Briefing: Reaction to the Yi Jianlian trade
I'm not sure how I feel about the Yi Jianlian trade. About the closest thing I did to forming a real opinion was this post on SB Nation DC, but it admittedly only discusses one aspect of the trade:
Say what you want about Yi Jianlian and the wisdom of the trade, because there are ways to argue that it made sense. But if there's one thing we know about Yi Jianlian, it's this: he's the antithesis of a tough player. He's a jump-shooting big man that hates banging inside and doesn't rebound. No amount of coaching is going to change all of that.
I'm not saying the trade was terrible. It's not. But I am saying that the trade kind of undermines the rhetoric of getting tougher. That it happened on the same day the team spelled out this desire only makes the whole situation more ironic.
Not much of an opinion, I know. So instead, here's what everyone else is saying about it:
On the other side, you could also argue that a player can't be all that good if a team is willing to do all of that just to get rid of them. But these are desperate times for teams chasing James and overall, the Wizards feel pretty good about what they've been able to accomplish before the free agent signing period begins at 12:01 a.m. on Thursday.
There's a lot more good stuff in that link.
Really, I shouldn't be killing a team for taking a chance on a 6-11 guy who is 22 years of age, except for the way that the guy, really, isn't exactly 22 years of age. Washington only gave up the useful Quinton Ross; and though I like Ross a lot, the team's salary cap loss in trading this fourth guard for Yi was made up for by New Jersey sending the Wizards $3 million in the deal. And it really doesn't matter.
Because Yi isn't helping.
He just isn't. He'll show flashes, and he'll get hot from 20-feet and may even take in a few three-point plays (the only way this guy ever gets to the line) by following through and getting slapped on the forearm as his shot goes in, but otherwise he's pretty awful offensively despite his ability to dunk and nail long jumpers. The man boasts a 48 percent mark in true shooting percentage - a stat that takes into account your free throws and three-pointers along with your regular field goals - and that's just about as miserable as it gets for a power forward.
Keep in mind that this is the guy's all-encompassing shooting mark, a stat created to help him look better, and his entire existence is more or less based on offense. He averaged just one assist for every 36 minutes he played last season, and I'd hardly call this guy a screen-setter. He's also incredibly bad at defense. There really isn't an aspect of the game that this man exceeds in, save for playing big minutes.
Overall I like the move to get Yi ... finding time for six young bigs to play be damned. This is a ‘throw the ball out and see who wants it more' type of team. Having a roster chock-full of promise is exactly where the Wizards need to be. It's good problem to have.
And if someone falls behind the pack, send them to the D-League for seasoning. Imagine that, the Wizards using the D-League for player development. Yes, the previously unimaginable can happen under the reign of Leonsis.
Dave D'Alessandro, Newark Star-Ledger:
But it's a good move all around, and absolutely the best thing for the kid himself -- and we hope Yi gets the last laugh on all of us, which you still cannot rule out despite his lack of instincts. He works hard enough, and he has enough talent. He just needs stronger hands, the right system, and a little luck in terms of staying healthy for six months at a time.
Yi is expected to compete for a starting position with forward Andray Blatche, who broke his foot this summer and will be out of basketball-related activities for the next three months.
Um, no. That was funny, though.
Craig Stouffer, Washington Examiner:
"[Other teams are] trying to clear more cap space to see what they can do with that," Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld said. "But we made the decision that we're going to save some of our powder for the future and try to right now put a core of young players together that can grow and we can build with."
Kurt Helin, NBC's Pro Basketball Talk:
For the Wizards, it gives them a talented forward who has never quite found his game in the NBA and battled injury problems. He gave the Nets 32 minutes and 12 points a game last year, but shot just 40 percent on the season. He's a forward who shot just 51 percent at the rim and is all too happy to shoot the three. He's an okay rebounder.
Washington is taking some risk based on potential. But they are building and risks are part of that process. At least smart ones.
Rashad Mobley of Hoops Addict:
In Yi, the Washington Wizards gain a player who can play both the small and power forward positions, and he gives them a bit of insurance while Andray Blatche recovers from foot surgery. Salary cap wise, this still allows the Wizards flexibility since Yi has a player option that the team has the option of picking up at the end of the 2010-2011 season.
Are the Wizards significantly better right now because of the recent moves? Not necessarily. But they are trying something a little different, and they seem to have a plan. It's hard to get excited over Hinrich and Yi, but there seems to be a method behind the Wizards' front office madness. And there's also some guy named John Wall who should provide plenty of entertainment regardless of how the above trades turn out.
As far as talent is concerned, Yi surely has more of it than Ross and will surely play more than Ross would have, barring a number of serious back court injuries. He has physical skills and he has size. He doesn't move laterally very well and has yet to prove he can get the separation he needs to improve his shooting. You shouldn't make any big demands of him defensively either. He's a soft, perimeter player, but he's 7 feet tall and those guys usually get multiple chances in the NBA. This is Yi's third chance.
Does the deal get the Wizards closer to being a contender in the Eastern Conference? Probably not. Unless Yi makes big strides this year he won't be worth many wins to the Wiz and there is a very good chance he won't receive the qualifying offer at the end of the 2010-11 season.
The failed Yi experiment can finally be over and the Nets are able to clear up even more cap space. While they would still be a little short for two max contracts, every dollar counts in this year's free agency and they still have the potential of moving Kris Humphries's $3.2 million contract (he picked up his option yesterday). I was originally a supporter of the Yi experiment, but after watching Yi stumble over his own two feet for the past two years, it's safe to say that any value we can get for him is certainly good. His hopefully imminent departure represents more than just a poor power forward leaving: it's a mark of both erasing an idea from the Kiki era and a statement that the Nets, while attempting to become a global brand, are looking for talent over global marketability.
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Interesting variety of opinions
Personally I can’t see how this trade could be viewed as anything but a neutral shrug or better. I see no downside for the Wiz.
It all depends on how Yi performs
If he sucks, he is who we thought he was. If he gets better, It’s a good trade. However, most people, including me, thinks he’ll continue to stink.
The downside would come
if Yi is taking minutes away from other young guys who could be using that time to get better, while still producing zero defense, iffy shot selection and mediocre rebounding for one year before leaving.
I’m about where Dwyer is on this, I think.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Well
There is more downside that just whether Yi stinks for a year….
He is taking up an extra $3 Million in cap space – reducing the Wizard’s Cap space from $10.5 Million to just $7.5 Million….
Obviously, the more cap space, the more the Wizards can benefit from teams wanting to dump salary at the Trade Deadline; the more BOYD trades would be available, and the more options the team would have.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
by Rook6980 on Jun 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
WI
I thought on WI it said it doesn’t count towards our cap because we used our 4.5 mil trade exception here.
No
My understanding is the Wizards had to renounce their trade exception to absorb Yi’s contract on their cap.
There are NO exceptions when you are under the cap
You can only use exceptions when you are over the cap….
In order to do the deal, the Wizards had to renounce one of their trade exceptions (which count on the cap, just like a roster hold).
So the Wizards cap number went from $10.5 Million to $7.5 Million.
I believe they can still sign players (Free Agents), up to that $7.5 Million, without having to renounce their remaining trade exception. . . So they can fill out their roster by signing Josh Howard, Childress, and other players….. but any trades they make, they would have to either use their other ($6 Million) Trade Exception, or renounce it.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
That makes me think we will likely hold off on more trades this summer
Maybe we’ll sign Childress, and wait until the deadline to use the $6mil trade exception.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
To sign Chill, we'd have to renounce that exception
Long story short, the TPEs count on your cap if you’re under the cap.
The way Rook explained it
they don’t have to renounce it if they sign FAs. Otherwise, what is the point of a trade exception if you have to give it up when you trade for a player or sign a player?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's wrong here
You either get your cap space or your exceptions. You don’t get both.
Trade exceptions are great for teams already over the cap. For teams under the cap, they’re kind of pointless.
So all that talk about Grunfeld
doing a good job to get the exceptions back at the deadline was all B.S.?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
For example, the Wiz could have used their exceptions before June 30th to absorb a contract right away.
I also could be wrong. But my understanding is exceptions are exceptions for a reason.
I think I've read Coon's FAQ
five times, and I’m no closer to understanding the CBA.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
His reply
http://twitter.com/LarryCoon/statuses/17446570631
So yeah, it sounds like the TPEs are pretty much worthless right now.
Seriously, Are we resigning Singleton?
That guy had a great knack for grabbing boards and blocking shots. He was very smooth out there.
Would be a great vet on the frontline. Whats the scoop with him?
He can be our front line vet to help mold the young guys
First big off the bench. And he’s still our most proven rebounder, shot blocker, and glue guy.
big game james.
ask ernie about him
Let’s use Yi as bait in a Carmello s&t deal. You know the Nugs are dying to line him up next to Nene.
Trade Chips
I feel like the Wiz are trying to acquire as many young prospects as possible to give flexibility and position themselves to trade for a great player at a later time.
The downside of this deal...
…is that the front office isn’t maximizing the value of the cap space it has to sell.
Why keep taking back cash? Unless they plan to use the $6 million they’ve pocketed from the Hinrich and Yi deals to purchase first round picks in the future, they’re fundamentally screwing up the BOYD strategy, in my opinion.
Take a chance on Yi, fine. Get a useful player for a year or two in Hinrich, fine. But get picks too. Even if they’re in the future. Even if they’re lottery protected. The picks are still assets that can be used in trades, or (gasp) even used to pick useful players.
The whole point of selling cap space should have been to make teams cough up draft picks. Especially a team like New Jersey, which is likely to strike out with A-list free agents and suck again next season.
by TheSecretWeapon on Jun 30, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think draft picks are the sole target
It’s young talent that we should be targeting. I think Yi applies.
by MR on Jun 30, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
…I have no objection to acquiring Yi, even though I have next to zero hope that he’ll be useful for the Wizards. My point is about the other part of the deal — cash. Screw the cash — get picks instead.
by TheSecretWeapon on Jun 30, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Is a 25 year old young though?
Here is a copy of the ESPN story from 2008 about the Chinese-language edition of Sports Illustrated uncovering Yi’s middle school registration forms which list his birth year as 1984.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=3786839
Draft Express and NBADraft.net also believe that Yi was born in 1984.
This is of particular importance in this trade because the team’s strategy is to acquire young assets and draft picks, and 25 is too old to have potential/upside.
I will shut up about this now, promise.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 30, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That is what summers are for...
Dare to dream… Yi as a Far Out, Far East Odom is quite a vision. Maybe he will also hook up with one of Khloe’s sisters.
No I was responding specifically to this:
He’s a jump-shooting big man that hates banging inside and doesn’t rebound. No amount of coaching is going to change all of that.
That’s exactly what Odom was before.
I’m speaking specifically about the fact that for most of his early career, Odom hardly even stepped foot in the paint. Now he gets in there a lot and mixes it up. I’m just saying its not unthinkable for Yi to make the same transition.
Now the role Odom plays in the Lakers’ offensive sets, I won’t argue that… But my point is that Odom now gets inside (where he belongs) and before, he didn’t.
by jones-y on Jun 30, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
Odom was more of a shotblocker his first three years than he has been since (and I know shotblocking doesn’t necessarily = “mixing up inside,” but it’s one indicator). But I do sort-of agree that Yi still could improve, although I don’t think it’s likely to happen this year.
Ridiculous Upside, where developing talent and winning are not mutually exclusive.
Toughness and Young Player Development
I agree that it’s weird to have all of your young players in the same position. It is hard to develop them each and all.
I disagree that this “undermines the rhetoric of getting tougher.” Getting tougher does not just mean adding bruisers, and only bruisers. It means adding enough bruisers — diversifying your team. Before, we had one guy (ONE) who played tough D — Haywood (pre=team blow-up). We now have 3 (Hinrich, and 2, at least, on paper, in Seraphim and Booker).
A minor upgrade is a minor upgrade
1. We traded a horrible player for a mediocre player plus cash. What’s not to like?
2. The Wizards are going to make lots more moves before the summer is out. Best to withhold final judgment until the dust completely settles.
by aargh on Jun 30, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
When exactly will the “dust settle” -
The dust in my house NEVER settles…. and I don’t want to hold off judgment , and give my opinion about the suckitude of this trade on the off-chance that there’s something else coming later that will change my opinion….
If they turn around and trade Yi for an All-Star – THEN I’ll like this trade.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
what he brings...
Uncle Ted is a great business man, and he is looking at how many fans are in China and around the world. All the allstar votes and jerseys Wall, Arenas, and Blatch will get/sell this next season from the billion fans on the other side of the planet is going to look good on the quarterly figures (ok they all don’t watch b-ball, but more will once they get a load of the great wall of chinatown and agent #6).
We also picked up a couple of Africans one via France (and Sun Yue another Chinese player to play in Vegas). This all plays into extending our brand and marketability which will attract more big name free agents and so forth. Remember this is a rebuilding year aligning pieces and cap space for the future. We are the nations capital and should have a team that represents the world. This doesn’t mean we still can’t change our name to the “Chocolate City Ballers” or old school style “Le Bullets” (silent t and s, like the french, we).
I also read somewhere that we used our trade exemption on Yi, so it doesn’t count against our cap space (please correct me if I’m wrong… I’ll be hitting up the local pubs and don’t want to make an arse of myself ;)
Le Bullet – where being a fan isn’t easy, but at least you get cool scars as parting gifts every season.
by Le Bullet on Jun 30, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It still counts against our cap space
I also read somewhere that we used our trade exemption on Yi, so it doesn’t count against our cap space (please correct me if I’m wrong… I’ll be hitting up the local pubs and don’t want to make an arse of myself ;)
The other thing is that, based on my read of the CBA, we didn’t use the exception, we simply had to renounce it in order to absorb Yi’s contract (which means we can’t use them). If you have exceptions and you’re under the cap, they count on your cap figure until you renounce them.
Gracias
Just read your piece “NBA Free Agency 2010” good read. Now why do you think we didn’t want to get a big name this year? Are we waiting for Carmelo or Durant? Or just trying to figure out what to do with Gil? Or we still just suck at this whole building a contender thing?
Le Bullet – where we be do the cheesy Wall dance (poorly) all year round and love every second of it.
Because, as Ted has said, Big name FA's
don’t necessarily mean Championships…
He wants to build through the draft… and that plan does NOT include going after max contract Free Agents this year, or probably next year either.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
What about in February?
Isn’t Yi a better expiring to unload at the trade deadline. I hate to give Ernie the benefit of the doubt, but couldn’t this be a move to get a better piece next year?
by Elvin_is_my_Elvis on Jun 30, 2010 3:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wouldn't teams rather not receive anything back
than receive an expiring contract back? If we are trading him, then Yi’s value will have been proven to be nothing more than an expiring contract. Otherwise, we would not be trade him. So if we are looking at trading Yi, he will be 26 years old and will have failed to make an impact on three lottery teams. In which case, taking nothing back in a BOYD deal is much preferred to taking back an expiring.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 30, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
There’s little hope for Yi being useful as an expiring contract unless we are planning on going over the cap and are then bound by the 125% rule.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If we are trading him, then Yi’s value will have been proven to be nothing more than an expiring contract.
Which is pretty valuable…
taking nothing back in a BOYD deal is much preferred to taking back an expiring.
But that assumes we will still have cap space at the trade deadline next february. We still have a roster to fill out so I’m not confident that will be the case.
Quote fixed:
taking nothing back in a BOYD deal is much preferred to taking back an expiring.
But that assumes we will still have cap space at the trade deadline next february. We still have a roster to fill out so I’m not confident that will be the case.
There were ways to fill out the roster and keep the cap space
Like, not paying $9 million for a third guard, and finding a cheaper guy than Yi.
Yeah, nothing back is better than an expiring
Especially at the deadline, where teams could be dumping money in fear of a new CBA.
Not just dumping money
but PAYING teams to take their players….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Just wondering...
what’s the point of accumulating draft picks under BOYD if: a) when you have picks, they are never good enough according to this community (we did just draft 4 prospects) and b) we have to watch a team of “dead” for the next few years- which will ensure that no free agent will ever want to come here.
I like the current strategy- bring some toughness and expiring contracts in (Yi off the books next summer, with a year to evaluate now- and Heinrich’s expiring contract next summer). We drafted well all things considered (Wall is obvious- but anything beyond the 15th pick is really a “throw against the wall and see who sticks”). Could we have moved higher t 11, maybe/maybe not- II don’t care. Any pick not in the top 5 this year has huge question marks. Cheer up folks…we got some young guys who like to play defense. I’m excited, I almost forgot what defense looked like around here.
Let’s get respectable (focus on good character guys who hustle from start to finish), decide which contracts come off the books next year- and bring in some FA pieces once we have a better sense of what this current teams holes are.
by WizardsFan on Jun 30, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If anything beyond 15 is throw it against the wall and see what sticks
then why trade the #30 and #35 for the #17. By your own logic, Grunfeld made a mistake.
I think that higher picks are clearly better which is why I’m frustrated we didn’t get the #11. I also think that picks are better than cash which is why I’m frustrated we got the highest amount of cash back in our two deals rather than getting more picks, and why I’m also frustrated that we didn’t buy #25.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I don't think many of us are complaining about the players we got
Personally I don’t know anything about either of them, so I have nothing to base an opinion on. But it is frustrating to think that we could have got higher picks and chosen a player we rated more highly.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 30, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, not sure the issue is the players
It’s that we’re concerned we overpaid using BOYD to get them.
Not the players they got....
I know that MY issue was not with the players they drafted…..
But I do question, with the depth of this draft, whether there may have been missed opportunities:
( buying the 25th pick , instead of trading two later picks for the 23rd )
And I question the cost to get the 17th pick ($17 Million over 2-years – when the 11th pick went for FAR less)
I am perfectly happy with Wall, Booker, Seraphin and N’diaye – and I graded the Wizards draft as an A
I also think there was a possibility they could have done better.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
you forgot one thing...
this is the bullets we are talking about. We had Wes as GM for a lifetime making the brilliant moves in the past, now we have just updated the formula. They call us the “Wizards” now for Buddha’s sake. How humiliating! What does a wizard have to do with the nations cap? But i digress, we could have done better, but I think there are many moves to come and I’ll give uncle ted the benefit of the doubt, and sit on my couch waiting for updates. I just thank the B-ball gods for bullets forever, truth about it, real gm, and mike lee.
Le Bullet - where being a fan isn't easy, but we have lots of cool scars to show for it.
Unique Position
The Wizards are not in a similar position than most teams. We did the impossible last year, when we somehow mixed being Clippers-East with old Portland Gunblazers of the past. I think BOYD is a strategy you pursue when you have the time to build from scratch. I just don’t think the Wizards, or Ted Leonsis, think they can move down that path. Fans will flee if they see only “the Dead” on the court for the next few years. I think the realization was that no free agents want to play here while there is so much upheaval. So the Wizards are trading for high character guys that give them flexibility when they’ll need it in a year or two. Until then, change the culture and the character of the team- respect your fans and your city by showing some grit and hustle.
I truly don’t think picks 30/35, 11, 25, etc. matter at all to management. I think they are setting up the pieces to become a real player (one that free agents actually want to consider) two years down the road.
I disagree
They saw Ted basically go through the hockey version of BOYD for a while. They’d trust him.
No they wouldn't
The margin of error is much smaller for the Wizards- for a variety of reasons (problems that Gilbert caused, the Clipper-East reputation, etc.). Strict adherence to BOYD is nonsensical when you have to climb up from being a doormat. We will probably have 10 players, incl. 4 just drafted, 25 and under when all is said and done- there is no need to simply accumulate assets. We HAVE young assets- now its time for them to show that they can play in this league.
Hell, in the end, we're talking about us
Would you stick through it? I would, and most people on here would. The casual fans would because they get to watch John Wall.
Honestly...
Not sure- I don’t WANT to see Wall and the Dead (he doesn’t either). Taking on the Dead contracts is not a strategy for fan retention…The strategy they are pursuing now is much more prudent. Bring in young talent, let it develop and the contracts should have flexibility built in within 2 years. Seems like a similar strategy that the Bulls pursued 2 years ago.
The other thing is that these trades are hurting flexibility, not helping it
At least the Hinrich trade hurt flexibility going forward.
All depends...
Hinrich becomes an expiring contract player next year- so if you are making the bet that nobody wants to come here this year (and you don’t want to put out a miserable product) then its solid. Also, it buys you a solid backup to Arenas if he gets traded, gets injured…or goes off the deep end.
Since when is having decent players on your team bad?
Come on- we need players. Can’t just have salary cap space and hoping for someone to come to a terrible team…that is the NY Knicks strategy and its going to fail spectacularly. Respectability first- that is what attracts players down the line.
Now you're strawman-ing
The two are not mutually exclusive. You can BOYD and find guys who are just as good (and cheaper) as Kirk Hinrich and Yi Jianlian.
Who cares about cheaper?
We are not playing for this year’s FA or next year’s for that matter. We are getting money back in return…We have plenty of picks, not in the future…today, let’s hope it works out.
I'm done discussing this with you
Sorry, but I just don’t think we’re coming close to speaking the same language, and it’s best if we just agree to disagree.

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