SB Nation DC Editor's Pick
Why does Gilbert Arenas need a change of scenery?
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 21, 2010 3:35 PM EDT
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PrintThis afternoon Daniel Marks of Dime Magazine published an article entitled, "10 NBA players who need a change of scenery." And not surprisingly Gilbert Arenas was on the list. There are many people who have talked about his "cancerous" impact on the team from Tony Kornheiser to Charles Barkley. However, few logically detail why they believe that he must go.
Marks seems to share many of the same viewpoints as others in the national media:
10. Gilbert Arenas — I think Arenas can return to be an elite player in the NBA this season, it just shouldn’t be in Washington. Arenas and John Wall would make a scary backcourt, but Arenas needs the ball in his hands a great deal of the time, which won’t happen with Wall there. Last year the Wizards broke up their "Big Three" by shipping Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison out of town, and Arenas is probably next. The move would be for the better for both sides, as Arenas was seen as a pariah in D.C. last year, and needs to restart his career somewhere else.
via dimemag.com
Here are the elements of his argument:
Gilbert can return to be an elite player this season… just not in Washington.
Barring an injury it is likely that Gilbert will at least match his statistics from last year’s suspension shortened season – 22.6 PPG, 7.2 APG, 1.3 STL. It is important to point out that he generated these statistics while struggling during his 32 game stretch with trying to become a true PG. If he is fully healthy and he can focus on being a scorer who can pass, it is very likely to think that his scoring numbers could increase to the 25+ range.
With that said, his value is low right now due to the questions about his health, some who are concerned about his "baggage" and it would not make any sense for a rebuilding Wizards team to trade him right now. If they were interested in trading him – which the Majority Owner, Ted Leonsis, President/GM, Ernie Grunfeld and head coach, Flip Saunders, have all said they were not interested in doing – it would benefit the team to let him prove his health and ability to perform. Doing this provides them with the best chance to get something of value in return for trading Gilbert.
What you don’t do is trade a guy who could once again a potential all-star level performer for a bunch of garbage in the off-season, just to get rid of him. That type of move may help some, mostly non-Washingtonians, feel better but would not benefit the franchise.
Arenas and Wall would make a "Scary backcourt"
How is this an argument to trade him? If the "extra rest" that Gilbert’s knee received during his suspension has allowed him to get close to what he was prior to the injuries (or even what he was last season), then the Wizards will have a scary backcourt on the offensive end. Even last year, Gilbert was able to prove that he was still quick enough to get past nearly every defender who was watching him. That would give the Wizards one of, if not the fastest starting backcourts in the league.
The bigger challenge is on the defensive side of the ball. Gilbert has never been mistaken for a "lockdown" defensive player will have his work cut out for him covering twos. He may benefit from having to guard SGs who are generally not as quick or fast as him. However, he will likely have to improve his defensive skills in the post as most of the taller twos that he will face will want to post him up on nearly every half court set.
Arenas needs to dominate the ball to be effective
I tend to put this argument in the category of "if you hear it enough then it must be true." I don’t believe that this is based entirely on what we have seen on the court. Gilbert has shared the ball handling duties with Larry Hughes, Antonio Daniels, DeShawn Stevenson and Earl Boykins. However, after Larry left in free agency Gilbert had to assume a majority of the ball handling responsibility.
Gilbert has often said that some of his best times were when he played with Larry Hughes. For example, in 04/05 Gilbert averaged 25.5 PPG, 5.1 APG and 1.7 STL and Larry averaged 22.0 PPG, 4.7 APG and 2.9 STL – pardon me but that is one hell of a combination and it appears to contradict the idea that he needs to dominate the ball.
During an interview last week in Las Vegas, Flip Saunders pointed out that some of Gilbert’s most productive minutes last season occurred when Earl Boykins ran the point and Gilbert was the SG. Gilbert has proven that he can play with and off of another talented player in the backcourt. This will be the first time that he truly has had the opportunity since Larry Hughes left. Except this time he will be paired with a true point guard and not another combo guard that will benefit Gilbert tremendously and he will benefit John Wall.
Since the Wizards traded there veteran players, Gilbert is likely next.
The Wizards did move every veteran player last year that they could in order to re-build while getting younger. Now that Gilbert is able to play this season it may make sense to eventually trade him once his value his high enough that return true value. At that time the goal will likely be to both remove his contract while simultaneously adding young prospects.
The Wizards may eventually trade Gilbert, but they have the luxury to make this trade on their timetable. They do not need to desperately jump at any offer that is thrown their direction. And once Gilbert proves that he can again play – which should not be too hard – they will likely have a few teams who are interested in taking his contract off of their hands.
Trading Gilbert benefits both parties as Gilbert was a "pariah" and he could use a fresh start somewhere else
Gilbert may have been a "pariah" in some people’s eyes nationally, but my feeling is that he never became that in the eyes of most Wizards fans. In many ways, this may be the best situation for him. Gilbert received a fresh start with the Wizards once Ted Leonsis assumed ownership of the team. Plus, while DC is a relatively large news market, it does not generally have the type of media who will attempt to drag out this storyline. Unlike those in the national media, most of the local media understand that there were many factors in the Wizards disappointing season and Gilbert’s suspension was not at the top of the list. The wheels were following off last season’s wagon long before his misguided attempt at humor in which he ultimately broke NBA league rules and more significantly DC law.
You also have to factor in that Gilbert is currently on a team with a player, John Wall, who will draw attention away from him – and at this moment that is a good thing. Not only was John the #1 pick in the draft, but he dominated the Summer League. In the early part of the season, much of the early talk will be about John Wall. For the first time in a long time, this will create a situation that will allow Gilbert to focus on basketball – well except when he is talking with someone from the national media.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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Man, you are indulging in some wishful thinking
The reason all these ex-players and columnists are saying Arenas needs to get traded is because…Arenas’ people are obviously telling them he wants to be. It’s faintly possible Arenas’ knee will heel enough for him to actually get through a whole season and put up decent numbers, but my guess is he knows perfectly well his numbers are going to suffer merely because of his difficult adjustment to the 2 guard spot. Most of his points come off of sets for the 1, and his shooting percentage is only decent because he normally has the ball in his hands at half-court. In addition, neither the inexperienced Wall nor Arenas is capable this year of being an above-average defender, something that with their height, would be needed from a backcourt mate to either one of them. Their games are a little too much alike. Arenas can’t defend and doesn’t want to try; he’d rather move on to a new city where he hasn’t already publicly cr*pped in his own shoes.
by Iwitness on Jul 21, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
4 years ago it was positive
Unlike others here, I actually learn from history.
by Iwitness on Jul 22, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I''m just saying...
You’re counterbalancing him quite well…
Hey
I’d like to think my optimistic bent was backed by a couple facts. :)
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Incidentally,
I always enjoy your posts. Just can’t always agree with them.
Nothing will make me happier
Than if I turn out to be wrong. I bet CJHemp can’t say that ;)
While I am not a lifelong Washingtonian
I have struggled with this team since 1995. I understand your perspective and I do appreciate your comments even if I don’t agree with all of them. You can’t have a healthy debate with someone who agrees with all of your ideas. So keep it up.
I will disagree with you again though. We all should learn from history, so that we can avoid making the same mistakes. In this case, I don’t think that the Wizards are making the same old moves. So I don’t follow.
If your comment was intended to convey the idea that they have disappointed you in the past, and now you are more pessimistic until they prove otherwise. I can understand that view, but be careful of criticizing others solely for not sharing your same world view.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
proof that arenas can play the 2
Unless my eyes are deceiving me it looks like arenas is doing a lot of catch and shoot, and moving without the ball off of screens in this legendary game against the suns
so as long as arenas can embrace a role along those lines the wall-arenas experiment should be successful
by rzawrecktah on Jul 23, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And that was with him playing in the backcourt with
Antonio Daniels. Clearly the Lakers had to be cautious of what AD might do to them. :)
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 23, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
True, I've been known to be optimistic
I would call it being optimistic rather than indulging in wishful thinking, but either way I will grant you that. The overarching point in this post is that a reporter should not just repeat what others have said and should analyze the situation. Each of the original points had one or more plausible counter arguments.
I think that you are giving some of these “reporters” to much credit. How many reporters’ “sources” are dead wrong? The answer is more often than not. If “Gilbert’s people” are leaking those comments, and I am not willing to believe they are, then they should take their cue from him and keep quiet. What he can do to help himself is work hard and get himself back as close to his former form. That will best enable him to be traded – if trading him makes sense.
It’s faintly possible Arenas’ knee will heel enough for him to actually get through a whole season and put up decent numbers, but my guess is he knows perfectly well his numbers are going to suffer merely because of his difficult adjustment to the 2 guard spot.
Sadly, his suspension prevented us from knowing if he would have made it through the entire 09/10 season, but one could easily argue that he may have. Hopefully, he will play 80+ games this season. I am not sure what you mean about adjusting to the 2 guard spot. Coming out of Arizona Gilbert was a 2, who because of questions about his height, was moved to the 1. Part of the reason that he lasted until the second round was because teams did not know if he would be able to play the point in the league. As I tried to mention early, his challenge will not be on the offensive side of the ball his biggest challenge is playing against 2s on defense. That opinion I stick by until I see something different on the floor. He will never be a lockdown defender, but he has the skills necessary to play solid defense – he just has to do it. But make no mistake, Gilbert’s defensive effort (or lack thereof) has long frustrated me.
Most of his points come off of sets for the 1, and his shooting percentage is only decent because he normally has the ball in his hands at half-court.
Since Larry left he has been the primary ball handler, so it would make sense that most of his points would come from him playing that position. I am willing to make the leap to say that Gil without the ball, getting some of the open looks that Nick Young received in Summer League could be lethal in the regular season.
I do agree with you that this year neither will likely be above-average defenders for the main reasons you suggest – Wall’s inexperience and Gilbert’s historic defensive effort. However, I don’t think height alone is a primary factor. I put defensive effort and studying your opponents tendencies much higher on the list than two or three inches in height. The best defenders will get beat but many of them will attempt to funnel the offensive player towards their help and/or force the offensive player into a more difficult shot. At the end of the day, I think that we all would be happy if Wall and Arenas do that consistently.
I'm not sure you can pencil him in for a Guaranteed 23-7
I can easily see him scoring in the mid 20’s but the assists will go down as Wall will be doing the creating. You can’t just take a players numbers from when the whole team revolves around him and then pencil them in when he is in a different role. Much like you can’t assume Blatche will put up the same ppg he did when he was the focus of the offense.
I agree with you VERY much about the effort and film work being more consequential than a players dimensions for defense. So much of it is just effort. I think he can be average if he dedicated himself to it. In fact if I were Flip I’d reduce Gil’s minutes to 28-30mpg or so to give him more energy on the defensive end. If he is showing consistent effort then you can bump his minutes up, if not Flip can just say “I’d play you more but you don’t seem to have enough gas to play defense”.
Also agree that Gil doesn’t have to become Ray Allen to play the 2. Wall can put him in better spots rather than having Gil walk the ball up the court and then iso. Even small things like we saw in summer league with the big men making crisp outlets to wall who pushes it up and hits Gilbert on the wings so that Gil has an unsettled defender coming out at him instead of a set defender. It will make his rocker step move even more potent. I was a pretty staunch defender of Gil last year when everyone was saying he’d never be the same player quickness wise. I would see a couple plays a week where he still had it. Usually in the middle of the first quarter when his knee was warm and he hadn’t sat down and gotten stiff yet. I think alot of his lack of speed was due to his leg being horribly atrophied(Grover said his leg and especially his quads were in horrible shape) and Flips asinine substitution patterns(I’m still pissed about that). I’m as much worried about him struggling with nagging injuries as his body just isn’t used to the rigors of an NBA season. I can see him battling minor things all year. He missed almost 30 games his first year with the Bullets and only played 47 games his first year with GSW so it’s not like the never ending knee injury is the only injury he has had to face.
Good accurate post CJ...
Sometimes I think members of the national media just want the Wizards to lose a lot of
games. If they trade Gilbert without giving him a chance in this rebuilding situation with
a great point guard in the making, that’s what they’d set themselves up for. I think he’ll
be the Wizard’s top scorer. He may even once again be among the elite of the league.
The combination of he and Wall should terrorize opponents offensively. For at least one
season, the Wizards are going to have to be allowed to play! There is so much analysis!
The team has put the roster together, they have(I like to think), a good coach. It’s time
for them to play some basketball!!
by Herb Harris on Jul 22, 2010 1:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for your comments
Gilbert is hardly a perfect player, but this is far from a perfect team. I like Gil offensively, but he has driven me nuts defensively. I agree with BayAreaBullet in that Flip should limit his minutes if he is not playing proper defensive. However the whole team needs to be dedicated to playing defense. I do like the fact they they began drafting players who are generally tougher and appear to enjoy playing defense (as well as the pick up of Hinrich). These are good signs long term for this team.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that philosophy should extend to the whole team
and not in the “you missed an assignment so your benched for the next week” way. If someone isn’t showing consistent effort(I can live with mistakes if there is effort) then they should assume they aren’t in good enough shape to being playing as many minutes as they are. I’d like to see us go 9 deep anyways and run alot rather than having 3 guys play 38+ minutes and not be able to run or defend.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 22, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
with every point that you have made. However, I do disagree with your perspective on the national media. I believe that the fact is we frankly don’t win enough to even be considered by the national media.
The press the wizards have gotten because of this number one pick has been more so far than all season, discounting the arenas fiasco because it was gun related and a media wet dream more so than anything basketball related. The NBA is and will always be focused around winning, titles, rings, and dynasties. I myself live in New York and have been a Wizards fan since 2002. Every time I say I’m a Wizards fan or make any remarks about the Wizards, despite as much evidence and personal experience from watching as I bring up, the immediate response is never promising for our beloved Washington team.
I love the Wizards, and I agree that Gilbert should be given a chance to show what he’s got left in him, I think a good 4-5 year span of 25-8-4 would be my best guess. But I have no real cap for this guy, I think the sky is the limit for him in terms of scoring, he has that “killer instinct” and late game poise, minus the blown free throws and the Evan’s strip.
In the end we are in the middle of a very promising rebuilding process and I believe with the right management we can start winning games and make some actual media worthy noise. Just look at Cleveland, if I had told you Cleveland was gonna be considered a legitimate NBA team in 2001 would you have believed me.
by bigs win rings on Jul 25, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
National media
I would agree with you that the Wizards as a whole should not get more national coverage until they are consistently winning.
My post was supposed to be limited focused in part on the tendency for those in the national media to repeat the same lines and/or logic when discussing a local team (fill in any team here). I fully appreciate that they don’t study that team, but that does not prevent them from analyzing a bit further… or by talking with someone that does follow the team daily… before they just parrot the same line as everyone else. Or even asking themselves, does my logic make sense?
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 26, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
25-8-4?????
25-4-4 is more realistic, and still all-star worthy
by ToughHibachi on Jul 26, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Question to Prada
Do you know anything about Gil’s knee? Is it supposed to be 100% and would you be suprised if he got hurt again?
Ted's radio interview
Here is something Ted said in his radio interview:
If LeBron James can be a co-star in Miami, Gilbert Arenas can be a star and a co-star here in Washington, D.C.
I communicate all the time with Gilbert. Obviously like anything in life, the proof’s in the pudding, but so far I’m very very optimistic that Gilbert is really in shape, he’s healthy, he’s very very positive, and that he will be a really good contributor to our team. And I think we’re going to have one of the best backcourts in the NBA. I think Wall and Gilbert and Hinrich are three high quality, very very good guards, and now we have to build the rest of the team.
I don’t like Gil being compared to Lebronda, partly b/c it is a poor comparision imho, but mainly b/c I just hate Lebron.
I hope that Ted isn’t just saying this stuff, but actually believes it. I’m in the camp of keeping Gil, so hopefully this is a sign of that. And I agree with Gil being a great contributor.
Idk about Hinrich being a “very very good guard.” More like very, very ok.
Overall tho, this quote just makes me more excited about the season.
by HIBACHI GOLD on Jul 22, 2010 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
heinrich is
a very very good defender….he is damn near shut down…a short/ white ron artest….gotta love that
by back_to_the_future on Jul 22, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i hate how the national media
labeled him a pariah and a cancer to the team… im a huge wizards fan and i dont give a sh!t that he brought guns to the locker room, i think we should change the team name back to the bullets and make the logo that picture of him and his teammates dancing around, finger-guns blazing, then we should call our home opener “f—- david stern night” and give away t-shirts with our new label proudly displayed on the front… we’ve got john wall now, we’re untouchable
bring back darvin ham
by jeffbenson on Jul 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
might be fun for a minute....
but a Gil learned, Mr Stern can be one hard man indeed.
I think (as apprently does the team;s owner) that GilWall w Kirk in reserve could be a devastatingly good backcourt. While I do not agree with those who feel so positive about this backcourt that they are clamoring for the WIzards to go out and spend now on a mid-level SF, I want to see this backcourt get a chance to prove itself. It is the one shot we have to match up even-up or better against Orlando (Nelson-Carter), Boston (Rondo-R Allen), Boston (Wade-yes-but with Chalmers), Milwaukee (Jennings-Salmons), Atlanta (Bibby/Teague-Joe Johnson) and so on.
I do care that Gil seems to be kind of dumb in addition to sort of crazy.
That’s what the gun incident showed me. And when someone has the ball nearly every possession, you want someone who’s analytical. But I don’t see him as a parriah, and I do like the idea of a F*** David Stern home opener.
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jul 22, 2010 4:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good point
That incident and how he approached it afterwards does not speak well of his intelligence or ability to deal with the realities of life. Being too stupid for your own good does not bode well for any of his endeavors in life.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Wha? The media just recycles the same unfounded talking points?
I pretty much agree with you, CJ. I think perhaps this article is a bit optimistic in the areas of Gil’s production and his availability due to unjuries. However, trading a commodity at the absolute nadir of their career is the last thing the Bullets should do. I have very little concern about Arenas playing the 2. I think it’s a good fit at the offensive end with the Great Wall of Chinatown running point. Defensively it’s going to be difficult, but that could be said for virtually every position on this squad…unless going for every block and giving up every offensive board by JaVale McGee constitutes good defense. By the way, you gotta give that kid credit for packing 4 capital letters into 2 names. Heinrich will fill some of that need in the backcourt and serve as decent insurance should devastating injury occur…as we are all too aware that it may.
I am thinking that Gil at the 2 could maybe best be likened to Michael Redd plus an assist or two. I know he’s giving up a couple of inches in that comparison, but Redd was never the most explosive athlete. Neither is Gil at this point in his career, but he’s savvy and can shoot the rock. The question is whether he’s the Michael Redd from ’07 or ’10. Time will tell.
by Jim America on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's hope not
Hopefully he will not prove to be the ’10 version of Michael Redd.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
John Wall is the perfect change of scenery for Gilbert Arenas.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
History
On October 24, 2009 at the end of pre-season I summarized the situation as:
“Flip said Gilbert is our best player and therefore must be our leader” but
"Gilbert hasn’t been a good leader. Rather, he’s acting like a spoiled 16 year old’.
Of course, I got roundly booed on this board.
But the same issue is front and forward this year. We’ll know where Arenas stands at the end of preseason.
The same issue is not front and forward
Because Wall is now Flip’s leader. All Gil has to do is score. Can’t think of a better scenario for Gil.
If he plays well, then we can live with his foolishness, imo. That part is unlikely to go away.
I’m not against a trade, though, if another team really wants to pay good value for him. But in order to do that, he has to play for a few months, I think most of us on this board have been consistent with believing that. I already saw us trade away Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Webber, when their value was low; it’s just bad business to do it again.
Cold chills
Thank you Tbone for bringing back those memories. :)
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you realize
this is EXACTLY the mindset that led to the team ignoring Gilbert for shitting in a teammate’s shoe. Hey, as long as he is putting up numbers we’ll deal with it. And that kept going until they had to deal with not 1 but two teammates with guns in the locker room and threats made on the team plane. I’m out on a limb saying this is not the way to handle Gilbert. Just a hunch.
I would have to think that those days are o-v-e-r
Gilbert can not afford to go back in front of Stern again. I am willing to bet that some of his conversations with Ted and Ernie likely covered what will or will not be tolerated.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there is something to be said for just walking away from all the risk
Alot of people’s worst case scenario is that we trade him for expiring and he goes on to be a great scorer again. That doesn’t scare me as much as the thought of him missing 20+ games due to any kind of injury and becoming really untradeable. I’m a gambler so I’m down to roll the dice and hope he plays up his value but I certainly can see some sense in walking away from the whole thing if a late first and an expiring was offered. You can get 25-28ppg and 5-7 assists and no defense from 2-3 players for 20M annually easily.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 22, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
And plays some form of defense
He does not need to be a shut down defender, but he has to improve his defensive effort. And if there ever was a year that he could see his minutes get cut, due to a lack of defense this would be that year. Let’s face it the team has played without him for much of the last 3 years. Hell they played the second half of the year with 1 yr rentals (as it turned out) and a collection of spare parts. This year they have the ability to have Hinrich, Young or possibly Martin on the floor if he is not putting forth the required effort. Or if we put a positive spin on it, they have the ability to cut his minutes in order to ensure that he is rested enough to play solid defense.
Great post
Especially the part about the national media vs local. I felt like ESPN was blowing this up like it ruined the franchise but locally we felt like the season was already over.
by Alpha_Red on Jul 22, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I never thought that I would miss CNNSI
But having a monopoly is never good. ESPN needs competition
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
every is missing the big point
What about Blatche who is a superior playmaker to Arenas?Doesn’t anyone want him to have the ball? I do.You have the wall- blatche connection and isn’t that what you want?Where does arenas fit into that scenario? The wizards need a catch and shoot 2 guard. That isn’t arenas. Maybe that will be Nick Young. How are going to develop Young who is a far better defender than hibachi if the back court is arenas hinrich wall? Arenas is a gun. He will take everyone out of the offense. Like in the past they will all be standing around while arenas is playing one on five. Blatche keeps players in the game with his passing and I’d much prefer a 6’11" guy shooting from 5 feet then a guard gunning the ball from 35". Arenas simply doesn’t fit in. He has to go and he will be gone. Besides he wants to play the point..This is something he has reiterated in the past. All arenas has to show is that he is healthy and someone will want him. A team like the Mavs maybe. I figure arenas will be traded during the all star break and the wiz will see if they have their future 2 guard in young. Otherwise, I assume the wiz will be drafting a 2 next year.
this every is not missing the big point
Pretty sure everyone would take layups over 35 footers. I don’t particularly think that’s the juxtaposition here. I am also pretty sure that Blatche’s value and stats are overinflated based on the makeup of last year’s team down the stretch, which was not NBA caliber. I like Blatche, particularly given his contract, but let’s not go thinking he’s the Big Ticket in his prime or anything. The guy still takes embarassing fadeaways with a man in his face from 20 feet. I also think Gil will be somewhat humbled and driven this year…pure speculation. On the other hand, he could be spiteful and playing for a shot at a different team. Whatever the case, he’s not going to have the opportunity to hog the ball as much, cause it’s going to be in the hands of a certain rookie PG.
I also don’t think Nick Young is the kind of player you plan your future around. He’ll get his minutes…don’t worry. This team is too thin for him not to.
On what basis...
…do you make the argument that Blatche is a better playmaker than Arenas?
An analysis I did of other All-Star players who missed 2 or more seasons because of injury (Bernard King, Bill Walton and Grant Hill) found that they collectively lost about 30% of their production (measured by PER) when they finally returned from injury. Arenas actually beat that mark last season — his PER was down “only” 22%.
There’s still reason to think he might do better than that other trio — he was younger when he first got hurt (and when he returned), and medical science and rehab techniques are better.
Finally, if Arenas somehow does recapture the form he had back in 06-07, that’s a TERRIFIC thing for the Wizards. A lot of the complaining about his offensive game is revisionist (at best) or idiotic (at worst). At his best, Arenas was one of the most efficient high-usage scorers in the game, and the Wizards had one of the league’s best offenses. The team’s problem was on the defensive end.
by TheSecretWeapon on Jul 22, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see any mutual exclusivity there.
There are plenty of possessions go around. Plenty of shots to distribute.
And I don't recall Gil ever saying he wanted to be the point guard.
In fact, IIRC he grumbled at having to run Flip’s offense last year.
He has his change of scenery
Gilbert has a change of scenery. You might as well call this team something else, and say they are from a different state because basically everything on this franchise is new. The only things left alone or pieces that improved for the good.
I am super excited for Arenas. This is his final season in a sense to prove who he is, as a Wizard, without the excuses of a surrounding cast with a lack of enthusiasm and energy. I have never been so excited about my team since I first watched Arenas nail buzzer beaters in 06-07 and cover everything basketball related.
This season I not only get John Wall and a slew of other awesome players but I get the chance to witness a perfect oppurtunity for Agent 0 to have his redemption and prove the doubters like those who branded him with the 0 wrong.
No crap
They even have a new guy moppin the floor!
by Johnnie Futbol on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The better playmaker
On what basis do say that Nash is a better playmaker than arenas? Better court vision and a far better passer. And that is what Blatche is compared to arenas. What plays has arenas created for his teammates when he has the ball? Most of the time arenas is shooting it. His court vision is average much like his passing. And if you ever watch Blatche he makes no look strikes to players and he is 6’11". He is the man Wall wants to get it to. Not arenas. Simple.
I see lots of mutual exclusiveness here
Arenas needs the ball to score. Wall needs the ball and I want the ball to Blatch down under. What you want is wall to get the ball to blatche so either he is in a position to score or can pass the ball to catch and shoot 2 guard. You have to use Blatche. Arenas just drribbles the ball around and last year it was frequently off his foot. You want wall to dribble the ball around to create plays.Not arenas. If arenas were a catch and shoot guy fine. But he isn’t.
I would only point out that...
Gilbert has not been asked to be a catch and shoot guy in the past with the Wiz. So whether he can be that or not is still up in the air.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the word exclusivity
I just think you are overinflating Blatche’s abilities a touch and basing your prediction on how Arenas will play by referencing how he played as the PG. Whatever, there are 48 minutes in each game, and this should be a run ’n gun type of squad, so I think all of those players fit in nicely.
Are you propsing a GSW type of game plan for the Wiz?
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe
unfortunately we have a similar skillset. Can’t rebound…no post play. length and athleticism to spare. Plus I think Wall would really thrive in a more open court. Of course to get breakaways you have to get defensive stops…which will be difficult. I just think it gives this squad a better chance and would put more butts in the seats if the Wall fever ever breaks.
Let 'em run...
As long as they improve team defense and overall fundamentals.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
This every watched Blatche.
What was Blatches shooting percentage last year? About 50 percent? Blatche isn’t the big ticket defensively although I am sure Saunders would love that, but on the offensive end Blatche is a better scorer and passer than the BIg Ticket. The point is with Mcgee seemingly poised to have his breakthrough season you want to get the ball down low. Then you can kick it to a catch and shoot guy. Why in the world do you want a 2 guard who dribbles the ball all over the place to create a shot for himself? It makes no sense.
First, can you use the reply button? Its easier to conduct a threaded conversation.
To your point, everybody wants prototypical players at every position. Heck I want a drop dead gorgeous girlfriend who can cook, loves to clean and likes to bathe and massage me. You understand why its called prototype, right?
Because players are human, they don’t roll off of assembly lines. And as the rest of humanity, players have strengths and weaknesses. Anybody can identify the perfect backcourt companion for Wall, the perfect SF, and so on… Acquiring that person (who may or may not even exist, let alone be acquirable). And that’s not even considering the fact that the hypothetical player would be human too, and have strengths and weaknesses that would make him also diverge from the prototype…
Anyway, while we’re at it, what the heck are the Wiz thinking not having a chiseled, 7ft 280lb defensive rebounder to guard the paint like it was fort knox???? I mean pffff…
I just created that rebounder on NBA 2K10
His name is The Freak and he’s currently under a 10 day contract with the Kings. I’m thinking we can get him for cheap.
To your point…exactly.
they tried that in the 1990's
contracted with some eastern european mad scientist. he came up with gheorge muresan. not bad for a first draft.
"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier
by little stevie colter on Jul 22, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol
Jim America, you were gonna get this reply, but Muresan? LMBO!
Side note
At the last Bullets game I attended, I saw Muresan give dap from his seat to a fan in the aisle…he was 8 seats from the aisle. Wingspan, son! The experiment may not have worked in terms of wins, but I will always cherish seeing that man dunk without leaving the ground. Also, I’m sick of Muresan being named as one of the all-time ugliest NBA players. That’s like calling a special needs kid stupid…it’s unfair and shouldn’t apply. Calvin Booth on the other hand…
And now that he is on the NJN staff
we should get to see him a few more times this season.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
again...unfair
Popeye Jones…or Sloth Jones as I call him…has a physical deformity…or several physical deformities depending on how you calculate it. His head was obviously crushed at birth by the world’s strongest vaginal canal. You, sir, are a terrible person for having said that. Tyrone Hill on the other hand…
I can't imagine
that if Blatche kicked the ball out to Gilbert and he is open that he would not take an open shot. Others have called him a gunner – why would a gunner pass up an open shot?
We have not seen him play his proposed role with this team, so it is tough to describe what he will do based soley on what he did in a different role. However, we do know he can shoot a jumper and we know he can take his man off the drive, both of these skills will come in handy playing off of his teammates.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
THe Wizards are not a run and gun team
Saunders is the coach not Nelson. I base how arenas will play based on how he played when he came back last and he was as me me me as ever even though there wasn’t much me there in his game. I stopped being hibachi. That kind of crap. Why should he be suddenly humbled when he knows he can be hibachi in new york?. I am not over inflating Blatche. Saunders himself said Blatche could be special and after a celtics game Ray Allen said Blatche was “brilliant”.So no. I am not over inflating Blatche.
I'm glad you're not being hibachi anymore... That's a relief...
and Flip said “Blatche could be special,” not “Blatche is special.” Somewhat of a distinction.
and
you would prefer Jamison taking up the minutes of the unworldly talents of McGee and Blatche now? Anyway, I just think you should give Arenas an opportunity to show what type of a 2 he will be before you make these rash criticisms of his game. The fact that he had the ball in his hands too much in your opinion is kind of counterbalanced by the fact that he was the PG at the time. Whatever…San Diego means a whale’s vagina…agree to disagree.
The anchor man
Blatche had his breakout year and it looks like McGee could begin to establish himself this year. They are big and very athletic. I am sure there are plenty of teams that would like to have those two. Arenas is what he is. He was the same way at Arizona. He isn’t suddenly going to morph into richard hamilton. I am not down on Arenas. I love him as a player. But he needs to be on a vetern team that can use his scoring ability. I simply don’t think the fit is right in Washington. Saunsers has been trying to make Young a catch and shoot guy. Obviously for the reason that Saunders is trying to make Young the 2 guy. So its about whether Arenas is a good fit as a player for this team as it is composed today. I don’t think he is and I expect that he will inevitably be traded.
No Blatche had a run of 32 games
He needs to prove he can do it consistently for a number of seasons, not just one stretch of one season after they trade the guy in front of you.
That's not true though
Over 81 games last year, he averaged the following per 40 minutes:
20.3 pts, 9reb, 3ast, 1.6stl, 1.2 blk.
That’s pretty damn good, and for a complete season. And that was at age 23, so he should be even better this year.
per 40 minutes
in reality, he averaged 14 pts, 6 boards, 2 dimes, 1 block, 1 steal, and 2 turnovers. I like his progression, but he was the focal point of a terrible team, getting the most minutes of anybody for the season. The numbers mean very little either way.
Kind of unconnected arguments
I’ll try to address them all…
- jones-y said Blatche only played well for 32 games, so I pointed out that his 81 game performance was equally good (as best as can be measured).
Sure, he got “the most minutes of anybody”, but that doesn’t mean anything in isolation. He only played 28mpg, which makes those counting stats you provided pretty impressive. Or were you attributing the team’s performance to him? Like if you’re the best player on a bad team you must suck? I’ll be okay with it if he sucks as bad as Pau Gasol, or as bad as KG in his last few seasons with Minnesota.
I’m not sure what the “reality” comment means, because per minute stats are just as “real” as per game stats (and less misleading). However, I watched most of the games last year and he looked like a very good player to me…a very good starter at least and probably an all star if he gets any better. There’s still some uncertainty about how good he’ll be this year with new teammates, but he’s proven himself to be at minimum a respectable starting PF, and most guys improve upon their play at age 23.
by steadyhand on Jul 23, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me clarify
First, I am not really down on Blatche. I was arguing against unrealistic expectations.
Second, I don’t blame him for the performance of the entire team, but I think most reasonable people would agree that the statistics from a surreal blow-up year like last year are not necessarily as reliable in predicting future performance. He’s not Pau or KG…this is the point. He’s Dray…he’s getting better, but people need to stop wetting themselves.
The reality comment is my aversion to extrapolating a guy’s stats to 40 min. averages as if that’s how he would actually play if he got 40 mpg. First of all, Dray wasn’t in the type of physical shape necessary to play 40 mpg. Check out some of these projected stats for guys extrapolated for 40 minutes:
Charlie Villanueva – 25 ppg
Michael Beasley – 22 ppg
Louis Williams – 22 ppg
Flip Murray – 20 ppg
Craig Smith – 21 ppg
Von Wafer – 20 ppg
Rashad McCants – 20 ppg
Will Bynum – 20 ppg
Roy Hibbert – 20 ppg
Gerald Green – 21 ppg
Alando Tucker – 20 ppg
Ike Diogu – 22 ppg
Mouhamed Sene – 28 ppg
Jerome James – 24 ppg
I’ll stop. Some of these numbers are more “realistic” and relevant than others. Fair? I also watched him, and I agree with your qualitative assessment. i just don’t think we should be assuming greatness as some on here apparently have.
by Jim America on Jul 23, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Not assuming greatness, just goodness. Most of those guys you have listed are good scorers though, don’t you think? Most of them, however, suck on defense and in most other areas of the game, which I don’t think is true for Blatche.
As for extrapolating data, it works if you mind your sample sizes. Sene and James have extremely small samples…like less than 30 minutes…the confidence intervals around their numbers are enormous, so their projections are useless. However, there’s a big difference between projecting from 2256 minutes and projecting from 30 (or even a few hundred, like Tucker, Green, and Diogu).
To respond, steadyhand,
Blatche had a breakout 32 games. His other 50 games were pretty darn solid, but they hardly qualify as ‘breakout’ to me.
I believe we have a winner...
small sample sizes, that.
Blatche was nice towards the end of last year, but let’s not crown him yet.
by TerroristFistJab on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
However another criticism could be
that Saunders tried to fit players to his system early in the season and did not adjust his system to his players. He appeared to get that as Mike and others reported as the season wore on.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
Never said I don’t want Blatche or McGee on my team. Also never said I don’t want to trade Arenas, but doing so now would be counterproductive. I just think in regard to both the high expectations you have for our skinny, big men and the low expectations you have for Agent 9, there is a rush to judgment before they even get on the court together. With that, I am ending my portion of this discussion. Bon soir, mon ami.
Right
When you say he’s better offensively than KG in his prime, then I find it hard to categorize your viewpoint as realistic. If you want McGee to have his breakout, then they better be run and gun. That’s what he succeeded at in the Summer League…you know, the inconsequential exhibition games with D-League caliber players that started all this hype.
No
What worked for Mcgee was the pick and roll with wall.
What worked for McGee was many things, actually
Pick & roll, following on transition, slow footed guys like Samhan trying to guard him. Hell, he even used a couple of actual post moves. My point is, JVM had a great summer in several aspects, but you still have to consider the level of competition. I’m hoping he puts it all together (as it would seem I spend most of my time on this site trying to figure out why people think a 3rd year kid who’s still growing will never be any good) but it’s a hard sell to try and project summer league dominance to the regular season.
I agree
In watching McGee I just thought he looked like he is ready to play.He looks confident.
He showed off some spiffy moves. I thought last year Blatche came into the summer league and he looked ready. Its my time attitude. And when he got the call he produced.So in watching McGee I felt those dunks were something of a statement. I am here to play. So I believe he will be a much better player than last year. He is far from developed. I don’t expect to see the real McGee until 2011 season. Thats when you will really see the arc of his career. LIke Blatche. 4 years. I never thought Blatche would ever be a good scorer watching him his first two years. I’m tall and skinny and can pass. I can’t shoot and I have no post moves. Who would ever have thought that this guy could put up 35 points. McGee is no different. I’m tall and skinny and I have arms so long I can wrap them around my body to make them look like two pythons hugging me. See? But, my mom is an ex wnba player and my dad is a basketball coach and all my life has been about basketball. There is no offseason for Javale McGee and you have to see that as a recruiter. You know when you draft a player like McGee who has the physical requirements to be an NBA center has some basketball skills and maybe he needs time. In th long run he is worth the time spent. He is an unusually gifted athlete who comes from a basketball family. How could he last so long in the darft? Odin was the first pick of the draft and what did he show at ohio state?You think GMs must have thought McGee was a secrete crack addict. Haywood was selected earlier in the draft than McGee. I simply am baffled sometimes in the way players get drafted. To allow such a gifted athlete as tall and as long armed as he is and with the background he comes from not to go in the lottery is crazy.
by likethecow on Jul 22, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In fairness to the Blazers
Odin was the chief Norse god while at THE Ohio State University.
by Jim America on Jul 22, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
true to a degree
I’ll give you that. Mind you it was against inferior competition. Also, McGee still rolls way too early on most of those pick and rolls. Is that just me? Just saying McGee and Blatche aren’t really traditional post players and would be better suited to a more wide open style.
sorry
meant to be a reply on the above…i know it’s hard to follow otherwise. I also know there is tremendous demand to follow my fact-based, research-driven opinions and tomfoolery. I sincerely apologize to my many fans. I will now be taking my talents to the restroom.
well played
but I have to say i think I might be going to the bathroom not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, not five times, not six times…uh oh…i think i crapped myself while i was counting.
The wizards will run
They will be a fast break team and I believe that is their plan. Think Pistons. Big physical tough on defense grab the rebound and run a fast break. I think thats the plan. I can’t do anything about the development of McGee. He is so big that he has to grow into his body as they say. I think the summer league showed at least to me he is kind of doing that now. Think what blatche looked when he came into the league. A tall skinny guy. Now look at him. McGee is kind of the same thing.
The thing about McGee is that he is going to be absolutely massive when its said and done. Thats what the wizards want. A long armed massive center who happens to be very athletic to guard the paint.
The Pistons?
Which Pistons team? The ones under Flip were the slowest-paced ones in the league. The ones under Larry Brown were similar.
The isiah thomas pistons
Saunders wants them to get tough. They have some big players and a supersonic guard. So I think he wants to beat up on some teams if he can.
Exactly
and I really don’t see “big physical tough on defense” describing this squad. More like the Showtime Lakers minus Kareeem and with two stretched out Michael Coopers in the post. Sheesh..I just scared myself with the thought of a stretched out Michael Cooper. Think how long those socks would have to be…
I only know what grunfeld and saunders said about the draft.
He wants to toughen up the team. AKA beat up other teams. They have the size to do it. If Booker works out and they stick him at the small forward spot then they are a very big and can be a very physical team. I don’t think anyone dropped a gay bomb on the MCI center. Throw some elbows around. Get that french guy over here. I am tough. Thats the attitude. Lets see some blood on the court. Attitude. I think that is what Saunders is attempting to instll in them. Punch that mother fucker right in the mouth right on national tv right in front of the refs. So what if you miss a few games, we got other players. There will be blood. That is what I would be telling them and the rest of the teams in the NBA
The kid has some of the longest arms that I have ever seen
Towards the end of the USAB practice the team huddles and JaVale reaches his arm in from back up the Las Vegas strip.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 22, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I am talking fast break team.
The wiz have two bigs in the middle. The can walk the ball up as well. The pistons were a very tough and physical team who ran fast breaks. The wiz can run, but I don’t believe Saunders wants a running team like phoenix.. What he wants are those fast break points. No team is slower than San Antonio. You couldn’t pay that team to run a fast break. But under Isiah Thomas they ran fast breaks. I did not say they played fast and the wiz wont either. I suppose you can think like the celtics. with rondo. I don’t like that example but tough defense because the wiz have the players and rebounding to get the opportunity points. When you have an entire team that can run, I mean Blatche can run a fast break, you try for the rebound get the ball to wall and run unlike a san antonio who walk the ball up seemingly everytime. The old pistons were not as quick as this wiz team is but the model is there and I think that saunders sees that. You go with the players you got. My original point is that I don’t see Arenas as having a future on this team. Maybe I am wrong. But I simply don’t see how his style of play will coexist. I think the wiz want McGee Blatche Booker/Thorton Young and Wall. Booker is defensive and Thorton is offensive minded so who plays is situational. I think that is what their plan is. Will it work? Who knows. Young is the wild card. I think this is his proving year which is another reason I believe the wiz will trade arenas. The wiz have to see what Young has. They traded haywood to look at McGee so why wouldnt they trade Arenas to look at Young? No one thinks the wiz are going to play the Lakers in the finals. This is a two or three year project. So its interesting to watch them develop.
where to begin?
When was San Antonio under Isiah Thomas perhaps? Or shall I begin with from whom do you claim the Wizards have the rebounding for opportunity points? Am I to assume you have also crowned Trevor Booker based on his summer league dominan…ahem…mediocrity? You know Ginobili and Parker have done some running in their day, right? You’re talking about them getting out on the break, yet you don’t think another scoring guard who can handle the rock, see the floor, and get buckets will coexist? They traded haywood to look at McGee? You know they wanted to package Stevenson’s dumb ass instead of Haywood, right? Remember? Dallas wouldn’t go for it until Haywood got brought up? Either way, don’t you think that was more about payroll and luxury tax relief?
So many questions. You exhaust me, sir. As my high school coach used to tell me on a daily basis, “Use your noodle, son!”
Again with the replying
I’m leaving. my brain has melted. Sign Richard Hendrix and call it a day.
I must say, I don't know how I feel about being a run n gun team
I understand why. I guess it is what we have been given. Nevertheless, I would like to see a physical team. I think the championship caliber teams have proven to be bullies before run n gun.
Jim America is funny. I have sincerely enjoyed reading your responses.
I would like to see a post on where Blatche fits into the whole scheme of things. I think it is no coincidence that Blatche got going once Jamison left. He proved himself to me. Why are we now saying he did not?
Who's fault is that?
He can’t exactly put himself into games. All he can do is produce when given a chance. Which is exactly what happened.
What if he’d scored 10 points a game over that period. Would it still be meaningless or would we be saying he failed?
We are being too pessimistic.
Who is being pessimistic?
All I’m saying is that it takes more than 32 games to prove yourself. Look I’m as giddy as a six year old on christmas eve at his performance most of last year, even when he was still behind AJ. But has he proven himself (which in my mind is tantamount to saying we can expect him to perform similarly for the rest of his prime)? Not even close.
Tell you why. Five years in the league. One good year. Not pessimistic. Realistic.
That doesn't mean he proved himself
32 games does not equate to proving anything beyond what you can do in 32 games over the course of a few months. he needs to do it over a longer period of time to show he can do it over a longer period of time. He’ll get his chance. In the meantime he’s a young player with a nice 32-game stretch as a starter under his belt.
Thanks. I do what I can for the people.
I would also like to see a physical team. Literally, my favorite player back in the day was Charles Oakley. I’m all for tough-nosed basketball, but this squad isn’t built for it. Nor is it a championship caliber team. I just think you have to play to your strengths…while being mindful that player development is a huge aspect of this year, and they can not neglect the “bigs” that we have.
As far as Blatche, I may come off negatively since I’m trying to talk down a crazy person. I like his game, and I think he’s good value. Hell, the guy got shot in the chest as a rookie, and got out of a charge for soliciting sex from an undercover officer in Logan circle. He’s definitely on the floor for me.
They weren't built for being physical
But they are now. And they have the size to do it. Listen to Saunders and Grunfeld. They want to toughen up the team. Thats how you build a winner. There is nothing small about the players they are bringing in. Just look at their draft picks. Wall was the small guy. Look at their free agent signings. Hinrich is a tough-some people say not so clean- player. Look at their roster. Its loaded with tall guys. Big guys. Its not that hard to throw an elbow.
Tall is different from big
Saunders and Grunfeld are telling them to play physically, because they have shown a lack of ability to rebound and defend the post. I used to tell a group of 3rd graders that they needed to play more physically on the interior…that doesn’t mean I thought they could box out Shaq. To your point, they are getting more physical with Booker and Hinrich. I don’t see Seraphin playing in the US this year. Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that.
maybe its wishing
but everything points to him wanting to be here and the team wanting him here now. He’s better off playing some in the D League and practicing with the team than another year in France.
Arenas should be traded now
The argument that Arenas should be traded as soon as possible can be made quite convincingly:
1. Bold phraseCharacter Issue – Although generally not regarded as “bad” person, he is not the best person to have in the locker room. You don’t want this type of personality around a rebuilding franchise—especially when you already have Andray Blatche on the team.
2. Bold phraseHealth – Although Arenas stayed healthy last year for all of 32 games, he has still not played a full season since the 2006-07 campaign. If you let him play for the team in order to up his trade value, you risk him blowing out his knee again.
The point here is that_italic phrase_Low Trade Value is still some value. Many argue that Arenas shouldn’t be traded now because his value is so low, and that he should be kept him on the team to allow him to return to good form—thus boosting his trade value. The flip side of that is, are you willing to take the chance for him to blow out his knee again in, lets say, game 13 of the season? Are you willing to take the chance of him being a destructive force in the locker room again? who would want to acquire him then? When you want him off the team, no one will take him.
Grunfeld and Leonsis are hopefully doing the smart thing—trying to trade Gilbert Arenas now. He may be worth little now, but if you go with a plan to let him return to prominence, you’re risking him being worth nothing, for all of the reasons mentioned above.
There’s buttons for the formatting stuff. Simply select the desired text and click the desired button for bold, italics, quotes etc.
are you willing to take the chance for him to blow out his knee again in, lets say, game 13 of the season? Are you willing to take the chance of him being a destructive force in the locker room again?
Yes.
Injury is out of everyone’s control. Likelihood of injury can be speculated but never proven.
He only disrupted the lockerroom one time in his 7 years in DC. That was gungate. Other than that, he was never know as a negative locker room influence. People have often made the stretch of implying (or outright stating) that, but when asked to substantiate, all they have as evidence (besides gungate) is joking and pranks. I joke with and pull pranks on my coworkers. Guess I should be traded to the department of agriculture huh?
who would want to acquire him then?
Who wants him now?
Have you ever defecated in one of your co-workers shoes?
Proving an injury will happen is impossible, but this misses the point. I wouldn’t take the chance of keeping Arenas to see if his value rises—if some team wanted to trade for him, even if we got garbage in return, i think Grunfeld should do it.
Thank you for letting me know about the formatting.
I've never had a coworker whose shoes I did not WANT to defecate in
Can’t say I’ve done it, but we don’t have lockers and ready access to each others shoes.
I get it. Gilbert’s a damn fool. But that’s it. He’s not a bad guy. He’s just a damn fool. Even the gun incident was intended to be a joke (and if put in a movie or something that divorced it from reality, it’s a pretty funny joke). I think he’s going to handle himself well this year. Not fake Tiger Woods comeback behave yourself either, but his way. I think he sincerely gets it.
Have I ever been an multimillionaire entertainer?
If so, I’d have definitely taken a dump in somebody’s shoe by now…
I’ll tell you what I have done. I’ve loaded a styrofoam cup full of the holes from a hole-punch, spring-loaded it with a rubberband and a paperclip, and sat by waiting for my coworker to open his drawer…
I didn’t say anything about proving that an injury is coming. Its about speculation about the likelihood of said injury. He could go the rest of his career without another major injury for all we know. He could also go down with an injury to his good knee the day before training camp. Or the last game of the season. Or the day after we trade him. And he could just as likely not.
Point is, injury-history is almost impossible to correlate to injury-future.
I'd be interested to know why you think this
Point is, injury-history is almost impossible to correlate to injury-future.
It seems to me like there are some players who are injury prone and some who aren’t.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That is true
Some athletes are more injury prone than others – generally those who don’t take care of their bodies as well as others. Or someone whose body seems to regularly breakdown. I’m thinking primarily of those who regularly pull hamstrings, quads, calf muscles, etc. However, you can’t train for a freak accident like someone falling into the side of your knee.
Maybe one could argue that lately GIlbert has been “accident” prone? But how could someone plan for an accident?
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 23, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
larry hughes was injury prone
greg oden is injury prone.
peja stojakovic is injury prone.
jermaine oneal is injury prone.
etan thomas was injury prone.
etc.
as for gil, other than gilbert’s knee injury he’s been pretty durable, but that knee will be a major concern, at least until he plays out an entire season at a high level on it. speaking of speculating, to some degree we are still speculating at this point that he can actually do that.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 23, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He did only play 47 games his rookie year
and then 55 Games his first year here with abdominal issues if I remember correctly. So it’s not like he has been an iron man outside of that injury. If you throw out last year cuz of suspension he’s only broken 55 games 4 out 8 years.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 23, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm yeah
that’s not so good. i remembered the abdominal injury here, but i thought he was healthy in golden state. guess not.
oh yeah, another one: yao ming is injury prone!
by DarrellWalkerFan on Jul 24, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I did have some issues with who he was pranking
It was always a rookie or the 12th man on the team who didn’t have much stature. If he picked on AJ or CB I would feel better about it. Those guys could punch him in the mouth(a result anyone should be preapred for aftrer pranking someone) and stay on the team. Avee Storey just has to sit there and take it. Little bit of the schoolyard Bully IMO always picking on those who can’t fight back.
by BayAreaBullet on Jul 22, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
gilbert is here to stay-- deal with it.
this is an intellectually stimulating “ivory tower” debate about the merits and demerits of having Arenas on the Wizards.
But it really doesnt matter, Arenas is here to stay. He’s not going anywhere. So those of you who continue to dream of Gilbert on another team are really wasting your time.
Let’s cheer the Wall-Arenas backcourt, and enjoy it.
I Think Ted Leonsis will make it work
Rod Langway magically teaches Mike Green how to clear and check the opposition from his own defensive zone. Lets Go Caps !
by Mikko Leinonen's opposite on Jul 22, 2010 7:38 PM EDT reply actions
and if it doesn't
Leonsis will make Arenas go away. So we might as well see how it plays out. Gilbert might just surprise everyone. He’s good at that too.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Great players can play great together
Especially great players who understand the game. Gilbert is portrayed as a crazy, loud-mouthed, gun-toting pariah, but he’s a great basketball player who really knows the game of basketball. He’s never played with a teammate on the Wizards who has a basketball I.Q. as high as his own, and (barring a trade) that’s about to change. As soon as these guys win a couple games together, all the talk of “will they or won’t they be able to play together” will fall by the wayside. Winning answers all questions.
Anyway, the more critical question is whether Saunders can adapt his game plan to Wall’s speed. If the team is playing half-court offense, they’re not going to be taking full advantage of what Wall brings to the court.
I say they're right
He need’s a total reboot. Clearly he is living a charmed life because he gets it without having to move. A New Owner offering a clean slate, a super-sized media distraction in “the John Wall story” and a coach who craves his production. Wall’s presence also lets him off the hook in terms of leadership, never a strong suit for Gil.
That dynamic is an undersold positive IMO. Gilbert is the type of guy who could really flourish without the added weight of being “the franchise”. That hasn’t been a natural part of his personality in the past. And he still gets to be the primary scorer most nights.
A Charmed Life.
I get your point
And I agree with you for the most part. But if you know his story, it really hasn’t been that much of a charmed life.
L
Lots of people have rough upbringings. Not all of them get to have an Abe Pollin in their life, or 80M guaranteed to them over the next 4 years.
He isn't "the franchise" in DC
That role has been handed to Wall. If anything Wall allows Gil to come back with less scrutiny than going anywhere else. If they trade him than the press will rehash the story all over again. The story has died down in DC because its been done here and everyone is hyped for Wall.
If a trade comes that is great I wouldn’t be opposed to them taking it because they are looking at the 5 year plan but I think Gil is a good fit in DC. Tony K has never positive feeling about anything happening with Wiz so his arguments hold no weight with me.
Arenas is not a cancer!!!
Sure he did something bone headed and he has paid for it. But the idea that he is a cancer is ridiculous. The guy is one of the hardest working guys in the NBA, I don’t know why that is always glossed over like it means nothing. I think Wall and Arenas will be able to push each other to be that much better together.
Obviously I’m a fan, but I like his attitude because he plays with a chip on his shoulder and usually players like that work harder.
Plus in a world of drab DC “stars” that actually has a personality.
Having a stellar work ethic doesn't mean he has a great attitude
I work like a sherpa and my attitude sucks….. :)
Cancer
I think that people in the media use that term because it draws attention. But in general they are very light on detailing specifically how he was “cancerous” to the team. When I think of “cancerous” players in a sports context, I think first of Terrell Owens (past issues) and more recently Albert Haynesworth and possibly Carlos Zambrano. I am sure there are many other examples as well.
by CJ Hempfield on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Laettner, Christian...
Clubhouse lawyer, team cancer…. or so the legend goes…
Wizards could not wait to get rid of him….
I miss the days of Chrissy getting booed at home
Those were always good times
I'd be willing to trade Arenas for a contract that expires next summer
And yes, I mean “contract” not “player” because the quality of the player we get back wouldn’t be important to me. Even if Gilbert were to go on to star for another team, I’d be ok with it. I think this team needs to focus on being competitive in 2-3 years. Gilbert is by no means old, but he is older than the core of players I hope to lead us into the future. Freeing up his cap space would create an opportunity to trade space for draft picks and further solidify our youth movement. Throw in all of the questions about Gil’s health, production, and ability to play with Wall, Blatche, and McGee in a way that will develop them, and I just wouldn’t be able to say no to any offer that clears out our cap next summer.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jul 23, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions
If CP3 leaves New Orleans you could get your wish....
CP3 will probably be packaged with two toxic contacts that NO wants to dump — Okefor and Posey. That leaves Peja…. Gilbert for Peja plus a draft pick… Peja can even play some 3.
I am not advocating this, but it could work if management wanted to go that route.
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