Briefing: Wizards' youth falls just short in overtime
by Jake Whitacre on Feb 27, 2010 11:15 AM EST
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Wizards lose to Knicks in overtime, 118-116 - Gene Wang, Washington Post
Washington had a chance to win in regulation when Mike Miller's driving layup with 1:08 to play put the Wizards ahead, 110-109, and brought much of the announced 17,408 to their feet. Washington instead was fortunate to force overtime when Foye's 20-foot jumper rattled around the rim, bounced above it and then fell through the twine to tie the game at 112. McGee then blocked a potential game-winning shot by Wilson Chandler with 1.9 seconds remaining.
Knicks Edge Wizards In Overtime - Dave Johnson, CSN Washington
It was an ugly overtime. The Wizards and Knicks combined to shoot 3 of 16 from the field, but David Lee scored with 1.6 seconds left to secure the win. Lee was able to drive down the left side of the lane and finish a lay-up with his left-hand while being closely guarded by the Wizards JaVale McGee. "When I got by him, I just tried to find his body so he couldn’t unload on me and block the shot and I was able to score," Lee said of his drive on McGee. "Anybody else would go up high or dunk the ball, but with McGee I knew I had to find his body and put a shoulder on his shoulder to stop some of his momentum." "I tried to block his (David Lee) shot and I feel like nine times out of ten I’m going to block that shot," McGee added. "He put it right in the right spot and I just missed it."
Knicks 118, Wizards 116 OT - Craig Stouffer, Washington Examiner
McGee suffers from no shortage of heart or determination or willingness. But until he adds defensive discipline and toughness to his resume, there’s no reason for the opposition to run anything fancy offensively. The play, "Run at McGee and if you get blocked once, you probably won’t the second time," is perfectly sufficient all by itself to snap New York's eight-game losing streak. "[McGee] has a tendency when a guy’s head up with him, and he’s facing the guy, he doesn’t want to contest those shots," said Saunders. "He wants to try and contest from the side because there’s no contact from the side. You’re going to get hit. He’s got to learn to get more where he can take a guy head on and contest from that area."
Lee's layup in OT ends Knicks' losing streak at 8 - Associated Press
Washington, now 3-3 since the trades of Caron Butler(notes) and Antawn Jamison(notes), was led by Andray Blatche(notes), who had 26 points and a career-high 18 rebounds and nearly had a dubious triple-double. He committed eight turnovers. "This is all new for me," Blatche said. "I’ve never been the go-to guy."
Blatche has huge game in Wizards loss - Matt Kremnitzer, Krem's Sports Blog
[Andray scored] 26 points (on 11-21 shooting), grabbing 18 rebounds, and even dishing out six assists in 51(!) minutes. According to Basketball-Reference.com, since 1986-1987, only seven other players have put together games of at least 26-18-6 while playing at least 50 minutes: Michael Jordan, Joe Barry Carroll, Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming, and Richard Jefferson. To narrow the list even more, only two players on that list (besides Blatche) shot over 50 percent in their respective games: Jordan and Shaq.
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this will probably be
a recurring theme, but I am not upset with this loss. We competed to the end, played hard, our young guys showed improvement. AND they put on tape exactly hat they have to work on. Blatche needs to cut down on the dribbling, McGee needs to hold his ground, Thornton needs to cut down on the cheap fouls, and Young needs, well, a lot. But at least he hit the 3 to keep us in the game at the end of regulation. Truthfully, I think the game would’ve gone differently if Singleton hadn’t gone out. He would’ve slowed Harrington down a little more than the other guys.
This is exactly how I’d love for the rest of the season to go. Compete, play hard, let the young guys progress, but keep us near the top of the lottery.
McGee needs work...
…but I’ve seen him grow substantially since getting more consistent run. Most impressively, he seems willing to hustle and take charges, which says a lot about his character and commitment to his predefined role as a defensive-minded, energy guy. And those blocks! Sure, he gambles on them from time to time and gives up relatively easy buckets. But seeing him block the snot out of balls and watching them fly into the 10th row is fun as hell.
Offensively, one thing’s for sure: he needs to lay off on those sky hooks until he’s got some more practice under his belt. Eeesh!
by dogshammdog on Feb 27, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
yeah miles to go for him
but the PT can only help. there are small improvements. it is also clear to EVERYONE watching (therefore should be to mcgee as well) that post defense is the single biggest area of improvement for him. here’s hoping he works his ass off on that, and that the coaches take time to teach. that’s what the remainder of this lost season can accomplish, hopefully.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Feb 27, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
yep
Great to see him stepping up to the PT, at least on the stat sheet. We’re seeing flashes of what was so exciting about him last year. Keep the minutes consistent and let’s see if he can grow into the minutes (figuratively and literally).
Good, good signs.
i agree...
but this young team looks a whole lot more promising than the 17-win one last year. I think a lot of the credit should go to Dray. I love watching this kid.
At this point theres the only power forward i would rather have moving forward and that is Chris Bosh. And I think Blatche can put up his type of numbers over a whole season within the next 2 years if he continues playing like this.
Blatche can really end up being a top 5 PF next year. His only weakness right now is his upper body strength and he doesn’t have much experience being a number one option and dealing with double teams. His natural passing ability and shooting touch makes me want him more than a guy like Josh Smith, because I cant see Josh shouldering the scoring load if he had too every game. Guys like Duncan and Garnett and Nowitzki are getting older, so there’s no way i would take one of them. Blatche is playing better on the offensive end than Garnett right now anyway.
Pau is good but i wouldnt want him either. Too old to build around at this point. Guys like Zbo, Boozer, David West, Kevin Love, David Lee, Kenyon Martin are all like Jamison….undersized PF’s, good scorers, good [great] rebounders, not much D.
Again, if Blatche keeps playing the way he is now, itd even be hard to give him up for Amare or Lamarcus Aldridge. Dray has higher ceilings than either of those guys. Lamarcus wont ever be able to handle the rock like Dray, and Dray is also the better passer. Id be worried about Amare’s health but again you know what you are going to get out of him. He is better than all of those guys in the paragraph above, but his post d might be worse than all of theirs, except Jamison.
Actually, after reading over my own thoughts, I just pretty much made Blatche as untouchable as it gets. What does everyone else think? The only PF I would take for Blatche straight up is Bosh. What about yall?
I'm not so sure...
…. do you take someone who hasn’t played a minute in the NBA versus someone who has 4 years experience, and is rapidly proving to be a 20+ PPG 10 RPG player?
i'm with you about 85%
what really helps is blatche’s age + contract. very much a great bargain with upside. watching him recently, you realize that he has an almost unlimited skill set. as you point out, his handle is an advantage over most other guys, and he has good range on his jumper – i don’t even cringe when he takes a long shot anymore, and his 3’s are usually due to shot clock issues. and, while he doesn’t always come across as the brightest guy, i think he has an innate basketball sense that cannot be coached.
but he’s simply got to keep proving it over time, and put in the work to get stronger and in better shape.
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Feb 27, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, contract contract contract
To build a contender, you need to unearth players who are worth more than their contracts. 2 more years of Blatche at ~$2.5 mil? That’s a flat-out steal.
Uhh
Interesting question. Here’s my list.
-Josh Smith
-Blake Griffin
-Pau
-Love
-Mayybe LaMarcus Aldridge (I flip-flop on him every day)
-Bosh
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'd agree with most of that list
Except possibly Josh Smith (too unpredictable)….. and perhaps Pau Gasol (yeah, he’s better now, but he’s also got a lot of miles on him… and combine that with Blatche’s age and contract and it’s not even close).
Actually, of all the big men in the League right now…. Blatche’s stats over the last 6 games (26ppg, 11 rebounds, 3.5 assists) ; there’s only ONE player that comes close – and that’s Bosh.
I don’t think Andray can keep up that pace…. but I do think he’s a 20ppg, 8 rpg type player….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I'll give y'all Aldridge because of the price
He’s Blatche, except older and more expensive. That was silly.
Josh Smith, however, is having an insane year (22.4 PER, 55% TS%, 14.7 REB%, 19.1 AST%! 101 DRtg, the highest on the team by far, and the Hawks are a ridiculous 16.1 points/100 possession better with him on the court) for one of the best teams in the East. He’s also 24. He has a reputation for being a bit of a head case, but a lot of it was spurred by overblown Peter Vescey reporting. No question I take him over Dray.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Josh is a great player…great D, awesome dunks, and now he doesnt even shoot the long ball. Hes plying great. But he plays around a lot of talent. I cant see him being a go-to guy. Maybe im wrong. The hawks do run a lot of stuff through him, and he is very underrated passer, probably better than Blatche. If Joe Johnson leaves the Hawks it will end up being Josh’s team. I would be interested to see him as a #1 option. If he developed a consistent midrange jumper like Amare has done he’d be a terror.
You're probably right about him being a go-to guy
But Smith affects the game in so many ways, like you mentioned. As good as Blatche could become, I don’t see him doing as much as Smith does to affect a game.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
you're right
I forgot about Josh Smith. I’d definitely take him. No, he’s not a “go-to” guy, but he can affect the game in so many ways without having plays run for him. Look, I don’t wanna sound like I’m piling on Blatche, because I’m not. I love the way he’s playing. But I’m not sure we would want him as our “go-to” guy anyway. Not as a first option, at least. Maybe he could be that guy (he hasn’t done anything to dispel the notion), but I want to know if he can get these numbers on a playoff team, or if he’s just getting them because there is no one else to get them.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to minimalize what Blatche is doing. There’s no doubt he’s earning these numbers. But there are plenty of guys on bad teams who don’t have the same effect when they’re on good teams.
very funny nick young just need more time to shine nick is the only real player a bad team dre is not a leader are a good player, hell play young the same amount of minute and young would have a hundred point’s mcgee is just retarted
straight talk
by Mae.jude@yahoo.com on Feb 27, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
for reals?
C’mon, Young has played his way into late-bench status. Kid has been ice-cold all year, and hasn’t made any strides on defense or passing.
I wish him well on another team, but he clearly isn’t going to work out here.
young just need time and get all those other bum’s out of young way so nick can play the only way that nick young know how to play with freedom to shine and create and c.jhutchie you do not know basketball you just like want a bee
straight talk
by Mae.jude@yahoo.com on Feb 27, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
what the hell?
First of all, I have no idea why you called me out? Hell, I was one of the few guys on here still holding out hope for Young. And yes, I said WAS. I still think he has a ton of talent and athleticism. But he doesn’t have the drive to make himself better. That’s more obvious now than ever.
And as for this
you do not know basketball you just like want a bee
That’s the goofiest thing I’ve ever heard. I don’t want to get into a tit-for-tat here, so I won’t take your bait. All I’ll say is that if you said that to ANYBODY who knows me, you’d get your feelings hurt from being laughed at so much.
Oh, and I have two kids and a dog, so I DEFINITELY don’t “want a bee.”
Love over Blatche, are you kidding?
I can see the case for the other players on your list. But Kevin Love? Seriously?
Kevin Love’s stats are decent (PPG 15.3 RPG 11.30 APG 2.3 ), but his upside is nowhere near Blatche’s, not even in the same universe. As a starter, Blatche is averaging 19.3 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 3.2 APG, and 1.5 BPG. Blatche is far more defensively gifted than Love, who is laterally challenged.
Blatche has a better shot of making he All Star game in his career before Love does.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Love, but he has a limited upside.
Love's the kind of guy whose ability doesn't shine through in traditional stats
Minnesota’s way better with him on the court, and they don’t give him enough minutes for some reason. That he doesn’t get Blatche’s minutes is criminal. You can’t cite per-game stats to prove your point because Blatche is getting way more minutes and touches with nobody else there, while Love has to share court time with Al Jefferson, who dominates the ball.
Look at advanced stats. This year, Love has a 22.8 PER (only Bosh is better), a 56.7% true shooting percentage (Blatche is at 53.5% this year, which is by far a career high). He’s grabbing 21.5% of available rebounds (Blatche is at 13.6%), and the Timberwolves as a team grab 4.6% more available rebounds with Love on the court than off (which is a ridiculous number for just one player). There’s really no comparison.
The fact that he plays 30 minutes per game has to do with dumb Minnesota coaches. Nothing else.
Also, Love is 21. Blatche is 23. Why again does Love have limited upside again?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
why does Love have a limted upside? where shall I start...
First of all, Love’s positives are high basketball IQ, great passer (especially cutters), improving mid-range jumper, and a solid defensive rebounder.
But, on the downside (epecially when compared to Dray), he lacks athleticism and size for your typical NBA power foward. He is 6’7.75" without shoes. (Dray is 6’11’). You can’t teach height.
Love can be a liability defensively, and cannot guard your better NBA power forwards one-on-one (unlike Blatche, who has the athleticism to guard 3’s, 4’s, and 5’s). And he’s laterally challenged, which only worsens with age.
At best, Love will be an average NBA defender. Dray has the potential to be a great NBA defender (but needs more bulk in his upper body).
He lacks conditioning, which is probably one of the reason’s he doesn’t get enough minutes. (That is the knock on Blatche as well, but he played 51 minutes last night).
Because of his lack of size, length, athleticism, and footspeed, he doesn’t have the same upside potential has AB.
Ask yourself this: With the game tied with under 1 minute to play, who would you want matched man-to-man on Chris Bosh or Kevin Garnett: Love or Blatche? Not even a close call.
The question was do you make the swap straight-up AB for Love right now? In my mind, the answer is clearly “no”.
and please don't argue that "Larry Bird lacked athleticism..."
Bird was one of the top five greatest basketball players in NBA history. Love isn’t Bird, not even in his wildest dreams.
Uhh
1. Love’s wingspan is over 6’11, which is quite okay for an NBA power forward. Height’s not important, wingspan is. You don’t play basketball only to the top of your head.
2. Love is not a defensive liability at all – the Timberwolves defend better with him on the floor than off it. You’re projecting that based on looking at him, when in reality he doesn’t hurt you on that end. For example, one thing that gets unnoticed about Love is that he never fouls. He averages just 2.8 fouls/36 minutes, whereas Blatche is way up there at 4.3. Blatche may seem more athletic, but Love does a much better job of playing positional defense and not ruining possessions by fouling. If you throw Love in the game for 40 minutes, you don’t have to worry much about foul trouble, whereas you would with Dray.
The defensive liability on the Timberwolves is Jefferson, not Love.
3. Again, Love doesn’t play a lot of minutes because his coaches are idiots. It has nothing to do with conditioning. They’ve pigeonholed him (kind of like you have, ironically) and ignore all the positive things he does on the court, things that are reflected in a) his advanced stats and b) watching them. They also have to give Jefferson minutes because he’s their highest-salaried player and they have to justify him being that way. Besides, like you said, Dray’s conditioning needs work.
The bottom line here is that Love does way more for his team that Dray does. Forget buzzwords like “athleticism,” “basketball IQ,” etc. Hell, forget your hypothetical, because it’s just one situation in a basketball game that requires you to succeed in many situations. I could throw out another one: who would you rather have running a screen-and-roll with your guard with the game on the line? I’ll take the guy who sets stronger picks, plays smart and rolls harder to the hoop. Both situations are equally essential to winning.
The bottom line is Love is younger, more productive, and a bigger contributor in the areas that are essential to winning, but that aren’t easy to spot. This is reflected in his outstanding advanced stats and his effect on the team’s play. “Athleticism” has nothing to do with it.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Realized I was a bit harsh in saying you were pigeonholding and projecting
My apologies.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Love...
… has lots of positives, and is a solid NBA player.. I basically agreed with all of your possible player swaps for AB— they all make sense. I’ll refrain from using buzzwords like “athleticism”, but Blatche has more natural basketball talent— especially on the defensive end. Love will never be more than an average defender. Because of this, the nod goes to AB. One man’s opinion.
by CVC on Feb 27, 2010 5:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Something I want to write about
is Blatch’s huge increased efficiency since he was made the starter…. I know it’s an extremely small sample size, but Blatche has put up better numbers in the last 6 games….
And it has NOTHING to do with just playing more minutes… His shooting percentage is up (from 54% to 59%)…. his per 40 minutes points and rebounds are up… AND is foul rate is down….
Again, it’s an extremely small sample size, but using only the stats from the last 6 games, the only player that stacks up to what Blatche is doing is Chris Bosh….
I haven’t looked at any advanced stats yet…. but since the Wizards are winning, and the defense “looks” better than when Blatche was on the bench (ie: it passes the eye test) – I’d expect his on/off numbers and other advanced stats to show the same improvement we’ve seen in his TS%, Rebounding rate and foul rates.
I’ll concede that Love does a lot of things that don’t show up in the stats (he sets solid screens, he boxes out, he’s great on the PnR, he hustles, etc…) – but I’d still take the CURRENT 6 GAME VERSION of Andray over Love….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
and even after saying all of that
It would take only one really stupid mistake (and Andray is very capable of making that one really, really stupid mistake) to set him back to what he was last year.
Kevin Love, even if he’s not as physically gifted as Andray, has those intangibles that a Coach cannot teach …. High Basketball IQ (dude seems to always be in the right spot), high activity level, and unparalleled work ethic.
So – Three weeks from now, if Andray comes back down to earth – and is “settling” for (and missing) long-range jumpers, is inconsistent on defense, and we start to see that knuckleheadedness we know he possesses – I probably would change my mind and go with Love….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
I'm a fan of Kevin Love
so I’m not going to spend a lot to time trying to bash the guy to make a point. But the original question was all based around AB’s recent play so I will just touch on your last paragraph.
Age is kind of superflous at this stage concerning these two so unless I needed an absolute tie breaker this would be a moot point.
Again, within the framework of the question, Love has not been more productive than AB, enough people have posted stats that I will leave it at that.
Love does do little things well to help a team, but you need to be on the court to do those things. I know you don’t like this argument, but the simple fact is Love isn’t playing any more minutes than he did in college. It’s easy to say it’s the coaches fault and that his conditioning is fine, and that might turn out to be true, but until he does it on a regular basis it’s still all speculation.
I’ve always been a Kevin Love fan and would love to have him on my team, but would I trade AB right now to get him…no.
CVC...have you watched Love Play?
He plays like a 10 yr vet at 21. Very efficient..great passer out of the blocks.
Plus Al is stealing his minutes.
Stats aren’t everything….look at Gil :-)
usually i agree with you JD, but im just not sold on KLove. Hes basically David Lee 2.0. I cant see the guy ever becoming a good defender. Ill take Blatche on upside.
Love defends better than Lee
This whole “Love is a bad defender” thing is such a myth. He’s not great, and Blatche has more defensive potential, but he’s not David Lee. The Timberwolves can’t play defense because Al Jefferson can’t play defense.
Love’s also a better passer, defensive rebounder, screen-setter, and shooter.
Perhaps this will drive the point home. Here is a list of inside players (6’9’’ or above) under 21 who have put up PERs higher than 22.
-Shaq (twice)
-Bosh
-Terry Cummings
-Tim Duncan
-Andrew Bynum
-Love
Dude’s good.
-
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I never said Love is the truth or better than blatche...but explaining those stats are deceptive
and explaining his bball IQ at 21 is amazing.
i must confess..
I saw him play more at UCLA than with the T-wolves. Listen, I’m not hating on the guy. I’d love to have him on the Wizards. But if it took giving up AB, I wouldn’t do it.
by CVC on Feb 27, 2010 5:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hmm
The only player(s) I would swap straight up, at this immediate moment, for AB would be Bosh and, possibly(but probably not), Smith.
Griffin needs to prove he can do it during the regular season and stay healthy, regardless of his upside, before I would give up AB.
Love is very good, but he’s coming off the bench and isn’t playing over 30 minutes a game…AB has much more upside too.
Only reason to trade for Amare would be if we were a piece away from a serious title run.
Aldridge shrug, to me they are similar and really present no reason to swap.
Yep, AB for Bosh would be the only swap that would make sense.
I bet other GM’s in the league are trying to figure out how to trick the Wizards into giving up Dray. I could see someone going to Ernie saying “hey, we’ll pick up Gil’s bloated contract if you throw in Dray.”
I hope and pray that the Wizards don’t fall for any bad deals, like they did when they threw in Haywood for basically nothing.
Can Foye be our point guard?
He still has the combo guard mentality of trying to balance shooting and scoring in a fluid fashion. Did very very well yesterday…but can he really evolve enough to be our playmaker? I hate that he doesn’t pass on pick and roll…same with Boykins. And he takes way too long to decipher the defense and thus holds the ball too long. But at least he’s patient instead of forcing. Demonstrated by his great assist to turnover ratio. He’s has a top ten ratio since he began starting Dec 22nd.
The dude has Reggie Miller type 3 ball…would love to have a true pg feeding him the rock if we can.
I'm wondering the same thing
More 10-assist nights would go a long way to convincing me we should keep him, but they also need to come against teams other than NY. Teams with, y’know, defense.
Hence I am preemptively discounting his performance tomorrow against the Nets.
The dude has Reggie Miller type 3 ball
Did you watch Reggie when he played? Foye has nothing at all in common with Miller. Foye is a good open 3 shooter. Miller did it with guys in his face. At all the key moments. Miller was a top 50 player. Foye is a good role player. Compare him to Kerr instead.
by MR on Feb 27, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Steve Kerr was slower and couldn't create off the dribble, very bad example
Plus he sank a sweet jumper with somebody in his grille last night with a few seconds left in the game.
I’m just saying he has very sweet 3 ball. I didn’t say his entire game resembles Reggie Miller. Can he come off screens, can he knock clutch shots in front of Spike Lee like him….did I say that?
Relax. Just said his 3 ball is sweet. And sometimes you don’t have to be a knifer slicer in the lane to be a productive 2 guard in this league.
nick young
you can’t give a player inconsistent time and expect consistence results.
straight talk
by Mae.jude@yahoo.com on Feb 27, 2010 5:38 PM EST reply actions
You arent reading my responses.
You need to understand Nick Young has been given consistent minutes at times. He does not contribute in enough aspects of the game to deserve consistent minutes. The only thing he can do is score the basketball. Thats the ONLY thing he is useful for.
If Nick plays well Flip always rewards him the next game with big minutes. Many times he plays poorly the following game. Just look at his game log. Its obvious what type of player he is just by looking at that. He is a guy that can come off the bench to score and if he heats up is a big boost.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nick_young/game_by_game_stats.html
well - i agree with your assessment of Nick Young
but i will say, i am not so sure these game log stats support you. There are several of these in there:
Nov 27 @ MIA W 94 – 84 37 10 – 23 0 – 3 2 – 4 2 2 4 5 0 0 3 3 22
Nov 24 vs. PHI W 108 – 107 32 8 – 16 2 – 4 2 – 2 1 3 4 2 0 0 1 4 20
Nov 20 @ OKC L 108 – 127 1 0 – 1 0 – 1 0 – 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 straight wins (@Miami and PHI) – Nick has 22 and 20, plays 37 and 32 mins, and then plays 1 minute the next game against OKC.
Again, this happens several times in the data…so its not like one bad practice after bigger games caused it. Strange.
Yeah
But even I, the most strident Nick Young supporter, have to agree that he’s had enough time to develop – even given the fact that he’s never been given steady minutes – you can’t attribute his lack of development entirely on that… After all, it’s been 4 years now. Even with inconsistent minutes; 4-years is a LOT of inconsistent minutes.
I have a feeling that Nick needs to be traded to get better.
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