Bullet Points: Dan Gilbert Has Last Laugh (In Comic Sans) While Fake Season Saves Lives
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 12, 2011 12:23 PM EST
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PrintHere's a weekend edition of Bullet Points to help get you through your days off. Feel free to use it as an off-topic thread while we wait to find out if there will be a season. Come on, Schwartz...
It's an illusion! November 9th, the players are willing to accept a 50-50 BRI split in exchange for some help on systems issues. Hallelujah! Buuuut on October 20th, they were refusing to come down to a 50-50 BRI split without full resolution on system issues. Of course, it was Dan Gilbert telling the NBPA 'Trust me'. Three weeks of lockout negotiations to end up exactly where we were three weeks ago? I know there has been movement on some of those system issues...but if you had told me that Dan Gilbert would have the last laugh, I would have expected you to say it in Comic Sans.
You tell me you're a super-mega-ultra lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good...I'm good. Lockout burnout strikes the hardcore masses and it's getting harder and harder to attach any significance to the updates out of New York. 'No, now we're really, really serious and there's a chance we could possibly-cancel-the-whole-season-or-maybe-have-75-games-we'll-see.' Fans are approaching the point where they're ready to say 'call me when it's over.'
Suspense is worse than disappointment. Thank baby Jeebus for the fake season. My actual baby has been sick (fever blisters...nerve-wracking) so I've been off the grid for a while...but knowing that games are not not (not) happening is an odd source of comfort. Peanut butter and pickle sandwiches for the NBA fan's soul.
YouTube Myspace and I'll Google your Yahoo! The league is rumored to cancel the season if no accord can be reached, the players are rumored to petition their leadership to decertify...the process and consequences of Scenario A are fairly obvious. Scenario B is going to require explication from guys like Howard Beck and Tom Ziller to gain a full appreciation of whether or not it's even possible. Until then, like the man said, 'It would be bad.'
Don't even think about playing yourself into shape. (1) It's never a good idea...we've seen where that road leads and it doesn't go anywhere until the team is eliminated from playoff contention. (2) A compressed season means little recovery time between court times. Which means your body better be tuned and humming like a concert violinist's you-know-what. Addressing players head-on is definitely a faux pas...but in case any of them are reading this and thinking about it...BAD LLAMA!
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I read tweets that aren't giving much hope...
From players but also from a dudes like Aschburner and Bucher. Meanwhile @NBA_Labor is trying to correct false claims…
If I was the players I would sign the petition to decertify for leverage purpose and reject the offer, make a counter offer and show willingness to negotiate with the threat of decertification looming. That way they get a little more control in this thing instead of the wait & react game they have been playing so far. Besides Stern has made deadline threats before and is not keeping them, presumably because the owners are not unified in their willingness to mis the entire season now that they got the players to 50%. Competative balance be damned.
However, Im not the players or the owners. I want a better league. A league in which you can suck as a team but also can rebuild to the point of contention rather quickly. Long live competative balance! BRI be damned!
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
BTW signing the petition is not the same as actual decertification
its only showing the willingness to ask the court for permission to organize a vote which determines wheather or not the NBPA is decertifying.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 7:19 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
players are rumored to petition their leadership to decertify…[decertification] is going to require explication from guys like Howard Beck and Tom Ziller to gain a full appreciation of whether or not it’s even possible
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Stern is now trying to negotiate through the media
Stern is aware of the numerous comments from players criticizing the proposal, and fears they aren’t getting the proper information about its contents because agents worry it will cost themselves money.
“By some combination of mendacity and greed, the agents who are looking out for themselves rather than their clients are trying to scuttle the deal,” Stern said in a phone interview. “They’re engaged in what appears to be an orchestrated Twitter campaign and a series of interviews that are designed to deny the economic realities of the proposal.”
…
“Yes, I am worried,” Stern said, "because they’re talking up this thing called decertification which is not a winning strategy on the one hand. On the second hand, it’ll take three months to teach them it’s not a winning strategy, which would not augur well for the season.
“The agents misunderstand it and all it does is delay things. They themselves think that if the players decertify, then the league will change its offer. And that will not happen as a result of decertification. It’s a losing strategy for them.”
Thanks for the advice David. Duly noted.
We talked poker a few days ago. In poker, this is called a tell. Pretending they have a hand much stronger than he does through strong talk. He is basically begging them not to decertify. Now, that could be him trying to save his legacy, but he should have thought about that months ago instead of playing chicken.
Based on this comment, I would be racing towards decertification. It seems like it would finally get the owners attention.
by DavidDunn on Nov 13, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what's really happening while Stern plays his game of chicken
in public with Billy Hunter.
Knicks owner James Dolan blew off the two-day desperation labor session between the NBA and players’ union in Manhattan with one source saying he has been sickened by the failure of his fellow owners to make a deal.
Seems to me that there is a possibility that the big market owners are going to say enough and tell the small market owners to suck it up. “We let you in, not the other way around. (We are looking at you Ted)”.
Quite frankly, the agents may be saving the players from themselves.
Yhe big market teams do not have the power anymore
You need 16 teams and they dont have it
by jmpalomo on Nov 13, 2011 8:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
nor do the hardliners...
so I then resort to the golden rule….he who has the gold (tv and merchandise revenue) makes the rules…
If you think the guys making all the money don’t have the power, I think you should reconsider how business works (regardless of what PR is reported in a negotiation process).
Don't insult him. He's right.
1 owner, 1 vote.
Sure there are rich market owners who want to play but as long as they are in the minority every deal gets shot down. If they really want to play they should share more revenue. Plusmas many have mentioned Leonsis is sitting on a huge sleeper market, not a poor one.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First of all...there is no insult anywhere in my comment
And I was very careful to ensure that there was none, I even retyped it. Please refrain from making unfounded accusations. I respect the community rules and I expect the same from everyone else.
With that being said, 1 owner 1 vote is not the same as everyone has the same power.
An example…the President of the United States has one vote, and so do I. Who has more power?
Another level down….Derek Fisher has one vote and so does Nick Young. Who do you think has more power in the process?
In any democratic process, some people will have more sway than others during the process leading up to a vote, and those people wield a more significant amount of influence of the undecideds And nine times out of ten, it is those with money or existing power that get their voices more readily heard. Period.
And that isn’t an insult.
You're comparing apples with banana's
Nick Young as much ‘power’ as Kobe Bryant in the sence that they both have one vote. Ofcourse Fisher has more power as he’s sitting at the negotiating table and Nick isnt, just like Obama is involved in making laws and you are not (that I know of)
Does Kobe’s voice have more influence? Yes, but in the end of the day he has one vote like Nick. Same applies for the owners.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
You brought in numbers of votes, not me...
My original comment that you attempted to refute was:
If you think the guys making all the money don’t have the power, I think you should reconsider how business works (regardless of what PR is reported in a negotiation process).
Notice how I said nothing about voting….
Seems as though we came to agreement…
Does Kobe’s voice have more influence? Yes, but in the end of the day he has one vote like Nick. Same applies for the owners.
That was my point….
Seems to me that there is a possibility that the big market owners are going to say enough and tell the small market owners to suck it up. "We let you in, not the other way around. (We are looking at you Ted)".
In other words, suck it up and let it go.
No need to find disagreement when there is none.
Btw-no, i am not creating any laws…AFAIK :)
This guy gets it...
http://twitter.com/#!/stevenovak20
stevenovak20 Steve Novak
Hey David Stern, anyone who gains over $3B in a negotiation and threatens to demand more should be very careful who they call “greedy!”
Lots of good points in his feed….
Harsh
Rumors Drown Truth on N.B.A.’s Proposal
One of the N.B.A.’s new demands does leap out: a call for a 12 percent reduction in rookie and minimum-scale contracts, cutting them to 2007-8 levels.
What? Why?
Craziness…sounds like a leveraging tool…makes no sense to me…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 13, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
They are doing a TO endzone dance if they think
they are about to win….
otherwise, they are intentionally trashing the season…
I don’t see how either option places them in a good light…
Yeah...pyrrhic victory...
writing about that Tuesday…
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Nov 13, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
The players dont want roll backs on the current contracts
So FA’s and future contracts take all the cut backs. That is bad for the rank and file so a portion of the cutbacks will go to rookies.
I think its rediculous that there is a bri split cut but everyone who happens to have a contract right now isn’t feeling the slightest bit of pain over the life of that deal, but that is what the nbpa wants…
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Because there are no rollbacks
in the last proposal, if I recall it correctly. Meaning, players with current contracts will make exactly what they would dispite the lower BRI split (except the missed games of course) The lower split will bring down the cap but the contracts stay the same, which means less room for FA’s and to compensate for that the rookie deals are getting a cut.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
The cap stays the same, so the salaries should too
Everyone takes a loss via escrow, and the severity of that loss depends a lot on when the owners amnesty players.
USA Today has a copy of the proposal
Players making the league minimum could see a 23% cut in salaries.
Here's a link to JaVale's latest youtube video, guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2SIuAKxN4&feature=feedu
I feel like he’s finally starting to get it, guys. Could be a breakout year.
……..-_-
I thought thatmwas really funny...
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 13, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Hee's Howard Beck's attempt to cut through the misinformation being spread.
Love these documents the NYTimes manages to “obtain” while so many other “journalists” seem to just trust the “information” found in random tweets offered by biased sources. ;>
this is funny as "league concessions"
For instance, the league is now proposing a higher midlevel exception for luxury-tax-paying teams — $3 million for three seasons, and available every year. The league had been proposing a $2.5 million exception for two seasons, and available every other year.
The league also increased the annual raises for "Bird" players. And, at the union’s suggestion, the N.B.A. agreed that the 10-year labor deal could be terminated by either side after the sixth year, instead of the seventh.
and then they pretend that the d-league item
isn’t in play…but yet say this..
As for the D-League, the N.B.A. does want to grant teams the right to send any player with up to five years experience to its minor league. However, that provision is not contained in the proposal that is now up for union approval. Rather, it is one of 30 to 40 secondary items that have yet to be negotiated. Those items are typically discussed after the main framework of a deal is approved.
The article is true, but clearly it was significantly guided by someone from the league…
Not a very balanced article in terms of structure…the tweets seems to be on point from what I can tell other than semantics…
Would you rather have 15 players on your team.......
And 2 of them go to the D league and get paid OR
Just have the team have 13 players?
by jmpalomo on Nov 14, 2011 5:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Of course.
But since a number of players’ agents spent all weekend complaining that they had yet to see any specifics from the union about what the proposal really contained so they could intelligently advise their clients as to what course of action to take, I don’t see distributing actual information as anything but helpful.
Stern and Silver awnsering CBA questions via twitter starting at 7
@nba for your q’s.
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
I take that as a good thing.
many question that weren’t too flattering were retweeted by the league.
by thewiz06 on Nov 13, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed, but the answers were not very in dept obviously
"My logic fails all the time...especially when talking to females" Rook6980
by Dutch Hoopfan on Nov 14, 2011 4:21 AM EST up reply actions
true
they’re mostly re-hashing the same things that have been said at press conferences, but unlike most writers who though it was a total disaster, I thought it was good as a way to reach out to the fans directly about the last deal offered
by thewiz06 on Nov 17, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Are the players ready to have all current contracts voided?
Yikes!
I doubt it but players (NHL Players) have thought they had the upper hand and got seriously burned.
They lost a years salary, major rollbacks and a hard cap.
Double yikes!
by jmpalomo on Nov 14, 2011 12:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
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