Bobcats close to signing Shaun Livingston

He will get a crack at starter’s minutes in Charlotte at a price we cannot match to hold him as a 5th guard. I wish him well and was pleased that he could take advantage of the opportunity the Wizards gave him last spring (yes, that sounds like a PR guy, which is what I actually do….

Now that this seems settled, it’s time to get hold of a 3… The bridges are burned in DC, I am sure, but I think Butler is actually available. It would be interesting to see if he would play within his strengths with Wall cracking the whip on him, but I am actually in the JHo camp vs someone like Matt Barnes.

by khrabb on Jul 14, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions

butler?!

weren’t he and arenas clashing last season? not sure if that’s the environment we want to have around wall and a fresh start for the franchise. but i do think a sf with playoff experience would be helpful. barnes counts if that’s the criteria, and he plays d. think some veteran leadership and someone who has tasted the post season will be good to have on the squad, but not butler at this stage of the rebuild.

by Todd L on Jul 14, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Wall cracking the whip?

by MR on Jul 14, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought he was talking about Rasual Butler

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by Mike Prada on Jul 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Given that he stated something about burned bridges, you’d have to assume he was talking about Caron

by jones-y on Jul 14, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Oops, missed that

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by Mike Prada on Jul 14, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

AWH HELL, HECK, I MEAN HECK, NO!!!

Butler? Mr. I’m out for self, screw the coach’s play calling & system??

by 2StepsAway on Jul 14, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

It was a Swiftian suggestion... the Caron part....

but the need for a 3 who can score, inside and out, rebound a bit and defend a lot, is really the priority. That will cost more money than Yi or Armstrong but it would be worth it for Wall’s development .

by khrabb on Jul 14, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you opposed to the rebuilding effort

and developing young guys? Would you prefer the Grunfeld sign a bunch of veterans to push for the playoffs?

by disgrunted on Jul 14, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Would a playoff push hurt our rebuilding plans?

As long as we are still developing our young core (wall, blatche, mcgee) and giving them plenty of minutes, what’s the harm in making a playoff run? If Caron can buy into the team concept we could do both — make the playoffs and continue to develop for the future.

2008/2009
PG Arenas
SG Stevenson
SF Butler
PF Jamison
C Haywood

versus

2010
PG Wall
SG Arenas
SF Butler
PF Blatche
C McGee

We add Butler. We land the 6th seed in the playoffs. We upset the 3rd seed (Boston). Next we get the winner of the 7/2 seed (Orlando) and dismantle them. Then we play the Heat in the Eastern finals. We lose in seven games but gain a ton of experience. (A guy can dream, right)

We are still building for two/three years from now when Wall will be in his nearing his peak.

by LiveByMySword on Jul 14, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Love the thinking...

point is, with a decent 3 interesting outcomes are at least thinkable.

by khrabb on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

This line kind of puts the kibosh on your plan

If Caron can buy into the team concept

That’s a huge if in this environment, which for the moment still includes Gilbert.

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by Mike Prada on Jul 14, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Please stop talking about signing Caron Butler.

by MR on Jul 14, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

rec'd

not going to happen, shouldn’t happen. the end.

"hindsight is 50-50" - Steve Spurrier

by little stevie colter on Jul 14, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's why resigning Butler (or Josh Howard for that matter) hurts the rebuilding effort

Let’s say the Wizards trade for Butler, and let’s assume he behaves perfectly, follows orders, is a total team player, etc. Here is the impact:

- On the leadership scale, Wall gets knocked down a peg. I think we all are hoping Wall will be the team leader this season. Arenas may impact that — after all, Arenas has been a very successful player in the league. So, when something comes up, who will players look at and look to follow? Arenas or Wall? With Arenas on board, maybe players look to Wall second. Maybe having Hinrich means Wall is the third leader, or one of three leaders. Add Butler, make that four.

- Add Butler, and now the starting five is Wall, Arenas, Butler, Blatche and McGee. I’m guessing that on offense, Arenas would be the first option, Butler second, Wall third, Blatche fourth and McGee fifth. Replace Butler with Thornton, and now Wall is the second option, Blatche is third option, and McGee potentially fourth. Just moving up that one step gives those three greater opportunities for growth and development.

- Adding Butler would bump Thornton and Cartier Martin down a peg on the SF chart. So instead of getting starter minutes, Thornton, for example, would get 10-12 minutes a game, and Martin would get only spot duty. If you are not sold on Thornton, you probably are not concerned about this one.

- I think all of the above would apply if you replace Butler with Josh Howard.

Now, maybe you think that all of those things are good things — maybe Wall shouldn’t have leadership thrust on him from day one, and maybe Wall, Blatche and McGee shouldn’t have a higher level of responsibility right now, etc. That’s not a crazy position. I just think the alternative is better.

by disgrunted on Jul 14, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Personally

I think Thornton and Martin should be getting bench minutes. I’m rooting for Cartier, but I’m not expecting him to be a starter some day. And Thornton seems to be better as a 6th man. If we can’t find anybody for the gig, then, sure, we can live with Al getting starter’s minutes, but I’d still rather see a bit of an upgrade.

by imperialme on Jul 15, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Caron was awful last year

He has really regressed a lot. I don’t know why you guys would want him. He kills the offensive flow of the game, only scores in isolation plays. You all know this, instead of catch and shoot, he will catch, jab step, pump fake, jab step, jab step, pump fake, shoot….brick. He’s not even that solid on D anymore, not too mention some of the disagreements he had with Gil and Flip. Let’s just move on with someone else. Possibly Jho, maybe Matt Barnes, maybe Rasual Butler, maybe give Morrison a shot, maybe even play Nick Young at the 3. He bulked up a little bit, maybe get into his head that he can be a 3 and D guy.

by ToughHibachi on Jul 14, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

He was never solid on D

Actually, he was better last year than any other year.

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by Mike Prada on Jul 14, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I know D isn't based on steals alone,

but 06-08 I feel he was at his peak. He averaged 2.2 steals per game during that span, compared to 1.5 last year. Not to mention his rebounding dipped from over 7 a game to just over 6 per.

by ToughHibachi on Jul 14, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Personally I think Steals have nothing to do with D

Some guys who play no D but alot of minutes can rack up steals(AI, AJ, Gil). So can quality defenders. Quality defenders can also have low steal numbers. I kinda think Steal numbers tell you as much about a players defensive prowess as their assist numbers. Little to no causal relationship.

by BayAreaBullet on Jul 14, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions

At those terms I would keep him

although he’d probably prefer to go somewhere that he has a chance to play.

by MR on Jul 14, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

It's a real bummer

I would even be willing to go with a higher more guaranteed salary

by Matt Lilly on Jul 14, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

Fare thee well, Shaun

Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.

by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Jul 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions

Caron was awful last year

He has really regressed a lot. I don’t know why you guys would want him. He kills the offensive flow of the game, only scores in isolation plays. You all know this, instead of catch and shoot, he will catch, jab step, pump fake, jab step, jab step, pump fake, shoot….brick. He’s not even that solid on D anymore, not too mention some of the disagreements he had with Gil and Flip. Let’s just move on with someone else. Possibly Jho, maybe Matt Barnes, maybe Rasual Butler, maybe give Morrison a shot, maybe even play Nick Young at the 3. He bulked up a little bit, maybe get into his head that he can be a 3 and D guy.

by ToughHibachi on Jul 14, 2010 5:15 PM EDT reply actions