A comprehensive list of alternatives to Flip Saunders next season
by Mike Prada on Mar 9, 2011 2:04 PM EST
in Coaching
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As the Wizards continue to be non-competitive in many games, with many of their players not developing as quickly as we would like, the inevitable calls to fire coach Flip Saunders and Ernie Grunfeld will surely only grow stronger. I'm sympathetic to both men for the tough jobs they have, and I acknowledge several successes they've had recently (Saunders with Nick Young's development, Grunfeld for his clever use of Kirk Hinrich as a trade asset) but I also acknowledge that a true rebuild may need new voices in the authority positions.
But if we're going to call for those men to be fired (and I'm not really making a value judgement one way or the other here ... yet), we also need to consider who might replace them. Below the jump, a comprehensive list of possible coaching replacements that we'll continue to populate as the season goes on. I'll open up the GM thread tomorrow.
To be clear, I have no clue whether these men are actually available, but I do think they are people the Wizards should consider internally (some for longer than others, of course) if they do decide to make a change.
Retread Category
Mike Woodson: Former Atlanta Hawks coach. Fired after last year's playoffs when the Hawks disappointed once again. Career 206-286 record, but had improved the team's record six years running. Known for his simple approach, his overly simplistic isolation sets and his lack of eyebrows. Formerly a long-time assistant under Larry Brown.
Mike Brown: Former Cleveland Cavaliers coach. Fired after the Cavaliers didn't win the title last year. Career 272-138 record, though that was surely aided by having LeBron James on his team. Known for having excellent defensive teams, correspondingly inept offensive sets and looking like Mr. Potato Head. Formerly under the San Antonio Spurs coaching tree.
Lawrence Frank: Former New Jersey Nets coach. Fired in 2009 after his team got off to a historically bad start. Career 225-241 record. Known for outstanding preparation and ability to tinker at a team's style, though like most coaches, his message got stale after a while. Currently the defensive guru for the Boston Celtics. Formerly a guy who came out of nowhere.
Maurice Cheeks: Former Philadelphia 76ers coach. Fired in 2008 after his teams stagnated. Career 284-286 record. Known for his simple messages and general lack of complexity. Currently the lead assistant for Scott Brooks and the Oklahoma City Thunder. Formerly the NBA's premier thief.
Eddie Jordan: Just kidding.
Sam Mitchell: Former Toronto Raptors coach. Fired in 2008 when his team got off to a horrendous start, and also because he didn't play Andrea Bargnani. Career 156-189 record. Won Coach of the Year in 2006/07 because his team became much more talented. Known for being a good defensive mind and for being Kevin Garnett's best friend, but also for being overly traditional, sticking with unproductive players and hesitating to adjust his gameplan. Currently an assistant coach for Avery Johnson in New Jersey.
Jim O'Brien: Former Indiana Pacers, Philadelphia 76ers and Boston Celtics' coach. Fired this season because all the youngsters on the Pacers stagnated. Team immediately improved after he left. Career 303-327 record. Known for being a good defensive coach that fosters a disorganized, fire-threes-at-all-cost offensive style in return. Also known for taking shots at his youngsters publicly for no reason.
Dwayne Casey: Former Minnesota Timberwolves coach. Fired in 2006/07 because his owner and general manager had ridiculously unreasonable expectations. Career 53-69 record. Was replaced by current Wizards assistant Randy Wittman, who compiled a 38-105 record thereafter. Known for being a good player development coach that won't do anything crazy, but is still pretty steady. Currently a Dallas Mavericks assistant.
Terry Porter: Former Phoenix Suns and Milwaukee Bucks coach. Was fired midway through his first season in 2007/08 because his players didn't like the stylistic changes he proposed. Career 99-116 record. Known for preaching a defensive mindset, but not having teams that follow it.
Michael Curry: Former Detroit Pistons coach. Fired in 2008/09 after a tough first season following Flip Saunders. Entered into a tough situation, with the Allen Iverson trade and the general decline of the team, but didn't do himself any favors. Currently a Philadelphia 76ers assistant with Doug Collins.
Bill Cartwright: Former Chicago Bulls coach. Fired in 2003 for his team's general lack of development. Was handed a roster of young knuckleheads and couldn't handle it. Career 51-100 record. Known for being a smart man that nevertheless couldn't inspire effort out of his players. Currently a Phoenix Suns assistant, where he's been reborn as an excellent player development person.
Coaches, Assistants Category
Mike Budenholzer: My top choice if the Wizards go the "longtime assistant" route. Longtime San Antonio Spurs assistant who is currently in his 16th year with the organization (14 as an assistant). Extremely innovative and the man who does a lot of the grunt work that makes the organization so successful. Hired at the same time as R.C. Buford in 1994. Served as an advance scout on the Olympic team in 2004, and began as a video coordinator. Former D3 star at Pomona-Pitzer (always a leg up for me because I went a D3 school).
Ron Adams: Another strong choice. Longtime defensive guru who has become Tom Thibodeau's defensive man in Chicago. Served two years in Oklahoma City before that, where he was responsible for their defensive turnaround last season. His absence helps explain their subsequent drop-off this season. Been an NBA assistant since 1992, serving with the 76ers, Spurs, Blazers, Bucks, Bulls and Thunder before going back to Chicago this season. Former Fresno State head coach in the late 1980s.
Lester Conner: Thirteen-year assistant coach, currently with the Atlanta Hawks. Onetime NBA player who went straight from the game to the bench. Started in 1998 as an assistant to Rick Pitino in Boston, and has also been with the Pacers and Bucks. Was also a scout for the Miami Heat.
Tim Grgurich: George Karl's longtime assistant coach throughout his career in Seattle, Milwaukee and Denver. His departure was one of the first signs of organizational upheaval in Denver. Currently a consultant with the Mavericks. Once was the highest-paid assistant in basketball.
Elston Turner: Current Houston Rockets assistant. Former Sacramento Kings assistant with Rick Adelman. Began his coaching career in Portland and in the CBA. Former NBA guard who played for several teams in the 1980s. Known for his player development skills.
John Lucas: Currently an assistant with the Clippers. Known in NBA circles for his workouts with troubled players looking to earn their spot back in the league. Former Maryland star that battled substance abuse during his NBA career and is now clean. Very clearly has the respect of players.
Frank Hamblen/Brian Shaw: Two Lakers assistants likely to stick around once Phil Jackson retires. A shame, because Shaw is definitely head coaching material.
Dave Joerger: Current Memphis Grizzlies assistant. Former Dakota Wizards coach who is one of the most successful minor league coaches in the world. Has five minor-league titles with Dakota, three in the International Basketball Association, one in the NBADL and one in the CBA. Has more minor league titles than noted minor-league coaches Phil Jackson, Flip Saunders, Eric Mussleman and George Karl combined.
Bob McAdoo: Current Miami Heat assistant serving in his 16th year. Former NBA great who was one of the best players in the 1970s. Primarily a big man coach, but also consults as a shooting coach.
Michael Malone: Current New Orleans assistant after being a Cavaliers assistant for five years. Also served as a Knicks assistant and a college assistant. Known for doing more work than typical assistants because of the way Mike Brown delegated responsibility.
Phil Weber: Current New York Knicks assistant. Was a Phoenix Suns assistant for Mike D'Antoni. Known for his player development work and his relentlessly positive attitude, as chronicles in Seven Seconds or Less.
Brendan Malone: NBA lifer. Former lead assistant for Chuck Daly in Detroit, and has also been a head coach on several occasions. Currnetly the lead assistant for the Orlando Magic. Known for his defensive accumen.
Bill Laimbeer: Former Bad Boy himself. Currently an assistant for the Timberwolves. Was previously one of the most successful WNBA coaches of all time with the Detroit Shock. A bit controversial based on his NBA past, which he believes has hurt his coaching opportunities.
Sam Cassell: Sorry folks, he has two years of NBA experience as a coach. Love Sam, but he's not ready yet. Definitely someone to keep around as an assistant, though.
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this is probably not the year for a change. Great list regardless.
I am a proponent of Mike Brown because he has HC experience and brings a championship defense. everyone says it was just LeBron. i’ve always countered that their defense won more games. Miami could use it right about now. Without championship defense everything else is moot. Budenholzer fits that mold, but without prior experience.
either one would be a welcome addition along with Gm candidate Dennis Lindsey, also of the spurs organization.
Still, we’re a year away. too much owed to Flip and not quite done adding pieces yet IMO.
I like Brown..
as an assistant coach. Dude really struggles with in game adjustments and is awful at coaching O. Let him concentrate on D like he’s good at and get a better rounded HC. He’s a top flight assistant and nothing more IMO.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 9, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
you know, i was excited
when we first hired Flip. Unfortunately he seems to not be the guy for the long-run—meaning his skills seem better suited to talented, veteran teams that are going deep in the playoffs. that is our long-run/term vision. but he doesn’t seem to be the guy to get us there.
i’m not a fan of hiring any one-time coach that has a losing/.500 record. there’s a reason none of the one-time coaches on your list aren’t coaching right now. i’d rather go for a seasoned assistant who is ready to do their own thing with a young team, or even get someone from out of left field. i remember reading a great article on nolan richardson that was published in SLAM magazine about 5 years ago. he’s improved every team he’s coached, at every level. or maybe someone from overseas, sort of like D’antoni, but who actually preaches defense, too. i guess i don’t want a stale retread of a coach who was not good enough to ever have a winning record to begin with.
then again, i hear don nelson is available…
lastly, a large part of this will depend on if EG is around or not, and what Ted thinks/feels about Flip. we are going to have another top pick and will be a young team next year—i really want a coach that can bring development to that scenario. i’m not feeling it from flip/eg and i don’t see how ted could be feeling it, either. but that’s why he’s the owner.
also
are we assuming Sloan is officially retired? talk about someone who would help us develop a pick and roll offense and a defensive identity.
Sloan would rip this team apart with his teeth
We don’t need someone who is at the tail end of their career. We need someone relatively young and proven who can grow with this team. Mike Brown and Lawrence Frank would be near the top of my list. I also don’t know enough about the long time assistants but would love for us to go that route.
by PhenomenalSwag on Mar 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
everyone says Flip needs a "vet" team
What does that mean? He’s a good coach when he has seasoned, all-star level talent, who have won a championship together and can basically coach themselves? That’s not such a flattering thing to say about Flip, but it seems to be the constant refrain as to why it’s not his responsibility this team performs so poorly.
there are a million shades of gray
between this roster and the one you described (Detroit).
That’s not removing responsibility. He won with a mix in Minnesota.
Mix that included a top50 all-time nba player
Who happens to be a fiery, natural born leader that lives defense.
I’m not making a judgment about Flip, but he;s the head coach and therefore deserves as much scrutiny as the players
i'd put kg at
top 25 all time, and at the least a top 10 all time power forward.
So when a team wins under Saunders
it’s the players. When a team loses under Saunders it’s the……?
by hambonejackson on Mar 9, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think he should be fired
But firing him wouldnt hurt anything other than Ted’s pocketbook
for me it means
the type of players on a team in part will dictate what sort of coach needs to be coaching/managing them. a veteran, blue collar team that is confident and plays D probably needs a coach more in flip’s mold—someone who is smart about the game of bball, but not in your face with passion and intensity. in minny, he had KG at the peak of his game (probably the best player of his generation during his peak), which brought its own rewards. i think it IS his responsibility our team is so terrible—part of it is because i think flip’s style and knowledge is not suited for the reality of our team. hence, i’m on board with trying someone new, but not someone with a losing record who will most likely be fired in a few seasons and we’re still at square one.
by Todd L on Mar 9, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why is this so hard to understand?
Do you think Phil Jackson would do a good job here? I sure as hell don’t. Do you think Monty Williams or Scott Brooks would be an awesome coach for the Spurs or Lakers? Coaches have to fit their teams. I think the value put on coaching is overated, but what you see on the court with this team are players not motivated and not playing to their strengths. Hence the need for a coach who motivates, IMO.
by baltimorebullets80 on Mar 10, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think Nolan Richardson is a great Idea.
He runs a Fast Break offense and a smothering defense. He fosters a “Us against the world” Team spirit. Something the Wizards need is more team spirit.
by Janber on Mar 9, 2011 7:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He appears happy with the WNBA's Tulsa Shock, at least for now
Tulsa is his hometown, and he appears committed to building their team toward their fourth WNBA championship after last year. The Detroit Shock moved to Tulsa last year after Karen Davidson sold the team.
He’s also almost 70 years old too so I couldn’t see him with us longer than a couple years anyway.
I do like his system though, so who knows.
I vote Laimbeer
This team needs an attitude makeover
No retreads please.
Although it would be funny to see Jordan forced to play Young and Blatche this time around because they are now vets on the team.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk - Tuco
by ravoriobulleterpitals on Mar 9, 2011 3:08 PM EST reply actions
I agree with this...
Try to find our own version of Thibodeau… Budenholzer and Adams do leap out…
IF it MUST be a retread, then I would say try to lure Jeff Van Gundy out of the broadcast booth.
Whoever inherits the hot seat (assuming Ted decides not to continue punishing Flip with this unbelievably thankless job… I fear it will not get better before I am in my eighth decade… 3 years to go) had better have infinite patience, an iron stomach and a high threshold of pain. These same characteristics, of course, also apply to the remaining 200 or so fans who insist upon suffering with this team as I have for more than 40 years.
Literally laughed out loud in a silent library
at the Eddie Jordan line. Humor and analysis in one big bundle… gotta love it.
Way to embarrass.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
And this post comes out just when I was coming around on Flip too...
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on Mar 9, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hah, glad it made you laugh
I’m still not sure whether Flip deserves to go myself – just figured we’d have this “pool of alternatives” there so conversations don’t stagnate once we get to the “well, if not Flip, then who?” stage. The same goes for EG.
It is neccessary for both the fire him crowd, and keep him around crowd
But I am beginning to feel like Flip has as much to offer young players as anyone. And lets say we fire Flip bring in an unsuccessful project coach, and then end up with 3 or 4 coaches in four years. Not the model of stability to keep Wall around or bring another Superstar here.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on Mar 9, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
i agree
in the sense that this is a super important part of the puzzle that will shape the next 10 years of the franchise. no easy answer out there—so let flip ride one more year and see if there’s improvement from this year? give him 1.5 seasons with a set roster and see what he can do? but if he’s running the same offensive sets from 10 years ago, it seems the league has passed him by…?
My dream is a Van Gundy
Barring that, I wouldn’t mind Mike Brown, would love Ron Adams, and am intrigued by Grgurich. I just want someone who will make these guys defend and hopefully not burn out in three years a la Skiles or Larry Brown.
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
Sounds like a bumper sticker, 'My other coach is a Van Gundy'
Wouldn’t mind Budenholzer at the top with Joerger, Cassell, and Laimbeer as assistants…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Mar 10, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
I still contend that Flip was better suited to coach a veteran team
and that this group of youngsters would have fit better with (cringe) EJ’s less-rigid system. But I’m not a fan of going back to the past, and if we can get at least two more vets in here and the players put in some real work to improve for next season, I think we should keep Flip for the remainder of his contract.
Bill Laimbeer – has all the personal traits the players need to learn (if learning these things is possible) or be drafted to learn. As yoda mentioned, a Van Gundy would be good – they are good coaches. How ’bout John Thompson III – already has coached NBA-ready players.
But I’m not on the fire Flip bandwagon. I’m on the “trade half-asses and draft or trade for better players” bandwagon.
What about Unseld jr?
Poor guy never gets mentioned. One of the Van Gundys. I think Stan van Gundy is running out of steam in Orlando. JVG is probably content staying in the broadcasting booth. The truth is, I don’t think Grunfeld is going to fire his friend Flip. They are building this team together. I think Grunfeld will have to be fired and a new GM brought in 1st. GMs have their fav coaches.
I have no idea who wants to coach this team. Maybe they should start a reality show, “Who wants to coach the Washington Wizards?” Antwan Jamison will be the 1st contestant. How about LeBron James as player coach and minority owner? I am sure his ego can handle it. I’d go with Calipari if they would scrap the one year college rule, then Calipari can legally pay high school graduates to play basketball for him. There is Rook, but then there is Blatche. I don’t think that will work out. In the end, it will have to be someone who can develop Wall, so a Sloan makes sense. I am not sure how much Sloan can take trying to coach this team.
My belief is, unless Saunders plans to retire, he will be coaching this team next season. I have to believe, with all these players coming in, they have to stick to the plan.Otherwise, all those dead chickens will have gone to waste.
I also think Gene Shue should be added to the list
by hambonejackson on Mar 9, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
And Jeff Ruland.
He has higher level coaching duties that Unseld jr. Maybe they should exchange jobs.
That list shows that Flip is probably the best option
No one in the Retread category is better than Flip, in my opinion. So the question becomes, do we roll the dice with an assistant to see if he pans out and is a better option than Flip?
I would answer that question with a “no,” for now. The team is in full rebuild mode, and there are already enough moving parts. Add an unproven coach, and then when you see poor results, will you be able to decide whether it is the players or the coach? If you see great results, will you be able to decide whether it is the players or the coach? With Flip, you at least know what he is all about, he has a proven track record, so when you see the results, Flip’s proven record helps you determine where the problems or successes are coming from.
Agree,
but should he be fired, I’d prefer a new school coach, or a coach who isn’t a retread.
Among the Assistants:
Bill Laimbeer, Ron Adams, and Mike Budenholzer get interviewed among assistants
Among retreads, I’d interview Mike Brown and Mike Woodson. Woodson in particular did an excellent job developing his Hawks team over six years. Brown got the Cavs to play some great team D, though he did lean a bit too much on Bron for offense, though I can’t blame him.
I am also okay with the Wizards hiring a new head coach who has been a head coach in other pro leagues, though not the NBA, which is why I suggested Corey Gaines of the Phoenix Mercury in another post, and I still prefer him slightly over Laimbeer, not to mention he is a former NBA player. I would like Gaines, Laimbeer, Sam Cassell (as a holdover) and another Defensive guru to be the coaching staff of the team if Flip were shown the door.
I agree with this as well...
The thing with us as fans is that one week we’re all mad that Flip isn’t “hammering” simple concepts into the players, then the next week we’re mad at him for yelling at them during a game and hurting their feelings. Besides, what message are we sending to the our young players if we fire Flip? That they can run a coach out of town with poor, undisciplined play? That’s not the culture we want to build.
We should be patient with Flip and see where we’re at in another year.
What message is sent to players by not firing Flip after consecutive 55+ loss seasons?
Don’t worry about accountability, just keep cashing your paycheck?
Just devil’s advocating…
I think it says that they better start listening to him because he's not going anywhere.
Kind of the Utah Jazz approach…until recently at least.
Coach Patches O'Houlihan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ja7dX6BP4
7-time ADBAA all-star.
I wouldn't consider anyone in that head coach list
Seriously, Eddie Jordan looked like the best among them. I’m really missing Eddie these days.
The assistants are more enticing, but frankly, the Wizards had their chance to woo Tom Thibodeau. I don’t know that they even pursued him. If they didn’t, then all this losing is just karma – karma for idiots.
Wah? They hired Thibodeau!!!
What are you going on about, they didn’t pursue him? What I want to know though is why didn’t EG just fire EJ and have Thibodeau be the head coach? That whole sequence mystifies me.
Although I wonder if EJ didn’t explain to Tim the defensive deficiencies of the team at the time and Tim just got the hell out of dodge.
Oops, post got et by the internet.
Why do you say they didn’t pursue Thibodeau? They hired him, didn’t he?
I am kind of confused by that whole bizaare sequence though. Why didn’t EG just fire EJ and replace him with Thibs? The whole thing reeks of “ownership intervention.”
Although perhaps EJ calmly and rationally described the defensive capabilities of the squad and Thibs got the hell out of dodge.
They had Thibodeau as an assistant briefly under Eddie Jordan
But I’m not aware that they made any offer to him when they were in the market for a head coach after Tapscott was axed, which was some time later. Thibodeau was an assistant with the Celtics at that time.
From what I recall,
the reason Thiboeau didn’t stick around was because he didn’t want to be considered the ‘coach in waiting’.
As the story goes, he got wind of the fact that EJ was on the hotseat sometime in between when he took the job with the wiz and when he backed out of the job with the wiz.
my recollection
Was that Ernie hired him without regard to Eddie. Big Ern offered him the job and salary terms to be lead assistant. Eddie balked at moving his buddy down a chair. He also balked at Thibs having a longer contract than any of the other assistants. Meetings were held. It got weird and thibs bounced as opposed to get involved at all.
If Ernie backed Thibodeau, then maybe they did may a play for him when Tapscott left
I just never heard anything about it.
The well might have been poisoned for one or both sides after the aborted hire earlier as well
But in the end I don’t think Abe would have even looked at an unproven assistant when he was trying to squeeze one last playoff run in before he passed. Not to mention that Thibs is reportedly not the kindof guy that kills it in the interviews. I think they were just looking for a veteran guy to coach a veteran squad.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 11, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Michael Cooper
He is a defensive minded coach with both NBA and WNBA championships. He will bring respect and as a former point guard himself he will help John Walls growth and development
I think Coop's fully committed to women's basketball now.
he’s the Southern Cal women’s basketball coach and he recently got in a Top 10 recruiting class to try to turn around that program that once boasted Cheryl Miller, Cynthia Cooper, and the McGee twins when they were winning national championships.
If we get a WNBA coach here (Zierden doesn’t count – he coached Minnesota), we know at least that JaVale will not disrespect their game.
Dan Snyder just called with his list
Wes Unseld Sr.
Michael Adams
Ed Tapscott
Tim Legler
Ledell Eckles
Laron Profit
Dick Motta
Then he saw Jeff Ruland in the thread, and said, “That’s it!”
Snyder would hire Lenny Wilkins or Don Nelson
They are 1st and 2nd in career wins. They are proven winners!!!!!
Since he cannot get Red Auerbach...
the Danny would probably go with Larry Brown.
Really happy with Flip
Flip seems to be really focusing on the long term goal of player development.
Playing five rookies at the same time. Leaving Blatche and Wall to get torn apart by Nash and Warrick over and over. Letting JaVale get humiliated by Dwight Howard. Calling for Wall-McGee pick and rolls. Those were player development decisions, not win now decisions.
If Flip had wanted to, I think he could have gotten several more wins out of this team. He willingly sacrificed wins for the cause of player development. In a year or three, that’s going to be good for us. Flip deserves to still be here when that work comes to fruition.
does he have a choice?
other than to focus on development? Rashard and Howard are down. Hinrich is gone. Who’s left?
There are more decisions than just personnel decisions
For example, instead of letting Blatche and Wall get reps against the Nash-run pick and roll, you could double team early to try to get the ball out of Nash’s hands. Instead of asking JaVale to hold strong against Dwight for two or three seconds, you could double team immediately. Etc., etc.
Those types of coaching adjustments clearly would have improved our chances to win games, but from a player development point of view, those challenging experiences are invaluable. You just can’t replicate Nash or Dwight’s skills in practice.
He should be fired immediately if that's what he was doing.
Now that the season has circled down the crapper, why not see what the rook’s can do. But we spent much of the season within striking distance of the 8th seed, if he was intentionally giving games away then off with his head.
But let me turn it around for you….what if he was indeed doing everything he could to win every single game (until recently) and what you are calling trying to get young guys experience at the expense of winning was really what Flip believes is the best way to match up against Dwight, Nash, etc? If that’s the case, does that mean he’s a poor coach?
If he couldn't recognize that we were getting killed the same way over and over
Then yes, he’s an idiot and should be fired. Even the casual fan could see what was happening.
My assumption is that you don’t reach top 20 all time in wins as an NBA head coach if you’re that stupid about the game of basketball. Therefore, I conclude that Flip had a goal other than winning those games. Player development is the best explanation.
Teaching them to play defense in a fashion that would have possibly
negated Dwight Howard and Steven Nash and resulted in more wins would sure seem to be a great way to develop players.
Why are you all assuming that there is anything we could possibly do to negate Nash or Howard?
by MR on Mar 10, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe we couldn't stop them.
But if we made some obvious defensive adjustments, we could at least hold them under 70% FG%.
We didn’t make those adjustments. Instead, we let our guys have maximum exposure to the great ones doing their thing. That could be a good thing in the long run.
i agree
that our defensive options seem limited to playing teams straight up or going zone. neither of which stop anyone. I’ve never had confidence in flip bringing a top level defense with him. that was my main argument against him working with Gilbert, AJ and Caron. We hired tour Norv Turner as a HC when he should be an OC.
the problem is most player who come into the league are one way players
Players like Booker and Seraphin are good defenders, but not much for offense.This is a young team and it takes awhile for players 2 become 2 way players and some players simply do not have the physical ability to become 2 way 2 way. So to build a top defense, you need players who can play on both ends of the floor to some degree. I think Blatche is a good example of how difficult that can be. He practically had a nervous breakdown trying to become one. Now he is becoming one. So you can’t blame Saunders for not having the players right now.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
i can blame him
for the defensive scheme he puts on the floor. thats his. Execution is often on the players. But when the players show they have trouble with the scheme he has done almost nothing to keep them competitive. we now have a second unit of young aggressive rookies but don’t trap or pressure one bit.
As Monta said, they knew they could get what they wanted all night.
Execution is always on the players
and they are not very good right now. It can take years for these players to develop defensively and almost every one of them is a one way player. This is the price for having young players. Players are not machines. They organically grow and learn and not at the same time. If you want good defense, then start bringing in veterans. This team is getting younger and it will be a process. Little by little. Game by game.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree
that it takes years to put together a decent defensive team. it starts with the scheme. I believe we are failing at the schematic level.
The team is not failing on any level
Its developing. That is what this team is doing. I am sure there is no defensive scheme on the planet that Saunders is unaware of. Its what his players are capable of doing and it is not much right now.If his players were capable of playing in any defensive scheme you gave them, they would be winning more games. He does not have that luxury. He has to teach them and they have to learn and it is going to be a slow process.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
He is also quite capable of fouling and getting beat
Sometimes Wall can keep a player in front of him and sometimes he can’t keep anyone in front of him.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The problem with the whole Wizard defense is McGee
I can go into a lengthy explanation as to why, whether it has been zone or man to man. But, McGee is after around 60 games, may be making some effort to become a better player. Maybe posters like me are not helping his instructional video sales. If McGee is going to try, then I will try not to sardonically smirk. I will simply watch to see how he progresses. If his progress stops, I will alert the boys and girls who want to learn basketball that McGee is a mean old giant who plans to eat them if they give him 2 dollars.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
More than anything in basketball
pressure defense needs to be understood and executed perfectly by all 5 guys on the court, to be anywhere near effective.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on Mar 10, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
agree with this 100%
Young, long, really athletic team….you’d think the least we could do is harass the hell out of opponents up and down the floor. Yet as the losses mounted, I cant recall seeing any switch to a pressure D or at least getting on the opposing PG. It’s all this lousy zone that none of the players really get and generally led to guys looking at each other as guards made layups.
Flip wanted to win every single game he could.
I’m sure that whatever he has done defensively during the majority of the year is exactly what he thought was the best way to beat the teams we’ve faced. This team and its record constitute a professional embarrassment for Flip. If he was fired, nobody is going to be beating down his door to coach the ready-made contender that everyone seems to think is what he requires. He wanted to win these games more than some of the players IMO
You can develop players and try to win games
You can’t win games if players don’t improve and they can’t improve if you don’t let them play, but that doesn’t mean you can’t try to win the game. Have a game plan. So you can do both.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
The goal is to win a championship
There are multiple goals to reach along the path to a championship. Win the next game. Make the playoffs. Develop players. And probably hundreds of others.
Often, some of those intermediate goals will be at odds with each other, so part of the head coach’s job is to decide which of those intermediate goals should be given priority. My guess is that Flip feels it is more important for Wall and Blatche to learn to stop a superbly finely tuned pick and roll than for us to have a 30% chance of beating the Suns instead of a 5% chance.
I respect that decision, especially because it is very possible that Flip might not even benefit from it. The fruits of that decision might not come for three or four years, and by then Flip might not be our coach anymore. In contrast, the black mark in the W-L column shows up on his record instantly. I bet most NBA coaches make the CYA move instead.
Leonsis lets McPhee and Boudreau
do their thing with the Capitals. They win and flop in the play offs. That is what got Saunders fired in Detroit. Boudreau is still coaching. Leonsis does not seem to be quick to fire people. Instead of firing Boudreau, the team adds and subtracts players. Leonsis attitude with fans is:let them eat cake.
I see him the same way with Grunfeld and Saunders. Blow up and rebuild the team and that is what Grunfeld and Saunders. They are not doing anything to get fired and I think they both have full control for at least 2 more seasons. This is why Saunders can do what he wants. Grunfeld gets the players and Saunders develops them and don’t call Leonsis until 2013. Leonsis doesn’t care what the fans think. Let them eat cake.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
i like the idea of lucas
there are few guys out there who command the respect of their players in this high-salaried era. i don’t think this team respects flip, that’s just my opinion from watching interactions both live and on tv.
by insidethelines15 on Mar 9, 2011 10:33 PM EST reply actions
What Current Head Coaches are Free Agents?
I have no clue but I would love to know who is free to negotiate after the season.
I think the coaches are free to talk whenever pretty much, it's not like college where the schools must give permission first
and head coaches of the current high performing teams don’t want to rebuild the next year…
good lord
why do people bring up Jerry sloan. he’s onyl coached in one place, ever. He has increasingly alienated his young players. his style was part of the reason FA’s wouldn’t come to Utah. But he’s a good fit for the least experienced team in the NBA? No, no, no.
He’s riding off into the sunset. Let him be.
Because he won. For many years.
Which is the whole point.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
John Wall
He developed Stockton and Williams.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
so?
What does that have to do with him wanting to coach here? There is no way in hades that soon to be 70 year old Jerry Sloan is coming here to coach a core of rookies. He’s spent his entire head coaching career with one franchise, 2 time zones away. The league he played in doesn’t exist anymore. The league he did most of his coaching in practically doesn’t exist anymore. He struggled reaching younger players. He’s admitted to knowing how to coach players because he can’t relate to them. He is sure as sht not the answer to developing this roster.
I did not say Sloan wants to come here
Its a reason to hire him, simply to develop Wall.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I am not advocating for Sloan
I don’t think Saunders is going anywhere soon and thats fine with me. I am not unhappy with Saunders and if Sloan took over for Saunders I would not be unhappy with that either. Both are very good coaches who have coached all sorts of players and have done well with teams. I think its ridiculous when people say, Saunders can’t develop players or he needs a vet team. He has done both. he succeeded with both. I don’t mind Sloan because he has a track record. He wins in the NBA. He knows what he is doing. i would rather take my chances with a coach who has spent 20 years coaching and winning in the NBA than with some assistant that has never coached of won a single game. I don’t like fly by night coaches who won for a short time. Avery Johnson, for instance. Give me Popovich, Sloan, Jackson, even Brown. This is why I will take Saunders for life.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think coaches will move for the right situation. I know many of you don’t think so now but thats exactly what we are. We have an owner COMMITED to winning and will spend to do it. A quality point guard to build around cap space and picks. We also have some talented rookies and NY and JMG could be nice jury still out on Blatche (gotta leave those clubs alone ). i could see someone wanting to come here.
he will spend
Only when it is warranted. He won’t hit the luxury tax and he is probably one of the owners that wants the hard min and max caps along with a player cap. The caps benefited immensely from this over the last few yrs. These moves would also presumably accelerate the Wizards rebuild.
Caps have the highest payroll in the nhl but they are one of the top teams. Their final cap total is still tbd, depending on incentive pay earned, which counts against the cap.
by thewiz06 on Mar 10, 2011 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I dont see much top level change happening at the end of the year
Next year it will happen if we continue to maintain the status quo
by TheRealBigMike on Mar 10, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions
Dave Joerger
He’s clearly good with minor league talent, which just happens to be what we have.
Seriously though, I’m for keeping Flip for now, but of the alternatives I like his resume most. There’s something to be said for winning championships as a head coach with professional men.
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
I would like to give Saunders a team to coach before we fire him from it
Saunders is one of the best coaches in the NBA and replacing him isn’t easy. I am not sure exactly why he should be fired to begin with. If it’s for not motivating the 4,5,6 teams he has coached so far in the last 2 seasons, then people need to agree which of the teams he needs to be fired from and then let him coach some of the other teams to see how he does with them. I would prefer to give him 1 team to coach and then do the DC thing and fire him. I think next season, hopefully, will be the 1st season he has a team to coach and the team can begin to graduate players from the Flip Saunders Basketball Academy and put enough players on the floor next season who have some idea of what they are doing. The graduation process will continue in to next season with the hope that 8 or 9 players earn their degrees and there just might be a functioning squad at some point next season. After next season, there might be a complete team going into 2012-13. Maybe that is what Saunders meant by 2 seasons. As far as I can tell, Saunders will be the coach for at least 2 more seasons and Grunfeld will be the GM. And Leonsis is yachting the Greek Islands with no interest in the team until 2013.
by hambonejackson on Mar 10, 2011 11:53 AM EST reply actions
ted has no interest?
Ted has been in those dream seats next to the bench most games this season.
by thewiz06 on Mar 10, 2011 1:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I probably like
Lawrence Frank more than the rest. But I do think it’s a little shirt sighted to rule out Sam-I-Am. Sure, he could use more experience. Maybe tons more experience. But, personally, I’d rather give him a shot over one of these multiple retreads. Truthfully, I’ll go one step further and say I’d like to see Mark Jackson in there. I know both he AND Cassell are longshots. Not only to be hired on, but to be successful. But, much like the landing of the #1 pick, I think the Wizards need to catch lightning in a bottle. And I think Jackson, or perhaps Cassell, could be that lightning. I guess what I’m saying is I’d rather miss swinging for the fences than miss on a bunt. Or, in other words, the safe call.
I could see Cassell working
Like you said, it would totally be catching lightning in a bottle. It would take lots of stars aligning but I can just see a tiny chance of it being a magic connection.
Screw rational basketball analysis. I <3 Jordan Crawford.
by returnofswagger on Mar 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I like Frank too.
I dont know that Cassell would be successful, but I do think the notion he needs to sit next to Flip for a certain period of time before he could be a head coach is offbase. He’s probably ready IMHO
the team isn't very good right now
firing flip won’t change much. we need new players. a blatche-young-wall foundation isn’t going anywhere.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 10, 2011 12:40 PM EST reply actions
That is why we need to get a first-rate 3 and 5 to go alongside them...
I have always advocated keeping McGee, but I confess I am beginning to warm up to the idea of trading McGee + the Atlanta pick to move up high enough in this year’s draft to have a chance to get a lottery pick for both positions… Kanter and Barnes might be nice, thank you…
In no particular order...
I like Bill Cartwright, Bob McAdoo, Bill Laimbeer and Frank Hamblen/Brian Shaw. I tend to lean towards HCs who can teach big men and the first three definitely can do that. I also like that Laimbeer played with toughness and can help inspire that in his players (and/or may help to run those lacking it out). And I have to think that if either Hamblen or Shaw were to receive the Lakers head job, the other would just as likely look at another opportunity if one was offered.
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
I wouldn't mind Spo at all
He’s overwhelmed coaching the Heatles, but his teams with Wade always played hard.
Well Riley just gave him a vote of confidence.
So he will certainly be fired soon.
by MR on Mar 10, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Riley will fire him and no, Riley isn't going to coach that team.
It’s just not happening. So what if Miami lost five in a row? They’re still gonna be at least a 50 win team for the next four to six years barring injury and/or the new CBA forces the core to break up.
I do however believe that Spoelstra’s legacy will be determined by what happens AFTER Pat Riley retires from the Heat organization or after he takes a job elsewhere.
Did anyone consider Henry Bibby -might be able to convince his son to play here. HAHAHAHA
Could Calipari bring Kanter and Terrance Jones and Himslf to the Wiz on Draft day?
I say bring in Earl Boykins as a player/coach
Actually, I’m in the keep Flip as coach camp. He’s not perfect, but I think we’re likely to do worse by replacing him than by keeping him right now. Wall will develop better under Flip than he will under an eager new coach with innovative ideas on how to run an offense. I’d be more comfortable if Flip would downplay the zone defense though.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Mar 10, 2011 3:50 PM EST reply actions
I like Mario Ellie
Always thought he would be good head coaching material. Plus, he speaks French? That would be great for Seraphin.
http://www.nba.com/coachfile/mario_elie/index.html
"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,
DeShawn Stevenson
Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.
by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Mar 10, 2011 6:52 PM EST reply actions
impossible.
someone on the team must be able to feel their face.
Kevin Pritchard for GM. Former Portland GM, stud at maneuvering on draft day
by 8vechkin on Mar 10, 2011 7:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
as long
As we’re throwing out names, I’ll toss out Rick Mahorn. I don’t know how he’d work out over time, but it sure would be nice to see him inject some toughness into this team. Of course, he’d probably end up kicking Blatche’s ass.
So would Lambier. Wait He'd kick Dtay's too.
Draft Kantner and bring in Lambier. We’d get tough overnight. Be fun to watch.
by Janber on Mar 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Laimbeer and Mahorn
were a good coaching duo for the Detroit Shock and he was on board for the 2006 and 2008 championship teams.
Should Laimbeer become an NBA head coach soon for any team, I GUARANTEE that Rick Mahorn will be an assistant.
I just don’t see Mahorn becoming an NBA head coach before Laimbeer however because of the lack of NBA coaching experience and he only had one season (not quite a full season at that) where he was the head coach of the Detroit Shock in 2009, which also happened to be the last year they were in Detroit.
In all seriousness
I would LOVE to see Laimbeer and Mahorn coach the 2012 Bullets.
Either them or Tom Landry’s hat.
Dave Joerger
Success in minor leagues seems like it transfers over…I’d like to take a chance on this guy.
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