 2 will be. 20 games ago, I thought Crawford had a ways to go. I did not know that ways would be 20 games. I was measuring it in seasons. I have liked Young from the 1st time I watched him play and I always considered Young unfairly assailed by posters. He can’t dribble or pass or play d, I always considered that bs. The Wiz can force Crawford to the bench next season and I think that would be a mistake. On the other hand, I can’t see Young going back to the bench. So I see Young back to the 3.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He's hurt enough to have missed 8 of the last 10 games...
but game enough to gut it out for 35 and 32 minutes in the games he did play… trying to give something to his team , with so many injuries….
And what does that get him? Instead of admiration for taking one for the team…. he gets CALLED OUT for his “fairly atrocious….. last 2 games.”
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I was not calling him out
I was describing his play. If he was that hurt then I don’t know why he was even in there. I don’t know what he needs to gut out right now. The team isn’t in a play off race. Its the end of the season.
Irregardless, In my opinion this team has already made up its mind about who the 2 player is. its in Saunders language.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They brought him back
because he tried to give it a go and he has been their go to scorer all year. Also, the team still wants to try and win every game to set a good precedent.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Young scores 42
and Saunders mentions he took some bad shots. Nice compliment. JC is gunning shots from all over the place and Saunders calls it moxie. I think there was a built in bias already. I think it was prescient. I don’t think there will be fair competition because I think Saunders already knows who the starting 2 is.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Or its different motivation
I think you are reading WAY too much into Saunders statement. Notice how Flip pushes JaVale and Young but backs off of Blatche? A lot of it probably has to do with player personality. Also, the exact quote was that Young took some bad shots in that game because he wore down. When Saunders does call out Young, he has done so in the context of the entire team playing “playstation” basketball.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if I am reading too much in to it.
These are things I like to find out. I suppose I wondering if they move Young to the 3. I just don’t know how the team can re-sign Young and expect Crawford to come off the bench for the next 3 seasons. I just don’t see that happening and I don’t think it will happen that way.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
we need at least three good guards on this team anyways. resigning young should not be that expensive- MLE or better.
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not against re-signing Young
I’m beginning to come around to the notion that Crawford was brought to be Walls back court mate. They are both rookies and both create offense. I think the Wiz are thinking long term about this. I can see how those 2 will run the whole show out there and I think thats the plan.
Young is getting kind of old for this team. The Wiz will have their own Logans run. All players who turn 25 become trade bait. Or, as the Japanese say, half off after Christmas. All women who turn 26 and are not married are half off, is the meaning. The same can be said of Wiz players if they are not traded by 26. 21 is the new 27.
by hambonejackson on Apr 3, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but everyone else does know how hurt Young is
Its the reason they shut him down and he currently isn’t playing. For a guy whose game is predicated on his jumper, a leg injury is a pretty big deal.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I CANNOT believe I am defending Nick Young
against detractors
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
by Sean Fagan on Apr 2, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously we have switched brains
Plus, you still owe me a drink for predicting playoffs last year. = )
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I am not a detractor
How did I suddenly become a detractor? I was one of the posters defending Young against the detractors. Just because I believe that Crawford is on his way to being the starting 2 does not make me a Nick Young detractor. So people who thought Young should start over Arenas, people like me, would make me an Arenas detractor. So if I think Crawford will start over Young, now I am Young detractor.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
From defender to detractor
If you are not with us you are against us. No middle ground in cold and cruel world of BF commentary.
by hambonejackson on Apr 2, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Bone - you can any opinion you want
I’m not asking you agree with either Rook or myself. We were just pointing out the fact that Young was hurt in the two previous games that in which “you noticed Young was fairly atrocious.” You also stated that it “would believe it would be a hallucination to believe otherwise” in regards to the Crawford starting over Young. Which kinda negates other peoples opinions.
Now back to selling Kanter
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
See. It isn't that bad.
The role reversals in this thread are like a law school class :)
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 6:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On target Rook.
Crawford is currently dominated by PGs and SGs. He will improve. He is a legitimate possibility to start if NY leaves and maybe if he doesn’t. But we need 360 evals on both. Neither is complete yet. I will admit that I think it is more likely that JC will eventually get there due to his vision which I don’t think NY can gain at this point.
I also wouldn’t underestimate Crawford’s three pointer. He may not be the best pct but like Durant his pct may not illustrate how he hits them in the clutch or 4th. He has hit an awful lot of big threes in a short period.
I refuse to fall into this trap. We have a glass 3/4 full situation. Why are we trying to turn it into a controversy. (not directed at you Rook)
By the way everyone, if NY wants to come off the bench and not get exactly market value, why wouldn’t he do it with the Lakers at home with Kobe reaching the end of his career?
by DavidDunn on Apr 2, 2011 5:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you have to be a solid defender in this league if u r going to start for a good team that can go somewhere. doesnt sound like crawford is there yet…maybe that changes! but it seems that if young can defend well consistently and hit the open jumper. JW and hopefully a big that will pass out of the double team (kanter)…young will get plenty of opps to shine. n until crawford learns to defend, then he should be a great player to run the offense and give rest to JW/NY
ernie grunfeld discounts defense. which is one big reason i dont like him or think he will ever put together a championship team
by les boulez bomber on Apr 2, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
that sounds like an old cheech and chong routine...
depression, repression eets all the same thing
Is it really impossible to have a single day truce in this place?
JC looks good. Young has looked exponentially better this season than in years past. Jeffers has been phenomonal for a D League pick up. JVM is easily playing the best ball of his career. Dray might be getting healthy and it’s possible that it really was injuries that screwed his year. It may even be possible that Flip and Ernie aren’t totally incompetent. We just won without Wall in the building, even if it was Cleveland. Everybody just take a breath and enjoy for a few hours. We can go back to arguing about Kanter over JVM/Dray and the necessity, or lack thereof, of Nick Young tomorrow. Deal?
by imperialme on Apr 2, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Well I was hoping for that
but the fires must be stoked.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
It's amazing how many people are all of a sudden on the "F*** Nick Young" bandwagon.
I guess he just has to average another couple of 20 ppg months next season to get us back on there.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
On the WaPo boards
calling for Wall to be traded (or beheaded). Don’t you know that he passes to everyone except Nick?
Stop! hindering; N Y. Just because Nick is not a pet bull. Nick Young move’s is Like lighting. Young move with out warning. SCORER
no - just channeling mae jude
a recent sampling from her twitter feed
what's mae's twitter?? haha
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
I can't belive all this Nick Young hate
I guess everybody’s forgetting how great Young was playing before he got injured and Crawford took the spotlight.
IMO, Young is a better fit with Wall because he can play within the system as a catch-and-shoot player and is our best 3-point shooter. And he plays good defense. Right now, Crawford is good, but I don’t think he’s as good with Wall as Young is because he’s ball-dominant and he isn’t a great 3-point shooter.
But my question is, why does it have to be one or the other. Why can’t we just keep both? Just because Young’s contract is expiring, it seems like some people don’t want us to resign him just because we have Crawford now. WHY? Isn’t it good to have as much talent as you can get? Young and Crawford both have different styles and each of their traits benefit us in different ways.
And Young isn’t that well rounded, he’s mainly a scorer, and don’t we need people like that. Heck, every team needs players like that. Especially us because we’re limited on scorers and perimeter shooters. I bet the Bulls would be happy to have Young as their starting SG, since a lot of fans can’t appreciate him for what he is. Just because he’s not that versatile isn’t necessarily a bad thing because many guards make a living in the NBA just by scoring. And he’s still pretty young, so he still has time to improve on his game and become more well rounded.
And while people debate which one of them will be better in the future, I don’t really care because either way, our guard rotation is set for the future. I still think that NY should start and that Crawford should be the 3rd guard off the bench, we have a young backcourt that has a lot of potential.
by iNFaMOUS SwaGG on Apr 2, 2011 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
My thoughts on JC
JC is a playmaker, the best on the team at driving and dishing, he has good court vision and he isn’t afraid to shoot big shots. He plays with fire, the type of intensity that can get teammates like Blatche pumped up. NY, on the other hand, is one of the most improved players in the league, specially defensively and shots off screens. Problem is he over dribbles, settles for kobe shots and isn’t worth overpaying. Mcgee is playing superb, still makes boneheaded plays but I think he is getting it. There’s no denying the excellent on court chemistry JC and Mcgee have!
Yeah, umm I think Wall is the best at driving and dishing.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
No, John Wall has it definitely.
Are you seriously in favor of Crawford being better at driving and dishing than Wall?!?
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Developing...
The BGs have allowed the Raptors to close within one game of the Wizards vaunted 3rd best lottery odds. I could not have conceived the Wizards winning 3 more games than any other team over the final ten games, but the Raptors may just well end up being that team. Best wishes to Demar Derozan on a successful final seven games!
I took a nap earlier and had a dream that I saw John Wall throwing up alley-oops to Perry Jones.
Now thinking about how I forgot about Perry Jones and how athletic he is.
I know, I’m off-topic.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
talk about off topic
Let’s bring CBA All Star Peter John Ramos back……. While were at it lets get Dave Neal and Eric Hayes so we have 3 point threats
JC is too small to be a long-term starting SG
Not sure why nobody is stating the obvious. He is 6’3 w/o shoes and slight. He is a combo guard with a game made for a 6th man role.
Perfect example....
Puts up huge offensive numbers – but cannot play defense AT ALL.
I fail to see why we would want a one-way player starting next to John Wall…. JC, if he is to compete for the starting SG position MUST play better defense….
Scoring is great – except when you allow your opponent to score just as much or more than you do…..
At 6’3" JC will be at a distinct size disadvantage against 85% of the other starting Shooting Guards in the League who are 6’5" or bigger…. So he better get stronger, and start using his quicks and feet to play better defense – otherwise he’ll never be anything more than a bench scorer.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Apr 3, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
...and Wade is just 1 inch taller at 6'4
Height is a minimal aspect when ur so talented at the position. He brings alot of intangible Nick Young does not bring. Crawford is passionate and Nick is soft and complacent on court. His ceiling is also just higher.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
Wade is actually 6'4.75"
That was the height that he was measured as in the Draft Combine. And he has a 6’10.75" wingspan, so he plays bigger than his height.
by iNFaMOUS SwaGG on Apr 3, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Rook brought up defense. Crawford plays D. I know what I see. I'm not stupid I watch all these games. Crawford brings more dfense and overall intensity when u compared to Nick.
Nick is soft. He scores. He is a bench player. Crawford brings enough intangibles to start at our 2 spot. He brings the intensity and grunt that we are building towards.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are judging defense based on
Looks as opposed to results. Read the post on Walt Frazier who said he intentionally did not try to look intense and lull his opponents to spell. Different people play different ways and looks can be deceiving.
Nick is a better one on one cover guy and can disrupt shots. Crawford has better anticipation but can get taken to the hole and can’t guard a bigger guard down low.
They both have pluses and minuses. But stat wise and results wise Nick is a better defender currently. May not always be the case, but it is now.
by DavidDunn on Apr 3, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What are JC's combine measurements?
by DavidDunn on Apr 3, 2011 4:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
6’ 4.5" in shoes. 198 pounds, 6’7" Wingspan, 8’ 5" reach
31.5" standing jump
34.5" max vertical
3.37 sprint
11.03 agility
(Note: Nick Young was better in EVERY category)….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
……………………. Crawford …………… Wade…………… Joe Johnson ……….. NY
w/o shoes …………… 6’3" …………… 6’ 3.75" …………… 6’ 6.75 …………… 6’ 5"
wingspan …………… 6’ 7" …………… 6’ 10.75 …………… 6’ 9" …………… …..7’ 0"
standing reach ……. 8’ 5" …………… 8’ 6" ……………… 8’ 9" …………… ….8’ 4.5"
max vert ………………34.5 …………… 35 …………… …… 36.5 …………… ….40.5
by MR on Apr 3, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
how does ny have the lowest standing reach when he has a 7 foot wingspan and the second tallest?
by les boulez bomber on Apr 4, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Wide chest, low shoulder sockets
obviously…
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 4, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Tiny fingers? Had to waste vertical inches reaching around the hair?
by MR on Apr 4, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
tiny fingers may be more important than we think
he doesn’t seem to be able to palm the ball based on his drives and dunking style. His lack of hand strength is one of the key factors impacting his deficiencies.
Obviously, not the issue with reach, but it is the type of small thing we shouldn’t forget.
Wade is 6'3.75
minor difference but he is only 1 inch, actually less, taller than Crawford.
Crawford is very similar in size to OJ Mayo. He doesn’t have Mayo’s vertical, but he does have a good one. Mayo has a 41 inch vertical.
Yeah dude I honestly think ppl scrutinize size too much.
Armchair GMs usually measure performance by literal physical measurements..just not the way it works. There is more that goes into a player’s game than that. Can’t wait to see him play @ 6. Where is Nick anyway? Is he injured?
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Eye ball test
I just thought he looked small in person to be starting shooting guard. I was at the Cavs game.
But looking at his measurements he is just as big as some of the smaller 2-guards, like Mayo and Ellis.
I still think he is a classic combo guard, which is not a knock. We’d still need a bigger 2-guard like Nick. Wall, Crawford, and Nick make up a promising back court.
we need from that spot with JW running the show at a minimum: great shooter, lock down defender, doesnt turn the ball over, makes the right pass when he doesnt have a shot. i think NY is ahead at the moment in filling that role. creating your own shot would be a bonus
by les boulez bomber on Apr 4, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I know I've seen Nick
Go toe to to with Kobe and LeBron and hold his own. Wake me up when Crawford manages that. Nick’s the starter until it happens.
by yop32 on Apr 3, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Did you not see the heat game?
Crawford did not back down when Lebron was trying to intimidate him.
by MR on Apr 3, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He also basically shut down wade and R Allen
Earlier this year. I know people will point to Wades game on Miami where they went toe to toe, but a close review of that game will show large parts of Wades outburst in the 2nd and 4th were with Nick out of the game.
On the other side, JC did have a big offensive game against Miami.
by DavidDunn on Apr 3, 2011 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just got back in. I think Crawford has what it takes to hold is own, if not better, against those guys.
He’s gonna go against Ray Allen this friday and next monday. Joe Johnson this Saturday. and to a lesser extent stuckey/gordon sometime this week. I’m excited to see him at and over the level of Nick’s defense. with better results.
Remembers guys…he’s a rookie. Nick might sign elsewhere. Crawford is that dude. I’d def invest in him. Coach loves him too. Just watch the post game conference.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as I look forward to Crawford's future
I agree with this statement. Nick Young has done nothing to lose the job at this point.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
Stress fractures are inevitable when you kick as much ass as Trevor Booker does.
by returnofswagger on Apr 3, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Before season end. Crawford will do alot to take it. Young doesn't have to do nothing. Just sit back and smile like he always does.
by Delonte Mckinley on Apr 3, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Whats wrong with having both???
Young just fits better next to Wall but there is a good 30 minutes behind the 2. Plus, once in a while NY can shift to the 3. JC is the ideal player coming off the bench.
by Meraj Chowdhury on Apr 3, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
flip is smarter than that. if he does that, he will lose ny mentally. he doesnt have to commit to crawford- jc is a rookie. so i dont think he will…certainly until his defense and shooting improve and he is clearly outperforming…this is the nba…where u have to beat the champs to come out on top…in this case, jc will have to demonstrably outplay to be crowned the winner…at least for next season
by les boulez bomber on Apr 4, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
i thin Nick is the starter, easily, for the time being.
With that being said, I think I’d question anyone who calls Jordan an “off the bench guy”. It’s quite clear he’s not that type of player, at least, it seems that way.
Nick fits in much better with wall right now. For the time being, it would be ideal for nick to start, with jordan coming off the bench as he continues to develop certain aspects of his game.
But you’re kidding yourself if you think he’ll remain a bench player. As great as nick is on both offense and defense (a good defender), Jordan is going to surpass him at some point, and there’s no chance in hell another team doesn’t throw money his way down the road that we’d have to match.
There’s also no chance in hell he’ll forever remain “ok” with coming off the bench. Not in my mind. Not with how gifted he is. If he isn’t a superstar in the starting lineup with us down the road, he will be on some other team.
For now though? Definitely Nick as the starter.
Another thought:
We’re all worried about drafting a player to give us that piece to push us in the right direction, but I did a lot of thinking today and came to the conclusion that we have some great players on this roster.
JaVale: I think JaVale, as dumb as he’s been this year with his up and down play, is FINALLY starting to get it. He’s playing simple ball but also showing post moves that I NEVER thought he’d have. His post game is actually developing, and it’s exciting to watch him make baskets off of legitimately GOOD moves, instead of throwing up “javale shots” and praying they fall. If he just continues to work on his moves and spends time in the wieght room this summer, he could come back next season as a bigger, stronger, much improved JaVale. And that’s a JaVale that could, in all seriousnes, dominate both sides of the floor.
Dray- this guy is super talented. The things he does around the rim are amazing at times, his sneaky up and unders, baseline spins and baby hooks. His defense is fantastic when he’s actually focused and his passing ability is phenomenal for someone his size. He has all these tools but his main problem, in my opinion, is that he’s just so out of shape.
SERIOUSLY. It’s not even lack of muscle; I don’t care if he’s ripped, the guy is big and strong and can already bang downlow. It’s his conditioning that needs tremendous work this offseason. If he shows up on game one of next season in extremely good shape….if we have a very VERY physically fit dray going into game one….the guy can be a multiple time allstar. He just needs to get in shape.
Everyone else is pretty straight forward. Nick needs to get a little tougher, book needs that jumper, as does john. Jordan just needs to progress his game.
When it comes down to it, even if we hypothetically drafted NO ONE in this draft, this team could be exponentially better, and even make a run at the playoffs next year if two guys, dray and javale, finally break the mold.
I’m actually starting to feel pretty confident in JaVale. I think next year he could take the league by storm. It all depends on if he finishes this season out strong and does the right things in the off season.
by DCeee on Apr 3, 2011 4:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
We have more pieces than I would have ever imagined
4 months ago…
As I said upthread….we have four people that can legitimately go for 30 any night.
And you are right about JC having the ability to play himself off the bench in short order. That is a good think. It will keep Nick focused. On the other hand, Nick could potentially not want that competition but I don’t think that is him (he has always been fine with not being “the man”, see Farmar and Mayo). Regardless, JC would be great in the Manu role where he only a sixth man in name, and Flip can pull the levers based on matchups and who is on each night. And eventually, when the time is right he would become a starter.
There are a lot of teams that are going to envy us at the end of the season. Let’s not be our own worse enemy.
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