Hinrich for Brooks, Lee?
by Spanky731 on Feb 8, 2011 3:50 AM EST
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I propose that we trade Kirk Hinrich to the Houston Rockets for gaurds Aaron Brooks and Courtney Lee.
Brooks has fallen out of the rotation since hurting his ankle, and recently left a game during the 4th quarter because of frustrations with his lack of playing time. Courtney Lee is an efficient 40% from beyond the arc and would help this teams 23rd ranked defense improve, especially on the perimeter.
I've had the pleasure of meeting Kirk Hinrich on a few occasions and from what I've observed the guy is as classy as they come as far as NBA players go. He's a consummate professional who has never sounded off amid losing teams and trade rumors through-out his career.
How many other veteran point-gaurds would welcome getting benched by two rookie point-gaurds in less than three years and agree to "mentor" them despite the fact he's in the prime of his career?
The fact is though that Kirk is not a part of this team's future. Minutes that he's eating up on our young, rebuilding team are minutes that are not being used towards developing a player who can be a part of this club long-term. It's what the Spurs do, it's what the Celtics do/did, and it's what the Lakers have been doing for years. There is no upside with Kirk, lets just speed up the process and move him now.
Houston is in desperate need of stability and leadership at the point guard position: Kirk gives you both of those. 2009-2010 Most Improved Player Aaron Brooks is a talented young guard but he's not mature enough to lead a team in the Western Conference right now. He's set to be a free agent this Summer, and with the recent spats between him and his coaches it's highly unlikely he would want to re-sign. If your Houston wouldn't you want to at least get some compensation for what you've invested in Aaron Brooks?
A John Wall and Aaron Brooks back-court would give us a pair of complementary young guards who would provide a great change of pace but who could also play together. Defensively, John's a big guard (in terms of height and wingspan) and though I'd hesitate to put him on a team's best scorer, I don't doubt he has the capability of defending most shooting-gaurds.
Though i'm not sure if their styles are very similar, I do know that the combo of Wall and Hinrich on the floor at the same time doesn't work. One guy seems to kind of fade off while the other handles the ball and tries to run the offense. Neither one have a consistent out-side shot so they tend get one dimensional when they share the court. And if your Ernie Grunfield, wouldn't you want the increased flexibility of only being on the hook for 1.5 million instead of 9 million after this season? Resign both guys, or let them walk. What we'll get is half a season of them showing that they can play well with our core when given the opportunity.
I included Courtney Lee in this trade as well because he's wasting away on Houston's bench. I remember seeing a proposed trade for him on here a few weeks ago and I loved the idea. Since everyone is so set on building our team like Oklahoma City, I believe Courtney Lee could be our Thabo Sefolosha. Outside shooting threat, defensive pestand all-out hustle guy could be used to describe both players. Lee's gotten the short-end of the straw with his last few moves, getting buried on benches of teams "loaded" at his position. Kevin Martin has emerged as Houston's best player, and Lee isn't going to get any better playing 15-17 minutes a game behind K-Mart and Terrence Williams. Plus he'd still on his rookie deal so he'd come on the cheap at just $1.4 million per season for the next two years. He showed a lot of promise during his rookie year with Orlando and he's hungry to prove himself. Cartier Martin's played well but we're probably one of 2-3 teams in the NBA he could play for, lets start upgrading our depth and not just starters.
So lets take a look at the scenario:
Wizards: PG Kirk Hinrich (2011-$9million/2yrs) to Houston
Houston: PG Aaron Brooks (2011-$2million/1yr) and SG Courtney Lee (2011-$1.4million/2yrs)
The difference of $5.6 million would be made up by an existing Trade Exception Houston received in return for Trevor Ariza, which was worth a total $6.3 million. Though my understanding of trade exceptions is very limited, and assuming you could use the T.E. in the manner I suggested, this could be a big step in our path to rebuilding.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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I'd do it
Even though courtney lee’s last good season was his rookie in orlando, I don’t think he’s really gotten a chance to prove himself in the NBA, I think he could fit in nicely behind nick. I think Houston does this trade, even if hinrich is only a slight upgrade above lowry. The only person who would probably be opposed to this trade is Aaron Brooks, who clearly sees himself as a starting PG in this league, which i dont necessarily agree with.
I have a hard time seeing Daryl Morey sign off on this.
It’s not like the Rockets are one piece away from contending in the deep Western Conference, and that’s a LOT of youth going out the window. It does keep him from dealing with the headache of resigning Brooks after the Conley extension…hard to see Morey doing it without receiving some kind of draft pick, or another young player.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 8, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions
but if he waits out the season he'll get nothing for Brooks
my reasoning here again is that Aaron Brooks will be a free agent and isn’t happy with the team. If they don’t trade him they’ll risk letting him walk for nothing, why not improve a position of need on their team?
And for the money he'd cost
way too much for a backup
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 8, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
You cannot use a trade exception like that....
The salaries of Brooks and Lee ($3.4 Million) do not match up with Hinrich’s $9 Million
Since the Rockets are over the cap, their incoming salaries must be within 125% of their outgoing salaries PLUS $100,000
Trade Exceptions can be used to obtain ONE player with a salary lower than or equal to the trade exception amount. Trade exceptions can NEVER be combined. Trade exceptions can NEVER be “added” to players to form a trade. (ie: You CANNOT add Houston’s trade exception to Lee and Brooks to get to $9.4 Million)…
In the future, when proposing a trade, you should vet the trade through ESPN’s Trade Machine.
Additional information about Traded Player Exceptions (and the rest of the CBA Rules) can be found here.
Another thing to take into consideration is the number of players on each team’s roster…. In order to make your trade work, you will have to add players (salary) on the Houston side…. except Washington has 14 players on the roster…. If you trade away ONE player, and take in THREE – one player from the existing roster of 14 will have to be released. That player will continue to be paid in full (It’s after January 14th) and will count against the Wizards salary cap, even though they were released.
So for instance, to make your trade work, you would have to add about $4.4 Million in salary …. so:
You could add Brad Miller ($4.4 MIllion), but that would leave Houston with only 6’9" Chuck Landry as their only Center on the roster. Doubtful they would want to give up that much just to get Hinrich.
You could add Jared Jeffries ($6.9 Million) – and that trade works….
Courtney Lee + Aaron Brooks + Jared Jeffries (total $10.2 Million) for Hinrich ($9 Million)..
Washington would have to release a player (probably Cartier Martin)…..
That trade works SALARY wise… but I believe there’s NO WAY Houston does that trade…
1. Jared Jeffries expiring deal is worth more than just getting Kirk Hinrich
2. Brooks is a better player than Kirk (he’s putting up similar numbers to Kirk in 6 fewer minutes per night).
3. Courtney Lee – Houston can afford to give him up – they have a number of similar players already.
So – although this trade works from a salary perspective – Houston’s GM is much more shrewd than to make a deal so one-sided.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
thanks for the clarification
I tried doing some research online before I posted but it still seemed confusing.
Finally, we have the magical link that is Rook's endless supply of unattainable knowledge.
by returnofswagger on Feb 8, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's only been posted half a dozen times or more.....
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I never claimed that I pay attention
Or it’s kind of like the McGee-goaltend syndrome. I just… forget!
by returnofswagger on Feb 9, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
3. Courtney Lee – Houston can afford to give him up – they have a number of similar players already.
Sorry, that should read…
3. Courtney Lee – Houston can afford to give him up – they have a number of similar players already. But the trade of Jeffries/Brooks for Hinrich works without adding Lee……. so why would Houston add Lee to the pot? Why give up an asset, when the trade of Jeffries/Brooks for Hinrich is already so lopsided in Washington’s favor? (Brooks is essentially better than Hinrich at 1/4 the price, and Jeffries gives cap relief)….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
For that matter
Jeffries / Lee for Hinrich works….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I would rather have jeffries/ lee than brooks
Brooks could be a potential headache on this team when he is not satisfied with his role. Brooks is a guy who think he should start for any team at the point and that obviously will not happen here. Lee would be a great 3rd guard for the wiz. That would be a long, athletic 3 guard rotation with Wall at 6’4", Lee at 6’5", Young at 6’7". Lee brings an all around game to the table and has starting playoff experience. Him and Young’s size would give you the option to go with a 3 guard lineup every now and then with Wall at 1, Lee at 2, Young at 3. As far as Jeffries goes, I guess we could find some type of rotation for him but I would not resign him after his deal ends this year. I don’t know if Houston makes the trade, however. Although acquiring Kirk gives them the guard they want that could replace Brooks since they are trying to move him
I like this trade but
would we be left with Mustafa Shakur as our backup point guard for the remainder of the season? I don’t know how i feel about that. I know Courtney Lee can bring the ball up the floor but he doesn’t have the capability to run an offense. Plus i don’t even think we re-signed Shakur to a second 10 day contract.
I've got a better trade for you
Boston, with it’s injury problems is in desperate need of a Small Forward….
Ray Allen ($10M) + J. O’Neal (5.7M) for Rashard Lewis ($19 Million)
Washington immediately buys out Ray Allen – he can return to the Celtics for the Playoff run…
Wizards get rid of Rashard’s huge salary – and take on Jermaine O’Neal – who is still injured, recently had arthroscopy on his left knee and will be out 6-8 weeks……. But he could be a good trade chip next year.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Boston doesn't care about long term salaries....
and Lewis, with his defense and long range shooting is just the kind of player Boston needs…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
yeah no way
and Allen is shooting his highest % this year for his career….which is saying something.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Allen is having an amazing year
That team is so damn good. Just imagine if they had been together five years ago.
by zl on Feb 8, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
every year
is an amazing year for him. dude could keep playing another 5 years too.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Ray's been playing out of his mind
no chance their ruin their team continuity by trading him. We can say he’s getting old but the guy is a key piece of that teams formula and I don’t think they’d consider any offers for him.
You can say that exact thing about pretty much everybody but Rondo on their team.
He’s getting old but…
by returnofswagger on Feb 8, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I can't believe he's still playing as well as he is.
I wrote him off a couple of times in the past. The guy is like Jason Voorhees.
by MR on Feb 8, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
how bout we get a little more efficient
and ship out blatche at the same time
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4qq9sbx
I like this trade a lot
I’m not sure if Houston would be willing to let Jordan HIll go though. He’s found a niche in their lineup since Yao went down again so they might think he’s a keeper. Shane Battier we buyout and allow him to return to Houston by playoff time. We then get Lee and Brooks who both fill positions of need. We’re also rid of the two long term contracts for the future. Would be semi-sad to see Blatche go but I think he could fit in with what they like to do in Houston. We could throw in Hamady N’Diaye too to help their front court.
Same trade
works if you swap Jeffries for Battier and Patterson for Jordan Hill….
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4cu9p7h
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
AND
Houston is very high on Hill and might not want to give him up…. and Houston has always shown reluctance to trade Battier.
But Patterson is a very nice player – with (in my opinion) tremendous upside…. See my draft profile on him
He’s currently languishing on Houston’s bench behind Scola and Jordan Hill.
This is probably a VERY doable trade – as Houston is in need of a Center – and Andray Blatche can play center… and Hinrich can stabilize both their backup PG and SG positions…
For Washington they get about $8 Million in expiring contracts and a couple young players with upside in Lee and Patterson…
A much more LIKELY trade than trying to get Houston to give up both Jordan Hill AND Shane Battier …..
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
by Rook6980 on Feb 8, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
By the way
My opinion of Patterson has changed slightly since I wrote the draft profile… He subsequently measured out at a very decent 6’ 9.25" at the pre-draft measurements… With a 7’1.25" wingspan and excellent lane agility and sprint times….
In my profile, I was worried about his size – but he has plenty of size to play PF in the NBA.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
shoot this over to EG and get it done
just like I said Hill’s played pretty well for them since Yao got hurt. He’s starting to show some of the upside everyone thought he had coming out of Arizona. There’s no way they give him up for anyone we have on the block.
Patterson flourished his senior season at Kentucky when he played with John Wall. Like Rook said he isn’t getting any blow in Houston. This move makes so much sense even though it will probably never happen.
Gotta love trade proposals
Where else do BFers work so hard to justify that the player they DON’T want on this team is EXACTLY the piece another team needs – and they’ll be so excited to get our rejects that they’ll pony up young players and picks. And of course those young players resigned to that team’s bench are the missing pieces here.
by wjb1492 on Feb 8, 2011 2:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well- in the case of my trade proposal
Blatche/Hinrich for Jeffries/Courtney Lee/ Aaron Brooks/Patrick Patterson….
Houston gets a big man that can play Center… (the only Centers on the roster right now are Brad Miller and 6’6" Chuck Hayes). Blatche can give them some quality minutes and scoring at the Center position…. Hinrich, although he makes more than Brooks, won’t complain like Brooks will…… and will bring almost the same productivity – plus, Hinrich is a better defender. In addition, Hinrich can also help shore up their back-up SG situation.
The Rockets give up a whining Brooks, who wants out of Houston; Jeffries, who doesn’t play and two young players, both stuck behind young stars and their younger back-ups (Scola / Jordan Hill are ahead of Patterson and Kevin Martin, playing 36 minutes a game lately, is ahead of Courtney Lee)
Wizards get cap relief in Jeffries and Aaron Brooks salaries (approx $8.8 Million).
Brooks can back up John Wall for this year, until the Wiz can find a young PG to be the back up.
Courtney Lee is still relatively young (25) and plays passable defense and can shoot the 3 (39%)
Patrick Patterson has tremendous upside, but is picking splinters out of his shorts in Houston – He might be able to show what he can do in a Washington uniform.
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
I'm not saying there are never trades that work for both teams
Heck, I thought both teams won in the Shard-Gil trade (although Gil has played worse than I expected since the trade).
But an awful lot of them go overboard on rationalizing why some other team really wants to pay Kirk $8M SO MUCH that they’d be thrilled to give us a younger, cheaper player and a pick.
Nature of fandom
But I do think that a Kirk for Jeffries/Lee swap may actually make some sense for both teams.
And I do think there are productive players in some places who never get their chance
And can be more productive in different environments. Not sure Patterson is that guy though.
I happen to like Patterson...
But then, I like a lot of the guys on Houston…..
I’ve loved Shane Battier’s game for his whole career….
I wasn’t really sold on Patterson until the pre-draft camp… where he played in EVERY scrimmage…. did EVERY interview…. showed up for EVERY event,… EVERY measurement….. The interviews that I saw blew me away…. He came across as a serious person, with a tremendous drive to get better…. I like the fact that he was an inside player, but changed to a perimeter player his Senior year at Kentucky and actually has a decent jump shot now…. Always liked his rebounding and defense.
I also loved Chase Budinger. Every time I watched Arizona to get a feel for what kind of Pro Jordan Hill would become, Buddinger seemed to steal my attention…. He did everything for that team… Rebounded… shot 3-pointers… finished impressively on the break… I was really hoping the sneaker marks would wear off the side of his face before draft night…. I loved his athleticism. I actually liked Budinger better than Hill at the end…
I also think Ish Smith has a good career ahead of him in the League…
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Just in case you didn't catch my sneaker/face reference....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stsKIWb1bAM
He's "delightfully cranky"
I used to have super powers until my psychiatrist took them away.
Patterson's certainly an upgrade over Blatche
But who could we give the Rockets for Patterson? They know he’s better than Blatche, and I don’t see why they would want Kirk. Post any of these trades on the Rockets blog and they’d laugh at you. We have to give away something, and I don’t think Blatche and Hinrich is enough.
by zl on Feb 9, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
I strongly disagree that the Rockets need a pg
One of the main reasons the rockets are looking to trade Brooks is because Kyle Lowry has been playing some of the best basketball of his life. So it’s actually ok for them to lose brooks, I’d figure that their biggest need is a good center, and the next position is perhaps the pg in terms of need but I dont think Kirk is any upgrade compared to Kyle Lowry.
by Young Wook Lee on Feb 10, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Hate to rain on the parade
Houston doesn’t want Hinrich and we’re not keen to move Aaron since we’re rebuilding soon. Add to it the idea of chasing after Lee as well and it’s just getting daft. Just because Houston is looking to deal doesn’t mean we’ll shaft ourselves on a trade. We’d gladly take McGee off your hands and John Wall but I really think that’s where Houston’s interest would stop. By the deadline we’re looking to get some kind of young center who defends rather than shuffle chairs on the titanic.
We all like to talk without much to say...
I'm weird
in that I can’t stand Varejao or the love for him. Sure he was helpful with Lebron in Cleveland but just, to me, buhhh. Not to mention given his recent injury he would make sense in Houston. I’m pretty sure it’s a team that once you’re traded here you get half your salary and a spot on the injured reserve.
We all like to talk without much to say...
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