Wizards win their third of four since operation demolition
by Mike Prada on Feb 22, 2010 9:37 PM EST
in Recaps
324 comments
Well then, maybe we do have a little something here...
Here's hoping Josh Howard is okay.
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Win!
Great trades.
by Mikko Leinonen's opposite on Feb 22, 2010 9:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wiz are 5-2 this season without Caron Butler
Just saying.
they were 14-30 before gungate
i think the core they had just wasnt working. Butler is 4-1 with Dallas. Im tired of everyone bashing him. dude played his heart out on offense AND defense.
No he did not
Sorry, but it’s now clear that Butler and Jamison WERE the problem.
The current version of the Wizards is playing harder, much better defense and being much more unselfish with the ball.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 22, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
i'll never stop thinking
that flip was just as much of a problem. all of those guys have had success at other times, flip included. butler and jamison will likely succeed in their new spots. it was a horrible fit and that’s it. all of them were inflexible.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 22, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
The Butler/Jamison Wiz were pretty awful under EJ/Tapscott.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 4:52 AM EST up reply actions
butler/jamison/haywood wiz
were pretty good under EJ, with or without arenas.
what say you to that?
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 23, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
you have a lot of similarities with Skip Bayless
with the way you always take the unpopular opinion, and do so emphatically.
I am not saying you are wrong, but you can make the same points without sounding so demonstrative.
Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison were team leaders both on and off the courts. Let the record show that we did in fact lose many, many games with them. But many of us loved them. To label them as mere “problems” is disingenuous.
I do love your unorthodox thinking however. Go Wizards!
by John Park Williams on Feb 23, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
I'll take that as a compliment...
I don’t see how it’s so unorthodox. Last year it was the “young guys” fault, and everyone gave Butler/Jamison a pass for being “professional” while blaming Blatche’s lack of maturity. 1st half of this season, it was Butler being unable to adjust to Flip’s offense. Well Blatche doesn’t look like the problem anymore and now Butler is having trouble adjusting to Rick Carslisle’s offense.
At some point, you just have to call a spade a spade. Maybe Butler is what he is. This from tonight’s ESPN Daily Dime:
The Mavs like the swagger and toughness Butler gives them. At some point, they believe he’ll also provide points in bunches. With the exception of a 20-point performance in Saturday’s win over the Heat, that has yet to happen.
Butler, who shifted to shooting guard in the Mavs’ starting lineup, has struggled to find a rhythm with his new team. That’s understandable, considering the ex-Wizards’ first full practice with the Mavericks will come Tuesday.
“I haven’t even reached the surface of what I’m capable of doing,” said Butler, who has averaged 14.4 points on 37 percent shooting since the trade. “I’m happy that we’re winning and we’re not even all the way clicking yet. That’s a good thing.”
Butler and Jamison were leaders on and off the court, no doubt. But you can also not ignore the fact that under their leadership this team underachieved on an epic level AND quit. They quit, and it would be “disingenuous” to pretend like that didn’t happen under their leadership.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 5:03 AM EST up reply actions
JJ, it's when you throw around things like
“Everyone gave Butler/Jamison a pass” that people start to get tuned off. I don’t know if you were here reading last year, but there were plenty of people getting annoyed at those two.
I think you make good points, but a piece of advice: don’t try to group people together like that on here. We’re more complex.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I for one
disagree with just about every over-simplification in JJ’s post. So blame me.
BTW, I didn’t see either of them quit at all. They sure did fail, but not quit….especially not Jamison.
by MR on Feb 23, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Over simplification
Ironically, I didn’t simplify it enough.
If you didn’t see Caron quit, you weren’t watching closely enough.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I have watched every game this season
I sit about 8 feet from my large screen tv. Is that close enough?
Again, with the slam on Caron
Selfish does not equal quit. It means he was selfish and broke the system, but not that he quit.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
There were lots
and I mean a whole lot of times that Caron Butler quit so badly on defense that it would be embarassing to any junior varsity high school player much less a professional.
Sorry, but if you didn’t see these, you weren’t paying attention. That’s being selfish AND quitting. You can call it a “slam” but I call it an observation and that’s being borne out by looking at the impact of the effort being given by this much less talented version of the Wiz.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe
he just isn’t very good at defense? Or maybe his flaws were exposed by being surrounded by other defensive sieves? If you suddenly surround Butler or Jamison with Singleton and Ross and Howard, you might see a much different player with a different result. A prime example of this would be McGee, whose play has become noticeably more restrained since being surrounded by defensive minded players.
We had a team of terrible one on one defenders which was compounded by the fact that besides Haywood, they were also terrible help defenders.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Another poster just called my view "unorthodox"
so I’m being criticized on both ends of the same post.
I was reading here last year and the number of people placing due blame on Butler/Jamison is almost as small a percentage as the group that did NOT go to “over the top” criticism of the Butler/Haywood trade.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
considering that howard just went down
and dallas largely dumped him because he’s an injury risk (a la larry hughes), i think you can still criticize that trade. singleton and ross are good stories, but we really don’t want to hand out brian cardinal contracts to those guys. so you can still argue we traded butler and haywood for next to nothing. the end to this season is a nice story, but we arguably could have set ourselves up better long term.
but defending yourself on one point by saying you were “right” about a completely different point makes no sense anyway.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 23, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
But that was the point of the trade....
1) To give the Wizards the roster and cap flexibility to retool-rebuild.
2) And to get rid of Butler (and Jamison) and selfish play
And mission accomplished.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
you take that as a given
it’s not.
a fair point, but not an absolute one.
but you don’t seem to get subtlety, so moving on…
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 23, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure if posters can take you seriously
when your analysis is tinged with such a tangible dislike of Butler and uses such strident absolutes.
Dude, its a conversation. Try to acknowledge other people’s points before slamming your own down. I have had disagreements with many posters on this board, but at least try to understand where they are coming from.
I see you point, yes, maybe Caron and Antawn were the problem. However, there are many other factors that come into play with the problems this team has had.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
If you don't take me seriously
then you can feel free to ignore my posts, I guess.
There can be little argument so far that the SUBTRACTION of Caron and Antawn has fixed a lot of the problems and very quickly.
Chemistry, offense and defense are all markedly improved. How is that not an indictment of Caron/Antawn?
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Actually there can be a lot of argument
that is kinda the entire point. In your very first fanpost I asked, could you show me some numbers, video whatever that backs up your points. Your response was “I don’t have time for that, and if you can’t see what I see, you aren’t paying attention.” In fact, you keep stating that if others are not seeing what you are seeing, then they must not be paying attention. I find that fairly arrogant on the one hand, and fairly condescending to other posters on the other. I don’t want to ignore your posts, I just want you to see that to be taken seriously in the community, you need to stop being high handed in all your interactions.
Bend a little bit, its not going to kill you.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I was reading here last year and the number of people placing due blame on Butler/Jamison is almost as small a percentage as the group that did NOT go to "over the top" criticism of the Butler/Haywood trade.
Well then I think you should read a little more closely. Hell, I was pissed at Butler and Jamison all season.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Over the top
I think what’s over the top is the lionization of our current group. Sorry everyone, I don’t mean to splash cold water on things because it’s really fun to watch, but a group of guys playing way over their heads only lasts so long. Most of these guys will not still be here this year, a couple of awesome wins won’t change that. I love the energy on the court and I wish we could bottle it, but it’s a marathon and our guys are sprinting. And please no more about how “Flip’s offense” is working now. This isn’t Flip’s offense. It’s great energy.
So yes, I still think the trades sucked and we got little back, despite the awesome overachieving show our Bad News Bears are putting on.
It's not a fluke
Heart, hustle, smart, unselfish play are not flukes.
As many of us are Redskin fans, we should be the 1st to tell you that a team beats a collection of talent every time.
The players we got rid of were more talented but bad pieces for a “team”.
by JonathanJoseph on Feb 23, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
We got by this game
But if Howard is out for the year, we’re sunk I fear.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:42 PM EST reply actions
It's impossible to tell from watching the video
It might be a small tear (sprain) it might be a bigger tear, or it might be nothing. But he had to be helped off the court which isn’t a good sign.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
I dono if that means anything
So many times I’ve seen athletes walk off under their own strength and I’d be happy only to hear that its a torn ACL/MCL. Heres hoping to the reverse.
dunno
if blatche keeps drawing double teams in the post, and guys like quintin ross keep knocking down open shots… we are officially in bizarro world.
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 22, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
As much fun as the CAPS
This is starting to match the joy of following the Capitals this year. Now I’m looking forward to Wizards games that much more and keeping the scoretracker on my computer at work. Who knew such a rag tag crew could play together so well.
Josh Howard goes down and there are guys to pick him up. Even Quinton Ross puts in a solid effort today. Andray Blatche has been phenomenal by the way…
it just might be dray
last 5 games
23ppg8.6rpg1.8apg
…not to mention he’s a better defensive presence than Antawn. i just hope this kid stays consistent because hes really, really good.
consistent
Blatche hasn’t been consistent, because his minutes weren’t consistent. As a starter, he has to focus more on pacing himself, and watching his fouls. When he had a the back of his mind getting yanked by Flip for Twan, Blatche rushed his shots, and tried to do things he couldnt do. Prada isn’t convinced until he sees more games. Fair enough. But let’s not view Blatche as the same player he was just a few months ago.
They haven't even had a practice yet?
That can’t be right
i started with
feb 9th against charlotte where he only logged 19 mins but 15 pts. that was the last game before the allstar break.
Yeah we were missing that in Toronto.
Then again, the line between starter and bench is basically invisible on this team.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
thats true fore everyone
except dray. dude is a legit starter
James Singleton is awesome
Does he come up with rebounds, blocks, charges or what? Plus he has a nice jump shot.
I love Al Thornton’s agression. That’s what made him awesome last year, going to the rack with reckless abandon.
I love this new team. Andray continuing his strong play. James Singleton is awesome, ‘nough said . Ross has a nice mid-range jumper, I didn’t know that. He should shoot more often. Hope Josh Howard’s okay. We need him.
First time all year this team has scored 100+ points four consecutive games. All after Caron, Brendan, and Antawn leave. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
gil is gone, too. and i agree i dont think its a coincidence.
I love when they work the offense through Dray. He is not a selfish player. The ball movement is fun to watch. Dray is a humble kid too. hopefully when he gets to that allstar game he stays the humble dude he is.
The best part about the rotation
is that Oberto only played 4 minutes. The young bigs got their burn.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:53 PM EST reply actions
With so many expiring contracts this year
All our players know that if he don’t play good/put in all their effort that they might not get the payday they want. Working out good so far. Heres to some exciting ball so far.
Yeah Mike James was a beast tonight
Only kidding. I think there’s something to be said for some guys playing for contracts and others playing to prove that they deserve to be starters/get their minutes after being trapped behind others.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
i hate to say it and sound like the eternal optimist
but add gil to this team, retain foye and miller, drop howard, sign a back up big man and singleton
and we have a team…and are probably still 10M under cap next year
How do you think Arenas
and Blatche would look together next year?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Add Gil...and your ball movement and defense goes out the window
Trade Gil and a 1st rounder for Darren Collison. Then sign David Lee to play C/F
that works also
i do think we will go after lee hard with our $$
I don't like that
Collison’s good, but he dribbles too much for my taste. I’m officially on board with the “trade Gil, sign a stopgap, draft a replacement eventually” plan.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'm surprised you think a trade is a viable option
If not to NY, then where?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
just harder to make the trade
regardless we go after lee
Yeah man. Lee has an old school back to the basket game and can f’n crash the boards.
Lee and Blatche will be the front court from hell.
I don't want Lee
He’ll get overpaid.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
David Lee doesn't hang around the perimeter
and have a tear drop shot like twan.
He’s a real PF. Plus he can guard his own shadow unlike Twan.
David Lee is gonna get way overpaid tyhis year
hopefully not by us. He’s a PF anyways not a center it would be a stupid signing anyways.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
David Lee is not a good defensive player
He’s actually very similar to Jamison, except he’s a better finisher inside and a worse shooter.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
This team just scored over 100
4 straight games.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
WE WERE 14-30!!!!
we werent winning with gil!!!!
we are 3-1 right now…why do we need him?
Let's be realistic...
…winning in the NBA is all about superstars who can create their own shots. The rest of the league will start figuring these Wizards out..sooner rather than later. We will need Arenas, who can score at the end of the game, and and a couple other pieces (a center to replace haywood) to be a consistent winner.
lets be realistic
the wizards never won more than 50 games with Gilbert as the centerpiece of their core. he is-will not-can not be a franchise player. We simply overpaid him. and how can you tell me that he has been a good closer this year? do you remember his 1-8 4th quarter game vs the TIMBERWOLVES?
Cmon CVC, we all love Gil, but I dont think you are seeing things clearly.
He was coming off three knee surgeries!
And it takes a full year to come back. He exceeded my expectations.
by ArvydasEnvy on Feb 22, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
the team
is officially not the same team it was before the gun incident.
We are better right now because we lost Butler, Jamison and Haywood; and gained Howard, Singleton, Thornton and Ross. NOT because we lost Gil.
by young, loud and Scotty on Feb 22, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
But winning in the playoffs is about ball movement and defense.
Gil does neither. Your move CVC…
arghhhh
CVC are you Ernie Grunfeld posting on Bullets Forever?
I could tell you this privately, but I won't for everyone's sake
That was a totally unnecessary comment.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
no..i'm just a die hard fan
who thinks gilbert can help this team in future. im basing it totally on the statistics he has put up this season, and rationally concluding that a player who puts up such numbers is a plus.
I think your right to point out we still need another consistent scorer
You repeatedly putting out that 25-8-4 though is kinda cherry picking the facts a little though. Your leaving out turnovers, defense and how him getting those numbers affect the performance of those around him. They are going a little overboard but I think trotting out those numbers repeatedly isn’t your most effective argument.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but you have to admit that gilbert's numbers (including turnovers, etc).
are still pretty darn good for a player whose had several knee surgeries and hasn’t played in two years.
agreed
I question how much he helps you wqin sometimes but he’s an elite scorer for sure and I was pretty adamant this season that I thought the was playing well considering. I was just saying I don’t particulary think the 25-8-4 argument is super effective especially as a devoted simmons guy and the belief in the “ewing Theory”.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
also..
..given the fact that he is under contract with the Wizards, and EG’s comments from the other day…aren’t the Wizard’s stuck with him, so why not make the best of the situation?
I am in the play him till we can get a halfway decent trade(no crippling contracts in return) camp
assuming he doesn’t make a huge nuisance of himself.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
It's pretty much the only thing that can happen
Paying him not to play doesn’t help anyone and I’m not gonna pay him money for years in a buyout just to play somewhere else.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
yup
i think that is the most likely outcome – whether they choose it or simply because they have limited options
"how ironic - you came here with a mouse in a bottle, now YOU are the mouse in the bottle" - B.M. Smith
by little stevie colter on Feb 22, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
he doesnt just "add" 25-8-4
this game isnt all about stats. he dominates the ball. he shoots A LOT. he gets assists because he always has the ball.
It's already taken away and we're 3-1
Do you realize that ball movement, defense, and leadership is more important than stats?
Agent loser is a team cancer.
by jdgreger on Feb 22, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
jdgreager is my hero!
finally someone else who sees things from my perspective! ive always liked gil as a person but i knew we shouldnt have handed him that huge contract!
we can't win consistently with a point guard tandem of Foye and Boykins
…and you wont find a PG who is anywhere near as talented as Arenas. Cmon, the guy sat out of basketball for two years, then comes back and puts up numbers that are comparable to All Star point guards like Billups, Rondo, CP3, and Nahs.
I would trade Gilby and a 1st rounder for Darren Collison
Notice how that guy scores and passes…and shocker…wins?
He passes first, then scores. Gilby scores, then decides to pass. He can’t balance both like real pgs. That’s why he’s a loser.
I like Collison too, but again, he dribbles a ton and turns it over a lot
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I like Collison - have since the draft
He plays defense, can shoot, and is very good in the PnR and drive and dish games…..
TRUE – he dribbles a lot (but so does Steve Nash and Chris Paul) … Good pass-first Points dribble the ball a lot in the half court offense… looking for holes in the defense.
As for turn overs, he’s young… Young players always turn the ball over more… as he matures as a player, his turn over rate will drop. It usually starts drops their second year, and continues to drop for a year or two more….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
He's a rookie, sheesh
Can you let him mature? The dude is putting up some crazy numbers though. They can’t keep CP3 and him. Let’s get him. Pull a 3 team deal with Orlando, send Gilbert to Orlando. Orlando sends someone to the Hornets.
plus i think NO’s system put the ball in the PG’s hands most of the time…CP3 handled the rock most of the time too…
Well, yeah, it does
I’m honestly more concerned about the turnovers.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
me too
but he is a rookie and he has the ball in his hands a lot. its a lot to ask from a first year guy. i dont think they trade him away without getting a lot in return though…hes a good player.
Actually
We could provide them tax relief by taking on someone like Peterson or Posey in return for them also giving us Collison.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
That sounds a lot easier in theory to do than it actually is
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
not sure NO wants him
CP3 gets steals, but he isnt much of a onball defender. plus CP3 dominates the ball(but he actually passes it most of the time). I cant see him and Gil playing well together on offense or defense. Opposing teams would get into the lane at will and both guys would be fighting each other to get the ball every inbound.
I urge you to go try to figure something out that works salary-wise
Instead of just saying “Three team deal, I’m a genius, everyone agree with me!”
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
One idea would be to do something like Gil to Orlando
VC and Bass to New Orleans and Collison, Peja and another contract to DC.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
But I'd think New Orleans says no
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
i agree
and why would Orlando take on Gil’s massive contract? im sure they can find other shot chuckers for less.
Well, they'd remove VC
But I agree that if Gil gets dealt, it’ll probably be to one of those teams that strike out in 2010.
For example, Gil for Devin Harris when NJ inevitably strikes out. Harris has been awful there.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
you beat me too it!
lol i was just typing that as your comment showed up. i was gonna say the Knicks could resign Lee and have him chase down Gil’s misses.
A request
(And this goes for everyone).
When we talk about Gilbert Arenas, let’s do so like rational human beings instead of always throwing snide comments in our words.
Thanks
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Prada, do you think EG was talking postively about Gilbert
Just to be dimplomatic and enhance his trade value? Instead of saying “he’s done with the organization” and risk getting zero in return. He says “GIlbert’s under contract, still with Wiz, and is still very good, 23 and 7” so he has some bargaining and doesn’t appear desperate when trading him? That’s what I think. Plus if he says he’s done, the players union would be on his butt.
I wouldn't be surprised
I certainly wouldn’t take anything EG says at face value.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
It all depends on how they do in the playoffs. If Nelson stinks it up again, they might be desperate enough to do this.
I just want a real point guard!!!! No more combo guards
that bounce the ball off their knees when they drive the rack. that rotates on defense…ummmm makes free throws during crunch time…..actually balances his passing with scoring in a fluid fashion. has healthy knees, doesn’t poop in blatche’s shoes. Doesn’t carry desert eagle guns, etc.
I understand your frustration
I could reply to you in a rational fashion that involves telling you that Arenas is an unbelievable offensive player – one of the best in basketball before he was hurt – and someone who was getting it all back before he was suspended, but you wouldn’t listen anyway so it’s not worth it.
The defense and maturity stuff is more warranted.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
i still dont get it
but they werent winning! Mike, dont you think the team is scoring enough points right now? What if they went out and got a point gaurd that plays defense, someone like Kyle Lowry? I think lowry/Foye is a good enough backcourt and would be more effective than Arenas.
I still like Arenas, but it just frustrates me whenever i watch him play basketball. Like jd said, he isnt fluid. he plays like a machine.
As many people have said in this thread
To pin the Wizards’ record on Arenas exclusively is just irrational analysis. There were so many factors at play.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
tw10 - other teams will start figuring the Wiz out..eventually
…and we don’t have a closer who can get his shot off at the end of games, or at least get to the rim (to score or get fouled).
Right now, teams don’t know how to game plan for the Wizards, cuz they don’t know who plays for them. That’ll change soon. Teams around the league will be looking out for them now, in the wake of their improbably wins against the Nuggets and Bulls
I'm going to flip the script on you
I was pretty down on Arenas after Gungate, but in reality this is the perfect team for him to come back two. He saddles up with a bunch of other knuckleheaded chuckers who already like him, and you surround those chuckers (Arenas, Blatche, Thornton) with a bunch of guys who do the little things.
McGee is playing semi-competently right now because Ross and Singleton are GREAT help defenders. I shudder to think what Gilbert will be capable of if he has someone to take the defensive burden off of him.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Are they going to unveil his Banner
after they ripped it down like the sadaam hussein statue.
yeah right. Gilbert is not a leader. WE NEED A LEADER that PROVIDES BALL MOVEMNT and defense.
Ladies and gentlemen
Presenting our new leader …
…
…
…
…
QUINTONNNNNN ROOOSSSSS!!!
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Yeah, but he looked at it the whole way
amateur.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure that I understand your point
The people who sent Gilbert home are not going to be the same people who are signing his checks next year. Leonsis will more than likely be the owner, and no one knows if Grunfeld will be retained.
My point is, this is the perfect situation for Arenas. He gets to play with that “no one believed in me” chip on his shoulder, not only regarding himself, but his team."
I think you have made it apparent that you don’t like Arenas, but try to make a logical argument about why he doesn’t belong on a team. It is one thing to disapprove of his actions, but to do so as well as laud the thrice convicted Blatche is more than a little hypocritical.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
From a basketball perspective, He shoots too often, ball movement is stagnant, he doesn’t rotate on defense, he hasn’t demonstrated leadership, he has unhealthy knees, he’s overpaid, he has never demonstrated the ability to both pass and shoot in a fluid fashion, we stunk with him in the lineup….common dude.
as prada says, he’s an explosive force on offense but his above mentioned liabilites can’t be over compensated.
He’s a better fit somewhere else.
by jdgreger on Feb 22, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure
One ballhog might be ok.
3 ballhogs, not ok.
I have seen this team with not Gilbert but with AJ and Caron. Results were not great. I think Gil deserves a run without those guys. But that’s just me.
I just think its silly to jump ship on a top 30 NBA player.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
sometimes it's neccesary to jump ship on a top 30 guy when he's payed like a top 5 player
He will get his run. Plus I worry about his knee holding up for 4 more years and if he gets hurt 1 more time he is officially untradeable IMO.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Bay
that’s a fair point. I just think we are all being disingenuous to continue to point out Gilbert’s “ahem” behavioral flaws while going nuts over Blatche.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
" I just think we are all being disingenuous to continue to point out Gilbert’s "ahem" behavioral flaws while going nuts over Blatche."
Totally agree though I should point out no one expects Blacthe to lead us anywhere but some people feel Arenas can lead us to contention. Gil will get his run and it would basically be emulating the AI model which got to a really fluky Finals so you do have a good point.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think
Arenas is the missing piece.
But then, I don’t expect half these guys to be back next year. I like the fact that they are competitive, but I hardly think they are playoff worthy.
If we are learning a lesson, its what Mike and others pointed out earlier in the year, you need role players. Not a bunch of guys who need their own shot to give a damn.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Point guards can't be ball hog shooters
they completely ruin the flow of the offense.
Ball movement wins a higher percentage of ball games than ball hogging hibachi point guards.
by jdgreger on Feb 22, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
are Deron Williams and CP3
ballhogs?
No, but they are both their respective teams number one scoring option. So is Rose. So is Baron Davis.
I think the jury is still out. We haven’t seen Arenas play yet with a bunch of guys who don’t demand “touches.” Maybe the result will be different.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Deron, CP3, and Davis are way better passers than Gil though
Gil is more like the lead scorer that the offense runs through than a PG. Think Lebron or Kobe or Peirce more than those guys. Gil can be a good passer and a good scorer. He always seems to struggle mixing both in well. Never seems natural with him.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Again you are right
but besides the knee injuries, I also wonder how much EJ’s system did damage to the players he used the most? I think half of Gil’s problem’s were the same ones that Butler and Jamison were having, an inability to move from their quasi seven seconds or less offense to one that emphasized ball control.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
actually its funny you mention
Piece and are also a Simmons advocate. I watched Pierce when I lived in Boston on some TERRIBLE Boston teams. His situation reminded me a lot of Gil’s. He was a terrible chucker and ballhog, but was instantly reformed when he was surrounded with greater talent. (However, Simmons is full of &$^& in putting him in his pantheon.)
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
yeah
PP had alot more defensive upside but they are similar in the way the way the offense runs through them.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think ideal is matching him with a tall defensive PG who can cover both positions
or a 2 that can handle the ball and defend both positions.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Bay- you are on a roll tonite with good ideas
what tall (6-5, 6-6ish PGs) are out there? Gilbert is strong enough to match up against most SG’s, isn’t he? (Be funny seeing him matched up against Butler).
Iverson was a 2 guard
…Gilbert can be as well. Plus, he is much bigger and stronger than AI, and could match up better against the Kobe’s of the NBA.
unfortunately, sg is all about moving away from the ball
gil never liked that…he likes creating off the dribble.
True
And it’s a shame. He’d be a phenomonal 2 if wanted to be
If gilbert has a position defensively it's at 2 guard
Iverson worked cuz Snow could cover the other players best guard and AI could take whoever was left.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
weren't their times in games this season...
when either Boykins or Foye were at point, and Gilbert was at Shooting Guard? Does anyone remember how that worked out? Was Gilbert more or less effective as a scorer, and more importantly, did the offense run any better (couldn’t be worse, I guess)?
When they did that Arenas usually took point
especially with Foye. If they came in together Foye was always the 2 for some reason. Very frustrating.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Gil at the 2 is brilliant
it addresses this issue of lack of ball movement. I could see Gil causing all kinds of havoc running through screens to get open jumpers (ala Rip Hamilton).
I felt that way for awhile
The problem is it’s really tough to find a guy with the kinda skill set to allow that. I was hoping that would be Critt’s role but we all know how that turned out.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
good luck convincing Gil to run through screens, if he didn’t have the ball this season, he was almost invisible and static on the court.
by Fundefined on Feb 22, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The day Gil runs through a screen
is the day pac man jones behaves at a strip club.
If Gil was the shooting guard he would stand in the corner at the 3 point line for 24 seconds clapping his hands for the ball.
Stop it
You obviously missed all the games Gil and Boykins were on the court at the end.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
But Gilbert still took like 20 some shots a game while playing with those guys. Why would it be any different now? Also, we have scored over 100 a couple times already. Do we need another scorer?
I will be shocked if we end the season with an above-average offensive efficiency
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'm saying just from the trade until the end of the season
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Our first four games since the trade
MIN: 113.7
DEN: 116.3
TOR: 113
CHI: 112.2
There is no way — NO WAY — they are keeping that up. That would make them among the five best teams in the league. Also worth noting that Chicago was the first above-average defensive team they played in this stretch, and they were playing their fifth game in seven nights.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
We def. need another scorer
I just don’t think we have to settle for someone who ONLY scores. They could get 2 decent scorere who can defend and be fine IMO.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
@mike-i agree…i cant see them keeping up this pace, but i would love to see them do it.
@Bay-i think you should start giving specific names for players. its easy to say “we need a tall PG, or a 3pt shooter” but actually finding that player is a little more difficult.
teams will key on Blatche..
and they won’t let Thorton and Singleton get the kind of shots theyve been getting at the end of the last few games. Who then will be able to generate their own shots? Boykins?
at tw10
Huh? I was speaking in a hypothetical and then clearly said it is tough to find that guy.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
@Bay-o ard its all good i was just asking for some examples cause people in general do that not jsut you
In all fairness, you do it too
Plus you’re premise is pretty easy to prove when he has to provide alternatives and you don’t. That kind of makes for an unfair discussion.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I was just confused
because I started off by saying what I always thought the ideal(read hypothetical) was. Then used 2 examples and then pointed out how it was really tough to find a player in the skill set and was told to use examples cuz those guys are hard to find. I just thought he was confused and talking to someone else.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
not saying we dont need other peices.
what im saying is Gilbert is not the answer.
im interested in what our winning percentage for the 2nd half of the year will end up being. If it ends up being better than .318, than we were better off without the big 3.
Gilbert is not the whole answer...
but the likelihood of him being on the Wizzies active roster in October 2010 is high enough that his role on the team must be considered. That is to say, he may well have to be a big part of the answer whether we like it or not.
I think he can be accommodated and I think that we would be foolish to dismiss a big-time scorer and creative passer like Gilbert at the 2-guard out-of—hand. At PG, Steve Blake, for one, will be a free agent next year and he is ideally suited to play next to Gil at the point. Lowry may be available, so too Augustin and TJ Ford, all of whom have something to prove, just like everyone else on this team now.
Yes, a scoring PG could never win an NBA championship
Like Billups. He never won anything. Psh… You don’t need a specific type of point guard, you just need a damn good one. Gilbert is that.
by zeke5123 on Feb 23, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but he didnt help us win
numbers dont matter dude. all those guys are winners. Gil isnt. Im not saying we can win with Foye and Boykins. I wanted us to draft a young PG this year.
we need to get cheap unselfish pg in the offseason. what do you guys think about bringing steve blake back to town? hes really improved his game in portland…dude can really shoot
I like Blake for a 1-2 year deal
he really runs a team and is a decent shooter.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
thank you thank you thank you
Gil is everything this team isnt right now. They are winning because of unselfishness and defense. thats exactly what Gil brings to the table. I wish him all the well and i actually dont think he did enough to warrant us voiding his contract and as a person i like him but as a basketball player i DONT.
Ugh
No… They are winning because they score more points than they allow. Gilbert Arenas helps score more points than he allows.
Is Gilbert the perfect passer? No. Newsflash haters, he is a BETTER Passer than the guys we have running the point now. You guys are saying we need less unselfish play from the point position, when Gilbert sets guys up better than what we have now.
Foye per 36 minutes 4.5 assists
Boykins per 36 minutes 5.9 assists
Gilbert per 36 minutes….. 7.1 assists. He also had a significantly higher assist percentage.
In fairness, Gilbert did shoot more than Foye or Boykins.
Gilbert was a net positive.
What is more likely is that we weren’t losing because of Gilbert Arenas, we were losing because of Caron Butler. The one had a 13.5 PER, the other a 19.1. One stopped the offense with three jab steps and a jumper. One wasn’t coming off massive surgery. One wasn’t rounding into shape, playing excellent games, including a game where he dropped over 40 points while having double digit assists. Guess which one, was THE one.
You may not like Gilbert, but too claim he is not a very good basketball player and attempt to pinpoint him for this season when there is a much larger target is foolish. Gilbert is still probably the Wizards best player, maybe 2nd best. You don’t look to get rid of that for Lowry.
by zeke5123 on Feb 23, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You may not like Gilbert, but too claim he is not a very good basketball player and attempt to pinpoint him for this season when there is a much larger target is foolish. Gilbert is still probably the Wizards best player…
Thank you. I think people forget how valuable it is to have a player who can get to the line virtually whenever he wants, create his own shot virtually whenever he wants, and have the ability to get 7 assists a night if he wants. tw10’s arguments are irrational.
My swag was phenomenal.
Or that John Wall guy
I hear he’s good
...one of those guys who reads all the time but barely comments
by Juice over Whine on Feb 22, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ball Movement and Defense...
Remember Flip getting mad at Arenas for not taking ENOUGH shots. Ball movement goes down? He was averaging 7 assists, so clearly the ball movement wasn’t THAT bad with him in the lineup.
Foye isn’t a great point guard. At least Gil can drive and dish, or drive and draw fouls. Down the stretch, you can tell this team struggled with WHO to go to. With the ball in Arenas’ hands, we are much better off. All Foye can do is use a screen and hit a jumper with barely 40% efficiency.
And Foye isn’t that much of a better defender than Arenas.
Your arguments just went out the window.
My swag was phenomenal.
but Gilbert wasn’t really drive and dishing, he was moving the ball past the midcourt line then passing the ball up and just waited or he went solo and charged in regardless of teammates. He had no balance between distributing and shooting.
Getting 7 apg isn't very impressive when the ball is always in your hands though se7en
and Foye is significantly better than Arenas. Arenas graded out as the worst defender in the league. I think your really getting carried away. Foye is not much of a distributor though. He’s a guy who brings it across the midcourt, starts the offense and has a resepctable 2-1 assist-turnover ratio most nights.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Gilby could never score and pass in a fluid fashion
he would either shut down as a scorer for 10 minutes or become a grade A chucker for 10 minutes. There were times he just wanted to prove that he could pass and didn’t even look to score. It’s just not natural to him to look for his teammates. He can’t play shooting guard because he doesn’t like to run away from the ball, he likes to create off the dribble.
Thus the combo guard dilemma since day one. Plus he he can’t rotate on defense.
by jdgreger on Feb 22, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I liked Simmons "O Guard" theory on Gil.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought you would be and advocate of
the “is he fun to play with” theory. Which for this team makes total sense.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Other than Butler, I never got the sense the guys hated playing with Gilbert
They hated playing with each other, but other than Caron, that ire wasn’t directed at Gilbert personally.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I agree
from everything I’ve heard or read as an outsider, the young guys like Gil and like playing with him. The sense I got was that our core starting five were pretty well sick of each other and their respective “tic.”
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
The other thing is that it may not have been the best thing for the young guys to like Gil
That’s the part that holds the key to this discussion.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
They shouldnt look up to him because of gun gate or do you think he isnt serious enough about his approach to the game.
i do give him credit for working his but off to become a great player, so hopefully the younger guys learned that a good work ethic can get you places.
my worry was
that on a team with CB, AJ, and GA any young guy couldn’t help but look around and see those dudes not trying on D, scoring and getting paid bags of money while guys who defended and did the little things like Haywood weren’t getting paid.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
good point
management sent one hell of a message didnt they?
Gil vs. Foye
I’m just saying Foye is extremely limited. He cannot create for himself or for other people. And late in the game, being able to create for yourself, others or go to the foul line is huge.
Anyone can bring the ball across the midcourt and look for people coming off screens and pass it to them.
Foye’s advantage over Arenas in the defensive end is NOT enough to outweigh how versatile and deadly Arenas is on the offensive side.
My swag was phenomenal.
I meant Foye was way better defensively. I agree with you about his PG skills.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Well Foye isnt getting paid 100+ million. Personally, i would rather see Randy on the court. At least he tries to play defense.
Please
Understand the idea of a sunk cost. The money is gone. Now decide from here on out what is better for the team. Taking on bad contracts with maybe a good player or playing Gilbert? I say Gilbert provides the best use of this sunk cost. Yes, if we could go back in time, we would not have signed Arenas to that deal but we can’t. Going forward, his contract shouldn’t affect how you feel about the player. Now you could argue we could turn this asset into something more valuable, but just because Gilbert is paid more than Foye does not make him worse.
If they were much better off with the ball in Gil’s hands why did they go 14-30 to start the season?
how come in previous seasons when everyone was healthy they have never won 50+ games? I just dont think Gilbert can be the core player of a team looking to make a run deep into the playoffs.
As Prada said...
There are too many factors involved for anyone to place this blame on Gilbert.
My swag was phenomenal.
but plenty of people were quick to blame the two guys got shipped out(because they actually had somewhat trade able contracts and play hard)—-Jamison and Butler. And how can you not at least place some blame on Gilbert? He is suppoused to be the franchise player. If the Cavaliers started losing as many games as the wizards, i wonder who would be blamed???
50+ wins…
I never said he shouldn’t receive some blame.
You’re defending your argument that we are not better off with Arenas by saying we went 14-30 or that we didn’t win 50+ games with him.
Also, concerning 50+ games. This is the amount of teams in the East with 50+ wins from ‘03-’07 (when we had Arenas).
‘03-’04: 2
‘04-’05: 2
‘05-’06: 3
‘06-’07: 2
So you’re mad at Arenas that we weren’t the 3rd best team in the East. If you want 50+ wins, then these past few years tell you that either need LeBron, Wade + Shaq, or a loaded Pistons roster.
It goes a lot further than placing all the blame on Arenas for our woes this season or for the fact that we didn’t get 50+ wins. Many variables at play here.
My swag was phenomenal.
50?
We only broke 43 once(45). I don’t think Arenas should shoulder all the blame by any means.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
So you’re agreeing with me?
I only post all that info for tw10 to say it’s a bit unrealistic to expect 50+ wins without LeBron or D-Wade + Shaq on your team.
My swag was phenomenal.
I question how much he helps teams win sometimes but I don't think he can be blamed for everything
I would blame mostly a team built on 3 dudes whose weaknesses(defense) all overlapped and being so cash strapped they weren’t able to get the extra couple pieces they needed. I don’t think it is super unrealistic to expect 50 wins though. Lot’s of teams had 50 wins in the West those years.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
gilbert is a jacker that stagnates the offense.
don’t ever compare him billups. Billups is a floor general that plays d and focuses on leadership, ball movement, and clutch shooting.
gilbert focus on bull rushing to the paint, praying for a foul.
by jdgreger on Feb 23, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
i sometimes think that people remember Gil as a much better player than he was this year. But i remember cleary. 2 games really stick out for me, and those are the game on ESPN vs the heat and his ugly performance against the timberwolves in which i lost faith in him completely.
Gilbert vs. Chauncey
Not sure who this is directed at, but I didn’t compare him to Billups. I think Billups is a much better leader, and that’s where he’s better than Arenas, but their numbers aren’t that different.
But now that you ask, I will compare their career numbers at least.
Billups: 15.3 PPG, 41.7 FG%, 4.8 FTA, 5.6 AST, 2.9 REB, 2.0 TOV
Arenas: 21.9 PPG, 42.6 FG%, 7.4 FTA, 5.6 AST, 4.2 REB, 3.3 TOV
Their numbers are quite similar, but Arenas shoots more with a bit better efficiency, so he scores more, and gets to the line more.
My swag was phenomenal.
Defense is kindof important though(people always leave that out)
The fact that Billups is so clutch at FT’s is a small point in his favor though as he actually has a slightly higher efg% than Gilbert.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with defense
Is that it is hard to quantify. As such, it is very subjective. Unlike baseball, defense cannot be attributed to one person. But my guess is that an amazingly great offensive talent cannot be so bad as to give back his offensive contributors. No doubt he gives back some, but that probably makes him still a very good player. In baseball terms, he’s a 3-4 win player, where 2 wins are average. At least, that is my approximation. I really haven’t seen any great method for measuring defense. I mean, we have plus/minus and on/off but those metrics are far from perfect and contain alot of noise. I think we can assume they are in the general area, but not really close enough to state exactly how good a player is.
Sorry, that was rambling.
I agree it is hard to quantify as a stat
but I can wholeheartedly state as fact that Gilbert doesn’t even come close to Chauncey as a defender. And if forced to provide a stat I would refer to the below article which points out synergy sports ranked him as the worst defender in the league this year. I still feel comfortable just flat out stating that Chauncey is better defender just because I watch the NBA.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12645/stuck-together-gilbert-arenas-and-the-wizards
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not disagreeing with you
On his defense. I guess I am interested in quantifying a players contributions to winning. A player can do this two ways ; prevent a team from scoring or helping his team score. I guess the problem I have with some of these comments is the idea that only one way leads to winning – defense or offense. We can recognize Gilbert is a poor defender while realizing he offers immense value on offense. All-in-all, my guess is he is a net positive, whereas the average NBA is a net zero. Once again, this is only a guess.
oh agreed
sorry misunderstood. I agree he is a net positive. My concerns has always been how positive? and is it a big enough net positive to justify the contract. To which you are correct there is no good measurement.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
What's the quote?
“I can’t define pornography, but I know when I see it”? Yeah, defense is kind of like that. Sure, basketball stats leave a lot to be desired and there’s no real quantifiable way to judge someone who makes a living by switching on screens, running at shooters and altering shots, but you can see all of those things during the game. I like Arenas, but from what I saw, his idea of defense was over playing passing lanes, looking for a steal (which he and Hughes were actually really good at, to be fair).
Okay then how about blaming management for paying him as a top 15 player in the league when he isnt? Your basically agreeing with me that he isnt that good. We had loads of talent on our roster. Lebron did not get to play with 2 other allstars.
and im not saying ALL the blame. im saying A LOT OF the blame goes to HIM and HIS INFLATED CONTRACT
I’m agreeing with you that he isn’t as good as LeBron or D-Wade.
UH. Who doesn’t admit this?!
That doesn’t mean he isn’t “that good.”
And if you want to talk about his inflated contract… that’s fine. You have a great argument. Just don’t go and blame all our woes on him and say he isn’t a good player. He was one of the best guards in the league before the injury, and pretty damn good post-injury.
My swag was phenomenal.
the elephant in the room...
do the Wizards unexpectedly have Kevin Garnett circa 2000? (!)
I mean, did anyone else see the double teams Chicago was applying to Andray?
if so, what rebuilding?
What PF is playing better in the league right now besides Bosh?
if this team keeps this up
this is a great story
by DarrellWalkerFan on Feb 22, 2010 10:06 PM EST reply actions
This is a fun fact from ESPN
“Any kind of comeback against Denver would be special given the kind of season the two teams are having, but the Wiz hadn’t overturned a second-half deficit of more than 12 points in more than six years before Friday night.”
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
That can't be right
Because I remember us beating Boston (the year they won the championship) and we were down 14 in the 4th quarter. I believe it was one of the back-to-back games we had with them.
i think hes being seirous
You think Gil is a top player in the league, you want to trade Blatche….
im convinced you are Ernie Grunfeld.
In this case, CVC is being ironic
Because I said I’d like to see Blatche consistently be better than Luis Scola before we talk about him being as good as JO circa 2002.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
What the hell is irony?
Weren’t Blatche-Augustine rumors floated not a week ago?
by ArvydasEnvy on Feb 22, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Well yeah, but I'm saying the fact that he's saying Scola specifically is ...
Okay, irony was the wrong word. But I think you know what I mean.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
yes, "ironic", sorry.
I’m just excited about Andray Blatche’s recent play. He’s showing flashes of …shall I dare say… “greatness.” Nah..too strong a word. But man, he is a gifted basketball player, with the basic tools to be better than Jermaine O’Neal, at some point in the future. He’s a real keeper.
b/c hes young and inexperienced? i dont think flip trusts him yet, but he was playing pretty late into the game
He did get more 4th quarter minutes
But I believe the Bulls’ run coincided with McGee being out. Am I wrong?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
True but i also noticed that Rose took it to the rack when he came out, I mean based on the game situation i can see why he’d want to attack anyway, but Rose def ramped up his drives when he didnt have Mcgee’s lanky arms to worry about.
Actually
what I noticed live is that the Bulls run coincided with McGee being in the game. I think he subbed in Singleton for defensive purposes.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I think the way it went down
Was like this. Wiz were leading 81-76 when McGee came in for Singleton. Wiz stretched the lead to 93-80, and then slipped a little to 94-85. At that point Singleton replaced McGee, and the lead shrunk to 96-95, but Singleton stayed in and helped the Wiz pull it out.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Rose played well tonight
But the defense on him was even better. Foye had some problems keeping up with him, no surprise, but the help and the rotations were right on. We forced some tough buckets. The biggest stat we haven’t yet talked about was all the rebounding. We kept up with the top rebounding team in the league and got some offensive boards that really changed the game around. I’m looking at you, Al Thornton.
I actually
think Foye was great tonight. And Flip learned from the Toronto game. Once the Bulls figured Boykins out, he reinserted Foye into the game.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
The Bulls are seventh in offensive rebounding and 10th in defensive rebounding
Link.
Don’t believe what they tell you on the broadcast – they’re looking at raw rebound numbers, which are really misleading. What you want to look at instead are rebound percentage (i.e. what percentage of available rebounds do teams grab), because there are different numbers of rebounds instead of missed shots.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Just looked at our schedule
We have a murderer’s row waiting for us from March 9-21. I’m going to enjoy this while I can because we’re going to have to play out of our minds to go 4-4 during that stretch.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 22, 2010 10:29 PM EST reply actions
Guys are playing lights out
They are really overachieving right now, but I love it!!! If teams like Houston can do it, why can’t we? But seriously, if Blatche can keep this up then we will have a chance in every game.
I would like to
salute the other 12 Wizards fans in attendance tonight. Nice to silence all the Bulls fans in the arena.
Another great game to attend live. James Singleton is for real.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Next time you're here, drop by 104 to say hi
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
They got shut up
Towards the end of that game. There was one guy in my section that was really hooping and hollering and by mid way through the fourth his mouth was firmly shut.
I was super annoyed
with all the girls in the the Jordan jerseys. They left the game saying “that was BS.”
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Mike
I don’t think they will let us peons in the upper decks come down and visit you.
Kidding, I shall.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
The Wiz defense has improved and the offense has scored over 100 points in 4 games in a row for the first time all season.
Blatche Box Score
I just took a look at Seven Day Dray’s stat line for tonight. 8-13 from the floor, 9-9 from the line, 11 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals. Whew. I really hope he can keep this kind of play up. I’ve really wanted him to turn into something since he’s come here. I don’t expect him to do this ever night, but lets turn him into something we can be proud of.
Can we build a Durant Statue Now in front of Verizon?
that should help in the free agent courting process in a year or so….right?
ehhhh
he’s still got it in the sense that he managed to shed all that salary without surrendering any young assets. I think the performance the last couple games was kinda fortuitous mixed with a bunch of dudes who are actually trying as opposed to those going through the motions.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Some of it is just good fortune (and a lot of Blatche), but you have to admit that Grunfeld made good choices.
I remember Singleton tearing it up in the preseason —maybe last year? But thought he’d lost it. I’ve never followed Singleton before, and never had much reason to (as far as I know). Even Quinton Ross is finding ways to contribute. Yeah, it’s just a few games, but I never expected to see this kind of performance from the new guys.
Sorry, typo
That should’ve read “I remember Al Thornton tearing it up in the preseason”. Although I do think it may have been last year, and then things never panned out with the Clippers. He’s a talented player, though. I’m glad the Wizards kept him on the radar.
Al thornton has pontential
if he plays like tonight. He average 17 last year cause he attacked the rim. This year he just relied on a jumper with the clippers.
If he keeps going to the rack…good things happen.
See I don't get this
Arenas is a ballhog, but Thornton isn’t a chucker? I like Thornton, but the man is thusfar a black hole.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
lol. he's a chucker, but he's chucking to the rim instead of mid range jumpers
plus hes a wing player. not the captain running the ship.
we’ll see. let’s support his aggresiveness.
Gil's strength was always getting to the rim
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
but this year he only had 4-5 double digit free throw games…that used to be common for him…he lost a step.
I don't think he lost a step really
it just wasn’t there very game due to leg fatigue. Certain games he still had that step, atleast for the first half.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
he also didn't get the calls this year he was used to getting as a superstar
My swag was phenomenal.
i have season tickets, and yes he's lost a step, but a quick step isn't the only factor that gets you to the line. And yes he also wasn't getting the same calls he's used to getting.
My swag was phenomenal.
I think the step is there
There have been games where he was as quick to the hole as ever just never for very long. I think he had an atrophied leg and was being played 38mpg(often whole quarters at a time) so he didn’t have much legs. I didn’t really feel that he will always be slower, just when he’s tired. I think he just drove less cuz he was tired and wasn’t getting the calls as much so it became less succesful.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
I hope he is training now
The further away from the injury plus more time to strengthening it will really help gilbert. I think you are spot on.
I'm sure Gil hasn't left the gym for more than a few hours at a time since he could go back
He’s always been a gym rat
People around here
are going to tire of Thornton.
First time we lose 3 in a row I predict there will be calls for his head.
I agree
I don’t mind chucking when he is cleaning up garbage like he did tonight, but some of those mid range jumpers were ill advised.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
I was out of town so the last 5 minutes of this game is all I have seen
but I am already tired of Thornton.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 22, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this
And I think Al can be helpful too. Damn, it’s tough figuring out where he fits.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Nothing other than he's probably out for Wednesday
It looked pretty bad.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I never know what to make of +/-
It can mean so many things.. very often, a high /- means that a player is on the floor with someone who’s getting double-teamed and creating opportunities for others. But just for the record, McGee was a +12 tonight, the highest of any player other than Mike Miller (13). I’ve never seen the + so high with McGee before.
AB is really growing up
“I was worried,” Blatche said. “I’m fortunate to still be here with the Washington Wizards. I never want to leave this town. I pretty much grew up here. The organization has been great to me. Through all my situations they stood beside me. You know, I was worried about leaving. I love this place.” – From the Washington Post
I’m loving AB’s attitude
What's to make of Nick Young?
Was he hurt tonight? Did Deshawn Stevenson steal his minutes?
This guy is an enigma trapped in a riddle.
does he not pass the ball?
why does he go up without knowing if he is going to shoot or pass?
of all the guys is “Operation Redemption,” I think Young has proved thoroughly that he is what he is.
Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!
Boykins is the king indecision jumper
The only way Nick Young can break out is if Flip says to Nick. You will start and play 30 minutes regardless of your play.
He’s fragile freddy…needs some stability or something.
Actually I think
if Young were to be thrown out there with a guaranteed 30 minuts to sink or swim, I think he’d sink.
agreed
But I’ve been down on him since we drafted him so maybe thats just me.
by BayAreaBullet on Feb 23, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
And.Charlotte lost tonight
Six back in the loss column from Charlotte and Miami.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 23, 2010 1:47 AM EST reply actions
Keep Dreaming
I will too. It will be an up-hill battle, but making the playoffs isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
I want them to make it JUST so Wilbon can look like an idiot.
Well, any of the naysayers, really.
My swag was phenomenal.
Yes it would be nice to flip the bird at Wilbon
If the “bottom feeder” quote isn’t in big letters on the bulletin board in the Wizzies’ locker room, it should be!
I'd rather
Flip Lebron the bird by beating them in the playoffs.
Butler
Check out Butler’s shooting percentage at the end of the season – he has become a guy who settles for the outside J and no longer drives to the hoop, making him much easier to defend. I think Jamison and Butler got used to losing here, which led Butler to develop bad habits. Let’s see if he shakes them in Dallas. Haywood is playing great for them. He has always been underrated.
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