JaVale McGee in the Slam Dunk Contest is a good thing
by Mike Prada on Jan 5, 2011 12:06 PM EST
in Player Analysis
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PrintI'm excited that JaVale McGee has been selected to participate in the 2011 NBA Slam Dunk contest (which he confirmed here). I like seeing my favorite teams' players showcased on All-Star Saturday Night, which remains one of my favorite three hours of television. It's fun, it's exciting and it's entertaining. Our franchise has never had any player in the Dunk Contest, and we haven't been represented in any Saturday Night competition since 2007. I think it's cool JaVale has broken both of those streaks.
But I realize that there will many who take the opposite approach to this news, because of the "style over substance" thing. The concern is that McGee will go for even more highlight plays, encouraged by the NBA's "enabling" of them with this honor. In fact, Craig Stouffer of the Washington Examiner has already thrown out this angle with a practice anecdote of McGee failing to box out.
While there's little doubt that the third-year center is one of the most exciting and athletic 7-footers in the league, this is the kind of move that reinforces habits the Wizards are desperate to break and that continue to hold McGee's development back.
Stouffer goes on to describe a scene where McGee lets Cartier Martin beat him for a tip-in, then takes the ball down the court, feeds Yi Jianlian for a layup, then pounds his chest. Randy Wittman stared at McGee and told him sarcastically that probably should "just stay out of rebounding drills."
The anecdote is very concerning, and I'm happy someone wrote about it, but I don't see the connection to the dunk contest. This is where I think the "style vs. substance" concerns go too far.
I've yet to hear any really good argument about why competing in the dunk contest and becoming a more fundamentally-sound player are mutually exclusive. Frankly, they're not. Most of the players who compete in a dunk contest are also players who improve, work hard and are students of the game. The argument that their bad habits are somehow "encouraged" by a dunk contest doesn't really hold water.
For one thing, players don't practice their dunks during the main part of practice. All those stories you hear about these guys choreographic these elaborate routines to get the crowd pumped up? They tend to happen after practice ends, or during free time. There's traditionally a period where the players mill around after the practice ends before changing and (if applicable) talking to the media. That's when the famous Gilbert Arenas/DeShawn Stevenson shooting contest happened, and it's usually when practicing dunks happens. Therefore, it's not like JaVale has to take all this time previously allocated to practice and instead devoting it to preparing for the dunk contest. He, like all other participants competing in the Dunk Contest, can do both.
So really, it comes down to a mindset thing, and here's where I depart from the organization's thinking if they make too big a deal out of him being picked. Instead of worrying about whether McGee's bad habits will be enabled, work even harder to fix those bad habits. Instead of equating style with bad play, explain and show to him what good style plays are and what bad style plays are. Explain to him that you're happy that he's in the Dunk Contest, but that you want to make sure it doesn't detract from getting better. Don't create a false dichotomy between substance and style; explain what good style is and work on the substance part.
Really, it all boils down to this point: the Wizards had to know McGee was a project when they drafted him, so treat him like one, even in year 3. There will be bumps and frustrations along the way, and feelings will sometimes need to be hurt.
But don't get to the point where you're potentially annoyed that he was selected to be in the Dunk Contest. Considering his combination of size and athleticism, there was a strong possibility it was going to happen anyway.
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It's the dunk contest, for pete's sake
Saying that participating in the dunk contest rewards style over substance is like saying that being selected to the all-star team rewards offense over defense. It’s just a showcase for a particular skill, nothing more or less. There is no rebounding contest…..
Totally
Heck, all of the greats competed in it, it’s not like it kept MJ from developing.
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by pantslessyoda1 on Jan 5, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
It's also important to consider the potential that he might benefit from this experience
First let me say that I agree with Seewhite, it is just a dunk contest. Often time players who participate in their sport’s All-Star weekend will often mention that they want to participate every year. They get “bitten” by the bug, so to speak. He may decide that he wants to focus and participate in the All-Star game next year. And just by participating in the weekend’s events provides him with the opportunity – if he chooses to take it – to pick the brains of some of the best players in the league.
Yes, it is possible that JaVale could let this “honor” go to his head and become solely focused on style plays. It is possible but highly unlikely. When asked, JaVale has said the right things. He has said that he wanted to focus on rebounding and defense because he is tired of the coaches yelling at him about it. Someone enamored with style over substance would probably brush those comments off. On the opposite end of the spectrum, it is also possible that he will get bit by the bug to want to get better so that he is included in the main event. While this is likely more possible, the results will not likely be seen overnight (in any meaningful way).
My hope is similar to what Mike wrote, that the team congratulates him for the invitation but then focuses on working with him to clearly illustrate style vs substance plays. And works with him repeatedly on the substance plays they want him to improve on.
Good luck to him in the dunk contest, in recent history Center’s rarely win the contest. Howard is the last Center that I can recall winning.
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
My first thought is it can/should be a good thing, too
If someone’s smart about it, this can be a really good tool to illustrate the difference between style and substance, and when each is appropriate.
In any respect, I certainly don’t think it can hurt – how much more style over substance could JaVale get, anyway? ;)
Here is What Bugs Me
When JaVale’s name was added to the All-Star ballot, this is how he responded according to Craig Stouffer:
Since his name appeared somewhat surprisingly three games and seven days ago, the third-year Wizards center has dramatically transformed his game, replacing his conspicuously athletic but often frustratingly inconsistent performances with renewed persistence, focus and high energy around the basket.
A good thing, right? Except why did it take an All-Star ballot appearance to in order for JaVale to motivate himself to play better? Wouldn’t he want to be a better player even if his name wasn’t on the ballot? In that same article, Stouffer quotes what you paraphrased from JaVale above:
“It’s just tired of Coach telling me I’m not rebounding,” said McGee, who needed a quarter and a half to get his third straight double-double Tuesday against Philadelphia. “I just don’t want to get yelled at anymore. That’s all I’m trying to do.”
You hear this and think, “he’s saying the right things.” I read it and think, “why in the world don’t you want to rebound regardless of whether or not the coach is yelling at you?” It reminds me of that line in Office Space:
Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That’s my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.
So JaVale is basically motivated only by the desire to not be hassled, and you think that’s a good thing? What happens if he’s not on the ballot next season, is he going to go back to just the style and forget the substance?
Normally, I would say that the dunk contest shouldn’t matter for a player still developing his fundamentals. But for a head-case like JaVale, I’m worried that he’s going to overreact to this and think he has to make amazing dunks every time he catches a pass on the fast break. If he does, it will lead to a lot more of this.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Any motivation is good motivation is my book.
Who cares where his drive is coming from as long as it’s there?
Because Silly Motivating Factors Can Easily Disappear
Flip is constantly in his ear now, so JaVale rebounds. What happens if Flip gets fired and replaced with a “players coach”? Will JaVale stop rebounding? What if JaVale doesn’t make the All-Star ballot next season? Will he stop trying to improve his game? JaVale should base his motivation on things that will remain constant – to win a championship. Once that goal is met, it can then quickly change to – to win a championship again. That’s all I really care about fundamentally. I think that most players only care about that fundamentally too. I’m not certain that JaVale is one of those players.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Flip IS a player's coach.
He just singles out 1-2 young guys and rips them all year, every single vet gets a pass in every single instance under Flip.
Blatche Doesn't Get a Pass
And we don’t always hear what Flip says to everybody else, probably because most vets listen and don’t make a big issue out of the criticisms.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Like when he told AJ not to shoot so many 3s
And AJ responded by telling a reporter he’d do whatever he wanted, then took seven 3s that night. That kind of vet response?
I do think Blatche has gotten a pass of late too
I don't know if you missed this
but Flip basically called Blatche out of shape in practice yesterday. I’m not sure how much more criticism is warranted at the moment.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I took that to be more broken foot related
as in, he’s been a step behind because of….
I think he;s been easier on AB than he was last season, which is interesting considering AB balled out last season. Maybe he needs some more tough love
Ideally, yes
You wish he’d just love rebounding, be motivated all the time, etc. No question.
But as a coach and an organization, your job is to motivate people who may not be easy to motivate. If they didn’t want to get themselves into this, they shouldn’t have picked him.
And if they thought they wouldn’t have to reach this crossroads with the dunk contest, they’re crazy.
Of Course Flip is Right to Motivate JaVale This Way
I’m not critiquing Flip. I would hope that any coach would yell at their players if they don’t box out, don’t rotate on defense, and jump on every pump fake. But I’m not convinced that every coach will yell at JaVale, and I don’t know who might be coaching this team down the road. If JaVale’s only motivation is to not be yelled at, then God forbid we ever hire a coach that won’t yell at JaVale for fear of damaging his psyche.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Well, of course, motivation doesn't come in one act
It’s a whole strategy of sticks and carrots that you have to figure out how to balance based on the player. I don’t have a problem with Flip yelling him if he thinks it’s right. Like I mentioned in the post, sometimes, feelings have to be hurt. I just don’t see enough carrots in there either, and maybe that’s sapping JaVale’s spirit.
The Carrot Should Be Winning a Championship
Is it that much to ask that players make that their ultimate goal, and devote themselves to doing things the right way because that is the best way to achieve it?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
What % of people do their job to the absolute best of their ability
at all times? No reason to expect athletes to be different right?
All I'm saying is
If JaVale is saying stuff like that, it’s a reflection on JaVale and Flip and everyone, not just JaVale.
If the organization is seriously worried about his mentality in a friggin dunk contest, they need to try harder to motivate him, because a dunk contest really shouldn’t be a worry. (I don’t know if they are or whether that’s a Stouffer inference).
If the organization has failed in properly motivating him, they shouldn’t have picked him in the first place, because they should have figured out he didn’t have the mental makeup to be what they wanted him to be.
I wonder
I’m glad that Stouffer published the anecdote, because since I’m a bit biased on JaVale (as he drives me up the wall sometimes), I have consistently seen the same stuff in practice which gets him pulled in games. Now you can’t pull a guy in practice, especially in front of the media, but no amount of admonishing seems to be changing habits re: offensive possessions and proper positioning.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
The Best Players Don't Need Their Coaches to Motivate Them
But I get your point. There will always be some players on even championship teams that need motivating. Unfortunately, JaVale is one of those players. Therefore, he will never be great.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
That's Different
Pointing out mistakes in a player’s approach to the game is a completely different animal than trying to motivate a player. Does Phil have to worry that reminding Kobe to not take so many shots will hurt his feelings? Does Phil have to remind Kobe that if he doesn’t box out, his team will have a harder time winning?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Maybe
An issue we haven’t addressed is that Point A doesn’t necessarily lead to Point B.
That is – it hasn’t been explained properly how doing some of the things that Flip requires leads to winning. Remember, he does supposedly have the league’s most convoluted playbook.
This of course is playing Devil’s Advocate.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Right
Where do we separate motivation and tactics? For example, is JaVale a bad defensive rebounder because he doesn’t try, or because he doesn’t have good defensive rebounding skills and doesn’t understand leverage and the like? It’s a combination.
Who says Javale isnt motivated?
He’s the most active player on the team when he’s on the floor. Him needing to be told to focus on boxing out is pointing out a mistake in his approach to the game. It’s not like he is sleepwalking when he isnt boxing out, he’s actively doing something else
The Point Is
When Kobe is told to stop taking so many shots, he listens because he knows that Phil Jackson is right. Then the Lakers go on to win another championship.
When JaVale is told to box out, he doesn’t listen to his coach, because he possibly doesn’t think his coach is right, because he is motivated by things like being on the All-Star ballot and making the slam dunk contest. What does JaVale care if the Wizards ever win a championship? Just as long as he continues to make ESPN’s Top Plays, it really doesn’t matter to him.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Does Kobe listen though?
I mean, he did go 6-24 in Game 7 and had some awful plays…
Also, Kobe is older. When Kobe was younger, he didn’t always listen and it was a chore for Phil. It’s all part of the process.
This is a great point
The problem is that Kobe Bryant also knew at a young age that he was one of the best players in the league. While JaVale McGee is a project center.
I also agree that there are not enough carrots lying around the Verizon Center lately, but we could just as easily say that the problem is the organization should not have drafted so many players that needed critical upgrades to certain facets of their skillsets. I think it’s great what Flip has done with Nick Young. I don’t think that the same work can transfer to Blatche or McGee because both need to do so much more on the defensive end that it is almost impossible to break their game down the way Saunders did with Young.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I think you're right about this too
It’s something you have to think about as an organization. If you don’t think you can develop your projects, don’t draft them. Know your own limitations.
I Remember That Game
Although Kobe shot poorly, I don’t remember any particularly bad plays from him. But I’ll take your word for it, since I don’t remember his play especially.
Still, do you ever question Kobe’s desire to win a championship? To constantly improve his game, not just because Phil tells him to?
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Really?
Are we really putting Kobe and JaVale in the same conversation when it comes to motivation? Really? The only person playing right now that is even in the same breathe as Kobe, when it comes to that, is KG. That’s the whole list.
I'm not sure what you mean here
Just because McGee is doing something, doesn’t mean it isn’t the wrong thing. That is just flawed thinking.
As an example, let’s use my biggest McGee pet peeve play and the one that often gets him yelled at or pulled by the coaching staff.
A wing or guard takes the ball in the corner and drives to the basket. Instead of standing still and putting his hands up, JaVale McGee let’s the player go by him and tries to block the ball from behind. Now the results probably look something like this:
20% Block
20% Goaltending
20% Foul
20% And 1
20% Dish to open man for easy bucket
Yes the block is super awesome. The problem is the other 80%
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
What I mean is Javale is motivated.
He’s not a lazy player and he’s definitely improved from last season to this season. Him not taking 100% direction from his coach is not a indication he’s not motivated. Or that he doesnt want to win a championship.
I’m not sure why it’s assumed that all the blocks are because he wants to be on ESPN. Maybe he TRULY believes he can swat all those shots? Lord knows he alters or blocks a ton of them. Perhaps it will take time for him to mature and play more efficiently.
No different than a young gunner who used to try and score 40 every night maturing as a player
Again you are changing the argument
I don’t think anyone has called McGee lazy in this thread. I think the question is how you educate the player to not gamble as much and play a sounder game fundamentally while still rewarding him for the things he does well.
Flip has already said to the media that JaVale “has to learn that he doesn’t have to try and block every shot.” How much clearer can that instruction be?
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I hate to stay with the Kobe example as
Kobe and Javale basically shouldnt be talked of together….but how is Javale going for blocks different than Kobe jacking up ill-advised shots in a loss?
Because Kobe is also a top defender?
and again one has a carrot and a stick problem. How many times has Bryant won games by jacking shots? Wasn’t his behavior rewarded when the team was awful? It was all about adjustment. Kobe had to learn to break his bad habits when Pau got to town because it was no longer up to him to win the game single handedly.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Also, I'm not sure why you want a player
who doesn’t listen 100% to his coach and isn’t Kobe Bryant.
The problem with the Wizards has been the culture of freelancing that has been allowed to foster itself within the team Arenas, Butler, and Jamison did it. Saunders has been IMPLORING his players to break that cycle all year by “trusting the system.” They are NOT a good enough team to be playing out of the system and freelancing all the time.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Should they be sold on his zone?
I’m willing to bet most coaches around the league arent. That said, they need to do whatever he tells them obviously.
Most of the Time
But Sean makes a great point that our players aren’t talented enough to only trust the system most of the time and still win.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Then Flip isn't the right coach for the team
and they need to bring in someone like Scott Skiles.
Or the Wizards players need to buy in TOTALLY to the system. And those players who don’t need to leave.
There is no halfway on a team that doesn’t have a trancendent talents besides the guy learning to play PG.
How far does San Antonio go each year if they break Pops system? The whole point of why the Spurs can keep cycling in castoffs and retread and make them successful is that they play within the system and don’t break it. Matt Bonner is no different from Jason Kapono. The difference is that the San Antonio players always work towards executing the system.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Pops has 4 Rings
and just this year switched to an offensively oriented system to adjust to Timmy’s advancing age (i think).
Flip has a career of “almost but not quite” and according to Phil is running the exact same stuff he did in Minnesota.
Maybe there;s a reason the players arent buying in….but no excuses, they should. He’s the coach
you make a valid point
and one of the reasons I remain concerned is that Grunfeld’s drafting strategy never matches his coach’s system. Why draft these hybrid weirdo players like Blatche and McGee and then bring in a guy who is as orthodox in his teaching as Flip? Why not go after someone like Nellie (but not Nellie) who can think out of the box a bit.
Alternatively, why continue to bring in fundamentals guys like Songalia for Eddie Jordan? Or initially low IQ players like Blatche and Young to play a system like the Princeton?
It never makes much sense.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
It's just as likely he'd play better under a different coach.
Constantly berating him as Flip often does may work with some people and not others.
Apparently
You missed the part where JaVale said his only motivation is to not be yelled at. Quote:
“I just don’t want to get yelled at anymore. That’s all I’m trying to do.”
Emphasis mine. Take away the constant beration, lose the motivation.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
I wouldnt assume you actually know the guy or his full motivations
based on that one sentence he told a reporter.
It was also in part said in jest...
I remember being there that night that he said that… and while it was true, he also seemed to say somewhat as a joke.
Click this link to check the video… the question/answer comes at about the 1:12 minute mark.
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
I Hope You're Right
But it would really make me feel a lot better if instead of joking, he would acknowledge that listening to his coach will not only make him a better player, but it will help the team win more. Instead I hear him saying things like he still wants to jump a lot on pump fakes, despite what the coach tells him, because that makes the other teams fear him more. For once I would like him to say, “I gotta stop hurting my team by biting on all of those pump fakes!”
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Javale might just be athletic enough to win.
I’m wishing him luck, too. I can remember the year the Tim Legler competed in the three point contest and it was exciting just to see someone from the team involved in the weekend competition. And I agree about him getting the “bug” of getting to the all-star weekend every year. Similar to his team USA invitation. Let him see how other greats are doing it, not just how Andray Blatche is doing it.
I wonder if any of the Wizards will come to support
or be involved in his dunk routine. Or if he will have a friend on another team lob him the ball during one of his dunks.
If he did, I couldn’t personally think of a better person than John Wall. Particularly if he can manage to make the Rookie/Sophomore game – which I imagine he will.
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
As long as Wall is healthy and wants to play
He will be in the Rookie/Soph game, no question. The question is if Blake Griffin will join Wall on the rookie team or be playing in the actual all star game.
Or the with the Sophs
Cuz, let’s be honest, the kid ain’t a rookie.
My concerns
1. I’m worried McGee will look at the invitation itself as a validation of his overall basketball skills. There are no “boxing out” contests…. No “fundamental positional defense” contests. I was worried about his selection to practice with the US Squad… I am worried that this dunk contest invitation is just putting another log on the fire – where JaVale can say things like “if I get my 10 rebounds”, or I scored 15 points – so I must be good….
2. One of JaVale’s teammates deserves the invitation more. Sure, Javale can jump…. but what has he ever shown that would indicate he has any creativity. Jumping from the foul line won’t cut it. A tomahawk slam, no matter how high he gets – just won’t impress. On the other hand, we’ve seen Nick Young do some incredible dunks… Dunk contest worthy dunks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTh1RPIVAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_iLAmLaqY
He's "delightfully cranky"
To be fair here Rook
I think McGee’s highlights are a good second behind Blake Griffins’.
Rick Kambla (or whatever his name is) from nba tv is going nuts about him all the time as well. Dude got sick hops.
Yes Nick is a good dunker but so are a lot of 6’5 tot 6’8 guards/wings. What sets McGee apart is that he is 7’1 with the hops of 6’6 dunker. He is a true freak of nature.
"If you don't shoot, you can't score"
Johan Cruijff
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jan 5, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
So if Javale averaged 15/10 he's not good til...you say so? ;)
Was watching Memphis game last night….Marc Gasol stands around doing a whole lotta NOTHING on many possessions. Doesnt get back D, has crappy lateral movement, gets invisible at times, barely contests shots….but he does plenty of good stuff too- so does Javale. Why is Gasol someone everyone loves but Javale is the whipping boy? Is it because we actually see every single one of Mcgee’s bad plays, but mainly highlights and stats for other players?
If Gasol Was as Bad as You Say He Was
And he played for our team so that I saw him every night, I would be all over him just as harshly. I don’t have any personal animosity towards JaVale, it’s his complete lack of fundamentals that bother me.
And yes, if you got 10 rebounds but let your man score on you at will all night, then you are NOT good. The stat line doesn’t say how badly you played defense. JaVale should care about more than just his box score stats, as should every player.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
My point is the majority of players arent terrific
They do some things well, others not so well, take some plays off, bust their tales other times. Yes we should expect as much as possible from Javale (and everyone else), I’m just saying many other players are probably not as good as people seem to assume.
“And yes, if you got 10 rebounds but let your man score on you at will all night, then you are NOT good”
What if you get 15 rebounds and your man scores at will? That’s what Kevin Love does.
If That's True
Then Kevin Love is not good either. My perception of players takes both offense and defensive into account. I don’t want guys that only focus on one end of the basketball court, because those are the types of players that help a team lose in the playoffs.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
He's one of the worst defensive PF in the league.
Opposing PFs average 23pts per 48….Dray’s opponents are at 19pts per48 for comparison.
That whole entire team is awful on D
Their guards don’t rotate and Darko is a stiff. Beasley has no idea what he’s doing, for example. If Love has to help his guard on pick and roll, it leaves his man open if nobody rotates to him.
In today’s NBA, counterpart production really means very little, because defense is a team thing.
Then why is Mcgee so often singled out here for our bad D?
I see guards blow by Hinrich and Wall like they are not even there all the time…yet it’s always Javale who is supposedly at fault for not rotating, or going for a block, or whatever. Seems he catches the lion’s share of critcism if in fact it’s all a team thing.
Well, you're now arguing two separate points here
But to answer your question, your five man is usually your most important defender.
And to follow up
From observation, the big problem is that our two big men struggle at hedging and recovering, which makes the guards look bad and causes their men to do well. JaVale doesn’t do that, but he adds something because he’s so athletic that he can recover and block shots. It doesn’t mean he’s doing the right thing though.
Blatche, on the other hand…
Flip Plays a Zone Defense
It’s Wall’s and Hinrich’s responsibility to play up on the guards to take away the 3 point shot and funnel penetration into the bigs. If JaVale doesn’t meet his responsibility, then he plays bad D, period.
Defense has to be examined and the person critiquing needs to understand things like a) what defensive scheme is being used, b) what was the proper play to make for each player on defense, and c) who’s fault was it for the defensive breakdown. In JaVale’s case, he often doesn’t box out the man he is guarding, often gets backed down in the paint when his man is posting up, often bites on every pump fake his man makes, and when the guards funnel penetration into him, he would rather stand to the side and try to get a flashy block than to step in front and try to draw a charge.
I know these things because I watch games closely. I don’t pretend I can look at a few highlights of the T-Wolves and determine that Kevin Love is a terrible defender. He may be, but I simply don’t know.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
I watch the games closely too
Which is why I dont still think Javale is making the exact same mistakes he’s made in past seasons, as you apparently do.
And if defense was simply about doing the right things, any of us could be nba defenders. Just because you are standing in the correct place does not mean you are playing good D. If you are too slow to impede the guy in front of you, you are not a good defender.
I Don't Doubt You Watch Our Games Closely
But I think your judgment on Kevin Love is probably a little off. I will also admit that I am seeing some small improvements to JaVale’s fundamentals. My issue at this point is that he doesn’t seem as interested in improving that part of his game as he is in getting box score stats and making dunk contests. Because his fundamentals are still coming along at such a snail’s pace, that’s the perception I get from him. But he is getting better.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
I do think Love is a poor defender
and part and parcel to why TWolves have the worst D in the nba.
But on the other hand, I tend to appreciate how disruptive Javale is to the opponents offense when he’s doing some stuff Flip probably doesnt like. I actually think it’s a good thing for him try and get blocks early in a game and establish presence…even if it’s not technically right play to make, because it does appear to have an effect on opponents shot selection.
Of course, our defense sucks so to that extent the proof is in the pudding
Because Wall and Hinrich are more often than not in the right place
and the center is supposedly your “defensive anchor.”
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Defensive anchor
Sounds like a player that would contest/block shots after guys in front of him were beaten off the dribble.
Or Properly Rotate
And cut off the penetrating player’s lane to the basket, like most bigs can do. That forces the penetrating guard to either pass out of the lane or commit a charge, if executed properly.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
You don't remember the Fundamental Position Defense Contests of old?!?!?
I can’t believe that…they were thrilling
He did a 360 windmill after slapping the backboard in warmups for the Wiz
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
I am pleased that JaVale was asked into the Dunk Contest...
and I hope that Wall starts at point for the rookie squad too.
All-Star Weekend is a major NBA Showcase and if NBA management selects the WIzards’ two most promising players for some face time with the fans, it validates both their relevance and the team’s.
The separate issue here, and others on this site have observed it, is whether the Wizards’ coaching staff is doing the best job of managing the development of these two particular players. What has Randy WIttman ever accomplished as either a player or coach, anyway (although he is 1-0 this season, which may count for something) that permits him to snide at JaVale, who obviously needs smart coaching and not a coach’s carping.
Pushing against the same envelope, I have been very excited by the improvement that Nick Young has shown this year. How many people would now rate him behind OJ Mayo, who USC obviously preferred to Nick as the face of its team? Sadly, I think Nick’s improvement has more to do with his own increasing maturity and self-confidence, and the encouragement of fellow players like Gilbert Arenas, than it seems to do with any instruction or reinforcement he has gotten from any of the last three WIzard coaches.
The sooner Ted gives Flip and Randy a one-way ticket out of Dodge, and invests in a coach who actually enjoys teaching and watching players grow into a team, the sooner IMO we will see the type of Wizards team we yearn for.
I want to be ENTERTAINED! Go JAVALE! SHOW ME THE MONEY!
When I go to a Wizards game there are two guys I am fixed on: John Wall and Javale McGee. They are the most exciting two players on the court.
I will definitely watch the dunk contest. I hope Javale shows Power and creativity.
This is a big boom for the Washington Wizards.
Here is a 22 year old in the biggest basketball stage in the planet.
How many people in the world dream of being in a slam dunk contest, much less the greatest slam dunk contest in the world, the NBA?
GO JAVALE!
Rook and I will be there drinking PBRs. Who’s joining us?
by MR on Jan 5, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
You Had Me at Fundamentals Contest
The PBR is just the sweet cherry on top.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Nothing better ...
…than watching Tim Duncan vs. Jeff Foster in a contest of keeping the ball high on an offensive rebound as you put it back in off the glass. We could get Hubie Brown to comment about how you keep it high so little guys can’t come in and take it from you.
OK, that’s not true — it’s all better with PBR.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Jan 5, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not for nothing did Shaq dub him the Big Fundamental
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Jan 5, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly think that he can possibly beat Blake Griffin.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Creative don't matter when you jump like that.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Jan 5, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Creativity is what the dunk contest is all about.
TNT should've treated Lebron's return to Cleveland game like 2k11 and cut the game off after the Cavs were down by 30. lol
Javale may outdunk him but he won't win.
Sincerely,
’Nique
I'm not even worried about substance over style at this point
Javale’s top 20 in the league in offensive and rebounding percentage last I checked, plus he rarely takes awful shots and has a motor on both ends of the floor. He’s not perfect, but he deserves to get a chance to cut loose after all of the work he’s done this year.
Follow me on twitter -
http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
agree 100%
Javale is 7th in the nba for rebounding amongst Centers. 15th for defensive boards which should get better but is still average. There is not ONE center in the league younger than Javale who is grabbing more boards than Javale….defensive, offensive, or combined.
Let him have some fun, nice to see a Wizard be involved in something positive and hyped up
This is not a major thing in Javale's development.
The one thing is that Javale might take the idea that he is good enough to compete in this, and let it get to his head. Encouraging the idea that he is fine how he is, and doesn’t need to improve on the “substance” stuff. In the end though, even if he was not in the dunk contest, he is what he is, and without a change in mentality, it’s what he’s going to be.
On a different note, I don’t know how much of a chance he has a against Blake. People are making an issue of creativity, but everyone is going to be giving Javale ideas. Any creative ideas Nick Young would have had, he can simply tell Javale. But I think Javale can not physically pull off some of those creative ideas.
He doesn’t have the coordination or body control. Maybe he wins by jamming on a 13-foot rim. But he doesn’t have all the tools to go behind his back and do 360’s or throwing it off of the backboard or anything like that. He can jump REALLY high though.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
It just encourages him to be more flashy
He will now be synonymous across the entire country for one thing: emphatic dunks. He will think that this is what he’s here to do. The national exposure will distract him and shift his focus away from where it should be. He’ll think to himself, “this is what the people want from me.”
I just don’t think it will benefit his ability to play NBA basketball nor will it mature him into becoming a player focused on improving his weaknesses. There’s a higher probability of it having the opposite effect, if any effect at all.
Being in a dunk contest won't make or break anything is my point
For all the reasons laid out here. And as long as it doesn’t mean anything, why not enjoy it as a fan?
I'll definitely root for him
And it’s probably much ado about nothing, it just seems like he’s being rewarded for the whole “style over substance” issue that’s been mentioned so many times.
Is there a “Box Out Your Man for God’s Sake” competition over the course of the weekend as well?
Javale is being rewarded because he is an awesome Dunker.
That is all. Why the heck is sergio ibaka in it? This all has to do with being entertaining. Go Javale!
It Shouldn't Matter
But I worry that in JaVale’s case, it does. You laid out a pretty good argument about why the dunk contest doesn’t affect players in general, Mike, but you failed to link the general to the specific in JaVale McGee. This is a player that only decided to start rebounding better because the coaches kept yelling at him. This is a player that only decided to improve his overall game once his name was added to the All-Star ballot. I see a unique mentality in JaVale that you haven’t addressed, and therefore I am not convinced by your argument that this won’t go to his head in exactly the way KellRawLive described.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
You woulda thought that watching how hard his mom had to work while he was growing up would have rubbed off on him better.
by MR on Jan 5, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I Think His Freakish Size and Athletic Ability Had the Greater Affect on His Mentality
For his entire life, JaVale has been able to make highlight plays and put up good box score numbers just by running around and jumping like crazy. That has not changed for him in the NBA, unfortunately. Why should he commit to fundamentals? He doesn’t have to rotate well on defense to get selected to the USA Team. He doesn’t have to box out anybody to get his name on the All-Star ballot. He doesn’t have to strengthen his lower-body so he doesn’t get backed down in order to be selected to the dunk contest.
Where is his motivation? Oh yeah, I forgot, his only motivation to do those things is so Flip won’t yell at him. That’s good to know.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Yeah but wasn’t his mama yelling at him all those years?
by MR on Jan 5, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Probably
But why should he listen? I listen to my mom because usually when I don’t, I learn things the hard way. Nothing has ever been that hard for JaVale, in my opinion. “OK, Mom, I get it. I should box out more. But did you see my name on the All-Star ballot! That’s pretty cool, isn’t it, Mom?”
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
he only started rebounding because Love had a 30/30 game
I mean, he even tweeted about it the night Love went off. He said he was enrolling in the Kevin Love School of Rebounding. The following game he had like 15 boards. It shows the immaturity level and a penchant for turning it on & off based upon factors that should shouldn’t be factors. Why start caring just because Love went off? It’s validation that he would rather be on ESPN than hone his craft.
Luke Scott Luke Scott Luke Scott you still my boy-Adam Jones
Or maybe he just got extra motivation?
I mean honestly, that’s like saying Michael Jordan only cared about being the best because he heard people doubting his legacy and wanted to shut them up by showing up his opponents. Why shouldn’t he pay attention to what his peers are doing?
To me it shows that he could've gone for 15 boards anytime he really wanted to
but didn’t put forth that extra effort until he saw someone else do it.
Luke Scott Luke Scott Luke Scott you still my boy-Adam Jones
Or maybe he wanted to pick up some tactics that Love uses that he can use
Like I repeated above, I don’t see how you can separate motivation and tactics.
If someone is not rebounding well, I want them to study who is rebounding the best.
I agree with ya totally
I just think it’s messed up that he uses that as a motivational tool. It’s immature to allow someone else’s actions influence you and how you go about your routine. He should have been doing it all along.
Luke Scott Luke Scott Luke Scott you still my boy-Adam Jones
Actually MJ is an interesting comparison to make
Wasn’t a large part of the “Jordan Rules” about getting MJ to buy into the triangle? Didn’t Phil have the same problem with Kobe in LA?
Maybe an issue that is isn’t being discussed is how the players are not buying into the system or refuse to adjust their games to be effective within it.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
It's just a Dunk Contest
Being in the Dunk Contest makes you want to be more flashy? If that’s the case when will the All Star game have a defense/rebound contest. Sign every Wizard’s player up.
Wow
Jesus, look at the Wizards’ page right now.
See, this is sort of what I mean by an organizational failure. If your coaches want to downplay the significance of a dunk contest because they’re worried it’ll get to JaVale’s head, then maybe they should tell whoever designed that to, um, not design something so huge.
I think all we need to do is repost
their push for Andray Blatche to be MIP.
Because that showed long term vision.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Gotta sell stuff though, Flip has no control over PR
Ernie does, but Ted is all about SELLING
Yeah that is likely the PR or marketing department… which may or may not report into Ernie. I think he is responsible for Basketball Operations, which may not include PR and/or marketing. Regardless of who they report to, if he was/is against it they would like not do it (or will take it down).
Follow me on twitter - @CJ_202SB
Funny people still call him skinny
Granted he needs to muscle up his legs some more, but in one offseason Javale transformed his upper body. He is much stronger.
Meanwhile, in 5 offseasons, Blatche…
Well you are seeing the only situation where he actually uses them.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
by returnofswagger on Jan 6, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
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