Trading With the Pacers to Get Assets
I just wrote a post on a possible three way trade, though I don't know if a sign and trade can work three way, and couldn't find out by googling it (I admit, I didn't really try to find out, I spent like 3 minutes on it). But I keep coming up with trade ideas because I went to ESPN site and saw something like a "Report: Wizards looking to trade Arenas"
I don't have ESPN Insider so I couldn't read the full article, or whatever, but I get the idea.
Anyway;
If we do trade Arenas, there aren't that many places that we could trade with. It's not only hard financially to sell Arenas, but his infamous injuries/suspension causes problems too. That being said, one team that the Wizards can look to is the Pacers. If you look at this, you'll realize that while the Pacers are due for a lot of money this year, they aren't next year, meaning they have a lot of expiring contracts. Seriously, A LOT. They have about 50 million in expiring contracts just by looking at the link.
So while looking at that, I realized we could make a good trade with them. The idea goes like this:
Pacers Receive:
Gilbert Arenas
Wizards Receive:
Mike Dunleavy
Jeff Foster
TJ Ford/Jamaal Tinsley
10th Pick
I realize this hurts our cap space for this summer a lot, and would zero out our chances of signing any big free agents this summer. However, I don't think it really matters because we shouldn't be signing big free agents anyway. The most important thing we get is obviously the 10th pick, and since we're rebuilding, the 10th pick means a lot to us. I said Ford or Tinsley because both players are point guards, there's no point of getting both, but at the same time I'm sure the Pacers are looking to get rid of either one. Ford will probably pick up his player option, which means the Pacer's owe him 8.5 mil for a point guard that was less used as the season went on. Tinsley obviously is just there sucking up 5 mil. If we do get Tinsley, we can just buy out his contract, to you know, make sure him and Wall never talk to each other. 8.5 mil is a lot to give to Ford but he can play back up point guard until come next trade deadline in which we can look to trade away the three expiring we would receive in Foster, Dunleavy, and whichever pg we get.
Which brings me to Dunleavy. I realize he is complete worthless compared to the money he's getting paid. He might not even be that big of an asset since the 10 mil to player value is so bad. Even if we can't trade Dunleavy this coming February, we still need to get him if it means getting that 10th pick. Afterall, I don't think Dunleavy is so bad of a role player averaging 10~15 minutes a game. By the way, I do like Foster. Personally I haven't watched his game but he seems like one of those hustle players. He is also a very good rebounder, and a veteran so I think he can help the progress of Blatche and Mcgee.
So why would the Pacers do this instead of sitting on the contracts one year and trying to rebuild themselves? Well the case for the Pacers right now is that they need cash NOW. Everyone kind of knows that they've been in a pretty bad financial crisis. Apparently, the situation is so serious they're asking the city to help pay off for the operation fees of Conseco Fieldhouse Arena (if you want to know more read this). Also, they don't have a point guard, thus Arenas does fit in with the needs of the Pacers. It's also not like the Pacers would be able to attract free agents come summer of 2011. They might as well save some money by getting rid of over-paid players, and receiving Arenas. And think about it, if they get Arenas, a line up of Arenas/Granger/Murphy/Hibbert could make them relevant once again, and that lineup is much more marketable than the one they had before, thus helping them on the financial issue they have, again.
If the Pacers decline that trade, I think we could try to work this by throwing in additional pieces (like maybe 2nd round pick, 30th pick or something). This trade could really help both sides, and if this does happen I would be pretty excited for the coming draft.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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By the way,
I don’t think that puts us over the cap, and personally I really wish we don’t get murphy. He overlaps with Blatche too much, and that pretty much states all the reasons why he shouldn’t come to d.c.
Do we really need to start a new thread for EVERY trade idea?
Because I got a couple more :-)
by Spanky731 on May 24, 2010 7:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
1. Tinsley was waived by the Pacers in 2009.
2. The Wizards are UNDER the salary cap this Summer, BUT only by $19 Million…. so that is the MAXIMUM they can receive back in salaries without going over the Cap.
3. If the Pacers are looking to SAVE money, a trade with the Wizards involving Arenas ($16.1 Million) would only save them about $3 Million – assuming they take on about $19 Million in salaries – - – - hardly worth the Pacers taking on $80 MILLION in long term salary AND giving up the 10th pick in the Draft.
You could do a straight salary dump trade, WITHOUT Arenas – if you want that 10th pick…. Take on Troy Murphy’s salary + the 10th pick…. Give back the 30th pick (or the 35th pick)… Indiana would immediately save $11 Million….
You could do the same thing with the New Orleans Hornets (who , also are looking to shed salary)…. Take on either Mo Peterson’s contract ($5.8 Million) OR Peja Stojakovic ($13.4 Million) + the 11th pick
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Don't you feel like Gilbert would be a good fit in Indiana though?
Besides, how else are they going to get another star (I know, debatable) to play with Granger?
You may as well get used to the idea…. until Gilbert Arenas plays in a Wizard’s uniform for at least 1/2 a season, he will continue to be untradeable.
GM’s around the League (Including the Pacers’ President of Basketball Operations, Larry Bird) will need to see him putting up 24 points and 7 assists a night – saying all the right things – doing all the right things – being a good teammate – being a good employee – before they will bring him into their locker room…. Until then, he is not perceived as a superstar player, but rather as a locker room “cancer”, with an $80 Million long term albatross of a contract.
Come talk to me at the trade deadline in February 2011 – IF Arenas has behaved himself – and proven that he can live up to that insane contract – THEN , MAYBE, the Wizards would be able to trade him – - – - – but then, if he shows he’s worth the contract, why would they?
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well apparently the wizards are looking to ship away arenas now
and I’m sure there are GM’s around the league that are willing to gamble now
for instance probably 4 or 5 GM’s would guess that arenas could make a strong comeback meaning they could gamble now to get him for lower price than he would be when he does consistently better
so I was just kind of shouting out random ideas…you know just ideas hopefully its the pacers
and another reason why I think they might do it is because they are losing fans, because the Pacers haven’t brought much change to sucking, their seating has been going down and it’s just been depressing, so Bird might actually pull the trigger (maybe)
by Young Wook Lee on May 24, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There has been exactly ONE article
saying the Wizards are looking to trade Arenas…. The Mitchell article…. Every other article out there talking about Arenas trade rumors is quoting THAT article – as if it has substance..
That article is full of “sources close to the situation”, and “unnamed sources”… with NOTHING concrete…
Every indication from the Wizards is that they intend to have Arenas play for them this year. From Flip Saunders saying he is going to call Arenas – to Grunfeld’s numerous statements that if Arenas plays, it will be for the Wizards… NOt only that, but common sense dictates that the Wizards just cannot “buy out” an $80 Million contract….. and they will NOT be able to trade Arenas for “cap relief” (ie: contracts expiring in 1 year, like Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster.)
Think about it… Murphy and Foster’s contracts will be expiring contracts at the February 2011 deadline….. Indiana should be able to get some good young players, picks, or an established starting player….. WITHOUT taking on 5-Years and $80 Million…
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yes...except
it’s not just the salaries the are the problem, how are you going to sell tickets to fans if you were the pacers? especially if you start losing a lot of games, by the second half the season the sales might even hit all time worst with this team (I just know someone is going to get injured on this time, because it happens to the pacers all the time)
oh, and they haven’t had a point guard for awhile, could definitely use one
by Young Wook Lee on May 24, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
How are the Wizards going to sell tickets this year?
They will NOT be a good team – but fans know they’re rebuilding…. You sell tickets to see young and upcoming stars like John Wall…
In the case of Indiana – you rebuild – around the young core of Danny Granger (27), Hibbert (23), Tyler Hansbrough (24) + Their # 10 pick this year…. and whatever assets they can get from trading away their expiring contracts….
You take on Arenas’ 5-year contract (with the remaining $80 Million) you have effectively gambled the next 5 years on Arenas returning to at least All-Star form… and even then, he’s shown in Washington he couldn’t get the team past the first round of the Playoffs (with two other All Stars)… How are the Pacers supposed to get further than the Wizards with an older Arenas and NO Antawn Jamison…..
NO – Indiana may want to trade with the Wizards but I doubt they will want to take on long-term salary. I could see the Pacers (or New Orleans, or a number of other teams that have Luxury Tax issues) – wanting to trade with Washington to dump salaries….. So the Wizards might pick up a short (2-year or less) bad contract like Peja Stojakovic or Mike Dunleavy … along with a Draft pick (to sweeten the deal)….
I believe that is Washington’s strategy this Summer… A number of times, Flip Saunders has said they may want to “move into the late Lottery”…. Ted Leonsis has said he wants more first round picks. Even Ernie Grunfeld (normally tight lipped) has said they may do some dealing in the draft….. (NOT with the #1 pick)….
I think the Wizards will go to some of the teams in the late lottery (10-14) with the idea of taking one of their bad contracts as long as they also give us a first round pick…
Philly is apparently willing to give up the #2 pick if someone takes Elton Brand…. It’s a valid way to get additional draft picks…
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Right, I just meant it seems like eventually it will be a good fit.
Of course assuming all of this is true (him getting back to form and being a good influence), we’d have to get something of value in return.
i think a gil to indiana scenario makes some sense
already posted a gil+blatche → murphy, dunleavy + 10th pick idea
then you could also take on stojakovic or kirilenko and get the 11th or 9th pick to go with the 10th pick.
you would completely start over, clear all your cap space after a year and acquire two more lottery picks in the process.
personally, i’m not adamant about dumping gil. i think he’ll be good this year. but i could see how ted would want to start over. and indiana would definitely have to consider that trade.
by DarrellWalkerFan on May 25, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Why not work a three way trade between all the parties?
Hornets receive
Mike Dunleavy
Wizards 2nd round pick
Rights to VV.
Pacers receive
Darius Songaila
Al Thornton
Wizards receive
Peja Stojakovic
Jeff Foster
Hornets 1st rounder
Pacers 1st rounder
Under this scenario (using last years numbers)
The Hornets shave 8.1 million
The Pacers shave 9.3
The Wizards take on 17.4 million.
Or
The Hornets receive
Troy Murphy
Al Thornton
The Pacers receive
Mo Pete
Darius Songalia
Hornets 2nd
Wizards 2nd
Cash from Wizard
The Wizards receive
Peja
Jeff Foster
Both first rounders
Hornets shave 10.7
Pacers shave 6.7 million, while getting 1.5 million in cash bringing up their savings to 8.2 million.
The Wizards still take on 17.4 million in cash.
Why make it harder than it needs to be?
Wiz take on Jeff Foster’s contract – and Indiana throws in their First Rounder (Indiana saves $6 Mil)
Wiz take on Stojakovic’s contract – and NO throws in their First Rounder (NO saves $13 Mil)
Wiz take on $19 Million (both contracts expiring after the 2010-11 season) and get 2 First Round picks.
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two separate deals...nets the same effect
Without throwing a money-wrench into 3-team negotiations….
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i really wish we take on jeff foster one
but its highly unlikely they’d give us their first just to save 6 mil, i guess if we gave them 30 and 35 maybe but i really wish we do get one
and we probably can get a deal with NO done i think
by Young Wook Lee on May 26, 2010 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus any potential savings from avoiding the tax
That 6 could turn into 12 pretty easily.
Because a mid round lottery pick isn't worth 6 million in savings.
Nor is it worth 13 million in savings. That is overpaying.
I think that 8-9 million rage is perfect. If we could get the Pacers to give up their pick for just 6 million, I would be ecstatic. Because then, we could get the Hornets pick (a later pick mind you) also for 6 million.
I like my first idea. The Hornets pick one slot later, so they don’t get quite as much cap relief (one million). However, they get compensated for that with a 2nd round pick, and a Euro. That is probably worth about the one million in change, plus lower draft slot.
But in my trade
Indiana DOES save 8-9 Million
They save Foster’s ($6.6 Million) salary AND the salary of the #11 pick ($1.78 Million)… That’s $8.4 Million…
And remember – Indiana is dangerously close to the projected Luxury Tax threshold of $68 Million… BUT they only have 12 players under contract…. (CBA requires each team to field a roster of at least 13 players under contract)…..
They go over the Tax line, and that $8.4 Million becomes $16.8 Million in the snap of a finger.
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New Orleans is in a much worse position than Indiana
They have 10 players under contract – and if they make the qualifying offer to Aaron Gray, they will be at $71.8 Million for 11 players….
Add in $1.77 for the #11 pick and they STILL are one roster slot short… assuming they can find a D-League Rookie at a minimum salary of $473,604 – that puts them approximately $6 Million OVER the projected Luxury Tax line….
Just taking Mo Pete ($6.2 Million) off their hands doesn’t help them – they would STILL have to add a minimum contract player to get back to 13 roster slots…. which would put them back over the Luxury Tax line.
THAT’s why I suggested taking Peja Stojakovic ($14 Million) + the #11 pick off their hands… It saves them approx $20 Million ($14 Mil + Luxury Tax of $6 Mil)
If you think that taking on $14 Million for the # 11 pick is too much salary – perhaps we could also ask for their 2012 First Round pick….
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Well, using the logic that Indiana does save 8-9 million
Simply as a result of not using their first round pick is true for my idea as well. In my idea, Indy saves 10-11 million using that accounting gimmick. So my trade idea has them still saving more.
For New Orleans, shaving off 8.1 million (plus the first round pick’s salary) enables them to avoid the tax and get to the roster minimum.
You are still right in that my trade idea is more convoluted and requires two other teams to agree to this trade, but I feel like my first trade proposal is not a bad one. I think it works for every team.
I’ be less interested in the Hornets 2012 pick – I want youngsters now so that we can compete later.
well its not a bad idea to
get an extra pick, especially if we won’t be contending by 2012, which I highly doubt we’ll be a championship contender unless we hit big on free agency, and acquring an expring contract wouldnt hurt our chances in the free agency anyway, so i dont see why not
by Young Wook Lee on May 27, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
but
there are lots of ways indiana could get under the lux tax other than trading their lottery pick.
they won’t trade their lottery pick to shed a $6 million contract. the fans would revolt, and for good reason, because it would be bad move!
by DarrellWalkerFan on May 27, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
We shed our lottery pick to get rid of Etan Thomas and Darius Songaila
We sent the #5 to Minnesota so we could get rid of Thomas ($7.3 Million) & Songaila ($4.5 Million + $4.8 Million) and Pecherov ($1.5 Million)…. and took back expiring contracts (Miller $9.7M & Foye $3.5M)
So, if the Wizards don;t retain Foye or Miller – we would have given up the #5 pick to get out from paying Songaila’s $4.8 Million 2010-2011 salary…..
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It's all over the place on this site and elsewhere
Well, “revolt” isn’t the right word, but people were pissed and still are.
been a quiet revolt....
I hardly knew it existed…..
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I'm ok with it
Dunleavy’s actually a decent player when he’s healthy. Worst case scenario, we pay him 10 million dollar to sit on the bench and provide a good influence in the locker room as opposed to paying Gil 20 to stunt Wall’s growth. He’d be a good floor spacer and passer and his defense isn’t as bad when he plays small forward, I look at him as a cross between Songaila and Miller.
I think Tinsley’s on the Grizzlies and Ford’s a straight up cancer, but I’d be fine with just buying him out so that he’ll go away.
I doubt they give up the tenth pick, but it’d be really nice to use it on Whiteside or someone. At the same time, they really need a point guard and a shooting guard and there won’t be any good ones available there, so it’s possible. I still kind of want to see them use it on Hayward.
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