Javale is not a good center
by back_to_the_future on Aug 17, 2010 3:56 PM EDT
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Javale does not have the it factor....he has the me factor. i am going to break down his game and show you.
1. What is a center?
- a center is the crowd control in the paint. an effective center is good at rebounding, help defense, off ball screens and pick and rolls. On a fast tempo team, a fairly good center will box out effectively then run baseline to baseline, and hope for a put back. Examples are kedrick perkins (fairly desent), tyson chandler (fairly good), then dwight howard (exceptional). On a half court team, a fairly good center does help defense, alter shots, box out, run to a set position on the other end, off ball screens, pick and rolls, and if given the ball in the paint-has a set ove moves to either get to the line or shoot a high percent shot. Examples are Roy Hibbert/ B Haywood/ Dalembert/ robyn lopez/ dampiert/ nazr muhammed (all fairly desent), chandler again/ big Z/ Andris bierdnis/ Kris Kamen?/ young gasol/ Shaq/ (fairly Good), then dwight again, horford?/ Lopez(PF-C) / Tim Duncan/ joakim noah/ brook lopez/ pau gasol/bynum
Javale
pros: "can run and jump" lol...run baseline to baseline, and hope for a put back
con: can not do the following effectively: rebounding, help defense, off ball screens and pick and roll, box out, run to a set position on the other end, given the ball in the paint-has a set ove moves to either get to the line or shoot a high percent shot
In a guard oriented league, Javale does not know his roll. he plays like a guard in the paint, with no handles nor a consistent jumper. He has the tools however, unlike Blatche, he has no clue what to do on either side of the ball besides highlight reals. He is a poor mans tyson chandler and that is not good at all. What has chandler doen without Paul? What will javale do without Wall? He is not an all star. everybody on the all star team can run and shoot, the difference is they KNOW how to play NBA basketball. He doesnt.
Roy Hibbert/ B Haywood/ Dalembert/ robyn lopez/ dampiert/ nazr muhammed are all better starting centers
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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He's also way less experienced than everyone else you named
aside from Hibbert and Lopez, who were viewed (surprise, surprise) in the draft as being more ready to contribute right away than McGee, but with lower ceilings than McGee.
Everyone else on your list is several years more experienced (and yes experience is almost everything when discussing bigs) than McGee. Including Blatche. McGee is a center with two years of experience who was raw coming in.
I repeat.
He’s a center with two years of experience who was raw coming in. What exactly do you expect?
by jones-y on Aug 17, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
raw or not
I deal in today not for tomorow, because that day may never come. Today that is the list. the lopez twins, bogut, young gasol, adris bierdnis, roy hubbert, even greg olden are way better at center.
Does he have scoring ability?
Rebounding ability?
low post defense awareness?
low post offense awareness?
one on one defense?
short range?
mid range?
handles?
basketball IQ?
All the above is a negative in my book?
by back_to_the_future on Aug 17, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
you must be miserable
because the team you root for, i presume, unveiled a public rebuilding plan for the next 2 seasons at minimum. They’re drafting in numbers and playing for the future.
It is only his 3rd year? How are you giving up on the guy? He hasn’t even reached his physical maturity yet and you are ready to dump him? For what? Who is going to be a better Center for us right now if McGee wasn’t here?
Not every Center drafted is going to be Dwight Howard like it seems you want to believe. It takes time for this stuff to happen and as of right now, McGee is heading in the right direction. Give him a chance, jesus dude.
And Greg Oden? He is better right now? I find it hard to agree that Oden is better without even playing a game of basketball. So you would take Oden being out the entire year for McGee, right?
Get real dude, your argument stinks.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 17, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im not miserable and i have not given up on him
I really hate the fact that fans here want him to start and forget that he is still raw and a project. its going to take him at least 2 more seasons to be good. i waited 6-8 years for haywood…i can wait for javale.
by back_to_the_future on Aug 18, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Well if this is a “rebuilding” year like everyone expects it to be, why not throw JaVale in there to work out some of the kinks. I don’t think he would be terrible in every game much like you make it out to be. He will definitely have some great games for us because of how good of an athlete he is.
How do you expect this guy to ever become a starting center if he is going to be coming off the bench all the time? He needs to get in there and start learning. This is the year to do it with Wall in there to take some pressure off him and the rest of the guys.
I mean honestly, who else do you want in there besides McGee? Yi, N’Diaye, Blatche? McGee is our best option at Center right now and needs to see the court.
Just because we are rebuilding?
We can still win games. I believe we are a better Bucks team and they were/are a playoff team. I think how we molded haywood for some years, javale needs more time. Im pretty sure he will break 20-10 here and there off of put backs and breaks. All im saying is that i am against this notion that he is ready for huge PT
by back_to_the_future on Aug 18, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree that we can’t still win games. I think we have a chance to win 38-41 games next year and sneak into the playoffs with a 7 or 8 seed. But you want McGee to sit and you have still failed to answer my question of who YOU want to start in his position? I just don’t think there are any other options better than McGee right now to start at Center. If you disagree, please tell me who then.
There's a chance that Yi takes JaVale's starting spot.
Yi came into the league just like JaVale, super athletic and super raw. But Yi has had the benefit of more than double the minutes so far. Plus, it’s a contract year for Yi, which always helps keep a guy focused.
Here’s hoping that Yi, JaVale, and Blatche all have breakout seasons this year.
i didnt see your question
my bad!!!! lol
i think we should have a center by commitee approach. Serriphin/ Yi/ blatche/ mcgee/ all rotate depending on match ups. Mcgee gets used consistently by polished cneters. Where is dennis rodman? he can show Javale how to be a “diva”/ play OC, yet still be in control (the irony)/ defense and rebound
by back_to_the_future on Aug 18, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Serriphin looks to be playing overseas this year. Yi is a poor man’s version of Shawn Bradley on defense from what I have seen during his career. Blatche needs to be playing PF because of his versatility. McGee is the best option for us at center right now and we will have to deal with it.
I am very, very optimistic about the type of season JaVale will have for us this year. There is a reason he was chosen to try out for the USA team, something that all the centers you mentioned but Lopez didn’t get to do.
yi at center could be....
hakeem on offense…plus he boxes out on defense and offense
by back_to_the_future on Aug 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
did you just compare Yi Jianlian to Hakeem Olajuawan?
by tw10 on Aug 19, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
My head exploded…
We're from the city with the highest murder rate in the country. Why WOULDN'T they call us the Bullets?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Aug 20, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
and concluded that Yi could be better because Olajuwon didn't box out?
That has to be a joke, right? I’m not sure…
Hey McFly, did you ever see Olajuwon play? He was good at everything, and his offense was, um, Dream-y. There’s not one post player in the NBA right now that comes close.
i ent no damn mcfly...that was funny though
yi could be hakeem on offense because he can dribble, shoot and plays like a tall finess guard……i ment to have written, plus “if” he boxes out…….,
all i was tryen to say is that he should emulate hakeem
by back_to_the_future on Aug 25, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
OK Come on.
I have read some head-scratching stuff on this website. But damn. This takes the cake.
You are saying Yi could have an offensive game equivalent to one of the Top 5 Offensive Centers in NBA HISTORY?
H-I-S-T-O-R-Y?
Yi
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Somebody better call Hakeem and tell him he dropped down to 5th now, LOL.
by malharden on Aug 25, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no
Im saying he has the same skill set..“yi could be hakeem on offense because he can dribble, shoot and plays like a tall finess guard”……"all i was tryen to say is that he should emulate hakeem"
the hell were u reading?
by back_to_the_future on Aug 25, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't you actually have to be on the court to play the game?
Oden is disqualified.
Greg Oden has played exactly one full season of games
He has a career PER of 19.5 and is a force on the defensive end. Definitely better than Javale at this point.
If the dude can ever stay healthy for a full season he’s easily one of the 5 best centers in the league.
Only problem is that he can’t stay healthy. I’ll take a healthy McGee over beat up Oden right now. Can’t do too much when you are not playing, which is exactly what Oden is doing right now.
but!!!!!!
Javale doesnt do to much while playing
by back_to_the_future on Aug 18, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He will this year. And he has done more than Oden has in the same amount of time. I am not sold on Oden at all.
you have got to be kidden
this post is for fans like you! we will see glimpses of somethen, but not enough to warrent significant playing time.
oden was a force when he was playing….when was javale ever one
by back_to_the_future on Aug 19, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
this post is for fans like you!
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Because I am being optimistic about how I think McGee will have a good year? You are ready to give up on the guy after TWO seasons in the NBA. You shouldn’t have even put up a post like this.
no i am not
i just believ he has another 2 years till we see him doing somethen solid on the regular
by back_to_the_future on Aug 25, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
he averaged 25 points against the warriors last year
by Young Wook Lee on Aug 21, 2010 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Does he have scoring ability? Yes
Rebounding ability? Yes
low post defense awareness? No
low post offense awareness? Yes
one on one defense? No
short range? Yes
mid range? Showed glimpses
handles? Yes
basketball IQ? No
eh...its hard to say
does he have scoring ability? kind of, not really though
rebounding ability? he’s okay because of his athleticism, but his funamentals stink
low post defense awareness? no
low post offense awareness? no
one on one defense? no
short range? seriously, who doesn’t have that in the nba
mid range? yes showed glimpses
handles? yes for a big man
bball iq? no
by Young Wook Lee on Aug 18, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I laughed while reading this whole thing.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 17, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Javale doesn't know his rolls from his buns.....
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Aug 18, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
?
“He has the tools however, unlike Blatche, he has no clue what to do on either side of the ball besides highlight reals. "
What?
“He is a poor mans tyson chandler and that is not good at all.” actually not bad if you’re talking about a healthy Chandler.
“What will javale do without Wall?”
What does this mean? He hasn’t even played a real game with Wall yet
I can express my dislike for this post for days but since i don’t have anything good to say, i won’t say anything more (well, you spelled Blatche right i guess)
by qthaballa on Aug 17, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
ja, ja
back_to_the_future is pulling your leg people. He/she wrote “I deal in today not for tomorrow” his/her name is back to the future. It’s all a big joke for poster to defend McGee and show him some love. I like your style B2F, training camp seems like a year away and we all need something to get us through the long summer.
But if I’m wrong and you are serious… you can just keep your posts to the WAPO boards, they are hating 4 days and everyone over there will agree with your depressing and critical views on subjects that you would fail brilliantly at. Have fun and happy Tuesday.
Le Bullet - where being a fan isn't easy, but at least we have lots of cool scars to show for it.
by Le Bullet on Aug 17, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think McGee is your perfect come off the bench Center...
in which he will provide a spark. I mean it is the perfect scenario for the highly active center with asthma. BUT with that said I still would love for McGee to develop into a good starting center for us…actually I want him to develop more than anyone else on the team. He is apart of the young movement (Blatche and Wall) so I would love for him to remain a Wizard for life….
Blatche took 5 years to blossom and that's who you're comparing him to as a bust after two?
Come on, dewd…
We're from the city with the highest murder rate in the country. Why WOULDN'T they call us the Bullets?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Aug 18, 2010 2:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Jan 19, 1988
Mcgee wont be closed to a finished product until he is 25.
Lets take a look at the development of some of those centers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html
Chandler, who he gets compared to often, established himself in his 4th season. Although still not getting over 30 minutes a game till two seasons later in NO.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywobr01.html
We saw Haywood’s progression first hand. He came out as a 22 year old college senior. He got inconsistent minutes under Eddie Jordan and had a tough time gaining his trust. He steadily improved on the limited things he can do every year, and made himself a top 10 center.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dalemsa01.html
Dalembert had his first solid season at 22 and his peak at 26. Pretty consistent production from year to year, but doesn’t appear to be a 30 minute a night center.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cambyma01.html
Just for fun I’ll throw in Camby because he is often compared to Javale. Came out as a college senior and was always a defensive force. Injury plagued early on he only peaked when he was 26.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html
I just don’t think he’s that good. I am sure Team USA could have had him down there if they wanted. I bet if we posted a trade proposal of Mcgee for Hibbert straight up they would be going nuts.
Patience. The important thing is Mcgee is developing and I think we can all agree on that.
Totally agree...
Thank you for posting this. Regretful is the GM that loses patience and trades a center a year or two before he blossoms. When people say that centers take longer to develop, they aren’t joking.
i agree
what i was syaing is that javale should not start this year and have huge minutes at center. i dont think he is ready
by back_to_the_future on Aug 18, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
rebuilding...
This is the perfect time for him to start and log massive minutes, so that he can become a true starting center. We want to develop our youth over the next two seasons and loose just enough to get draft picks , so that in 3,4,or 5 years down the road our youth are seasoned vets and we pull in a big free agent and contend for a title at least the East Conference Finals.
I know nobody wants to hear we loose now for the future, but we have not won since the 70’s. And when developing youth it’s gonna get ugly at times. It’s time to build for real and Uncle Ted we believe.
Plus who else is going to start… think about it, or just keep blaming EG.
Le Bullet - where being a fan isn't easy, but at least we have lots of cool scars to show for it.
by Le Bullet on Aug 18, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hope JVM develops soon, 5 years or so is a long time to wait.
I’ve always said the JVM has “multi-million dollar athleticism and a 10 cent Basketball IQ” Loosely quoting Bull Durham….He definitely needs a low post mentor to help him develop his strengths and minimize his mistakes! You only see Shaq dribble between his legs, lead fast breaks, take fade away jump shots or whatever during scrimmages or all-star games! Regular season and playoffs, back to the fundamentals. Hated using Shaq as an example!
"I get buckets, son!" Big Oily
"...I was supposed to go broke on that hand! Except they forgot one thing:
I CAN DODGE BULLETS, BABY" Phil Hellmuth
I haven't given up on McGee
but am pretty disheartened on how little he improved mentally. He still is an atrocious defensive rebounder, has horrible awareness, takes stupid jumpers/drives, and doesn’t run back on defense. I was hoping there would be some improvement over the summer but there simply wasn’t. Not sure about the post but I can agree that Javale is not a good center, YET. I think he still needs 2 more years which is kinda depressing.
thats the whole point of the post
fans want him to start and log in all this playing time now….for what? we can win now! we will win now! people forget that gil didnt play a full season and is still with tim grover!!!!! he was top 10 when healthy…i would say top 5, but im a huge fan..
by back_to_the_future on Aug 19, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
except we wont be contending
so whats the pointing of trying to get stuck in the land of middle and you dont improve for years?
better to suck this year, let our prospects improve, get a good draft pick, and then pull the thunders next year
by Young Wook Lee on Aug 20, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm all for winning now
And if we do it with the kids playing, then great. But if it’s a choice between making the playoffs or getting in serious minutes developing the potential future rotation guys on the team, then I’m taking door number 2.
Why would you give up on McGee?
He’s only 22 and is only going into his 3rd season, and he has shown the desire to get better. He’s has gained a lot of weight during the summer. Just by looking at him play, you can tell that he’s gotten stronger. He’s even grown and inch and 1/4 during the offseason, which now makes him 7’1" 1/4. This offseason, he learned he has asthma. That’s why he’s struglled to stay in the game for long periods because he got tired too quickly because of his asthma. But he has taken up boxing to help him get conditioned, and I think he is in better shape now. He still has a lot of potential.
Everybody knows what he’s good at. He can “run-&-jump”, has great size, a great wingspan, is a great athlete, and is a great shot-blocker. His weaknesses are that he has bad defensive awareness, he bites to much on pump fakes(which can get him in foul trouble), takes stupid jumpers sometimes(like he did sometimes during Team USA exhibitions, and he tries to dribble the ball too much.
And I don’t think he is as raw as people say he is. I know the summer league isn’t a good way to judge how good somebody is, but McGee showed that he has offensive touch and has a lot of scoring potential. My caomparison for him is Tyson Chandler w/more offensive potential.
I think most of his future relies on John Wall. He finally has a true PG that is a great passer that will utilize McGee’s abilty the best he can. They already have so much chemistry like they showed in the summer league, and I think that that will translate to the regular season.
Just watch, McGee is going to become a star.
by iNFaMOUS SwaGG on Aug 18, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
........
“and is a great shot-blocker”
what did i miss? one on one he is below average. weakside help defense he gets by being a great athlete.
“I think most of his future relies on John Wall.”
i stated that as well. Wall is chandlers chris paul
by back_to_the_future on Aug 19, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions
Minutes and Ranking
Hollinger’s PER stat puts McGee at 18th best center in the league.
The dude played less than 1000 NBA minutes last season, even less than his rookie year. By comparison, B Lopez played over 3000 minutes last year and nearly the same in his rookie year.
If McGee logs over 2200 minutes this year, he’ll be near being a Top 10 center (with some one-on-one big man coaching). To be a successful team in basketball, you have to know who to invest in and develop. Taps thought it was McGuire.
Leonis knows for now that it is Wall, McGee and Blatche. The only issue is whether Flip will cut them some slack for rookie-type mistakes.
I don't agree
Hollinger’s PER stat puts McGee at 18th best center in the league.
If we accept that PER does a decent job of quantifying offense (it’s not perfect, but it does okay) and admit it doesn’t really factor in defense at all (not with any accuracy, anyway) then that only makes him the 18th best center on offense. He’s still a liability on defense overall (ask the Wiz and USA coaches, if you don’t believe me), so if you’re trying to rank him as a center you have to drop him down from that. Last year he was probably somewhere in the 30-40 range, depending on how much you believe his shot-blocking makes up for his blown assignments. That’s not bad for a raw 22 year-old, but he has a ways to go.
Opposing centers PERs ....
….playing against McGee are on 82games.com, along with the net. McGee’s ranking drops, but not much. For example, he’s better than the 17th guy on Hollinger’s list when you look at the net statistic.
It’s hard to identify 30 centers in the NBA who better than McGee right now.
It’s harder to identify 10 centers in the NBA who have the potential to be better than McGee in five years.
I like PER, but it's only one number
It’s not a be-all, end-all. For example: JaVale’s on/off numbers this year were pretty bad. The Wizards were 5.1 points worse/100 possessions with McGee on the court.
didnt we already know that he was a bad center
its just that he has ridiculous upside, any player with potential like that you give him minutes, especially when the team is rebuilding, and by the way, we can’t win now anyway it seems like you think we have a good chance of making the playoffs but i say percentage wise its like 15% chance
This article was so poorly written I can't take it seriously.
Looking at specific on court actions is not a good way to evaluate player performance. Just look at the stats. Javale already has the numbers of a serviceable NBA center, more playing time will only cause him to improve
#21
Over at Yahoo Sports, with an expectation for Top 10 next year.
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