Mike Miller told me with the Wizards landing the number one pick it changes everything. He would love to play with John Wall calling him a shooters dream.
Note that Mike said John Wall is a shooter's dream, not that he dreams of being a shooter. That's an important distinction.
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Jake Whitacre
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I knew there had to be a downside to getting the #1 pick
by disgrunted on Jun 3, 2010 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
possibly...
A sign and trade for Utah’s #9 pick and an expiring contract? He would fit in great in utah.
by jeffco01 on Jun 3, 2010 11:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or to Orlando though I doubt they'd let Gortat go.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 3, 2010 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he's the sore thumb
sticking out in their payroll breakdown. he makes the most of any guy playing limited minutes. They signed him to make something of him this offseason IMO. His is a pretty reasonable contract IF he can play extended minutes and keep up the production.
good news
I hope the Wizards sign Miller. I think his value is strongest when he’s not expected to be a feature scorer. With a starting lineup of Wall, Arenas, Miller, Blatche and McGee, Miller would be the 4th option, which is just about right for him. Of course the price would have to be right, and that would involve taking a bit of a paycut, but I can’t imagine Miller is expecting to earn what he earned last season.
Right on right on. Resign Miller + Haywood = playoffs. Would also allow McGee to develop as Haywood gets older.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
So in essence: we won the lottery, now we can stop rebuilding
and start reloading. I don’t think so, if anything signing the FA’s that could have us in the playoffs next season harms the overall rebuilding process by giving us Wall, three 30 year olds, and our existing youth movement (Blatche, McGee, Young) with no more lotto picks to build around. Uninspiring. Further, wouldn’t Miller, Haywood, Singleton, and Livingston collectively eat up the BOYD cap space?
by morethesamewiz on Jun 3, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
We have Bird Rights on them
So no, not necessarily. I’m with you though – forget Miller, find someone cheaper to fill his role, and keep Shaun and James.
what kind of contract do you think Miller will be able to get?
I’d like Livingston as well, I just don’t see him resigning here with Wall.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 3, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm also for prioritizing a BOYD trade over signing free agents
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 3, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You’ll get your wish. Our free agent signings would come after efforts to facilitate BOYD trades before/during the draft.
I’m all for BOYD as the first option, too — anything at draft pick no. 15 or under would be fine with me. After that, arguably the cap space you’re losing by making the trade isn’t worth the potential young talent you’re getting in return. The best of both worlds would be to get a pick 9-15, maybe draft Donatas and stash him overseas, and use his money to pay a short-term free agent now.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It's important to note that BOYD doesn't have to end after the draft
In fact, keeping that cap space open might be really, really valuable next season, when so many teams are likely to want to dump salary in trades in order to avoid the wrath of a new CBA. Losing the flexibility for in-season unbalanced trades just to retain Mike Miller or pay someone else more than, say, 3-4 million next season really isn’t worth it.
by Mike Prada on Jun 3, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like that as a third option. Wait it out and see how the players/picks perform. Sign no one. Not bad.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, and the Wizards have enough cap space to pull off at least 2 BOYD trades.
That said, I’m also in favor of having some decent and reasonably priced veterans who help to keep the team competitive, and who provide a positive locker room presence. And I say that with the long term in mind, and not so much winning games next season.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 3, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Memphis
Traded a future second rounder to Denver for Steven Hunter and a first round draft pick in August of last year. So the strategy may peak right before the draft for obvious reasons but it definitely doesn’t end there. Another high point is right before the trading deadline…
thats a jump of maybe 15 spots
if that could get the Wiz to pick at the end of the lottery then the BOYD would be worth it
Totally Agree...
Would like to see a younger player in his place, really would be a waste of money to sign him to anything longer than a year. Same goes for Josh Howard.
by TheRealBigMike on Jun 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
If everything goes right for us we can still make moves at the trading deadline
Especially if we pick up a large expiring in a BOYD trade. We can still make big moves this year even if we sit out FA.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 3, 2010 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The BOYD strategy is a good option (and may be the best one) — but it is only a possibility that may not happen. No guarantee Utah would even consider trading its pick and AK for cap space, for example. No guarantee that a BOYD pick later in the draft results in a good player, either. So signing the players that you might have in hand, now, in order to make a run should not be dismissed as a rational alternative strategy. Also, the fact that we do have youth (McGee, Blatche, Young, Wall) is support for moving forward with a mixture of young and old, with time for the young ones to develop. Why do you think the Clips always, always suck (for example)? Mostly because they’re always in the lottery, which is where we don’t want to be if we want to put together a contender anytime soon.
no
zapping cap space for “a run” but not true contention is in no way a “rational alternative strategy”. its a strategy that ends in the first round of the playoffs with a pick in the high teens and no chance of actually doing anything once we get to the playoffs. In other words, exactly the house of cards we just tore down so we could do it right for the first time since Abe bought the team.
M
by Jheiser3 on Jun 3, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK — did the Lakers build their contender through the draft? No. The Celts? No. Suns? No. Heat? No. Spurs? Well, mostly yes. Exactly what examples are you looking at to recommend a course of action for us? We’ve got Wall, Arenas, Blatche, McGee. Aren’t those building blocks enough? How bad do you recommend we become over the next two years before we become the next Lakers, Celts, or Suns?
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Such disgruntled-ism. You gotta be realistic about what your options are. Who in the world is worth tanking for, NEXT year? Wall might turn out to be hall-of-fame good. Ain’t that enough to work with?
by Tbonebullets on Jun 3, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
next year's draft
may be one of history’s weakest if it’s still projected that the 2011/12 NBA season will involve a lockout.
Personally I’m not in favor of throwing money at free agents to try to win now, but that said tanking is an equally bad strategy. I don’t think it’s necessarily the case that the Wizards require another top-5 pick to build a championship team in the long run for example.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Kyle Singer is projected lottery...lol
How about we use our 1st round pick year in a trade for something now…in a BOYD. I want the young guys, but next year is a Kwame draft.
Lottery????
If he is drafted in the lottery then the draft WILL suck.
But what about next years crop of one-and-done guys like CJ Leslie, Josh Selby, Harrison Barnes, etc, etc…they might be lottery picks by the end of next year.
Wall hasn't played one game in the NBA
If you think the Wizards should build around him, why not wait a year or two to figure out what type of NBA player he is and what types of players fit best around him? And then go get those players with the cap space you have saved. If you try to get free agents now to pair with Wall, you’ll be making those decisions on a lot of guesses and assumptions, making the signings especially risky.
Good points Disgrunted
Also the Celtics did build through the draft. They drafted alot of young guys which they traded for KG and Allen. Plus right now their 2 best players were drafted.
Also why does everone assume we have the financial resources the Lakers and Celtics and Magic have.
I love wall but people are putting the cart before the horse. Let him develop from good to great before we open a championship window. Hate to have him develop 2 years from now just as players we have now go into decline.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 3, 2010 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Might
As long as you have to keep throwing “might” into every scenario its not making a strong case.
I think a good first step would be to recognize that none of us who are against spending on a max free agent this yaer are advocating TANKING. Never said ti never will. I said spend money on one year contracts for guys who fit on the floor and in the locker room.
I never said tank
Just don’t throw away cap space to win 40 games and go out in the first round again. How many times do you have to play the season out the same way before you make a change?
How did the Celtics acquire those contending pieces, all stars and all NBA players? By trading the high draft picks they stocked. The Lakers drafted Kobe, Bynum, Fisher, Vujacic, Walton, and Farmar. Then they made BIG moves for Odom and then Gasol. Draft first, add Free Agents or trade for big guns when you’re ready, not when you’re still figuring out if players. The Heat drafted Wade, Haslem and several pieces before making the key trades for Shaq, Pose etc. Again: DRAFT FIRST then fill in where you need it.
Throwing money at a team full of question marks is an honest to god terrible flipping idea. I apologize for being harsh but its like some folks around here have amnesia when it comes to the last 5 years of stagnant luxury tax mediocrity and they want to go right back there when we FINALLY have flexibility and willingness to truly rebuild.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 3, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree 100%
I really wish the people advocating signing those second tier guys would stop engaging in straw man arguments. Not signing someone this year doesn’t equate to a tank job and it doesn’t preclude us from making a big move at mid season or next summer or later.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 3, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree 200%
Not every team that holds onto cap space is tanking. If you know that no team you could currently construct could be in championship contention, then there is no reason to go all in. I know that barring a Lebron/Bosh signing, that no team that we could currently trade or sign to build could be a championship contender in the next few years. I know that. First, we have no clue what we have and therefore we do not know what we need. Every single player on the roster is a question mark, every single one except Ross (Gil, Nick, Dray, Vale, Thornton—and you can count Wall). I don’t think anyone in this forum can predict how any of the players will perform individually next season, much less the next few seasons, and much much less how they will perform as a unit. Second, the players that we need are going to become available over time through the draft and BOYD opportunities. Many of those opportunities are not there yet. Many will become available as the cap-level and teams situations fluctuate over the next couple of seasons. Spending as little as possible (especially in terms of multi-year contracts) gives us the flexibility and cap space to pursue those opportunities when they arise.
Those two conditions alone justify holding onto our money, and then add to that the benefit that holding onto our money yields in increased draft prospects and its hard to justify any other strategy.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 3, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Miller but...
passing up those open looks would drive me nuts, and he’s a bit turnover prone. Let’s get younger and cheaper.
Another good point...
Mike was extremely shy at times when it came to shooting and couldn’t understand that being the shooter that he is.Seemed like he was more fascinated with being a distributor, which is not necessarily a polished part of his game.
by TheRealBigMike on Jun 3, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does not making a big FA splash equate to tanking to so many people?
If Wall is a stud from the go and Arenas and AB play well we can compete for the playoffs and get those final pieces at the deadline or next summer.
If they’re not ready then we will be glad we didn’t make stupid moves.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 3, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Tanking
The tanking comments are reaction to arguments favoring not signing free agents because the wizards “need” more high draft choices in the future. Personally I don’t want the wizards to spend big money on free agents, but would support modest signings.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 3, 2010 10:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bring Out Your Dead
in other words, we’ll take your bad contract (with one year left) in exchange for draft picks or young talent. New Orleans has Peja, Indy has a couple, the Jazz have Kirilenko…
correction
they also include draft picks or young players and we send a little salary back but not much, maybe even a conditional second rounder…
No sweat
BOYD stands for “Bring Out Your Dead”. The phrase is not widely known, so you might not have heard it if you aren’t a BF junkie.
Check out the details here:
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/4/9/1412840/the-bring-out-your-dead-strategy
by MR on Jun 3, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are analyzing his quote too closely.
Im pretty sure he was was relating to himself when he referred to John as a “shooters dream”
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