Thoughts on the new wiz so far and what should we do with Gillie next year?
by tw10 on Feb 23, 2010 5:45 PM EST
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The Wizards have been playing a new brand of basketball recently.
I figured that after all the trade we would just see and improved version of last year's injury decimated team. Boy, was i WRONG.
We are playing inspired basketball right now. I haven't had so much fun watching the Wizards since the arrival of the Big Three.
who knows, maybe
Thoughts on the players so far(I know its only been a couple games)
Andray Blatche - Dude has playing like an All-Star. These past 4 games he has looked better than Antawn, IMO. He might not be able to rebound like 'Tawn, but i the fact that he is an actual defensive presence in the post makes up for that. I love his offensive game. The thing about Gil and 'Tawn is that it seems like they have their minds made up when they get the ball and they are either going to pass or shoot. Blatche seems like a much more fluid basketball player. I love the fact that he is a willing passer out of the post. His inside/outside game is really fun to watch and he has got to have some of the best handles in the league for someone his size.
James Singleton --Reminds me of the Chris Anderson out in Denver, except he can shoot the ball a little. I love the energy this guy brings on both ends of the floor. Terrific hustle player. I know a lot of us here at BulletsForever already love the guy.
Josh Howard--didnt take long for him to get hurt did it? its disappointing, to say the least. what i saw from the guy, i liked. Good luck in the future Josh, because i doubt anyone wants to see the Wizards sign another injury prone guy.
Al Thornton--Really likes to shoot. Id like to see him get to the line more often, but i like what im seeing out of him so far. Clipper fans had us expecting he was going to be taking mid-range jumpers all day. He has been agressive so far. He is probably going to start now since Howard got hurt, but next year id rather see him come off the bench as a guy who can come in and give us some instant offense.
Mike Miller--ive always been a big fan of Mike Miller. I love his game. However, we have a young team and i think we shouldnt offer him anything more than a 1 year deal. If he wants something longer, let him walk.
Randy Foye --mediocre point gaurd, better as an off gaurd. I think itd be wise to resign this guy to give us some depth. not a great player but he is solid.
Earl Boykins -i liked him the first couple games but not much after that. everyone here blasts him for how much he dribbles, and im not gonna argue. Hes a good guy, but i would prefer not to see him in a wizards uni next year.
JaVale McGee --Steadily improving. Glad hes getting some major burn. But i just cant see him adding too much size to his frame. I think Worst Case Scenario right now for this guy is a better version of Ryan Hollins.
Quinton Ross--upgrade over stevenson on the defensive end, but i think he'll be just as inefficient on the offensive end.
Nick Young -After the Miami game where he outplayed Dwayne Wade i really thought he was gonna keep playing well. Well, he hasn't. Hes basically the same player he was last year. He doesn't seem to display a good basketball IQ, and when he gets the ball it seems like there's a 50% chance he's gonna shoot it or turn it over. At this point, i really cant see him improving much more. He's the type of guy that will have five to fifteen double digit scoring games a season. He has never been much of a playmaker. With his athleticism, i see no reason why he cant be every bit as good of a defender as Quinton Ross. But he's not. I guess the wizards will just have to decide if they want to keep this kind of guy on the roster. I think Al Thornton makes him expendable. Let him walk.
First off, let me say I like Gilbert as a person. I think the whole gun incident was blown out of proportion and i think its pathetic that the New York Times flat out LIED about what happened and some people now have the wrong perception of Gil. Gil is a good dude.
At the same time what he did was stupid. You cant bring guns into a workplace or school, PERIOD. I'm sure he knew he wasn't allowed to have guns at the Wizards facility.
As for the basketball side of things, its a different story. I haven't ever been a big fan of Gil's game. Sure i loved his game winners and his big scoring games, but overall i always thought he was a ball hog and i never thought he was much of a playmaker. Sure he averaged 7 assists this year, but that was really the result of him having the ball in his hands so much. What I've always disliked most about Gil is is horrid defense. I don't think there is one guy in the league he can guard off the dribble, especially now with his bum knee. It also didn't help that he had a guy like Antawn Jamison behind him who didn't block a shot his entire time here in Washington.
I think Gil is a good player, but he's just not worth the amount of money we are paying him. I'll always wonder what Ernie was thinking when he re-signed a 1 legged man to a 100+ contract. What's worse is they payed him a SIGNIFICANTLY larger amount than the Warriors.
If we continue playing the way we are playing, I think we should draft a point guard(Malcolm Delaney, Virginia Tech, from Baltimore---or Vasquez) and not play Gil next year. I dont think his game will help us win. We need to give him away if we have to. Get rid of Gil and sit on the cap room. Bring some local stars back to town!!!!Carmelo Anthony(not likely, but i can dream)!!!! Kevin Durant(again, more dreaming)! Micheal Beasley! Jeff Green! Rudy Gay! Keith Bogans?!?!
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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I wonder about the Knicks...
as a potential trade partner for Gil. I saw Walsh make a few comments after the locker room debacle and wonder if he would have interest in acquiring Gil to help entice 2010 free agents.
Maybe send Gil and Cleveland’s first to the Knicks for Gallinari, Sergio Rodriguez, and Eddy Curry. The Knicks would have Gil and the room to pursue two max deals. We get major cap relief in 2011 and two prospects. Cleveland’s pick helps soften the blow of taking on Gil’s long deal, losing two prospects, and not having their own first for the Knicks.
Our roster in 2010 would be Foye, Rodriguez, Young, Gallinari, Thornton, Singleton (cheap re-sign), Blatche, McGee, and Curry’s expiring contract. Plus we’d still have our own lottery pick and two 2nd round picks. Also, shedding Gil’s deal might lessen the financial considerations of picking up Josh Howard’s option to use his expiring deal as an asset.
After letting that lineup play out, we’ll probably have picked up a nice piece by dealing our expirings, we will likely have another lottery pick in 2011, and probably plenty of cap space to pursue someone like Carmelo. Trading Gil now might net us the type of Pau Gasol deal that helped Memphis rebuild.
I forgot about
Vladimir Veremeenko and Emir Preldzic. Might make sense to bring over the foreigners to begin a post-Gilbert era.
hahahaha no way the knicks include galinari in any deal for arenas
I would take Arenas + Cavs 1st round pick for Curry straight up. Hell, if we keep winning, and wind up with a low lottery pick, I’d trade our pick + Arenas for Curry.
The salaries will not have to match up because the Knicks will be so far under the cap.
Gilbert Arenas’ contract is the worst in the league. Anything we get in return won’t be as bad.
by John Park Williams on Feb 24, 2010 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
Let's be careful about revisionist history
Depends on what you call “significant”….
What’s worse is they payed him a SIGNIFICANTLY larger amount than the Warriors.
The Warriors offered Gil a max contract. $100 Million over 5 years. Grunfeld offered the same contract, except over a 6-year period ($123 Million)…… Gil settled for less… $111 Million over 6 years.
$100 Million over 5-years (average $20 Million per year) is SIGNIFICANTLY more than $111 over 6-years (average $18.5 Million) – when you look at it from a per year basis….
Did Gil take a “significant” cut to play with the Wizards? yes…. if you call $12 Million over 6 years “significant” (he could have demanded, and accepted a max $123 Million, 6-year contract)
I asked this question back when this occurred….. and no one could answer….. Has any other NBA star, besides Tim Duncan, taken less money on a contract renewal than was offered?
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
You're exactly on point except:
Wiz offered $127M and Gil declined $16M
Agree on everyone and everything but Especially GA.
We MUST get rid of him somehow, some way. He’s gotta go even if we can’t void his contract. Anyone who thinks he is going to change his game on account of turning over a new leaf is smoking crack. He is THE primary reason this team has been blown up. We need to complete the process. Yes, he’s a scoring machine, but his % has been dropping across the board even on FT’s and that’s usually a pattern that doesn’t reverse itself. Also, because he has bad knees, he’ll never be the unstoppable slashing scorer in crunch time that he once was. I believe the front office was just playing politics by saying it was behind GA. If they are serious, then they gotta go too. I’m not saying anything about GA as a person or even his effect on the locker room and young players in particular which I think everyone knows is a negative one. I’m saying he is not a good fit on a rebuilding team that needs a new identity. Hopefully we can trade him for something slightly better than a bag of rocks to a team in need of a scorer. I see the near-future Wiz as being a very young, hungry, fast, defense-minded, deep team with perhaps (since we’ll have huge cap-space if we get rid of GA) a star FA (or two) in his prime added to the mix. If we keep GA, that future vision is not going to happen.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Stale
I disagree that Arenas is the primary reason for the blowup. The blowup would have happened – or at least should have happened – whether the gun incident happened or not.
And whatever one thinks of Grunfeld, his assessment that the team and locker room had gotten “stale” was spot on. The staleness (is that a word?) began last season and magnified this season. And Gilbert hasn’t been responsible for that simply because he hasn’t been around.
I’m a fan of Jamison, Butler, Haywood and Stevenson, but in varying degrees they’ve been more responsible for the team’s identity over the past couple of seasons than Arenas. The fact that things have changed so dramatically since they were moved proves that point.
Personally, my preference would be to move Arenas if the deal were right, but otherwise to welcome him back onto the team otherwise. I actually don’t think his personality/history won’t weigh down the team nearly as much as Jamison, Butler, Haywood and Stevenson did, because of their desperate need for a change of scenery. And clearly this team needed new blood to get an opportunity (like Blatche and McGee), and Arenas won’t get in the way of that as much as Jamison/Haywood did.
by Johnnie Futbol on Feb 24, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I dont get what you are saying
Even if the gun incident never happened, the Wizards were not playing good basketball. Ernie Grunfeld would have made the trades whether the gun incident happened or not because the Wizards were 14-30 and showing no signs of life.
Arenas is supposed to be the star player. He is partly to blame for the losses. I think his poor play and antics were the main reason Grunfeld decided the team needs to move in a new direction.
Even if the gun incident never happened, the Wizards were not playing good basketball. Ernie Grunfeld would have made the trades whether the gun incident happened or not because the Wizards were 14-30 and showing no signs of life.
I sure hope so. This supports Johnnie’s point.
I think his poor play and antics were the main reason Grunfeld decided the team needs to move in a new direction.
This doesn’t. You can’t have it both ways.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Feb 24, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
okay....
im saying the team was not playing well, and I am blaming it mostly on Gilbert becuase he is the biggest star on the team, and the #1 option on offense. does that make sense to you
That clarifies things a little
It sounded like you were saying his antics were the reason they moved on while also saying it has nothing to do with the antics.
I tend to hate the “he’s the highest-paid player, so he’s to blame” analysis, which is why I’ve been a bit flippant in responding to you. I prefer a full-picture analysis that Johnnie put forward.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That's not to say you're being unreasonable
But I strongly believe you’re not putting enough stock into all the other factors surrounding this team.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree, there is a lot of factors involved in the team's lack of success
And I probably shouldn’t talk like the mainstream media and blame it all on one guy.
I used to bash ‘Tawn a lot more than i did Arenas. I used to say he was overrated a lot. Having some good defenders in the post can mask some defensive problems on the perimeter. Again, I loved Antawn and he played his heart out but he he was just not a good defender. He could rebound, but other than that he never did much to contribute on defense. He wasnt much of an on-ball defender and didnt do much as help defender. He’s pretty much like David Lee in that regard.
A lot of this animosity towards Gil really comes from my high hopes for this season. It’s frustrating to feel like we were right there.
I thought about why the team didn’t have more success in previous years and why we were so bad this year, and I think the biggest flaw was in the construction of the team. Someone said this before, but your best three players should not all have the same weakness. For the Wizards big three the problem was defense.
The previous strength of our team was offense. This year, we really had trouble scoring the rock. Arenas was quick to point out that other people on the team(Caron, specifically) had different agendas but at the same time, it looked to me as if he was also only out there to “get his”. Jamison seemed to play the same way, too.
So I will go back on what i said and agree with you. There are other reasons that this team lacked success.
Alright, now we're talking!
I definitely agree with the roster construction point.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
If we had trouble scoring
You should look at Caron – not Arenas. Caron is the one who played truly putrid. Obviously, Arenas was not Agent Zero of lore, but he was rounding back into All-Star shape before the tabloid that is the NYP ran with that article. Did he contribute to some early loses? Yep no doubt. But the major culprit was Butler. That is to say, I think Gilbert still can score and his stats back this up. His stats plus his trends (knowing hid medical history).
Plus, our biggest weakness right now is at the 1/5. Gilbert takes care of one of those areas.
the ball movement was a part of that. I laughed when i read Bill Simmons article and he called GIl a 0-gaurd, a point gaurd who is at his best when he iso’s and everyone else just watches. But its true, thats when GIl is at his best. He was never a great playmaker. What sucks is that GIls knee injuries has definently taken away from his explosiveness and wont ever be able to attack the basket like he used too…i cant see him returning to the days where he’d shoot 15-18 free throws often.
Dysfunctional
is a better descriptive.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Gilby will be traded...100% sure
Leonsis will get a gentleman’s agreement that he get traded just like he wanted cap space cleared.
Ernie is being smart by not throwing Gilby under the bus. He’s saying he’s a 23 and 7 guard and is still part of the Wizards. Just trying to promote Gilbert as a very good star player, so he still has leverage during a trade. He will promote him as a great player that just needs a breath of fresh air, and the wizards are going a different direction. Eventhough we know that he’s a no defense, ball hog, gimpy, selfish combo guard…..there are many moronic gm’s out there that just look at stats and see that 23 and 7 is good on paper and will probably trade for him.
i'm tempted to vote in that poll
but i’m abstaining, b/c i have no idea what you might be able to fetch for gil in a trade. i can’t even speculate. i think what likely will happen is that gil will have to play his way back into being tradeable, like juwan did back in the day.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 24, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions
and if he does that, we might end up keeping him
if he still sells tickets.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 24, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think the only reason to keep him
Is if another star wants to play him him. It Wade/Lebron/Bosh want to play with Gil, a lottery pick, Blatche, and McGee then great. Otherwise void his contract or trade him. Make him feel so unwanted he will not play here, do what it takes to get him out of town.
yeah but..
we’re not gonna get DWade, CBosh or LeCrab.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
remember what kind of player gilbert is
He is the kind of player that always had a chip on his shoulder, being a 2nd round pick, he was driven to prove the doubters wrong. I tend to believe that he will bouce back from this incident and be driven to prove people wrong, that could be through becomming a role model or imporving his game on the court. It is the way he approches the challenge that concerns me, knowing the kind of player gilbert is, he might try to come out and score 40 every night, this would be a negative for our team. But if gilbert figures out that the way to come at the challenge is by being a LEADER and shouldering the team through tough times and bad, that is when he will become the “star” that everyone labled him when he received his contact. Even during the teams sucess, i would never have labled gilbert as a leader. If he comes back and plays for the wizards and thats a big if, i am interested to see how he accepts the challenge.
the guy shits in his team mates shoes because he thinks its funny. good luck with the leadership challenge. move him if you can.
by les boulez bomber on Feb 26, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i dont think he should be a leader
its just not his personality. it never has been.
@for the people-there are a LOT of quality PG’s in the league. I really dont agree with you at all. Teams have always done better with unselfish point guards. Think about teams that have won the NBA championship, and the point gaurds have all been unselfish players. Think Rondo, Fisher, J-Will, Tony Parker(takes a whole lot less shots than Gil), Billups(smarter player than GIl, and he has always been a much better playmaker.), Kerr, Paxson, Zeke,Magic, etc.
I hate to always sound like a GIl basher, but the way he plays doesnt only not make his teammates better, i think it frustrates them and makes them worse. Dallas is a smart team. I think Butler, Haywood, and Stevenson are winning basketball players. They play their roles, but I understand why Butler would get frustrated. He probably felt like if he needed to shoot when he got the rock because Gil and Tawn are also trying to get 20 shots up.
Personally, I just want to see a guy that can distribute the ball play point for us. Foye is pretty much just a poor man’s Gil who doesnt shoot as much. Like Gil, he dribbles way too much and if he was a little taller would probably be a effective wing player.
I just think we need to move past the Gilbert era. Shouldn’t we strive to be more than just above average? Because thats all we are gonna be with him.
i shouldve elaborated more on Dallas getting Butler, DSteve, and Haywood.
They saw what those guys could do when Gil wasnt taking all the shots. And they proabably discussed it and figured with a great passing, WINNING point gaurd like Jason Kidd they would be even better. They arent used to being put in situations where they can score easily. Look at how good Dallas is playing. It’s not a aberration. Haywood and Butler are two starters that they needed. Stevenson even looked good. When this team goes to the finals what are you going to think of Gil? he was our main core player, and we gave him all the help he needed. I know him and Jamison couldnt play a lick of defense, but still. It says they werent good enough to overcome all that.
I think anybody who wants to keep building around GIl is living in the past. We need to move on.
Part of what you said is true.
And If he does come out and try to score 40 every night, i really, really hope Flip has the balls to bench him. And i hope Gil is man enough to accept it. Hopefully what hes going through right now will make him a stronger man.
I have upcoming court date for a felony, and I know its been rough on me. Gil has it a whole lot easier though, so i dont pity him at all. Hes a multi-millionaire. It must be nice not to worry about your finances at all.
This might seem random but it does have something to do with my what im saying. I hate Skip Bayless because i think hes a retard and doesn’t realize how hard it is to be successful at sports, but at the same time i think its great he doesnt care about these athelete’s feelings. They are getting paid millions. I dont think he thinks about it like that, but still.
Keep Gil
PG/C are the toughest position to fill on a roster. Flips offense asks a lot of his PG. All the pgs went in last years draft (side note: have to admit Curry is way better than I thought). The only realistic option in this draft is John Wall and that means the #1 pick. I would love to hear about another PG prospect who is ready to start. If we end up signing an ok FA PG and bring back Randy Foye this team will have another disappointing season.
All the signs were pointing up on Gil. Coming off multiple surgeries his numbers were impressive from the start if not consistent. Now add on top of that learning a new system that puts responsibility on the PG. Still his numbers trended up until the incident. Best case scenario Foye gains enough experience this year to be a good option at backup PG. Flip often said Gil is his prototype PG. He does all the things he asks really well. That hasn’t changed.
I want an angry Gil running the team
If a felon is a good dude,
what constitutes a bad dude? Arenas is a two-time violater. Three, anybody? The dude is a loose cannon, and a bad influence on Young, McGee, etc.
The Wiz have gone young. Arenas is history here.
cmon...
Arenas isn’t a thug. He is not a menace to society.
If am found guilty in my upcoming court case I will be a felon.
Am i menace? I dont want to say yes/no just in case the feds are following my comments on this account, but I’ll say Gilbert is by far a better person than me.
I’ve been around the wrong kind of people, I’ve been in the trap(for all of you out there who dont know what that is, its a place in the hood where the goods are sold). I’m trying to turn my life around. Why do you think I post so much on BF? Im trying to stay out of trouble.
Im sure Gilbert will have no trouble staying out of trouble. How can i say that? just listen to him talk, anyone with experience can tell a genuinely good dude from a bad one.
It depends who decided to keep Arenas
Leonsis will be the owner eventually, perhaps he’s already making decisions at that level. I can’t see him wanting to deal with that mess. Of course, a buyout gets you nothing but poorer. A trade now might get back some practice uniforms. But hold him, play him (once he gets out of jail :D), and somebody will take our refuse for something approaching fair value.
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