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Wall scouting report- from a fan who saw every second

Editor's Note, by Mike: Bumped to the FP.  Great perspective from a UK fan.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Hello everyone, and congrats on winning the draft lotto! As a Kentucky resident and huge UK fan, and as someone who closely follows the NBA without a real rooting interest (no team is close by, so I never latched on to one) I thought this board might enjoy hearing from someone who watched every second John Wall played this season.  Some of this you already know, but I bet some of it you don't. Here goes:

1) Athleticism: Wall is an elite athlete, but not in a Lebron/Vince Carter sense. He is stunningly fast with the basketball- really, I've never seen anyone like him in this respect.  He can go coast to coast faster than any player I have ever seen, and he can do it under control. He is an impressive, explosive leaper- he gets off the ground quickly, and can easily and effectively receive alley-oops. He is not like Lebron or Carter in that his vertical leap is good but not elite. He's not hitting his head on the backboard. Think Dwyane Wade here- terrific leaper, but not elite. Most impressive part of Wall athletically is the grace and fluidity with which he moves and plays. Great lateral quickness and agility.

2) Jump shot: Much has been made of Wall's jumper, and given that they both attended UK, comparisons to Rajon Rondo pop up. I can tell you with a good deal of confidence that Wall is a better shooter than Rondo. His shot is awkward to a degree- it's a set shot more than a jump shot, which could cause him problems in the league. He hardly elevates at all. Unlike Rondo, however, Wall is happy to shoot, and I think this is why he will ultimately have a respectable jumper. He has confidence in his shot and will take (and make) a jumper with the game on the line. He is a very solid free throw shooter.

3) Passing ability: This is the most underrated part of Wall's game. He is an instinctive and willing passer, likes the spectacular but not in love with it. I have heard various concerns over Wall averaging only 16ppg this year, but the truth is that for all his headlines, Wall truly is a pass-first point guard who doesn't seem to be worried in the least about getting his shots. He will be terrific in this regard in the NBA. He was top-ten in the nation in assists, and I am very confident that he will average 10+ assists per game within 3 years of arriving in the league.

4)Other offense: Wall was able to get to the rim in half-court sets essentially at will in college, although he was not as consistent at finishing as we would have liked. He has a tendency to flip up a difficult shot in traffic rather than going strong and drawing the foul. I think this will be easy to fix in the NBA. Wall struggled at times with running half-court offense and I expect that to continue in the NBA for awhile. He does not excel at reading defenses or getting his team into the correct half-court sets. He is absolutely fantastic on the break. Incredibly fast, instinctive, unselfish- absolutely devastating player on the break, best I've ever seen in college.

5)Defense: Wall was a good defender but clearly was not always focused. He set a season record for steals at UK, so the insticts are there, as is the ability. Focus will be the key, but Wall is a good kid who wants to be a good team player. Ultimately, I expect him to be an excellent defender in the NBA.

6)Rebounding: Ok rebounder for a guard, with the occasional spectular follow dunk. Nothing special in this regard but can help if needed.

7)Intangibles: Hands down, Wall's best attribute. I really can't stress this enough. He is a winner with an absolute sense of the moment. John Wall is not afraid. He relishes the Moment. If you envision a scale of 1-10 with a cold-blooded assassin like Jordan or Kobe a 10 and Vince Carter on the other end as a 1, Wall is about an 8.5 and he's 19 years old. I'm telling Wizards fans now- you are in for a huge treat, and I can't tell you how jealous I am that you'll probably get to root for Wall for the next decade or more. He is good enough to be the best player on a NBA championship team, and there aren't 10 guys in the league for whom that statement is true. He has "IT," that hard to define quality of the best of the best. Be patient with his shooting. Understand he is a great kid- after blasting UK's team GPA for last fall, the media has failed to report that he earned a 3.5 GPA in the SPRING semester, after he had already declared for the draft. We will miss John Wall.

This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.

Comment 43 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Well written and informative read. If you currently have no affiliation with any NBA team, you might as well root for the Wiz while Wall is here!

by Strong Side on May 22, 2010 9:33 AM EDT reply actions  

2nd

I 2nd that notion, misewell be a wiz fan

by macattack777 on May 22, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd too

Thanks for this. The thing about his athleticism is really interesting and something the draft profiles seem to leave out – he’s not a huge leaper, but that quickness is actually probably more important. How aggressive is he as far as contact? He seems like he could average 10 fta a game if he really wanted to, almost like Wade, Devin Harris, or Gil back in the day, but most of the highlights I’ve seen have shown him doing the Rose thing and maneuvering for a floater once he gets into the paint.

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by pantslessyoda1 on May 22, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions  

If he has a 43 inch max vert - he IS elite

The only one in the last 10 years to post better in the NBA Combine was Kenny Gregory (who? an incredible 45.5") and Nate Robinson (43.5")

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

didn't know that

and it surprises me. If you re-read my post I did say that he is a terrific leaper, just not Lebron-level. I’ll stand by that, I think, but no question he can get off the ground. I guess my point was that I think his leaping ability is the least impressive aspect of his athletism. His speed, agility, balance and fluidity are exceptional.

by UKguy on May 22, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah thats more like good to me

if we’re just seeing vertical then he seems like he has less than shannon brown, so I wouldn’t say elite, that’s only for the very few in the nba and there’s probably a handful that have higher vertical than wall

by Young Wook Lee on May 22, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, he's definitely athletic, but when I think elite, I think Francis and stuff

It’s not like he’s Fisher or something, but most of the clips (and it’s been almost entirely clips, I only watched like three or four Kentucky games this year) I’ve seen have had him darting around and then going up and laying it in. Like, he can definitely dunks and get up and those arms really help him as far as defense, but he doesn’t seem like someone who’s going to come in and start dunking on people. At least based on what I’ve seen, Wall seems more like Barbosa as far as physical tools (although obviously not as far as what he’ll produce) while Rose reminds me more of a more contact-shy Wade.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter that much – he’s got such incredible size, length, and quickness that even if he’s just “athletic” as opposed to “freakishly athletic”, we’re going to have someone with the physical tools to be at least as good as Rondo on defense, assuming that he applies himself.

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by pantslessyoda1 on May 22, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many point guards...

do teams routinely run alley oops for on the receiving end?

by Siis on May 22, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys have unbelievably high standards then :)

If a 43-inch vertical is not considered elite and is only considered “good” then you guys have unbelievably high standards.

As Rook posted above, on the DraftExpress pre-draft measurement chart, there are only 6 players in the past two decades who have posted a maximum vertical of 43.0 inches or higher:

Vince Carter in 1998 at 43.0 inches
Jamario Moon in 2001 at 43.0 inches
Matt Santangelo in 2000 at 43.0 inches
Tim Bowers in 2004 at 43.5 inches
Nate Robinson in 2005 at 43.5 inches
Kenny Gregory in 2001 at 45.5 inches (wow!)

Nate Robinson has a standing reach of 7 feet 7.5 inches and John Wall is at 8 feet, 5.5 inches standing reach. If little Nate can do what he did at the dunk contests and in-game with a vertical that is only 0.5 inches higher than Wall, then imagine what the additional reach that Wall has can do for him.

I just don’t understand it….I mean if you are top 6 or top 7 in vertical leap in the last 15+ years at the Combine, how can you not consider him ELITE?

FYI we all know that Nick Young is a great leaper, and even Nick measured out at “only” 40.5 inch max vertical. And Nick’s standing reach was at 8 feet 4.5 inches, which is an inch shorter than Wall.

Also, here’s a link I just saw about Wall’s performance during athletic testing portion of the Combine:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2010-nba-draft-combine-john-wall-better-than-competition

by formula0 on May 22, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny about Nick

How can he be listed at 6’7" with a 7-foot wingspan can only have a 8’ 4.5" reach while John Wall, at 6’4" and a 6’ 9.25" wingspan has a 8’ 5.5" standing reach….

I mean – someone has to be standing on tippy toes…..

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 22, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wall has narrow shoulders

Nick has the frame to add quite a bit more muscle if he gets into the gym.

by yop32 on May 22, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

This Nick Young?

With the shoulders that make up an almost 8 inch difference in height, arm length and standing reach?

Yeah – I can see his really wide shoulders there…… hmmmm………….

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 22, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

And is this the John Wall

with those incredibly narrow shoulders?

No – - – I think there’s something else at work here…..

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on May 22, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just talking about bone structure

Nick has the bone structure to put on a bunch of weight. He’s obviously missing something though. Can’t say if he’s missing the base musculature, necessary work ethic, or what. But at least he has the bone structure.

Oh, another big part of it is that Nick has a long neck. Adds to his height, but not to his standing reach.

by yop32 on May 22, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, it's head and neck height

For example, I’m four inches taller than my girlfriend, but our shoulders are almost level (yes, I have a big noggin). Looking at those pictures, it looks like Young has a little more head & neck height.

by steadyhand on May 24, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

didn’t expect to become a featured post, but I had fun writing this and am glad some have enjoyed it. To your question, Wall doesn’t avoid contact per se, as Rose tends to do, he just hasn’t developed the skill of creating the foul on a drive.

by UKguy on May 22, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought about doing that!

But I don’t see much chance of the Wizards taking Demarcus. For Cousins, his biggest issue will be athleticism, not attitude. People keep comparing him to Derrick Coleman and I’ve even heard Joe Barry Carroll for those of us who go back awhile. But those guys cared too little. Demarcus cares too much. I think he’ll be ok in this regard- Rasheed Wallace in his prime is a worst-case, I think, as far as attitude goes. Cousins’ skill level is remarkable, it really is. Hands, footwork, post moves are all excellent. But he is a poor NBA athlete. He’s the opposite of Dwight Howard. Can’t elevate very well, is slow down the court and at 19, was kind of fat and lumpy this year at UK. He will struggle at least at first to score against the best NBA centers. He’s a great teammate- he sees his job to be to lead his team into war and other guys follow him. Bottom line, I love Demarcus just like I love Wall, but he’s not a guaranteed NBA success.

by UKguy on May 23, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your comments have been excellent...

As another long time fan, I am very interested that you made Rasheed Wallace your worst-case scenario for Demarcus Cousins.

If that is true, someone drafting in the 3-5 range would be nuts to pass on him.

Ref-baiting, general nuttiness, bravado and such aside, Rasheed Wallace (whom the Bullets picked at #4 somewhere back in the mid-90s) has been an extremely fine NBA player for a long, long time.

Like Antawn Jamison, who was Wallace’s successor in post-Jordan UNC front liners, he was paired with a great collegiate wing player (Stackhouse with Wallace, Vince Carter wth Antawn Jamison), As a further comparison, earlier UNC predecessors of Wallace were people like Robert MacAdoo and James Worthy.

Wallace and the others were taught by Dean Smith and his staff, to be as complete a front-court package as humanly possible… rebound, score inside, score outside, pass well, space the court, make free throws… what you see today is at its base what was developed back then.

But while Jamison throughout his career could score more and pick off junk rebounds better than Wallace, Wallace is a first and foremost a wicked defender. He is a briliant combination of unexpectedly great athleticism, tough-guy attitude and physical bulk (he was a much leaner and spectacular player out of college, and it took him a few years to bulk up to the stage where he was very hard to push away under the boards) He is also willing to take the big shot and hit it far more often than not.

If you look at what Wallace had done since he left the Bullets for Portand, Detroit and now Boston, it’s an impressive body of work. If you look at him right now at age 37 playing for the Cetics against the Magic, you will see the virtue of a player like this over the long haul. People like Bill Simmons and other Bostonians have been maligning Rahseed for being a slacker all season. Now he is providing incredible value off the bench against Dwight Howard… as he said he would all season long.

His next challenge will be Lamar Odom, and I actually sympathize with Odom for what is very likely to happen to him, as this could well be Rasheed’s last stand at the top of the game.

So, as I was saying, UKGuy if you believe that Cousins is gonna be that good as a worst-case, a team picking at 3-5 would be nuts not to take him,

by khrabb on May 23, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not quite what I meant

If you re-read that, I said Wallace is a worst-case scenario, attitude-wise. Meaning that Rasheed is a hothead, so is Demarcus to a degree, but that Demarcus is at worst Rasheed. He ref baits like Rasheed and ticks off opponents like Rasheed. But also like Rasheed, he’s a good teammate and doesn’t get into trouble off the court.

Cousins will be much more of a pure post player than Wallace has been. When he came to UK, lots of people said he would be an Antoine Walker-like big, who could handle the ball and shoot. We didn’t see much of that, and I think we (and Demarcus) were better for it.

I agree that Rasheed has been a good pro for a long time, and Cousins could be as good a pro as Rasheed. But when I said Wallace was the worst-case scenario, I meant only with respect to attitude/personality issues. Sorry for the confusion!

by UKguy on May 23, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thik we are in violent agreement!

And I am glad to hear that Cousins’ play convinced UK fans to drop any comparisons between Demarcus and Antoine Walker.

Hope you decide to follow the Wizards, and thanks again for your very well-writtent assessment of John Wall.

by khrabb on May 23, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whenever an AAU/McDonalds phenom's best attribute is his intangibles

you know thats saying something. 95% of the players in the NBA are the virtually identical athletically. What separates average players from great ones is their mental makeup. If John Wall’s basketball understanding is what makes him great, we are in for a treat.

by John Park Williams on May 22, 2010 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Definitely

Aside from just seeming like a very mature guy, I love how much pride he takes in his defense. You see him cheering as much after drawing a charge as he does after scoring on a crazy shot. That’s pretty rare with young guys, especially the ones who are the focal points of their teams’ offenses.

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by pantslessyoda1 on May 22, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember when

Gilbert was the fastest guy on the court with the ball? Who knows what’s gonna happen with Arenas, but if he ends up staying AND rekindling even some of his past magic, can you imagine how sick our fast break is gonna be? JaVale has to be licking his chops. He may be the only center in the league that can run with these guys. Mike D’Antoni has to be mad as hell he didn’t get this job. This would be his dream lineup. Nellie’s too.

by CJHutch on May 22, 2010 7:09 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Eh, we lack the shooting for D'Antoni or Nellie

But you’re exactly right about our fast break. It’s going to be sick, especially when you add in Dray’s passing and ball-handling ability. I don’t want or expect him to lead the break, but it can’t hurt to have another guy who can bring the ball up.

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by pantslessyoda1 on May 22, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

shooting?

who needs shooting? Imagine playing the Celtics. It’s be a 5 on Rondo break. We’ll be at the rim before at least 3 of the other teams players cross mid court.

Seriously though, you’re right. We are gonna have to add some shooters. And while Nellie’s and D’Antoni’s systems are fun to watch, neither have championship pedigree’s. Which means a warp speed break will be fun to watch this year, but after that we need to get serious about winning.

by CJHutch on May 22, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Which means a warp speed break will be fun to watch this year, but after that we need to get serious about winning.

Yes, yes, and yes. Couldn’t have said it better myself. The fun part is is, I know I’ll be watching, even if the team wins 30 games. It should be too much fun not to.

That's right, I said the Wizards would win 49 games in 09-10. Free advice is sometimes worth what you pay.

by bronco6778 on May 23, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Time to dream the dream...

I really hope you are right, I’ve been living of off Wes, Phil, Bobby D and the incomparable Big E for over 30 years… it’s past time for a new era…

Also, if you look at the scenarios in CJs and yoda’s posts… it is clear that the Wiz will need to add a two-way scoring and defensive 3 to the Wall-Gil-Dray-JVM mix.

by khrabb on May 23, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fans View Of John Wall

Thanks for writing this and letting us get a chance to see a fans point of view of John Wall! I’m very excited to see him here in a Wizards uniform for the next decade!

by Beltwayboy on May 22, 2010 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I got goosebumps reading this
If you envision a scale of 1-10 with a cold-blooded assassin like Jordan or Kobe a 10 and Vince Carter on the other end as a 1, Wall is about an 8.5 and he’s 19 years old. I’m telling Wizards fans now- you are in for a huge treat, and I can’t tell you how jealous I am that you’ll probably get to root for Wall for the next decade or more. He is good enough to be the best player on a NBA championship team, and there aren’t 10 guys in the league for whom that statement is true. He has “IT,” that hard to define quality of the best of the best.

DC Landing Strip - Waxed and Ready to Go

by Alex Reed on May 22, 2010 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Stop hating on Gil!!

He will be fine, and Gil and wall will be one of the top scoring combo back court in the nba….Just remember when Hughes was here and all the steals and points that were scored….I got the wizs going to the next level now with a top FA coming this summer :D

by Robh2010 on May 23, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

It is encouraging

to hear that Wall is a bit of a ball hawking type guard who gets a lot of steals. That should mesh well with Gilbert, assuming that he is still playing for us. As for them being a great scoring tandem, that remains to be seen. I’m not sure if Gil is going to be suited for playing the two guard, as much as that has been pushed around this site. He’s played his whole career wtih the ball in his hand as the facilitator, that is going to be a hard adjustment. I do think that Gil can do it though. He enjoys getting his teammates involved, although I do not believe that he is a natural passer, in that he is not a pass first guy. But the years that he was in the backcourt with Larry do provide some optimism.

by seewhite on May 23, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wall and Gil will be able to work together.

Wall is willing to pass the ball in situations and wont force anything thats not there. Hes a playmaker that will get everyone the ball. If he was ball hungry, he would have averaged more then 16 points per game.

by Speedytosin on May 23, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Licking my chops

Great article and I can’t wait for next season to start. Watching Rondo in the playoffs has reminded me what a tough, aggressive and smart floor leader can do for your team. And 19 years old! Good god man, we need to put him in some bubble wrap so nothing can happen to him until training camp.

by seewhite on May 23, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

very enjoyable read...

thank you very much, have fun with knight and the rest of the stud freshman you have coming in next year. P.S. I promise we won’t steal calipari from you. (or i hope not at least)

by stlballa on May 23, 2010 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Antwan who? Caron what?drew gooden????

Wizards! first pick! first pick!!!!!
great insight Ukguy.

by Mikko Leinonen's opposite on May 23, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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