Shaun Livingston is a part of the solution ... as a backup point guard
I love Shaun Livingston. Who doesn't? He's a great story of someone who hasn't given up and has worked his way back so far even to get to this point. We root for him because he had so much promise and had it all wrecked by injury, even though he hadn't yet shown much before he got hurt. We root for him because he's the closest thing to the pure pass-first point guard that we have.
But while it's understandable to get excited over Livingston's play, I do want to inject a dose of caution to those who feel like we've found the long-term answer at point guard. He isn't that guy. Livingston very likely is the kind of guy you keep around as a backup point guard who can step in effectively without much of a drop-off, but he's not a starter for a good offensive team.
Why? For all of Livingston's good play, there remains one fundamental problem: he can't shoot. Or, more accurately, he can't score efficiently. Livingston's true shooting percentage in his 12-game stint with the Wizards is an abysmal 48.3%, which, sadly, is well in line with his career mark even before the injury (so no, this isn't just a small sample size fluke). How bad is 48.3%? It would put him 55th among all point guards in the NBA if he had already played 500 minutes this season. The following point guards have a higher true shooting percentage than Livingston this year:
- Anthony Carter
- D.J. Augustin (in an absolutely horrendous year)
- Earl Watson
- Carlos Arroyo
- Our very own Earl Boykins
You might be asking why Livingston's TS% is so low. Really, it's simple: Livingston doesn't have a three-point shot, doesn't draw fouls by penetrating inside (he's shot five free throws in 12 games) and doesn't really have a consistent mid-range jumper. Even if he developed that consistent mid-range jumper, his shooting efficiency would not be good.
And before you say "Who cares?," consider that you cannot build a good offense with a point guard that has no scoring ability. The offense may look better with Livingston running it, but it doesn't actually score more efficiently on the whole. According to Basketball Value, the Wizards' offensive efficiency with Livingston on the court is 102.7, compared to 105.3 when Livingston is off the court. Livingston actually improves the defense (1.2 points/100 possessions better) with his presence than he does the offense.
UPDATE: As TheSecretWeapon points out, those are Livingston's full-season on/off marks, so my bad. If you scroll down on the page, you see his Wizards-only marks. However, the larger point still stands. The Wizards' offensive efficiency is 102 with Livingston in the game and 104 when he isn't. It's not as large of a negative effect, but it's still a negative effect.
That isn't to say Livingston has no value. He really is a tremendous passer, as evidenced by his 32.7% assist percentage and, well, watching the games. There's an intangible quality to a good passer that makes things easier for everyone, even if it's not reflected in the on/off court stats. It's far easier for Flip Saunders to feel comfortable with Livingston running this offense than with anyone else, and on a team that needs other guys to develop, having a player who can facilitate that with good passing instead of shot jacking is very important. I would feel fairly comfortable going into next season with Livingston backing up either Gilbert Arenas or some other point guard acquired in some other fashion.
That said, let's not pretend he's the legitimate long-term answer at the position. He can't score efficiently, and he's shown no indication of being able to do so even when fully healthy. And as the numbers always show, when your point guard can't score efficiently, you can't have a good offense.
51 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Eric Snow wasn't the best PG in terms of scoring
and he worked out pretty well for Philly and Cleveland.
If Livingston can at least get a reliable open jumper, he’ll be fine as a starter or backup. PG’s don’t need to be scoring machines, they need to make sure the ball crosses halfcourt and set up the offense.
That's true
Snow was brutal on offense. However, he was also an elite defender, which Livingston was not, and frankly, I don’t want to mimic the 00/01 Sixers’ offense.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Well argued...
bottom line is that Livingston does have a legitimate role,,, and future… with the Wizzies
I dunno.
I’m not sure anyone really had him penciled in as the starter next year, and you are right about the shooting percentage.
BUT – I’m not sure that you can rule out the small sample size argument. He really didn’t start putting it together until right before his knee injury – he was still 21 IIRC – and that knee injury did set him back. I mean, we’re counting on Blatche to carry our team now, does this mean we need to pencil him in as a backup because his stats weren’t great until after the all-star break? No.
Does he need to work on getting his own points? Absolutely – if he develops a 3-point shot he’ll be pretty scary. Right now I view Shaun as a backup PG, that could mesh well with Gil when he comes back AND someone who is still early in his development. This why I think we should sign him to a Blatche-esque deal: long-term and low risk. At the very least you get a talented (but probably injury prone) backup. But if he puts it together – you’ve really got something.
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
Even in the year Livingston was supposedly “putting it together,” his true shooting percentage was an awful 50.3%.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I disagree, was Gilbert efficient with his shots this year?
Not at all, he was a complete jacker (who missed) this year. His FG % was atrocious. His Assist to Turnover % was atrocious.
Do I think Shaun will be an all star? Nah…can he be a Derek Fisher, Dennis Johnson, Kenny Smith, Avery Johnson, John Paxson, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong, etc etc…..sure. They all have rings though. He can improve his shooting touch (he’s been sitting at home for a few years, give him a break), but de doesn’t need to be a scorer.
If we put a stud scoring threats around him he just needs to be a facilitator and run the offense. That’s their job. Give him Evan Turner and Blatche…..good things will happen.
Do I want Darren Collison…yes?
Prada’s point that you need a scoring guard to be successful? Nah.
Name one good offensive team that had a point guard who couldn't shoot
And don’t give me the 00/01 Sixers – they sucked on offense and won with insanely good defense.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Lakers this year
Although the triangle makes it much less of a problem.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
That's true
Fisher’s way off with his shot. But my response would be a) their offense is significantly underperforming, and b) Fisher at least still carries the reputation of being a good shooter, which is something Livingston doesn’t have.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Fair enough
Any good offense nowadays needs spacing and the offense (11th in offensive efficiency) has suffered from it, although part of it has been integrating Artest and Gasol and Bynum learning to play off each other.
And I’m afraid all Fisher has to go on is reputation at the moment, as he’s been putrid this season.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
If you mean now, yeah it's kinda rare
but I would say that’s because too many teams have tried to emulate the Nash Suns teams.
Outside the last two or three seasons, there’s the Trailblazers (when they were loaded and being coached by Dunleavy (sp)); the Kings (Jason Williams wasn’t a scoring machine, and half the time he took ill-advised shots) and, well the Wizards under EJ (Gilbert isn’t a real PG).
But yes, it’s true that a team needs a PG who can at least hit an open jumper to be offensively successful. Moreso though, a team needs a PG who knows how to set up an offense.
And for all of Gilbert's problems this year
His TS% was still way better than Livingston’s.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
We picked up Shaun at the home depot parking lot
let’s give him some more time to judge.
for what he’s displayed so fair is pretty darn impressive.
To be determined
I don’t expect Livingston to become the starter we need, but the jury’s not out yet. He’s still a young guy and is working his way back from injury. If he develops a jumper (not unusual for great passers to develop this skill late), then he could be a very solid starter. I think he’s worth a longish cheap contract (with a two-year team option, if that’s possible). As long as the knee holds up, he’ll be handy to have on the bench.
Pass first over shoot first
If Livingston can involve the team if and when he starts averaging 35+ minutes, then give me Livingston over Arenas. Putting all of Arenas’ antics aside, teams don’t win with shoot first point guards like Arenas.
He hasn't looked like a starting PG on a good team to me
I agree, backup PG would be a good solid role for him. I think he’d be among the better backups in the league. That’s a nice luxury to have.
Another look
I think that basketballvalue’s on/off numbers are for the entire season. If this is the case, the on/off comparison doesn’t give an accurate reflection of Livingston’s effect on the offense. During the 12 games Livingston has been with the Wizards, the team has had an offensive rating of 96.9 points per 100 possessions. So, the team’s offense may actually be better when Livingston is on the floor. I don’t think that affects your overall analysis of Livingston. Just sayin’.
by TheSecretWeapon on Mar 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions
Actually, you're right
But the conclusion is still that the Wizards do better offensively without him. If you scroll down on the page, they break the stints up thustly.
Wizards with him on the court: 102.3
Wizards with him off the court: 104.
Not as drastic, but he’s still not helping.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Also
those stats involve his playing with the backups….I’d like too wait and see a larger sample with him playing with the starters.
Sorry, 102.03
So really, 102 if you round down.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
fantasy basketball
The guy just stepped out the YMCA….can we wait awhile before even discussing his long term viability in this league…What kind of stats were Blatche and Singleton putting up before they got any sufficient playing times. I think these STATS are pretty worthless when you are dealing with a)players that are so young and STILL developing and b) that havent had sufficient LONG TERM playing time in their career.
by baltimorebullets80 on Mar 23, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions
Still too small a sample
This kid has the summer to work on his shot, lets see what happens before we condemn him to the bench.
Either way, right now, I’d rather have someone who can run the offense efficiently than a scorer who can’t get his teammates involved in the offense. This team is still far from worrying about a championship run and just needs to get back to respectability first…and I believe Shaun could help us do that as a starter if he is needed in that role.
But the issue isn't his jump shot per se
It’s that he also needs to learn how to draw fouls to score efficiently. Even if his midrange jumper gets better, it won’t make that much of a different on his TS%.
And, again, he was never an efficient scorer even when healthy.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
i dont understand
if he can work on his shot, why can’t he work on driving to the rack? I remember Ason Kidd when he came in the league. No one respected his jumpshot. Even Arenas has worked on getting better at setting up his teamates.
by baltimorebullets80 on Mar 23, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Kidd drew way more fouls than Livingston currently draws
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Drawing fouls
for anyone on this team, at the moment, is a tough job…this team just has no respect from officials for now.
His ability to draw fouls was pretty crappy when he was healthy too
Not as crappy as it is now, but pretty terrible nonetheless.
I really don’t want to make this seem like I’m dooming Livingston to NBA irrelevancy, but there’s really nothing in his profile that suggests he’s going to become a starting-level point guard. He wasn’t one before he got hurt, and while he was young and making strides, young players tend to demonstrate something in their profile that indicates stardom is on the way. There wasn’t really anything in Livingston’s, other than his incredible passing ability. But if all you can do is pass, it makes you a limited player.
That’s fine, you need limited players on your bench. But it doesn’t strike me as a prudent long-term strategy to hold out hope that he demonstrates abilities he never demonstrated when he was healthy.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
you watch gilbert play too much
the job of the point guard is not to draw fouls or be a scorer. It’s to facilitate and make his teammates better.
Secondly, shaun was playing NBA Live on his xbox 360 last month collecting rust. Judge him after conditioning and a real game season intervals.
I agree with your assertion
about him not being an efficient scorer at this point, but I’d like to wait and see what improvement(if any) the summer brings and if Sam Cassell can help him.
I didn’t phrase my intent correctly, my fault, I used the term shot as a generalization when game would have been a better word for my intent. So to rephrase…This kid has the summer to work on his game.
I’ll still stand by my take that this team needs a facilitator more than a scorer at this point.
I'd agree, but the goal is to have a low-usage facilitator who also scores relatively efficiently
Instead of someone who is low-usage because he can’t score efficiently.
That’s kind of what separates starting-quality PGs from backups.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
For example
A guy like Kyle Lowry has the same usage percentage as Livingston, but has a much higher TS% and plays better defense.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
If he doesn't improve
over the summer, then I agree he’s destined to a backup role….but considering how little the kid had played in recent years and factoring in his age, I’m willing to wait and see what the summer holds before passing that judgement…..I think he’s at least earned that.
I definitely agree that he's earned a right to get a new contract
And sure, he could improve. But I don’t want us going into the summer thinking “we’re set at point guard because we have Shaun Livingston.”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
So.....
That would be a " no " on purchasing a Livingston replica Wizards jersey.
by Mikko Leinonen's opposite on Mar 23, 2010 3:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
depends on the options
No, I wouldn’t want Livingston to be our starter. But if it’s between him and Foye, I’ll take Livingston. I don’t know what other free agent PG’s are out there. And, do we really want to spend money on one if we’re expecting Gil back after his Shawshank stint?
The bottom line is, no, Livingston is not the answer long term. But if he needs to be a stop-gap, I’m OK with it. (Sure would be nice to have Rubio in our stable right about now)
Off the top of my head, here are the relevant FA point guards that won't cost a fortune
Raymond Felton
Will Bynum
CJ Watson
Kyle Lowry (restricted) <—— my top choice
AJ Price (I believe, might be wrong)
Shannon Brown (not really a PG)
Luke Ridnour
Chris Duhon
Steve Blake
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Brown has a PO for next season
And he’s not a point guard, which has been painfully evident to Laker Nation for the entirety of this season.
Lowry is probably the best of the bunch, although the fact he can’t shoot well isn’t helpful for this team. I’d wager Houston matches any reasonable offer in any case.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
ugh
Blake – I never understood why we let him go. It’s very similar to the Ben Wallace thing. Granted, he’s not the impact player Wallace was, but they were both unheralded players who showed their potential here, only to blossom somewhere else.
Lowry would be OK, and Felton wouldn’t be bad either. Bynum would be nice to have on our side, (Christ he scares me whenever we play Detroit. He would be an all star if he could play against the Wizards every game) but I don’t view him as a true PG.
I'm not a big Blake fan
He belongs playing off a star, not creating anything.
Bynum and Lowry would be great. Big fan of Lowry. We should be looking for a young guy.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Livingston's not an "efficient scorer" now, but who's to say he can't improve his shooting ability over the summer.
I mean Jamison wasn’t a 3 point shooter when he entered the league— or even during his first few seasons…but he developed a downtown shot after much practice.
the forgotten man...
I think, in time, that Livingston could play a role similar to the one Antonio Daniels used
to play. A lot of the times, he and Gilbert would be in the backcourt together. I can’t
really see Arenas as anything but a starting point. A little too short to be a two-guard
and not as explosive as a Dwayne Wade, but big enough to be a load at the point.
The forgotten man is Javaris Crittenton!! Another talented young point if he comes back.
Wonder what the Wizards will do with him.

by 

















