Off to see the Wizards.... Carmelo Anthony???
by Stray Bullet on Aug 17, 2010 2:41 PM EDT
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PrintWith confirmed reports that Carmelo Anthony wants out of Denver (possibly prior to the upcoming season)... which trade scenarios would realistically make sense for Denver?
Personally, I feel that J Wall is the only player off the table (Even A Blatche would have to be expendable).
Although, this trade would go against Management's plan of staying young and building through the draft, bringing in a top-5 NBA player, and local hero (Baltimore) HAS to be the top priority.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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im hoping we play Really good this season and our young florish and make it to the 6th 5th 4th spot in the playoffs …. give our playoff oppenents all they can handle or knock em out …. this way Carmelo might consider joining us if we if look like a young up n coming team that is one superstar like him away from becoming a major conterder for Years
Well, it looks like he wants out before the season starts. I can’t imagine how awkward it would be for him to say right now that he will part ways with Denver and then play all of next season. We will have to make a move now if we want Melo.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 17, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if we got wall, we can get melo
1. melo is unguardable…he is king james kryptonite.
2. with melo, we would be top 3 in the east …i say better then the heat.
wall > ?
arenas = wade (neither can stop the other, so i say equal)
melo > James (melo isnt better but he definately is frazier to ali)
blatche = bosh ( he is a finess PF that does not fare well with bangers…hence him
not wanten to play center)
? = ? I would trade mcgee instantly
bench > miller and whoever
how we could do this is simple****. mcgee, thorten , young (howard may veto) and 1st for melo and there 2nd.
by back_to_the_future on Aug 17, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
I am not sure we want to get rid of McGee anymore. This guy has come a long way and is looking to be a damn good player. Wouldn’t make sense to get rid of him. I do think a deal is still possible without McGee though.
Blatche, Howard, Thornton and our 1st. Grunie won’t do it though because it makes too much sense to bring him here. Gotta keep those draft picks like we did this year, right Ernie?
Melo makes $17.1 million
Blatche makes $3.2 million
Howard makes $3 million (and he has veto power, which he’d certainly exercise)
Thornton makes $2.8 million
Draft picks have no salary value
Combined, they make $9 million
$17 million is not within 125% of $9 million, therefore, it won’t work.
And what exactly could NY do? They have such a crap team. Best player they can offer is Eddie Curry. Is it really all about the contract and not talent?
Curry will make $11.3 million next year
And has an expiring contract.
I’m not sure you realize this, but in order for a trade to be legal, the outgoing/incoming salaries have to be within 125 percent of each other. Your proposed trade is literally not legal.
The Knicks could offer a Curry/Anthony Randolph/Gallinari package and it’d be legal contracts-wise.
i though that 125% thing was only if you’re over the cap? no?
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 17, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Melo coming here doesn't make sense
I don’t see why he would go from Denver to here at this time. Denver has a really good team and could easily be in the hunt for a championship next year. Why leave now?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
lol
Billups and Arenas would be a strange backcourt. I cant see the two of them playing together. And like you said Denver doesnt want him
I think I'm going to write about this for BF or SBNDC
But Melo pretty much became a pipedream once we made the Hinrich trade. The contracts really don’t add up to make a trade happen.
Couldn't Hinrich be included..
He would be an upgrade at SG for Denver
by Stray Bullet on Aug 17, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hinrich's salary
being included seems to be the only way we can make any big trades. Arenas has too big of a number for any deals to improve. Everyone else has relatively small salaries. After Arenas with $17m, Hinrich ($9m), Wall ($5m), and Yi ($4m) are our biggest contracts. So without Hinrich, our next 4 contracts wouldn’t combine for enough to get Melo.
Why would the Wizards trade to get Carmelo now? That makes no sense. If they didn’t go all out to get Lebron why would they do this for Carmelo.
First off, getting him doesn’t guarantee anything, but we still have a lot of question marks (Blatche, McGee, Young, and even Arenas).
Second, why break up what you have been trying to accomplish the whole summer and that’s rebuilding this roster. You would have to trade half your team to get him and that would completely contradict the plan for this team.
Lastly, why not just wait until next year to try to get him if you’re going to get him? If you are worried about him getting traded to another team and signing long term then he probably wouldn’t have signed long term anyway. You basically end up trading most of your team for a one year rental on a team that is not a contender, when you could possibly wait next summer when he’s a free agent and get him without giving up any players.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Aug 17, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
Only problem is that Melo is going to get traded before this season. I highly doubt Denver wants to lose out on him without getting anything back and a team like the Knicks seems like they are more than willing to give away their entire roster for him. I don’t blame them.
Second, why break up what you have been trying to accomplish the whole summer and that’s rebuilding this roster. You would have to trade half your team to get him and that would completely contradict the plan for this team.
Unfortunately in seems that the NBA is moving away from the “building” aspect. All the teams that have won of recently have been teams who made huge trades for star players. That is what wins in today’s league, not waiting for guys to pan out unless you get that freak player (which we have in Wall but not going to be enough to win a championship)
In order to win a championship in the league today, you gotta have more than 1 superstar on your team. Lakers did it, Boston did it, Miami is doing it and Knicks will be doing it if they make a move for Melo. We all love Arenas, but he is no longer the superstar he was.
I don’t want to sound like a pessimist here and get ragged on for it, but if we want to ever contend for a championship and not be a 6th-8th seed team like we most likely will be for a while, we have to go out in free agency. Go ahead and tell me I am wrong, but it is my opinion.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 17, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you’re right, actually
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 17, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, there are the few teams that might actually have a chance to win it all by rebuilding. OKC is an example, but Durant is that freak player I am talking about, such as Kobe, LeBron, Wade.
Look at the Grizzlies, they have been rebuilding since they came into the league. What have they done?
As of right now, we are heading in the right direction. We have the pieces right now to sneak into the playoffs. But is everyone here really fine with just being a playoff team or do you want to win a Championship? I want to win a championship. Of course right now that isn’t possible. But Wall could very well still be the outright best player on this team 3-4 years from now, and it won’t be enough.
Unfortunately in seems that the NBA is moving away from the "building" aspect. All the teams that have won of recently have been teams who made huge trades for star players. That is what wins in today’s league, not waiting for guys to pan out unless you get that freak player (which we have in Wall but not going to be enough to win a championship)
I agree that this is where the NBA is going in GENERAL, but you can’t say every team is doing this. Look at the Thunder and Trail Blazers. Neither one of those teams had to make a big trade to build a playoff team, so why should the Wizards need to do so. Both of those teams are just as close to contending as the Mavericks, Nuggets, or any other team that has made a big trade. Just because everybody jumps off of a cliff doesn’t mean we have to too. Uncle Ted has a set plan for his teams and he seems very much set on keeping the plan in tact. I agree it would be great to add a player like Carmelo and making this team better, but I also want to see where Ted’s plan takes us. We haven’t even played a game yet as him being owner! Let’s see what we have, before we start taking marquee FA. What if this team totally bombs this year, then would it make sense to have a player like Carmelo on a team that could take even longer to build a contender? The window to win would be shorten if we got Carmelo now and we don’t even know if we have players to play around him besides Wall.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Aug 17, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the Thunder and Trail Blazers. Neither one of those teams had to make a big trade to build a playoff team, so why should the Wizards need to do so.
Yea, they have built a nice playoff team. But I am not talking about just a playoff team. I want a championship team. I want a big 3. Why can’t we have it? Yes, it is early right now and we all have to see where Wall can take us, but it isn’t to a championship without that other player (specifically the ever so important wing player).
I am not jumping off the cliff, I just want to make sure that we are not wasting our time with “rebuilding” when in the flip of a switch we can become a major contender. We have the market, we might have the money, and we have the guys to go along with THAT player.
But I do freaking love the team we have right now, so everyone please don’t get that wrong.
i’m with you on the playoff vs championship thing. I’ve been going on about that all damn year trying to convince people we needed to get rid of Arenas. i don’t care about making the playoffs; big woop.
even when you get a freak like Durant, it takes a lot more
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Aug 17, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The NBA rarely works that way. Teams don’t just buy FA or trade for big names and instantly become champions. There is a risk that is always involved. For every Boston big 3, there has been the Wizards big 3, Milwaukee’s big 3, the Blazers team full of former all-stars, Mavericks teams etc. etc. All I’m saying is, it is hard to add to a team that has some much in question. We might need SG too, because Arenas and Wall may not work, so do we try to sign the biggest SG out there too. At some point you have to evaluate what you have to see where you can go. I mentioned the Thunder and Blazers because although, they have built through the draft, they could easily make one big trade and become title contenders. The Wizards aren’t in that position. You can add any one player in the NBA and that doesn’t even guarantee the Wizards will win there division. You know why? Is McGee a center RIGHT NOW, that’s going to lead this team to a championship? Is Arenas going to step up stop some of the NBA best scorers, which happen to be at the SG position? The Wizards are just an unknown right now, but if all things go well we could be having this conversation next year with a much clearer picture of this team and what we need. I just don’t see how we could possibly go from a low level team to a contender with one player this year.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Aug 17, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The NBA rarely works that way. Teams don’t just buy FA or trade for big names and instantly become champions.
Definitely agree with you here. I understand there are restrictions and I am not really specifically talking about the Wizards, just the league in general.
For every Boston big 3, there has been the Wizards big 3
Don’t really think this holds any context to my point. Jameson, Butler and Arenas were not/are not half the players KG, Ray Allen and Pierce are. We are talking about 3 of the best players to ever play in their positions. That does not hold true with our former “big 3.”
I mentioned the Thunder and Blazers because although, they have built through the draft, they could easily make one big trade and become title contenders.
Exactly the point I am trying to make. You pair another superstar with Durant or Roy and the absolutely incredible supporting casts both those teams have, and there is a title contender all the way.
The Wizards aren’t in that position.
I disagree. Of course my Wizards homerism might be talking here, but this team is ready to start making a push towards elite status. You know why? Because of John Wall. He is the guy we need.
You can add any one player in the NBA and that doesn’t even guarantee the Wizards will win there division. You know why? Is McGee a center RIGHT NOW, that’s going to lead this team to a championship
McGee is going to become a star, you watch.
The Wizards are just an unknown right now, but if all things go well we could be having this conversation next year with a much clearer picture of this team and what we need. I just don’t see how we could possibly go from a low level team to a contender with one player this year.
Agreed and I have definitely not forgotten this.
A sign and trade would eliminate your concerns..
Carmelo will most likely want a sign-and-trade to take advantage of the current labor agreement.
Proxemity to Baltimore, new ownership, and John Wall would be contributing factors to getting this trade done.
by Stray Bullet on Aug 17, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Melo's under contract now
He’s not getting sign-and-traded until next summer, and Denver, I’d think, would trade him before that to get something of value before he left.
But isn't Denver offering him a three year extension?
I thought the rumors were that he would agree to the extension, and then be traded.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Aug 18, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
From CBS Sports -
The discussion has been hard and heavy that Anthony’s torn between the allure of a new team in free agency and wanting the financial security provided under this (presumably more player-favorable) CBA agreement. The idea was simple. Anthony wants the money, first and foremost, and for that he needs to stay in Denver. But that’s only if he enters free agency. IF ANTHONY WERE TO BE TRADED TO A NEW TEAM, THAT TEAM COULD THEN EXTEND HIM UNDER THE CURRENT CBA.
by Stray Bullet on Aug 18, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not understanding how this works
Matt’s saying what I’m trying to explain. Let me try again.
In a sign-and-trade, which can only be done when a player is a free agent, the contract is signed and immediately traded. The salary figure of the player is his new contract, not his old one.
HOWEVA
If he is traded prior to the summer, he is traded under the figure of his current contract (which expires after next season). The team can then negotiate an extension with him that would only kick in after his current contract expires.
Let’s use a non-Melo example.
Let’s say you have Player A. Player A signed a five-year, $50 million contract in 2006 that expires after the 2010/11 season. For the sake of our discussion, let’s say he made $10 million each season. Say he asks for a trade now. If he is traded between now and the end of the 2010/11 season, his salary figure in a trade is $10 million. Therefore, any team that’s over the cap has to match that. Upon being traded, however, his new team may decide they want to keep him around, and can negotiate an extension for, say, five years and $60 million. The first year of that contract is the 2011/12 season.
However, let’s say Player A’s team doesn’t trade him during the season. 2011 comes, and Player A is a free agent. Let’s say Team B wants to trade for him. To avoid losing him for nothing, Team A talks to Team B and agrees to a sign-and-trade. What happens now is that Team A gives him a five-year, $60 million contract, then immediately trades him to Team B. Player A’s salary figure in this trade is $12 million.
Make sense?
Worded correctly..... Trade and Extended
If Carmelo is traded prior to the end of the season, the new team will be able to negotiate a long term deal based on the current CBA (which will presumably be more favorable to players than the upcoming CBA).
Getting Carmelo this season, should be as franchise changing as LeBron to Miami, and John Wall (prayers answered) to DC.
And the best part is that the team that gives Denver the best trade scenario will UNDOUBTABLY be able to find out PRIOR to the trade if Carmelo will sign an extension, thus eliminating the risk of trading assets for a one-year rental.
Mike… Which answer did you choose for the poll question, and why??
by Stray Bullet on Aug 19, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Just read your "Pipe Dream" blog on SB Nation... Valid Points, but
One important missing item is.. if, as reported, Carmelo is demanding a trade, then Denver will have no choice but to trade him prior to the end of the season. This.. combined with the fact that Carmelo will still have final say where he is traded because his new team will want a guarantee that he will sign an extension, means that the proposal to Denver may have to only be better than the few teams that are in the running.
So… can the DC front office pull off a “Pat Riley”?
It may be a long shot, a pipe dream, a “when pigs fly”, and a “cold day in hell” scenario , but all options (excluding J Wall) should be explored to obtain this franchise player just entering his prime.
by Stray Bullet on Aug 19, 2010 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you got the gist of that one either
The Wizards cannot find the right combination of contracts to make salaries work unless Denver takes on Hinrich, which is almost certainly not happening. So even if Melo wants to come here, it doesn’t matter. The Wizards can’t make it work legally.
Also, Melo doesn’t have D.C. on his list.
Why didn't you think of
a 3rd team? Seems pretty simple to me. Hinrich still has some value. I wouldn’t want to help the Magic but they’d be kind of silly if they weren’t interested in Kirk. I’m sure there are plenty others as well. We then flip that expiring to the Nugs, easy peasy.
I did
No third team has both empty cap space and the desire to absorb Hinrich. Sacramento doesn’t need him. Oklahoma City doesn’t need him. Memphis probably doesn’t need him (though Conley’s been a disappointment). Minnesota and New Jersey don’t have the space anymore.
And like I tried to explain to you in a previous thread, you can’t acquire a player, no matter his contract status, and then immediately trade him, unless you trade him by yourself. If, for example, you deal Hinrich for, say, Mike Dunleavy or T.J. Ford of Indiana, you have to wait 60 days before you include either of those players in a package trade for anyone. The only way you can trade and flip players is if you do a straight up trade of Ford/Dunleavy for someone else.
To clarify further
Hinrich for Dunleavy, followed by Dunleavy/Blatche/Thornton/pick for Melo within two months=not allowed.
Hinrich for Dunleavy, followed by Dunleavy for a player or a combination of players=okay.
So make it a 3 team trade?
And why would the other team need to have cap space? Find a bad expiring contract and deal Hinrich for him.
Who wants Kirk Hinrich?
It’d be a lot easier to have this discussion if you gave some actual trade possibilities. At least then we’d have a baseline.
Also keep in mind that whichever team wants Kirk Hinrich has to accept that their trade facilitates a Wall-Melo union.
I don't mean to be a jerk about that comment
I’m just saying we’re getting nowhere unless we can think of a specific trade — I’m not going to accept that a Melo trade is possible until I see an actual three-team trade put on the table.
Disagree strongly!
Melo is not worth it and is not the future.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
He wouldn't be worth it
We’d have to give up too much. He’s a great scorer, but I don’t think he’d be the best or maybe even second best player on a title team, since he’s not a very high efficiency scorer or elite at anything else except maybe rebounding.
Follow me on twitter - http://twitter.com/TheRealTPruitt
Exactly.
We’d gut ourselves for a guy who’d be declining as Wall entered his peak, plus we’d be missing the other talent we have now that would be blossoming as well…disastrous.
We're from the city with the highest murder rate in the country. Why WOULDN'T they call us the Bullets?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Aug 19, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Just not sure if the Wiz are even on Carmelo's radar.
Plus I think we’d have to give up too much in the process, not sure if it would be worth it
Ya
What is your cohesive vision?
We're from the city with the highest murder rate in the country. Why WOULDN'T they call us the Bullets?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Aug 19, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I WISH
that melo doesnt get traded before start of the season
and that arenas plays well until february
and we trade away arenas and something like 1st pick for melo
that’d be way too goood to be true
True
The only way we even have a shot at Melo is if Denver waits until the trade deadline to deal him. In order for us to have a chance, Gil has to be playing at an all star level and generating national buzz—- in a positive way this time. Getting an all star back in the trade would ease the blow a little for Denver fans, which ownership is definitely thinking about. Also, McGee needs to be playing well too because he will definitely have to be included in the deal. If he is averaging 10 and 10 and producing highlight reel dunks Denver will certainly be demanding him. An exciting 22 yr old 7’1" center with an expiring contract that includes a team option plus an all star with Gil could give us at least a chance. I just dont know if denver would be willing to take Gils contract even if he is an all star. They probably would want us to take on one of their scrubs like renaldo balkman who makes 1.7 mil for the next three years. They would also want a first rounder to sweeten the deal.
analyzing that trade:
Wiz Get: Carmelo Anthony $17.2 (ETO 2011-2012 at 18.5 mil)
Renaldo Balkman $1.7 (3 years @ 1.7 mil)
Nuggets get: Gilbert Arenas $17.6 (we know all about his contract)
Javale McGee $1.6 (team option 2011-2012 $2.4 mil)
1st rd pick (probably top 18)
Once again this assumes Denver waits till the trade deadline, Gil is an all star, and Javale is playing well. Its not impossible, but I would say its a long shot.
Then you would have to hope Carmello even wants to stay once the year is up. That is another risk. I imagine we could probably get him resigned, we have a potential superstar in Wall at point, a young borderline all star in the post in Blatche (hopefully), and complementary pieces in Hinrich, Young, Booker, Seraphin, and Thornton. Not to mention we would still have a ton of money left over to sign good free agents in positions of need (Marc Gasol at center, or NeNe to reunite with Melo). i know his wife LaLa wants to be back in TV, well BET’s headquarters are here in DC if I am correct (tell me if im wrong) and I know she has done work at BET before.
But to be honest I’m not 100 percent sure I would even make that trade if I am Grunfeld. Yeah Melo is a top 5 player but if McGee is blossoming and turning into a top 10 center with his athleticism at the age of 22, wall lives up to the hype and Blatche builds on last year at the age of 23 plus Gilberts re-emergence as an all star would the front office want to mess with a good thing going on? I am not so sure if I would. You know our fan base will be going nuts for the squad even if we’re performing our way into a 6-8 playoff seed.
Obviously there are A LOT of things that need to happen for a deal like this to go down. It’s not impossible but its a huge long shot. I said I would not be sure if I would make that deal but if I had to (once again IF mcgee and arenas are playing great) then I would say yes, but it’s not as big of a slam dunk as I thought.
Do I think this deal will happen? helllll no
honestly the most i would want to give to denver for carmelo is
arenas and a 1st round pick, and maybe mcgee if he wasnt blossoming
but if mcgee was showing improvement no way i would want to see him go away
by Young Wook Lee on Aug 18, 2010 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard Melo is listing Orlando now...
Thats crazy man…we may have 2 super teams in our divison oh and Miami may be the best regular season team in the East, but I would still rank em below the Celtics come playoff time and the Bulls can pass em if they make another solid move…
by ATLredskin on Aug 17, 2010 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
3 team trade
Wizards get Carmelo Anthony
Denver gets Vince Carter (and maybe Al thornton)
Orlando gets Gilbert Arenas
not for denver and orlando lol
if you were denver would all you want back for anthony is cap relief and a no-longer-prospect thorton?
if you were orlando why would you want arenas instead of carmelo where they even already have jj redick to plug in right away at the 2?
but yes that trade does work fine with me lol
by Young Wook Lee on Aug 19, 2010 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions
never understood the melo love
not since that incident in the garden, that was it for me.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Aug 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
was it because he got in a fight or because he fought like a girl(no offense ladies)?
Him slapping that dude and running away was hillarious.
by BayAreaBullet on Aug 20, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, why should he have to get hit? The slap and run was a great move. B-More’s finest.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 20, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly...he's one of our own
Gotta show love to those who grew up from the same area I did. If you don’t love your own who do you love?
Have some LOYALTY! jeez
It's easy
elite talent wins in the NBA. Adding the 15th pick next year isn’t going to bring that. We should do what we have to to get Melo. Acquire an expiring + Blatche + 1st + filler. No one will top that offer and Melo gets to come home and be the hero.
Wall Arenas Melo Mcgee is a good start to a top team. Once Gil regains some value, I’d look to deal him for a defensive presence at PF or SG.
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