Gilbert Earns Playing Time in Orlando with his Defense
Just goes to show what good coaching can do...
Edit by rook6980: I thought this deserved a bump to the front page. Good find pk24.
Very interesting comments from Arenas on how he is playing defense differently because Dwight Howard is back there protecting him. The question is, could the Wizards change their defensive philosophy with McGee back there?
I think this needs some discussion.
over 1 year ago
Rook6980
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Are the Wizards playing too far off their man?
Are they still operating under the old defensive rules established by Eddie Jordan (and handed down to Ed Tapscott) – to protect the paint, not allow penetraton – “protect the rim” ?
Arenas’ comments indicate that he’s playing defense differently in Orlando than when he was in Washington – specifically because he has Dwight Howard behind him… Well, the Wizards have one of the best shot blocking big men in the game in JaVale McGee – could they play the same style defense?
He's "delightfully cranky"
I see a lot of what you mentioned---cause Gil is on a better team, he can ride players on the perimeter.
But more than that I think it’s Dwight that makes him look like a capable defender…shows you how damn good dood is.
I have to agree
Javale has potential, but I’m not sure he’s ever going to be a back-to-back defensive player of the year. Dwight Howard is closer to Bill Russell than he is to Javale.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 6, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
How much worse could it be?
If the Wizards changed their philosophy – and started playing the perimeter closer… it might invite more drives…. But even if he does nothing else well on defense, McGee CAN block shots. JaVale is currently second in the League at 2.5 blocks per game (in 27 minutes), actually better than Dwight Howard’s 2.32 (in 37 minutes)…. His 4.42 blocks per48 minutes obliterates Howards 3.17
Why not take advantage of that ONE skill that JaVale has that no one else in the League can even come close to…? Change the defensive philosophy to contest outside shots. Run players off the 3-point line. Make them take mid-range jumpers or drive to the shot blocker…
Wouldn’t that take advantage of our perimeter player’s strengths? We have long, quick, athletic perimeter defenders (except Kirk). To have them hang back, protecting the middle seems like a waste of skills. Let them contest on the perimeter… contest shots… Go OVER, or fight THROUGH screens. If they get beat – let JaVale try to block the resulting drive to the hoop….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I disagree with you here.
JaVale does get his number in the blocked shots category, but he is not an experienced defender and will not be able to control the paint. Blocked shots is not a good stat to tell if a player is a good interior defender. If there was a stat for “goes-for-every-pump-fake-and-gives-up-easy-layups”, JaVale would lead the league. I guarantee he gives up more easy buckets in the paint than he gets blocked shots.
JaVale will eventually be there in a couple of years, but right now he has a minimal impact on the game, defensively. Everyone makes the point that he alters so many shots but the number of defensive rotation mistakes and just plain bone-headed things he does on defense is absurd.
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 6, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree with much that, but the key thing is
Changing the defense in the way rook is stating would result in less defensive rotation mistakes. Rather than forcing square pegs in round holes, how about running a defense that plays to the team’s strengths (long, athletic, shot blocking) rather than relies on its weaknesses(raw, befuddled, lazy)
First, I have to watch and see how much this is actually happening.
Then I can decide if there is something wrong with it.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
by returnofswagger on Jan 7, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
That's an interesting thought.
Basically funnel all the perimeter scorers towards the shot blocker?
I think it would be way too soon (in terms of McGee’s developmental progress), but the bigger issue, I think would be how to stop McGee’s man from capitalizing.
JaVale may have a good BPG average, but he is a below average defender
For every blocked shot JaVale gets, he’ll also go for a pump fake and give up an easy layup. JaVale is not anywhere close to being in the same league as Dwight. Orlando has the privilege getting up in the face of shooters because they have Dwight there to protect the paint. We cannot say the same about JaVale. JaVale does not know how to protect the paint, all he knows is how to jump and try to swat shots away. I believe JaVale has the potential to have a Dwight-like impact on the game, defensively, but right now he is not even close to that.
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 6, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
He also goal tends a lot because of his tendency to block
He may average close to a goaltend a game.
I read it – ugh. The implication is that, after leaving the hapless, brain-dead wizards staff and teammates, he finally has a coach who knows how to teach defense. Please. We criticize coaches, but all NBA coaches have been surrounded by the game their entire lives. They know how to teach defense. Nick Young is learning very well how play defense, under this same coaching staff. The issue is desire – now it seems Gilbert has it, in this new situation where he is struggling to remain considered a good player in the NBA. I’m a bit appalled by the implication of the article: that not only do we suck, but we are idiots when it comes to teaching the game.
I fully expect Gilbert to eventually go back to his goofball, unfocused ways, once he gains a starting slot with Orlando. If the Orlando staff is smart, they will keep a capable point guard around in order to keep Arenas guessing and on his toes..
I didn't get that from the article
To me it seemed more like Gil had no particular interest in playing defense here, and since the rest of the team was bad defensively also, he just shrugged his shoulders. It really pissed me off to tell you the truth, and kind mof showed why Gil was never going to ultimately be the best team on a championship team.
Yeah, the main point was that Gil wasn’t “motivated” here, I think. But I also saw the implication that we werent’ doing the right things to make him become motivated.
by Tbonebullets on Jan 6, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I am waiting to see him defend in the playoffs
When the intensity gets turned up we’ll see how he will do.
agreed
it’s not like he tried hard but failed at defense before the gun thing. I’m sure there defensive system is better but it;s not like he ever showed much effort on the defensive end before his career blew up.
by BayAreaBullet on Jan 6, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ridiculous, just ridiculous.
You are paid a lot of moolah to defend. So, uh, do it. Exert the effort and do it. This stuff maddens me. These comments are in very poor taste, Gilbert. You’re telling me you made a choice not to play tip top defense to the best of your ability while making 105 million dollars? That’s junk.
Did you listen to what he actually said?
He said in Washington – they told him to “don’t let them drive” – “protect the middle” …..
He said NOTHING about not trying in Washington…..
He said in Orlando they don’t have to be concerned about getting beat – they only have to run their opponent off their shots… “run them off their comfortable shots” – don’t reach if you get beat. “Run em off the line”…..
He said NOTHING about making “a choice not to play tip top defense” in Washington …. but said volumes about the different defensive philosophies between the Wizards Coaches and the Orlando Coaching staff.
He's "delightfully cranky"
Another way to look at it...
Kirk Hinrich – before he came to Washington was an in-your-face defender. He got beat occasionally, especially by uber-quick guards… But he was a gritty defender, and always contested outside shots…
Now he comes to Washington. The Wizards have different coaches. They have a different coaching philosophy. Now Wizards fans are all complaining because he’s not a lock down defender. “Where’s this great defensive player we thought we were getting?”
Randy Foye last year – even though he’s undersized – had a reputation for being a decent perimeter defender… gave up tons of open shots last year.
Deshawn Stevenson was the best perimeter defender the Wizards had… even so, he was not very good… just better than sucky. He is traded to Dallas – immediately the Coaching staff there starts crowing about his defensive intensity and what a smart defender he is….
My point is – maybe it’s not the players……
He's "delightfully cranky"
Deshawn still gave up a ton of open shots....
He was good at moving his feet…
He was good at keeping his opponent out of the paint.
In Washington, he was terrible at contesting shots…. as are all of the Wizards players, past and present….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I didn't actually listed to the video
before posting my comment below (shame on me). But based on what you said that is pretty specific and interesting.
A bunch of B.S.
This is standard theme in sports. A change of scenery and the previous regime is thrown under the bus.
Gil is just illustrating what a poor professional he is. Now that he is in a winning culture where more is demanded of him he tries to produce. In Washington, he WAS the Howard (i.e. Leader) of our team. And the tone he set for years has created a losing culture.
Before I read another post about Gil throwing Washington under the bus...
or saying he “wasn’t motivated” – or “didn’t try”…..
Everyone please re-read the article…
The writer, Zach Mccann is putting forth opinion as to why Arenas is better in Orlando.
“lazy habits from his days in Washington.”
“Now he’s more motivated”
Those are quotes by ZACH – not by Arenas. Those are his opinions why Arenas didn’t play good defense in Washington.
Now – listen again to what Arenas actually says in the interview.
He says the defensive schemes are different in Orlando.
In Washington, they were told to protect the paint.
In Orlando, they are told to run opponents off their “comfortable shots” and don’t worry about getting beat….
I’ve watched Orlando play, and Arenas is playing completely differently than when he was in Washington. He is up in the opponent’s grill. He gets beat…. He gets beat plenty on drives…. but he doesn’t give up ANY open shots.
He's "delightfully cranky"
The Contra view is that Gilbert always sucked on D when he was here, even when we had Haywood, also a very good (though not Dwight-great) interior defender. Why? I don’t think it were the coaching staffs who could not teach defense. The evidence in support of this view is Gilbert’s years of suckitude, through several coaches. So yeah, you can throw the current coaching staff under the bus, too, if you like, but I would choose not to do that, based on this one fan’s impressions. The writer of the article also wrote that it has to do with Gilbert’s “motivation,” but that’s just another impression that may not be correct. The debate goes on.
Whether Haywood was here or not
As Rook says, the coaches were
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jan 6, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
A difference in philosophy
It sounds like the Magic have a similar defensive philosophy to the Spurs — defend the three-point line and defend the rim, and make teams score by hitting mid-range jump shots. Both teams have the personnel to carry out this strategy effectively (having a smart, effective shotblocker like Duncan or Howard to protect the rim). It’s nice to think that a fully-realized JaVale McGee could offer a similar presence.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
Although I think there is something to the notion that other teams/coaches have better defensive philosophies than perhaps Flip and certainly Eddie Jordan, the big difference here is that winning teams like Orlando, the Spurs, etc. are fully committed to great defense, and if you don’t defend, you sit the bench. When was the last time a Wizards coach benched a very good offensive player because of his poor defense? The last time I can remember is when Eddie Jordan pulled Jamison from the starting lineup for a game or two years ago.
Im really upset Caron got hurt this year....he was really outplaying Gillie this year.
It seems like the only games Gil has played well in for the Magic are the blowout wins.
Im mostly saying that from checking the box scores…ive only seen Gil play for them 3 times.
…or when gil plays well…they blow teams away
by les boulez bomber on Jan 7, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
My BS radar is going crazy
Being rewarded for “playing hard defensively” does not equal being a good defender.
Letting guys drive on your center does not equal playing good defense. For most teams, this plan would just lead to your center being in foul trouble every game.
This is just a bit too far-fetched to believe, but I haven’t watched him play in Orlando yet. And KG once told me that aaannnyyyythhiiinnng iiissss ppoossssiiibbbbllllleeee!
"Be patient or be a Heat fan" - MR
So proud of our Gil!
Arenas is the one player I want redemption for more than any Artest, Hill, or whoever else you can think of. Keep doing your thing Gil!!!
Dwight Howard
Playing with 2X NBA defensive player of the year usually has a way of upping your defensive game. Kind of like how Steve Nash inflates the offensive output of anyone that plays with him.
Are we expecting too much from McGee to play like Dwight Howard?
And the above quote re Gil’s defence came after the game aginst Warriors on monday.
But the next game against the Bucks, Gil didn’t play well. So nothing changes drastically.
“I didn’t think he played well tonight, at either end [of the court],” Van Gundy said of one of the team’s newest additions.
Does it come down to coaching?
Should the Wiz inherit more of a ‘defensive-minded’ coach in the mold of Avery, Carlisle, Thibadeoux (sp?) etc?
Again is it harder to teach “D” than “O”?
What we are talking about is giving Javale a lot more responsibility.
I don’t know if Javale is capable of anchoring a defense and that is what we are talking about when it comes down to it. Javale is often in foul trouble, as it is, and foul trouble for your C is one of the problems that allowing men easier access to the lane presents. Do his blocks per game actually end up going down as a result of constant foul trouble, due to this strategy?
From the other side of the argument, I think Javale may embrace more responsibility. Maybe his coach showing some trust for once, could influence him to actually listen to Flip’s pleads(they are probably pleads at this point right?). And maybe this would simply help Javale find a reason to get better. It might show him that he is not at that Dwight Howard level yet, and that he actually can improve some more.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
by returnofswagger on Jan 7, 2011 12:20 AM EST reply actions
I agree with the comments that howard makes everyone better. thats what great players do and he is inarguably top 5 in the league. and arenas has never and is not a defensive force. the bum knee will keep that from ever changing. but it does sound like he is only being asked to prevent three point shots. and given that limited focus, he will be a better “defender”.
now as far as comparing mcgee and translating that defense to us. forget it with him right now. mcgee is a horrible defender, a sieve that is out of position often and has a long way to go to understand the game. shot blocking as defense is a joke at the nba level. if you are a skinny shot blocker they will go through you in the nba, not over you, go to the line and foul you out. and if you have to get the ball off the blocked shot to actually stop the offense- which is nothing more than a steal! thats a little harsh because there is some benefit to alter a shot, but my point is the best way to protect the paint is to occupy it, not block a shot once it is in the air.
AND i do hope and think jvm will improve over time. though he hasnt shown the commitment to be great one day yet.
by les boulez bomber on Jan 7, 2011 9:05 AM EST reply actions
yes…and all of it does seem to point to defensive coaching philosopy. and i think they are right. protect the paint and dont give up open, uncontested threes and force them into a mid range jump shot game. you cant win with that offensive strategy and it is the best defensive strategy to implement
by les boulez bomber on Jan 7, 2011 9:07 AM EST reply actions
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