On trading Andray Blatche
by Mike Prada on Jan 3, 2011 11:30 AM EST
in Trades
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PrintAnd so, it begins. After a disappointing start to the 2010/11 season, Andray Blatche is definitely on the trading block. Reports indicated that the Wizards were "gauging interest" in trading Blatche as recently as last week, and on Sunday, we learned that the Cleveland Cavaliers may be one interested team. It's not clear what Cleveland would give up, and it's not really clear whether Cleveland's interest is serious anyway, but clearly, Blatche is on the block.
It's a very quick turn for the Wizards, who signed Blatche to a five-year contract extension just over two months ago. Something has convinced the Wizards that their faith in Blatche wasn't justified, and while we can all speculate about whether that may have been an off-court incident like the fight he had with JaVale McGee, it could very easily have to do with what they have seen on the court. Blatche's per-game averages aren't bad, but he's doing it with poor efficiency and horrendous defense. We the fans mostly seem frustrated with his lack of development after he broke out at the end of the season last year. I'm seeing a lot of "Trade Blatche NOW" comments and FanPosts, and I understand the sentiment completely. More than any other player, he's disappointed me too this year.
But the Wizards cannot make an emotional decision here. They're in a tricky spot, and they need to consider all sides of this situation before they figure out what to do. The worst thing the Wizards could do would be to trade Blatche simply out of frustration. They have to figure out whether it's the right decision going forward and try to separate their own disappointment from the decision-making as much as possible.
So what is the right decision? It's tough, but I think I would indeed trade him at this point.
There are two sides here that I think have a lot of merit. The "trade Blatche" camp seems to think that Blatche's presence is stunting the team's culture change, and as long as he is around, he will receive entitlement minutes, entitlement shots and the like. Trading Blatche may be addition by subtraction in the long run, as it'll give more minutes to hungrier players. The "keep Blatche" camp is concerned that Blatche is still relatively young (24) and is concerned about trading the only player on the roster who has something resembling a low-post game.
I think the "keep Blatche" camp is right on one thing: trading Blatche will probably make the team worse in the short term. Despite Blatche's frustrating offensive game, he is a better shot creator than any other big man on the roster. Shot creation is a valuable skill, even if it is inefficient shot creation. The ability to get your own shot causes more defenders to pay attention to you, which opens up space for your teammates. As we saw in the New Orleans game, shot creation is a major weakness with this roster, and it'll only get worse once you remove Blatche from the equation. Taking away Blatche and not bringing in a comparable shot creator means you're asking John Wall to set things up for everyone, and teams will shut that down, especially considering Wall is still a rookie learning how to play point guard in this league. There's a reason the Wizards remain a more efficient offensive team with Blatche in the game than with him on the bench.
In other words, I have a really hard time believing the Wizards will take off if they remove Blatche's "cancerous" play from the equation. It's more likely that they'll play with more energy for a couple games, then revert because they'll miss what Blatche does bring to the table.
At the same time, though, the short term doesn't really matter with this team. This is a young roster that just traded away its most frequent creator (Gilbert Arenas) because they are thinking long term. Only two teams -- Sacramento and Cleveland -- have worse records than the Wizards, and only two teams have a lower point differential. Nobody has been shy about this being a rebuild, and nobody should be.
And right now, Blatche isn't providing plays that will fit in with a winning culture. His defensive effort has been horrendous all season, and it was again in the New Orleans game. (Just check this play). His lack of individual improvement this season, at an age where most players put it all together and in a situation where he'll receive plenty of chances, is a huge concern on a team where player development is the biggest goal. We're now two months into the season, so Blatche's massive drop-off is more of a trend than an anomaly. The broken foot he suffered in the summer can't excuse the following statistical cratering.
Twenty-four year olds have bad stretches like anyone else, but almost nobody drops off as drastically as that. Keep in mind also that Blatche's numbers there are his full-season numbers in 2009/10, so we're not even comparing Blatche in 2011 to the Blatche who finally put it all together at the end of 2010. If one foot injury causes Blatche to fall off this drastically, it makes you wonder about what his work ethic really is. For a team where hard work and good process needs to be stressed, it's not productive to keep a guy who hasn't displayed good process.
For the longest time, I was in the first camp, but I think I've changed over to the second after thinking about this more. Trading Blatche may hurt in the short term, but his lack of improvement has become really concerning. I don't doubt that the Wizards will become a worse team in the short term, because Blatche can help in spite of himself with all his skills, but I'd rather have good process and bad results than bad process and good results. If the Wizards were winning, it might be different, since there are enough good habits happening elsewhere where you can isolate and minimize the impact of Blatche's bad habits, but the Wizards aren't winning.
The question then becomes: what's a fair package to take back for Blatche? As frustrating as Blatche is, he is a young-ish big man on a reasonable contract. There's no real purpose in dumping him for nothing, especially two months after he got a contract extension. That'll really expose the Wizards as the sucker in the room, and I think they know that and are being careful. But I also don't think they should be all that concerned about getting "equal value" either. Expiring contracts and a young player is fine. A draft pick is better. A role player, if he's young and has something of value to provide, potentially works too, depending on the player coming back.
Many of you are concerned about another Chris Webber or Ben Wallace situation, but I think these situations are different. The Webber trade was an issue because we got a player past his prime in return who we promptly gave a huge extension. The Wallace situation was bad because Wallace was very productive in limited minutes, as opposed to Blatche, who has been unproductive in heavy minutes. Productive per-minute players tend to remain productive per-minute players when they get more minutes, and regardless, we never really gave Wallace a chance to demonstrate if he'd follow the trend here. We know very well what Andray Blatche is at this point, and while he might break out elsewhere, he's not breaking out here.
At the end of the day, it looks awful to trade Blatche now, but that doesn't mean the Wizards should pass on doing it. They have to think about it carefully and not trade him for peanuts, but if a halfway decent offer comes along, they should jump on it. The long-term benefits at this point seem to outweigh the short-term cost.
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"Selling low" is my only reservation at this point
And with Blatche playing the way he is now, his trade value looks pretty low. If you’re going to make a change that will have negative consequences for the team in the short term, though, there’s no time like the present.
This wouldn't be the Wizards if we didn't sell low.
It’s Ernie’s trademark. Panic and take the 1st deal offered. Boobie Gibson & Ryan Hollins for Blatche? Sounds about right to me.
I'd actually do that if I were the Wiz if only because it saves a lot of money in the short term.
Not sure if the Cavs do that though.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Then again.....
….I don’t know if the Wiz would do this either. Tough times this rebuilding thing.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Don't sell low Wiz, please.
Sometimes the best move is no move.
If they want to trade him its their call (I don’t agree, but that’s just me), but the way its going, they seem to be minimizing the return they will get.
I'm not against trading him if we get fair value.
So what should we look for?
We don’t need a PG.
We aren’t going to get a decent C for him.
Trading Blatche leaves us thin at PF, but I’m not sure why somebody trades their PF for ours.
We seem fairly set at SF.
So I guess if a good young SG came along I’d listen.
Or picks. Top 10.
I’m dead set against trading him away for very little. I’d rather put him on the bench and make him sweat for minutes. I’d rather wait and see if we get back next year’s guy than trade him for less than a good value. I don’t see why we’re in any hurry.
I would agree that there's no reason to rush this
Because I feel like that would be an emotional decision. But I personally am not as worried about positions as much as getting some assets back. A young player anywhere, a first-round pick, etc.
A straight salary dump seems like a bad idea.
What about if that straight salary dump is to Cleveland?
They have that huge traded player exception (from the LeBron trade)….
They could trade a 2012 first round pick (they cannot give us their 2011, since we got their 2010 first rounder in the Jamison trade, and you cannot trade consecutive year’s first round picks)
Andray Blatche for Cleveland’s unprotected 2012 first round draft pick. – I like this trade…. It leaves the Wizards a bit thin at PF , but it would greatly accelerate the development of Booker and Seraphin. Cleveland would have to cut someone – ironically, it would probably be Alonzo Gee.
Assuming Cleveland wouldn’t trade Blatche for Varejao (which would be my preferred trade) – the other options are:
JJ Hickson & Boobie Gibson for Blatche – I don’t like this trade…. Don’t particularly like Hickson’s defense (although he’s light years better than Blatche)…. and Gibson is an undersized Shooting Guard – everyone here knows I don’t like undersized SG’s. Besides, I don’t like typing “Boobie”…..
Blatche for Moon and Hollins – straight salary dump… I don’t like this one either….
He's "delightfully cranky"
Don't think any team would ever trade a completely unprotected pick for anyone
The last time someone did was with the Knicks and Utah.
Wasn't that pick from Phoenix and eventually had protections that wore down?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The rule about trading consecutive draft picks.....
is called the Ted Stepien Rule and only concerns future picks; it doesn’t account for what happened last year.
Larry Coon:
Teams are restricted from trading away future first round draft picks in consecutive years. This is known as the “Ted Stepien Rule.” Stepien owned the Cavs from 1980-83, and made a series of bad trades (such as the above-mentioned 1982 trade) that cost the Cavs several years’ first round picks. As a result of Stepien’s ineptitude, teams are now prevented from making trades which might leave them without a first round pick in consecutive future years.
The Stepien rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 2005-06 season, then a team can trade its 2006 first round pick without regard to whether they had traded their 2005 pick, since their 2005 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can’t trade away both their 2006 and 2007 picks, since both are future picks. Teams sometimes work around this rule by trading first round picks in alternate years.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q74
My understanding is that this can also be worked around by teams that have acquired picks from other teams to compensate what they’re sending out, but I’m unable to find anything to back that up (in other words, I think Phoenix could trade their 2011 and2012 picks because they have the Orlando 1st, but I’m not sure).
All of that is rather academic as there’s no way Cleveland is kicking us one of their own top lottery picks for Dray, but they do have a bevy of assorted other picks:
2011 second round draft pick from Oklahoma City
Oklahoma City’s own 2011 2nd round pick to Cleveland via Miami (top 40 protected in the 2011 Draft, top 40 protected in the 2012 draft and unprotected in the 2013 draft). [Miami – Oklahoma City, 6/24/2010 and then Cleveland – Miami, 7/9/2010]
2012 first round draft pick from Miami
Cleveland has the right to swap their own 2012 1st round pick with Miami’s own 1st round pick. [Cleveland – Miami, 7/9/2010]
2012 second round draft pick from New Orleans
New Orleans’ own 2012 2nd round pick to Cleveland via Miami. [Miami – New Orleans, 6/25/2009 and then Cleveland – Miami, 7/9/2010]
2013 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami’s own 2013 1st round draft pick to Cleveland (top-10 protected in the 2013 Draft, top-10 protected in 2014, and unprotected in the 2015 Draft.) [Cleveland – Miami, 7/9/2010]
2013 second round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota’s own 2013 2nd round pick to Cleveland. [Cleveland – Minnesota, 7/26/2010]
2015 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami’s own 1st round draft pick to Cleveland in the "First Allowable Draft" (top 10 protected until the 2017 draft at which it will be unprotected in the 2017 draft). The First Allowable draft shall be the draft that occurs two years following the year in which Miami satisfies its first obligation to convey a future first round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers. [Cleveland – Miami, 7/9/2010]
how did Miami give them consecutive first round picks?
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
More than likely they will try and give us Antawn back
If we take that deal, may have to find another team to root for…
by TheRealBigMike on Jan 3, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
How about a salary dump that allows the Wiz to get rid of Lewis?
Yao Ming + Jarred Jeffries for Blatche + Rashard Lewis…..
Houston gets a guy that can play Center next to Scola – and a big SF… Houston could then match up very well against the Laker’s huge front line (Blatche 6’11", Scola 6’9", Lewis 6’10" – with 7’ Brad Miller and 6’10" Jordan Hill on the bench)…
The Wizards get a massive expiring contract – of which 8 million is covered by insurance. (Doesn’t help the cap situation, but it gives Ted $8 Million in his pocket).
He's "delightfully cranky"
No way Houston includes Yao
but I wouldn’t mind seeing Jordan Hill (or Patterson?) come back to Washington in a deal with Jeffries for Blatche + Yi.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
houston already has about 10 power forwards, why would they want 2 more?
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Because Blatche can play Center
a position of need for Houston – and Rashard Lewis can play SF – another position of need.
He's "delightfully cranky"
Can you really see Blatche coming off the bench?
If you’re worried about his locker room influence now, just wait until he’s whining about minutes.
Re: “why the hurry?”, I think the team wants to know where it’s going to be at in another year, and how it’s going to get there. If this is the rebuild, let’s rebuild.
I'm not worried about his locker room influence.
I think this team now has enough no nonsense professional veterans that Blatche in the locker room doesn’t worry me. On the contrary I think it would throw a little spark in the team.
Benching him to start Howard and Lewis? I don’t see that being an off court issue…although it solves few if any on court issues besides hustle.
And I think we’ll be rebuilding for several more years so I’m in no hurry to dump players who might be productive.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Blatche in the locker room doesn’t worry me.
If you look at the rest of the team… and the players that they have obtained (Hinrich, Howard, Lewis, John Wall, Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin, Hilton Armstrong) – They all are conducting themselves in a professional manner… Serious about getting better. Serious about basketball. Serious about playing defense. Serious about playing every night with effort and desire….
Even the previously effervescent Nick Young has been more serious this year. He’s shown a commitment to defense – and playing basketball the right way…. Less of the incessant grinning and playing around – and more of an intense competitor.
Ted and Ernie are setting a tone for this team.. They are trying to change the culture of the team.
The Wizards used to be a team filled with loosey-goosey pranksters and jokers – As fun to watch off court as on. A team that could score 110 points a night – but couldn’t defend a lick. A Playoff team – but not good enough, not competitive enough, not professional enough to win a Championship.
The kind of players they are getting now are completely different…. More professional. Hard working. Defensive minded. Why keep the last knucklehead?
He's "delightfully cranky"
by Rook6980 on Jan 3, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with all of those points
And really, how much worse can we get? It’s not as if we are doing anything with Blatche on the court, so if the Wizards front office think that Blatche doesn’t have his head right, why keep him around? Yeah, it will be frustrating to watch the team for the rest of the year struggle to score points, but we struggle to score points now. Blatche just isn’t bringing it like he did last year, for whatever reason. Maybe time for him to go.
Why keep the last knucklehead?
Well first of all I don’t think he’s the last knucklehead. And as a minor aside I don’t think the team of the past was filled with pranksters and jokesters nor do I think they weren’t professional enough.
I agree with changing the culture. Very very much so. I guess I’m willing to wait to see if he can straighten out. I don’t see the harm in keeping him all year and seeing if our investment in Howard, Hinrich, and Lewis pans out by rubbing off on Blatche.
If we had a crystal ball that showed that he was going to be the same player now that he’d be for the rest of his career then I would trade him for a salary dump this minute.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Trading Blatch now = Knee Jerk reaction
with the emphasis on Jerk.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
by GeoFly on Jan 3, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's the same player he's been his whole career...
Except for a 32-game, contract-fueled improvement at the end of last season. He’s had plenty of time to straighten out.
I actually disagree with this
I was going to mention this in practice notes but prefer to leave those posts with little or no personal commentary, but I think Blatche is working hard, I just think he is a player who has never suffered this type of injury before and has no idea what to do when his body betrays him. Also, to be perfectly fair to Blatche, he has cut his weight down since he came back from injury. The Blatche from the first practices I witnessed was MUCH MUCH heavier than the Blatche I saw today.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Problem is....
it might be a lighter weight Blatche, but he’s got the same head on his shoulders he always had…..
He's "delightfully cranky"
Again
If the Wizards are actively shopping Blatche because of off court issues, well than I can understand that. He certainly has more than his fair share of public embarrassment.
But I think we need to be careful of excoriating a player who rushed back from a foot injury and who has missed several games this year due to other injuries.
Do I like Blatche’s decision making in games this season? No. Do I think his play bears a healthy amount of criticism? Yes.
But for once I would like a player to be FULLY healthy before we decided that it was time to shop him out of town.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
We should be looking for any young asset, regardless of position.
Any draft picks or young promising players will just be gravy. We need to find a trading partner that needs some scoring from the forward position. Although we know all too well Dray’s defensive efforts, a lot of teams around the league see him as a very valuable asset at the 4 position. Ideally I think we should try to move Dray and Thornton. Big Al will be getting less and less minutes by the game so we should sell before his value gets any lower. Again, we need to stick with the rebuilding plan, we do not need a 30 year old Varejao on this roster.
by PhenomenalSwag on Jan 3, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if they're "set" at SF.
Sure Lewis has a few years on his deal, but Howard and Thornton both have expiring deals, and there’s always the chance Lewis gets traded later, and/or is just filler while a younger SF option develops.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Good point.
We’re really only set at one position.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Reposting from other thread
Do not trade Blatche
He is the same player we saw last year. He played like crap with JaVale last year, too- check his lineup numbers from last year. Blatche and JaVale were terrible together last year, and they’re terrible together again this year, too.
So far this year, Blatche has played well with Yi. Last year, Blatche played well with Oberto.
Be patient. Once JaVale reaches the level of offensive competence of Yi and Oberto, we will be glad we held onto Dray.
Hey, JaVale! Yi / Oberto level of competence is an awfully low bar to clear. What’s taking so @$#!% long?
"it makes you wonder about what his work ethic really is... it's not productive to keep a guy who hasn't displayed good process."
Mike, you’re in a position to know about this more than any of us (we can only speculate based on what we see and read). Is that the impression that you’re getting? Can you try and dig up some info one way or another?
That fact alone would be the only one to sway me towards the trade him camp. But I just don’t do assumptions, and when I do, they’re very deliberately formed assumptions.
Blatche has always worked hard in practice
The problem right now (which he himself acknowledges) is that he concentrates on one facet of the game (offense or defense) at the expense of the other.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
But that does not explain what is driving trade talks
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
There could be many reasons
One is that Cleveland could be floating things to gauge interest.
The Wizards could be trying to motivate Blatche.
Or the Wizards could be trying to establish a price point.
I’ve been hard on Blatche all year. But we need to extend him the same courtesies that we extend to John Wall and other players coming off of injury.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
I am not the one trading him
I am dubious about motivating a player by threatening to trade him. that can work the other way. It seems like Grunfeld and Saunders are looking into trading him and the reasons for this I can only guess at. I do wonder if they envision a different team this season and Blatche is seen as expendable
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't do a salary dump
But I would definitely like to move Blatche for a young player that plays the right way and can be developed.
I always believed a PF had to do one of two things well to be worth keeping
That’s either playing above-average defense or being an above-average rebounder. Blatche is neither. With Jamison, we could always say, “Well; at least he’s scoring and getting boards!”
Of course, the exception is being a Dirk-like player. Well, he ain’t Dirk neither.
Bill Simmons would say at max it takes 7 years for a player to hit their potential, but with the really good one you’ll know by their fourth season. Dray is entering Year Six.
The problem with Blatche
is that he doesn’t really make a team trying to get over the hump better. He takes bad shots, doesn’t really play defense, and I would call him an above average rebounder. Now, on the Wizards, that makes you one of the best players on the team, but on any other team looking to get better I’m not sure how that would work. Why would Cleveland be interested in him? And we haven’t really heard anything from the rest of the league. I can’t see anyone offering anything except maybe a swap of underachieving/young players or maybe a salary dump, and Jesus, how much more salary do we have to dump before we’re the Kentucky Generals? Setting youself up financially is fine, completely destroying the team to save money is not.
except
he doesn’t really make a team trying to get over the hump better
we’re not that team. We’re a team trying to rebuild, and right now we’re at the bottom. The hump should be 2 years away. Andray may have grown up by then. If not, he should get traded.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
I think he's talking about other teams
that would potentially be interested in blatche.
by jones-y on Jan 3, 2011 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know were tired of hearing the injury excuse but...
Blatche is so much slower than last year. There’s a reason he’s floating to the perimeter on offense. Right now he’s incapable of finishing around the basket for the most part. The athleticism just isn’t there. His post moves look like they are being made in slow motion and he gets a lot of shots blocked. Obviously its affecting his confidence.
I get it. I just think he'd be getting in better shape by now.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
But its hard to do that during the course of the season
Plus, what about the fact that he may not yet trust his foot?
Hard to get into shape during the season?
I find that hard to believe….. It seems to me that between practices and 3 games a week – Blatche should have been in great shape by now…. unless he’s chowing down on Cheeto’s, Ribs and Chocolate cake every day……
He's "delightfully cranky"
Of course - I GUESS you could have a problem
getting into shape if you loafed on defense, don’t run, and generally put forth no effort….. but wouldn’t that show in your performance?……………….Oh, wait……….
He's "delightfully cranky"
I'm concerned more about his heath than the shape he's in
I don’t think that foot is totally right. The shape he’s in would affect his stamina more than his speed & quickness. Right now he’s about as unathletic as can be and there’s a significant difference b/w his quickness from last season to this season.
He supposedly tried to bulk up over the summer
Looks like he gained fat instead of muscle and also threw his shot off in the process. Somehow manages to become only pro athlete in history who was better before he hit the weightroom
If he still has a foot problem and has been playing on it for 3 months…I just don’t buy it.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Quickness or effort?
The TAI breakdown that Mike linked to is one of multiple examples of Dray’s utter disregard for defensive effort. We’ve seen plays in which he just stood by and watched as offensive players went right to the rim. If he’s not quick enough, he might get called for a foul trying to defend on those plays, but him not moving at all is a result of lack of effort — not quickness.
I was really optimistic that Blatche had turned a corner with his play at the end of last season, but it’s clear that he didn’t. Honestly, it looks to me like he simply doesn’t care.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Jan 3, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Simlpy playing in games COULD get you in shape.
If you don’t do all of those things you just mentioned.
I am going to keep cheering Gil, like it is 2005. Lets see some of that swag return, because that is why we loved you to begin with.
And do us a favor Gilbert, beat Lebron in the postseason... and RUB IT IN!
by returnofswagger on Jan 5, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
No
Foot problems are notoriously hard to come back from. Further, I think he may have rushed back. He came back WAY ahead of schedule.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Why cant he just lose 15 pounds and be done with it?
This fool refuses to eat right, that is the only explanation for the way his body looks. At this point it’s not even a matter of him needing to get stronger, just get thinner for fuck sake. It’s really not that hard if you dont eat garbage
I wonder if he has a drinking problem too
He looked either totally hungover or drunk in that game vs. Chicago
Probably has too many friends in DC
Been here since he was 18, and as a millionaire. Change of scenery would clearly be painful for him as he wants to be here, but could be only thing that changes his bad habits
On court rather than off court
I’ve been a Blatche fan for 4 years, but based on his play this year (rather than any perceived off court considerations), I think the Wizards should at least explore trade options. Blatche just looks like a different player than he was last year. Its like he’s gotten old. He’s slower, takes more time making decisions, and looks uncomfortable with the ball in his hands. I’m not sure why they’re giving him the ball at the foul line instead of in the post, bu it reminds me of Mitch Richmond’s time here . He had slowed down to the point where he couldn’t make the moves he was use to making and was forced to take a lot of contested shots.
That being said, I don’t think we should do a salary dump just to be rid of him. Just that I’m pessimistic that he’s going to get “it” back and I’m afraid his trade value will decrease as the year goes along. We should definitely explore his trade value and if we can get a useful player or pick in return, don’t hesitate to pull the trigger.
I'm not sure trading him to a bottom dweller in January is a shrewd move
Unless it’s for a first round pick. If there’s a market for Dray that’s going to give a decent return, it’s going to be to playoff team. I really don’t want what the Cavs have to offer and I don’t believe that nothing is better than what we have.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jan 3, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions
I seem to be in the camp that favors keeping Blatche
but the thing I can’t understand is how his deficiencies aren’t coachable. I mean is it really that hard to tell your player to move the ball, stop taking bad shots, and play defense? I bet if Popp were the coach of this team he’d find some way to get Blatche to do those things. I mean look at what happened to Richard Jefferson this year. For some reason Flip is either unable or unwilling to change Blatche’s terrible habits, but I believe it’s certainly not impossible to do so. You don’t just trade away a kid with borderline all-star potential just because he’s been frustrating you.
Pop would have gotten rid of him already.
Not saying that’s the right move for us, but let’s not pretend Popovich would have had the patience to deal with that risk/reward equation.
Lack of effort, for the most part, IS an uncoachable trait.
Blatche knows what to do by now. He just doesn’t do it. He doesn’t care. How do you as coach change a loafer into a hard worker? He’s had long enough to change his habits, and hasn’t. If it hasn’t happened by now, it ain’t gonna…
“He doesn’t care”
And you’re in a position to know?
“his habits”
The ones you have insider info on?
by jones-y on Jan 3, 2011 2:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hmmm. I guess you don't actually watch the games.
The evidence of the eyes is overwhelming. Not to mention the YouTube videos, Truth About It pictures, etc. You’re apparently seeing something different than everyone else, who can see plainly that he doesn’t give a crap.
because he's not in shape
and therefore he is exhausted. All of the evidence shown against him is one or two plays out of over a hundred in specific games. This is an absurdly small fraction of play time to then say “oh, Blatche is a slacker. This is what he does all game, every game.”
by young, loud and Scotty on Jan 3, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently Pops or other assistant spent all summer with Jefferson.
At least that’s what they said in the broadcast the other night, that Pops had coaches at Jefferson’s house all summer to work on exactly how they wanted him to play this year. And that when he was in SanAntonio, Pops worked with him directly.
That seems like far more investment than the Wizards are ever willing to make with their players….which of course gets refuted with “but the players have to want it”
For the sets Flip runs
Blatche has to do a lot, both on offense and defense. It is harder to simplify his game like Saunders did for Nick Young
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
DO NOT TRADE BLATCHE
I guess a lot of people feel he just doesn’t try. I’ve been heavily critical of him at times I admit it. but…’
To his credit, the man was shot int he chest 4 yrs ago. That will set you back 2 yrs! He’s lucky to be alive…and look how far he’s come. If he would just quit taking those bad shots every game, I think we’d have won a few more games and people would be reacting differently.
I think he just needs a kick in the butt. Bench him for seraphin, and see if he starts hustling in practice more.
Can I suggest a third option?
Bury his ass on the bench, and let him bitch and complain all he wants. Stash him away, and let Booker and Seraphin play. I mean, we’re losing anyway aren’t we??? On a team with another scorer (maybe next year), he would be very valuable on the court and more mature. Don’t trade him for nothing. He’s our only home-grown player (other than Nick) with many years under his belt. On a good team, he is an asset, so keep him until we’re a good team.
by Unselds on Jan 3, 2011 1:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
As frustrating as his play of late has been, trading him seems like the final option we try, not the first. My sense is that good teams have the patience to ride out players’ ups and downs.
by mogoman on Jan 3, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Very good point.
Good teams have the patience to ride out players’ ups and downs. That is even more on point when you consider we have had a different starting five pretty much every other game for he season so far.
by DCPerspective on Jan 3, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
He's far better than Booker or Seraphin.
As much as us fans love the hustle we see from Booker, or Seraphin’s perceived toughness- the fact is neither is nearly the player Blatche is (yet). If there was someone on the team who could actually outplay him, he’d already be on the bench.
And? Seraphin cant even stay on the floor.
Kind of silly to suggest he play instead of Blacthe, when he averages a foul a minute
That's ridiculous.
There isn’t a large enough sample to make any judgments on Seraphin, or Booker, for that matter. But there is plenty enough evidence on Blatche and his laziness to sit his butt on the bench.
There is plenty of sample to make observations on Seraphin
That’s why he doesnt play anymore.
If there was a player who projected to
do better than blatche with his minutes, then he’d be playing.
I agree with DCrez. What, you guys want Seraphin and Booker to play so they look bad and you can turn on them too?
I think we need to start Lewis and Howard (or Thornton)
Blatche needs to either get his health or his head together. It’s time to shake him up a little bit.
If in fact he is still injured as you claim then he needs to sit and get himself healthy enough to play effectively.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's my goal, all right.
To turn on players. No, actually, my goal is to see the team rebuilt the right way — with players that play hard on the court, that aren’t constantly in trouble off the court. I realize that’s a ton to ask, but maybe we should try.
The problem is that Flip WON'T bench him.
He gets big minutes no matter how much he sucks and loafs.
Personally I would say to scrap the whole idea
I doubt we will get anything of value in return to recoup the 17pts and 8rebs we are giving up by trading Blatche. A lottery/near lottery first round pick would be nice, but not if it is a couple years down the road. A salary dump dosen’t help either as I seriously doubt there are any plans for attracting any free agents of significance.
I agree
Someone needs to tell him how it is and see if he listens.
Don’t rush into anything.
We ain’t going anywhere anyhow.
See if he develops. He’s still a kid.
Look at Nick.
Not too long ago he was the one we all wanted gone.
AB’s the player that we’d be wanting if he was on another team.
BUT———-he needs to change.
Until someone comes
scratching at the door offering something real for him, trading him should be off the table. Make him come in off the bench and make him fight for minutes. Trading him now would be the worst possible timing and we’ll get nothing even comparable to him.
Trading Blatche would prove that the Wizards' organization is disfunctional
This trade Blatche stuff ticks me off and makes me question whether Wizards fans have the mentality to support a winning organization with a plan, but I’m going to try to control myself. Over the summer, the Wizards extended his deal. Two months into the season (and after Blatche spent the summer with a broken foot) and now they want him gone? You’ve got to be kidding me.
This team is rebuilding. If everyone on the roster is subject to being run out of town after two months or less of bad play, the rebuild will take decades and young players will be so nervous they will have difficulty improving. So much for building a nurturing culture.
Here’s an innovative solution: If you are unhappy with the way a guy prepares or plays, bench him or demote him to a bench player. Trading everyone you are not thrilled with at the moment is juvenile. It’s like breaking up with your significant other/spouse every time you have a disagreement.
by disgrunted on Jan 3, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Jeez, Blatche lovers — why do you think Zach Randolph keeps packing his bags? Or Stephen Jackson? Or Al Harrington? Or, in the past, Iverson? These are players who have decent stats but do not play on good teams. Not on good teams. That is, decent stats do not equal good teams. Blatche is one of these players, imo. The dude has already been given too many chances. This is the NBA, not some kind of public charity rehabilitation program.
Iverson was an MVP and took his team to the Finals, and Jackson won a ring as a starter with San Antonio.
but that didn’t last long in their careers. Though I agree, the comparison is not the best — Iverson and Jackson were much better athletes than Blatche will ever be. But if they were so awesome, they would have stayed with their original teams.
Shaq must have sucked then?
Pau also? Amare is terrible too? Steve Nash?
Lots of great players move teams. Not that Blatche is a great player
Wilt
Moses Malone
Pippen
Jordan
Garnet
Kareem
Barkley
Ewing
etc etc.
It’s a long list of great players who have moved.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Please read my last point of clarification. Sure people change jobs; the good ones are retained by their employers – if they can convince them to stay. I’m done.
The good ones generally write their own tickets
A couple of the players on the list were past their prime and others were financially rewarded. I don’t know what that has to do with a player like Blatche, though. I don’t consider Blatche a bad apple anymore than I thought Arenas was a bad apple. Arenas was a done deal before the season started and he knew it. Blatche is more about team needs and excessive expectations. This is not the team they had last season, so they may feel Blatche is not the best fit for the new team.
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Jordan
Pippen
Shaq
were all pretty much pushed out against their will.
I mean, the list of good complimentary players that get traded (hello Lewis, Howard, Hinrich) is pretty long.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Jorden and Pippen were just extending their careers
and Shaq just didn’t like playing with Bryant. I don’t think O’Neal was pushed out. I think he wanted out. Blatche is on the complimentary player list at this point. Hinrich was a casualty of the Lebron-Wade-Bosh extravaganza. Lewis was an overpaid past his prime player and Howard was replaced Butler. They had to give up something to get Butler, Stevenson and Haywood. Those are 3 players who can start and the WZ got one back. Blatche might be a casualty of his his own injury and Wall.
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I believe MJ and Pippen wanted back in but Krause wanted to blow it up. And I also think Shaq wanted to stay in LA. Of course I wasn’t there, but that’s what I recall from the time.
Of course there is always a reason things happen, but the reason players get traded is not always because they are not “awesome”.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Its contracts and team needs
ONeal won a ring after LA. Jabbar got some more rings after Milwaukee. Gasol was handed to the Lakers. Chamberlain was still in his prime. Often its about money and team needs.
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want to be traded
I didn’t mean it when I said I hate this team. it was the Vodka tonics talking. I am going to kick ass in Philly. I’m Dray dammit! i’m the future of this team. You can’t trade me I just signed a contract and I am going to spend my whole career with this team. Give me another season to prove myself. Please?
I just bought some shake weights
by andrayblatche on Jan 3, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That is Some Funny Stuff
Rec for you.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
More like "better stop being hurt then."
by jones-y on Jan 3, 2011 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What's your inside info?
You seem convinced he still has an injury. I haven’t heard anything about that. Just today he called himself 85%. That extra 15% is the difference between last year and this year?
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
15% is a huge difference
But there’s no excuse for only being 85% at this point.
There are a lot of guys in the NBA that play hurt. Mostly they do so effectively.
I just don’t see that being the case here (from my excellent vantage point on my couch). Jones-y keeps pushing the injury angle so much I thought maybe he knows something I don’t.
Maybe Mike or Sean have some insight about Blatche’s injury situation.
Mostly I think if he’s still hurt in January he should sit until he’s closer to right.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
That's rather uncalled for, don't you think?
At the very least I debate fairly.
And I'm entitled to my opinions just like the rest of you.
And just like mine are opinions based on what I see, so are yours.
So grow up. Or don’t. I don’t care.
Looks like Sean Fagan has the information you want.
I was merely speculating, and it seems that my speculation was pretty much on target.
Apology accepted.
Again, I have no priveledged access
besides being at practice with other media members.
I also think the poster was attempting to make a joke.
I think criticism of Blatche is warranted, but making across the board statements about him being “lazy” is going over the line.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Yeah, a joke indeed
but ‘with benefits’? Sounds rather like a homophobic attack to me.
I agree also about criticism, and I’ve stated on several occasions that he put himself in the position to be criticized in such a way, based on his work ethic in the past. But really its waaayyy overboard. I mean I understand the passion, but it clouds judgement, and that has certainly been on display around here recently. To go from virtual fan favorite to most hated player in the span of 64 games is quite remarkable. And shortsighted if you ask me.
Compared to us, you do have privileged access. At the very least you can ask the question. I’m not expecting you to get inside Flip or Grunfeld’s head, but at the very least, we now know what
probably is(and what certainly isn’t) causing his struggles.
Well said
I think criticism of Blatche is warranted, but making across the board statements about him being "lazy" is going over the line.
It looks to me like Blatche isn’t putting forth maximum effort on the floor, but I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate that he’s not working in practice or that he doesn’t care about basketball. His play on the court deserves to be criticized, but I think we should cut him a little slack as a man, too, since we can’t really make many informed statements on what we don’t see off the court.
From the District of Columbia, home of the hyperbolic paraboloid transitional floating zone defense.
That's not true
Most players that come back from a tough injury like Dray did struggle at first. They’re rusty and might not be 100%, and I think Dray is both of those.
by iNFaMOUS SwaGG on Jan 3, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair MR
its not just the foot. He has been dinged up all season
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
Thanks for the inside scoop. Great to know that stuff.
Like I have said a few times today, maybe the guy needs to sit and get healthy. He shouldn’t be out there hurting the team.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Andray-Blatche-parties-like-it-s-1999;_ylt=AomvYhISg8jSrLFhM7o312I5nYcB?urn=nba-302831
I know it’s Kelly Dwyer, but thought you all might like to see this.
We are getting cranky
Maybe this is just a ploy to kick him in the ass, sending out fake smoke signals about him getting traded to Cleveland. That would make me give up hamburgers forever!
I don't think it is a ploy
Flip Grunfeld may look at the team and see a 4 who fits in better than Blatche. This si a new team and Blatche might be seen as the odd man out.
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
This strategy is playing with fire
Because you can hurt your relationship with the player. Its always better to have players on a team that WANTS to be there
In case you missed the link
That idiot was pouring champagne on his head on New Year’s Eve. What an asshole. Trade him to the Redskins where he belongs.
Because he missed his mouth
He is an NBA player. There are a league of Blatches. James is no different. i have read some horrendous things about him and his behavior. They are rich, young and spoiled.
by hambonejackson on Jan 3, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I probably one of the few ones in the "KEEP Blatche" camp
but you guys will really regret that next year if it happens. If he doesnt break his foot and stay injuried all year then he would look alot different right now
Alright, you feel like a lot of others but I’m telling you. I still have some Wiz games on tape from late last year and he’s a lot less quicker, explosive, and unsure of himself. He looks rusty, out of shape, and unconfident. A lot of you guys say guys come back and play well but that’s not true. A lot of them struggle, especially when they aren’t physical type players and I think Dray would look better right now if he had come back with no problems but he’s been hurt ever since the season started on & off. He just cant get out the blocks. If he has a good stretch where he stays healthy then you will see him start to look better.
Don’t get it twisted, he’s making me sick a lot also. He’s playing way too soft, settling way too much, and making horrible decisions, but you are not seeing the real Dray and if you guys think so then don’t get mad at EG if he does make the trade and Dray looks like an all around beast next year, somewhere else
Did some PER analysis on this
And looked at guys that went direct from High School to the Pros
Left out studs like LeBron, KG, DHoward and Amare (Focused on F/Cs)
Compared Blatche to guys like Tyson Chandler, Josh Smith, Al Harrington, Al Jefferson, Amir Johnson, J O’Neal, Kwame, etc
A few things stood out:
- Most players prime PERs were from 24-28 with some drop off after that (HS Grads prime years?)
- Usually by the third or fourth year, the premier guys PERs skyrocketed above 20
- Players usually did well on good teams and not mediocre ones
- Dray’s dip this year is counter to the majority of players in his peer group who have experienced success/ Chandler was one player that experienced a similar drop and his numbers were up and down throughout his career
- Moses Malone was incredible in his consistency (PERs above 20 for at least 12 straight years)
- Javale’s maturity aside/ his numbers of 17/17/18.6 are very favorable, next year could determine whether he becomes a good rotation player or an elite player
Interesting.
Chandler was playing through a toe injury when his PER dipped, right?
Give it a rest
you are entering dickish territory.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
It's a public forum
and when someone goes from thread to thread and beats the same drum and hits the same one note over and over no matter what the context then the forum loses some of its meaning. Whether it’s an intelligent poster like yourself or a mae.
by MR on Jan 3, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
when someone goes from thread to thread and beats the same drum and hits the same one note over and over no matter what the context
So then the same applies to those calling for a certain player’s head on a platter then, right? I don’t recall any out of context discussion on my part, by the way.
then the forum loses some of its meaning.
Then certainly you have a problem with all the threads and posts calling for a certain player’s head on a platter, right?
But anyway, I’m not here to fight. I’m here to debate. I didn’t know that, by doing so, I’d ruffle your feathers. So I apologize for ruffling your feathres. But I did nothing wrong and I’m not going to change a thing, so I suggest you learn to ignore me.
And thanks for the compliment i guess…
No, that was later in his career
In 08/09, when he was 26.
(Note to everyone: this was a serious question. Chandler had a toe issue that blocked a trade to OKC in 08/09).
But that's when Michael Dabbs said his PER dipped.
Look below.
Anyway, its not a big deal, and I’m sorry i ruffled anyone’s feathers. At lest now we have some real info to digest instead of just pure speculation (which I’m also guilty of speculating…)
And yes re: Chandler’s toe, it was an honest to goodness question.
That's part of it
His PER dipped to 13.4 and 12.5 in 08/09 and 09/10 with NO and CHA respectively.
With DAL this year, its back to 17.0
How I think this all relates to Andray is that he had a PER of 17.6 next year.
I think that his ceiling is that of a good rotation player and not a first or second option guy.
He’s the seventh or eighth guy that you bring off of the bench on a good team as he doesn’t have an elite quality in any area of his game
Correction
PER of 17.6 last year
Prior to that it was 10.1, 12.1, 15.5 and 15.0
This year its 13.6
Thanks for the info Michael
I’ll agree on Dray’s potential for the most part, but I do think that he can get back to being a very efficient scorer.
Y'all think you know me
but i got one questio to ask y’all.
Who do you want me to be?
The Player You Were the 2nd Half of Last Season...
… excluding that one game where you decided to not listen to your coach and got benched for 3 quarters. But play at that level for an entire season. This means staying focused on your conditioning level (regardless of your injury status), your diet (regardless of your injury status), and your defense (regardless of whether or not your shot is falling). This means not standing and watching players dribble around you while you guard nobody (if you are too tired to move your feet when guarding the pick and roll, then ask to be deactivated until you get yourself back into shape). This means not camping out at the 3 point line, but rather the low post.
This also means limiting your distractions. Try to go an entire season without making news for your off-the-court activities. Learn how to conduct yourself like a professional. Learn how to put it all together, like us fans have been waiting for you to do for 6 FRIGGIN’ SEASONS!
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
"JaVale has five highlight plays a game. Unfortunately, there's about 200 plays in a game. He's got to get more substance than style." -- Flip Saunders summing up Javale McGee perfectly
Here is the point.
If you take a job in which you perform in front of thousands of people and get paid a huge salary to do so, the people who ultimately pay the money for your work expect the highest level of dedication and effort. There are millions of jobs that don’t involve public scrutiny and in which you can do quite well without ever trying that hard, but you aren’t going to pull in 7 figures doing it. Charging hundreds of dollars to see a basketball game is a load of horse$@^#, the last thing I want to see at that game is a millionaire baby pouting and ignoring his coach or jogging back on defense. Save the whining for practice and the locker room, be a pro on the court all the time, period.
People want their athletes obsessed with winning. Guys who understand that winning does actually involve every aspect of your life, not just a few hours a day. It doesn’t mean fans are right, it is what it is.
Trailblazers need a big little man...
…Blatche for Oden or Roy straight up.
And yes, if Blatche goes, he will blossom into a 20/10/5apg all star.
by ucantstopbernard on Jan 3, 2011 8:51 PM EST reply actions
Cavs fan here
I dont think a single Cavs fan I know wants Blatche……..I dont think we are any more educated than other fans in the league, but Blatche is developing a really bad name in the NBA.
The fight isnt the problem so much as the laziness, and I doubt the Cavs would send fan favorite Boobie Gibson here for Blatche when we have a practically identical player (in almost every respect) in JJ Hickson, who also has attitude problems, but a much better contract.
If we do the trade, it will be something like Jamario Moon, Leon Powe, and a 2nd round pick for him. However, I dont think that the Cavs will make any sort of deal for him, primarily because we have HIckson and Jamison already.
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