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Briefing: Trade brings end to an era



Caron Butler reflects on the breakup of the Washington Wizards and their all-star trio - Mike Wise, Washington Post

"We all wanted to go in the rafters together, as crazy as that sounds now," Butler said Sunday night. "Antawn and I would actually talk about it. That was the plan: play hard, compete night in and night out and give us a chance to win a title. For a while that's what it looked like." Now it's over. Whatever the Wizards' trio of all-stars were -- once a bona fide Eastern Conference playoff team -- that collection of talent didn't end up sticking around for the long haul after all.

Wizards' fire sale means a fond adieu to Jamison - Steve DeShazo, Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star

It's been nice having a player as talented and forthright as Jamison in a Washington Wizards uniform for the past five years. But Saturday's big trade with the Dallas Mavericks means the snow will last longer in D.C. than Jamison will. Dealing Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood to Dallas means the Wizards have officially waved the white flag and announced that the fire sale has begun. With Gilbert Arenas suspended for the season and Butler sent away, Jamison is the last of the "Big Three" who only a few years ago gave Wizards fans hope of raising another banner while Abe Pollin was alive to see it.

Caron Butler to the Mavericks - Kelly Dwyer, Ball Don't Lie

Washington needed to do this deal. It's not the most creative expunging of contracts we've seen, but the Wizards badly need to rebuild, and they have no use for a player in his prime, working with an eight-figure contract in 2010-11. Losing Butler's deal and Stevenson's player option (which he will no doubt pick up) for next seasson opens up more and more cap space for this team. Especially if Gilbert Arenas'(notes) deal is voided, and (more likely than the Arenas void) Antawn Jamison(notes) is sent to another team later this week. Drew Gooden has given the Mavericks a very good season, actually playing better defense (though he's still routinely out of position) and hitting the offensive glass hard. One wonders if he's a potential buyout candidate, though with a possible Jamison trade looming, the Wizards might need all the warm bodies they can get to keep coach Flip Saunders sane. Then again, keeping coaches sane isn't exactly one of Gooden's strengths. 

Wizards had to start over - Michael Wilbon, Wilbon's World

The Wizards weren't going to win anything keeping that group together any longer. Every night they took the court together as of late was a waste of the franchise's time. The team had simply reached its expiration date, probably more than a year ago. Keeping Stevenson (over Roger Mason Jr.) was a huge mistake; paying Gilbert Arenas $111 million turned out to be one of the league's biggest mistakes in years.

Star-divide

Grunfeld’s Orders, Cuban’s Media Education of Haywood, The Duo of Caron & Brendan and The Best of Wiz-Mavs Trade Links - Kyle Weidie, Truth About It

If you’re the Wizards ownership in limbo, guess you gotta spend money and give away value to save money, perhaps for the sale of the team. With part of potential majority owner Ted Leonsis’ ‘10-Point Rebuilding Plan’ being to always seek a "pick and a prospect," we now have some insight that, perhaps, Grunfeld was working under edict of the Abe Pollin estate to cut costs no matter how much it might set the franchise back in the future. Abe’s dream of his team winning another championship has been put to rest, now the Washington basketball patriarch’s squad could be being dismantled just to appease the financial gain of those he left behind. Sorry Wizards fans, the legacy of Abe Pollin still haunts the franchise. Not until Leonsis takes over can you rest assured that the team you love will be firmly headed in a positive direction, or at least open with fans on that direction, which would likely sooth baffled impatience in these current trying times.

Josh Howard and Caron Butler could be improved fantasy options with new teams - John Cregan, ESPN

Josh Howard has gone from waiver-wire material to bona fide second-half sleeper. By the end of this week, Howard could be the No. 1 scoring option in Washington. Of course, he could also tweak an ankle, knee, wrist or elbow getting off the plane at Dulles, but it's unquestionable that Howard's fantasy value has almost doubled overnight. If Howard is healthy -- a big "if" -- he's good for 18.5 points, 6.0 rebounds, a 3-pointer and a steal per night. Don't discount the chance that Howard should be as motivated as he's been in years. He's a head case, and there's a chance his play goes even further south, but there's also a chance the change in scenery and the fact he's playing for a new contract just might inspire his box scores down the stretch.

Rating the Wizards' end of the Dallas deal - Mike Jones Sports

Did the Wizards come up on the short end of the stick by not being able to get a draft pick in the mix? Possibly. But given Washington's situation -- their 17-33 record and the fact that it was no secret that they needed to blow this team up -- they didn't have as much leverage as they could have. I'm told they approached -- and continue to approach -- the trade deadline with somewhat of a checklist. They wanted/want to make deals that give them A) salary relief, B) young talent and or C) future picks. The Wizards would have viewed a deal that gave them all three as fantastic, a deal that gave them one of the two as great, and a deal that at least gave them salary relief as pretty good. Since they didn't really get any young talent in this trade, then this is a pretty good trade because in it they got a former All-Star in Howard and a player with starting experience in winning situations in Gooden, who also provides a low-post presence. And they get two players (Ross and Singleton) that they can evaluate.

Big prize: Brendan Haywood - Henry Abbott, TrueHoop

Now that trade season is really underway (with the reported swap of Mavericks Josh Howard, Drew Gooden, Quinton Ross and James Singleton for Wizards Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson), the consensus among basketball watchers is that the Mavericks have improved themselves with the addition of Caron Butler -- who has long proven he's capable of big-time feats such has averaging 20 points per game. This is hardly just a Caron Butler trade, however. In fact, for the Mavericks, the big prize of the day may well be center Brendan Haywood. 

So the Wizards dealt Butler and Haywood -- now what? - Matt Kremnitzer, Krem's Sports Blog

Still, this is the deal the Wizards made. So even though I hate to use a phrase like this, it is what it is. The Wizards wanted to shed some salary, and they gave up the two best players (Butler and Haywood) in the deal to do so. Maybe the Wizards could've gotten more from another team, but this is the trade Grunfeld made.

What A Caron Butler For Josh Howard Trade Means To You - Kyle Weidie, Truth About It

I’m not anti-cap space. It provides GM-envious flexibility. With cap space, you can do things like gain cheap assets by just helping facilitate a trade between two other teams. Recently the Oklahoma City Thunder were able to get Virginia Commonwealth’s Eric Maynor from the Utah Jazz for just a second round pick and for being able to take on Matt Harpring’s retiring/expiring contract so Utah could reduce their 2010 luxury tax hit. But with cap space comes risk. With more and more talented players on the market seemingly willing to take less pay to play for a contender, the Wizards run the risk of competing against high, frugal competition by over-paying for a free agent. Or, by throwing money at one less likely to pan out, especially possible since there are not really any building blocks. At least Wizards fans can (hopefully) trust Ernie Grunfeld not to pull a ‘Joe Dumars’ and throw money at a Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva-type player.  And hopefully the ghost of Jaromír Jágr has been exorcised from the Verizon Center.

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I'm just not buying the "they had to do this b/c they suck" argument

As this site has shown, there were several options. To conclude that because this trade actually happened it was Washington’s best and only option is ignorant and (in regards to some of these “sports experts”) lazy journalism.

by Pryme on Feb 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

Well even if they HAD TO DO THIS

because it was there best option(which clearly, as u said, was not the case). It could have waited until Wed or Thur

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

same precipice on the lottery pick deal. They could have waited until draft day to do that one, and would’ve gotten more. And they could’ve waited to sell the 2nd round pick until, well, NEVER. Anyone out there still think Oberto was a better option than Blair? Or Jonas Jerbko? Or Chase Buddinger? Or Sam Mills? Or hell, even Jermaine Taylor?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

You're all so negative

I’m tired of everyone on this forum being so whiny. If Grunfeld waited until wednesday or thursday, I’m sure you’d all be complaining that he waited for all the good talent to be traded and had to settle. Honestly, it was a good trade and if you expected anything better, you’re just foolish. The wiz have no leverage because they’re desperate to shed cap space. Btw, in terms of the draft, complaining that we didn’t pick up players who everyone now realizes are good is just embarassing. jonas jerebko? Really? No one knew he was going to be this good, and trading the pick wasn’t a terrible move because everyone honestly thought we would be competitive this year and didn’t need any youngsters.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

How dare we criticize Ernie Grunfeld? He who drafted Pecherov and Young. He who brought back Stevenson in the name of continuity. He who overpaid for Etan Thomas. He who left Milwaukee a smoldering ruin.

You’re right. I shall immediately stop asking for a better product that I spend my money on.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

JJ sure

But this entire forum was crowing about Dejuan Blair for weeks leading up to the draft. There were intelligent arguments in favor of trading down so we could pick him in the mid-first round. That we could’ve grabbed him in the 2nd was a gift, that we sold the pick instead was a crime.

Jerebko might be hindsight, but Blair isn’t. Prada and company called that. Management screwed up. This is where we get to (and ought to) howl about it.

by sierradave on Feb 15, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You're missing my point

1st of all, if you had been on here before, you would’ve known that I wanted Blair from the beginning. But that’s not what my point is. The point is you MAKE the pick because you need young talent and you could end up with a decent role player like McGuire, or a real cog like Jerebko. Either one would be better than Oberto at this point.

As far as this being a “good trade” – you’re high. You can’t say we “had no leverage”, are “desperate to shed cap space”, and then say it was a good trade. But we’re not the only team that’s been desperate, yet we seem to be the only team that comes out on the short end of the stick every time. Except for the Butler trade, tell me one good trade the Wizards made, one trade where they actually came out ahead? Sorry, I’m not being negative. I’m just tired of excepting the status quo around here. What’s wrong with wanting better?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

What I was saying is...

that its a good trade considering the situation. As is outlined in one of the articles quoted above the wizards have three goals when it comes to trades:
1) shed cap space
2) get young talent
3) get future draft picks
I think that #1 is the most important, and that’s what this did. Obviously, if we can’t get young talent or draft picks with AJ from the Eastern conf gm’s we were trying to keep happy, then the trade makes no sense, but I’d be happy if this allows us to get a first round draft pick for AJ.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

tell me

what good cap space is if you can’t use it? Do you think any of the top tier free agents are gonna come here? What if all there is to spend that money on is John Salmons, or Chuck Hayes? This is why you get building blocks back when trying to rebuild. We need to build with young players and draft picks, NOT free agents. I understand the need to shed salaries, but that’s not what’s gonna make us better.

And saying you’ll be happy with this trade if the next one is better is a it of a cop out. Or, at least, it’s more accepting of the way things have worked in the past around here. Me? I’d rather get away from all the bad moves. Why can’t we be happy with BOTH moves? Also, you would think that a deal for Butler AND Haywood would net us more than a Jamison deal, since both of those guys are worth more.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

We can only speculate as to what’s going on in the front office. I just think you have to wait until Friday to evaluate what we got and what we lost, then say what was a bad move. We knew we had to get rid of Caron and AJ (I do wish we had kept Brendan, but oh well), and this trade may have been the best option out there.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

also

Everyone overrates players on their own team. I agree with you that Brendan and Caron are worth a hell of a lot more than Gooden and Howard, but if thats the best we could do, that’s what we should have done. If we weren’t satisfied with the offers, we couldn’t have just decided to keep Caron. We had to deal him

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

But Hutch...

If he waited until the trade deadline, it would’ve been a real burden on the other GM’s in the league. They needed this to happen so they could make their response moves. And they needed it to be a trade like this so it wouldn’t “upset the balance of power in the east.” And what’s more important, building the best team, or keeping his GM buddies happy???

Betcha didn’t think of that, did you?

by sierradave on Feb 15, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah right

I forgot Ernie had all the other Eastern teams to look out for. I’m so goddammed negative.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Considering we have to deal AJ, what can you do?

As nice as it is to think that we can just stick it to the other GM’s and be independent, you have to be realistic. If we piss off the other teams we might not get good value for AJ, which is just as important.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

so why not

deal him first then? Either way, I don’t think you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Its business. They’re not gonna “blackball” one team because they don’t like a deal they made. Does that mean teams are shunning the Grizzlies? Because I know for a fact that plenty of teams were pissed at them for that trade. Ernie needs to sorry about his team, not the rest of the conference.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just wait and see

I’d be totally on board with all this criticism if we get crap for Twan, but if EG saw the opportunity to free up cap space with this trade and then get young talent with the next one, it was a pretty good move.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

Of course they did not have to make this deal…. I still feel it was done out of spite – towards who exactly, I have not quite pinpointed that, but no, THIS deal was not absolutely necessary….. Come Wednesday, the team is still going to “suck,” but now they will have even less fan support…

by 2StepsAway on Feb 15, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand

You’re sure that this was done out of spite, yet can’t muster as much as a guess as to who and why.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

How depressing...

How he said ‘Tawn and he used to talk about going up into the rafters together. It is all depressing. I almost hope Gil sticks around, for old time’s sake. As idiotic as that sounds. I obviously want to win but I loved cheering for these guys, as did we all.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Very depressing. I hope Gil stays too.

by SkinsWizStangs on Feb 15, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the complilation......

… now we need to wait for the other shoe to drop…there better be another shoe…

by 2StepsAway on Feb 15, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

Has to be another shoe or two....

EG seems to be under EXPLICIT orders to get this team under the luxury tax line for this season…. So Antawn and Mike Miller better be packin’ they bags….

by khrabb on Feb 15, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I love when people play GM

No one but EG and Cuban have any idea what deals were really out there and how it went down. To me, common sense dictates what you should believe. The young talent that we sought in these trades just wasn’t materializing. Would you trade an up and coming young player for Haywood, Butler, or Jamison? It just doesn’t make any sense to give up a future player for one of them, especially if you are Portland, Dallas, or Houston. All three are playing well and nothing we can offer puts anyone over the top. You can’t even argue that Jamison would make the Cav’s better; they have the best record in the league, why would they want to mess with that? The market for players is much more important than their actual on court value. Haywood and Butler make Dallas better, but they were already pretty damn good with Gooden and Howard.

by seewhite on Feb 15, 2010 3:05 PM EST reply actions  

It would make sense, if you wanted to be sure you had a legit chance at beating LA

before your “experienced vets” turn into just old guys. But obviously Dallas, or anyone, didn’t have to give us a young guy. Cuz EG folded so early.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

"More and More," defined
Losing Butler’s deal and Stevenson’s player option (which he will no doubt pick up) for next seasson opens up more and more cap space for this team.

Uh, Butler for Howard amounted to a swap of expirings. Haywood for Gooden: another swap of expirings. The Wizards did gain somewhere north of $3 million in cap space for next season, on the exchange of Stevenson for Quinton Ross.

That’s a little space. It’s not young talent, and it’s not “more and more” of anything much at all.

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Feb 15, 2010 3:08 PM EST reply actions  

Butler's Contract Doesn't Expire Until After Next Season

Howard’s expires at the end of this season. That’s somewhere north of $13 million, not $3 million.

"It's OK for the Bullets to trade baskets, as long as they can score on their end." -- Words of wisdom from Phil Chenier

by cuppettcj on Feb 15, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Take a look at Sheridan's Chat on espn.com

He, I think quite astutely, focuses on Mike Miller as the key piece that no one has mentioned

by khrabb on Feb 15, 2010 4:28 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

I think it’s likely that Miller is packaged with Jamison.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If we package Miller and Jamison

We better get something decent back in return. They are the only two left on the team really worth watching, and if we do this it better wipe a boatload of salary, or bring us some sort of talent of consequence.

by seewhite on Feb 15, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

That would suck

Miller has been one of the only bright spots in this otherwise miserable season. I was really looking forward to seeing him next year.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm thinking we trade both of them for contracts that expire in 2011

Plus a little space this year (about $2-3 mil) and draft picks. Then, in a year we can trade those expirings for more assets, renting out our cap space for 2-3 years while we stock the team with draft picks. I understand it will be ugly to watch the team on the court this year and next, but if we hit in the draft, we can have a lot to cheer for in a few years.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

That's depressing...

but i guess its the truth at this point

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I cant wait to watch Dallas an Gil’s new team and never watch a wizards game again… seesh that “franchise” is an embarassment to the NBA or basketball period. The tree bares bad fruit from bad roots, and EG is too blame.

So when do I get to see Caron, Hay, and Stevenson on Dallas?

by Unxpekted on Feb 15, 2010 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

So the Wizards rate the trade “pretty good” even though the salary dump does not really get them under the cap yet. Awesome.

Fans can rest easy now because Ernie has a plan!!

The trade sucks, the team is awful, there is no plan or future with current roster, Polin family is greedy and for the love of god, stop insulting my fandom by shoving sunshine up our asses.

Someone tell Mike Jones that he does not have to keep being the team’s stenographer or publicist anymore.

"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,

by Mac G on Feb 15, 2010 4:54 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Haywood...

… throwing him into this deal still bugs me. Wizards thought they couldnt keep him next year, but how do they now for sure? Money talks.

Dwight Howard himself ranks Haywood as the third best defender in the nba, behind josh smith and ron artest (howard ranked himself no. 5).

So we gave up the third best defender in the NBA for what?

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 6:12 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

I really wished we’d kept him. He was one piece that was really working. But it is what it is i guess.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Are we being realistic?

I dunno guys…seems to me that what most of you were expecting was irrational and unrealistic. We had NO leverage here. We were desperate to blow things up, as one public tragedy after another made it so the whole country watched this season unravel before everyone’s eyes. I’d like to think that we could’ve gotten more, but I don’t think many of us on this board have intimate knowledge of the discussions that were taking place. I wasn’t a big fan of any of the rumors I had been hearing leading up to the trade. The BTH-to-Portland rumors seemed, intriguing, but it seemed that they were not willing to give us much,if any, of what we wanted: significant cap relief, young players, picks.

We’ve been talking ALL season (to many, even before this season) about how this team needed to be dismantled and redone. It seems that many of those that were consistently criticizing Haywood and Caron are the ones that are now complaining that we didn’t get enough for them.

So many posters on here seem cynical for the sake of being cynical. I guess that is what message boards and blogs are for though. I don’t expect Josh Howard to blow us away, I expect him to be an expiring contract. He hasn’t played worth squadoosh the last couple of seasons, and he seems like a walking PR failure, but it seems that this trade had little to nothing to do with acquiring players that we planned on keeping. Although, there is a 1 in a billion chance that this trade recharges Howard and we see some signs of life. I want to go on record as saying that I would have liked to have seen us get more for BTH and CB, but at the end of the day we did manage to get rid of two contracts that we did not want to deal with next year off of the books. For now, it’ll have to do. We have a chance to be a player in the free agent market this summer. Sure, it doesn’t seem likely that any major player would come here, but hey, without the cap room, it would all be moot. Now, and esp. is we trade AJ, there’s a chance that we could be a player.

I have more to say, but I can feel that as I re-read what I’ve written that I’m going to get skewered for being too positive and utopian.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

Actually

I think this notion that we had “no leverage” is goofy. The only guy we may be desperate to move is Jamison. But, while I definitely agree it was time for Butler to go, we didn’t NEED to get rid of him. We were gonna suck either way, so where’s the desperation?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what? I can see the point that we possibly feigned desperation. But I think we were pretty pressed to start over now. LIke yesterday. We suck. We suck AND we’re over the luxury tax. All of the sharks were circling. You knew, I knew, everyone knew we wanted to blow things up. If you’re gonna suck, you might as well suck cheap. And for that reason, and give me a minute, I’ll come up with others, the FO reeked of desperation. That’s the best I could come up with. LOL

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

...

I also don’t think that we’re done making deals. We have to assume that AJ will be moved too before Thursday. I’m rather indifferent to the trade, and even though I want Ernie gone, I think he usually pulls off decent trades. Draft picks, resigning players, yeah he’s awful at that. But I’m willing to go with Ernie getting what he could in this deal.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Finally someone level-headed

Could not agree with you more, Edward. Everyone here needs to be more realistic.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess

if “level headed” means you are satisfied with the same old same old around here, then you’re right. I have no interest in being “level headed.” As for realistic – again, I guess you’re just happy with more 30 win seasons. But here’s a bulletin for you – other teams do get out of the dumps, AND they make trades where they benefit as much as, if no (GASP) more than, the other team. THAT’S what I’m looking for. If that’s not “level-headed”, then so be it.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I think each situation is different. When Memphis traded Gasol, there were people talking about collusion! Now it looks as if both teams benefited from the deal. I think it’s weak to assume that because I’m not screaming that the sky is falling that I am satisfied with 30-win seasons. The cap room is more valuable than anyone is giving credit for. I don’t think anyone was going to offer us a situation where we got the better of the deal.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

As I’ve said above, this trade accomplished what we needed: to eliminate cap space. If we can get draft picks and young talent for AJ, I don’t see what the problem is.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem as most people have stated

is that EG

1) Did not wait until the trading deadline to see if there were better offers (see Foye/Miller)
2) Proclaimed this something else rather then dump salaries.

Further, your entire argument hinges on the fact that Ernie is going to make another move. I have seen just as many reports that the Wizards would like to hold onto Jamison for his professionalism. We have, on this very same board, have been waiting expectantly for Ernie to make “that other move” for years now. Like when he brought in Miller/Foye and we suddenly had a surplus of guards. Had to make another move, right?

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know how anybody can sit here and say that we would’ve gotten more or less by waiting another 5 days. There were other players out there. I could easily see pressure in making a move before there was NO move at all.

As far as your other points, let’s be honest, folks, this stuff is politics. When has a GM said, “Yea, we’re totally in tank mode, and we want to shed all of this salary so that we’re not paying luxury tax at the end of the season”? Of course, Ernie and the organization is going to spin it. If you expected him to be honest and tell the truth of what was really going on, then maybe I can interest you in buying a bridge.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, Ted Leonis did

Sam Presti did
Danny Ainge did

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

They didn't use those words.

No franchise does.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Tanking, no

Rebuilding, yes. Stating that this is a new beginning, yes.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

But does a franchise really have to state that? You already know it’s a new beginning,

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

You make a clear signal to your fanbase about what you are doing and you lay out you plan.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay.

I don’t wish to argue with you. I just don’t think it’s that simple. I do think if you’re EG (and I’m not a Wiz fan—I’m a Kings fan just so we’re clear) is that it’s disrespectful to the players that you say you’re going to be rebuilding. It can lead to unknown problems down the road.

Now, in the off-season I think is the appropriate time to do that. Not while these players are going out there on the court for you. Just my opinion on this.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

how would there be no moves at all

I hadn’t seen the Mavericks listed in any other trade rumors.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Ted Leonsis? C’mon that’s out of bounds! Different sport. If we’re going to cite diff. sports, I would have plugged in Jimmy Johnson/Herschel Walker. In the NBA? It happens, but, like I said, not often. Ainge was on the verge of Isaiah-hood before the Allen/Garnett deals, and he was the buyer, not the seller. And Presti? Are you referring to the Allen deal? I’m inclined to give you that one, although this was a situation where Boston was desperate for Allen, But I’ll give you that one.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

But Leonsis is going to buy the wizards, right?

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Boston also gave up Delonte West and Wally Szczerbiak in that deal.

Seattle did not get a perfect trade. Mostly it was about getting the rights to Jeff Green.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

how is out of bounds?

how is breaking up a hockey team any different from breaking up a basketball team?

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Because this is about the NBA. Not hockey. Or football. Or water polo. I just think that we as fans wanted more in return than what was out there.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you're wrong

If Leonsis is the owner, one assumes that he would build the team the same way he built the capitals.

Secondly, Ainge was ACTIVELY selling the team as a “young team of the future,” prior to the trade for Allen. He had actively broken up a team that had made it the EC finals and PUBLICLY stated that his belief was that the team needed to be broken up as it couldn’t get any further than that.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the expectation for some is that Dallas and the other teams in the league were salivating for our players, our players that by the way managed to have the second worst record in the EC. Just wasn’t happening.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

it gives us 3.5 million

in a buyers market. How many other teams are hitting the 2010 bonanza? How many players are actually changing teams when all is said and done?

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

EXACTLY

on both counts. Once again, people are pinning our future on HOPE. Let’s HOPE we can get the #1 pick. Let’s HOPE a top tier free agent will come here. Lets HOPE Ernie will actually make a good decision. Sorry, I’m done with hope. I’d rather see results.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

That's just not realistic in this situation

Your alternative is to “hope” that the “Big 3” experiment, which has been friggin-awful for 2 seasons now, somehow turns it around.

It’s either that or start over. The chemistry here was bad, the total was less than the sum of its parts.

What’s your alternative?

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you hear voices?

Because I never said ANYTHING about keeping the “Big 3” together. I’ve been saying blow it up for weeks. What I said was they should have maximized their assets. Sorry, this was not maximizing. This was settling.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

“settling” for what was out there. We can’t decide that we don’t want to settle and keep caron and AJ. We don’t have that leverage. We have to take the best deal out there, even if its not ideal

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

but that's not

all that was out there. There were plenty of teams interested in Butler and Haywood. Truthfully, I think Ernie dealt with Dallas to keep from dealing with an Eastern team. Like we’ll have to worry about “competing” for the next 2-3 years. Cuban, on the other hand, dealt with Ernie because, just like the rest of the league, he knew he could get the better end of the deal.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

But you don't know that

and it seems the evidence would suggest otherwise as well.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

what evidence?

Evidence shows me that Ernie acts too fast on everything. Too fast on the draft pick deal, too fast on the Arenas signing, too fast on the Jamison signing, too fast on selling the 2nd rounder. He had another week to get a better deal, but he couldn’t wait. Ernie would be a horrible poker player. He’d go all in on his second card.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Its just too much speculation

How can you say he would have gotten a better deal if you have absolutely no idea what’s going on in the front office? I don’t think its possible to evaluate a deal based off of what else may or may not have been out there because, ultimately, you don’t know

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

There is no guarantee that there would've been a better deal this week.

But I am confident that good ole’ Mark Cuban would have waited around until Weds for this deal. He couldn’t walk away from this and wouldn’t have. My point being, waiting could not have hurt

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

Cuban got a LOT more out of this deal than we did. If he knew it was there, then waiting would’ve either caused him to stick it out, or up his ante.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, but that's not the case

If Cuban had made another trade and the Wizards were stuck with Butler and Stevenson’s contracts next year, the Wizards would be hemoraging cash right now and unable to make the roster much better next year.

And that would be a real scenario where waiting would have hurt.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

where were the other

Mavericks trade rumors? Who else had a starting SF and C for them?

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Then we could have went with POR deal

or settled for AJ for Z, or settled for a Ray Allen deal, or settled for a T-mac deal, or settled for a deal with the Knicks. Instead of just settling for this. The risk of waiting, and possibly losing this deal(very small in my opinion) was worth it. Bc all we did was dump salaries and we had many of those purely “salary dump” trades that EG didn’t want to settle for

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

you have built a false argument

by stating that one can never argue a decision if one doesn’t know what the future can hold.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You are just guessing

and you have no proof or knowledge of the talks to know what you are talking about. Too fast on the draft pick deal but at the time everyone thought it was great. Too fast on the Arenas deal but 2 other teams had already offered Arenas a max deal before the Wizards gave him LESS MONEY than other teams were offering. Too fast on the Jamison deal yet other teams (76ers) were preparing a big offer.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

1st of all

I didn’t think the draft pick deal was great. I hated it from the beginning, and I still do. I like Miller, but he won’t be here next year. Which means thats another wasted draft pick. Arenas? He was injured, and I remember PLENTY of people saying it was a bad deal. Why not sign him to a 1 year deal so he can prove he’s healthy? Or, better yet, sign and trade him. Same with Jamison. The only reason we kept AJ was because Gilbert “demanded it.” That’s just stupid. It was an awful deal then, and it’s an awful deal now.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I did think the draft pick deal was great and still do. Mike Miller is a darn good player and if this team wasn’t being blown up we’d have the inside track on re-signing him.

Signing Arenas to a 1 year deal? Not remotely realistic, as there was no way any guy in the world is passing up $120M to take $15M.

And no, Gilbert didn’t demand resigning Jamison, Pollin did.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

If by $3.5M you mean $15M, then you're exactly right.

And my guess is lots of players change hands, via free agency AND trades, all of which the Wizards will be players in for being one of the few teams with cap space.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Except he was wrong

Having a “hold” on Foye’s cap number doesn’t mean the Wizards have to use it and having a 1st round draft pick doesn’t mean the Wizards have to use it (see ’09 draft trade for an example).

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh god

so you want us to trade our pick again? Maybe we could trade it and AJ to Boston for Ray Allen.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

See once again jumping to extreme conclusions

How do you think Boston got Ray Allen in the 1st place? Cap space plus a high 1st round pick. There will be a lot of player movement in the offseason and the Wizards now have OPTIONS and FLEXIBILITY which they didn’t have before this trade.

Too busy complaining about what EG didn’t do to look at what he did do.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Seattle didn't get cap space in the Ray Allen deal.

They got a big contract in Wally that expired 2 seasons later, and a very small contract in Delonte West. It just turned out that Presti turned around and gave those 2 to cleveland for contracts THAT DID expire.

The main focus of that Boston-Seattle trade was the rights to Jeff Green.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

What I meant to focus on is that high draft picks + cap space = lots of options

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

And, you forget too

That was the last season in Seattle and they were basically clearing decks for the move to OKC. They were all about acquiring assets because they weren’t interested in putting the most winning product on the court.

What do you think? Did it work?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you'd have to say that it IS working

it’s not a finished product yet but the Thunder are already making noise and have lots of, yes, options and flexibility going forward.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Great point. They're hardly a finished product. But the steps taken have worked real well.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

In fact

The Thunder are one of the few teams, besides the Wizards, who have cap space to play with this offseason.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, no

Again you are wrong

Teams with plenty of cap room include:

Miami
Minnesota
NJ
NY
Houston
LAC
CHI
NYK
OKC

and pookey’s SAC

that is a whole bunch, most of whom are in a much better state to attract key FA’s

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Wouldn't go so far to say that Sac has significant cap room ledell.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

9-10 isnt so bad

considering your nice young core

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

and you're too busy

patting his back for THIS deal, while I’m looking at the BIG picture. None of his recent moves have proved beneficial to us. And, once again, you’re touting our “options” and “flexibility”. Sorry, I don’t see teams winning a lot of games with options and flexibility. They win with players. “Options and Flexibility” are no good if you can’t use them. Sure, it’s nice to have the room under the cap. But I’d rather have a foundation to build on as well.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

My hope is that the cap room is the start to forming that foundation. And also that Ernie is fired as soon as Ted buys the team.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that at the end of the day all of the success stories were the result of starting over and losing on a couple of trades in order to achieve the long-term goal.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

The pain is temporary and necessary

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

TEMPORARY?

Jesus, what team are you talking about? My pain has lasted for 20 + years. Maybe a little Advil after that Chicago series, but that’s it.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want to jump ship

go right ahead, but the new era of Wizards basketball started 36 hours ago. Deal with it.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you read what I wrote?

I have watched this team since the early 80’s. I’m not jumping ship. But that doesn’t mean I have to be satisfied with being mediocre. I’m tired of being a laughingstock around the league.

but the new era of Wizards basketball started 36 hours ago

Ha!! Are you Ernie Grunfeld in disguise? That sounds like another one of these publicity campaigns from the team. So, would that be the THIRD “new Wizards era” or the FOURTH “new Wizards era” this decade?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You aren't one of Tom Friends 6 are you?

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

NO!!!!

I’m not patting him on the back. I think this deal is bad BUT I realize what happens when you have to make a deal and have no leverage!

And once again, we’ve had “options” and “flexibility” for about 36 hours and you are already complaining that they haven’t been turned into players yet.

Good grief! Sam Presti’s entire strategy building the Thunder has been built on options and flexibility.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Jeff Green was acquired by taking back Wally Z's bad 2 year contract and Delonte West

Then those guys were traded for expiring contracts from Cleveland (I forget who). That same year, Presti also used a TPE acquired in the Rashard Lewis S&T in Orlando (I’m still shocked the Magic did that but whatever—and I like the Magic!) to acquire Kurt Thomas and 2 UNPROTECTED 1st round picks from Phoenix.

Sam Presti has pushed a lot of chips in the middle for assets and then has cashed them in slowly and surely. He also has, slowly and surely, built a young core that is ready to compete now and in the future. But for a couple years there, it was real ugly.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

YEP

but at least they had a vision. Can ANYONE tell what the hell we’re doing? But, the best part of your post is YOUNG CORE. That’s what I want to see around here. Enough signing players from other teams to fix our problems.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

There is only 3 ways you can remake your team CJ

Through the draft, trades and free agency.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

and we've tried

the last 2 to no avail. So how about trying the 1st FOR ONCE?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Slowly and surely only hurts if you're not making progress.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say

not contending for over 30 years is an example of “not making progress.” This trade is just more of the same. Allowing another team to get the better of us in a trade because we think we “have” to make a move.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say it's time to make a move. But that's me. Like you I never saw this team as a championship contender. Too many holes in Jamison/Arenas/Butler's games to be a real chamiponship core.

Then again, I’m not Abe Pollin either. (I’m not trying to kick on Abe in his death.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That's so true

As much as I was entertained by “The Big Three”, I never thought that they were REAL contenders. It wasn’t until this offseason that I actually drank THAT kool-aid…I only took a sip though LOL

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

even if the team trades Jamison and gets nothing in return, the Wizards could still have Arenas, Blatche, McGee, Young, and possibly Foye and still have room for a max free agent and either another player or high draft draft pick

Seems like a nice foundation to me.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know the numbers

but we have a roster to fill. I don’t think we will have max FA money this offseason

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually if you move Jamison you would.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

We will only have like 5 or 6 guys on our roster

That means we will have 6 guys to sign. Not that any guys, worth max $$$ will want to play in DC anyway

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No reason to sign guys if you have a young roster.

Hold the cap space until you can find something that works for you.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Ohh I agree

I really hope that we don’t settle on signing some bum guys and jump right back into mediocrity. Save the money and minutes for some young talent

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your sig swagger.

But, the best way to avoid mediocrity is to get impact guys through the draft. That takes patience. I think Wiz fans have that given the trials of tribulations the fanbase has gone through. (I know pain trust me. The Wiz fans have oodles and oodles of it. Then again, most of yall have seen the Skins win a SB too. I don’t feel bad for DC fans on the whole.)

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what I am talking about

I don’t want to sign just a bunch of guys. I want to see this next bunch of Wizards get drafted and grow up as Wizards. I am scared to death though, that we will go after some FA this summer that won’t amount t anything

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah well young players aren't a guarantee of anything either.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I undestand that

and are you arguing against your own point now? Either way, I would rather watch a home grown team fail, to be honest.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

No. Just trying to bring out every point in the debate as there are many.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Gil $17M
Free Agent $10M
1st round pick (Monroe?)$4M
Mid Level FA $5M
Foye $5M
Young $3M
Blatche $3M
McGee $2.5M
Ross $1M
FA $2M
2nd Round Pick
$53M Salary Cap

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

so

We only gonna field a team with 11 players? That’s 2 under the league MINIMUM…

Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......

by Rook6980 on Feb 15, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol thanks Rook

That just further shows what I was saying. We couldn’t afford a Supersar if one wanted o play here. I didn’t even notice he was short 2 guys when he brought this argument to the table.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That team wins nothing

Best case scenario (really a fantasy) that our big splash free agent is Bosh. That still puts us at about 7th seed and going nowhere.

by MR on Feb 15, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

who is this magical player who will come

to lowly washington for 10 million dollars.

You think Bosh is escaping Toronto for 10 million to come to Washington. Nix.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 16, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

While I'm not a Wiz fan...

…I do find it shocking that they would consider moving forward with Gil.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He'd be the only reason people like me would even think of ..

… buying season tickets again to watch this team play. If we are going to be a bad team, might as well have Gilbert on it to entertain us; jacking up shots, hitting game winners, blogging. Otherwise, the team will be dullsville….

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention

he is whats left of the old team that I loved(along with AJ, for now). That may be a bad reason for keeping him around but I am scared I might not be able to cheer for a completely different roster. I am 18 and these are the only Wizards I know.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

yep.. AJ will be gone...

..and Gilbert will be all we have left. The Wizards should think of it purely in dollars and sents terms: Fans will pay money to see Gil— because they either 1) love him or 2) love seeing a car wreck in progress. Either way, the team gets money from ticket sales. If they somehow dump Gil (which I don’t think they can), attendance and season ticket sales will drop like a rock. People like “returnofswagger” root for players they know; what team in recent memory has completely blown-up and erased a team’s identity, in so short period of time? There will be absolutely no personal “connection” to the Wizards.

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Every word of that is perfectly said

And those things are entirely true. Those are the reasons why I think Gilbert will be a Wizard next season(not to mention he is virtually unmovable). As long as the organization realizes them.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

UGh

so more rebuilding through free agency is your cure? Haven’t you realized yet that that doesn’t work for us?

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

if they trade Jamison

they still wouldn’t have enough room for a max FA.

because they would have to fill 7 roster spot and still have Gil’s contract.

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly what I am thinking

but “pookeyguru” is telling me otherwise.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no clue what EG & the Wiz would do in the off-season.

I don’t personally think that signing a big name FA is the answer, and the one’s that are out there won’t look to sign with Wash with Gil around. A lot of the big name players are fiercely protective of their personal brands and with Gil as part of the franchise that will more likely serve as a deterrent than as an attractive piece to play with.

At the end of the day, I see a buyout with Gil so each side can move on with their life. Gil is going to have to give back A LOT of money though.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Gil will be back

Mark my words. You can’t buy out an $80M contract. No one in this economy is going to give away $40M+

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

There is ways to make it work.

Gil doesn’t have a ton of leverage here either.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

He’s got a guaranteed $80M and I’m sure he wants to play basketball. I’d say he’s got all the leverage assuming he wants to apologize.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Gil can have his career or have his money.

He’s not likely to get both. And, I would argue Gil has plenty of money. If he wants to salvage anything at this point, he might as well settle for an amenable buyout and move on with his life.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Why?

I’m sure he’ll show up to play. Are the Wizards going to lock him out? His punishment has been taken, way way too far.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

While I realize you're probably a Gil fan

The fact is that his actions are a good more serious than that. Gil is now a felon whatever that means.

The reality is that Gil and the Wiz need to divorce even if his fans in DC don’t want to admit it. Whether that divorce happens is another matter.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not about leverage

If Gil can make $40 million in the next four years as a free agent, then he would jump at a $40 million buyout because it gives him the freedom to go wherever he wants.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Name a team that you would think would sign him to that kind of contract Palace?

I can’t think of one.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Pookey

I picked $40 mil out of thin air. It doesn’t matter what another team will pay him. it will still benefit the Wizards to buy him out. If Gil is worth less than $10 mil/year then we are losing more than $10/mil a year on his contract, and we should be willing to buy him out for more than $40 mil. Whatever, his real value is, the Wizards will benefit from buying him out because of the threat of voiding his contract – therefore making him take a slight haircut.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless he gets a ton of jailtime

I don’t know how the Wiz can threaten him with voiding his contract.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would the Wizards

pay someone $40M to walk away? Will you be excited about a 25% ticket increase to pay for that?

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Wiz charged the fans for paying Gil to go away....

…that franchise doesn’t deserve to exist. I think they are smarter than that. It’s the cost of doing business after making a very bad mistake in signing Gil to that contract.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You can if

You can’t buy out an $80M contract.

you have “flexibility.” Bringing back Arenas would be a mistake. He is not a franchise player. There are a ton of PG’s in the league that are better than him at this point.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Wiz were lucky enough to get the first pick in the draft

Gil would lose his time & minutes. Gil did this to himself too. He’s not going to get any real offers from any teams (although the Knicks may look at him) that will entice the Wiz to keep him around long term.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh no.

Those two things are not the same. Flexibility with the cap and throwing $40+ M down the drain are not the same thing.

Whether Gil is a franchise player (and I think he was and may well again be) is not the point here.

The question is whether he’ll be on the roster. I don’t think they can move him or buy him out.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It's sunk cost

Buying him out for $40 mil is no better or worse than paying him $80 mil if he’s only worth $40 mil.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

In theory yes...

but on your Balance Sheet/P&L, you’re still down $40M.

That’s some major, major cash in this economy.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If I was Leonsis or the Pollin family

I’d offer Gil his full contract for the next 2 seasons, and nothing after that. That’s the buyout, You get paid in full for each season, and nothing more beyond that. That way you don’t have that money on the cap each year for the next 4 years.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Arenas

was on his way to being a franchise player. But he didn’t get better. He’s a great scorer, but that’s it. He’s not a leader, doesn’t play defense, and can’t stay healthy. Sorry, that’s not "franchise player: material.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

It can be done in multiple ways.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

"Can" and "will" are 2 different things

I don’t see anyone losing $40M to get rid of one player who made a mistake.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You keep saying it's losing $40 mil

That’s simply not the case. It’s a sunk cost that’s going to be lost either way.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

you're drinking the Gil-Aid

If he was still atop 10 player then no, you don’t pay him to leave. But the fact that he’s not a top 10 player, probably not even a top 10 point guard, anymore, AND he has a terrible injury history, AND he is a knucklehead, means paying him to leave makes perfect sense.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Find an owner willing to pay

a player 50-60 million to walk. Who is going to do that in this economy. If they can’t void his contract he will be playing Wizards basketball next year.

by ccrun1800 on Feb 15, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

If the player's contract

Is $80 million and they are only worth $25 million, then every owner in the league would pay $50 million for that player to walk because it saves them $5 million.

by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not guaranteeing

that they’ll buy him out. What I’m saying is that is just as probable as them keeping him. Right now, neither side wants him to come back. And if Ted thinks he’s hurting the team more than helping it, he will pay him to walk.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually...

If Leonsis takes over, I’d bet even money Arenas is in a Wiz uni next year. Leonsis already said “I’m a healer, not a breaker-up”.

People will come to their senses, Arenas will apologize. Leonsis isn’t a dummy. He knows that EVERY Wizards player, including Arenas, took a hit this season. Arenas is a far better player than he showed this year.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 16, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Not a top 10 PG?

Frankly I’m not the one with the skewed take. Arenas was getting back into shape (clearly better than at the start of the season) and was averaging 26.1 ppg and 7.8 assists over his last 10 games.

I’ll take that any day.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 16, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep, good numbers

But he’s not a 2 way player, and he has a bum knee. Now, I realize this is my opinion, but right now there’s a bunch of PG’s I’d rather have than him. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, and probably Tyreke Evans. Then you factor in the guys who are past their prime but still better PG’s like Nash, Billups, Kidd, maybe even Baron Davis. Even Jameer Miller was an All-Star on a Finals team, and Andre Miller is a much better set up man and defender than Gilbert. But that’s just splitting hairs.

 The point is, Arenas isn’t a top ten player, though he gets paid like one. And he’s really not a franchise player. I think he was on his way to becoming one, but injuries and being a knucklehead derailed that.

Hell, I’d rather have Rodney Stuckey than Gil right now. At least you’ll get an effort on both ends of the court.

by CJHutch on Feb 16, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t get this post. By trading CB, we’re shedding the $11M we would have owed him next season.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

funny

I remember plenty of people telling me I was acting like “the sky was falling” after the Foye/Miller trade. I kept saying they could’ve waited then too, AND that that trade wasn’t good for us. Don’t hear that now.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea but, again, waiting an extra day didn’t guarantee that a better deal would come forth. Plus, it’s easy to have revisionist’s history now. At the time, I think most people, and the vets themselves, wanted experience to complement the finally healthy big three. It blew up in our faces, just like everything else with this team over the last 30 years. But, the players that we received weren’t duds. Everyone loves Miller and Foye has shown signs.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

But that's hindsight

The Wizards were looking to add veterans to be final pieces to the puzzle, in which case adding Foye/Miller was a great trade. Plenty of people in the NBA thought that was a brilliant move.

That it didn’t work out doesn’t mean that it was a bad idea.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

that's fine

Plenty of people thought Michael Olowakandi was a good pick also. I didn’t. And I didn’t think that trade was good either. Nor did I think this team was a serious contender, before or after the trade. And I know I’m not the only one who realized any of this.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes I would

because, as it turns out, I was right.

But, seriously, I’m not touting myself. I’m not the only person who thought this way, just like I’m not the only one now.

by CJHutch on Feb 15, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll repeat the line I always repeat when I hear "hindsight" arguments

HT: Matt at Blogabull, who also uses it constantly.

“GMs are paid to have foresight.”

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Feb 15, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt...

But you have to understand that expecting foresight to be 100% accurate is unrealistic.

In judging, you look at whether the idea was good at the time, and I think a lot of folks around the NBA thought so. Had Grunfeld known he’d be blowing up the team 6 months later he obviously wouldn’t have made the deal.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 16, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

So

you wanna give him a pass for not having “foresight?” OK, fine. Just tell me which decision you’re giving him a pass on. Gil’s contract? Jamison’s contract? Keeping Stevenson over Mason? Trading the #5 pick? Selling the 2nd rounder? Trading your 2 most valuable assets for nothing?

That’s a lot of passes. I think everyone realizes a GM is not gonna make the perfect decision everytime. But you’d like him to make it most of the time. It just seems to me like a lot of people are satisfied with this trade because it’s the Wizards, and they have an awful history of trades, so it’s better than some of the others they’ve done in the past. Me? I’d rather hold them up to the rest of the league. I mean, it IS possible for both teams to come out ahead in a trade.

by CJHutch on Feb 16, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

FYI

I’ve personally given EG a pass for all of the above with each one getting slightly less of a pass. That is until this trade. This is the moment I break with Grunfeld. This is a moment that will set us back years in my opinion. What was destined to be a long rebuild just started three squares behind the starting line.

by MR on Feb 16, 2010 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Great post

Except, at the risk of also sounding “too positive”, the chances of a change of scenery re-energizing Howard are about the same as the chances of Butler being re-energized.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Possibly an Important Question

Does anybody know the rules/regs regarding us packaging any of the players that we’ve acquired in other trades prior to Thursday? Does the three-month period apply, or can we trade them again this week? I remember Atlanta did that when they had Rasheed for 45 minutes before shipping him to Detroit, but I don’t know all of the parameters and whatnot.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:27 PM EST reply actions  

They can be traded again

I believe the rule is they can only be traded by themselves, they can’t be included as part of a package. The Rasheed trade worked because he was the only Hawk included in the deal.

Bullets Forever: A blog dedicated to the Washington Wizards with analysis, commentary, and more YouTube videos than your eyes can handle.

by Jake Whitacre on Feb 15, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, Jake

I remember hearing the rule that traded players can only be re-traded by themselves when we acquired Miller and Foye. That pretty much rules out any future blockbusters regarding what we just received from Dallas.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It would be unlikely the Wiz would package any player like Gooden or Jamison together anyway.

If anything, the Wiz would ship single guys out like Gooden/Jamison separately.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Just saying....

Let me preface this by saying that I don’t find this likely, but:

What if Howard comes in here and kicks a**? As much as we’re all, “we got fleeced” in this deal, there is a possibility that Josh could be decent for us. We also received a high-motor guy in Gooden, and what I thought was at one point a defensive stalwart in Ross. Is there any chance that these guys would be retained, albeit at a much lower rate, after the season? We’ve watched Gooden burn us, and I remember Quinton Ross as someone that was talked about the summer when we re-upped Stevenson.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:44 PM EST reply actions  

I think it's unlikely that the Wiz will ignore the cap space Howard represents.

If the Wiz can get something of value for (reduction in overall salary to get them under the tax line/draft picks) for Gooden they will do that. No reason not to.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Ross, Singleton or Howard have much more value than what they were already traded for (ie cap dump).

The thing with Gooden is that he’s a big and teams out there need those. The Wiz very well could get something for him that’s worth something to move him.

The Wiz are going to lose games with or without Gooden. Might as well get something for Gooden if you can. No reason not to at this point.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m with that. Like I said if we’re going to suck, let’s maximize our sucktitude. Nine times out of 10, Gooden is gone after this season anyway, so if he has value, let’s take advantage of it and get a player or a pick. I wonder what Gooden could bring back though. I can’t see him netting us a first rounder.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Wizards will be New Jersey nets next season

by Unxpekted on Feb 15, 2010 7:51 PM EST reply actions  

not if Gilbert is still here...

… even if they suck, I’d buy season tickets just to watch Gil score. Heck, im sure he’d get a couple of buzzer beating game winners now and then. That would be worth it, and would put butts in the seats of the VZ Center. Arenas would be the bridge to our old team. If they somehow get rid of Arenas, I’m outta here.

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

So

You wanted to hold onto our old team that was racked with injuries, had chemistry problems and never won more than 45 games? The team is REBUILDING.

by lj15 on Feb 15, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this trade may ultimately be a wash. In fact, the cap room that we’ve received could prove to be MORE valuable to us than what Dallas got. We know what we’ve gotten of the deal. Does Dallas? They got Butler, who they want to play the 2. I dunno about that one. Then, they got Haywood, who they’ll have to try to resign (I think that’ll happen though). And by the way, do any of you guys really think that they’re now poised to beat Phil and the Black Mamba?

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

Unless it works really well

I don’t think so.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, they can beat the Lakers.

Caron, having been Kobe’s teammate, knows how to play against Kobe. He’ll go at Kobe hard, forcing him to expend energy on defense. Haywood will bother Gasol and Bynum; they won’t get the clear looks theyve been getting against Gooden and Dampier. Dirk will have more energy to score, since Caron will be taking up some of the scoring slack.

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on, CVC. NO ONE knows how to play against Kobe. Caron can’t guard average 2s, now you think he can contain the best or second best player in the world? What I will say is that the trade improves Dallas’ chances, but I don’t know if it’s quite enough. Hell, they may have trouble with Denver or Utah before even thinking about LA

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The one area where I think it will help Dallas is being able to defend Bynum inside.

It will make it easier for the Mavs to match up with Gasol too. That’s the reason I think they were so keen on Haywood. Don’t blame them either.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Friday's Game v. the Nuggets

I’m actually dreading to go to that game. Not only will Denver whip our butts. But the team we put on the floor (assuming AJ is moved out by Thursday) will be a team of complete strangers. Its sorta like strangers coming to live in your house.. for the rest of the year.

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 8:10 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I’ll be there watching strangely too. The rest of the season is going to be one big audition for these guys. But, McGee, Blatche and NY should get more minutes, right?

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

McGee excites me but...

Young and Blatche seem to be busts at this point. Although I suppose blatche isn’t really a bust because he went in (i think) the second round. But Mcgee has been blocking shots like nobody’s business. Young has been explosive at times, but he’s really streaky

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Young is a bust but Blatche is not...

Blatche is a 24 year old 6’11’’ player. At 24 years old, everyone thought Haywood was a soft, bust. Big guys take longer to develop, and Blatche’s ceiling is high.

Besides, 6’11’’ and can play 4 and 5 at $3M per. He’s a bargain even as an underachiever. Time for him to get 30 minutes/game.

by JonathanJoseph on Feb 15, 2010 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

good point

Blatche can certainly develop futher. So can Young, really, but I suppose that might be a little too hopeful. He’ll probably always be a one dimensional player.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Blatche is a keeper.. he just needs more minutes

Young needs to wipe that goofy grin off of his face. But no reason he can’t become a “vinnie johnson” (circa 1980s Pistons) who can put up points in bunches off the bench. Teams need and want players like that. They just need to get the ball to young on a consistent basis when he gets in the game.

by CVC on Feb 15, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, the one I worry about is actually McGee. The best compliment I’ve come up with in two years is, “he really can jump.” But I don’t see the NBA IQ. Not that NY has it all the way either, but I see signs. Blatche too. I hope Javale pans out, but I see more potential in the other two

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

All have potential

Mcgee has been a beast blocking shots this season, but, as you said, needs to play smarter.

by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we can all agree...

That we wanted more out of the trade. I also think most of us can agree that Ernie should get poop-canned once Ted takes over. I just don’t know that we could have gotten better. And I think anyone thinking that waiting a few more days or holding out is speculation. I’m excited about the cap room, and the fact that we are slowly getting out of this albatross of a situation. It was cap-shedding (which we can thank Michael Jordan for! UGGGH!) that allowed us to sign Gil, which led to the period of semi-success that we had for a couple of years.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:39 PM EST reply actions  

This just in!!

I just saw this on ESPN, Drew Gooden broken fibula! And Howard sprained wrist!

by Unxpekted on Feb 15, 2010 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

Jamison to Heat?

Are they offering anything decent? Isn’t Beasley out of play now?

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 8:54 PM EST reply actions  

I know….as soon as I hit send I realized what that meant for us and AJ. So in the end, maybe AJ will go to Cleveland….D*mn that’s gonna be awkward…so what’s your take on Hickson? Is he really a prospect or another guy that shows signs?

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If we acquired Hickson

it would probably necessitate flipping Blatche

Its always Roger Mason (Jr.) time!

by Sean Fagan on Feb 15, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

And that is a very good question.

Would we be willing to trade Blatche for Hickson? Because it could kind of turn into that.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a unilateral move.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but I could see Cle saying, "If you want Hickson, we want Blatche,"

and I could also see EG saying " Are you crazy? We are talking about Andray friekin Blatch."

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, but isn’t this one case where we’re holding a slight bit of leverage. I know we’re somewhat desperate to trade Jamison, but is Cleveland more desperate to get him than we are to get rid of him? Are they going to have to try at all costs to do the King’s bidding?

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

If I were Wash and I felt I could pull a deal with Cle for Jamison I'd ignore Hickson altogether.

I’d ask for both of Cle’s picks this year and leave it at that.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 15, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

In my opinion

Cle’s picks are not worth much. 1st rd pick will probably be somewhere between 27-30.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I would settle for the pick is I was the GM

but would much rather Hickson.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno….in this instance I almost feel like we HAVE to get something of value other than cap space if only because we ONLY got cap relief in the Dal trade…but now maybe I’m being selfish and unrealistic.

If it comes to 11:45 Wednesday night and it’s AJ for Z and cash or nothing, I guess we’d have to take it because this is our best chance to get out of that contract (if that’s the true goal here), but I would hope that we could end up with at least ONE prospect after all of this

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t mean to say “try” as if we haven’t done it before, but maybe it could work with a different 4.

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it worth it? Are we sick of everybody? Is the blowup just of the big contracts and to see if the youngins have any talent, or should we just let the youngins go too if the right deal comes about? I mean, I like the potential in Blatche, but it’s so few and far between….

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Why can’t we try Blatche at the 5? I don’t know why but I just don’t feel right about McGee yet. Blatche at the 5 and Hickson at the 4 seems tolerable

by Edward TheThird on Feb 15, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I guess I took that a little too literally.

Dear Mr. Grunfeld,
I apologize, on behalf of all Wizards fans, for whatever it is we did to you.

by returnofswagger on Feb 15, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

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