What's going to happen with Gilbert?
This might be an ignorant question, but I haven't heard any trade rumors involving GA, and I was wondering what's going to happen with him. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there's no interest in him because you'd have to be a complete idiot to pick that huge contract up; but we all know that there is no shortage of idiots among nba gm's. Anyway, as far as I can see there are three possible outcomes regarding Gilbert at the end of this season.
1) We trade him...As I mentioned before I haven't heard any trade rumors with Arenas involved, but I suppose there's still hope.
2) We terminate his contract...I initially thought that this was likely, considering the wording of the CBA (or whatever document it was): that he can be dropped for any moral turpitude, but I've heard a lot of sports commentators saying this won't happen. This would obviously be the best option because we'd be able to lose the contract without recieving another overly paid player (i.e. Tracy McGrady) in return.
3) He returns to the team...I don't think I even need to say how awful this would be, I shudder thinking about it. If this happened the wizards would be pretty much doomed until 2014-2015.
I just want to know the chances of each of these outcomes occuring in relation to eachother and details of how each would happen.
This represents the view of the user who wrote the FanPost, and not the entire Bullets Forever community. We're a place of many opinions, not just one.
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He won't get traded, nobody wants him
If they can terminate him, thats what they will do.
They need to rebuild. There is no room for Gilbert Arenas on a rebuilding team.
I think a buyout is most likely
Taking down his banner, etc, sent a pretty strong signal that he won’t be back. Of course new ownership/management may have different ideas. The question is how much we’d have to pay him in a buyout.
If a team were willing to pay him $10 million a year (random guess) for the next four years, then Gil would need $40 million in a buyout to break even. Even if he’s willing to take a haircut, we’re still looking at having $7-8 million in dead space each year for the next four years.
That’s a lot of dead money. And it’s why I think we’re going to try to terminate his contract. Maybe we succeed and maybe we don’t, but I think we have to try..
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 8:30 PM EST reply actions
I hope we can terminate it
I’m sure if we try the player’s union will fight it as much as they can, but it seems clearly legal based on the specific wording in the Uniform Player Contract:
“The Team may terminate this Contract upon written notice to the Player if the Player shall: (i) at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined here to mean not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not such acts would constitute a crime),”
Seems clear cut to me. I don’t see how you can argue that a felony gun charge isn’t “moral turpitude”
by zl on Feb 14, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Based on the language I would agree
But there’s no precedent, and courts of arbitration can do what they want to, so it isn’t set in stone.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 14, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I agree we have to try
If he gets jail time – will be easier. hence his apology in the Washington Post – got to repair that image before sentencing.
Agree
There is no more important thing the Wiz can do but try and get rid of Gilbert. Even if he’s healthy and level-headed next season, he’ll still be a team-killer. Gil is a sensitive guy and he won’t react well to the booing and verbal abuse he’ll receive from the media and the fans.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
We'll renew this discussion in March when Gil gets sentenced
But the issue is that you can’t be punished twice for the same crime, and Gil’s already been suspended by the league.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
the same act or conduct by a player may result in both a termination of the player’s Uniform Player Contract by his Team and the suspension of the player by the NBA
I think its irresponsible of you to continue spreading this “double jeopardy” idea when we both know its 100% not true. The wizards would have to prove the “egregious nature of the act or conduct is so lacking in justification as to warrant such double penalty” but I dont think any of us can prove that can’t be done.
VOID!!!
It's not 100% not true
It’s not 100% true either – it’s just a major, major complication, which is all that’s it’s been described as. Irresponsible would be pretending it’s not an issue.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
my only point was people take your word as gospel. By writing “you can’t be punished twice for the same crime” without some type of disclaimer it leads to many others spreading that same misinformation.
VOID!!!
Fine
A better way to put this: no player has ever been punished twice for the same crime.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I dont mean to hijack zl’s thread but at the same time I want your opinion on something and think it falls close enough to not necessitate its own thread…
IMO the Wizards silence on the whole Gilbert to void or not to void saga tells the whole story. Past Leonsis’s (purposely) vague comments from the Dukes/Lavar show I haven’t heard a thing. If they did NOT plan on voiding lets take a look at the positives of making that be known immediately…
1) It reaches out to a player who thinks he has been burned by the club
2) It gives them 2-3 extra months to rebuild those bridges
3) It lets other teams who think we are going to cut him free know they need to make their offers now
Despite these facts there has been no word (either way) on whether they plan to void the contract. Now lets take a look at the effects of announcing immediately they plan to void his contract after sentencing
1) Gives Gilbert’s legal team months of preparation time to find loopholes in (IMO) an otherwise open/shut case
Can you tell me any negatives to announcing they do not plan on moving forward with actions to void the contract?? Unless you can think something up that I am missing why have they not immediately announced he will be welcomed back??
VOID!!!
They're probably waiting until March 26
When he officially gets his sentence.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I don't think we're doomed if we have to keep him
We’ll be rebuilding for at least another three years, after which he’ll be a massive expirer. He doesn’t help us, but considering we probably won’t have anyone on the roster making over 5 million dollars a year for a while, it’s not that horrible.
It seems impossible to keep him considering the way we've treated the stituation
If we do have to keep Gilbert, it would be rather awkward after taking down his banner outside the arena and stripping him of his title as the franchise player. Its like saying, “Well, we did everything we could to get rid of you, but you’re so overpaid that no one wants you and we can’t legally terminate your contract sooooo, i guess you’re stuck with us.” This won’t happen. If we can’t trade or terminate, we will definitely buy him out.
But with a new ownership group-
it’s a good opportunity for a fresh start. I can see him being a wizard next season – but possibly trade bait again.
And Leonsis, in responding to a question about Arenas
said he’s a builder upper , not one to tear down….
Bullets Forever - where "Dagger ! " happens......
Just a side note
Chris Bosh is looking real in the all star game. A lot of people have been saying that having him in Washington won’t be really exciting, but I don’t see why not. He’s a great player.
Keep Gilbert....unless!
I’d like to go on record stating that I don’t hate Gilbert and would like to see him return
unless we find someone who is better than him on the court!! Seems hating Gil is
politcally correct these days, but I don’t buy it for a second. In a rebuilding effort, will
everyone be under 25, and will everyone be able to score 25?
He's just not a very good player
Yes, Gilbert can put up 25 a night, but he’s an incredibly inefficient player. He’s a career 42% shooter, so the only reason we’d need him is if we have absolutely no one who can put up 20 or 25 a night, which seems unlikely considering the free agent class.
by zl on Feb 15, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Um, what?
Gil’s plenty efficient. Well, at least pre-injury and post-mid December Gil is. I’m on a phone so I can’t link you to relevant stats at the moment, but look at his true shooting percentages. They’re outstanding for a guard who uses as many possessions as he does. Field goal percentage is such misleading stat, particularly for a
guy like Gil who a) shot a lot of threes (difficult shots, but worth more, so fg% there isn’t appropriate) and drew a ton of fouls (which gets you points without counting as made shot attempts).
To say Gil is not that good is unbelievably ridiculous. On the court, he’s an incredible individual player. Before he got hurt, he was underrated, not overrated. It wasn’t a stretch to say he was in Wade and kobe’s league offensively. The issues with Gil have always been a) defense and b) off-court maturity, for lack of a better term.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
As you said, pre-injury
Let’s face the facts, Gilbert is not going to have another phenomenal season like he did in 05-06, and at this point the amount of money we’re paying him is absurd. If you’ve watched the games this year, you know he’s not shooting like he used to and he’ll never return to all-star form.
by zl on Feb 15, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
We can't face the facts...
because there are no facts yet to back up that he won’t be as efficient as he was in previous years. He’ll have a new team around him when/if he comes back and that may make a bigger difference on how he plays and performs. You can’t ever count out the “me against the world” chip on someone’s shoulder.
Yes, but
It seems pretty high risk. We don’t know that he’ll rebound, and we don’t know that he’ll (although in my opinion it seems overwhelmingly likely he’ll never return to form). I just don’t understand why you would explicitly want to keep him for reasons other than nostalgia.
by zl on Feb 15, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Gil
He had a pretty good first half of the season. He was making strides forward. I hope he can keep his competition up in this down time. I hope we do get him back.
by forthepeople on Feb 16, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
He plays next year
its the only thing that makes sense.
- They wont be able to terminate the deal.
- They still have to put butts in seats in the Phone Booth.
- A buyout is absolutely worst thing they can do and makes no business sense what so ever.
If they buyout his contract for say 80% of its value they will literally be paying him not to play. Now certain owners may be able to afford to do this but ours most definitely can not.
The best option is to let him play and earn his money and respect that he has lost. Gilbert is going to be one hungry player next year.
A buyout does make sense
If Gil’s market value is $X million/year, then he wouldn’t lose any money by taking a buyout of $20-X million per year. And the Wizards would be able to replace him with an equal player for $X million/year with the money they save over the next 4 years.
Now add in the fact that Gil has to be concerned with the possibility that the Wiz will void his contract, and he should be willing to take a haircut. Essentially, the Wiz can leverage the threat of a buyout to save more money than Gil’s production is worth, allowing them to improve as a team by buying him out. Gil would lose a little money, but gain stability, knowing that he is not going to lose 100% of the difference between his market worth and the $20 mil/year he is scheduled to make.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Of course it makes sense for Gil but it makes absolutely no sense for the Wizards. Gil at his best is one of the top 5 PG’s in the league. So you state:
And the Wizards would be able to replace him with an equal player for $X million/year with the money they save over the next 4 years.
Gil averaged 22 points 5 assist and 2 steals during his abbreviated 09-10 season. What equal player can they sign putting up those numbers with the 20-30% savings they would receive from a negotiated buy out. There isn’t one.
knowing that he is not going to lose 100% of the difference between his market worth and the $20 mil/year he is scheduled to make.
Of course the Wizards would like to void Gil’s contract but if Indiana couldn’t void Artest’s contract for causing a mass riot in the palace what chance do you believe the wizards have in getting Gil’s contract voided.
Now the one thing I haven’t touched on yet and this has a huge bearing with Gil and his albatross contract. In the owners version of the new CBA the lengths and dollar value of contracts would decrease markedly. Which doesn’t seem all that bad for Gil but the owners also want to make it retro active to all contracts signed before the CBA as well. If the owners get there way then the Wizards will look stupid having paid out on an inflated contract that would no longer be valid.
That's a good point about the CBA
However, you missed my earlier point. You state that the Wiz will only save 20-30%, but you pulled those numbers from thin air. As you mentioned, Gil still has value. If a team was willing to pay Gil $8 mil/year in the open market, then the Wiz should be able to buy him out for $12 mil/year minus whatever they are able to leverage through the threat of voiding his contract. Saying that the Wiz will only save 20% on his contract is the same as saying that in the open market, a team will only pay Gil $4 mil/year.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 15, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Gil's not as good as you think he is
As you said, GA put up 22 and 5 as a point guard this season (not to mention a mediocre fg%). 5 assists as a pg! Thats unacceptable. He’s a selfish player and doesn’t make his team better. In fact, I think we can easily get a better player for a significantly lower price
by zl on Feb 15, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Gil is averaging 22.6 points and 7.2 assists per game this season
Good enough for 10th in the league in points per game and 9th in the league in assists per game. LeBron and Wade were the only two guys also in the top 15 in both categories. But don’t let facts get in your way.
my bad
Just assumed ccrun had the stats right. I just don’t think gilbert has the right mindset. He has said that he tries to average a 20 and 10 because he wants to be considered the best pg in the league, and cp3 puts up those numbers and is considered the best. He even checks the stat line during games to see if he should get a few more assists. Thats not how you win games! If he were that good, we wouldn’t even be in this situation. Even before the gun thing, our season seemed dead.
by zl on Feb 15, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sensing some goalpost moving
It’s almost as if we’re drawing battle lines and never wavering from extremes. We’ve now gone from “Gil isn’t good because he’s inefficient, look career 42% shooter!” to “He doesn’t get enough assists” to “He goes too far out of his way to get assists!”
Truth be told, the Gilbert package is really complex, so neither of us are right. He’s not the same player he was in 2006, but he’s also not the same player he was in November and December of this year. Right before he got suspended, his game was improving. It took him a little longer than expected to shake off the two-year rust, but it was gone. In the last few games, the Wizards completely tanked whenever Arenas was out of the game. He mattered. If some of the other players went more out of their way to fit in around him (cough Caron cough), this would have worked better. Pinning this all on Arenas is the classic “blame the superstar for every single team problem” analysis that’s way too shallow to approach the truth. Truth be told, Arenas caused some problems, but he didn’t cause all of them.
As far as Arenas’ disposition – I can tell you, based on all interactions I’ve had with him this season, that he’s not inherently selfish. He doesn’t go out there only with personal goals on the line (unlike, say, Amare Stoudemire, who openly campaigns to play elsewhere). Where he struggles is in his execution. The whole “I need to get assists” thing was prompted not because he wanted better stats, but rather because he legitimately thought there was some acute correlation between the number of assists he’d accumulate and the number of wins the Wizards had. His frustration with Caron was, again, because he felt Caron was stifling the offense by not catching-and-shooting, not necessarily only because it cost him assists. To Gilbert, the two were the same. (This is actually a pretty common mindset for the young superstar – read “Jordan Rules” to get a better idea).
The knocks on Gilbert remain as follows: he doesn’t play defense (fair) and he can’t lead. To the second point, the real issue is that Arenas is too all over the place to emulate. I think that’s a legitimate complaint, as is his judgment in the wake of the gun thing (not sure quite yet exactly what the best response is). But I also think the effect on the court is much less pronounced that people think. You can build a culture whereby Gilbert’s silliness can be a part of a winning atmosphere. The Wizards came pretty close to getting there in 2007, and that was with a less-than-ideal cast. It can be done
Can it be done here? I’m not sure, that’s the million dollar question.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Feb 15, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
without CB and AJ here, GA will be forced to grow up and "lead" next season
As I posted way up top, the Wiz need to think of what to do with GA in pure business terms: People either 1) love GA, or 2) love to see a train wreck in progress; either way, the Wiz sell tickets. If they get rid of him, watch ticket sales/attendance plummet. Fans have a personal connection to their home teams players. You can’t yank that away abruptly and expect them to pay good money to root for a team of complete and total strangers. I ask my question again: What NBA team in recent memory has totally erased their identity so fast? I couldn’t think of any. Change happens, but not this fast, without negative consequences for the fan base. Mark my words; if they dump Arenas next season (and don’t get a marquee FA- which everyone here believes to be case), you’ll hear crickets in the VZ Center during the Wizards home games.
Basically what I'm trying to say is
that Gilbert is trying to force it too much. From watching him this season, he doesn’t play to win; its as if he’s not really sure of how to help his team.
When the shots aren’t falling (as has happened many times this season), he doesn’t know how to adjust and still pull out a win because he’s used to being better than he is. He tries to get back in a rhythm by just taking more and more shots, which isn’t always a bad idea, but it can become frustrating.
I don’t know how many times this season we’ve given Gilbert the ball with the game on the line and he just hasn’t come through; either losing the ball on a drive to the rim, taking an absurdly difficult shot, or missing crucial free throws. The stats can only tell you so much (see Wilt Chamberlain), you have to watch games to really see a player’s impact (obviously i’m not insinuating that you haven’t).
Apart from Gilbert’s on the court effectiveness, there’s a whole other issue here that might supersede other arguments. Can Gilbert really be accepted in Washington after all that’s happened this season? He’s alienated most fans with his immaturity, enforcing the (usually incorrect) perception that professional athletes need to “grow up”. Even though I personally had no problem with him “shooting” his teammates, saying that he did nothing wrong was just one more bad decision among many. I think that Wizards fans deserve a fresh start, and keeping Gilbert would almost be a slap in the face to those who have had to sit and watch mediocrity (or worse) for 30 years.
I think this is a somewhat unfair assumption
He’s alienated most fans with his immaturity, enforcing the (usually incorrect) perception that professional athletes need to "grow up".
Judging from what I’m reading among the members of this community — the hardcore-ist of hardcore fans (along with frequenters of other sites like RealGM, Wizards Extreme, etc) — opinion is way more divided that this. Many actually feel it’d be a slap in the face to not let him play.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
And what of the casual fans?
They are the ones most likely to want Arenas gone wouldn’t you think?
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 16, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
I would think so
Though you could swing that the other way and say they want Arenas around because they just want to see a “star” play here.
I don’t envy the Wizards here. It’s a tough call to pin down the fanbase’s feelings on Gilbert.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
If we do void Arenas’s contract that doesn’t necessarily mean a star won’t play here. In fact, it would probably increase our chances of picking up a major free agent because we’ll have so much cap room next year. Yes, a big name free agent might not want to come here when there’s essentially no team to speak of, but with that much money we can add a star and a good supporting cast.
by zl on Feb 16, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
I’m talking about the fans’ perspective. Why you changing the conversation?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think he's saying that
we have as good a chance of filling seats without Arenas (by picking up a free agent) as we do with him.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 16, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Hate to say this
Since the Wizards don’t has the testicles to terminate a players contract who has repeatably been a nuisance….maybe the best thing that could of happened is if Critterton’s and Gil’s gun’s were both loaded and fired???? Before Gil got hurt, the team was rising, after he got hurt, he came back more selfish and less ready to play. LET THE BUM GO!!!!!!
Gotta Pay the Penalty...
The fact that the guns were not fired, and that no one got hurt, is the point, in my opinion.
Not only that, but David Stern, showing wisdom, after talking loudly, made the sus-
pensions shorter than I thought they would be. It’s true that the law and NBA regulations
were broken. But it’s not on the level of, say, Plaxico, Vick, Sprewell, or Artest, yet Gil
is being vilified as if it is! He’s got to pay the penalty! After that——let him play basket-
ball. As a die-hard Wizards fan, I hope it’s with this team.
I guess we'll have to wait and see
If Gil is sentenced to jail time (I have no idea the chances of this happening), then I would say we have absolutely no choice but to void his contract.
by zl on Feb 16, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I still don't think it's that simple
We’ll cross this bridge when we come to it, because I just don’t know how it all plays in.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Do the Wizards have to wait for the suspension to be over
before voiding his contract? If not, I think they are making a mistake by waiting (assuming they want to void it) because with each passing day the outrage diminishes.
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Feb 16, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
but as Mike has said, they’re probably waiting for him to be sentenced before making a final decision.
by zl on Feb 16, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
there are 3 possibilities for the wizards thought process…
1) The wizards have decided to keep Gilbert
2) The wizards want to keep Gilbert but are afraid of a lengthy jail sentence. 6 months would mean 12 games this year but would be out just as training camp is opening for next season. You have to question what type of shape he would be in but he would be there. Anything longer would mean missing games to open next year (and presumably paying him to miss them). At that point the Front Office (IMO) would have no choice but to void.
3) The wizards plan to void and are just waiting for a jail sentence to ice their cake. I question whether the “additional evidence” that is gilbert’s jail time could be added to their case if the process starts before it is sentenced.
As I listed above their are plenty of advantageous reasons for the Wizards to open their arms and welcome back Gil now if thats what they plan to do. Unless someone can show me a negative I am crossing 1 off the list and moving to 2+3 as the only possibilities.
VOID!!!
You forgot possibility four
Which is, they don’t know what they’re doing and are crossing that bridge when they come to it because there’s so much other important stuff to take care of (ownership transfer, trade deadline).
That’s what I’m sure is happening now.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
If there is a 4th option then I think extra emphasis needs to be added to “they don’t know what they are doing”. Sure there are some variables that could change (new ownership, longer jail term) but the front office has enough “probables” (Leonsis is probably going to become full owner, Arenas will probably be sentenced 1-6 months) where not already having a plan in place would be inexcusable.
option 5 will also be added to the list… they plan on waiting til the day of sentencing, flipping a coin 10x then doing the opposite.
VOID!!!
I'm sure they've thought about it
But they’ve probably put it on the backburner until March 26. Understandable.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
ive run quite a few fantasy basketball/football teams… trade negotiations arent that time consuming.
VOID!!!
I'm pretty sure this is different than your fantasy teams
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I think they’re just waiting to see what his sentence is and basing their ultimate decision on that. Seems reasonable to me.
by zl on Feb 16, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Waiting to announce their ultimate decision… reasonable. Waiting to discuss what their ultimate decision might be… inexcusable.
if they don’t have a firm plan in place for 0-1 month, 1-6 months, 6-12 months, 12+ months they aren’t fit to manage the chipotle in front of the VC nevermind the team that plays inside of it.
Deciding in early April that “no matter what we want Gil back” does them no good if Gil decides in Early March that “they havent reached out to me, i am done”.
VOID!!!
I’m not saying they haven’t discussed it…we have no idea whether or not they have. If they haven’t, I agree with you that we are in bad shape. All I’m saying is that it makes perfect sense to wait for his sentencing before making a final decision.
by zl on Feb 16, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Legally, the void “threat” carries the same weight no matter when they make up their minds. (I put threat in quotes because I’m not sure it’s all that significant). They’re right to wait until they see what their team looks like after the deadline.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
Zero to Hero and
back to Zero. GA has singlehandedly wrecked the franchise. Everyone including players, coaches, former players and coaches, front office and ownership have tried at least to do the right thing for the team thinking GA would be the saviour. Likewise , everyone has kissed his a$$ along the way and given him everything he wanted. I really hope they void his contract. The Arenas era needs to be over and soon.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
by GeoFly on Feb 17, 2010 8:20 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
We (or I) Love You Gilbert.
Only to go BACK to Hero again. Dude is an insane gymrat with a chip on his shoulder. I want him on my team more than most other players in this league.
I think I’m probably the most biased, irrational Gilbert fan. You can bet your ass I hope he’s on our team next year, despite how crumby the org handled the situation.
My swag was phenomenal.
I'd like to agree
But I can’t. I think GA is a sensitive guy who will let the booing and press get to him in a negative way. I’m willing to bet he’d like to get out of town too and start fresh somewhere. It’s too bad cuz I agree about him being a talented athlete and all. If the team can get out of his contract though, I believe they will. After all, they would have more cap space than anyone for the next couple years to rebuild not only through the draft but by getting decent young FA’s.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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