Gilbert Arenas once again says the Wizards need veterans around John Wall
by Mike Prada on Feb 16, 2011 12:46 PM EST
in Agent Zeroisms
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PrintThe Wizards visit Gilbert Arenas and the Orlando Magic tonight, which of course gives Arenas the chance to step on his soapbox. Yesterday, in an interview with reporters, he repeated something he's said before: that the Wizards need to stop this youth movement and surround John Wall with veterans.
"Hopefully, [the Wizards make] the right decisions by building with veterans around him, like they did with Rondo, like they did Derrick Rose. You've got to put veterans so he can learn how to play winning basketball. If he stays with all these young guys, they are just going to learn how to lose and be okay with it."
Ah yes, the dreaded "bad habits" argument.
There is some legitimacy to Arenas' point, in that having a bunch of knuckleheads who aren't very good and don't take the game seriously is bad for a point guard. Indeed, we've seen Wall develop some bad habits, such as poor man-to-man defense and turnovers, that you hope go away.
But the reality is that Arenas is cutting corners with this opinion. It's not veterans the Wizards should find, it's high-quality, high-character players of any kind. The Celtics didn't surround Rondo with just any group of veterans; they did so with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in a series of trades the Wizards can't hope to duplicate. The Bulls didn't really do what Arenas suggested either -- the truth is they had a very good team full of players who knew how to be successful that just so happened to tank for one year before winning the lottery. In that way, they get lucky. They then exchanged some veterans for others at the 2009 trade deadline, only to purge away other veterans in 2010.
Plus, for every Rondo or Rose, there's a Russell Westbrook or Chris Paul, two outstanding point guards that developed into superstar-caliber players without their respective teams really going out of their way to acquire veterans. Sometimes, the culture of losing thing is overrated. Sometimes, the youth/veteran dichotomy is also overrated. There are young players who act like veterans, and there are veterans who act like young players. To follow Arenas' advice would be to lock yourself into a binary kind of strategy.
In other words, keep building through the draft. Just find mature players while doing it.
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Unless we get a Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen......
We are going to have to settle for Kirk Hinrich, Rashard Lewis and Josh Howard.
The key was getting Gilbert’s influence away from John and next will be Andray Blatche, but apparently, no one wants him (no trade offers that we know off since Ernie put him on the trade market). Addition by subtraction.
While Gil does say some pretty interesting things sometimes,
he IS responding to a question. It’s not like Gil is out there asking for reporters to write his current thoughts. Reporters come to him with questions in hope of attaining a good quote or two. I feel bad for some athletes out there that get ripped for some of the things they say because most people think they are just looking for attention, when in fact they were instigated by a reporter looking for a story. No reason to tell Gil to shut up, just don’t read any articles about him when he was asked to respond to a question.
by PhenomenalSwag on Feb 16, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he comes off fairly bitter.
Would do his own image good to talk less, but whatever, obviously he can say whatever he wants
Rec'd
Honestly Gil doesn’t go out of his way to bad mouth the Wiz or anybody. He is answering a question here and that is all he usually is doing. If anything, you can accuse him of being too honest, but I personally like him for just that.
If you don’t like him, then ignore him. That is easy because its not like he gets a ton of media time these days. Wiz fans that hate Gil for accidentally tearing apart the team that he was the heart of anyway, I kind of get that. But don’t be bitter over the stuff he did wrong. Especially if we are calling him bitter. Gil is exactly what he has always been. Maybe just with a little less personality these days.
by returnofswagger on Feb 16, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not bitter over anything re: Gil
He gave us the best times this team has seen since forever. The Verizon Center and Chinatown were just AMAZING after some of those game winners…i’ll never forget thousands of people spilling into the streets just on fire with the games he had. Thanks for the memories Gil, is how I will always feel.
But I do find it annoying how often he seems to be ragging on Dray and Nick recently.
I agree with what Gilbert is saying. I think Wall will get there, but it’ll take more time and it really could lower his ceiling even if he does have a high basketball IQ. Looking at Gilbert’s game, I feel he was a victim of this to a lesser extent. I loved watching him play and that he brought a lot of heart to the table, but at times I felt like the Wizards were playing streetball. Don’t know if anyone else shares this opinion.
Well said, Mike
I take notice of what Arenas says, because he is an astute guy. If you can point to one reason that teams that are always in the lottery remain in the lottery, perhaps it is that there are no top notch veterans for the youngsters to learn from. To the end, looking back at my objections to the Wizards adding Hinrich and resigning Josh Howard this summer, I think I was wrong. It is good to have those guys around.
But, I think Gilbert misses the mark here, at least partly. Chicago would be a team that I would point to as the model for building through the draft. Just off the top of my head, in recent years, Chicago added the following through the lottery — Noah, Deng, Rose, Tyrus Thomas, and Sefolosha. Heck, if the Bulls hadn’t stupidly traded LaMarcus Aldridge (#2) for Tyrus Thomas (#4), isn’t what the Bulls did exactly what Ted and many of us have in mind? Man, what a team that would be — a frontcourt of Noah, Aldridge and Deng, with Rose running the point and Sefolosha off the bench? Nice.
Second, the Celtics did not put veterans around Rondo. The veterans were the keys, and Rondo was added to them. I don’t think anyone on this board would be opposed to Ernie surrounding Wall with three future hall of famers, but that’s not happening.
Perhaps Gilbert is reflecting on his own Golden State experience (I think he has mentioned in the past how veterans helped him), and his first person assessment of the talent on the Wizards.
Rondo was in fact a serendipitous find...
A late first rounder who is the second coming of Jason Kidd, only with more hops? Sometimes you get lucky….
what the Bulls is did is win the lottery in a year they had 2% chance or whatever
which happened to be the year a franchise PG was available. LUCK.
Not that their other picks and moves arent great, but man it’s daunting how much PURE LUCK is involved with the “build through draft” strategy
OT:
MIKE, YOU’RE FAMOUS!!!!!
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2011/02/ksk-taste-test-bud-light-bottoms-up-dispenser.html
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 16, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions
What is amazing about people
is how they need to make certain that Budweiser is not serving beer that defy Newtonian laws, so they open up a hole in the bottom of their cup to see what will happen. Never under estimate how innovative Budweiser can be with beer.
by hambonejackson on Feb 16, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the real money quote from Gilbert (emphasis added)
“He has that nagging injury and any other franchise would sit him down so he can get healthy, but with the pressure, he’s not going to let himself sit and play and play and play and hopefully it doesn’t get worse.”
I agree with Mike
It’s important to get high-character guys around Wall (preferably very talented ones) rather than experienced veterans. For example, I think someone who plays with great effort such as Trevor Booker is more important to have on the team with Wall than someone with far more NBA experience, such as Andray Blatche.
In a perfect world, rookies like Wall and Booker and Seraphin will mature together and emerge as a dangerous team while adding more talented high-character guys along the way.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Feb 16, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions
I disagree with this
I know that from a fan’s perspective, effort is the be-all and end-all. But some guys who play with great effort have no clue how to play, and are incredibly frustrating to play with. Whereas someone who is low-effort might know how to play, be effective, and be a great mentor and resource for a young guy. So let’s not oversimplify things.
Perhaps what you were trying to say is that it is important to put competitive guys who yearn to play the right way around Wall, regardless of whether they are young or old. That’s the way I would put it, at least.
Yes
I was including great effort in with the attributes of a high-character player. I would also like that player to have a high basketball IQ, great leadership qualities, elite ball skills, freakish athletic ability and a great smile.
And yes, I agree that effort is in no way the only measure of an effective player. Although I’m not sure there are many guys in the league who are effective players and great mentors who also are low-effort.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Feb 16, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Poppycock
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Feb 17, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Gil has any effect on Leonsis whatsoever.
Ted knows what it takes to build a winner, has a solid plan, and will stick to it. Gil can blow as much hot air as he wants – it just goes right up the chimney and dissolves in open space.
The plan better not be suck for several years to acquire high picks.
‘Cause Jimmy Wall may take his talents to South Beach if he’s in his contract year and has yet to play in a postseason game.
I agree with this post
but it’s also much easier to find a mature 30-year-old than a mature 20-year-old, and if you’ve got a top draft pick, you’re not going to pass up on an elite athlete to take a 2nd rate player with a better work ethic. Plus, vets are known commodities. Rashard Lewis and Kirk Hinrich seem like good people to have around. Also, don’t forget that John Wall hasn’t just been handed the reins of a struggling team, he’s been handed the reins of the goddamn Wizards. He needs all the help he can get.
The most important things I agree with
Is Gilberts comments about a franchise sitting their franchise player who has a nagging injury. Think Brandon Roy.
Also I think the most important thing for a team is to have high quailty, high character guys who play with energy and effort (unless you can field a team the Lakers, Heat or Celtics can).
This is why I’m so excited about the draft this year. Depending on whose available, we get to see how the WiZ approach building this team. I hope they avoid guys like Terrance Jones (charecter) and Perry Jones (IQ) and draft a guy like Sullinger if available. I havent watched a ton of college ball yet but Derrick Williams also looks like one of the good guys.
I think Gil just knows what the Wizards have around John is making it hard to win,
while at the same time being a group that is going to have some trouble fighting through the losing while still playing hard. But I agree that the issue is maturity and professionalism.
On the other hand, I don’t think you can go all in on “youth” youth all at once. To hear (read?) some people talk, anyone who won’t be around in 3-4 years when John is in his prime should be dumped for picks. I’m totally down with a build through the lottery (while holding options open to add through free agency as it doesn’t screw up the plan), but I don’t think you can add more than a couple of rookies per year if you are adding guys who are going to want PT. That puts too much inexperience on the floor at once. It doesn’t have to be a bad habits/culture thing, but I think it’s a whole lot easier to work on development when you’re seeing some success on the floor.
Basically, I like Ted’s plan. Build through the draft, but include some “good guy” vets to help with the development. As their contracts expire (or hit expiring), replace them with younger guys. The issue is less with what the vets cost, because the kids are so cheap. It’s finding the vets who won’t complain, won’t be bad influences, will play fewer minutes so the kids get time, and don’t cripple the multi-year plan, all while bringing some experience to go along with the maturity.
I’m ambivalent on the injury issue – I think Gil is mainly enjoying the chance to criticize the org. I don’t think they’d be playing John if there were any risk of aggravation or permanent harm, and pros play through aches and pains. I also feel for Flip, because as much as everyone criticizes the minutes John gets while not feeling 100% in the abstract, every freaking game thread someone goes off about why John’s on the bench at whatever minute he happens to be off the floor.
I think the plan is get to be in the playoffs.
I think one day people will realize that the Wiz are an NBA team and not d-league team. Its nice, when dumping payroll, that the team can bring in young players to look at. Now that the last of the payroll dumping will be expiring next season, and that they can look at Wall this season,
So the Wiz will have a new plan, and that will be to win games. They will start dumping some of their d-league players for new players. I think this draft will be the last of the player development drafts and the beginning of the bringing in those players to win games, because this is the NBA and the d-league.
by hambonejackson on Feb 16, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Gil is on to something here.
There is obviously something to building through the draft because it has done been successfully from time to time. But it is something that requires a lot of luck. There are so many factors into drafting a successful player, even after you have a key piece like John Wall.
My ideal situation would be getting a SF and either a PF or C this year through the draft(preferably through trading up to get a 2nd lottery pick) and letting them play the season out. Then after next season, filling the remaining holes with some high character and experience guys that have been around for a while. This takes some pressure off of Wall to be successful because he will be around better players.
I am curious to see how the Thunder maintain their success, now that everyone expects them to win. Durant is a young guy who has a ton of pressure on him to win. If their success happened to tail off, he would face a lot of scrutiny, as he is the leader. It is a tricky situation, putting the weight of a team on a young guy’s shoulders, and then them not exactly succeeding(look at Lebron did in this situation).
by returnofswagger on Feb 16, 2011 5:42 PM EST reply actions
With you here...
I think a second lottery pick is crucial here…as high as possible. I’m aware the price would be astronomical, but if we have two top 5 picks, John Wall, Nick Young, and Trevor Booker, I’ll be happy.
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Feb 17, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
With you 100%
Everyone on this roster is replaceable besides Wall. Yes even Javale. This would just be furthering the idea of rebuilding. And stacking Wall around the talent of a top 5 plus another lottery pick would be awesome.
by returnofswagger on Feb 17, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
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