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99 questions and Gilbert's height ain’t one
Last week I was reading through the comment trails and I noticed a few comments about Gilbert Arenas’ height, or depending on your perspective lack thereof, for a NBA shooting guard. So I began to wonder how the tandem of Wall and Arenas measure up against other NBA backcourts.
Please note that the data was pulled from ESPN's NBA Depth Chart a little over a week ago and due to the continuing offseason moves the starters listed could have since changed.
PGs:
- Only 13% of the teams have PGs that are 6’4" and above
- 87% of the starting backcourts have PGs that are 6’3" or less
- Opposite ends of the spectrum:
- Chris Paul (Hornets), TJ Ford (Pacers), Jameer Nelson (Magic), Aaron Brooks (Rockets), Jonny Flynn (Wolves) and DJ Augustin (Bobcats) are the shortest starting PGs at 6’0"
- Rodney Stuckey (Pistons) is the tallest starter at 6’5"
SGs:
- 67% of the starting backcourts contain SGs who are 6’6" or greater
- 33% of the teams have starting SGs that are 6’5" or less
- Opposite ends of the spectrum:
- Eric Gordon (Clippers) and Monta Ellis (Warriors) are the smallest starting SGs at 6’3"
- Stephen Jackson (Bobcats) is currently the tallest starting SG at 6’8"
I also decided to look at the average height of the two starting guards to see what, if anything, this would indicate.
Combined Average Height:
- 80% of the teams in the NBA have a starting backcourt with a combined average height that is between 6’3" and 6’5"
- In fact, 57% (of the 80%) have a combined average height that is between 6’3" – 6’4"
- Only 10% of the starting backcourts have a combined average height equal to or greater than 6’5.5"
- Conversely, only 10% have a combined average height of less than or equal to 6’2.5"
- If we look quickly at the extremes:
- The shortest starting backcourts on average belong to New Orleans (6’2"), Memphis (6’2.5") and Miami (6’2.5")
- The tallest starting backcourts are Dallas (6’5.5"), Philadelphia (6’5.5") and Detroit (6’6")
There are clearly flaws with averaging the heights of the projected starting backcourts. However, it does make it easier to see that there are 3 (10%) teams that have, what I would define as a tall starting backcourt – a PG who is 6’4" or taller and a SG who is 6’6" or taller. Those teams are Dallas, Philadelphia and Detroit. Out of those three, only Dallas had a winning season last year.
Clearly there is much more that goes into being a successful team than the relative height of its starting backcourt. Let’s look at the final four teams in the NBA playoffs – Lakers, Celtics, Magic and Suns – none of which has the tallest backcourt on average. In fact, the Lakers, Magic and Celtics due to their relatively short starting PGs were actually on the bottom half of the distribution. However, I doubt that any of those teams are looking to dump their starting PG in order to improve the overall height of its backcourt.
The Wizards starting backcourt of Wall and Arenas is clearly tall enough that height alone will not be the determining factor of their success (or failure). More significant factors will be how those two play with and off of each other. Whether Gilbert, playing against two guards who are not as quick, actually improves defensively this season. Check that, whether he actually improves his defensive effort this season. How Gilbert fairs against taller SGs who will want to post him up? Whether he consistently contests shots? How hard he makes them work on the offensive end when they are now forced to guard him? There are likely 99 questions and his height ain’t one.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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Keep in mind, Arenas' wingspan is reportedly 6'9"
I’m not real concerned about whether he has the physical ability to get a hand up in a shooter’s face. I am concerned about whether he has any interest in defending, beyond playing the passing lanes for fast break opportunities.
We are in complete agreement
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 29, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm concerned about the matchups within our own division
D. Wade – 6’4" 220
J. Johnson – 6’7" 240
V. Carter – 6’6" 220
S. Jackson – 6’8" 215
G. Arenas 6’4" 215
Wade is the only SG close in size to Gil and he’s a top 3 player. Far superior player on offense and defense. Gil will be a constant liability in our division games.
On the bright side that is only 20 games.
If Gilbert is a liability in those games it will likely be due to his apparent lack of desire on the defensive end and not due to a size matchup. For the most part the weight is not a factor, he is virtually the same weight as all of the guards, save J Johnson – I couldn’t believe he was that heavy when I first saw it. As far as height, there isn’t a tremendous amount of difference between someone who is 6’4" and 6’6". Clearly a 6’7" or 6’8" guard, one would expect, should be able to get off a shot against a shorter guard. However, a shorter guard who is a solid defender (i.e Wade) can force that taller guards into more difficult shots. Which is why I say that height also is not a significant concern.
Gilbert has not demonstrated in the past that he was much interested in playing solid defense and if that attitude doesn’t change, it would not matter if he was 6’7". He would just be a 6’7" guard with poor defensive effort.
While he has a lot of blame to shoulder for his lack of defensive effort. There is also plenty to go around for the team. Even the best defensive players don’t usually shut down – not consistently anyway – an equally talented offensive player by himself. That requires all five to play solid defense across the board. So while Gilbert’s effort was far from stellar, he was also surrounded by equally poor team defensive players – and coaches who appeared to be comfortable with that.
Gilbert must increase his effort on defense significantly, but so do the other players on the floor.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 29, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually it's 16 games...
But you are right, Gilbert will need to play better defense in all of them.
Good catch
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
With some of those, it may be beneficial to switch up the match ups.
Put Wall on those SGs and put Gil on the PG. I’m pretty sure Wall has a longer wingspan and is quicker laterally on the defensive end. Why not stick Wall on Wade and stick Gil, who is defensively challenged on Arroyo or Chalmers or whoever else they can have at point guard. It could work depending on the teams and match ups problems they pose.
by ToughHibachi on Jul 30, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point. And I also like the idea that they have bodies to apply against the problem. If Gil is struggling to defend someone they do have Hinrich, Young and even likely Martin that they can try to match up with.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
is gil really 6'4"?
i never thought of him as that tall.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 29, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions
That's what he is listed in multiple places
But who knows if that is with shoes off or on. But as Satchmore points out he also has a long wingspan.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 29, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Wingspan can be misleading...
just so we’re clear, wingspan is different than vertical reach. Someone with wide shoulders may have a long wingspan even though they have short arms – and therefore a relatively short vertical reach (I would argue that vertical reach is more important than wingspan when it comes to defense, rebounding, and getting your shot off.) Likewise a skinny player may have long arms but because of their narrow body, have a short wingspan – that skinny player however may have impressive vertical reach.
Excellent point.
Wingspan can help in defending when trying to prevent or pick off a pass. However, you are dead on that vertical reach is more beneficial in all of the other defensive activities you list.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't think john wall is a legit 6'4" either
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Jul 29, 2010 11:47 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, i'm calling shenanigans on that as well
of course, every other player on that list is probably overstated by an inch or so, so it probably all balances out.
gil is so going to lock down d-wade, LOL.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 29, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There were more than a few when I first saw that list that didn’t seem right. For instance, I could not remember Rip Hamilton being 6’7" but everywhere I checked had him listed at that height. To your and LSC point, I bet many on this are not completely accurate but close enough.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
actually, i think rip is legitimately about that height
skinny dude that guy
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 30, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Great Article
I think the Wizards should be an improved defensive team. (last season they were ranked 20th among team defenses)
20th with Boykins, livingstone and Foye
Were better now with Wall, Hinrich, Booker and Howard. Yeay sure Gilbert is gonna have some difficulties against the Wades, the Kobes and JVM, AB, Thorton, Yi and Young are not exactly ‘lock down’ defenders but…
Im guessing arround 15th in the L this year? Thats not bad considering our strongpoint is offense!
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jul 30, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think offense will be our strongpoint next year
We don’t have anyone who can score particularly efficiently and we don’t have any shooters. I’m guessing 23rd in offense, 18th in defense, something like that.
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by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 30, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
When the Wizards typically struggle offensively it is when the settle for jumpers. If they get into a habit of getting to the rim more and generally taking closer shots then they should be fine offensively. They won’t lead the league in scoring, but my guess in that scenario is that they would finish higher than 23rd.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I do think it is our strong point because
the back court will push all the time, leading to a fast pace offense. I agree that we lack efficient scorers but on a high pace offense we get many FGA. I think that Wall and arenas can put up 30 points any night.
Furthermore McGee will up his ppg with more minutes especially on that high pace offense. If AB comes anywhere near his production of last season (post all star i mean) and we could get some reasonable production on a given night from any 2 or 3 random players out of the rest, whe could be doing pretty good offensively.
by Dutch Hoopfan on Jul 31, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember reading somewhere
that gil is actually about a little over 6’2" w/o shoes
DraftExpress has him at 6’3". The Wizards’ site has him at 6’4". Who knows what his actual height is. As MR said, I bet all of the players have an extra inch or two tacked on.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Two points
1) I don’t see what average height has to do with anything. If Arenas is too short to bother the man he is defending, I don’t see how the height of his backcourt mate changes that.
2) All of these listings are a bit off. Every player’s height is magnified in the NBA. It’s annoying, and I don’t know why they do it. But I think you have to subtract 1-3 inches from each player’s listed height. Especially if they come from overseas.
by MR on Jul 30, 2010 7:01 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I agree with the averaged height of both
not being a valued estimation. If Gil can stay in front of his man though I’d be happy. PLUS Blatche and McGee need to work on the pick and roll defense
I’m not extremely concerned about his height but if I were this argument would not soothe me. I AM concerned about his overall defense.
by MR on Jul 30, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
His overall defense is the concern, not his height. Come on MR we want you soothed. HA!
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I am "thirding" this assessment.
CJ you write good stuff, but this analysis is flawed.
When the Lakers go with their lineup of 3 guys listed at 7-feet plus (Odom, Pao, Bynum), it is not their “average” team height that is beating you. It is the 3 guys in the front court shooting over you and your 3 guys not being even able to get the rebound if they miss.
By the logic of your argument, Detroit having Rodney Stuckey and Rip Hamilton (averaging 6’6") in the backcourt is some kind of mitigating factor against the Lakers team height. But from the fact that we all own television sets we know that this is not the case.
The question is not how out backcourt defends someone else’s backcourt and it never was.
The question is whether Gilbert has the physical tools (meaning height and/or arm length) to defend the Vince Carters, Kobes, Kevin Martins, Brandon Roys, Manus, Carons and Joe Johnsons, all of which, according to your height chart, should be able to see over Gil easily.
Playing four other big guys (Wall, Yi, Blatche, JaVale) to boost the “average height” of the team isn’t relevant to whether the guys above get a shot off against Gil unless you are arguing for constant double-team or zone, which creates other defensive problems when that’s our base defense.
The issue
with Gil is not so much his height but his willingness to play defense. He has the physical capabilities (even with lacking height, his strength and wingspan can make up the difference). Showing fire is half the battle. If he can do that, he will be invaluable…Look @ how a guy like Kirk made a living off guarding 2s in the NBA (including becoming 2nd team all D)
by Meraj Chowdhury on Jul 30, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Showing that he is interested in playing solid defense
would be a good start. Or being equally prideful in his defense performance as he is in his offensive game.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Maybe I did not make my points clearly enough. I purposefully left out any mention of the front line players as what got me thinking about this was comments about Gil height playing the two. So let’s set aside your comments about the Lakers frontline for this discussion. (I do agree that they are difficult because they are long and skilled.)
My purpose for using an average height of the PG/SG was to get a sense of who actually had a tall backcourt. A team does not have a tall backcourt, for example, if the PG is 6’0" and the SG is 6’7". Based on that, I wanted to see where the Wizards average height was compared to the rest of the league’s starters.
I agree that once you look at an individual matchup with Gilbert versus any other two, it will not matter what the average height is for that team’s backcourt. That was not the point I was attempting to make. My point was supposed to be that there are other SGs who are his height and smaller who are starting in the NBA. Some of those who are his height or smaller are also very good defenders who don’t get torched by those who are taller simply because they are taller guards. Those players who are Gilbert’s height or smaller are better defenders mainly due to effort, motivation on the defensive end and studying a players tendencies.
Yes, a taller player should be able to get off a jumper over a shorter player. However that shorter player by playing sound defense can contest that shot making it more difficult for the taller player to successfully score. I also wanted to point out that it isn’t just about playing defense alone. Even the best defenders against equally talented offensive players will only be successful if the rest of their team is playing good solid team defense.
Yes Gilbert needs to improve his defensive effort, but the entire team has to improve defensively as well. If both things occur, Gilbert’s height will not be the issue.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Then you should have just given us a list of the height of SGs.
by MR on Jul 30, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair point
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the pg heights are relevant
Gil and Wall could easily switch from time to time, maybe letting Wall cover the Rip Hamilton’s who are taller but not particularly physical, if the opposing point guard isn’t huge or ridiculously quick.
By the way, I’m really not looking forward to us trying to guard Kobe. He always burns Dallas (Howard) and he’s too big for Gil or Wall. Plus, he probably still has an axe to grind with Gilbert.
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by pantslessyoda1 on Jul 30, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
And standing reach is the “height” that matters in basketball. For example, Nate Robinson and I are the same height, but his standing reach is 4.5" higher than mine (and 3" higher than Jerome Randle’s, who’s an inch and a half taller).
Standing Reach (from combine measurements on DraftExpress):
Gilbert Arenas = 8’3.5" (same as OJ Mayo)
John Wall = 8’5.5" (0.5" inches higher than Brandon Roy, and 0.5" lower than DWade. And surprisingly, 1" higher than Nick Young)
Standing reach only matters if you put your hands in the air to play defense.
Maybe Arenas needs to work on that first.
by MR on Jul 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if someone points a gun at him...
We're from the city with the highest murder rate in the country. Why WOULDN'T they call us the Bullets?
by Bullet Nation in Exile on Jul 31, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
@malharden
When the Lakers go with their lineup of 3 guys listed at 7-feet plus (Odom, Pao, Bynum), it is not their "average" team height that is beating you. It is the 3 guys in the front court shooting over you and your 3 guys not being even able to get the rebound if they miss.
Agreed, but not the point of my post.
By the logic of your argument, Detroit having Rodney Stuckey and Rip Hamilton (averaging 6’6") in the backcourt is some kind of mitigating factor against the Lakers team height. But from the fact that we all own television sets we know that this is not the case.
I don’t see how you can make this point. I was not making any comparisons between players in the backcourt versus those in the front. And while the data showed that Detroit has a tall backcourt, I pointed out that this does not necessarily translate into wins & losses. On a position by position basis in the NBA, I don’t think the difference of an inch or two is what separates the best players. Rodney Stuckey will NEVER be Chris Paul even though he is 5 inches taller than Paul. Just as Wade at 6’4" is a superior player to Stephen Jackson at 6’8". My point has been and will continue to be that height is not the most pressing issue facing Gilbert in his matchups against other SGs. It is far down the list of concerns.
The question is not how out backcourt defends someone else’s backcourt and it never was.
IMHO it is improved team defense, but Gilbert must show improved focus and effort on the defensive end. As we have seen, one player can kill the overall team defensive effort.
The question is whether Gilbert has the physical tools (meaning height and/or arm length) to defend the Vince Carters, Kobes, Kevin Martins, Brandon Roys, Manus, Carons and Joe Johnsons, all of which, according to your height chart, should be able to see over Gil easily.
I don’t completely agree with this. Whether or not they stand an inch or two taller than him isn’t the point. If so, why aren’t these same players torching D Wade? How did Hinrich at 6’3" become an All NBA defensive player? They do not need to block the taller players jump shots to be successful. All they have to do is get a hand in their face in order to make the shot more difficult. To be successful you need to shave fractions of a percent off of that persons shooting percent. If you are in a good position, force them to do what you want them to do (versus what they like to do) and get a hand up then you have done your job and likely forced them to miss a bit more. What he can’t do is just let them take uncontested shots – but that is about effort and not height.
Playing four other big guys (Wall, Yi, Blatche, JaVale) to boost the "average height" of the team isn’t relevant to whether the guys above get a shot off against Gil unless you are arguing for constant double-team or zone, which creates other defensive problems when that’s our base defense.
I never made this argument. I never argued for boosting the average height of the backcourt let alone the team. My point is and was that Gilbert’s height will not determine how successful he is on the defensive end against SGs. The same issues that dogged him defensively as a PG will dog him now if he does not improve them. There have been and likely will always be successful SGs that are his height or smaller who are successful on the defensive end and it is because they work hard at it, take pride in it and very likely play on a team whose plays with a consistent team defensive effort.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Defense takes energy
If Wall plays with energy on defense then Gilbert will… and so on. I dont think Arenas will have a problem unless Wall does
by Andrew Tawiah on Jul 30, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And having serviceable backups. When his energy or effort drop they have people who they can substitute in that they believe will give effort – Hinrich because that’s what he does and Young who plays good 1:1 defense AND its a contract year.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points, MR
I also questioned using the average height of both players, but I found it interesting to get a sense of who truly had a tall back court. It also helped to clarify that some teams had tall two guards but relatively small ones. Whatever Gilbert’s true height, if his wingspan is as long as we have all been lead to believe that it is, then he should not have any issue contesting any guards shot. That is assuming he decides to play solid, fundamental defense and not just hang in the passing lanes. Hinrich at 6’3" has been an All-NBA Defensive player so has Paul at 6’0" and Wade at 6’4". Their height hasn’t stopped them. These players and others have been good defenders because they have put forth the effort and worked at it. Plus how often have we watched the better defenders, playing team defense, make the offensive person go to their weak hand or prevent them from driving in order to take a contested shot?
I have no doubt that those numbers are not completely accurate, but it was an interesting exercise none the less. All teams, on nearly every level, particularly in Basketball and Football play games with a players height.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd think Wall and Gil would switch a lot
And that Howard would check the bigger, slower shooting guards like Johnson (who’s basically a small forward).
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The Hawks
Should be equally concerned with Johnson at 6’7" & 240 having to guard quicker/faster guards. You are right he is basically a SF.
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by CJ Hempfield on Jul 30, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
There are a few of those on this list...the SG, SF tweeners
Caron Butler
Joe Johnson
Stephen Jackson
sefolosha
ours would be Josh Howard
by Carlos Returns on Jul 30, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot questions other than height
1) In the past, Flip has stuck to his position that the best player must be the leader. Will he back off of that position, and declare Wall the leader
2) where is Gil’s head? Will he be pouting? Will he be trying to prove himself and/or get traded? Will he give up playing with the young players’ heads? Will he try to fit in or be an entertainer? Will he try to improve at D?
3) how is Gil’s knee?
4) Will Flip cut McGee, Blatche and Wall some lack and let them make errors after errors after errors until they learn?
5) Are McGee, Blatche and Wall ready for 35 minutes a game?
6) When will Howard return to action, assuming the team will be challenged with Thorton at SF?
7) What is a realistic W-L record for the first 20 games?
Those questions are fair
But they’re not the subject of this post – so I think it’s kind of irrelevant to ask them here.
joe dumars was 6'3"
and he was a great defender
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions
gil's defense
funny thing is when gilbert came into the league he was known as a very good defender…even his rookie season he was considered a good defender…as he became the focal point of the offense, his defense naturally suffered, and I say naturally because there are only a few players in the league who play outstanding offense, and outstanding defense….but gilbert can play D when it matters….
anyone remember that playoff game where hinrich stole the ball…was racing down the court in the final minute…and gilbert catches him from behind and swats his layup off of the top of the backboard?…gilbert saved the game by swatting that layup…he has ability so hopefully now that wall will be taking some pressure off offensively, he will be able to step up his defense
provides no defense at the PG spot
So it doesn’t really matter if he is at the 1 or 2. Either way he is a huge negative. Plus I honestly think he can defend 2’s better, assuming he tries.
I think that
Gilbert would be best suited guarding 2’s. In my opinion it wasn’t size that was his weakness on defense, it was his ability to guard laterally.
by qthaballa on Jul 30, 2010 7:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs

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