Ranking Ernie Grunfeld among his peers
by Mike Prada on Jul 22, 2010 3:37 PM EDT
in Free Agency
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PrintI haven't been around much the last couple days because I was working on this article for SBNation.com ranking all 30 NBA GMs, using as qualitative an analysis as possible. Anyway, I decided to rank Ernie Grunfeld 18th, which is a lot higher than I thought I'd rank him when I began the analysis. Below the jump, my thoughts on Ernie:
There's a big misconception that Grunfeld has no plan with anything he's doing. That's really not true at all. In fact, it's quite the opposite -- Grunfeld sticks to "plans" so diligently that he doesn't fulfill his other duties as a general manager.
Like Rick Sund in Atlanta, Grunfeld stuck himself between a rock and a hard place coming into the pivotal 2008 offseason. He did extremely well on many of his early moves in D.C., but began clogging up his cap with long contracts to so-so players. When it came time to decide what to do with Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison, Grunfeld was faced with the same "status quo vs. really slow rebuild" quandary. He chose the former, and considering he worked for an owner (Abe Pollin) that was in his 80s and had no time for a long rebuild, he sort of had no choice. That also explains many of his moves after 2008, such as the trade for Mike Miller and Randy Foye. His owner wanted a veteran team that could win right now, so Grunfeld had to give it to him. Now, he's carrying out new owner Ted Leonsis' vision, and so far, he's sticking to the plan.
That said, there are two troubling things about Grunfeld. First, he seems to neglect the draft far too often. He's traded a top-five pick twice in his GM tenure for non-all stars, and the picks he has made (prior to 2010 of course) have all been shot-in-the-dark picks. Some of Grunfeld's projects have worked out, but he should have been augmenting those picks with players more ready to contribute right away.
Second, he consistently fails to get good value on his trades, especially recently. While the Miller/Foye trade fulfilled a plan, Grunfeld depreciated the value of his best asset (the fifth pick) by making his intentions of trading the pick way too public. He also only got expiring contracts (for the most part) for Butler, Haywood and Jamison, and took on a far bigger contract in Hinrich than other teams looking to pick up assets from clubs dumping salary to get under the cap (i.e. Houston and Oklahoma City).
In the end, Grunfeld certainly knows what he's doing, but loses a lot of points for his shaky execution of his boss' visions.
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Great article, but I must say that I disagree with your top 2. I think we are jumping the gun way too soon on Riley, although he did a masterful job of getting 3 of the top players in the league, it still remains to be seen just how good of a move that really was. If that team doesn’t go to the finals, it will be considered a colossal failure. Outside of this summer, Riley hasn’t really done much else in the past few years. His drafting has been mediocre (Chalmers and Beasley) and he struggled building around Wade after the Shaq-Wade era and before the attempt to relieve cap space.
I also disagree with Kevin O’Connor being ranked so high. Anybody can put together a consistent mediocre playoff team, but he has yet to build a legit contender in the time that he has been there. I think anytime your star player comes out and states that this team needs better pieces around, I think that is an indictment on the FO not putting the players out there to build a contender. The team itself has done very little to progress consistently after just only one Conference Finals appearance. The success outside of that one year has been marginal for a Western Conference power.
In my opinion, I would still have O’Connor in the top 10, but Riley still has to prove himself more to be ahead of Kupchak and Buford considering they won more championships despite him being there at least 4 years before both of them.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
Very interesting
It is easy in a results-oriented business to want to boil everything down to wins/losses. But as you point out each team has its own unique situation that does not make that a fair or true comparison. Wins/Losses are one item in which a GM should be measured, but it should not be the measure.
Results influence the plan that a GM puts into action. By that I mean the ultimate result they expect to achieve, deep down. Not the BS they say out loud, such as "our goal is to win a championship." That is not a realistic short-term goal for every team in the NBA, it may be for about 6-8 teams, but not the other 22.
So we can probably grossly generalize the plans that teams employ into three categories, which are based primarily on the team’s Win/Loss record – Contender, Challenger, and "PingPongBaller":
- If you are a championship contender – then your plan will largely focus on maintaining your position & making that move or two that you hope will put you over the top
- If you are a challenger (middle tier team) – your plan will focus on getting your team possibly a coach, but more likely two or more players that you need in order to be in the contending group
- If you are "PingPongBaller" – your plan is more likely the most heavily dominated by securing a coach, plus building a foundation that you hope will allow your team to consistently win in the future
I also wonder if for those GMs who appeared to have no plan, if it was more a situation in which they much too frequently changed their plan? Either way, both situations are equally as destructive to the franchise.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 23, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
With O'Connor
You also have to consider that he’s only had one top-five pick and has an ownership group who won’t always pay the luxury tax.
I too think you're giving Riley too much credit
I don’t believe they were the only team to have creatively created cap space for the FA class of 2010. He was assisted by his locale, his spendy owner, and a lot of luck.
If Lebron “decided” to sign with the Knicks, Nets, Bulls etc Riles would be way down the list. That is putting too many of your eggs in the basket of that one player decision.
Unless you think the landing of the big 3 was a long term coup, in which case he’s a genius but is guilty of tampering (which by the way is what I believe happened).
by MR on Jul 22, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The Heat were the only team to clear enough space for all three
Those other teams could only do it for two.
But isn’t that primarily because they already had one of them on the roster?
by jones-y on Jul 22, 2010 7:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In all fairness, the Heat clearing all that cap space doesn’t really mean much because Chicago already had Derrick Rose, so there was no need for them to make room for 3 players. That doesn’t mean that their moves weren’t good. I mean anybody can clear cap space, but that doesn’t necessarily make them great. New Jersey did the same thing and they probably lost out more than anybody. And judging from the Adrian Woj…(Yahoo! Sports) article, sounds like Wade had a lot to do with Lebron coming too, so did Riley really need to do that much? His method may pan out but it also can blow up in his face.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jul 23, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Certainly, Riley needed help
But he also had to clear that space to even legally sign those guys. All of Wade’s wooing would have meant nothing if Riley didn’t embark on that two-year long-term plan successfully.
i agree that buford was too low
he deserves a lot of credit for pre-2002 moves like drafting parker and ginobili. i might have even put him #1, but i guess it’s a what have you done for me lately kind of thing. kupchak was probably too low too.
i also think pritchard is generally overrated and that he was too high.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 23, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s understandable but he really hasn’t drafted well with the picks he has had. I mean the last two players that he has drafted that has become productive in the NBA are Paul Millsap and Ronnie Brewer and both of them were back in 2006. I can understand your analysis, but in my opinion, I just don’t think he’s done that great of a job getting players. Jerry Sloan, in a lot of ways, makes his process look better because he gets the best out of his players. I’m sorry but I don’t see how Kosta Koufos fits anybody’s process. There’s a lot of players that he has gotten that have not stuck in the NBA. They’re just not that good and if he didn’t have Deron Williams that team would be a lottery team every year.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jul 22, 2010 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
I couldn't disagree more
That’s understandable but he really hasn’t drafted well with the picks he has had
Here’s his record.
Deron Williams (3rd, 2005), Gordon Hayward (9rd, 2010), Ronnie Brewer (14th, 2006), Kris Humphries (14th, 2004), Kirk Snyder (16th, 2004), Sasha Pavlovic (19th, 2003), Eric Maynor (20th, 2009), CJ Miles (34th, 2005), Paul Millsap (47th, 2006), Mo Williams (47th, 2003),
2004 was bad, and 2003 was eh. But to get guys like Maynor, Miles, Millsap and Mo Williams after the 20th pick is pretty amazing. There’s also Wes Matthews and Fesenko, who weren’t even drafted. If that’s bad drafting, then I don’t really know what good drafting is.
There’s a reason that team is always better than the sum of it’s parts, and it’s because of both O’Connor and Sloan.
You’ve got to be kidding me. We’re talking about mostly mediocre NBA players. Most of them wouldn’t break any team’s starting lineup. You don’t think Daryl Morey drafting Aaron Brooks (26th, 2007), Chase Budinger (44th, 2009), Jermaine Taylor (32nd, 2009), Steve Novak (32nd 2006), and acquiring Luis Scola and Carl Landry was better than that. To me Daryl Morey has been able to find better talent, but has struggled to have as much success due to injuries to his key players. If we want to grade on process, then Morey was able to find talent for less and has put players that have far more potential than O’Connor has.
O’ Connor players have struggled for the most part to be productive in the NBA. Although his draft history isn’t awful, there are definitely other GMs who have done a better job.
Wes Matthews (I know he wasn’t drafted) was a great find, so was Millsap, Mo Willams, and of course Deron Williams. Outside of those guys, nobody else really sticks out on that list. We’re not even talking about players struggling to fit a system, we’re talking about players who are struggling to find minutes in this league. If we can grade Grunfield on doing such a bad job producing players in the draft then I don’t see how O’Connor has done that much better.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jul 22, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Millsap=Landry
Miles>Budinger
Brooks>Williams, but draft position keeps Mo caught up
Maynor>Taylor – Taylor hasn’t done anything on the NBA level
Steve Novak stinks
Matthews is great for being undrafted
Scola was acquired in a trade
I strongly urge you to pay more attention to how much those guys Utah drafted are playing. Miles was the starter for most of the season and can play. Maynor was a very good backup point guard as a rookie. And those Rockets guys you listed – Brooks and Landry were great finds, Budinger is good but not better than Miles, and Taylor and Novak haven’t done anything.
And that’s only when you compare O’Connor’s record to one of the best drafting GMs in basketball.
The two are pretty close though
Both are great GMs, and I can’t quibble with putting one over the other.
Daryl Morey's examples were not impressive
Budinger’s overrated by the way. On the flip side, Maynor’s the real deal. That guy will be around for a while.
Budinger's way overrated, huh?
Please explain how a rookie second-round draft pick who averaged nearly ten points per game is “overrated.” Most second-round picks rarely live to see the court for more than a few seasons.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
8.9 ppg in 20 mpg which most rooks don't get
Your point that he was the 14th pick in the second round is valid and should provide perspective. Mind you, I’m going virtually entirely on projecting my views of his game moving forward. Stats don’t tell everything, but I understand they tend to be more widely respected than my own empirically unsubstantiated views. Nonetheless, I’m right…the guy’s wack.
by Jim America on Jul 23, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
And I have a different "unsubstantiated" view
I think Budinger was a Mid-First round talent, that slipped to the second round (similar to DeJuan Blair), where one of the best General Managers in the NBA snapped him up (just like Blair to the Spurs)…
He’s got everything needed to be a very good swing man in the NBA – except a consistent mid-range jumper (and he’s working on that)… and his defense is suspect….. (but name me ONE Rookie lock-down defender)…
He’s extremely athletic… and got 20 minutes of playing time on a very good Rockets team. He had decent shooting percentages: 37% from three, 44% overall, 77% from the line… and he helped out with boards (5.9 per 40) and assists (2.4 per 40)…
His 14.15 PER suggests that with normal progression, he should be an above average NBA player in a year or two….
If anything – I’d say Budinger was underrated.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
And by the way....
I’ve liked Budinger for a while now….
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/6/23/922806/what-about-the-2nd-round
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
And that’s why I respect your opinion. I don’t necessarily agree but I can see why you might say O’Connor is better than Morey. It is very close.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jul 23, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
psssst
in your article you have “Antonio Butler” listed as a Grunfeld FA signing.
Also
You have Mcgee as a 2009 draft pick.
by NOVAHOOSIER on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
mcgee
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Team-USA-no-sure-thing-at-FIBA-World-Championship
interesting article about team usa where rosen thinks mcgee should and will make the squad
Say what you want you want about Grunfeld
I compare him to other GMs in wizards/bullets past. If you do Grunfeld looks like an absolute genius. Look at some of the winners the wizards drafted. John"hot plate" Williams. Mel Turpin. Ofcourse they passed over Karl Malone to draft a player who was with them for about one season. The list wil go forever on. What Grunfeld has brought to the wiz is stabilityHe did trade Veermenko for Hinrich, the 6’9" french Igoudala and 3 million in cash. Who ever thought Veermenko was worth so much. He drafted Pecherov, but then drafted Blatche out of the second round. He brought in Arenas. So its hits and misses which is alot better than GMs in Wizards past. To Grunfelds defense Eddie Jordan wasn’t his guy and it was clear they were reading the same playbook. Pollin was Pollin. He is no longer with us so I will not write anything more. The best time to judge him is now. Saunders is his guy. New owner and they have a game plan. From here on out its all on Grunfeld. But overall, I’ll take him over any wiz/buyllet gm in the last 35 years. The last time the wiz/bullets did anything right was trading for elvin hayes. In a way, Grunfeld is a godsend.Besides, he got Saunders to coach this team unless you would prefer Leonard Hamilton. .
John "Hot Plate" Williams
Was one of the most talented players to ever wear a Bullets uniform, and was just beginning to fulfill his potential when he suffered that career-ending injury on the floor of the Cap Center. I was there that day, and it was the second-most sickening moment I suffered as a Bullets fan (the first being the loss of Gus Johnson). Drafted before he graduated, Williams was a poster-boy for the dangers I have warned of, of heaping too many minutes on a young player. At his best, he was like a cross between Magic Johnson and Big Baby Davis, with a sweet 3-point shot, and could play four positions, including point guard, point forward, and center.
A few days after that sickening pop of his knee, I ran into Darrell Walker at a Kemp Mill Record Store. Walker, known as “Walkie-Talkie” to his teammates, was both approachable and very smart about the game. When I asked him when Williams would be coming back, he just stared at me like I was a moron. “Pretty much never”, he said finally. “They gave him too many minutes too fast, he should have been riding the pine—dude was 20, 30 pounds too heavy to play that much. But they needed a star to sell to the fans.”
I refer to it as "career-ending"
BTW, because it basically was. He came back a couple of times with the Bullets and another team, but was nothing but a shadow of his former self and didn’t last long.
Are you Hot Plate?
You must be John Williams. Or you are so stoned on something I want some. I don’t even know where to begin with that assertion.
Your rudeness
is matched only by your ignorance of what you’re talking about. Google him.
Williams was averaging 18 and 8 in 89-90
And then he got hurt.
Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.
by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Jul 22, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Some more context
Mark Jackson called him the best big man he ever played with. In addition to the knee injury in ‘89, 2 of his closest friends died while he was sidelined. I’m not saying that the weight wasn’t his fault, but to say the GM was an idiot for drafting him is pretty stupid. The guy had skills.
Kevin McHale on John Williams
During one of the summer league NBA Channel broadcasts of the Wizards, Kevin McHale mentioned John Williams and how good he was. McHale said that he couldn’t guard Williams. So yeah, he was good.
Exactly!
John Williams outta LSU in 86 was GREAT…then…the rest is history…kudos about D Walker, he was a gamer
Rod Langway magically teaches Mike Green how to clear and check the opposition from his own defensive zone. Lets Go Caps !
by Mikko Leinonen's opposite on Jul 23, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I will begin again.
To say that John Williams was one of the most talented players ever for Washington? Where does that come from? You may like John Williams and I rememberdarrell Walker as a player but to claim that John Williams was one of the most talented players ever is a leap I cannot take. I watched John Williams but he was alot more hype than he was ever a player. I remember when he was drafted, I remember all the hype about him. And he was no magic Johnson. He was overweigtght with marginal skills that he could barely use. He did nothing for the Bullets at the time except eat. In another universe I am sure thaT he might have been a far more talented player. But in this universe he simply wasn’t. Mel Turpin was a highly coveted player and he did nothing for the Bullets. He had tons of talent and it went nowhere in the NBA. John Williams did not come into the league and everyone was oooohing over him. In fact, he was in many ways a detriment to the team. Maybe he didn’t think so but alot of other people did. I mean he was the butt of alot of jokes because he certainly didn’t take his NBA career as seriously as he maybe should have. Comparing him to Magic Johnson is absurd. I don’t rememeber anyone in dc who thought Hot Plate was a Hall of Famer. You may blame his misfortune on bad luck but I blame it on the fact that he didn’t care that an organization paid him and he didn’t perform because he didn’t care.
how long you been holding
this grudge against williams?
wow
That’s one history that you’re completely lost on. John Williams was one of the most promising moments of Bullets/Wizards history since the 80s.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 23, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Williams and Turpin
John Williams was a valuable member of the 87-89 Wizards and highly regarded throughout the league. It was only after his devastating knee injury and subsequent weight gain did he become the butt of jokes. Larry Brown thought so highly of Williams that he traded for the post injury overweight version of Williams when he was coaching the Clippers and then brought him to Indiana when he coached the Pacers. Williams was never a detriment to the team when he was healthy. He was the ultimate glue guy who made his teammates better.
And although the Bullets did draft Mel Turpin, they did it for Cleveland. He was immediately traded to Cleveland for Cliff Robinson(the one out of USC, not UConn). He only joined the Bullets late in his career and only then as a backup for one season.
Fantastic Article
Read it the entire ride home on the metro. Very interesting and great analysis. I love that you didn’t take the easy route out and make Kahn 30- it was a truly unbiased ranking. Thanks
I never called Bob Ferry an idiot
I certainly did not call him an idiot for drafting hot plate. I see no one comes to Mel Turpins defense. Hot Plate was a okay but not very dedicated player who never panned out. Averaging 18 and 8 for a moribund franchise is not impressive. In fact, it emphasizes my point about the past GMs Washington has had. I also perceive some revisionist history going on. I watched hot plate.Too call him one of the greatest players ever in the Washington franchise history is beyond my comprehension. If he were one of the greatest then that is a really really sad statement about the Washington franchise. I was never out to pick on hot plate anyway. I could go on a litany of examples of the players washington has picked who didn’t go anywhwere. If hot plate was one of the greatest then what do we say about Greg Ballard? Hall of Fame or what?.
Too call him one of the greatest players ever in the Washington franchise history is beyond my comprehension.
Yes, it would be kinda like saying John Wall is one of the greatest players ever in franchise history. Hopefully noone’s actually saying that (about Williams or Wall), but that’s not really the point anyways.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 23, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you keep saying are they a Hall of Famer?
Is that the only way you evaluate a draft pick…HoFer = good pick…non-HoFer = bust? Granted we could have had Bernard King or Jack Sikma in that draft, but didn’t we win a championship that year? I guess I’ll take that every time.
You want to talk about bad picks/moves, then talk about George Johnson, Stan Love (yes, Kevin’s pops), trading a first rounder for Steve Malovic, Kenny Green (one pick before Karl Malone), trading the 8th pick to the Mavs (Detlef Schrempf) for two nobodies, Tom Hammonds (better stock car driver than basketball player), CALBERT CHEANEY! Sorry, I had a bit of a spasm there. Just saying you’re not really picking out the best ones, but, yes, the Bullets have a history of poor front office decisions. I would prefer to have a thread about the best ones they’ve had though, because there were some really underrated ones.
by Jim America on Jul 23, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
For what it's worth
I’m reading the book Just Ballin’ right now, and Grunfeld isn’t looking too good. That probably doesn’t have a whole lot to do with the Wizards, but it is sort of showing how he operates behind the scenes. Oh, and he’s not exactly the best evaluator of talent either.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
Say what you will about Grunfeld
He was GM when the knicks had a decent team and he turned the wizards into a playoff team during his tenure. And so I think he will be judged by the team the Wizards have now.
If they aren’t very good in a couple of years he failed. AS for talent, is Blatche or McGee or Young or Booker talented? Thats what everyone in Washington is waiting to see. Yet, he has changed the Washington franchise. At least as a fan I can set my goals a little higher than long ago. You get the feeling that there is hope and he did score Saunders so that adds a little more hope. There so many ways you can compare GMs.. I simply ask, does he come into a team and have a positive impact.. He did for the knicks and he did for the Wizards. How he leaves a franchise is another matter. But then whoever goes out on top. Another thing is the Owners have so much influence that the GM does what the owner wants. The owner wants this and the coach wants that and the salary caps dictate that and so on.Grunfeld shouldn’t have traded that 5th pick last year and if Leonosis and not Pollin had own the team last year he wouldn’t have. He did what the owner wanted him to do. One thing I can say about Grunfeld, he is responsive.In the same year he tried to make a playoff run for the owner and then dumped salary all over the place. He is a can do guy. They wanted more draft picks and he turned Veermenko into the 17th pick of the draft. He turnedthe 30th and 35th of the draft into the 23rd and 57th pick and dumped Foye and Miller and turned them into Hinrich the chinese guy.In so doing he cut salary and got two players who are trade worthy next year.He can get more picks.If I were an owner I would like Grunfeld.
I live in Hawaaii. Its still early for me so I get the last words re hot plate
Hot plate. All hype always potential but a bust. All the things he could do if he wasn’t so fat like moving. He moved like an oaf. He took terrible shots because of that. But then history can be kind to some people. Back when he was playing no one in DC said he was one of the most talented players Washington has ever had. In fact, he was considered another Ferry bust in the works. How long before he eats himself out of the league was the real conversation as you watched Williams sluggishly wheel around for another ill advised shot. Potential is not talent and if Mark Jackson said Williams was the best big man he ever played with that is because he didn’t play with him in DC. I am sure I can find someone say the say thing about Kwame Brown. Kwame was the best big man I ever played with. Mel Turpin was the best big man I ever played with. Roger Phegley was the best shooting guard I ever played with. Ricky Green was unbelivable! I’d take Greg Ballard over anyone of them. He stuck around for awhile. At least he had an NBA career.
Please find me a quote of a Mark Jackson caliber player that said Kwame was the best big man he ever played with
You’re talking out of your bum, sir. You’re in Hawaii. Go outside.
by Jim America on Jul 23, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry for not allowing you the last word
>Back when he was playing no one in DC said he was one of the most talented players Washington has ever had.
Lots of people said that, at least from the perspective of potential. Yes, he ended up a bust, but people in DC and elsewhere were really high on him and justifiably so.
And Kwame Brown is a terribly misguided analogy. He never showed much potential or reason for hope on the court.
I remember when Calbert Cheney was a rookie
A WaPo columnist wrote that they should ship out the whole team but keep the promising rookie and build around him.
this is very entertaining
love to see people getting fired up about obscure players from the 80’s.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 23, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions
Hey, that's my wheelhouse!!
80s basketball and 80s music! Don’t know a thing about anything thats happened since.
KAAAAHHHNNN
is the worst GM in the league. How many point guards do you need? 4, apparently.
He thinks Darko is Vlade Divac. NUFF SAID
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