Wizards get blown out, turned over, pushed around by Bucks in loss
by Mike Prada on Mar 3, 2010 10:18 PM EST
in Recaps
46 comments
Oh well. These kinds of games are going to happen to this team. The talent level just isn't good enough. Plus, Milwaukee's playing really well right now and they're one team we can never count on outhustling.
Quick bullets:
- Andray Blatche obviously didn't play great, but he still put up decent numbers against a tenacious defense. That's ultimately a good thing for his development.
- Like JaVale McGee's game for the most part. He held Bogut down pretty well, though the Bucks scored a ton of points by running pick and rolls at JaVale.
- Mike Miller was invisible, passing up a wide open layup at one point (no surprise). Al Thornton was invisible and got killed on defense by John Salmons and Jerry Stackhouse (surprise).
- Nick Young needs to stop shooting. Earl Boykins needs to make better decisions. But you knew that already.
- Randy Foye was okay with his shot, but not great with his decision-making. Kyle's analysis of Foye was great, but the bottom line is a point guard who is incapable of getting into the lane will not be a consistent player.
- Milwaukee has a lot of guys I didn't think I'd like, but I do. Ersan Ilyasova. Carlos Delfino. Luke Ridnour. It's a Scott Skiles team.
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we are bucks-light
half the salary commitment, half the calories.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 3, 2010 10:22 PM EST reply actions
err
i think with Gil we might have more salary.
err
gil didn’t play tonight. and i think we still have less money committed than the bucks for next year, counting gil.
as for the guys that are playing for the wiz right now – i’m not sure you could field a cheaper team.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 3, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Not for next year
They’re at $55 million for nine players (counting Salmons though, who could opt out).
We’re at $28 million, not counting Josh Howard.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
exactly half!
how ’bout that. spot on!
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 3, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
i was wrong then.
it happens. do you feel good about yourself?
The Bucks Have Gadzuric
on their books for 7 million????
How does that happen?
shine like bald head, smoke trees call me log head
was that ernie's doing?
i wouldn’t be surprised…
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 4, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Dray
Agree with you that this is great for AB’s development— he still put up decent numbers i the face of a tough defense.
if Dray averages the numbers he put up tonight for the next season (18 PPG, 9 RPG, 3 APG), we should all pop the champagne corks.
I just need to keep pounding into my head
development, development, development. These losses should not be frustrating as fans, it’s just that these players have been such a pleasant surprise that I get my hopes up.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Mar 3, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
losses
unlike the old wiz who lost games with 3 all-stars on the roster, the new wizards losses shouldnt be frustrating or disappointing to any fans. AB and JM are getting valuable playing time, which will only make them better players next year. For instance, have you notice that AB doesn’t pick up 2 or 3 quick fouls anymore, like he used to? He’s learning how to manage his fouls.
exactly
I know I keep saying this, but I’m OK with the losses. Truthfully, I was a little nervous when we first started our “second season”, thinking we’d play ourselves out of a good lottery chance. The experience is good for these guys, as long as they are competing and developing. But we still need a top tier talent in the draft, which means more losses this year.
I just hope that this game was an aberration. The loss I can deal with, but I don’t like the fact that Thornton disappeared (especially after I’ve been singing his praise all week.), and Singleton seems to have taken it down a notch since his injury. I know I shouldn’t complain since he did end up with 8 or 9 boards, but I just didn’t see him bouncing off the walls like he usually does.
As for Blatche, I think he’s been creeping outside a little too much these last 2 games, but I was still satisfied with his game considering he didn’t have much help. I mean, we’re talking about him having a bad game (or at least mediocre) with 18 and 8(?). That’s pretty damned good for an “off day.”
Agreed
I know I’m not supposed to expect these guys to win, but they have been winning at a better clip lately without any All-Stars on the team. And last night was the first game they weren’t competitive. These guys had my hopes up, and I was deflated even though these types of games should realistically happen from time to time.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
kyle's article is really good
neither gil nor foye will ever be great flip saunders point guards imo.
that doesn’t mean they can’t be valuable players.
i’m not sure derek fisher gets in the lane much, but i consider him a GREAT player at the one. i would LOVE it if flip was capable of running stuff through players other than the point guard – like say, the lakers and cavs. they’re pretty good, huh?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 3, 2010 10:48 PM EST reply actions
derek fisher = randy foye
that will now be stuck in my head.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 3, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
i would LOVE it if flip was capable of running stuff through players other than the point guard – like say, the lakers and cavs. they’re pretty good, huh?
Okay, all we have to do is find the next Kobe or Lebron… Problem solved, easy peasy lemon squeezy…
But seriously, A good number of our sets run through Mike Miller. I’d have no problem with that in fact, if he wasn’t such an awesome set shooter…
yeah
those guys aren’t easy to come by.
i do think randy is an nba player, but he’s not looking like a guy you build around. rather you’d add him around the other piece he fits.
it’s too bad though, because i think that kind of piece would greatly benefit gil too.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Mar 4, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Ilyasova looked promising in his first go-around
Now he looks downright valuable.
I hope McGee can pay off like that. He’s got more talent than Ersan, so there’s potential for even greater payoff.
I’m loving Blatche’s game. His inconsistent play up until the trade was maddening, but if he can maintain some consistency now, it’s all water under the bridge.
"Now, obviously individual production does not unilaterally equal better team production, but there's a high level of causation."
by Vanilla Gorilla on Mar 3, 2010 11:58 PM EST reply actions
Someone mentioned Luke Ridnour in the game thread
His stats this season are really good – I had no idea. Not sure if it’s just a contract year thing, but he’s definitely worth keeping an eye on this offseason.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Mar 4, 2010 1:46 AM EST reply actions
On Yahoo Sports
Bucks fans were consistenly saying they hope they bring back Ridinour even if they have to slightly overpay him.
shine like bald head, smoke trees call me log head
Call me a die hard Wizard for saying this but this is our real answer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DcjazqOSh0
AND BUILD AROUND IT.
Save money. Big players. Talented, ALLSTAR players.
Arenas-Blatche-McGee… It’s a start…
Surprised no Singleton man-love stuff yet today. He had a decent line for a man who had to put on an ankle boot after the game, eh?
His advanced stats are very good
He just needs AB to teach him how to shoot :)
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Mar 4, 2010 4:58 AM EST up reply actions
The loss of Josh Howard
….hurts Foye the most, and the team a lot.
Build around Foye, Blatche, McGee with a franchise player and a high draft pick.
Thorton’s a good bench player. Arenas is history in DC. They like guns in Detroit.
The Team Looked Slower
Buckhantz and Chenier said they saw as much hustle as always from the guys, but I didn’t sense the same energy level. In previous games, our guys were running around like rabbits running from a predator. Last night, they got eaten. Our players looked like they were playing with weight boots on. In addition, guys were making lazy passes and were careless with the ball. That one lazy, behind the back dump pass from Thornton to Foye before the half court line really bothered me. I mean, he could have simply slowed down and handed the ball to Foye. Why take chances with so much full court pressure?
There just wasn’t any intensity or desire in our guys last night. Ironically, this happened after the first two day rest these guys have had since arriving here. What did these guys do in practice, take turns practicing who could jog the slowest? It figures that right after I defend Flip on this board, he sends our guys out unprepared. I hope that he can get this team focused for Friday.
I know that many are impressed with McGee’s development, but he really annoyed the piss out of me last night. He just never seems to learn that he doesn’t have to bite on every single pump fake! I mean, he bit on one pump fake so hard that he looked like he hurt himself. And he was consistently out of position on defense. Despite his decent offensive stats, I thought that he was completely abused on the defensive side of the ball and played a bad game overall. Is he ever going to learn? I’m starting to become skeptical.
Oh well, more ping pong balls I guess. Maybe we’ll get lucky in the lottery. Who knows.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
A lot of it had to do with the Bucks
They’re the scrappiest, hardest-playing team in the league. I think their physicality pissed us off and wasn’t something we’re used to.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
But I'd also say this
I forget who said it (maybe JVG), but playing hard is a talent.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
playing hard is a talent.
But it’s also a talent that can be developed, worked on, and improved……
I agree with your assessment 100%… The Wizards have been winning because they have been out-working their opponents. Denver thought they could just coast, and turn it on whenever they wanted…. They also out-hustled Minnesota and Chicago for wins… NJ fought hard, but they’re just a bad team.
But when the Wizards come up against a more talented team – and that opponent works hard – the Wiz will lose. They simply don’t have the horses to compete against good teams; especially good teams that work hard. Sure, they’ll surprise the occasional good team on an off-night (or on the back end of a back-to-back, or on a night when the opponent just thinks they can turn it on – like Denver)…
Having said that – I STILL would rather watch this less talented team hustle, work hard and lose… than the previous iteration with the more “talented” Wizards.
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Yeah, absolutely
It’s like shooting or quickness; it can always be improved.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
McGee’s development … Is he ever going to learn? I’m starting to become skeptical.
Count up the total number of minutes he’s played in the NBA so far, and then you tell me whether you have more or less patience than my kindergartener… LOL!
It’ll be at least the second half of next season before he even begins to perform anywhere near his potential. And that’s an optimistic view – he needs AT LEAST a full year (and more like two full years) being in a consistent role with consistent minutes before we can begin to judge him on anything besides how high his ceiling is… I’m more so exited with the fact that we have our starting front court for the next 6-8 years in place, than concerned about how fast he’ll reach this potential.
Patience is Not My Strong Suit
Still, I’m not expecting McGee to perform near his potential. I just want to see him make small steps. It seems so far that every step forward has been proceeded by at least one step backward. I thought I saw signs of him staying down on pump fakes a few games ago, but last night he reverted to his old pogo-stick like self. The guy has a wingspan that stretches into the rafters and yet he thinks he has to jump 10 feet high every time a player goes up with the ball. It’s very frustrating, but what can I do? I keep hoping he gets just a little better. Just a little better.
"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier
Small steps forward and backward are to be expected
If his instinct says jump, then he has to relearn that instinct. Its not as simple as knowing you shouldn’t jump. it has to be internalized, so it becomes his default behavior or his natural reaction, as opposed to a conscious thought that “hey I shouldn’t bite on his pump fake”. That’s a process.
Same goes for other aspects of his game (obviously for different reasons of course). For example, defensive positioning is a matter of technique and strength.
I think he’s on an exponential curve, where development in the beginning is excruciatingly slow, but quickly ramps up. As opposed to a player who comes into the league as an essentially known quantity, where he quickly acclimates to the game, but quickly reaches his plateau (for example Kevin Love – IMO he already is who he will be as a player).
But here's the problem
If you develop too slowly, then you make it a tough decision for the team when your rookie contract is up. You end up offering them nothing when you’re cheap and as soon as you begin to produce, you have to get overpaid. That’s why smarter teams are not dealing with projects as much as in the past.
We got lucky with Blatche because of the solicitation thing and because he was a second-round pick, meaning he was a free agent sooner. We were able to get him for less money that way, and as it turned out, he turned things around. That’s a big leap of faith though.
I also strongly dispute what you’re saying about Kevin Love. Wait until he gets some real playing time.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
The pronouns are confusing in that second sentence
Should read “The player ends up offering the team nothing when they’re cheap, and as soon as he begins to produce, the team has to overpay them.”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Meh...
I agree we got lucky with AB, but OTOH, given his indifference on the court at the time, what do you think he would’ve gotten (either from us or on the open market) sans john-gate? I’d say he would’ve gotten around $4.5M this year instead of $3M.
As far as having untapped potential when your rookie contract is up, the game is a little different for big men, given that they take longer to develop. Its almost a given that you have to overpay them and hope that they develop to their potential. Given that, Haywood was well underpaid production-wise this year and 07-08 (and would’ve been in 08-09 barring injury), and IMO overpaid early in his contract. So it cuts both ways. You just try to get them on a contract that’s fair and hope they keep working toward their full potential.
and as for Love, his potential is to be a very smart kind of wily bball player and a leader who hustles and fights for everything he gets on the floor, has good court vision, a good passer, average defender, and a better rebounder than you would think. He’s already that. His numbers may go up with more minutes, but I’d be surprised if his per 36 numbers are significantly (more than 15-20%) higher than they are now.
Whereas with Javale, I’d be surprised if his per 36 numbers aren’t significantly higher in a few years.
But Love's per-minute numbers are insane right now
Even if they stay where they are with more time (which doesn’t happen very much, you almost always see your per-minute numbers go up with more minutes), I doubt McGee ever approaches them.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
From my SBN power rankings
Right now, Kevin Love’s player efficiency rating is 22.7, which is better than all-stars Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Amare Stoudemire and Kevin Garnett, not to mention snub Josh Smith. He’s grabbing over 21 percent of all available rebounds, and he singlehandily improves his team’s rebound percentage by 4.6 percent by being on the floor. Oh, and he just turned 21.
How impressive has Kevin Love been this year? Here’s a list of players under the age of 23 who have posted a single-season PER above 22 and a rebound percentage over 17: Tim Duncan (twice). Chris Bosh. Elton Brand. Terry Cummings. Kevin Love. That’s it. And of the five, Love’s rebound percentage is by far the highest.
It’s really just a list of forwards, but still, that’s insane.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Maybe someone like Al Horford would prove your point better
His per-minute and advanced numbers have improved gradually, but not dramatically.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Well my point has nothing to do with how good Love is
I’m just saying that I expect any improvement (especially when measured per minute) to be incremental, and I don’t expect a huge jump. Whereas I definitely do expect a jump in McGee’s numbers, somewhere between the late 10/11 and early 11/12 seasons.
I chose Love as an example because he’s a beast, by the way.
I guess I don't follow you then
Let’s start over. You say bigs take longer to develop. I agree. However, one of the things to remember with the way the current CBA is set up is that it’s economically smart to get players who can play right away so they can produce well when they’re cheap, rather than slowly developing while they’re cheap and then producing only when they’re expensive. That, in my mind, is Ernie’s biggest problem with the draft. You can throw away one pick on a project big, but he threw away three (Blatche, McGee, Pech) AND traded away two for veterans. That’s not a very economical use of your cheap labor. He had to pay vets to play roles those NBA-ready rookies could play, which clogged up the payroll.
As far as Love, I thought you were trying to compare the two, to which my point was Love was already better than McGee will likely ever be (though he should be, one was a top-five pick, the other wasn’t). If that’s not the point you were making, I apologize.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
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