NBA Draft Rumors Thread
by Mike Prada on Jun 24, 2010 12:56 PM EDT
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PrintEditor's Note: This will double up as the pre-draft open thread.
Consider this a place to drop any rumor of any kind you see over the next couple days. I'll start with this news from Woj:
Working to clear as much salary-cap space as possible for free agency, the Miami Heat have agreed in principle to trade Daequan Cook and the 18th overall pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder for the No. 32 selection in the draft, sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Ugh. Exactly the trade I wanted the Wizards to make. Where were they? And as much as Cook kind of sucks, he's not the worst $2.1 million investment.
UPDATE: Via David Aldridge:
Chicago and Washington have also expressed interest in Rudy Fernandez, 25, who was acquired from Phoenix in 2007 on Draft night and signed with Portland the following summer. The Bulls would like to move their first-round pick, 17th overall, for Fernandez. The Wizards offered guard Nick Young for Fernandez but were turned down.
Hey Blazers, we want your shooting guard prospect, and are willing to give you back our inferior shooting guard prospect. Wait, why are you hanging up the phone?
UPDATE: Okay, here's a bombshell from Draft Express:
Hearing some chatter from a trusted NBA source about a potential Gilbert Arenas for Vince Carter trade in the works. Wonder how real it is.
Carter, obviously, would come as part of a salary dump. He has a partially-guaranteed contract for 2011/12.
UPDATE: Nevermind. Michael Lee tweets this:
Was told Wiz & ORL talked about Arenas-Carter swap, but conversation didn't get far. One prominent player agent said, "Not going to happen."
UPDATE: Lee says the Wizards are trying to move into the lottery, but don't have many trade pieces. He's forgetting the cap space we have that would allow us to take back a bad contract.
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EG was asleep on this one
If I was Ted I would be in EG’s face! This trade had Wizards name all one it. Even though Cook as a complete player sucks, he has potential to have run with Wall because of his shot and $2,1 million back is nothing. Hard to stomach!!!!!!
So gross
There is no good reason for us not to be the trade partner here.
by sierradave on Jun 23, 2010 7:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
here is something i want to see happen. the lakers need to get some luxary tax relief correct. cant you sell draft picks for cash in the nba? if you can i would take the lakers 2 2nd round picks cuz they dont need them
Mike Green in regular season- Norris Canadiate. Mike Green in Playoffs- Nowhere to be found
give the lakers 6 mill for there 2 2nd rounders
Mike Green in regular season- Norris Canadiate. Mike Green in Playoffs- Nowhere to be found
but that wouldn't give the Lakers any luxury tax relief
if anything, the Lakers would prefer to use those two 2nd round picks on players to put on their roster at $600,000 salaries, rather than have to sign costly veterans to replace JFarmer, SBrown and JPowell.
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If you were Miami
would you give away a mid round draft pick to someone in your division, or someone in the other conference?
Why blame Ernie?
by MR on Jun 23, 2010 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the Wiz offered a better deal
then the Heat should have taken it. The Heat are trying to win now, and it’s like the Wizards are their competition.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 23, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
People are quick to jump to conclusions assuming EG was ‘asleep at the wheel’ with this one. It’s easy to point the finger at Ernie but I’m sure he made the pitch to Miami – whether it was a solid offer or not, who knows. But along the lines of what MR said, why help out another team in your division when similar offers are coming in from other teams (especially one from the other conference)?
by geechy_suede on Jun 23, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Divisions don't mean much in basketball
Not when they play the same number of games against each other.
Sure it does...
When the difference is between a 1-4 seed and home court advantage as opposed to being seeded 5-8 and playing on the road, I’m sure it has some relevance. The number of games played is moot because, in the end, you still have to win those games so why improve the Wizards chances of beating you? You never want to help out your division rivals unless it made the most sense for your team. And like I said previously, I would think numerous teams (the Wizards included) made similar offers in terms of value. So again, why agree to helping out a division rival? Now I’m not saying that being in the same division as MIA was the dealbreaker. But if all the Wizards offered, for example, was the 35th pick and future considerations, that’s not appealing enough to me if I’m MIA’s GM.
by geechy_suede on Jun 23, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And like I said previously, I would think numerous teams (the Wizards included) made similar offers in terms of value.
What makes you think this? With this team’s history of the past few years, this is a silly assumption.
(Also, the Thunder offered nothing).
The past few years
seem pretty much irrelevant at this point. That aside, I think it’s silly to assume that the Wizards (and numerous teams) didn’t make an offer, or at least didn’t consider it, just because they didn’t end up making the deal. It’s also quite possible that EG wasn’t interested in the move for reasons that you haven’t considered.
I'm sorry, but we say this every. single. time.
That aside, I think it’s silly to assume that the Wizards (and numerous teams) didn’t make an offer, or at least didn’t consider it, just because they didn’t end up making the deal.
Again, agreed
Sorry, Mike. Let me rephrase and say that I would sure like to think (as in, hope) that the Wizards made a similar offer and were simply unfortunate to not be the winner. Stanicek hit it on the head – just because it was OKC, and not us, that ended up striking the deal doesn’t mean we didn’t try which was the emphasis of my first post.
And I agree that the past few years are irrelevant because we were not in the position that we are in this year with us having cap space and being in rebuilding mode. We all knew that this team was in “win now” mode up until the firesale in February. Sacrificing the present for the future just wasn’t in our short-term plan at the time. So I really can’t blame Ernie for his actions… or lack of actions.
Also, the Thunder offered nothing.
Very true. But OKC’s “nothing” was the 32nd pick whereas our offer of “nothing” may very well have been the 35th pick. In that case, OKC obviously wins out. If and/or when Ernie made his pitch, he probably didn’t know what other offers were out there, so maybe he attempted to lowball MIA, and as a result, OKC’s lowball offer was simply a better one. Who knows? I certainly don’t. These are just my thoughts and assumptions. Sue me ;)
by geechy_suede on Jun 23, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh jeez
Very true. But OKC’s "nothing" was the 32nd pick whereas our offer of "nothing" may very well have been the 35th pick.
Well then offer the 30th pick. Or, offer OKC’s offer sooner.
come on, dude
Your “oh jeez” was unneccesary. No need for the patronizing and condescending rebuttals. I’m here to discuss and debate, not be belittled. Out of everything I said, you pick out the one line that I clearly said was my assumption and reply back with a “Well then offer the 30th pick”? That came off as a borderline childish response – with little to no thought behind it – as if you just had to have the last say. I welcome intelligent arguments, not pissing contests.
Having said that, haven’t you said before that a 2nd round pick holds more value than a late 1st rounder this year? Especially for teams like Miami who aren’t looking to guarantee any money to rookies? If you have something respectful and insightful to say, I’d like to hear it. If not, don’t bother.
For the 2+ years I’ve been following this site, I have always respected your thoughts and views. Please do the same for me.
by geechy_suede on Jun 24, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry about that
You’re right – been popping in on this thread while writing and being cranky about that – shouldn’t have taken it out on you.
No worries
I appreciate the acknowledgement
by geechy_suede on Jun 24, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
32 is way more valuable than the #30 to Miami
They want out of the first round guarantee for cap reasons. Possible OKC’s offer trumped anything we would be willing to give.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 24, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a matter of perspective...
We keep hearing all week long that Miami is willing to move their pick to get additional Cap room… At the same time, we hear that Washington is looking for ways to move up, or acquire additional picks (even if it means taking on salary)….
But it’s Oklahoma City that pulls the trigger…..
Like I said below – I don’t know that Ernie made an offer, or that he didn’t – but I keep having the feeling that the Wizards are a step slow …. Other teams are snapping their fingers and making trades (Bucks trading twice….. Wolves and Griz swapping picks…. Minnesota now has 6 picks in the draft…. C’s shopping their pick)…. and the Wizards seem to be sitting on their hands…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
sorry - hit post by mistake
Now – Ernie may be sitting on some moves for Tomorrow (I sure hope so)…. because, frankly, after all the talk by Ted Leonsis about coveting additional picks, and the ease with which some teams seem to be able to get things done – I’ll be disappointed if after tomorrow’s draft, we end up with the same 3 picks we started off with.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
as I said below
I would not be surprised…
by rayallenisaballer on Jun 23, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If Ernie cannot pick up one first-rounder
Ted does not need to give him the rest of the offseason to prove himself. There are deals to be made. The picks are out there for the taking. How do I know? Because they are already being made and they are offers that we could match every bit as much as the teams receiving the picks. They could have had our 30, instead of OKC’s 32 and I seriously doubt Ted would have been loathe to take back Cook’s contract, he has promoted the BOYD strategy explicitly.
And the division rival thing is bogus. Nobody in their right mind imagines the Wizards challenging the Magic for primacy in the Southeast in the next three seasons. Would the Magic really hold off on dealing with us because they are worried about the power dynamic in the 2013-14 season.
And as Mike said, assuming that your GM made the offer is pure intellectual laziness. To any doubters, the Gee saga made clear that yes it is entirely possible for Ernie to sometimes let the ball drop plain and simple. Therefore one cannot assume that is not the case here.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
Miami might have valued the #32 more than than #30 because it’s not guaranteed. But I agree that there should be no excuses for Ernie. Some deal needs to be made.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 24, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
agree with Palace
I think the cap ramifications made the 32 better than the 30 or 35.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 24, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I don’t like their insistence on switching picks, either. A lot of people, including me, think this draft is awesome and we ought to insist on purchases rather than trading up in any way.
I hope teams start to panic as the draft starts to begin. I’m sure Ernie has made all the calls.
It's ernie.......
Let’s see what he does tomorrow before we hand him our trust back. He made all the calls last year and gave up the 5th pick in the draft for miller/foye, he needs to do something good before i’ll trust that he’s thinking about all the options we think he should
So Angry
But at the same time, we all know how good OKC’s GM is. So its kinda like losing to a all-star. Still….Ernie come on son
I dont think it took a lot of brilliance to realize that is a good deal. i will stick with the assumption ernie passed on the #17 pick because he is working a legitimate shot at an even lower pick. or, the heat took the obviously better choice between two non-guaranteed second round draft picks.
by les boulez bomber on Jun 24, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
found this interesting
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/blazers-guard-sparks-knicks-interest/
Mike Green in regular season- Norris Canadiate. Mike Green in Playoffs- Nowhere to be found
According to ESPN.com
The Boston Celtics have put their first-round pick in Thursday’s draft — No. 19 overall — on the market, sources told ESPN.com, with an eye toward making one more run at a championship next season. Although Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge has an excellent record on Draft Night, making productive picks after all the so-called big names have shaken David Stern’s hand, the reasoning behind trading the pick, according to a source, would be to take the money that would be guaranteed to a first-rounder and spend it elsewhere, likely on a veteran free agent. That would be in keeping with the current mission statement of the Celtics, which is to try and make one more serious run at an NBA title before a potential lockout in July 2011. ESPN.com
So, Ernie, It can only cost $3 Million (maximum a team can pay for a draft pick) – GO GET IT!
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
That would be a great deal, though I expect there would be some competition…if it were possible to take on Rasheed’s pre-retirement salary, or some other commitment they have, then maybe the Celts choose us.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 23, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be great
to pay 3 mil for that pick. I really like that spot. I also like BOYD with the pacers for Troy Murphy’s 10 mil expiring contract. #10 would allow us to pick up an impact player (x henry). Is it possibly to pull off a sign and trade with livingston since Indiana is looking for a point guard? I have a feeling they’d jump at that deal. Picks # 1, 10, 19, 30, 35 makes me pop boners…. 5 rooks is a little much so id probably try to package 30 and 35 to move up and maybe get 4 gus in the top 25 picks.
i like paying 3mm and keeping our two second rounders better than the trade up OKC pulled off any ways!
by les boulez bomber on Jun 24, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's not start sucking each others **** just yet
Here are the last 10 #18 picks. Not exactly a Who’s Who of All-Stars. It’s not exactly like this is a big miss…
#18
Ty Lawson
JaVale McGee
Marco Belinelli
Oleksiy Pecherov
Gerald Green
J. R. Smith
David West
Curtis Borchardt
Jason Collins
Quentin Richardson
Yea
all the more reason to accumulate as many 1st round picks as possible… so you might snag the occasional Starting quality (or even an occasional All-Star) player…. Like the following guys drafted AFTER 18 in previous drafts:
19th pick:
Jeff Teague
J.J. Hickson
20th pick:
Jameer Nelson
Brendan Haywood
21st Pick:
Darren Collison
Rajon Rondo
Nate Robinson
Boris Diaw
23rd Pick:
Travis Outlaw
Tayshaun Prince
24th Pick:
Rudy Fernandez
Andrei Kirilenko
Rodrigue Beaubois
Shannon Brown
Gerald Wallace
26th Pick:
Aaron Brooks
Jason Maxiell
Kevin Martin
John Salmons
etc…etc….etc….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I’m not saying don’t get first round picks, just keep expectations in check. For every semi-decent guy, there’s at least 5 busts. They will be more moves, and the Wizards may still make one. I’m reserving judgment and not getting too upset one one move of low importance.
But that's exactly the attitude that annoys me
(Not from you, per se, so don’t worry).
I’m tired of us slogging off realistic, small moves to improve the team because they’re of “low importance.” You can have that view. I just worry EG does too.
Yeah
One time we let DeJuan Blair slip past us….Ok – perhaps that was a mistake…
Then Gee slips out of our fingers, and the Spurs grab him…. oops
Then we hear that Miami let the #18 pick go for peanuts (no peep from the wizards) – well, maybe we made an offer? and maybe not…
I just keep getting the feeling that the Wizards are a step slow on all these deals…
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I have a feeling this will be one of those ''mistakes'' and in the end we will only have #30 and #35.
It seems EG is just not swift enough to be a good GM.
by rayallenisaballer on Jun 23, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Give the way-over-the-top EG bashing a rest
You assume that there was no peep from the Wizards but you don’t know. And based on recent comments from Grunfeld and Leonsis, that seems unlikely since the Heat have long been trying to move the pick and the Wiz have been trying to acquire picks.
Then you cite Alonzo Gee as some great loss on Grunfeld’s part.
And you fail to take into account that Grunfeld would have sold the 2nd round draft pick regardless to balance Abe’s books (was intending to pay the lux tax). So that’s on Abe, not Ernie.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 23, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What has Ernie done to earn your trust?
Besides the Butler deal? Bad deals, then worse deals….
Actually....
I think Grunfeld has done quite well if you look at all of his moves with the Wizards. I don’t blame him for things like injuries, bizarre gun episodes or Caron Butler’s mental implosion. Abe wanted to keep the big 3 together for one last run. Grunfeld put together a heck of a roster around the big 3 and Grunfeld’s track record over 20 years as a GM is very very solid
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
He put together a terrible roster
It was always sub par players surrounding the “big three.” How about the Etan Thomas contract? The Darius Songolia? DaJuan Blair v. Oberto? Daniels? Last years number 5 pick deal?
Huh?
Haywood, Blatche, Miller, Foye with the big 3 is a pretty solid top 7.
Songaila was very good fit in Eddie Jordan’s offense, but used poorly by Jordan at 5 and AD was a very good 6th man back up PG until he wore down.
The Etan Thomas contract is one of the few mistakes Grunfeld has made. You don’t make a very good case against Grunfeld.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
D-Song was very overpaid
As was Daniels. Sure, they may have been decent players but in a salary cap league, you can’t afford to spend that coin on role players. Foye/Miller for the number five pick was a terrible role of the dice. Furthermore, if he wanted to go all-in, he could’ve gotten a better player for that pick. And that was just one year? How bout the previous years?
Maybe
you can argue that Songaila was overpaid. I’ll buy that, but $5M per for a very good veteran PG is not overpaying, please check what backup PGs make in the NBA.
Foye/Miller did not work out, but you are ignoring the fact that it also brought FLEXIBILITY, which is also why the Wizards have cap space right now. Was it worse than taking Rubio? I don’t think so.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He did
and it was his one glaring mistake.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And this is what annoys me
How many times do you need to hear Ted Leonsis say that this is precisely the way he wants to build his team before you realize that Ernie Grunfeld isn’t the one setting the overall strategy?
I think it's unreasonable
to act like everything is the same under Leonsis. Was there ever any indication of Abe Pollin having any vision for this franchise except for being loyal to the people he liked? I think it’s also unreasonable to get mad about a minor trade EG didn’t make, at least until we see how draft night shakes out.
That said, I agree in wanting Grunfeld to be more aggressive about these smaller moves, but I simply cannot imagine that the topic of trading the 30 for Cook and 18th was not seriously weighed. I’ve read a number of things to suggest they’re looking for a late lottery pick, though.
Whatever the case, the fucking draft is tomorrow! This is a big, exciting, happy day for us, remember? Remember???
That's what all the Wall threads are for
Whatever the case, the fucking draft is tomorrow! This is a big, exciting, happy day for us, remember? Remember???
These "minor trades" and "smaller moves"
If you think the Wizards are going to champions because of no-brainer fall-into-your-lap decisions like winning the John Wall lottery or signing a big name FA then that is unrealistic and overly simplistic. It is these type of improvements at the margins that allow a team to fill out a championship roster. Look at the Lakers and Celtics. Where are the Lakers if they didn’t have the savvy to draft Kobe and Bynum, or to deal for Gasol? Where are the Celtics without a late-1st Rondo and an early 2nd Big Baby?
If all it took was waiting for your lottery number to come up and throwing tons of money at the star FA, then it would be so easy that teams would not even need GMs in the first place.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
isn’t Eric Maynor the player the Thunder got for FREE (conditional 2nd round pick) from the Jazz last year in a BOYD-style trade?
Now they’re packaging him to get the #10 pick? Brilliant.
ANOTHER reason to have as many 1st round picks as possible…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
well, that would be a pretty good deal for the Pacers in my opinion
seems like OKCity could get more for Maynor, the #18 and the #21
by John Park Williams on Jun 23, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Maynor was picked #20 in the 2010 draft… has not done much in his Rookie season; certainly not enough to warrant the #10 pick in this year’s draft….
The deal is this :
Maynor + #18 #21 for the #10 pick…. Seems like a good deal to me, from both sides.
OKC has 5 draft picks (three first rounders, #18 they just got from Miami, #21 and #26, plus 2 second rounders) – they really don’t need 5 new rookies… ESPECIALLY since they already have 12 players under contract … they only have 3 roster spots left and 5 picks… So they turn a player and 2 picks into the #10…
OKC will probably still have to get rid of a pick or two – or draft a couple of Euro’s and stash them…
The Pacers desperately need a PG – and have been shopping that #10 pick to try to get one… They tried to get Derrick Collison, but NO didn’t bite. So they got Maynor instead.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
How could this happen?
The Maynor deal was a “minor trade”. OKC can’t get a 10th pick in a loaded draft from a “minor trade.”
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It drives me nuts
How well OKC runs their team. Ted’s flat out said that’s what we’re going to do I’m just ready to see it.
you don't think the Warriors would trade Biedrins + #6 to Thunder...
for Maynor, two #1’s, and expiring contract of Collison?
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Big Ern must really want someone at 35..?
by Jheiser3 on Jun 23, 2010 8:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
WOW. thats an incredible deal for the OKCITY
by John Park Williams on Jun 23, 2010 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
Warriors pick
If you want to get crazy, you can take on Monta Ellis for #6. need anymore overpiad quasi PG/SGs?
i keep hearing people posting about Monta Ellis
the Warriors just turned down Mayo/Thabeet for Ellis. Why would they suddenly trade Ellis+#6 for nothing?
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Wallace needs to be fired. Can we deal with Memphis? I would love Mayo.
What is wrong with this guy???
So now we see EG wasting his time trying to get rudy fernandez for nick young while he could be trying to get some more 1. round picks.
by rayallenisaballer on Jun 23, 2010 10:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yikes, no way
I’d rather take my chances with Gil than trade one $16 mil contract for another…rather that’s an in-season deal, after we see if Gil is working out at the 2, than getting rid of him now. I guess I would think about it if we were to get picks out of it, but with Gil’s injury history, and his longer-term contract, I don’t see why Orlando would think anything other than a straight-up trade would be fair.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 23, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
Why would you want Gilbert and his contract more than Vince and his? We’d be getting out from under more than 50M, depending on what’s guaranteed to Vince after next season.
Hoopshype says 2011-12 is a team option
so the Wizards would save around 63 million (Gil 4 yrs 80 mill – Carter 1 yr 17 mill). That said I cannot imagine Orlando making that trade.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/netsblog/item_xcd8lV04JQV36lFGm0HZPN
So 21M, with a gift of a huge unguanranteed portion in the second year. That also turns him into a great trade chip.
I don’t see the incentive for Orlando in a 1 for 1 swap. I assume they’d want us to take on more salary.
What I’m saying is that Gil isn’t trash — and if you make this trade (unless there’s more to it), then you’re saying he’s not really a desirable player, and his hefty contract is a huge problem. I think the opposite: I think he’s going to be good next year, as I think he will be, then you don’t pull the trigger on that deal now, because you can do much better. As Prada and others have pointed out, the trade deadline is also an opportunity to collect some value.
But because this trade is being discussed before the draft, then I think it’s gotta involve some picks. In which case it would be interesting.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 24, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Would you sign Gilbert Arenas to a three year 63 million dollar contract?
That is essentially what you are stating when you say that we should not trade Gilbert Arenas’s 4 year 80 million deal for Carter’s expiring 17 million deal.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
3 year 59 million dollar contract
Corrected to account for lj15’s note that Carter is guaranteed 4 million in 2011-12.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course not, because he’s not trash. He’s not Peja, Foster, Okafor, or any of those guys with horrible contracts that no one wants. Granted, Gil’s contract is bad, but he’s also a very desirable player (in my mind, he will show it in a few months), so wait to get a good player for him in return.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 24, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Value
He’s not trash. He’s also not worth 80M over 4 years. If the franchise has a chance to get his contract off their books for a starter, a future trade chip and 21M they absolutely have to pull the trigger.
Otis Smith knows Arenas. This is a personal deal, not personnel.
It's that trade chip that pushes this rumor to the trash pile to me
We essentially would tread water for one year and then be able to trade VC to a team desperate for salary relief who want to trade for him then cut him. Not to mention that we’d then be free of Gil’s contract. This has to be fantasy.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 24, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And Michael Lee pops the bubble
‘Was told Wiz & ORL talked about Arenas-Carter swap, but conversation didn’t get far. One prominent player agent said, “Not going to happen.”’
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 24, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe ORL would ever do that
Agree Gil isn’t trash but if you can get out of that contract you do it. It allows us to walk away clean from the whole thing and gives us more freedom going on.
by BayAreaBullet on Jun 24, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
they wouldn't
Otis could never sell the cost conscious Magic on taking Gilbert while giving up Vince’s contract. Even though, I like the basketball side for them if they could find a home for Jameer Nelson.
If Arenas returns to his 06-07 form, yes I do.
how quickly we forget.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
or maybe if there’s some kind of three-way deal going on, where we get picks…
by Tbonebullets on Jun 23, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be amazing
Absolutely amazing.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 23, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
OKC offers #32, DC offers #35. OKC is in another conference, DC is in Miami’s own division. Where’s the mystery?
You guys really think that Grunfeld was too SLOW? That he slacked off and the deal went down without him noticing? I’m no Grunfeld fan, but seriously…we’ve been talking about this deal for days. The Wiz have been talking about getting more picks for days. Being too SLOW…well that defies logic. If you think that the reason OKC got the deal and not us is because of Grunfeld then you are kind of blinded by your own disgust. He may not be the best GM in the league, but he’s not a child. He’s not in a coma. He’s not a vegetable.
by MR on Jun 23, 2010 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
"Like" button
couldn’t have said this any better
by geechy_suede on Jun 24, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Bravo
Enough with the silly EG bashing.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I used to think like this
but then there came a time when Ernie showed himself to be short-sighted and unoriginal, year after year. He’s done little to improve this team in the last 3-4 years. He’s an okay GM, but not a great nor even a good one.
Getting buckets since 2003.
by Icantfeelmyface on Jun 24, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
it's not about thinking a certain way
It’s understanding that OKC could offer a better deal than the Wizards.
Also, as a group perhaps we should wait till the end of draft day before we assess Grunfeld’s performance.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 24, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't find one NBA personnel man...
…who would say that Grunfeld’s moves last summer didn’t make the team better. It didn’t work out, but Grunfeld certainly improved the roster and put together a deep team WITH roster flexibility.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
OKC's offer was better, but it's still an annoying reminder of ernie's moves in the last few years
the point many are trying to make is trades are being made and it often involves the same teams(okc, milwaukee). this is not an accident … teams that want to make trades find a way to make trade…..lots of people on this board like to say lets wait and see, but we ALWAYS say that …. since the caron trade, ernie has made very few moves and they’ve ranged from so-so to disasterous(foye/miller for the 5th pick) … but i’ll remain hopeful especially with a potential franchise maker like wall coming in
by wizfan2247 on Jun 24, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
very few moves
You mean besides trading Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Antawn Jamison, Deshawn Stevenson,and Drew Gooden?
let me restate that, few creative moves to maximize team's return
in my original post, i said “since the caron trade”, i don’t count any of the trades made last year since he was in blow it up mode because he had no choice … and even, in those deals, he got nothing in return but cap space … the ernie supporters will say “maybe that’s the best he could get” … maybe, that’s true but as with every move in the past few years, none of his deals left u feeling good
I think the issue here
Is that Ernie tends to let the small things slip by. I suppose one could say they’re just small things, but I think they add up. And while maybe he got beat to the punch in this case (and maybe he has something good up his sleeve), he’s also been beaten to the punch a lot. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that happens (nor do I think it’s a coincidence OKC is always on top of these kinds of trades. If the Wiz come forward with 35 instead of 32 three days ago, I don’t think Miami holds out and says “no, we want 32 instead.”).
So no, he’s not incompetent or lazy, but he’s also not as vigilant as he could be.
by Mike Prada on Jun 24, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but
How is this an example of the Grunfeld getting beaten to the punch?
Given what the Heat were looking for, OKC could offer a better deal. Grunfeld could have offered something similar, using the 30th or the 35th pick, but the trade still would’ve been made with OKC.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 24, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
and yes
Miami would hold out even if Grunfeld made an offer three days ago, unless they’re stupid. Why jump at the first good offer received? Much better to see what everyone else is willing to offer.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 24, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
This isn’t a “creative” trade. Miami wanted to dump salary and dump their 1st round pick. With the exception of NJ at 31 nobody could offer Miami a better deal. I suppose you could take Beasley (we don’t know if that was on the table) or a future pick (which I’m opposed to). But this is a pretty straight up transaction.
I’m not looking for ways to defend EG, but I just can’t see how this deal going OKC’s way and not ours in any way indicates the relative merits of their GM or ours.
I disagree entirely with this
This isn’t a "creative" trade. Miami wanted to dump salary and dump their 1st round pick. With the exception of NJ at 31 nobody could offer Miami a better deal.
The Wizards could have done a couple things to trump that offer:
1. Take Beasley (I would have said no, but it’s a way to trump it).
2. Take both Cook and James Jones, who has a partially-guaranteed contract next year. This would have allowed Miami to clear even more salary.
3. Throw in a conditional pick in 2011 (second round).
4. Throw in one of the Euros we have rights to
5. Take on Mario Chalmers along with Cook, if possible. Again, allows for more salary to be cleared.
And more generally, I agree that Miami maybe doesn’t bite, but if you’re constantly bugging them about your offer, they’re more likely to remember instead of going with OKC’s instead.
Can you name one deal.....
….that ernie has made which is similar to the okc/miami trade … okc has made several of these types of trades … the only trades ernie has made since the caron trade has been pure salary dumps that returned almost no assets other than a late first round pick or some minor deals that made no positive impact.
how could i forget
he’s also done wonders trading draft picks(the 5th pick for 2 players who may only be with the team for one years and a 2nd round pick(that could have been blair) for cash)
Like I said (and repeated)
I’m no EG fan. I’m not going to sit here and defend him.
But when you’re at the swap meet and you have $20 to spend and someone with $21 walks away with the toy you wanted, its hard to get too worked up about it.
I’m just not going to blame him because OKC had a better trade chip and we declined to overpay for the #18 pick.
problem with that thinking
is that OKC has been in rebuilding mode since they were in Seattle, 07. In that same span Ernie was tasked with taking a decent playoff team and making it into a EC contender. Completely different jobs that require completely different trades. It was only after Abe’s passing and the Gunner-room incident that Ernie was tasked with tearing it down and building it back up.
by Jheiser3 on Jun 24, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
This thread is making my head hurt with all the ill-informed criticism.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for being ill-informed
and thank you for taking the time to come down from your intellectual heights to enlighten us rubes.
by morethesamewiz on Jun 24, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
a little perspective
A lot of us feel harshly towards EG because of what we perceive as a pattern. Last year at the draft, the past two years at the trade deadline, we’ve heard a lot of noise from the front office that something big was coming. Then either nothing happens, or something relatively unimpressive happens.
It’s true that we don’t know from this one instance whether EG snoozed on this one. It’s true that many individual trades don’t seem so terrible. But the impression is that EG isn’t particularly good at the BOYD-style trades that we’re hoping for (and Leonsis has called for). He gets very little leeway from us because of moves like ignoring Gee and passing on Blair. Moreso, there was every indication that we didn’t need to include Haywood in that trade with Dallas (Mark Cuban came out and said so after-the-fact). And we could have sent BH to Portland or elsewhere for a pick or a prospect. Instead we heard that he was making pretty ludicrous demands of Portland, they passed, and then he got a far-less-impressive deal from Dallas.
3 years of gathering on this site and watching him be just a little disappointing has left me a lot less willing to give the front office the benefit of the doubt.
excellent take...
But let’s go over some of this….
What noise came out of the front office at the trade deadline or draft? Abe (not EG) was tied to the Big 3 and so any moves would have been smaller.
We do know that EG didn’t snooze on this one as Michael Lee reported as much in his most recent Insider update.
It’s not fair to complain about not using BOYD when Abe was building towards a championship around the Big 3. BOYD is for team’s rebuilding, so it’s unrealistic to expect that the Wiz would have employed this strategy before. Will they employ it tonight? Let’s see before we start judging….
Complaints about including Haywood are also out of line since no one mentions the trade exceptions we got back and that it got McGee playing time and the Wizards in position to take John Wall. Since Camby was traded for cash, there is no evidence that there was a better market for Haywood than trade exceptions.
I continue to maintain that the anger towards Grunfeld is misplaced. If Alonzo Gee or even Dejuan Blair is the evidence, there isn’t much of an argument.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Couple clarifications
-Yes, BOYD is the new plan. No one is upset that we weren’t practicing that strategy at this time last year or at the trade deadline. We are, however, on edge as to whether EG is a general manager who can make those trades nearly as effectively as the Portland, Houston, and OKC GMs.
-The complaint with Haywood isn’t that we should have kept him. The complaint is that he was a much more valuable trade chit, and could have been packaged separately. I believe both Boston and Portland were actively mentioned as prospective trade partners. We asked Portland for both Fernandez and Batum. A more reasonable offer could’ve netted us Fernandez, quite possibly. And that would still have yielded PT for McGee and put us in position for Wall.
That’s exactly what Prada means (I think) about Grunfeld being bad at “the small stuff.” He moved 4 of our starters, effectively cleaning house. That’s big. He could’ve squeezed another prospect or pick out of it, though, and that would be invaluable to us in the moment.
Same thing with Blair. The “it saves money, and was a directive from above” argument doesn’t hold a ton of weight with most of us, because the team then went out and spent substantially more on Oberto in order to have him fill exactly the same role. If EG isn’t able to talk ownership into saving money by picking a big body with potential in the second round over the hollowed-out shell of a veteran role player, then that’s a problem with him as a GM.
Again, none of this indicates that EG is a failure. But it sets up a pattern that leads me to offer him a lot less leeway. If we pull off a great trade 5 hours from now with NO for the #10 pick, that’ll be excellent. But my hunch is that EG tries to “work his magic” and comes up short, while several other GMs pull off more-impressive/more-creative deals. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt, because every 6 months or so, I find myself on this board hearing an awful lot of “just wait, Ernie is going to pull off a spectacular move.”
And yet he kept Mike Miller
who was a very valuable trade piece. And he let Houston rob NY blind instead of getting in the fray due for personal reasons. We had a lot more cap relief to offer NY than Houston did.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 24, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Please!
From Yahoo! Buzz. Doesn’t this sound like we could do this? Take on a bad contract, and the #11 for the #30 and cash? Thoughts? Posey’s contract is pretty brutal.
Hornets could trade out of lottery
The New Orleans Hornets’ front office hadn’t wanted to trade its No. 11 pick, but it appears the financial realities of the cash-strapped franchise are making it more likely the team will trade out of the lottery, league sources said late Wednesday.
The Hornets could make a team with cap space take one of their unwanted contracts – perhaps James Posey or even Julian Wright – as a condition for moving into the 11th spot. The Hornets could move later into the first round, where the guaranteed contracts for rookies descend with every spot until the 30th pick. Or, perhaps the Hornets could move completely out of the first round and pick up one or two second-round picks.
The Hornets were believed to be hoping Baylor’s Ekpe Udoh would drop down, but that appears unlikely. New Orleans had strong interest with Kansas’ Xavier Henry and Nevada’s Luke Babbitt, too.
by oatmealeater on Jun 24, 2010 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
well
if we can possibly get the number 11 pick….I say we try to go for Paul George….We could also try and reunite J-Wall and Patterson……Damion James wouldn’t hurt either
by Kevon Robinson on Jun 24, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Do I dare dream?
that the Wizards do something right?
DX
JG @ DX reporting the price for Boston’s pick is not cash, its a future first round pick.
For all the talk of this being an awesome draft A LOT of respected people and teams are bailing on it hard.
Most teams that are bailing
are trying to free up cap space for free agents (Miami) or are bleeding money (New Orleans) but the Celtics don’t want their 19th pick because they’re trying to compete one more time and don’t feel anyone at 19 can help with that. But I also heard talk of the Celtics dangling Perkins to get in the lottery so I’m not quite sure what they’re up to.
NO FUTURE PICKS
I don’t want us including any future picks to trade up this year unless the future picks are 2nd rounders or the pick this year is top 5.
#6 plus Ellis or Biedrins
Looks like Golden State might be willing to move the #6 if a team is willing to accept the last four years of Ellis’s deal at $11 million per. (I wonder if they would also do it if the team accepted the last four years of Biedrins’ deal at $9 million per.) Golden State’s owner is looking to sell, so wants to cut salary.
Would you guys be in favor of such a move? I would, especially for Biedrins.
I would be in favor of dealing for either one; my guess though is that Biedrins is more of a possibility
where do you hear GState is willing to part with #6?
Seems like GS could find a take for Biedrins or Ellis without having to give up a mid-lottery pick. Even if they were, what could the Wiz offer that the Thunder, TWolves or Grizzlies couldnt?
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
espn.com and draftexpress
It would be a straight salary dump to raise the value of the franchise for sale. It makes business sense for them, but certainly not basketball sense.
Ellis has always been a problem player, even though he can score — I can see why they’d want to get rid of him. Plus, he can’t guard the two position, where he plays, because he’s a tweener — we would also have this problem with him. Biedrins also has a big contract, so I can see them getting rid of him — but he’s decent and really young, so I don’t see them trading a pick in order to get rid of him. It would have to be Ellis.
the Warriors just turned down Mayo/Thabeet for Ellis in February
why would they suddenly give the #6 away just to get rid of Ellis?
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
it ain't february anymore
and they are much closer to selling the team. The need to cut costs has risen considerably.
but the GM Larry Riley won't still be there when Chris Cohan sells the team
why would he do them any favors?
From what I’ve read, the Warriors have multiple offers from Silicon Valley-types that will shatter all previous NBA sales.
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
furthermore, if Ellis/Biedrins and the #6 really were on the table, don't you think other teams have more to offer?
say, the Bulls trade Deng/JamesJohnson/#16 for Ellis + #6?
or the Thunder trade #18, #21, #28 and Nick Collison for Biedrins + #6?
or the Grizzlies trade Randolph + 3 first round pick for Ellis/#6?
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that deal is scary good for the bulls
I have always thought Deng sucked, even going back to his days at Duke. He plays his best when his team is losing, and disappears whenever his team is winning. Reminds me a lot of Keith Van Horn.
Cutting Deng loose and moving up in the draft? Win win for the Bulls
by John Park Williams on Jun 24, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
another black-white player analogy...
I love it…. Deng, the Sudanese Van Horn… Van Horn, the Mormon Deng….
For those who missed it, the earlier analogy was that Sacto should take Greg Monroe because he is a good passing center like Vlade Divacs.
Guys, this draft is bringing out some great stuff. Keep it UP.
Monroe could easily be another Vlade
not just his passing but his handle with the ball is amazing
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Wow you guys almost burned this thread down
over the 18th pick. Honestly I have my sights set on bigger things like maybe the pacers pick. Honestly we are still waiting on our other late-mid 1st round selections Nick Young and Javale Mcgee to " develop ".
McGee is SUPPOSED to
be still developing. In fact, as big men typically develop, McGee is still likely a few years away from peaking.
Nick Young, OTOH, needs to make it happen this year or he’ll be out of the league pretty quick.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well this is a community that is ready to lynch a guy over an ex-D Leaguer who played a total of 182 NBA minutes.
There is some tension around here.
by MR on Jun 24, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please
Not ready to lynch him over Gee, but over a number of things, over a long period of time.
The fact is that the Wizards are rebuilding – yet we hear of other teams moving up in the draft, moving INTO the draft, getting additional picks, and using their cap space to get NEAR LOTTERY picks….
What are the Wizards doing?
Getting laughed at by offering Nick Young for Fernandez and offering Arenas for Carter…..
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I thought the point of the plan was to get ADDITIONAL picks
Trading #35 for #18 doesn’t do that. I’m not sure that having the #35 pick in this draft isn’t better than the #18. Ernie was quoted in the Examiner today saying that guys between 15 and 35 are fairly similar. If he believes that, then he was right to pass on the trade, and should be focusing on adding a pick.
Will reserve judgment until tonight. Then I’ll fire up the torches with the rest of you.
Exactly. I want my no 30, no. 35, and any other pick I can get. But if I have to take on weight like cook, I want the pick outright, not switch picks for no. 18. Now, if we’re going to talk about switching 30 or 25 for no. 11, then I’ll listen. I’ll take on a lot of garbage in exchange for no. 11.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 24, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
We have 6 players under contract and a ton of cap room
How much “weight” is cook really adding?
Look, the main point is, we want to add picks not switch picks. But with respect to weight, that salary space is really valuable and why fill it up with junk if you can get better junk later. I just wouldn’t have agreed to the deal considering future possibilities. But the MAIN POINT is we don’t want to switch picks at this stage of the game.
by Tbonebullets on Jun 24, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Leonsis may fire up the torches too
And that’s who EG should care about. Ted has been perfectly clear on what he expects us to get done tonight.
And with Pritchard available...
Grunfeld needs to get this summer right.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jun 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Talk about bizarre
I think at least 20 teams in the league would trade their GM for Pritchard, including Washington. Guess Allen just can’t handle his personality. But his love of the draft and thinking creatively seems like a perfect complement to Ted.
The sound and fury, strum und drang etc etc
are amazing here…. yet nothing has happened! Shoes will be dropping right and left soon enough.
sturm und drang
is the perfect way to put it
"Guess you guys aren't ready for that yet... but trust me, you're gonna love it." ~Marty McFly
At least they're trying to move Nick Young
Even if the offer was ridiculous. I know that a lot of people on here like Nick, but I think he needs to go. The team needs to take a new direction from a personality perspective, and I just don’t think they guy will ever get it. While talented, he’s selfish offensively and he doesn’t take the game seriously. We don’t need that around guys like McGee, Wall and whatever other rookies we bring. Or Blatche for that matter. It’s a new day in Washington, and I think he needs to go one way or the other this offseason.
Careful, now
Mae will cut you for saying stuff like that….
by imperialme on Jun 24, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Thorpe
Did anyone else see David Thorpe’s article, point 5? Where in the heck is he getting this stuff? (Insider)
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5323351
He's not the only one saying it.
People just need something to write about.
There are a few people saying that Paul for Wall (and maybe Arenas) could be a viable option
Of course, they all take pains to point out that it’s unlikely for several reasons. Just filler.
That is a horrible trade
I swear this is why I can’t stand the silly season. Journalist just start slinging garbage and wait for something to stick.
Is it really that bad a trade?
It gets Arenas of our hands and we probably sign Lebron or one of the other marquee free agents.
Its horrible because it is completely implausible
The Hornets are trying to cut salary not add it. Why would they take Arenas’s contract? Not even John Wall and a future first rounder would be enough to take that contract on.
rumors going around
that we will sign Josh Childress
yea it would
here is the link
From Woj
It’s extremely unlikely that New Orleans trades that 11th pick unless it can attach the contract of a player like Mo Peterson in the deal.
This is our chance. We don’t even need to take on Peja’s huge contract, we can take on one half as big. Get it done Ernie!
question
Why wouldn’t teams take 1 year of Mo Pete’s deal for that pick? This just doesn’t quite jibe with other deals. Mo Pete gets us 11? And its not done? Not buying it.
First
NO only does the deal with a team that can absorb Mo Pete’s contract without sending anything back. That limits the teams.
I’d be willing to do the deal for a lottery protected pick next year, a top 10 the year after, a top five, and then they get the first.
Fingers crossed for Henry
In most drafts I think he is easily a lottery talent. It would be sweet to have the #1 PG and SG prospect in that freshmen class.
by forthepeople on Jun 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Wishlist if we get #11
1. Paul George
2. Patrick Patterson
3. Xavier Henry
*I was dreaming of reuniting Wall and Bledsoe but probably won’t happen.
by Kevon Robinson on Jun 24, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
What could Ernie possibly be thinking with all of these moves going on. There are like a billion opportunities and all of the rumors about the Wizards seem like he has no real plan. If we’re going to follow Ted’s plan then we should not even discuss a trade unless it involves getting draft picks.
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jun 24, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
wait
all of the rumors about the Wizards seem like he has no real plan.
This is because we only get rumors and not transcripts of every call or conversation. Until the process ends there’s no way to know.
17, Heinrich to Wiz
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/news/story?id=5324240
It wasn’t immediately clear what Washington would send to Chicago in the trade.
You've gotta be kidding me.
UGH. Heinrich at $9M+ for 3 years. I will criticize Grunfeld for that one.
by JonathanJoseph on Jun 24, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like it
3 years of Hinrich at 9 million for the 17th pick? Kirk definitely overlaps with Gil and Wall. Thats a lot to pay for a backup.
by forthepeople on Jun 24, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry 2 years
I was honestly hoping for a higher pick. 17 seems just out of the range of grabbing a sleeper.
by forthepeople on Jun 24, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess this means no Shaun Livingston then?
by ThePGPhenomenon on Jun 24, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So let me get this straight
The Thunder move the 32nd pick for the 18th by taking on 2.1 million over one year. The Wizards take on an average (i.e. role player) for 17 million over two years for the 17th overall? Fire EG.
by zeke5123 on Jun 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Give me Peja's monster contract and 11 any day.
Can we start a mass emailing campaign to Ted to reject this trade?
by forthepeople on Jun 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
different kind of trade
This isn’t quite a BOYD trade, because I don’t think Grunfeld does this unless he really wants Hinrich on this team. Clearly he’s meant what he’s said all along that he wants to surround Wall and the other young players with veteran talent. Not sure what I think of this trade myself.
I think the other part of this is the final year of Hinrich’s contract, 2011, is a year where there might be a long lockout. In that way, 2 year contracts are more attractive than they would be otherwise.
by Johnnie Futbol on Jun 24, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
what's so awful about this trade?
We can get a number of solid contributors with this pick, and although Hinrich has an iffy contract, he’s not a scrub and can provide some decent point guard minutes in relief of Wall. It’s not like we don’t have the money for a $9 mil. contract, anyway.
"Guess you guys aren't ready for that yet... but trust me, you're gonna love it." ~Marty McFly
can we
jump start America thought he collective power of people bitching and moaning? Honestly if there was someway to harness the energy of whining and complaining we’d be right back on top again.
The irony of
Someone bitching and moaning about bitching and moaning.
by zeke5123 on Jun 24, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i heart irony
but i’m not calling for anyone to lose their job over a trade or otherwise throwing up on my keyboard in disgust over it.
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